An ex Muslim from Fiji

Ali Sina

Ali Sina is the author of Understanding Muhammad and Muslims.

67 Responses

  1. why? says:

    IMMACULATE BIRTH:

    3. ANother important point to consider is, if sexual intercourse makes birth of a person sinful, wasn’t Mary born through sinful sexual procreation. If Mary is sinful in flesh, how can that which is born from sinful flesh NOT be sinful as well? Isn’t the flesh of jeebus, made from what Mary’s sinful body is made of?

    Hence Jeebus, whose flesh was developed from Sinful Mary, who was born through sinful sexual intercourse, is also SINFUL.

    It is clear that the entire concept is completely man made crap and people who imagine seeing jeebus in NDE etc. are fools.

  2. why? says:

    ILLICIT BIRTH OF JEEBUS:

    This is the worst belief, most illogical and most blasphemous belief.

    It says God was born through an engaged unmarried woman, by other than husband Joseph ie through some “(un)holy ghost”.

    Clearly, some basic points are missing.

    1. Why did God’s miracle stop with making Mary pregnant? She went through ordinary 9-month pregnancy. Jeebus was born as usual like any human birth when considering the 9 month gestation period and birth through Mary’s genetilia.

    So the question is why did God NOT avoid 9 month gestation and therefore avoid being born with piss, puss and blood in his mouth?

    This question is very valid. This shows that Mary did NOT get pregnant miraculously, but through a human agency by having illicit sexual affairs before marriage. Thus the son jeebus is born through sin and in sin.

    2. Why did God decide to be born to unmarried, engaged girl?

    Christians thought it would make her virgin and that birth through sexual union is sinful. So they avoided sex by making her unmarried.

    But they forgot the natural question about adultery. Why would God make his birth appear as though it is through adultery? After all she is engaged and unmarried. Why?

    More important is why no miracle in 9 month gestation period?

    So this story is all made up.

    There is no unholy ghost or holy ghost. Only unholy man making impure girl pregnant, giving birth to an impure son jeebus.

    So two points. Please answer

    (1) 9 months in womb and born with piss, puss and blood through vagina, an excretory and reproductive organ…God coming through this….great christian concept indeed..

    (2). God born as a Mamzer/aka bastard from an engaged unmarried young girl. another great christian concept…blasphemy is the name of jeebus..

  3. why? says:

    Partial LIST of CHRISTIAN BARBARITY UNTIL NOW:

    1. NECROPHILIA (LOVE FOR DEAD BODIES, BONES, CUT BODY PARTS, CHURCHES BUILT IN HUMAN BONES AND SKULLS)

    2. SADOMASOHISM (LOVE FOR SELF-TORTURE AND LOVE FOR DEVIANT SEXUAL BEHAVIOR)

    3. CANNIBALISM (LITERALLY EATING BODY PARTS OF MARTYRS – FROM CHRIST HIMSELF)

    4. HUMAN SACRIFICE

    5. Now we will see bible’s love for VIOLENT SEX ie. RAPE, PEDOPHILIA AND SEXUAL SLAVERY

    Pedophilia in bible, Murder of male babies and sexual slavery of female children

    Bamidbar – Numbers – Chapter 31

    17. So now kill every male child, and every woman who can lie intimately with a man you shall kill.

    18.And all the young girls who have no experience of intimate relations with a man, you may keep alive for yourselves.

    Genocide, Rape and Pillage:

    Devarim – Deuteronomy – Chapter 20

    10. When you approach a city to wage war against it, you shall propose peace to it.

    11. And it will be, if it responds to you with peace, and it opens up to you, then it will be, [that] all the people found therein shall become tributary to you, and they shall serve you.

    12. But if it does not make peace with you, and it wages war against you, you shall besiege it,

    13. and the Lord, your God, will deliver it into your hands, and you shall strike all its males with the edge of the sword.

    14.However, the women, the children, and the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoils you shall take for yourself, and you shall eat the spoils of your enemies, which the Lord, your God, has given you.

  4. why? says:

    You thought only Shiite islamists love self-flagellation. Christian Europeans used to love this self-torture tool. CHRISTIANITY IS BASED ON SADOMASOCHISM WHILE ISLAM IS BASED ON TORTURINNG OTHERS. BOTH FAKE RELIGIONS.

    christian Flagellants
    Pierre Grivolas, Flagelants au XIVe siècle (1909) La Fondation Calvet, Avignon, France.
    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics_06/flagelants(DOT)jpg

    In the eleventh century Churchmen started extolling self flagellation as a penance. Soon afterwards confessors were imposing sentences of whipping. Priests initially did the whipping themselves, the penitents often being entirely naked. A good flogging provided opportunities for sadists and masochists alike – the masochists having the bonus of imitating their god. Like modern Sadomasochists, participants would sometimes swap roles, taking it in turns to enjoy the suffering and bloodshed most.

    Many writings of saints and mystics are full of such scarcely disguised sexual symbolism4. Many pursued severe asceticism, which produced vivid sexual hallucinations. Notable among them were Saints Jerome, and Francis of Assisi as well as Anthony the Great

    Jerome used to dream about being whipped by angels, but he felt the need to supplement these phantom floggings with real floggings. He is shown on the right in the process of flogging himself, but in reality he might have had helpers In Rome he had been surrounded by a circle of well-born women, including rich widows and daughters. The closeness of these relationships invited suspicion and brought hostility against him from the Roman clergy (possibly through jealousy). Jerome was forced to leave his position at Rome after an inquiry by the clergy into allegations that he had an improper relationship with a widow called Paula. But this was not all. He had led another woman to adopt extreme ascetic practices. She had died of her privations four months after starting to follow his instructions. Much of the Roman populace was outraged at Jerome for causing the premature death of a lively young woman. He left Rome for good in August 385, followed a little later by the widow Paula and a virgin Eustochium, to whom he continued his role of “spiritual adviser”.

    The Roman Catholic Church hold that “mortification of the flesh”, literally, “putting the flesh to death”, as a worthy spiritual discipline. The justification comes partly from Saint Paul, who speaks of joy in suffering in Colossians: “I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake”.

    He also wrote: “I chastise my body and bring it into subjection…” (I Cor. 9:27); and seems to have imagined himself a sort of supplementary messiah destined to suffer like Jesus “In my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, that is the Church.” (Col 1:24).

    Detail from A Procession of Flagellants (Procesión de flagelantes) by Francisco de Goya, painted between 1812 and 1819. In the foreground is a procession of Roman Catholic men wearing white pointed hats and whipping their bleeding backs in penitence. Other devotees, wearing black hoods, blow trumpets to publicise the spectacle.
    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics_05/goya_pentants(DOT)jpg

  5. why? says:

    SADOMASOCHISM:

    The entire narrative of crucifixion is about human sacrifice and SADOMASOCHISM. Physical suffering and pain is elevated to something divine and as the ONLY way to get out of suffering.

    badnewsaboutchristianit(DOT)com/gfj_sadomasochism(DOT)htm

    One of the most notable things about Christianity for many non-Christians is the intense preoccupation with death and suffering. The torture of Jesus and the sorrow of Mary are favourite themes, often depicted in graphic detail.

    Christianity is so obsessed that one even crucifies himself. See some of the pictures below.

    Voluntary Crucifixion in the Philippines – A popular Easter Passtime
    Note that the victim wants to suffer, but not too much. The nails are not as big or rough as first century nails, and are carefully and unrealistically placed not to do too much permanent damage (Crucifixion victims are known to have been nailed through the wrist)

    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics02/easter_01(DOT)jpg

    “The Holy Breasts of Saint Agatha” by Orazio Riminaldi, 1625
    Agatha’s pudding-like holy breasts look particularly edible in this rendering. (SADOMASOCHISTIC CANNIBALISM OF BREASTS)

    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics_03/agatha_07(DOT)jpg
    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics_06/agatha(DOT)jpg

    SELF-FLAGELLATION IS A VIRTUE:

    Did you think shiites came up with this concept. rethink again. It has CATHOLIC ORIGIN.

    Imitating the suffering of Christ – flagellation – an early stage
    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics02/flagellant(DOT)jpg

    Masochism & “Mortification of the flesh”

    Early Christians deprived themselves of the necessities of life: eating such poor diets that they suffered physical illnesses, living in squalid and unhygienic conditions in remote places. They flagellated themselves and allowed their wounds to become infected. They chained themselves to fixed objects. They lived for years on top of tall pillars. They walled themselves up in tiny, dark, infested holes. Sometimes they wore nothing at all except perhaps a girdle of thorns. Such practices passed into traditional monastic life, which established standardised privations known as “the discipline”. Monks, nuns and others were frequently scourged, either routinely or for minor offences. Saint. Kevin spent his days either standing naked in one of the frigid lakes of Ireland, or hurling himself naked into a patch of nettles. Either way, like many other saints, he seemed to have preferred life without his clothes on.

    Saint Simeon Stylites or Symeon the Stylite (c. 390 – 459) was a Christian ascetic saint. Simon won his sainthood by finding ingenious ways to torment himself. He would starve himself until unconscious. He wore a girdle which bit into his flesh so that it drew blood and his waist became a suppurating mass writhing with maggots. He then spent a summer living in a hole, with only his head sticking up above the ground. At other times he would stand upright for as long as his body would allow. Later, he lived exposed to the elements on top of a column. The column was later extended to 15 or 18 metres where he lived for 39 years, sometimes standing on one leg when the other was too ulcerous to bear any weight. Monks using ladders supplied food and drink to him. He prostrated himself, sometimes over 1000 times a day. He would not see a physician or converse with any woman, including his own mother. For such acts he was elevated to sainthood. He was emulated by Simeon Stylites the Younger (They are both shown on the right). The two Simeons were then emulated by Simeon Stylites III. This last Simeon seems not to have been as discerning in his choice of pillar for he was killed by a lightning strike. Perhaps God felt that he had seen enough bad-taste self-inflicted suffering for the time being.

  6. why? says:

    CANNIBALISM IN CHRISTIANITY:

    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/gfk_necrophilia(DOT)htm

    One of the more disturbing aspects of the cult of saints is the dismemberment of bodies for the members to be preserved or sometimes eaten by the devout. When Bishop Hugh of Lincoln chewed on a bone of Mary Magdelene preserved at Fecamp he was challenged by the guardians of the precious relic, and defended his action by saying that if he could eat Christ’s body [in the Catholic mass] then he could certainly chew on the Magdalen’s arm.

    The perfectly preserved remains of St Francis Xavier in Goa
    (His missing toes were bitten off by enthusiastic Christian pilgrims)
    badnewsaboutchristianity(DOT)com/pics_03/390x268xst-francis-xavier_02.jpg.pagespeed.ic.kkVolL4oEW(DOT)jpg

  7. why? says:

    OBSESSIVE NECROPHILIA of CHURCH:

    A picture is worth a thousand words. Christian churches are mostly attached to cemeteries and many of them display dead bodies mostly bones, and call them miracle of christianity. Christianity is built on sadomasichism and glorifying torture and worship of dead bodies to the extent that some churches in Europe are built with human bones. Some of pictures show how demonic christianity is in reality, which is nothing but worship of dead bodies and ghosts.

    badnewsaboutchristianity(dot)com/gfk_necrophilia(dot)htm

  8. why? says:

    Ron Says:
    =======================================
    When ‘why’ and his other fanatic hindu friends are cornered with the truth they immediately resort to taqqiya and say that it is false Purana for some weird reason (then why is they counted among the 18 puranas?)
    ========================================

    If you do NOT believe me, see the classification here.

    ======================================
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puranas

    The Padma Purana, Uttara Khanda (236.18-21),[48] itself a Vaishnava Purana, classifies the Puranas in accordance with the three gunas or qualities; truth, passion, and indifference.

    Sattva (“truth”) Vishnu Purana, Bhagavata Purana, Naradeya Purana, Garuda Purana, Padma Purana, Varaha Purana

    Rajas (“passion”) Brahmanda Purana, Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Markandeya Purana, Bhavishya Purana, Vamana Purana, Brahma Purana

    Tamas (“indifference”) Matsya Purana, Kurma purana, Linga Purana, Shiva Purana, Skanda Purana, Agni Purana

    [48] Wilson, H. H. (1840). The Vishnu Purana: A system of Hindu mythology and tradition. Oriental Translation Fund. p. 12.
    =====================================

    There is NO taqqia here like muslims. If I wanted to do that, I would have denied many stories quoted by you. I go and check the primary sources and tell you as it is in Hindu scriptures. This classification is well known among Hindu orthodox schools. Such verses from Puranas were qouted by several Hindu teachers 1000s of years back and their authenticity is established. This information is also found in other Puranas.

    Garuda Purana

    III.1.53: “Skanda, Padma, Vamana, Varaha, Agni, and Bhavisya are Rajasa Puranas. Each of these contains sections on the Rajas and Tamasa material.
    54: They are Rajasa, Rajas being prominent in them. Those seeking for release should not listen to these sections. Only the Sattvika part among these Puranas should be listened to-that provides merit equal to that of listening to Garuda.
    55: Brahma, Brahmanda, Brahmavairarta, Linga, Markendeya, and Aditya are the tamasa Puranas; Parts of these Puranas are Sattvika and rajasa.
    56: They should not be listened to by the seekers of truth, for they are Tamasa, the best of sages, there are Sattvika portions in them, listening to which accords merit equal to the merit listening to Garuda.

    Kurma Purana 2.43.49 & Matsya Purana 53.68-69 also contain this classification. It is NOT made up. This is as per Hindu scriptures itself.

    Ron Says:
    =======================================
    Hindu god Shiva’s semen swallowed by Agni (another Hindu god)—Blow job performed by Hindu god?
    Also Homosexuality between gods.
    ========================================

    First point this is from a Tamasa Purana called Shiva Purana. Refer my argument above.

    This story is repeated in many Puranas and Valmiki Ramayana. There is NO gay sex or “blow job” here. This is entirely imagination of foolish people like yourselves.

    For example, Valmiki Ramayana and Agni Purana uses the word “Tejas”, which is translated as “semen” by many idiots, including Indian idiots.

    The Sanskrit word usually used for “semen” is vīrya (veerya) or Shukra. Veerya actually means something much more than mere “semen”, but sum total of vital life producing energy of a man and is the final product when one advances in Yoga. Thus when one is said to be strong and powerful in superhuman sense because of yogic exercises, Sanskrit texts uses this word to mention a person has estra-ordinary veerya (superhuman strength)

    Now in Yogic terms, the vital energy in man through practice of celibacy (in word, thought and deed) and strong control of mind, it is converted to Ojas and then into Tejas (“bright light” literally) and then finally into “Veerya” (Not semen, but into extra-ordinary strength or power with which one can do extra-ordinary things)

    Now when it is said Agni or fire god swallowed Shiva’s Tejas in Valmiki Ramayana, it means the “fire or bright light” of Shiva. Agni find this Tejas is very hot even for fire god and then deposits in Ganga waters. When it is said in Shiva Purana that Agni carried Shiva’s “veerya”, it is interpreted in yogic terms of Ojas, Tejas etc. and NOT sperm.

    If you do NOT believe me, readthe following links.

    =================================
    https://yachnayoga.wordpress.com/yoga-asans/ojas-tejas-and-prana/

    OJAS, TEJAS AND PRANA

    Ojas-The Sap of Life, Vigor, Vitality, Radiant Health and Luster

    What is Ojas?

    According to Ayurveda, Ojas is the subtle essence that is responsible for life, radiant health, strong immunity, vigor, longevity and overall well being of an individual.

    What is Tejas?

    Tejas is responsible for inner radiance, glow or aura, luster in one’s eyes, clarity, fearlessness, courage, intelligence, and understanding and comprehension at the cellular level.
    =================================

    So when Puranas use these words like Tejas and Veerya, it means superhuman capacities, especially with regard to sages and Hindu Gods. It is this super-human capacity which is used to create offsprings without any need for sexual procreation. By transferring this veerya or Tejas (bright light), the Vedic Devatas or Gods, procreate by simple vision, touch etc. Again see evidence from Mahabharatha which I already quoted.

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs15038.htm

    Book 15 Chapter 38

    21 santi deva nikāyāś ca saṃkalpāñ janayanti ye
    vācā dṛṣṭyā tathā sparśāt saṃgharṣeṇeti pañcadhā

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m15/m15030.htm

    The deities are possessed of (Yoga) puissance. They are able to penetrate human bodies. 1 There are deities. They beget (offspring) by thought alone. By word, by sight, by touch, and by sexual union, also, they beget children. These are the five methods.

    47:1 The puissance here referred to is that of Anima, Laghima, etc. i.e., the capacity of becoming minute and subtile, etc. These are super human powers.

    This is enough evidence to show that no gay sex or blow job is involved. Only anti-Hindu idiotic websites write such nonsense, who do NOT understand.

  9. Ron says:

    Dear why, Dr Nishant and other hindus,

    You guys are basically good guys. In fact I believe you are much better in moral character than hindu gods like Vishnu (alias Krishna), Shiva, Brahma, Indra and other hindu goods) who have indulged in blow jobs, debauchery, prostitution, gang rape, bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, homosexuality, murder, kidnap, ransom, fornication, patricide, matricide, incest, theft, serial killings. This was done by Hindu gods sometimes against other gods in the pantheon, against their own kin, against other innocents, humans, against animals etc.

    There is lot of documentary (hindu scriptural) evidence for these criminal activities.

    I believe you guys unknowingly worshipped these criminal hindu gods because you were born in this religion.
    I though Hinduism was mainly idol worship. I discovered these criminal atrocities by hindu gods only when debating on forums. I am sure you and many hindus have not discovered these criminal activities by hindu gods just as many muslims have not discovered criminal activities by Mohamed.

    Muslims defend Mohamed with taqqiya and you guys are also defending these criminal hindu gods with taqqiya and spin. Face the truth and follow the only sinless one in the whole world -Jesus.

    The Puranas including Skanda Purana, Shiva Purana and Brahma Purana are among the 18 puranas considered as holy hindu scriptures according to these websites.

    So your reason to dismiss gang rape by hindu gods is baseless as all 18 puranas are considered holy hindu scriptures and so this is grand taqqiya by you (why)

    So it is time to dump these hindu gods and look at Jesus who has never sinned.

    Proof is below

    These Puranas are considered as Puranas (Hindu holy scriptures0 according to this hindu website
    http://hinduismfacts.org/hindu-scriptures-and-holy-books/

    Also they are holy hindu scriptures according to Wikipedia
    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hinduism/The_Puranas

    And also they are holy hindu scripture according to Encyclopedia britanica
    http://www.britannica.com/topic/Purana

    When ‘why’ and his other fanatic hindu friends are cornered with the truth they immediately resort to taqqiya and say that it is false Purana for some weird reason (then why is they counted among the 18 puranas?)

    Please don’t defend sexual, criminal and heinous activities by hindu gods.

    Just try Jesus and say the prayer below at least for 7 days. You have nothing to lose.
    God will answer prayers when there is sincere search.

    “O God who created me, come to me in dreams and visions and show me who is the true God.
    Dear Jesus if you are true, then you show me the true path and come to me in dreams and visions and confirm me with unexpected confirmations and I will follow you.
    If you do not reveal your truth to me within 7 days then I will follow the religion I was born in.”

    You have nothing to lose saying the above prayer. You will only find the truth.

    Christ is the way, the truth and life.

  10. Ron says:

    Hindu god Shiva’s semen swallowed by Agni (another Hindu god)—Blow job performed by Hindu god?
    Also Homosexuality between gods.

    Now there is so much of sex involved with this Hindu gods who appear to be sex maniacs.
    Intelligence and logic tells us that we should dump all these Hindu gods. Some people use taqqiya to disconnect/deflect about this absurdity.

    Hindu god Shiva’s semen swallowed by Agni (another Hindu god)

    In the Shiva Purana and the Ramayana, the gods fear the outcome of Shiva and Parvati’s “unending embrace,” and interrupt their coitus. Shiva then appears before the gods and declares “now let him step forward who will accept the semen I discharge”. At the prompting of the gods, Agni captures Shiva’s semen in his hands and swallows it.[29] In these stories, Parvati and Shiva condemn Agni’s actions, calling them “wicked” or “improper.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology

    Well, there is lots of proof on the internet like here in Wikipedia which again says that this god Ayyappa was born out of the sexual union of Vishnu and Shiva. (this is corroborated by even Sri Sri Ravi Shankar)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyappan

    Vishnu found Shiva and explained the whole affair to him. Shiva asked if he too could see Vishnu in this female form. When Vishnu appeared thus, Shiva was overcome with passion, and united with her. The two gods thus became “Harihara Murthi”, that is a composite form of Shiva and Vishnu as one god.

    From this union, Lord Sree Dharma Sastha was born. He combined in himself the powers of Vishnu and Shiva. Lord Ayyappan is an incarnation of Lord Sree Dharma Sastha and Lord Ayyappan is a visible embodiment of their essential identity. Sri Ayyappa belongs to Pandya Royal Community. He was the head of a clan. It is believed Sri Ayyappa merged to Sri Dharma Sastha. Lord Vishnu gifted the new-born deity with a little bejeweled bell necklace, so this god is called Manikantha. He is also Known as Dharma Shastha.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology

    This again tells the story and shows more filth.

    The more you dig into Hindu gods the more filth and heinous crimes and hedonistic activities committed by them are found.

    Samba, the son of Krishna, is also a patron of eunuchs, transgender people and homoeroticism. Samba dresses in women’s clothes to mock and trick people, and so that he can more easily enter the company of women and seduce them.[26] In the Mausala Purana, Samba, dressed as woman, is cursed after being questioned about “her” supposed pregnancy. As a result of the curse, Samba, although remaining male, gives birth to an iron pestle and mortar.[27]
    Same-sex sexual interactions

    Agni, god fire. Agni’s role in accepting sacrifices is paralleled by his accepting semen from other gods.

    Homosexual or bisexual activity also occurs between gods, although such interactions are most usually considered purely ritualistic, or have purposes other than sexual pleasure. Agni, the god of fire, wealth and creative energy, has same-sex sexual encounters that involve accepting semen from other gods. Although married to the goddess Svaha, Agni is also shown as being part of a same-sex couple with Soma, the god of the moon. Agni takes a receptive role in this relationship, accepting semen from Soma with his mouth, paralleling Agni’s role in accepting sacrifices from Earth to Heaven. Orthodox Hinduism emphasizes that these are “mithuna”, ritual sexual encounters, and Agni and his mouth represent the feminine role.[28][29]

    Please abandon these hindu gods as they have history of criminal activity and follow Jesus – He is sinless. He did miracles. He did not kill anyone. He gave life to people. He can give yo everlasting life

    Just try and say the prayer below at least for 7 days. You have nothing to lose.
    God will answer prayers when there is sincere search.

    “O God who created me, come to me in dreams and visions and show me who is the true God. Dear Jesus if you are true, then you show me the true path and come to me in dreams and visions and confirm me with unexpected confirmations and I will follow you. If you do not come to me within 7 days then I will follow the religion I was born in.”

    Christ is the way, the truth and life

  11. why 1? says:

    Ron says:
    ====================================================
    If Why wants multiple proof for the all the heinous crimes listed out by Hindu gods (Vishnu alias Krishna, Brahma, Shiva, Rama, Indra etc) as in previous posts will be provided but remember that this will make Mohamed look like a saint in relative comparison which is not my intentions.
    ===================================================

    Apparently you do not read the posts made by me showing how wrong you are, even if the Hindu scriptures contain such verses. I will try again. Every point you ave raised is answered already through this.

    Did you read the classification of Puranas as

    1. good (Satvika) containing correct events of Gods, which leads to moksha or salvation.

    2. Rajasa (mixed, both good and evil) contains stories which are correct to some extent, mixed with some falsehood., which leads to suffering forever.

    3. Tamas or darkness. These Puranas contain only false stories that attribute evil to Hindu Gods.

    The evidence was already quoted from Padma Purana.

    So all your so called evidence is refuted by this explanation. Let see some examples.

    Ron Says
    ==============================
    It seems the Gang rape of Ahalya by Hindu supreme gods Brahma, Visnu, and Siva was done so that vagina and penis of the hindu gods could be worshipped.

    Bhavisya Purana 3:4:17:67-78.
    ==============================

    Bhavishya is classified as Rajasa Purana. See my previous post for proof. So stories here are mixed with falsehood. They are rejected as false as per Hindu scriptures itself.

    I have already quoted Bhagavatha Purana (4:1:15-33) to show you no such thing took place with Anasuya (NOT Ahalya). So you are already proved to be wrong here.

    I will NOT attempt to prove you wrong again, if you do NOT read MY POSTS.

    Ron Says
    ==============================
    This poor lady named Vrinda/Tulsi was a devotee of Vishnu, it must have been so disheartening for her to be raped by the man whom she worshipped so devotedly every day.

    Skanda Purana II.iv.21-10-24, Shiva Purana, Rudra Samhita 2, Yudha Khanda 5, Ch 41 verses 1-35, Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Prakriti Khanda 21.18-31, Shiva Purana, Rudra Samhita section 5, Ch 41.3-5
    ==============================

    Again, please refer the classification.

    Skanda Purana, Shiva Purana are classified as Tamasa (darkness or evil) Puranas which leads one to hell. Brahma Vaivarta is classified as Rajasa (mixed) Purana.

    Hence these stories about Hindu Gods are rejected as falsehood.

    Ron Says
    ==============================
    King Jallandhar was ruler of Indian territory. He was true replica of Emperor Ashoka. Puran testifies that in his kingdom there was peace everywhere.
    ===============================

    Who on Earth told you this Jalandhar is a historical human being who ruled “Indian territory”? Just copy pasting whatever nonsense you find in anti-Hindu website.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalandhara

    Jalandhara (Sanskrit: जलन्धर) or Jallandhar or Calantaran is a figure in Hindu mythology who was born out of the union of the fire from Shiva’s third eye and the ocean.

    LET ME REITERATE IN CAPITALS FOR YOU RON. ANY STORY APPEARING FROM HINDU PURANAS CASSIFIED AS

    (A.) RAJASA (MIXED WITH TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD) PURANA
    OR
    (B.)TAMASA (ALWAYS FALSEHOOD) PURANA

    IS DEEMED AS FALSEHOOD. READ MY POST ON CLASSIFICATION OF PURANAS BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN AND AGAIN SAME STORIES.

    Ron Says
    ==============================
    http://www.facebook.com/SriSriRaviShankar/posts/10151832425787536
    He has 13000 likes for this statement by Hindus

    Homosexuality has never been considered a crime in Hindu culture. In fact, Lord Ayyappa was born of Hari-Hara (Vishnu & Shiva). It is not a crime in any Smriti.
    ===============================

    Whether some so called Hindu guru says it or NOT, it is irrelevant. Ravi Shankar is neo-guru among Hindus. He is NOT considered as anything among orthodox Hindu schools. He has zero knowledge in Hindu scriptures. He is just some “yoga guru” who made it and has homosexuals among his customers.

    Two points are to be clarified here. One is homosexuality is a sin and second, there is NO mention of “Ayyappa” in any Hindu scripture. I have already said that “Ayyaappa” is a Tamil word and NOT Sanskrit word. This is modern creation by some Hindu groups. So falsehood and LIES are NOT evidence for anything.

    Homosexuality is considered a sin in Hinduism.

    Manu smriti 11.174. A twice-born man who commits an unnatural offence with a male, or has intercourse with a female in a cart drawn by oxen, in water, or in the day-time, shall bathe, dressed in his clothes.

    8.369. A damsel who pollutes (another) damsel must be fined two hundred (panas), pay the double of her (nuptial) fee, and receive ten (lashes with a) rod.

    8.370. But a woman who pollutes a damsel shall instantly have (her head) shaved or two fingers cut off, and be made to ride (through the town) on a donkey.

    11.67. Giving pain to a Brahmana (by a blow), smelling at things which ought not to be smelt at, or at spirituous liquor, cheating, and an unnatural offence with a man, are declared to cause the loss of caste (Gatibhramsa)

  12. Ron says:

    Please find the facebook post of Indian guru, godman and hinduscholar who confirms that Vishnu and Shiva had a homosexual encounter and third god Ayyappa was formed

    https://www.facebook.com/SriSriRaviShankar/posts/10151832425787536
    He has 13000 likes for this statement by Hindus

    Homosexuality has never been considered a crime in Hindu culture. In fact, Lord Ayyappa was born of Hari-Hara (Vishnu & Shiva). It is not a crime in any Smriti. Everyone has male & female elements. According to their dominance, tendencies show up & may change. Nobody should face discrimination because of their sexual preferences. To be branded a criminal for this is absurd.

    this is further confirmed by
    http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/homosexuality-and-hinduism/

  13. Ron says:

    It seems the Gang rape of Ahalya by Hindu supreme gods Brahma, Visnu, and Siva was done so that vagina and penis of the hindu gods could be worshipped.

    Lingam and Yoni in Sanskrit means the male and female sexual organs respectively. Hindus are allowed to worship anything – including sexual organs. It is not unknown for them to name their children as Shiva Lingam (God Shiva’s sexual organ) or Rama Lingam (God Rama’s sexual organ), (in some places in Karnataka, the gods demand both male and females to pray naked together).

    “One day the sage Atri was performing tapas with his wife Anasuya. Brahma, Visnu, and Siva came and offered him a boon, but Atri remained silent, meditating. Then the three gods went to Anasuya. Siva had his linga in his hand, Visnu was full of erotic feeling, and Brahma was beside himself with desire, saying to Anasuya, ‘Make love with me or I will die.’ When she heard this coarse speech, Anasuya made no reply, for, although she feared the anger of the gods, she was true to her husband. But they were overcome with delusion, and they raped her by force. Then she became angry and she cursed Siva to be worshipped as a linga, Brahma to be worshipped in the form of a head, and Visnu to be worshipped as feet, in order to ridicule them all, and she cursed them all to be reborn as her sons. Because of this, Siva was reborn as Durvasas.” –

    Bhavisya Purana 3:4:17:67-78.

  14. Ron says:

    Proof that Hindu Supreme god Vishnu (alias Krishna) raped Vrinda aka Tulsi

    All the evidence points out that this Hindu god Vishnu did a criminal act (rape) of a devotee which is arguably worse than Mohamed.

    A crime is a crime even if it is done by Hindu god and condoned or denied by hindu fanatics “Mr. why and others”

    One hindu scholar says that the story’s inference is that woman can marry her rapist.

    They will do anything to deny rape. This hindu god also did molestation, gang-rape, murder, robbery, voyeuring, theft, lying, homosexuality ( with shiva to produce Ayappa) (this is even agreed by Sri Sri wjho is Hindu godman and guru. Proof supplied in next post)

    ( Please note: If Mr why wants multiple proof for the all the heinous crimes listed out by Hindu gods (Vishnu alias Krishna, Brahma, Shiva, Rama, Indra etc) as in previous posts will be provided but remember that this will make Mohamed look like a saint in relative comparison which is not my intention).

    Ref: Shiva Purana, Rudra Samhita 2, Yudha Khanda 5, Ch 23.38-45
    https://truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/hinduism-and-lust/
    Vishnu is said to have raped Tulsi/Vrinda by assuming the guise of her husband. What can be more disgusting than a god raping a chaste lady,
    Shiva Purana, Rudra Samhita 2, Yudha Khanda 5, Ch 23.38-45 ”On seeing her husband, Vrinda too was delighted. She forgot her sorrow. She considered everything a dream. Delighted in the heart and with all the dormant passions kindled up, she sported with him for many days in the middle of that forest. Once at the end of the sexual intercourse she realized that it was Vishnu. Vrinda rebuked him angrily and spoke thus. Vrinda said:—Fie on this misdeed of Vishnu in outraging the modesty of another man’s wife. I have now realized you as the wielder of illusion, appearing in the guise of an ascetic. Sanatkumara said:—O Vyasa, saying thus in great anger she showed her brilliant powers as a staunch chaste lady by cursing Vishnu. “O base foe of the Daityas, defiler of other people’s virtue, O wicked one, take this curse from me, greater in force than all persons. The two persons whom you made to appear in front of me shall become Rakshasas and abduct your wife. You will be distressed on account of separation from your wife roaming about with Sesa ‘lord of snakes’ who posed as your disciple here. You will seek the help of monkeys in the forest.” Tr. Board of Scholars, Edited by Jagdish Lal Shastri

    This story is also supported by Skanda Purana II.iv.21-10-24, Shiva Purana, Rudra Samhita 2, Yudha Khanda 5, Ch 41 verses 1-35, Brahma Vaivarta Purana, Prakriti Khanda 21.18-31 and also mentioned in Devi Bhagavatam 9.24.14-22 with a slight variation, readers can check Devi Bhagavatam verses which are available online at Sacred-texts.com. I will avoid posting the same story from different scriptures as I don’t want to flood this article with several passages. The variation of this story is in only in names, the name of Tulsi also appears as Vrinda and her husband’s Shankachuda’s name is replaced by Jalandhar.
    This poor lady named Vrinda/Tulsi was a devotee of Vishnu, it must have been so disheartening for her to be raped by the man whom she worshipped so devotedly every day. As per Shiva Purana, Rudra Samhita section 5, Ch 41.3-5 Vishnu assumed the form of her husband and raped her on the behest of Shiva. It was Shiva who ordered such heinous act. This was done in order to kill her husband in the battlefield, it is said that her husband Shankachuda/Jalandhar couldn’t be killed unless the chastity of his wife is outraged. Shiva is part of Trimurti and is considered the Destroyer but Shiva the so called Destroyer couldn’t destroy Jalandhar/Shankachuda so he commanded Vishnu to go and rape Vrinda/Tulsi. She cursed Vishnu to become a rock and that in his next incarnation (as Rama) his wife (Sita) will be kidnapped by a demon and he will have to seek help of monkeys (Hanuman/VanarSena). As per this story Ravana made no mistake by kidnapping Sita the wife of Rama, as this was already destined to happen. And was a result of Ram’s past deeds (rape of Vrinda/Tulsi).
    In the first attempt, Vishnu himself became a ‘female’ but in his second attempt he did what a normal man can NEVER imagine of doing. NO SECOND EXAMPLE IS AVAILABLE IN ANY OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD.
    King Jallandhar was ruler of Indian territory. He was true replica of Emperor Ashoka. Puran testifies that in his kingdom there was peace everywhere. It
    says that a damsel wearing load of gold ornaments and moving out in the dead of night had no threat to her chastity, life or ornaments.
    The Gods got jealous of him. They thought that if that trend continued, people would forget them. They approached Vishnu. He inquired into the matter and found that Ma Vrinda was the power behind King Jallandhar.
    With his criminal mind, he chalked out a conspiracy. The Gods were happy to know his evil designs. Gods engaged King Jallandhar in a battle outside his capital. Vishnu dressed like King Jallandhar and in the darkness entered the house of Ma Vrinda. She mistook him as her husband. And before she could raise any resistance, he committed rape on her.
    He was caught and his face was blackened but in the meantime, Ma Vrinda committed suicide. Since then in Indian peninsula, it has become a custom that a face of the sinner is blackened. King Jallandhar was down with the grief of suicide by his beloved wife, when Gods attacked and killed him. A state of Utopia was ruined by the Hindu Gods!
    Thru this criminal sin, the Supreme God of Brahmans gave a message to his people as to how to ‘use’ a woman to conquer one’s opponent. He told his people that use of woman either as Mohini or as Ma Vrinda never goes waste. THUS, THE VISHNU COULD BE CALLED ‘ADI-GUNDA’ THAT IS ‘SEED CRIMINAL’.
    Perhaps a mafia don too would be hesitant in taking such heinous step. But in Brahmanism such a criminal is their supreme god.

    The same story does not say rape (but chastity destroyed) in Wikipedia.
    Please note that “chastity destroyed” is a SANITISED meaning of RAPE
    Even Shiva—the Destroyer in the Hindu Trinity—could not defeat Jalandhar, so he requested Vishnu – the preserver in the Trinity – to find a solution. Vishnu disguised himself as Jalandhar and tricked Vrinda.
    Her chastity destroyed, Jalandhar lost his power and was killed by Shiva. Vrinda cursed Vishnu to become black in colour and to be would be separated from his wife, Lakshmi. This was later fulfilled when he was transformed into the black Shaligram stone (actually a fossil), and in his Rama avatar, was separated from his wife Sita, who was kidnapped by the demon-king Ravana. Vrinda then drowned herself in the ocean, and the gods (or Vishnu himself) transferred her soul to a plant, which was henceforth called Tulsi.
    As per a blessing by Vishnu to marry Vrinda in her next birth, Vishnu – in form of Shaligram – married Tulsi on Prabodhini Ekadashi. To commemorate this event, the ceremony of Tulsi Vivah is performed.[3][4]

    This hindu scholar Jaisiram says that the story says that a rape victim should marry the rapist.
    There once was an evil demon called Jalandhar. He had the power to change his shape and thus could incorporate
    anybody he wanted. He used this power to meet women, disguised as their husband and thus cheating them into having
    sex with him! When the men found out and came to fight with him, nobody could ever kill him – he had such big power due
    to the fact that his wife Vrinda was very loyal. Yes, the loyalty of his wife saved him from the revenge of his rape victims’
    husbands.
    The husbands turned to Vishnu, the highest of gods, and asked him for help. Vishnu decided to use Jalandhar’s own
    methods to defeat him: he assumed Jalandhar’s shape and seduced the demon’s wife. Her loyalty was thus broken and
    her husband lost all power connected to it. Vishnu could finally kill him.
    Vrinda, angry at Vishnu for cheating her this way, cursed Vishnu and turned him into a stone before jumping into the
    burning cremation fire of her husband, killing herself.
    She was reborn as Tulsi, a holy plant, and finally the bush Tulsi and the stone Vishnu, which is called Shaligram, married.

    https://truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/hinduism-and-lust/
    https://hinduismkisachai.wordpress.com/

    If Why wants multiple proof for the all the heinous crimes listed out by Hindu gods (Vishnu alias Krishna, Brahma, Shiva, Rama, Indra etc) as in previous posts will be provided but remember that this will make Mohamed look like a saint in relative comparison which is not my intentions.

  15. why 1? says:

    not working

  16. why? says:

    Ritual Human Sacrifice in bible:

    Christianity is based on human man-god sacrifice.

    In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said “Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.” Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that “consecrate” means a burning sacrifice. These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping.

    However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. “Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death.”

    Jephthah Burns His Daughter

    “At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, “If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”

    When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah’s daughter.” (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

    Burn Nonbelievers

    “Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

  17. why? says:

    testing

  18. why? says:

    Ron says:
    ===================================
    Cursing and incest by Krishna`s family:
    Krishna was a jealous God as he cursed his son Samba for committing incest with Krishna’s 16000 wives.
    Samba Purana 3:6-55; Bhavisya Purana 1:72-73.
    ==========================================

    Clearly, the reference given here is fake. There is no such reference in Bhavishya Purana.

    Ron says:
    ===================================
    Homosexuality between Vishnu and Shiva (this is true accepted even by Sri Sri )
    Hindu Shiva god impregnating Vishnu Hindu god and getting child god Ayappa
    ==========================================

    Unfortunately for you, the very word “Ayappa” is NOT even Sanskrit word. It is a Malayalam or Tamil word. There is NOT even one Hindu scripture which has such a story. This is a fake deity which did NOT exist until later than 17 or 18th century AD. There are many such fake gods that exist in Kerala. Rest of India does NOT even know of such deities. This is NOT part of orthodox Hinduism. These are tribal gods.

    Ron says:
    ===================================
    Rape by Krishna:
    Vishnu raped Jalandhar‘s wife (Varinda) who later committed suicide.
    ===================================

    Again fake story. There is NO rape in this story.

    Ron says:
    ===================================
    Bestiality is glorified in Hinduism.

    Indeed, great rishis (sages) have been born through bestiality (ref. Manusmrti 10:69-72.). The
    rishi Rsyasrnga had a deer for a mom.

    Furthermore, Pandu (the dad of the five famous Pandava princes) had accidentally killed a rishi who was in
    animal form having sex with a deer (ref. Mahabharata Adiparvan 95.).

    Hindu queens and other Aryan women of diverse provinces in ancient Hindustan used to have sex with dead horses during the Asvamedha sacrifice, and Lord Rama’s mom Kausalya spent an entire night having sex with a carcass of a sacrificial horse in Valmiki Ramayana (ref. Ramayana 1:13:24-33.)
    ===================================

    Again, ONLY idiots (likes of Ron) who do NOT know what the stories are about talk nonsense like this.

    Manusmrti 10:72. As through the power of the seed (sons) born of animals became sages who are honoured and praised, hence the seed is declared to be more important.

    What does the above statement mean? Does it mean somebody had sex with animals? The same Manusmrithi says bestiality is sinful.

    11.173. A man who has committed a bestial crime, or an unnatural crime with a female, or has had intercourse in water, or with a menstruating woman, shall perform a Samtapana Krikkhra.

    So Manusmriti is NOT talking about sages born out of bestiality, but of power of sages whose offsprings (seed) survive even in a beast’s womb because of their super human powers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishyasringa

    Read the above link.

    Now where in Ramayan it is written that Kausalya had sex with dead horse? Another pure lies from christians. Like their father (satanic liar jeebus), so christians..

    http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/baala/sarga13/bala_13_frame.htm

  19. why? says:

    “Incest and perpetual lies by Brahma”
    ================================

    This was already proven to be lies before.

    Matsya Purana 3:30-32

    sdvitrim lokasrstyartham hrdi krtvd samasthitah I
    tatah saiijapatas” tasya bhittvd deham akalmasam II
    stririipam ardham akarod ardham purusariipavat I
    satariipii ca sakhydtd sdvitri ca nigadyate II
    sarasvaty atha gdyatri brahmiini ca parantapa I
    tatah svadehasambhutdm dtmajdm ity akalpayat II

    In order to create the world, he who was evenly-postured established Savitri in his heart.
    Then he whispered [something] and split his pure body [in two]. Half he made in the form of a woman, half in the likeness of a man. She is named Satarupa and is called Savitri, Sarasvati, Gayatri, and Brahmani, 0 enemy-burner. [And] so he made [her] out of himself, from his own body.

    So it is clear that this so called daughter (Satarupa etc. names for her) is NOT actually Brahma’s daughter, as daughter is produced through a wife. Here Satarupa is prodiced by splitting Brahma’s own body into two and it is Brahma’s wife only.

    Ron says:
    ============================
    Murder and abduction and polygamy:
    Krishna treacherously and deceitfully killed Sisupala, Kamsa, and Salva. Krishna has not stopped at murders alone but was also an abductor of women.
    Krishna abducted Rukmini just a day before her wedding with Sisupala, kidnapped Mitravinda from her swayamvara grounds and thus established a harem of 16008 wives and begot 180000 sons from them.
    =============================

    1. Ignorant foolish statements who does NOT understand anything about these episodes. First of all, Sisupala, Kamsa, salva etc. are incarnations of demons in Mahabharatha. So Krishna killed them.

    2. Rukmini etc. are all different avataras or incarnations of Goddess Laskhmi, of one Goddess only appearing in different Forms to keep it simple. There are some principles of yoga, 16,108 nadis or nerves in human bodies poetically included in this story through 16,108 wives of Krishna.

    3. Rukmini was forcibly to be married off to a demon Sisupala by her brother Rugmi. She sends letter to Krishna to save her and marry her. Krishna does the same. The same type of story is repeated with Mitravinda etc. 7 others and other 16100 wives of Krishna. All of them were captured by demonic creatures, Krishna comes to deliver them and marry them.

    What is the need for such stories? There are multiple meanings attributed here. Yogic meaning is when one tries to achieve something in yogic practices, first demons (representing greed, hatred for good, lust etc.) all attack our mind and nadis and keep away true peace and joyous union with Vedic God. The 16108 wives represent the nadis, which when polluted by demonic attack in our body we fail getting enlightenment.

    4. I am NOT rejecting any literal story here also. Here Krishna is God and NOT subject to mortal flaws. So getting sons by Krishna does NOT include sexual intercourse. Mahabharatha only clarifies this.

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs15038.htm

    Book 15 Chapter 38

    21 santi deva nikāyāś ca saṃkalpāñ janayanti ye
         vācā dṛṣṭyā tathā sparśāt saṃgharṣeṇeti pañcadhā

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m15/m15030.htm

    The deities are possessed of (Yoga) puissance. They are able to penetrate human bodies. 1 There are deities. They beget (offspring) by thought alone. By word, by sight, by touch, and by sexual union, also, they beget children. These are the five methods.

    47:1 The puissance here referred to is that of Anima, Laghima, etc. i.e., the capacity of becoming minute and subtile, etc. These are super human powers.

    So here Krishna being the Vedic God as per Mahabhartha, He begets by thought alone. He is simultaneously present with all the wives at any given time.

  20. why? says:

    Ron,

    Now see, how sAtvika (good) Puranas explain the case of Anasuya. Srimad BhAgavatha Purana is listed as sAtvika Purana. There is NO rape or any such thing mentioned here. Hope you will read it and see my point. There is NO mention of sex or any such stories. THIS is the REAL STORY behind Hindu Gods and Anasuya.

    http://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/4/1

    SB 4.1.15 — Anasūyā, the wife of Atri Muni, gave birth to three very famous sons — Soma, Dattātreya and Durvāsā — who were partial representations of Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā. Soma was a partial representation of Lord Brahmā, Dattātreya was a partial representation of Lord Viṣṇu, and Durvāsā was a partial representation of Lord Śiva.
    SB 4.1.16 — After hearing this, Vidura inquired from Maitreya: My dear master, how is it that the three deities Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Śiva, who are the creator, maintainer and destroyer of the whole creation, became the offspring of the wife of Atri Muni?
    SB 4.1.17 — Maitreya said: When Lord Brahmā ordered Atri Muni to create generations after marrying Anasūyā, Atri Muni and his wife went to perform severe austerities in the valley of the mountain known as Ṛkṣa.
    SB 4.1.18 — In that mountain valley flows a river named Nirvindhyā. On the bank of the river are many aśoka trees and other plants full of palāśa flowers, and there is always the sweet sound of water flowing from a waterfall. The husband and wife reached that beautiful place.
    SB 4.1.19 — There the great sage concentrated his mind by the yogic breathing exercises, and thereby controlling all attachment, he remained standing on one leg only, eating nothing but air, and stood there on one leg for one hundred years.
    SB 4.1.20 — He was thinking: May the Lord of the universe, of whom I have taken shelter, kindly be pleased to offer me a son exactly like Him.
    SB 4.1.21 — While Atri Muni was engaged in these severe austerities, a blazing fire came out of his head by virtue of his breathing exercise, and that fire was seen by the three principal deities of the three worlds.
    SB 4.1.22 — At that time, the three deities approached the hermitage of Atri Muni, accompanied by the denizens of the heavenly planets, such as the celestial beauties, the Gandharvas, the Siddhas, the Vidyādharas and the Nāgas. Thus they entered the āśrama of the great sage, who had become famous by his austerities.
    SB 4.1.23 — The sage was standing on one leg, but as soon as he saw that the three deities had appeared before him, he was so pleased to see them all together that despite great difficulty he approached them on one leg.
    SB 4.1.24 — Thereafter he began to offer prayers to the three deities, who were seated on different carriers — a bull, a swan and Garuḍa — and who held in their hands a drum, kuśa grass and a discus. The sage offered them his respects by falling down like a stick.
    SB 4.1.25 — Atri Muni was greatly pleased to see that the three devas were gracious towards him. His eyes were dazzled by the effulgence of their bodies, and therefore he closed his eyes for the time being.
    SB 4.1.26-27 — But since his heart was already attracted by the deities, somehow or other he gathered his senses, and with folded hands and sweet words he began to offer prayers to the predominating deities of the universe. The great sage Atri said: O Lord Brahmā, Lord Viṣṇu and Lord Śiva, you have divided yourself into three bodies by accepting the three modes of material nature, as you do in every millennium for the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the cosmic manifestation. I offer my respectful obeisances unto all of you and beg to inquire whom of you three I have called by my prayer.
    SB 4.1.28 — I called for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, desiring a son like Him, and I thought of Him only. But although He is far beyond the mental speculation of man, all three of you have come here. Kindly let me know how you have come, for I am greatly bewildered about this.
    SB 4.1.29 — The great sage Maitreya continued: Upon hearing Atri Muni speak in that way, the three great deities smiled, and they replied in the following sweet words.
    SB 4.1.30 — The three deities told Atri Muni: Dear brāhmaṇa, you are perfect in your determination, and therefore as you have decided, so it will happen; it will not happen otherwise. We are all the same person upon whom you were meditating, and therefore we have all come to you.
    SB 4.1.31 — You will have sons who will represent a partial manifestation of our potency, and because we desire all good fortune for you, those sons will glorify your reputation throughout the world.
    SB 4.1.32 — Thus, while the couple looked on, the three deities Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara disappeared from that place after bestowing upon Atri Muni the benediction.
    SB 4.1.33 — Thereafter, from the partial representation of Brahmā, the moon-god was born of them; from the partial representation of Viṣṇu, the great mystic Dattātreya was born; and from the partial representation of Śaṅkara [Lord Śiva], Durvāsā was born.

  21. why? says:

    Ron Says:
    ===================================================
    Gang Rape by Hopeless Hindu Gods and they are punished.
    Lord Brahma, Vishnu & Siva rape Anasuya and are cursed. This is also an origin of the holy Shiv linga as Siva is cursed to be worshipped as the linga (phallus):

    Bhavisya Purana 3:4:17:67-78.
    ==================================================

    I give you this Ron. This reference does exist in Hindu scriptures as it is given in your quote. Question is why such verses exist in Hinduism belittling their own Gods. There is a reason for that.

    There is 3-fold classification of Purana or literally “old stories” (as per Hinduism): Totally there 18 of them.

    1. 6 of them classified as sAtvika or good. They lead to permanent good.
    2. 6 of them classified as rajas or passion (desire) creating ones. These lead to pain and suffering.
    3. 6 of them classified as Tamas. These lead to permanent suffering or hell.

    Evidence is there from Hindu Puranas only.

    Padmapurana Uttarakhanda 235 Adhyaya.
    Satvika Puranas:
    वैष्णवं नारदीयं च तथा भागवतं शुभम् ।
    गारुडं च तथा पाद्मं वाराहं शुभदर्शने ।
    सात्विकानि पुराणानि विज्ञेयानि शुभानि वै ।।
    · Vishnu Purana
    · Naradiya Purana
    · Padma Purana
    · Garuda Purana
    · Varaha Purana
    · Srimad Bhagavata Maha Purana

    are said to be sAtvika puranas and are auspicious.

    Rajasa Puranas:
    ब्रह्माण्डं ब्रह्मवैवर्तं मार्कण्डेयं तथैव च ।
    भविष्यं वामनं ब्राह्मं राजसानि निबोधत ।।
    · Brahmanda Purana
    · Brahmavaivarta
    · Markandeya Purana
    · Bhavishya Purana
    · Vamana Purana
    · Brahma Purana

    are said to be rAjasa puranas.

    Tamasa Puranas :
    मात्सयं कौर्मं तथा लैङ्गम् शैवं स्कान्दं तथैव च ।
    आग्नेयं च षडेतानि तामसानि निबोधत ।।
    · Matsya Purana
    · Kurma Purana
    · Linga Purana
    · Shiva Purana
    · Skanda Purana
    · Agni Purana

    the above six are said to be tAmasa puranas.

    सात्विका मोक्षदाः प्रोक्ताः राजसा सर्वदा अशुभाः ।
    तथैव तामसा देवि निरयप्राप्तिहेतवः ।। प.पु. उत्तर 236.21

    Among these puranas, sAtvika Puranas lead one to liberation, rAjasa cause inauspiciousness or sorrow (ashubhA) always (sarvadA) and tamasa puranas lead one to hell (niraya prApti).

    Evil souls either due to their hatred for Hindu gods which is innate in them, will be lead to hell, while those good souls cannot accept such stories. So the same events of Hindu Gods are given true and false interpretation by Hindu Puranas itself to mislead evil and mixed souls while good souls attain permanent happiness. Those Puranas and parts of Puranas that agree with Vedic texts and its interpretation is taken as authentic in orthodox Hinduism, while others are rejected.

    Now lets go to the event of Anasuya and see from one of the sAtvika Purana.

  22. why? says:

    Ron quotes non-existent
    =========================================
    Mathara Mupathya, susara mupaithe, Puthrartheetha
    Sagamarthi, Napathra loka, nasthee thath.
    Saravam paravo vindu ha, dasmath Puthrar tham
    Matharam suransathee Rahathee.
    ==============================================

    Ron and Ali Sina,

    You are both cowards. Both of you temporarily banned me from this website since I asked you some questions.

    Now coward Ron,

    Do you understand Sanskrit? Can you give word to word meaning? No..

    Do you have proper reference for these verses Ron? Where is the reference for these verses? None is provided.

    Is this how christians like muslims malign other religions. Just write non-existent verses from the web with no proper citations whatsoever.

  23. why 1? says:

    test

  24. Ron says:

    Dear Dr Nishant,

    I believe you may have more knowledge than anyone on sanatan dharma or Hinduism. But to know whether a criminal act is a crime doesn`t need extra knowledge (unless you mean taqqiya)

    I honestly believe that you did not know the criminal activities of the Hindu gods and so till now you were worshipping them blindly. This is happening to lot of good Hindus who continue to worship these gods who have long rap sheets of crimes listed below.

    There is no justification for absolving the perpetrators (the Hindu gods Rama, Krishna (alias Vishnu), Brahma, Shiva, Indra and others in pantheon) let alone worship them for crimes like debauchery, prostitution, serial rape, bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, homosexuality, murder, kidnap, ransom, fornication, patricide, matricide, incest, theft, serial killings. This was done by Hindu gods sometimes against other gods in the pantheon, against their own kin, against other innocents, humans, against animals etc.

    Just as Muslims are unable to accept the crimes of Mohamed and many are not aware similarly many Hindus do not know the dastardly crimes done by their pantheon of gods (Krishna alias Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Indra and others )

    All men have committed sins including Hindu gods but only Jesus is sinless. You need to try Jesus sincerely and if he does not answer then continue worshipping idols or these Hindu gods knowing their rap sheet of crimes mentioned above and below.

    This is a PARTIALl rap list of dastardly crimes done by Hindu gods. If you need an EXTENDED list with references please request it can be made available

    Gang Rape by Hopeless Hindu Gods and they are punished.
    Lord Brahma, Vishnu & Siva rape Anasuya and are cursed. This is also an origin of the holy Shiv linga as Siva is cursed to be worshipped as the linga (phallus):

    “One day the sage Atri was performing tapas with his wife Anasuya. Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva came and offered him a boon, but Atri remained silent, meditating. Then the three gods went to Anasuya. Siva had his linga in his hand, Vishnu was full of erotic feeling, and Brahma was beside himself with desire, saying to Anasuya, ‘Make love with me or I will die.’ When she heard this coarse speech, Anasuya made no reply, for, although she feared the anger of the gods, she was true to her husband. But they were overcome with delusion, and they raped her by force. Then she became angry and she cursed Siva to be worshipped as a linga, Brahma to be worshipped in the form of a head, and Vishnu to be worshipped as feet, in order to ridicule them all, and she cursed them all to be reborn as her sons. Because of this, Siva was reborn as Durvasas.” — Bhavisya Purana 3:4:17:67-78.

    Rape by Shiva
    Once Lord Siva visited to Tarugavanam and meet Birunthai Rishi. At that time Lord Siva saw Rishi’s very beautiful wife. Usually Lord Siva is worst in sexual character. Lord Siva planned to rape Rishi’s wife and in midnight Lord Siva made the voice of cock. Immediately Birunthai Rishi thought that was dawn and he went to River Ganges for bath. In the meantime Lord Siva changed his shape himself as like Birunthai Rishi and entered inside the cottage. Rishi’s wife did not refuse for the sex and Lord Siva enjoyed sex with her. Birunthai Rishi confused himself and feel that time must be midnight. Rishi immediately returned to his cottage and saw his wife in raped condition. Rishi identified that was Lord Siva. Rishi got angry about this kind of immoral activity of Lord Siva. Rishi gave Sabam ( the effective spiritual words during the time of anger ). Rishi cried, ” The penis rapes my wife must be destroy immediately.” After the sabam of Rishi, The penis of Lord Siva detached from him and come down to the earth as like arrow. The Devas requested Lord Siva’s wife Parvathi to save the earth from the danger of Lord Siva’s penis. Parvathi herself accepted the penis of Lord Siva into her vagina as like lock and key method. Lord Brahma gave base support to the sexual organs that is linga Beetam. Only the sexual organs of Lord Siva and Parvathi is known as Siva Lingam.

    Incest and perpetual lies by Brahma
    On seeing his daughter Padma (Sarasvati), Brahma was very much moved. He looked at the beauty of his daughter. He wooed his daughter and wanted to have intercourse. How could a daughter give consent to one’s own father? Padma refused. Brahma did not give up his desire. He began to quote the Vedas to his daughter to make her realise that there is nothing wrong in enjoying with anyone, anytime, anywhere for the sake of giving birth to a child:

    Mathara Mupathya, susara mupaithe, Puthrartheetha
    Sagamarthi, Napathra loka, nasthee thath.
    Saravam paravo vindu ha, dasmath Puthrar tham
    Matharam suransathee Rahathee.

    This is the Sanskrit sloka Brahma quoted to his daughter. He explained to his daughter, that for the sake of a child one can enjoy with one’s own sister or daughter, as per the authority of the sacred Vedas composed by Brahmin scholar.

    A God whose one head tells lies and other four tell truth!!!!!:

    “Brahma desired Sarasvati and went to her, asking her to stay with him. She, being his daughter, was furious at this and said, ‘Your mouth speaks inauspiciously and so you will always speak in a contrary way.’ From that day, Brahma’s fifth head always spoke evilly and coarsely. Therefore one day when Siva was wandering about with Parvathi and came to see Brahma, Brahma’s four heads praised Siva but the fifth made an evil sound. Siva, displeased with the fifth head, cut it off. The skull remained stuck fast to Siva’s hand, and though he was capable of burning it up, Siva wandered the earth with it for the sake of all people, until he came to Benares.” — Siva Purana, Jnanasamhita 49:65-80.

    Incest:
    Hindu God Krishna’s son Samba married his father Krishna’s wives (incest) and the other son Pradyumna fornicated with his foster mother and married her.

    Murder and abduction and polygamy:
    Krishna treacherously and deceitfully killed Sisupala, Kamsa, and Salva. Krishna has not stopped at murders alone but was also an abductor of women.
    Krishna abducted Rukmini just a day before her wedding with Sisupala, kidnapped Mitravinda from her swayamvara grounds and thus established a harem of 16008 wives and begot 180000 sons from them.

    Prostitution and Red light district –pimping by Krishna:
    Krishna also established a red light area in Dwarka where Lord himself settled thousands of Public women.

    Cursing and incest by Krishna`s family:
    Krishna was a jealous God as he cursed his son Samba for committing incest with Krishna’s 16000 wives.
    Samba Purana 3:6-55; Bhavisya Purana 1:72-73.

    The other son Pradyumna also showed no respect to Krishna when he made love to his foster mother Mayadevi and later married her.
    But Krishna should not have blamed his sons for their incestuous conduct because Krishna himself had incestuous relationship with his aunt Radha.
    Radha was the wife of Krishna’s maternal uncle.

    Homosexuality between Vishnu and Shiva (this is true accepted even by Sri Sri )
    Hindu Shiva god impregnating Vishnu Hindu god and getting child god Ayappa

    Rape by Krishna:
    Vishnu raped Jalandhar‘s wife (Varinda) who later committed suicide. Love-lorn Vishnu did not even let her go after death. He bathed in her ashes, bereaved her death for days and cried loudly.
    Bestiality is glorified in Hinduism.

    Just as incest is not an infrequent theme in Hindu scripture, sex with
    animals is also not an uncommon motif in Hinduism. Indeed, great rishis
    (sages) have been born through bestiality (ref. Manusmrti 10:69-72.). The
    rishi Rsyasrnga had a deer for a mom. Furthermore, Pandu (the dad of the
    five famous Pandava princes) had accidentally killed a rishi who was in
    animal form having sex with a deer (ref. Mahabharata Adiparvan 95.). Hindu
    queens and other Aryan women of diverse provinces in ancient Hindustan used
    to have sex with dead horses during the Asvamedha sacrifice, and Lord Rama’s
    mom Kausalya spent an entire night having sex with a carcass of a
    sacrificial horse in Valmiki Ramayana (ref. Ramayana 1:13:24-33.).

    Bestiality depictions have also been found at the Khajuraho temple-complex in Hindustan.

    Brahma`s bestiality
    Then Brahma began to roam about in the forests. He happened to see a female bear in a bush. Brahma would not leave it. He went straight to the bush. The female bear yielded to Brahma. God Brahma enjoyed with the bear and a human being with the head of a bear was born. He is called Jambu Vandan, the son of Brahma.
    Hindu gods Indra and Agni ) are molesting other people’s wife’s (Ahalya) .

    Shiva sex with Madhura who came to worship him
    Once when Parwati was away, Shiva had sexual inter course with a woman called Madhura, who came to Kailas to worship him. On her return, Parwati saw her husband Shiva making love with Madhura, and she became a frog. When the period of the curse was over after twelve years, the frog took the form of Mandodari who became the wife of Ravana, the ten-headed king of Lanka. The sperm of Shiva which remained dormant in the womb of Mandodari when the was frog began to develop, and finally gave birth to Indrajit. Thus, the so-called son of Ravana-Indrajit of Lanka-was an intelligence son of Shiva.

    Sources:
    http://drambedkarji.blogspot.ca/2010/08/brahmas-sex-with-daughter-animals.html
    http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=19589
    https://hinduismkisachai.wordpress.com/

  25. Dr. Nishant says:

    Dear Ron,
    You have no knowledge of anything about sanatan dharma, hinduism, and to a greater extent of christianity as well. There is no point in refuting your claims, as the gods are omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient and donot need my intervention. The main reason is you havent accepted that you can err, and we are discussing only to improve our selves. I requested you several times to make the above affirmation and i would have shown you how you were wrong in each and every sentence.

    Please read the post below several times and a few days later to understand what i am saying.

    Bye

  26. Dr. Nishant says:

    Dear Ron,
    Please read this with an open mind.
    You surely donot have a sense of enquiry the basic pre requisite to understand let alone realise the truth, for even after repeated requests by me to make an admission which only meant to keep aside the ego and simply explore. Indeed the only thing that is required for 1 to realise himself according to the upanishads is to be egoless. If you really contemplate, internalise and experience the bible, the only message it gives is to love, and to drop the ego, for where there is ego, there cannot be love. Dont just read the verses verbatim, duffer, try and realise the message. Even the adi granth(sikhism) says the same thing ‘where thou truly are, egoism is not, and where egoism is not, life is and you are’ so does buddhism and jainism. You simply copy paste what suits you from the net, without even verifying the truth. And when i am telling you that i can refute every single sentence of yours in your posts, just plz accept that we are doing this exercise so as to improve our selves and not for an ego game, you dont acknowledge it. Is this your sincerity to truth? Again, i showed you how i read the lines of bible, even though they are the same words , how our meanings could possibly differ, you werent even aware of this difference. This is what vedas and the upanishads teach, as to how to actually question, reason, contemplate, meditate and realise. Thats why even though buddhist and jain scriptures acknowledge the vedas and use all of its terminologies and many of its sutras, how they arrive at different conclusions. I also told you that i find this verse in bible significant “there shall be time no more”, while describing the celestial life, which is misinterpretated diluting its significance in various different bible translations. For it is only in the PRESENT that one could experience peace and joy, and this is not just common sense but my experience. Even by logic you can see that sadness sorrow despair etc are from the past while worries are from the future, it is only when 1 is deeply and totally in the present moment that 1 can be joyous and at peace. Think about the moment when you were joyous and just contemplate. Thus when a person is ETERNALLY PRESENT that means that he is in peace and no matter what the circumstances are or what the adverse atmosphere is, the peace cannot be disturbed of the person who is eternally present. Hence there is no need for any luxuries,or sensual delights in the true ‘heaven’ for what can they give a person who is eternally in bliss!!! Any person who advances spiritually, becomes more and more silent and peaceful and joyous. He may not have knowledge but he is aware of the presence. You can observe this in true yogis and true sadhus by the aura of their awareness and bliss. Just observe, say sri sri ravi shankar or dalai lama, i am naming only these 2 for they are famous in the west. This calmness , peace and joy if they are eternally present is what every soul wants, isnt it? And since this can be experienced only in the present, all these techniques of mantra, tantra, yoga, philosophy, vedas etc are, just to reach egolessness hence love, and this is the only criteria when applied universally is what the basis of enquiry (in reading the text or otherwise) is, and any thing that doesnt pass this when you test this through your own logic, reasonig, perception, evidence and is not universally acceptable then it is not to be considered the truth (yajur veda). Thus you can view the reality differently and hence conclusions may differ, but the basics of dharma (eternal laws of the cosmos) such as truth, non violence, compassion, love remain the same in all the dharmic religions. So, now do you get a hint of the atheistic philosophy of buddha? For what has he said that so much offends you. He only said how you could be eternally be present and that is the only important thing, he neither accepted nor rejected the gods. For god(the way common people use the term) is not even needed to attain this permanent state. Most people just read the ethical precepts and stories, and that suffices for the innocent, as they delligiently follow the righteous path of dharma and grow spiritually. But for some like us, need to understand question and only then we accept and then we contemplate, meditate and realise the truth(so much for our knowledge), and with the power of ego and cunningness of our minds it becomes tricky, thats what i feel. So just copy pasting material wont do, for a discussion to occur it is better not to quote but just write based on your memories and what you feel.

    Even though I believe i may be much younger in age than you, i want to suggest something to you. You must have felt something, experienced it, felt utterly blissful and immensely loved at some point of time with jesus. How long did this last? What if it is possible to feel this exponentially? How can you feel this all the time? That is how to be in utter awareness in the presence with no baggage from the past and no worries of the future? Do you feel that inspite of your efforts your message of jesus doesnt reach people? Why so? You must have been with people , who when say something people listen, feel comfortable in their presence? You talk about ‘holy spirit’ as if some ghost who possess (however noble he may be) what if the spirit is love in you? So how can you be lovely? Please just contemplate.
    It feels so suffocating, like the muslims holding their swords on the neck and asking either you convert or we behead you, so also the methods of the evangelists who keep on trying to force their own point of view, while they are not themselves fixated in the true reality of the self which is in the present.
    Please forgive me for being harsh in the following paras, for there is no other way to wake you up i feel.
    I was right in my observations of you and the evangelical cult of christianity, to liken with the TAQIYA of the Muslims.
    You blatantly LIE, DECIEVE, YOU ARE A FRAUD Ron. And i am about to prove you, so atleast in this instance accept that you erred and were wrong.
    The testimony you posted of a Brahmin with the qualifications, i started reading quickly. Even by cursory reading, i realised that every thing in this testiomony, like a Bhattacharya brahmin, who is from nepal, familial priest hood in tamil nadu, in a muthical village etc, with supposed degrees, gold medal in parliament, by the president, the RSS, the wrong information of babri masjid episode and the supposed massacre etc are not only lies but purposeful and deliberate villifications of indians and the hindus by prolesytising christians. But whats the point in refuting these, for i soon found out a paragraph in the testimony that i can easily and unequivocally prove that this is a fraud, and the testiomony is cheap and doctored.
    From the testimony-
    //”Tears started to gush out my eyes to know who this begotten Son of God is. Then I heard a voice telling me to read the rigveda. Upon opening it what I read in Sanskrit was ” Santhakaram purakasayanam, pathmanabam suresham, vishwakaram…….mekavarnam….lakshikanthan…yogikirtham vandal bishnumbam, survalokayika….” which means, “The God so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son of God that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life”. When I read the bible scripture in my own Rigveda I decided that even if I die I must obey this only begotten son and that I must surrender my life to Him”.//
    Read carefully the verses and their meaning, he didnt even copy paste from a proper source and has a few words missing, so it is not even gramatically correct, (you know how strict sanskrit scholars are for their grammar) there may be a million sanskrit scholars in the world, bring 1 to refute the meaning that i write. The real verses:
    ‘Santhakaram Bujaga sayanam Padmanabham suresam,
    Viswadharam Gagana sadrusam Megha varnam shubangam
    Lakshmi kantham kamala nayanam Yogi hrid dyana gamyam
    Vande vishnum bava bhayaharam sava lokaika nadham’

    I bow before the God Vishnu,
    Who is personification of peace,
    Who sleeps on his folded arms,
    Who has a lotus on his belly,
    Who is the God of gods,
    Who is the basis of earth,
    Who is similar to the sky,
    Who is of the colour of the cloud,
    Who has beautiful limbs,
    Who is the consort of Lakshmi,
    Who has lotus like eyes,
    Who is seen by saints through thought,
    Who kills all worries and fears,
    And who is the lord of all the worlds.

    These verses are from Sloka Shantakaram, within Vishnu Sahasranam where the Rishi is praising lord vishnu.
    This is not even from Rig Veda.
    Is there even any remotest possibility of it meaning “The God so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son of God that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life”

    If you had even a little bit of common sense Ron, then you could have noticed that the mention of jesus christ being the son of god and his sacrifice, if it was even remotely been mentioned in Rig veda which is atleast 3000 BCE old would that not have been known to all the christians and the world?

    Like Shiva, i must strongly protest and i request the editors to note the concerns of Shiva as i concur with them. I will not participate in this site for a while just to protest.

    Try and take this post in a lighter vein.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
    Bye

  27. Ron says:

    Dear Shiva and Dr Nishant,

    Just for your information, Dr P Satish Kumar bought a 12 acres piece of land in Hyderabad city to build his church (in 52 days), which he did. That is a project management or engineering miracle. His church has grown exponentially in a Muslim and Hindu dominated area which is another miracle in spite of anti-Christian forces trying to impede it.

    Anti-Christian elements took him to court on the land title but these anti-Christian forces lost the court verdict.

    There are a few messages of his which are in English and all of them seem to be consistent with Christian doctrine. Most of his messages/sermons are in an Indian languages without subtitles in English and so I don’t understand and so I am not sure of its veracity that is the reason I cannot comment, though I strongly believe he is not a fraud. Raising funds using lotteries is not a fraudulent activity if the prizes as mentioned are given out. I rest my case in this until I find more evidence.

    I never considered Hinduism to be a violent religion and considered it be tolerant one. I only felt it was idol-worshipping. Only when some Hindus started speaking against Jesus did I start digging into Hindu Gods and find them having engaged in mother lode of felonies right from debauchery, selfishness, pornography, prostitution, serial rape, bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, homosexuality, murder, kidnap, ransom, fornication, patricide, matricide, incest, theft, serial killings. This was done by Hindu gods sometimes against other gods in the pantheon, against their own kin, against other innocents, humans, against animals etc.

    How can they be role models?

    This Manu Smriti is clearly an apartheid document condoning or advocating rape, murder, bestiality, theft, pedophilia, generational slavery, felonies, larceny, debauchery, fornication, when committed by a Brahman against another lower caste member. They are supposed to be celestial laws approved by supreme pantheon of gods.

    Man is sinful but God is different. Ram, Krishna (alias Vishnu), Indra, Brahma, Shiva etc. are supposed to be role models and not sexual predators involving in gang-rape murder, extortion, kidnapping, homosexuality ( I can give you reference of the Hindu scriptures with each of the above felonies and the Hindu gods committing it)

    World war 1 and 2 were cause by men and was for real-estate, resources and political in nature and not supported by teachings of Jesus. Slavery and colonialism etc. were not product of Jesus’s teachings. Jesus did not free the Israelites from Roman domination in around the 30th century when he died and rose again. But his followers without arms felled the Roman Empire which used to feed them to the lions.

    Hinduism and Buddhism did not have to go all over the world to spread because its lands were defeated and conquered easily by the Muslims and then the British. Their cultures were wiped out by Muslims and not by the British (e.g. India is still 3% Christian). In fact with the advent of the British and defeat of the dominant Mughal empire by the British let India did not become majority Muslim. The British did use divide and rule but they united a country of splintered kingdoms.

    Christianity is the most persecuted religious people in the world after Jews. Hindus are persecuted only in Pakistan and to some extent in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and nowhere else.
    But Hindus have persecuted minorities specially after independence and the higher caste Hindus have also persecuted the lower castes Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and Sikhs (to a small extent). I know this is debatable but this is agreed by my Sikh friends here in the West.

    Christianity cannot be forced upon you. You accept Christ because there is NO ONE comparable to his teaching and Christ is sinless. Christians believe that Christ died and rose for our sins. No other faith comes near to doing good to mankind than what Christianity does.

    The banking and bankruptcy laws wherein the son doesn’t have to perpetually pay the fathers/forefathers/brothers unpaid loan was started by Christians. Before that in India if a man took a loan and he could not pay the interest and the principal (his son and then grandson would have to pay it).

    It was the British who banned the Sati (bride-burning), Pindhari and Thugs movement (religious robbery and killing of travellers), encouraged widow –remarriage, had laws cancelling feudal loans, forbidding child labor, temple prostitution etc. I was surprised to see child labor thriving in Indian subcontinent & Africa. Crime against women and children is very high in India as well as Nepal (of course Africa also).

    The highest number of first adoptions of orphans in the world is done by Christians.

    More than 85% of second orphan adoptions around the world is done by Christians.

    The majority of the AIDS and Leprosy homes in the world and specially in the third world is run by Christians wherein the majority of the inmates are non-Christians.

    The highest charity raised for the care and healing of orphans, widows and the sick is done by Christians.

    Majority of the homes for the destitute, lepers, AIDS homes and free orphanages (non-government funded) around the world are run by Christians.

    No other faith comes near to doing good to mankind than what Christianity does.

    Christ said for establishing peace, follow me, love your enemies, bless them and forgive them.

    Seek Christ and you will find peace and you will not have eve a bit of hatred for any human being whether he is Muslim, pagan, Hindu, atheist, Buddhist etc. When you pass by a panhandler or beggar or homeless person of any faith then you will still feel pangs of compassion to help them.

    If you still bear any hatred (which cannot be justified in any way) towards another human being (whether it is Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist etc. ) then be sure that it is because you have not received Christ and following him. Christ is the only answer.

    Please read The testimony in text produced in the post below

    May the peace of Christ be with everyone on the forum.

  28. Ron says:

    Testimony of Dr. Srinivasa Bhattachary.
    Dr Srinivas Bhattacharya is a double PHD (In Sanskrit and Hindu Shastra) from BHU, double gold medallist and former temple chief priest who became Christian. You will see him in India specially in the south and travels around the world.

    “Good morning. How many of you are really happy this morning? I am Dr. Srinivasa Bhattachary. If I appropriately introduce myself stating my full name it is too long. I come from the 145th direct generation of Sri Vaishnam Bhattachary priesthood community. Even today, grandfather, Raghu Bhattachary is the chief priest in Srilakshmaneshaswamy Devasthanam at Ponvanugalathoor. I come from a family background of priests and today my whole family are Bhattacharyas for the gods who have eyes but cannot see, who have ears but cannot hear, who have noses but cannot smell, who have hands but cannot touch, who have legs but cannot walk, but I by the grace of Jesus Christ, have come among you as a Bhattacharya for Lord Jesus Christ.

    At the age of six I wore the sacred thread (poonool) according to the Hindu tradition. I was given to the Gayathri Diksha, ombhoohu, Ombhuwaha, Om subhaga, ommaha, Omjanaka, Om thapaka, Om sathyam, Om thathuservdarinam, Om barbudevastimagam, Om diviyayonagam,Om prajothaya, Om jothirasakam, Om amarthavaram, Om burbosaram. I was sent to an ashramam for my studies. Right from my childhood I studied the Rigveda, Yegurveda, Samarveda, Adarvarnaveda, Nalayiram Lijya Prabhandtha, Ethihasa, Purana Ramayana, Mahabharatha, Bhagvatgeetha etc etc in the Hindu mythological subjects in Sanskrit as well as in the Grandha Language. Once my early education was over in Hindu philosophy in south India, I was sent to North India, Uttar Pradesh to do my doctorate in the Banaras University. I went there and did my siromony in Sanskrit and PhD in Grandha. While I was studying in the Banaras University the destruction of the Babri Masjid took place at Ayodhya. Since I was a Bhattachary and since I was doing my double PhD in a famous Hindu University, I was chosen by the RSS as their national youth leader. The objective of the RSS, as you all know, is to stop foreign religions coming to India. They are especially dead against Christ and Christianity being proclaimed in the land of India. When I was in this organization as their national Youth leader, my personal commitment was to destroy the mosque then and there. In those days my faith in the Hindu religion and their gods was very strong and so I went all the way to France and I peddled a dynamite bomb and I brought it to India and set it off at the tomb of the mosque, using my personal computer from my cabin. At that time many Islamic fundamentalists came forward to stop us in our activities. In retaliation our Hindu parishad people chopped their hands and legs and chopped off their heads and killed not less than 3000 people and flung their bodies into the Sarayoor River. I recall this, as I was totally submerged into the sinful way of life right from the beginning. That was how strongly I believed in the Hindu philosophy.

    After this incident I was doing the research work in my university library. The research topic that I had taken for my thesis was “How will man go to the kingdom of God after his death?” How will a man reach the Brahma patha or Sivan Narayan Patha or how can we go to the kingdom of God. While I was going through many books in the library, a very old sanyasi came to the library and called out to me. He was having a long beard and very long hair. He was wearing only an ordinary dhoti. He called me out, and giving me a small piece of paper he walked out. I did not know who he was or where he came from. After he left I looked at the small piece of paper and on it was written the verse from John chapter 3 verse 16. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, for whosoever believeth should not perish but shall have everlasting life”. The more I read this scripture the more it began to inspire me in the very depth of my heart. My dear brothers and sisters why did this particular scripture inspire me so much? The word of God says in John, chapter 1 that the word of God consists of life. I went to all my gurujis and asked them who is this begotten son. All they could tell me was that the begotten son is Krishna Paramatma and Rama Paramatma etc etc but nobody told me that Jesus is the only begotten son. For one month I was desperately hunting for the answer. After one month, one particular morning I was sitting in my dormitory going through this piece of paper once again. Tears started to gush out my eyes to know who this begotten Son of God is. Then I heard a voice telling me to read the rigveda. Upon opening it what I read in Sanskrit was ” Santhakaram purakasayanam, pathmanabam suresham, vishwakaram…….mekavarnam….lakshikanthan…yogikirtham vandal bishnumbam, survalokayika….” which means, “The God so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son of God that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life”. When I read the bible scripture in my own Rigveda I decided that even if I die I must obey this only begotten son and that I must surrender my life to Him.

    My exams got over and after finishing my thesis I registered the same with the registrar of the university. When the result came, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ I came first in the whole of India in both my doctorates. I was invited to Delhi to be awarded the presidents Gold medal in the Indian parliament amidst all the distinguished parliamentarians. But all this did not give me any joy. Here I was born into a royal family of Nepal, with my family breeding 13 elephants and having 108 divine temples across the world where we are the chief priests, having obtained double doctorates and double gold medals from the president and yet having no peace nor joy in life. The bible says, “If a man gains the whole world and yet loses his soul what is the use?”

    There was a great vacuum in my life. I still did not know Jesus as the saviour of the world, nor as the prince of peace, nor as the redeemer of the world and in such a state I found myself making preparations to return to Tamil Nadu. I booked my ticket on the Ganga-Kaveri express. At Varnasi station I boarded the train and subsequently arrived in Madhya Pradesh. All the while I was reading John 3:16. Something told me that I should keep meditating on this verse and I did so till the train pulled into Madhya Pradesh. The railway staff went for a coffee break and at the same time I heard a voice telling me to get down at this station. I was wondering why I should do this for I did not have any relatives there. The more I refused to listen to the voice the more persistent it became. Finally I gave in and got off the train. After a few minutes the train left the station and I was left alone on the platform. Again I heard a small voice telling me to start walking. I started to walk. After walking for nearly 3 kilometers I came to a place called Baratpur. Mapier town in Jabalpur city. The moment I came to this particular spot, where there was a cement arch, I saw the same old sanyasi who had come to my college library, 800 kilometers away, coming towards me pointing his fingers at me. Putting his hand on me he said, “The Lord who you wanted to know in your life is Jesus Christ. The only begotten son whom you are seeking is Christ. He loves you and forgives your sin and he is going to cleanse you from all your sinful natures. He is going to give you a new life”. When he said all that I could not control myself. Here was a very simple man, very old and ordinary, but yet filled with the resurrected power of the Lord, preaching the gospel to me. I humbled myself and yielded to that saint.

    From there he took me to a place called Bidagarh. That is where the Narmada River flows into a very high velocity. We crossed the river and went to the other side where we could find no human beings at all. He took me into the forest and he took me inside a cave. With a great burden he knelt in the cave and opening the bible he started to preach the gospel. He told me how God created the heavens and the earth, the rivers and the seas, the plants and the animals and how he created human beings. He told me of the fall of man into sin and how the Lord Jesus Christ came into this world as the Messiah, how much He suffered on the cross at Golgotha and how he finally died. When I heard all this I could not control myself for in Hinduism there are 33 crores ( millions) gods. But none of the gods came to die for me and my sins. But here I found the Jesus came and died for my sins. Even Hinduism says very sincerely in the Samaveda, “Every man is a sinner and unless he is cleansed by the precious blood he cannot go into the kingdom of God”. But we find that no one came to shed their blood in Hinduism but we find Christ having done it. I opened my heart to the Lord and cried, “Lord I am very sorry . Lord I open my heart unto you. Lord it was for my sins that both your hands and your legs were nailed to the cross. It was for my sins that you wore the crown of thorns on your head. It was for my sins that a spear was thrust into your right ribs. Lord I am sorry and please forgive me Lord”.

    The Lord was merciful to me . As it says in the bible “He that covers his sin shall not prosper but whosoever shall confess it and forsake it shall have mercy”. Again it also says, “If you confess your sins, He is faithful and just to forgive you all your sins and cleanse you from all unrighteousness”. I did it in the presence of the Lord. I wept bitterly for all my sinful activities right from my childhood to that day. God heard my prayers for in the bible it is written in revelation chapter 3:20, “Behold I stand at your door and knock, and if any man heareth my voice, open the door. I will come to him and will sup with him and he with me”. He stands at your door and knocks. It is because when he chooses a son or a daughter for his kingdom, he has the courtesy to knock. Satan never knocks. For him a small ventilator is enough to creep in through. Lord Jesus alone can bless. That is how I came to know the Lord. After accepting Jesus as my personal saviour, He showed me many areas in my life where there was still sin and on my part I confessed and prayed and got myself cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

    I stayed for two months with the old man in the forest. Every morning we used to kneel together in the presence of the Lord for hours and pray and meditate upon the word of God. After 2 months one day he took me to the Narmada River and baptized me in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is very difficult for me to say everything that happened to me that day. As David says in the 23rd Psalm, he prepared a table for me in the presence of my enemies and he anoints my head with oil. My cup runneth over, surely goodness and mercy will follow all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. That was the assurance I got. After I received the Holy Spirit, the old man told me “Now God has brought you to Judea and then he will take you to Samaria and from there to the uttermost parts of the Earth”. He explained to me that Judea meant him, Samaria meant my hometown and community. He told me that I was to go back to my community and preach to them the gospel. I went back to Nepal.

    The moment I reached home my parents were standing outside. My father did not allow me to go inside the house. They said to me. “We sent you to get a higher education in the most famous university. You received 2 gold medals from the president of India. After all this you are returning as a poor, downtrodden, inferior untouchable caste. What happened to you?” They left me standing at the door and after asking for some Ganges water from the temple my father proceeded to give me a bath as I was defiled. He poured that water over me. Even then according to them I was still impure for only external purification had taken place and I still needed internal purification. So he sent another priest to the backyard of the house and asked him to bring a glass of cow’s urine. I was told to drink this by my father. In our family our father is very revered and in no way do we show any disrespect to him. Therefore when he commanded me to drink I had to obey. I silently received this and saying “victory in the blood of Jesus”, over and over again, I silently drank it. Only then was I allowed to enter.

    My parents were still afraid that I might sneak out and join some Christian church in Nepal, and once or twice without my father’s knowledge I did visit a faith home in Nepal. Thus my father started to give me so much work that I would always find myself to be busy. I was given lot of chores to do, even in the temple mainly cleaning and washing various idols housed there. All this I did obeying my father, always saying “Victory in the name of Jesus”. Wanting to punish me he left me behind in the temple one night.

    These temples were constructed 2000 to 3000 years ago and right from the entrance to the Mola Sarpa Graha, we had to walk not less than 3 km. The ceiling is 100 to 120 ft high and at night there are no lights as there were no electricity connections. The temple was also infested with poisonous snakes and scorpions. For many days I was not given any food nor did I have any proper clothing. But amidst all these dangers I knelt down and prayed, “Lord without your will I can never be here. I do not know for what reason you have kept me here but help me to proclaim and lift your name to these people. Lord open the door where I can proclaim the good news for David said in the scripture, “What shall I do unto the Lord who has given me the joy of salvation?” Again in the very next scripture he says,” I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving and will call upon the name of the Lord, I will pay my vows unto the Lord in the presence of all his people”. The next morning about 60 bhattacharyas came to open the temple early in the morning and doing so they came inside. I was on fire and at that moment called out to the bhattacharyas. “Come here. What does your Vedas say about God? What does Hinduism say about God? Who is true God in Hinduism? What are the characteristics of God mentioned in Hinduism? What does Hinduism say about how a man can go into the kingdom of God? Who is the true god that can bring salvation to mankind? For example Om Shri brahmaputhraye namaha- what does this mean? The only begotten son I worship thee. Who is the only begotten Son? It is the Lord Jesus Christ. Om shri Martha Namaha- the Holy Spirit of God I worship thee. Who is the Holy Spirit of God? Again it is the Lord Jesus Christ. Om shri Kannisuthayeha namaha-which means the Lord who is born to a virgin. Om vidyshtayaha Namaha- the Lord who had the circumcision I worship thee. Om shri Panchkayika namaha- the Lord who had the five injuries for the sake of mankind. Om shri vriksh shula arudayaka nama vrisha pondha marthil shulathil siluthayil baliyanavare, umbaye nan namaskarikunen. Who is the Lord who died on the cross of Calvary? All this is our Lord Jesus Christ. Our God is not a dead God. It is true that he came as a messiah to this world. He preached the gospel. He cancelled the devils and the demons. He healed the sick people ad brought salvation to so many people and finally he died on the cross of Calvary, he was buried but he did not become sand. Om Shri mrithyu nayaya namaha meaning the Lord who resurrected from the depths of the Earth on the third day I worship thee”. By the divine grace of God 13 people accepted the Saviour. Out of them 6 took baptism. Today they are strong believers. All this God did for His glory.

    Like this I was inside the temple with these people for 6 months and in the meantime the RSS people came to know about me and so did the BJP and the Shiv Sena along with a lot of other Hindu organizations. They came to Nepal and pulled me out of the temple and thrashed me mercilessly. They fractured both my hands. Today the hand you see is not the real one but an artificial one. In one hand I have 16 screws fixed in my elbow and steel plated within. They poured acid all over me and threw me into the streets. They told me that if I preach Christ anymore then they would kill me. My parents asked me to get out, as I had become a danger to their survival. I was shunned by my family, community, friend and villagers. At a total loss as to what to do then and there I knelt and prayed to the Lord and asked him what He wanted me to do. I claimed His promise where He said that in the days of your trouble I will deliver you and you will glorify me. The Lord told me that along with Judea even Samaria was over and so “Step out in My name and I will take care of you”. I asked for confirmation from the bible if God wanted me to go out for full time mission work and the scripture given to me was John chapter 1:5 “In the beginning was the word and the word was with God. All things are made by Him and with Him not anything made or was made. In Him was life and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not.” “But as many received Him to them He gave power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12). Based on this scripture I was convinced that I was truly a child of God.

    Slowly I made my way to the faith home in Nepal. There God miraculously provided me first aid and a plane ticket to the Bombay Navarathna hospital for treatment. I took complete treatment for 6 months and now I am all right. After that I went back to Nepal once again. My household did not open the door and they told me to leave. I did not do what to do with my life. There were so many denominations in Christianity like Roman Catholics, Jehovah witnesses, Marthomites etc etc. All I knew was the Father God, the Begotten Son and the Holy Spirit. After this I went into many parts of Nepal and interior villages to proclaim Christ. I was expelled from Nepal for preaching the Gospel. I went to Tibet and from there came to North India. Finally today I am in South India. Today right from Kanya Kumari in the south to Kashmir God has taken me to proclaim the good news. Other than parts of India, God took me to Sinapore, Malaysia, Hongkong, France, Sweden,Germany and Czechoslovakia. I came without anything yet I lack nothing. When I came into the ministry I did not have any money on me yet I cannot say that I have gone hungry even once. God provides me with everything that I want day by day. I am also on the RSS hit list. Ten days ago I was coming back to Tamilnadu from Rajastan and I was circled by the RDD people and I lost all my properties to them. By the grace of God I am well today.

    My dear brothers and sisters all this while you have been listening to my testimony fro the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. I request you to get a step closer to the cross of Calvary so that your life would be blessed more. I also humbly request you to uphold me in prayer because the word of God says, “He that has put his hand on the plough and withdraws is unworthy for the kingdom of God” Today you and me, we have put our hands on the plough of our Lord Jesus Christ. Come what may we must till the Christian ground to produce thirty, sixty and hundred folds of fruits for the glory of Lord Jesus Christ. Then only we can boldly say like Paul said “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith; henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge shall give me at that day: and not to me only but unto all them also that love His appearing”. Initially Paul was also torturing and persecuting Christians and the early churches.

    Then on the road to Jericho near the city of Damascus he was touched by the power of God. Right away he fell flat on the road. When he got up he was blind. God told him to go and get healed by Annaias. Annaias laid his hands upon Paul and prayed and Paul got his sight back. He understood the power of God and accepted the Lord. He committed his life to the Lord. And he came all over Asia and proclaimed the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ. He led thousands of people to the kingdom of God. That was the reason why he could say that he has fought the good fight. It is true in our cases also, dear brothers and sisters. There is a crown of life awaiting each and every one of us. In order to receive it we must run a good race and we should fight a good fight. It is not enough just accepting the Lord as our personal saviour or being baptized, nor is it enough that we receive the f=gifts of the Holy Spirit. What is your personal contribution to the church of God? How much are you contributing to the church of God? The Lord has put you in such a beautiful and affluent place, what are your commitments to the Lord? In how many ways are you robbing God in the church?

  29. shiva says:

    Many years ago I came across this site. This site was very objective in its critical of islam. The site administrator was agnostic/athiest. Now I see it has turned into a fanatic christian site going after islam. Lost its objective. I am an agnostic hindu and I see so many comments making fun of hinduism I have decided not to visit this site again. I believe all religions are created by humans. The religion of islam and christianity founded by a single individual are the most fanatical. Both founders claimed that they are the true prophets. We can see true colour of islam in what is going on around the world. Early part of last century in europe populated overwhelmingly by christians 100 million were killed in two world war. Both these abrahamic faiths show nice face to attract people. Once the people are trapped many of them fall into their traps. I am amazed that judaism, and to some extent yazidis survived amongst these two fanatical religions.

    I do not claim hinduism or buddism or any other religion is superior. But these religions did not go all over the world, wipe out native peoples, cultures and traditions and religions.

  30. Dr. Nishant says:

    Dear Ron,
    You havent even admitted the one genuine thing that i asked you to continue the debate, it seems you are not even interested in knowing how incorrect you are in your own posts. Is there not even an iota of the spirit of enquiry in you?
    Earlier, some 1 defeated you by showing that the pastor P. Satish Kumar is a fraud, Now, you send me another video with some guys credentials, well i would have seen it, but i will not, just to protest, since you didnt see all those videos i sent you otherwise you wouldnt have asked me few silly questions in your next post, as they were already answered in some of the videos. I am increasingly feeling, that like the Muslims who practice Taqiya, evangelical christians too lie (not all christians) just to convert people to their ideology. They donot even want to listen to a contrary opinion and get easily disturbed if some one criticises them. How are you going to reach truth if you arent even open to others opinion.
    Plz dont reply to the above observations.
    Since you are so adamant that i listen to you (while you dont want to hear me) send me the testimony in written format of this guy whose video you posted, if available. As i am not even going to take the effort to search for it.
    Any ways, just relax and enjoy.
    Bye

  31. Ron says:

    See how this double Phd in Sanskrit and Hindu Shastra found Jesus

    Dr Srinivas Bhattacharya is a double PHD (In Sanskrit and Hindu Shastra) from BHU, double gold medallist and former temple chief priest who became Christian. You will see him in India specially in the south and travels around the world.

  32. Ron says:

    Dear Dr Nishant,

    I have no intentions of hurting any Indian out there on the forum. My main intention is to bring people to salvation in Christ.
    I know that US did allow slavery and did a lot of mistreatment of the blacks and the Indians and they did give civil rights to the blacks late. But this is nothing to do with Christ as Christ did not teach discrimination.

    In fact Christ said 2 commandments Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. Christ further explained that neighbor means anybody even a stranger and gave a parable as an example of the Good Samaritan.

    Christ preached love and said in
    Mathew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    (This is different from what Mohamed said and did i.e. kill your enemies and instill terror in them
    Or what Ram / Krishna did i.e. fight your enemies as it your duty and if you kill them you are killing only the body which is temporal. In fact Krishna convinces Arjun to kill his cousins and relatives though Arjun did not want to kill his cousins and relatives regardless of the reason whether it was over real-estate issues or whether it was revenge for persecution/crimes against his family.

    So Jesus when compared to other Gods or religious leaders is different and sinless.

    The Manu Smriti I am referring to is already shown on the hindu website
    http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-lawsofmanu11.htm

    According to Dr Ambedkar (He wrote the Indian constitution) was very much against Manu’s laws. These are his views.

    It is mischievously propagated by Hindu scriptures that by serving the upper classes the Shudras achieve salvation. Untouchability is another appellation of slavery. No race can be raised by destroying its self-respect. So if you really want to uplift the Untouchables, you must treat them in the social order as free citizens, free to carve out their destiny.

    Some people think that religion is not essential to the society. I do not hold this view. I consider the foundations of religion are essential to the society. At the roots of Hindu social system lies a Dharma as prescribed in the Manusmriti. Such being the case I do not think it is possible to abolish the inequality in the Hindu society unless foundations of the Smriti-religion is removed and a better one laid in its place. I however, despair of Hindu society, being able to reconstruct itself on such a better foundation.

    Negatively I reject the Hindu social philosophy propounded in Bhagvad Gita, based as it is on the Triguna of Sankhya Philosophy which in my judgement is a cruel perversion of the philosophy of Kapila, and which had made the caste system of graded inequality the law of Hindu social life.

    Caste cannot be abolished by inter caste dinners or stray instances of inter caste marriages. Caste is a state of mind. It is a disease of mind. The teachings of the Hindu religion are the root cause of this disease. We practice casteism and we observe Untouchability because we are enjoined to do so by the Hindu religion. A bitter thing cannot be made sweet. The taste of anything can be changed. But poison cannot be changed into nectar.

    I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.
    I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.
    I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.

    I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality.

    The Hindu social order was based on the Four Verna system i.e. Chaturvarna Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. These varnas are designed as the different floors of the building without a stair case. This is the ladder of inequality. There is no parallel in world of such a discriminatory and cruel system of human subjugation as the Indian caste system. The caste system has the sanction of all Hindu scriptures.

    Ramayana

    In Ramayana, Ram kills Shambuka simply because he was performing tapasya (ascetic exercises) which he was not supposed to do as he was a Shudra by birth.

    Mahabharata

    In Mahabharata, Dronacharya refuses to teach archery to Eklavya, because he was not a Kshatriya by birth. When Eklavya, treating Drona as his notional guru, learns archery on his own, Drona makes him cut his right thumb as gurudakshina (gift for the teacher) so that he may not become a better archer than his favorite Kshatriya student Arjuna!

    Bhagvadgita

    The much-glorified Bhagvat-Gita, too, favors varna-vyavastha. When Arjuna refuses to fight, one of his main worries was that the war would lead to the birth of varna-sankaras or offspring from intermixing of different varnas and the consequent “downfall” of the family. On the other hand, Krishna tries to motivate Arjuna to fight by saying that it was his varna-dharma (caste-duty) to do so because he was a Kshatriya. In fact, Krishna goes to the extent of claiming that the four varnas were created by him only.

    http://www.ambedkar.org/impdocs/22Vows.htm
    http://www.ambedkartimes.com/hari_narke.htm

    So the very act of killing humans (murder or manslaughter) was performed by Ram, Krishna, Mohamed, Ali etc. and never by Jesus.

    Once you are in a cult of hate you will find it difficult to come out. You will find every reason to justify the hate and rhetoric in it. But you can still come out of this hate the way Dr Srinivas Bhattacharya came out

    We can only pray that Christ will himself that He is the way, truth and life.

    Meanwhile try the prayer mentioned at the end of the earlier post

  33. Dr Nishant says:

    Dear Ron,
    I am a Rig vedic Brahmin by birth, hence i know these scriptures very well and what each has a significance of. I have also read the bible and lot of other books. My debate is qualified not on basis of ignorance or to show my supremacy, but on my experiences and nature of enquiry. Since you are so fond of manusmriti why dont you first read the vedas and the upanishads as this is the basic qualification required to study the dharma shastras or the laws. There are close to 300 smritis or dharma shastras (laws) out of which manusmriti is one. Indeed Manu is the name of first rishi(rishi actually has meaning closer to scientist) indians sages say the earliest text was written 5000 BCE while western scholars have placed it at 1250 BCE. Manu smriti is manav shastra or human laws to be written by scholarly humans , so they are not subjected to rigors of authentications like vedas whose words and even the phonetics(sounds) of words have to be reproduced exactly the way they were originally recited by the rishis so there are many different manusmritis in various different places in india. So which are you refering to? There have been thousands of manus, generation after generation, writing the manusmritis. Now as i said there are close to 300 dharmashastras (jurisprudence texts) so which one who follows and how we determine it ?
    the earlier verses of manusmriti clearly define how it has to be read, since each manu wrote smriri according to the times he was born in.
    So how it is to be read? Manu says”every thing pertaining to dharma should stand the test of Veda and logic” (Manusmriti 12/106), the sanskrit words “tark anusandate” have very poigant meaning, it means if it is appreciated by your own logic and sensibility only then you accept a sutra. Also the verse says that in case of contradiction or doubt vedas form the primacy along with logic and reasoning. There are thousands of books which are present with brahmins pertaining to dharmashastras which arent even translated to english, as brahmins refuse to divulge the details of several texts. But none of these books can have any supremacy over the vedas and the earliest upanishads as they have the primacy and these books are available in public domain.
    Indeed even the rig veda says that it is the DUTY of every researcher of truth to question and reason and meditate with every verse of veda itself!!!
    Ok, now research how britishers brought only and only the manusmriti to judge between various hindus as part of their divide and rule policy.
    Now few basics of caste system and what is the varna system and whats the difference between 2, i m no teacher so plz read books written by various authors on this difference 1 amongst whom is Mahatma Gandhi.
    The brahmins were kind of nobles and they kept all these texts away from the masses, but which nobility or royalty in the world has not been selfish. Yet i say with evidence that what cruelty historically has happened in the west, is much much more brutal than what has happened by hindus in india.
    Consider this as well, Most of the Parliamentarians in the first parliament, including the 1st Prime minister and 1st President of India were upper caste hindus(brahmins) Yet a dalit(lowest caste hindu) wrote the constitution. These dalits have also been the President of India, Chief ministers of several states, several other powerful ministeries, top positions in bureaucracy etc. It is only recently that USA has had its 1st black president. Equal rights to all citizens irrespective of caste, creed and religion have been guaranteed since the inception of british free india, that is since 1947, Equal rights to blacks were given in USA only in 1964 amidst severe protests, no such protest occured in India on giving equal rights to dalits. Blacks still form the lowest socio economic strata yet affirmative action has been lifted in most of the states. Affirmative action in India is much stronger and is enforced with compulsory Reservation of 50% in education, in jobs, promotions, even in parliament there is reservation for Members of ‘lower castes’. So plz dont point fingures at others
    Few words on vedas, Rig veda: The text is a collection of 1,028 hymns and 10,600 verses, organized into ten books (Mandalas).It was written at about 2000 BCE by western scholarly estimates. Vedic and hindu scholars give much earlier date, but lets stick to western opinion as you could get a measure. Now there are 4 vedas and rig veda isnt the largest. So get a measure of the vast literature of the ancient, yet every word of it is pronounced as it is, like it was then. along with the respective commentaries and on addition of upanishads and their commentaries the volume becomes huge. Indeed there are also several summaries for the benefit of common man, 1 of which is bhagwat gita. These vedas address the entire universe and are for the beneficience of all living beings, including plants and animals and are not meant for any person or religion. This is clearly mentioned and elabroated in yajur vedas. Thus hinduism, buddhism etc are religions who alrhough base their precepts on vedantas and vedas, the vedic texts are not meant for them only but to all of the ‘vasudev kutambakam’ (The whole world is a single family, with each one intimately related to another, there is no parralel word in english for this)au have mentioned in previous posts is only highly motivated, with mis information and blatant lies. I can refute you sentence by sentence and vehemently, but to what purpose? You didnt even admit the only thing that is necessary for a spiritual discussion. You simply copy pasted stuff from net. You have know understanding of anything you talked about. Even on the net if you type for the refutations of your words even then you will find many tonnes the links which have exactly the opposite meaning of what you say. Every single sentence of yours is refutable, and i can even do that without referring to the internet on my own basis and reasoning. I can go on and on steryotyping americans and if i wish so, i will find hundreds of videos against catholicism, the church, its sexual perversities, misogyny, hatred towards homosexuals, opposition to abortion and so on and on. I can post hundreds of videos against white supremacists, racist hatred, killings on basis of colour, race, ethnicity, your love for guns and how many lakhs have died for american love of guns, videos of persecution of blacks etc. I can post hundreds of videos of people around the globe who talk about anerican hegemony, how americans are responsible for lakhs of innocent deaths globally. If i take history, i can copy paste volumes of historical persecutions by white christian supremacists like near total annhilation of native Indians to barbaric torture of the black slaves. Where in India is slavery practiced?
    You donot understand buddha, you cannot even fathom that words such as compassion, love, non violence are not just terminologies used in ethics and morality but are actual realities, actual universal laws which have to be experienced by penance on the path of righteousness , devotion or in deepest states of meditation. You say buddha is an escapist? Even common sense refutes your claim. Because how can suffering be transcended without even embracing it?
    You have used vilest terms to attribute to various hindu deities. Good. Its like bending your neck backwards, watching the sun and then spitting on it. But the eternal law of gravity will only make your spit fall on your own face.
    You mentioned Krishna asked to murder the kith and kin… well even this hero had several reasons for what he did. Infact the entire epic of Mahabharata and Bhagwad gita were only written to make understand the mankind how to use qualified intelligience to distinguish between good and bad, truth from false, and right from wrong for this is essential as one bad may appwar to be good, false may appear true and wrong may be justified by right. And just for this purpose, these books were written to explain how even the death of your own maybe the right path in the universal scheme of things. Krishna says that he takes the form of whichever deity, stone , or natural phenomenon you worship and by whichever name you worship, he himself delivers unto the devotee. Even though he is all powerfull and almighty he is humble, treats a mere mortal like arjuna as his friend and serves arjuna as the driver. He is neither high handed nor is he condescending, he uses reason and logic to make understand a point and is extremely patient inspite of arjunas repeated questions. So, even if you worship jesus, if you are on (dharma) righteous path, the eternal krishna will deliver you and even if you are not he will guide you as all the names are his as he resides in everyones heart. To continue in your tempo, lets say you disagree with this entire paragraph and you disagree with all the reasons given in mahabharata and bhagwad gita yet you will have to agree that all these avatars were not at all whimsical and elaborate each action they ever did unlike The Christian god not just in old testament but also in the new is whimsical and drunk with power.
    Understand this, as per sanatan dharma, it isnt your god or my god or a donkeys god. God is eternal and is the same for us all.
    It is very easy to decipher whats the truth and whats the false in the bible, if your intentions attitudes are in the spirit of enquiry. I didnt go into the details of cruelty, injustice, whimsical nature etc of god and the likes in bible, because whats the point?
    Jesus is a lovely person, and the whole debate of him being historically real or false is absurd. For even if he was real, what good are his teachings to walk on the path of righteousness with love (dharma) is not followed. And even if suppose he was not historically real and you follow the right path steadfastly believing the historicity of jesus you will reach salvation for this is an eternal law (dharma). For god cannot be partial, nor can any blame be attributed to him. You said christ is the way, the truth and life, and no one reaches god except through him. I say if 1 follows the true way of life ( dharma, the path of righteousness) 1 will achieve perfection and hence to god, and if you say Christ is the personification of perfection, then definitely one goes to god through him.
    Of the after life the bible says “there shall be time, no more” this is translated in accurately by several versions of bible as to mean that it is eternal. I read it as being in the present, as if you are sad, you are in the past… if you are worriwd, you are in the future, but if you are in joyous peace this can happen only in the present. That is the verse means ‘ you are eternally present’ and you realise this fully, so now there is no event or circumstance in the universe which can take you away from your joyous peace. No matter what happens there could never be any sadness, sorrow or despair nor can their be any worry whatsoever, now this truly is heaven. Thats why postponing truth to an after death event in the future is absurd, as god is eternally present and so are we .
    This reply is long. yet this is not the response that i would like to give you. I would give you a line by line reply to your earlier posts, refuting every sentence you made.
    For this you have to admit that you want me to explain what your errors in thought are for the sole reason that you want to improve in perfection, and be a better human being, for this is the only reason why i would continue this debate.
    May you find Jesus in life.

    Bye

  34. Ron says:

    Another video of extreme persecution

    If you have been unknowingly buying this hatred mentality that Christians are forcefully converting then now is the time to change.
    Read the book of John and just say these below words to yourself.

    “God my Creator, reveal yourself to me and show me the right path and come to me in dreams and visions within 7 days and if you do not then I will continue on my path of supporting the beliefs that Christian missionaries are converting naive and poor people (in India) to follow Christ and they missionaries and new converts deserve to be persecuted or at least stopped even violently for these outrageous acts of conversion ”
    I can understand if you are averse to reading the book of John then just say the above words twice a day without reading John for 7 days.

    If you do not receive any response from God (i.e. Christ and the Holy Spirit and/or through an unexpected source i.e. friend, relation, stranger, event, media etc.) within 7 days then continue with your beliefs, but if you do receive then choose Christ and follow his path.

    If you have compassion then STOP this persecution but if you hate Christianity then you will not feel any difference but you may even enjoy the below video

    Christians are a soft target as they don’t retaliate with violence but suffer and pray as they follow Jesus unlike Muslims who retaliate with rioting and bombing as they follow Mohammed.

  35. Ron says:

    Dear Dr Nishant and others,

    Answer these questions as you are believing a big lie that Christian conversions in India and elsewhere are due to bribing new converts.

    Forced conversions are not true and never happen. Will you convert if you were offer $500 or even $5000 to you?
    Most probably not. Even if you do out of sake of necessity, you will only practice it for a short time and abandon it. Real conversion comes when you convert and not change even at the risk of life.

    What makes you think that all these new converts to Christianity are doing because they have been bribed?

    They have more to lose than gain when they convert. They are ostracized, cursed, beaten, jailed, lose their homes land, jobs, livelihood and get killed ( them and their families).

    They are not bribed to convert and even if they are bribed to convert what gain does the missionary get?
    The missionary does not get anything but again he is also subject to being ostracized, cursed, beaten, jailed, lose their homes ,land, and get killed ( them and their families)?
    Are missionaries so naïve and silly that they would they would spread the word of Christ I return for dangers mentioned above?

    A missionary is essentially interested in saving souls for Christ as he bears a burden for their souls. He know that redemption through Christ is the way for salvation.

    You are knowingly or unknowingly buying into the hatred mentality of the Hindutva Taliban when you believe that conversions are happening because of money given to new converts.

    If you have been unknowingly buying this hatred mentality then now is the time to change.
    Read the book of John and just say these below words to yourself.

    “God my Creator, reveal yourself to me and show me the right path and come to me in dreams and visions within 7 days and if you do not then I will continue on my path of supporting the beliefs that Christian missionaries are converting naive and poor people (in India) to follow Christ and they missionaries and new converts deserve to be persecuted or at least stopped even violently for these outrageous acts of conversion ”
    I can understand if you are averse to reading the book of John then just say the above words twice a day without reading John for 7 days.

    If you do not receive any response from God (i.e. Christ and the Holy Spirit and/or through an unexpected source i.e. friend, relation, stranger, event, media etc.) within 7 days then continue with your beliefs, but if you do receive then choose Christ and follow his path.

    If you have compassion then stop this persecution but if you hate Christianity then you will not feel any difference but you may even enjoy the below video

    Christians are a soft target as they don’t retaliate with violence but suffer and pray as they follow Jesus unlike Muslims who retaliate with rioting and bombing as they follow Mohamed.

  36. Ron says:

    Jesus among other Gods

    Dear Dr Nishant,

    If you ever have a doubt about Manus laws please check them out from a Hindu website below
    http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-lawsofmanu11.htm

    I got the global slavery index from here
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Slavery_Index

    As a Westerner and Christian, I do support helping the refugees (regardless whether they are Muslim, Hindu, Buddhists, Atheists, Yazidis, Animists) etc. because they are humans and not wild animals. But I do believe they should be vetted properly, specially the men so that we don’t get criminals into the country.
    Once they are safe they should be given the opportunity to know more about Jesus as their personal saviour. Accepting or rejecting Christ is their choice.

    Recently the Nepal’s elected representatives adopted a secular constitution (they are no longer a Hindu state) which was accepted by overwhelming majority of the parties despite pressure from India’s Hindu Government. Feeling sidelined the Hindi speaking population of Nepal along the main two transit points to India choked the supplies.
    According to Al-Jazeera and BBC the blockade was engineered and supported by India to pressure this land-locked country to amend the draft so as to include the saffron agenda. What heartless Hinduism or politics is this?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34500363

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34387990

    A country hit by a devastating earthquake and now reeling under shortage of fuel and essential supplies caused by blockades supported by a neighbouring Hindu government of India despite old, sick, women and children suffering due to lack of essential supplies. You will never feel compassion without Christ in you.

    I think the Western nations are doing better job, they are helping refugees who are coming without invitation as they are in trouble.

    I would suggest read the Bible (the book of John). I believe you are sincerely searching for the truth but are born into a particular belief and find it difficult to question it and believe there cannot be truth outside it. I had lot of questions and doubts probably more than you before accepting Christ.

    Please watch this video
    Jesus among other Gods -Ravi

  37. Dr Nishant says:

    P.S. i admit that i do participate in the debates with the purpose of improving myself, and even though i try, sometimes i am egoistic and want others to accept my beliefs without questioning. You see i am not the emobodiment of perfection, so kindly accept my appologies.

  38. Dr Nishant says:

    Dear A. H.
    Please dont mention it, i do what i can.
    Dear Ron,
    I am not sure if i should laugh at your replies, for they are totally based on mis information and absolute lies. The purpose of my visiting the anti islam sites, be it indian or western is just to prevent muslim invasion and isnt directed at any religion except islam. I am not an evangelist like you, as there isnt even a concept of that term within me. Its not because of sanatan dharmas precepts but even without that, for it is absurd. So what do i gain explaining you your errors at all? Except you admit that you want me to explain what your errors in thought are for the sole reason that you want to improve in perfection, and be a better human being(it doesnt mean that i am a better human being than you) and its not just an ego game. It also doesnt mean that you accept i am right and you are wrong, but admitting the above will provide me with a good enough reason to continue the debate. As i donot wish to convert you to my beliefs or to disturb your peace.
    Ponder over these thoughts for a while before replying.
    I mean no disrespect.
    Thanks for sharing your views.

  39. Ron says:

    Dear Dr Nishant,

    You said that Hinduism preaches equality of all human beings.
    Well look at the proof below which shows your statement to be untrue.

    According to blacks visiting India they say that they faced racism and insults more in India than anywhere else in the world. They feel safer in the west and far-east than in India.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article/india-is-racist-and-happy-about-it/250317

    http://www.firstpost.com/india/like-disease-citizens-african-nations-talk-racism-face-india-2249316.html

    In terms of Global Slavery Index (India ranks 5th in the world just ahead i.e. worse) of Pakistan which is number 6. This is because of the caste system, still practised today in India against the low castes and minorities.

    The world’s largest practised apartheid system (caste system and untouchability) is in India and is still in practised a lot by Hindus in India. I have visited many temples, mosques, gurudwaras and other places in the Indian subcontinent and have personally seen the severe discrimination meted out to the people of the lower castes.

    As a Tourist, I did get better treatment because I was paying more than they asked and though I was restricted from many places, I always met some religious touts who demanded extra money for special privileges of entry. Slavery/bonded labour is outlawed in the whole world but still exists in Sub-Saharan Africa and parts of rural India. Also these are Manu’s laws which are HIndu and are evidently discriminatory

    Manu Smriti 11:67. For a Brahmin killing of women, Shudras and other castes is a small offence. Also stealing grain, metals, cattle is a small offence . Also having sex with other women who drink alcohol and atheism is a small offence. For all the above you will only lose caste as the offence is small.

    Manu Smriti 5:154. Men may be lacking virtue, be sexual perverts, immoral and devoid of any good qualities, and yet women must constantly worship and serve their husbands.

    Manu Smriti 2:215. Wise people should avoid sitting alone with one’s mother, daughter or sister. Since carnal desire is always strong, it can lead to temptation. (This was not obeyed by Brahma –creator and wise God who married his own daughter Sarasvati. Did god Brahma know the law or not?)

    Higher caste men can have sex with lower caste women but not vice -versa
    But Lower caste men to be KILLED for the same offence of having sex with higher caste women

    Manu Smriti 8:366. In case a man from a lower caste enjoys sex with a woman from a higher caste, the person in question is to be awarded the death sentence. And if a person satisfies his carnal desire with women of his own caste, he should be asked to pay compensation to the women’s faith.

    Vedas are supposed to have knowledge but only the Brahmin can learn

    Manu Smriti 2: 113. A Brahmin must not teach the Shudra and woman even if he dies with his knowledge without imparting it to anybody.

    Manu Smriti 2:116 On the other hand, if anyone studies the Vedas on his own he or she will go straight to hell.

    (Here Hindu god Ram kills Shambhuyka a Shudhra man for learning the Vedas as mentioned in the Ramayana. Did this god Rama not know that killing is wrong or did he know that Manu was right?)

    The above negates your position that Hinduism teaches all humans are equal. In facts racism (casteism) is systemic in Hinduism starting right from the Hindu Gods practicing it and creating it , Manu and the other Rishis institutionalizing, advocating and promulgating it.

    If you need I can give you a whole list of Manus law.

    In fact Hinduism is the one of the religion in which you persecute and discriminate against its own adherents. i.e. Brahmins against Shudras etc. The pecking order is Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishnava, Shudras.
    You may find Protestants Christians may discriminate against Catholics and vice versa (i.e. on sect against another sect). But you don’t find Catholic discriminating/persecuting Catholics.

    I was exhorted to search about Hindu Scriptures, its gods and their lives and crimes/felonies and discovered on forums a Pandora’s box of Hindu gods indulging in debauchery, selfishness, felonies, pornography, prostitution, serial rape, bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, homosexuality, murder, kidnap, ransom, fornication, patricide, matricide, incest, theft, serial killings. This was done by Hindu gods sometimes against other gods in the pantheon, against their own kin, against other innocents, humans, against animals etc. How can they be role models?

    According to sources on the net if you take the pick of any Hindu god/deities from the whole pantheon of Hindu gods and goddesses (Rama, Krishna, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, Indra, Ganpaty etc. and more included) and if you carefully search the authentic Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Manu Smriti, Gita, Mahabharata, Ramayana you will find mother lode of felonies mentioned above, committed by that deity clearly documented. Fortunately they are on the web for all to see.

    There are many sites detailing the felonies/crimes committed by the Hindu gods, I have included one below.
    http://nastikasmission.blogspot.ca/2011/01/exposing-hinduism.html

    This Manu Smriti is clearly an apartheid document condoning or advocating rape, murder, bestiality, theft, pedophilia, generational slavery, felonies, larceny, debauchery, fornication, when committed by a Brahman against another lower caste member. They are supposed to be celestial laws approved by supreme pantheon of gods.

    No other faith comes near to doing good to mankind than what Christianity does.

    Mohamed said for establishing peace, you have to kill people .

    Buddha said for establishing peace, run away from people/world.

    Rama/Krishna said for establishing peace, do your duty and kill your kin.

    Christ said for establishing peace, follow me, love your enemies, bless them and forgive them.
    (Jesus is sinless and his teaching is incomparable and is of the highest level ever written.)

    Seek Christ and you will find peace and you will not have eve a bit of hatred for any human being whether he is Muslim, pagan, Hindu, atheist, Buddhist etc. When you pass by a panhandler or beggar or homeless person of any faith then you will still feel pangs of compassion to help them.

    If you still bear any hatred (which cannot be justified in any way) towards another human being then be sure that it is because you have not received Christ and following him. He is the only answer.

    May the peace of Christ be with you and everyone on the forum.

    Please see this video of Dr Subodh Pandit who searched through scriptures of all religions, denied Christ and then found Christ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0yIljyu9K8&¬list=PLADA90FCF20A839A1&index=1

  40. Ron says:

    Persecution of Christians in India

    Dear Dr Nishant,

    You said that India does not persecute Christians but please read on and your denial does not change the truth that India does persecute Christians though there is freedom of religions (but you cannot change faith from HInduism to another religion without permission from authorities. Though you can change from Muslim, Christian and Buddhist to Hindu without permission).

    Christianity in India is around 2 to 3% and is increasing only after independence and never had a spike during the British rule. Christianity came to India via St Thomas and he was martyred over there. In fact the southern state of Kerala has significant number of Christian even now.
    Contrary to RSS beliefs the initial converts to Christianity in India were not tribal or the uneducated and poor but they were mostly the educated Hindu priests who saw Christ in their own scriptures and educated Muslims who saw the healing power of Christ etc. The later converts were from all secions including the poor and the lower castes.
    The British and the French in India did not force Christianity otherwise you would have seen that Christianity would not remain 2% in British India unlike Portugal which actively supported it and so Christianity grew to more than 50% in Portuguese enclaves of Goa.

    Christianity has primarily grown out of love and compassion to the needy which is practiced by many missionaries. They have left a better lifestyle in their homes and gone to places where their lives are at risk.
    They offered love, hope, salvation and service to the needy in Christ and in return they have been martyred, injured, maimed and beaten and in some cases burned alive in India.

    Missionaries have established leper and destitute homes and have lived among lepers, Aids victims and the downtrodden and brought hope, love, peace and salvation even as their (missionaries) lives were endangered by disease and Hindu fanatics.
    Christianity historically has grown in persecution and with the rise in persecution in India it will only grow and accelerate. In Russia you will find Christianity growing rapidly. Similarly in China, Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Indonesia, India etc.
    India is listed 21 among the countries persecuting Christians. India is considered worse than China. Malaysia, Egypt, Indonesia, Bangladesh but of course better than Pakistan and Afghanistan in Persecution of Christians who are a soft target unlike the Muslims who hit back with rioting and bombings.
    This list made by opendoorsusa is shown here

    https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/

    Christian Persecution
    World Watch List
    1. North Korea Score: 92/100
    2. Somalia Score: 90/100
    3. Iraq Score: 86/100
    4. Syria Score: 83/100
    5. Afghanistan Score: 81/100
    6. Sudan Score: 80/100
    7. Iran Score: 80/100
    8. Pakistan Score: 79/100
    9. Eritrea Score: 79/100
    10. Nigeria Score: 78/100
    11. Maldives Score: 78/100
    12. Saudi Arabia Score: 77/100
    13. Libya Score: 76/100
    14. Yemen Score: 76/100
    15. Uzbekistan Score: 69/100
    16. Vietnam Score: 68/100
    17. Central African Republic Score: 67/100
    18. Qatar Score: 64/100
    19. Kenya Score: 63/100
    20. Turkmenistan Score: 63/100
    —-
    21. India Score: 62/100
    —-
    22. Ethiopia Score: 61/100
    23. Egypt Score: 61/100
    24. Djibouti Score: 60/100
    25. Myanmar Score: 60/100
    26. Palestinian Territories Score: 58/100
    27. Brunei Score: 58/100
    28. Laos Score: 58/100
    29. China Score: 57/100
    30. Jordan Score: 56/100
    31. Bhutan Score: 56/100
    32. Comoros Score: 56/100
    33. Tanzania Score: 56/100
    34. Algeria Score: 55/100
    35. Colombia Score: 55/100
    36. Tunisia Score: 55/100
    37. Malaysia Score: 55/100
    38. Mexico Score: 55/100
    39. Oman Score: 55/100
    40. Mali Score: 52/100
    41. Turkey Score: 52/100
    42. Kazakhstan Score: 51/100
    43. Bangladesh Score: 51/100
    44. Sri Lanka Score: 51/100
    45. Tajikistan Score: 50/100
    46. Azerbaijan Score: 50/100
    47. Indonesia Score: 50/100
    48. Mauritania Score: 50/100
    49. United Arab Emirates Score: 49/100
    50. Kuwait Score: 49/100

    Again Statista (which uses statistics from all sources) show the similar result
    http://www.statista.com/statistics/271002/persecution-of-christians-worldwide/

    Look at this video below if you have Christ in you then you will feel compassion but if you don’t have then you will be in denial.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK6mSFIKrek

    Christ is the way, truth and life

  41. A.H. says:

    @Dr Nishant,

    Very insightful story. Thank you.

  42. Dr Nishant says:

    Dear Ron,
    “India WITHIN 52 DAYS in a anti-Christian nation (India) where Christians are being persecuted in many areas and hatred towards them is not discouraged by the ruling government”
    Well, this is not accurate. You seem to be an evangelical christian, for you are so keen on converting others. Consider few facts.
    Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world still practiced. There is no concept of conversion, apostacy, evangelism in hinduism, infact there are no words in indian languages which accurately parallel these concepts. For thousands of years, hindus have converted to buddhism, jainism and reconverted back with ease. This was as usual totally peaceful except after Emperor Ashoka, who made buddhism evangelical and few successors of his spoiled the atmosphere. But, before that and after that till muslims raised india religious conversion was an individual choice. No Hindu scripture says anything about the concepts i mentioned. Even Lord Gautam Buddha only asked to preach his teachings. You see Hinduism doesnt even exist really as a religion for it is the way of life.
    The term ‘hindu’ is not even indian word.The real name is ‘aryavrat’ now also called sanatan dharma. some say persians called the inhabitants of the the banks of Sindhu (indus) river hence the name. But actually, i think hindu was a term given by muslims to identify local population to collect Jizya. This is based on several evidences, 1 of which is that the persian and arabic meaning of the word ‘Hindu’ is a ‘dog’, a ‘slave’, ‘low life,’ ‘dark’ and many such vile terms. Most dont know this and few like me dont care much for its just a name.
    With the advent of islamic invasion of india, many things changed. The open society became more conservative especially to the prolesytising muslims whose concepts of god and reality were alien to hindus. Inspite of islam being in india for more than 1200 years the population percentage of hinduism and other dharmic faiths including sikhism is 80%.
    Dharma has no parallel word in abrahamic religions. It doesnt mean religion. Dharma is the intrinsic nature of the soul, it is the eternal law of the cosmos, inherent in the very nature of things. So the concepts like adam and eve, god and his son and the material nature of heavens is alien to hindus. Terms such as Love, non violence, compassion, humility, knowledge, enlightenment (its totally different meaning from the abrahamic concept) and the different ways to attain divinity are the main goals and not the conversion of people to its ideology.
    Indeed as Dharma is intrinsic to every soul, so is divinity. Thats why hindus see god in every human, every animal, plant and every form of nature. It is because of this that a hindu can say with certainity that a person will reach heaven and hell irrespective of what 1 believes in. That is, if you are righteous and loving and kind and you donot believe in or know anything about sanatan dharma, you will achieve enlightenment or heaven whichever you qualify for. And thats why a hindu says that 1 who just believes in hindu gods but is not righteous will land up in hellish circumstances. The concept that you can reach god only through jesus is alien to them, for it is against dharma. To have to pay for the original sin of adam and eve by their supposed children thousands of years later, doesnt make sense. Do those people who died before Jesus or moses or lets say tribes such as ‘Jarawa’ in andaman islands who have/had no concept of abrahamic religion go to hell or heaven. Or the concept that the pure immaculate son of god pays for the sins of others(however nobler his intentions maybe), while others just play lip service to him in church, doesnt make sense. the concept of eternal damnation of sinful souls is antithesis of the concept of the merciful god, thats why all the mythological villains in the later scriptures suffered for only a particular period (although they were long periods) and later were reborn to be enlightened. Also the concept that satan was evil while god was good doesnt make any sense, as god is all powerfull and satan cannot have power to do anything to any living being without gods permission. If Satan has known god and still he goes against him, so what is the guarantee that any soul in heaven will not go against god, for the hindus believe that just knowing the lord is eternal liberation. Obedience is another concept which comes only in ethical texts on hinduism but not in vedas upanishads or gita, in the sense which is meant in the abrahamic religions. In fact it is clearly written in several primary hindu texts that one must contemplate, question, reason and meditate on every verse, for that is the only way to fully comprehend the text and not just understand its literal meaning. That is also the reason why the pathways of the ‘nastik’ (atheist) sects are also sanctified as the ways to reach god as long as one is striving to know the real truth.
    The Hindus like all dharmic religions including believe that all humans are already perfect beings. Its just that they are covered with layers of ignorance born out of good or bad actions. Good actions may lead you to heavenly planets or better human life but you have to eventually come back to earth till such time that you become enlightened and free from all delusions and know the reality so that you may know your eternal self which is satchitanand, that is truth consciousness bliss. In that state you live eternally. So, what you believe or I believe is irrelevant but what is reality is what we want to know and hindus believe that everyone is in search for that reality only in his own way. So the abrahamic religions are alien to hindus. However several gurus and saints have qualified christ as being enlightened. For instance the statement in bible that ‘God is love’ not that god is loving, or god loves you but ‘God is love’ makes sense to hindus. Also when describing afterlife revelation states that” There will be no more night, They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them lights” is very similar to what hindu texts describe. Also in afterlife “there shall be time no more” also is very similar to the hindu texts. After the religuous persecution of hindus came the british who looted the country and brought missionaries. Due to this a religion called sikhism was born out of hinduism which was millitant in nature developed only for the annhilation of muslims in the begining. Along side it, hindu right wing started developing. But none of the religious groupings have been even nearly as brutal, barbaric as the muslims and the british christians.However now these right wing groups have turned evangelical and these idiots have adopted the missionary ways of christians and muslims, contrary to their own precepts.
    The other point is, missionaries convert very poor people taking advantage of their poverty and viknerability.While hinduism preaches equality of all human beings. Christians are supremacists. So much so that Mother Teressa once refused a poor child to be given for adoption to a good rich hindu family, for she said the child was raised as a christian. The point is, such things create friction.
    Your claim that india is anti christian is wrong. For my best friends are a christian, one of whom married a hindu. There is no discrimination whatsoever. Many Christians come to temples and celebrate diwali and other festivals. Christmas is celebrated with as much zeal and enthusiasm as in christian countries.My Guide was a zoorashtrian and co-guide was a christian. The christians overwhelmingly vote for the BJP govt (who u described anti christian) especially in western india. Goa which has a large population of christians repeatedly elects this govt.
    Nepal is another country which has 95% hindus yet they have now chosen a secular constitution. This is contrary to what happened in Malaysia as you know it.
    So Dear Ron, as in hindu sects, i truly believe that god is within you as much as in myself and we are all striving to realise him. Indeed lot of people have got their minds polluted due to the hate perpetrated by the organised(priestly) parts of the religion. specificaly with the advent of islam, a few groups in all the countries are getting islamasised, in the sense that to oppose islam even though they may be non non islamic, they do try to immitate the islamists by hatred. This is the sadest part.
    Since you have shared so many videos, just check out the following. These are by western christians on hinduism and why they converted to hinduism from christianity. I could post 100s of videos of indian christian converts, but i havent deliberately not done so, because whats in a name, your or mine ‘salvation’ isnt dependent on the identity of our religions.
    https://youtu.be/xBQVZd6tsPM

    https://youtu.be/sY6EbisJBHY

    https://youtu.be/DIz76QKUtME

    https://youtu.be/jYLGauV7XEE

    https://youtu.be/EyIhllTz_Fo

    https://youtu.be/hi3ZI7RMaI4

    https://youtu.be/m7iHpnPqbLo

    https://youtu.be/Way1zZVKq4k

    Also watch this guy, who was a muslim cleric (mullah, imam) who knows quran by heart and knows the hadiths very well, 26 yrs ago converted to hinduism after reading the vedic texts. Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya learned sanskrit and hindu scriptures as well and has single handedly converted more than 15,000 muslims back to hinduism as well. He is interesting fellow, for he contradicts every verse of quran and not just the controversial ones. He like several other pandits, has openly on public tv channels and news papers challenged zakir naik to debate or get converted to hinduism. But zakir naik didnt respond. However the guru/teacher of zakir naik, Maullana Abdul Tariq did the folly of challenging him in a public debate. Public debates are common place between different dharmic religions and sects in rural india, as this has been an ancient teadition. I could only find this video which has english sub titles of mahendra pal arya. But he is interesting for he quotes verses after verses from quran verbatim in arabic, translates them in hindi for the audience, then he presents his counter arguments by quoting sanskrit texts, adding his reasoning and translating sanskrit in hindi for the audience. This guy has been abandoned by his muslim family, yet he strives hard to convert Muslims as he believes islam is an evil ideology and its his duty to save the muslims. He has been threatened several times by the muslims, but his audacity to challenge muslim clerics publicly is really courageous. He has become recently famous in mainstream media, yet he is a man of simple means.

    https://youtu.be/cl5Mhl9Axjs

    P.S. i do appologise Ron, for if i have inadverently hurt you.

  43. Ron says:

    Also please take time and watch this with an open mind.

  44. fakeman says:

    welome bro

  45. Ron says:

    She turned to Christ and now does healing on the street free in the name of Jesus.
    Earlier she had an established Reiki practice for healing and charged money.

    Very remarkable story… watch

  46. Anand Sagar says:

    Ali Sina, Madfijian and all others here, please read Neale Donald Walsch’s “Conversation with God” book 1, book 2 & book 3 and also his other books “Home with God”, “Friendship with God”, “Communion with God”. You will definitely gain more insights into spirituality and metaphysics.

  47. Ron says:

    There is hope for haters to come to the love and saving grace of Jesus…see this story

    From Jihad to Jesus

    Lebanese Muslim who hated Christians and Jews Met Jesus

  48. Ron says:

    There are many who hate Jesus with so much intensity that they cannot even spell the name of Jesus or they even go to the extent of intentionally misspelling his name to satisfy their inborn hatred of Jesus and Christians and Christianity.

    They will camouflage this intense hatred and justify it with various reasons. Though ultimately it is obvious it is intense hatred. But the love of Christ can change anyone (e.g. Ram Babu who used to burn BIbles but now is an evangelist for Christ)

    Please watch Thomas Warren video at the end of this post and his reasons for believing in NDEs below

    “After watching over 50 NDE testimonials, here are the reasons why these NDEs are NOT brain hallucinations. See if you can explain any one of these points:

    1) Very young children have seen and met Jesus when they didn’t have a concept of who he was before they had their experience (which my own wife had!).

    2) With the experiences that include a lingering around their dead body, which many of them do (and sometimes passing through walls observing what people are doing), the NDE person will come back and tell exactly what was said by other people while they were passed away (even in other rooms) thus proving these are real out of body conscious experiences and not just a brain hallucination.

    3) The descriptions people use to describe Heaven and to describe Hell are similar, but meanwhile they do not know each other or have similar backgrounds… Thus these are 2 very real places.

    4) Atheists have Hell NDEs and people who are not Christians have Biblical NDEs. Thus the claim of “people experience what there environmental upbringing was” is torn to shreds. They experience a biblical afterlife reality instead.

    5) In these NDEs, Jesus is GOD. Ie- the Bible is the truth.

    6) My wife had an NDE when she was 5 years old and met Jesus when she didn’t know who he was, thus I KNOW what’s up!” -Tommy Warren

    “I want to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for posting this video! We need to wake the ***** up! Unity consciousness!” -Testimonial from iruleallnothing (youtube)

    “That is a very good video that everyone should see, thanks for sharing” -Testimonial from anchorsahoy (youtube)

    Summary:

    A Muslim in India, a die-hard atheist, a Buddhist from China, and a child 3 years of age. What do they all have in common? They have all died and seen Jesus Christ! Tommy Warren is a US citizen and independent researcher who has studied this universal phenomenon called “Near Death Experiences” (or “NDEs” as they’re known for short). After watching 50+ different individual testimonies of these life after death experiences and questioning his own unique witness about them (his wife), Warren makes this video to explain what he feels is the most important phenomenon of our generation.

    Near Death Experience: The Secret of Afterlife

  49. Ron says:

    here are 16 NDEs which are verifiable and show how they encountered Jesus.
    The evidence is overwhelming

  50. Ron says:

    Here is another testimony of a Hindu Brahman intelligent man coming to Christ.

    Jesus does change lives.
    Our focus should be on Jesus and follow His commands and not on mere men.

  51. why? says:

    https://www.tubeid.net/watch/download-video/WHhjNxm7zv8/bro-satish-kumar-donate-1-lakh-win-bmw-car-in-hyderabad.html

    BRO.SATISH KUMAR- DONATE 1 LAKH WIN BMW CAR IN HYDERABAD

    bro.satish kumar good idea for building the biggest church india…..donate 1 lakh and win BMW car

    Read the list below.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgyw7TaMG5mepl92GTwbnSsDvgHPYGvXG

    5. BRO.SATISH KUMAR- DONATE 1 LAKH WIN BMW CAR IN HYDERABAD
    by livemedia1000

    http://datab.us/JUuwAkz7mi8#BRO.SATISH%20KUMAR-%20DONATE%201%20LAKH%20WIN%20BMW%20CAR%20IN%20HYDERABAD

    http://www.vidinfo.org/video/14008704/brosatish-kumar-donate-1-lakh-win-bmw-car-in

    Clearly this pastor has removed the videos using copyright laws to hide his money laundering techniques from gullible audience.

  52. why? says:

    P Satish Kumar is a typical fraud fellow who teaches “prosperity gospel”….lives n lavish house with cars and stays in lavish hotels…..This is a trend of pastors in the state of India where he lives…they make up stories and make a lot of money through gullible followers. Do not believe follow the link….Typical fraudulent pastors and India is no different in attracting child molesting pastors and fraudsters that strip people out of their money…

    This is the only real miracle of jebus, bringing in frausters like himself and fooling people.

    https :// http://www.tubeid.net/watch/download-video/WHhjNxm7zv8/bro-satish-kumar-donate-1-lakh-win-bmw-car-in-hyderabad.html

    BRO.SATISH KUMAR- DONATE 1 LAKH WIN BMW CAR IN HYDERABAD
    bro.satish kumar good idea for building the biggest church india…..donate 1 lakh and win BMW car

    More miracles of jeebus…

    timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/Pastor-four-others-held-for-forcing-minor-girls-into-prostitution/articleshow/39749042.cms

    Pastor, four others held for forcing minor girls into prostitution

    CUDDALORE: Police have arrested a CSI pastor, a youth and three women on charges of forcing two minor girls into prostitution in Cuddalore district.

    The pastor and the youth were also charged of raping the minor girls.

    The arrested were identified as Aruldoss, 60, from Tittakudi, Satishkumar from Vadalur, Dhanalakshmi, Kala and Jameena from Tittakudi. Police arrested them on Tuesday night and produced them before a magistrate, who remanded them in judicial custody.

    Police said the girls, Class 7 and Class 9 dropouts, from Tittakudi went missing on July 8. Their parents lodged a complaint with the Tittakudi police on July 11.

    The police managed to trace the girls, one aged 12 years and other 14 years, by tracking the signal from their cellphone.

    They detained Satishkumar, with whom the girls spoke frequently, and rescued the girls from his custody.

    Inquiries revealed that the girls had been raped by the pastor and Sathiskumar and sold to pimps.

    Police produced the girls before a Mahila court which recorded their statements on August 4. The two victims were sent to a home after medical examinations.

    Aruldoss sexually abused the girls after luring them with gifts and presents. A local woman, a pimp, who came to know about the sexual assault, forced the girls into prostitution threatening that she would expose their links with the pastor. She allegedly confined the girls in her custody and after a week she sold them to Kala, another pimp, for Rs 5,000.

    Kala too confined the minor girls in her custody and forced them into prostitution. Later she sold the girls to Jameena for Rs 25,000. Jameena forced them into flesh trade and after 10 days, she sold them to Satishkumar for Rs 25,000.

    Police said the girls had earlier run away from their houses. When they went missing for the second time, police presumed that they had again run away.

    When an investigation team contacted the girls on their cellphone, they gave false information that they were working in a big textile showroom in Tirupur and claimed that they did not know the name of the unit. They told the investigation team that they were not allowed to go out of the unit and were offered food and accommodation.

  53. Ron says:

    Just look at this miracle.

    This non-Christian man accepted Jesus, changed his life and built the largest church in India WITHIN 52 DAYS in a anti-Christian nation (India) where Christians are being persecuted in many areas and hatred towards them is not discouraged by the ruling government.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FemZZs5CA80

    Testimony of P Sathish Kumar

  54. Debbie Woods says:

    I did the very same thing. I read many near-death experiences, and even astral projections , and found that almost all of them met with Jesus if they went that far. Even an atheist who claims demons came to get him until he started singing “Jesus Loves Me”. I also read where a Muslim in Jordon had a NDE and came back to follow Jesus because of same. Therefore, I definitely believe in Jesus and much of what the Bible tells us. Religions were brought to many different people throughout the world, much of them saying the same things. I believe the higher power (God/Jesus) definitely exists, but I believe religion was made so people could come together and worship this higher power and follow the morals of good religions. Religion is to remind us to try our best to follow good morals. If we do not go to church, or wherever, we forget to follow these good morals. I believe Islam is satan’s religion. If you read Islam’s prophecies, they are opposite of the prophecies in the Bible. They will believe the anti-Christ and the false prophet is their prophet and Jesus, because Islam believes Jesus also comes back at the end of times to judge us. Who else has the power to judge us? Only God/Jesus. Anyway, it’s just too much of a coincidence how the prophecies clash as they do. I think people also interpret the Bible wrong many times and some of it gets lost in translations. But there are so many prophecies in the Bible that have come true, I have to believe the Bible was sent from God. No one else could have possibly known all of these things would happen. Anyway, to each their own. But this is what I have discovered in my many years of investigating all of these things. I believe in the rights of everyone to come to their own conclusions and for them to respect my rights in my conclusions. But I would urge everyone to do their own investigations. You have to dig deep to get away from the propaganda/lies people have piled on top of the truth for many years. Good luck!

  55. why? says:

    A.H.
    =========================================
    In fact God did/does, that is why Saint Paul could write:

    For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
    ===========================================

    Is this even an argument AH? This is laughable. Look at the typical illogical statements from the originator of christianity itself

    How is “God’s invisible qualities” have been “clearly seen” since the creation of the world?

    If those qualities are invisible, how are they to be “clearly seen”? Paul claims from what has been made or created…ie entire creation.

    This is creationism which has been debunked already. Besides you are derailing my argument.

    My argument against Sina is that in no religion (corresponding God) ever revealed Himself personally to everybody. So why do you think every tom dik and harry should meet the ruler of Universe personally after death? The answer is that these are all hallucinations by believers and NOT real NDEs.

  56. A.H. says:

    “If God did NOT reveal himself to everybody in this world”

    In fact God did/does, that is why Saint Paul could write:

    For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

  57. why? says:

    Ali sina writes:
    ========================================================
    Most people who go to the other world and come back say they encountered Jesus. Many of these people were not believers in Jesus prior to their experience.

    So, not only the teachings of Jesus, as recorded by his disciples are good, according the NDEers he is actually the king in heaven. Apparently heaven is a kingdom, not a republic and Jesus rules supreme.
    ========================================================

    There are too many assumptions in these statements by Ali Sina to justify his beliefs and so he finds gold where there is none. Let me list some of the assumptions here.

    1. Sina believes that every NDE story experienced is genuine and that no fake stories were created by christian charlatans for conversion. There is ample evidence that church and evangelists (many of them found to be charlatans, gays, thieves lied and do lie for various reasons) are charlatans.

    Similarly there is ample evidence that every televangelist shows create non-existent NDE stories by training some bigoted christian nut jobs. One can find such NDS strories where some christian is taken by jeebus to hell where she finds Buddha, Muhammad and every other on-christian personality in hell. Clearly many fake stories are revolving around.

    youtube.com/watch?v=byig-MjT0Gk

    How can one distinguish between con-man stories and real one?

    2. What makes you assume that most NDEs see only jeebus? How can you be sure that is the case?

    Do you know every NDE experience is recorded from every part of the world? There are many in India for example most of whom do not bother to report their experiences. They never saw this jeebus at all. why?

    May be most NDE cases you have read from records are from people who are exposed to christianity. Naturally you will find such experiences. This is NOT evidence that jeebus is the ruler.

    3. Now just because jeebus appears in most stories you have read, you assume he is the ruler. Why? Let us take a simple example. Will a King meet every road side fellow or let his assistants take care of things? So why should a supreme ruler (God) meet every tom, dick and harry and reveal himself? Is it not like giving pearls to undeserving people?

    Wasn’t jeebus himself selective in his selection of disciples?

    Jeebus didn’nt make everyone disciple. So why you think real God would reveal himself to every tom dick and harry?

    No religion in the world says that enlightenment is achieved by everybody (Buddha in Buddhism and his Bodhisattvas). It s given/attained to/by a select few.

    Similarly no religion says, that God revealed Himself to every tom dick and harry. He revealed Himself to select few, like Rishis (in Hinduism), prophets in abrahamic religions etc.

    If God did NOT reveal himself to everybody in this world, what makes you think He reveals Himself to everybody in the next world without proper qualification.

    The answer is jeebus is NOT at all a god or angel or anything. He is a very low level creature in all probability, if at all he exists and perhaps so appears to many.

    4. Have you considered hallucinations as possibilities for most cases of NDEs? Very few cases have legitimate evidences and that too evidences from this world about survival of conscience. There is NO way one can provide evidence for otherworldly experiences. We can never be sure what is true or false in these experiences.

  58. Thinker says:

    @James; It is “Near Death Experience”

  59. aussiewoman says:

    Dear Mr Sina,..
    Thank you for the work you are doing to free the muslims from the cult of islam..
    I hate islam with every fibre of my being but I try hard not to personalize this by hating muslims in my heart because I realize they are victims..
    Your articles have helped me to have a deeper understanding of the grip this cult has upon its followers, also I read many of your letters from ex- muslims which helps me to identify with them as people rather than the monsters I see on the media, killing innocent women children and even their fellow muslims.
    So thank you for releasing me from the hate, I will pray for them instead,
    Anne Christine

  60. Ron says:

    so many muslims became Christians

  61. @ Reeaz Ali

    ‘“For a person to have experienced seeing Jesus in an NDE does not seem feasible to me as none of these folks even know what Jesus looked like”

    The meeting of souls in the other world is very different from what we know and understand as meeting. Souls not only have no shape they don’t even have a name. None of that is needed there because we interact in our essence. We know others, know their thoughts and their past lives experiences. Nothing is hidden. When people say they met Jesus they know whom they met. All spirits are formless and so is Jesus. Yet they sometimes appear to newcomers as they were known on Earth. This does not mean they really maintain the shape and form of their physical existence that they had on Earth.

    In regards to the Bible I agree that much of it is myths borrowed from ancient books. If you read the adventures of Gilgamish you can easily see that the many stories of the Bible are taken from those stories. However, the fact that the believers altered and embellished their scriptures with fables to possibly make them attractive to their contemporaries is no good reason for rejecting Jesus. There are countless false miracles attributed to Muhammad too. We know for a fact that much of the Sira and hadith are fabricated. This has caused many modern Islamisists to reject the historicity of Muhammad altogether. That is a gross error. In my new book The Life of Muhammad, I separate all chaff from wheat and show the reader the real Muhammad. It is really not difficult to do that and I am amazed that so few orientalists (actually none) has been able to do it. The Muhammad of these orientalists is not less mythical than the one described by the Sira.

    We should read the Bible with the same critical approach. If you try to find errors in the Bible you can find almost in every page. But with my new understanding of the NDE I am somehow managing to find the gold in that book while leaving aside what is not.

    I hope you will continue reading the stories of NDErs. Just as these stories convinced you that God exists they will also convince you that Jesus is the king in heaven.

    “For me personally i would rather not label God in any human descriptions.”

    Well actually you can. I was of the view that if God exists he must be utterly incomprehensible to us humans. But the more I read the tales of the NDE the more I come to see that God is indeed a person just like us. When I say a person I don’t mean human. Every living being from antelopes to zebra is a person. We are all of the same essence. And the source of all of us is God. If you have never seen an ocean you can know its nature by looking at a glass of water. An ant does not look much like an elephant or a human. But that is not who we are. Our essence is our consciousness and our consciousness is from God. The only difference is in size. The essence of a molecule of water, a drop of water, a glass of water, a pool of water, a lake and an ocean is the same. The difference is in size. We are all like God. He made us from himself, like fractals. Let not the difference in our physical shape fool you. Water is molded in the shape of its container. It does not mean that the water in a bowl and the water in a jar are different things.

    We are being fed with the lie that the essence of God is unknowable. People who tell you this yarn speak for themselves. The essence of God is very knowable. Look into your own soul and there you see the light of God. He is in you because you are Him. There is no separation. We are all God, both separate and one with Him at once. I can now see God in every person, every animal, in every tree and in the mountains and in rocks. Yet God has never descended from His throne of Glory.

    Why do I believe in Jesus now? It is because it took me decades of search to discover this fact. Jesus who was younger than me, less educated then me, who had no access to books and the Internet knew it. I read it before and did not get it then. It is in Matthew 25:35. How could I have missed? It’s because I was not a connoisseur. That is why I don’t encourage people to read the Bible. I tell them to read the stories of NDE. Through these stories I gained the insight to understand the Bible. I am sure others will eventually come to the same conclusion if they read enough NDE stories. Ten or twenty is not enough. Most of the experiences are limited. You really need to read hundreds of them, especially the ones who met God and Jesus to become convinced.

    Yes there are many absurdities in that book and particularly in the Old Testament. But once your eyes are opened to spiritual knowledge, you can easily ignore all the dirt and mine the gold. The Bible happens to be a very rich mine.

    “The Grandeur and the wonder of this Universe is so complex and overwhelming that i feel labeling God with a human description is very small and demeaning on our part.”

    You can stand in front of an ocean, enter it, experience it and know its essence without knowing its size. What we may never know is the size of God, but all you need to know his essence is to look into your own soul. God is with you all the time, from the moment of conception to death and beyond.

    Coming to this world is like wearing a pair of goggles that allows us to experience a virtual reality. The goggles prevent us from seeing our surrounding and for some reason that memory is erased also. All we know is this world and it seems real. What we can’t see is that God is standing by us all the time watching us play this virtual game. He will give us a hand if we ask. Other than that He lets us play without intervention and learn through errors.

  62. Dr. Nishant says:

    Dear Ex Muslim from Fiji,
    Congratulations on your new found freedom. Finally you are free from the idiotic zombie cult.
    To comment on Ali’s comments: Indeed Jesus was a wonderful person, an ideal, lovely and a good human and was an enlightened being.The likes of such people, truly inspire us to go beyond the mundane and realise our true spiritual selves.
    It is immaterial if he was real or not or if his stories are entirely,partly true or not. Just to elaborate, there is an oft repeated story in my region which goes some what like this. A young man, having a deep longing to attain enlightlenment in the true spirit of enquiry, for which he could do any penance meets an impostor guru. After a very long search through several towns and villages in India, this young guy is truly convinced that this impostor is truly enlightened and whole heartedly accepts him as his guru. The impostor takes advantage of his innocence and uses the young man as his servant and makes him do all the menial work. After a few years, this impostor gets fed up with this young guys spiritual questions and orders him to jump from a cliff, promising him eternal knowledge if he dares to do so. So this guy jumps from the high cliff, without even a shred of doubt about his masters promise, and comes up unhurt. Very happy, jubilant, the young man comes back to his master and falls at his feet. He says that he realised the impermanence and the illusionary (mayavi) nature of the universe, and even though there is free will not even a leaf of a tree could move without the grace of the almighty. The impostor, still being wicked asks the young man to meditate while sitting in a rubble of wood lit with fire. The young guy is a true disciple, and with much enthusiasm does as advised. He quickly transcends into deep meditation and attains enlightment in the fire without even slightly be hurt by it.
    No body knows if this story is true or a fable, and no true spiritual seeker bothers to find out.
    You see, spirituality is not history. Stories can only inspire you, they can show you the way, the choice to walk through is ours. Even if an event was historically true, how does it matter, if I am unable to transform and transcend the material aspects of my nature.That’s my opinion.
    Coming to NDE’S: Its well documented in several Hindu scriptures that in non material worlds beings communicate by means of thought or light, as you are in USA where the iskon people have several branches ask them, they often repeat this while describing the so called celestial world’s.
    I have several issues with NDE’s, 1st,I don’t find the evidence convincing. 2nd NDE’s are not under control of human beings, that is no matter what you do and how strong your quest and spirit of enquiry is, the nde people give no way as to reach the so called heavenly or hellish worlds. If suppose a mahavira, a gautama Buddha, bhrugu, atreya were alive today and was adamant that no matter what, I would reach enlignment, would he find this nde thing of any help? 3rd NDE literature will only create doubts and at least for the people who haven’t experienced NDE’s, does their lives get so much transformed to actually attain enlightenment? No. They are most likely to live and die in the hope that they will reach heaven after their deaths. So, the obvious question to ask is, can humans have self realisation and complete enlightenment of the material and immaterial world while still alive? Or do we have to wait until death. The eastern religions ( all of them) answer in yes to the first question, because death is just a temporary transit and if you aren’t enlightened while alive, its very unlikely u would do so after the death.
    Most people think that all the eastern religions are so different, but such a view is so superficial, and taken without understanding these religions in depth. Mahavira was contemprory of Buddha and brahmanism(all three have some roots in the Vedic and upanashidic philosophy) was also present at the same time. These 3 use the same words like moksha, nirvana etc. But with different meanings and all have varying, disparging views on many matters. Yet when a guru meets the others disciples, he often says that the other is also true and his opinion is his own. This has been true since the beginning of all these religions. Even recently rajneesh’s disciples would visit j Krishnamurthy, or the most recent meetings of Dalai Lama, shri shri ravishankar, iskon delegates etc. Similar views are expressed about their adversaries. The bottom line is, the reality is too vast to be described in a single version, and it is immaterial if u believe in a Krishna , Buddha etc if there is not going to be any transformation in yourself.
    Krishna in bhagvad gita says, that he personally takes care of all living beings and personally takes the form of the deity any one worships. So, if u worship a stone, Jesus, Buddha etc it is immaterial. What matters is what truly is in your heart and how sincere you are. So, you can replace the name of Krishna to any god u like it doesn’t matter.
    This brings us to the question, how can 1 attain enlightenment while still being alive. There are innumerable ways, but can be classified into 3 categories according to the gita ( gita is described as the summary of different ways by many)
    1) the path of knowledge, that is yoga, Tantra, meditation etc 2) the path of karma , right thought, right action etc, 3) path of devotion the straight path. Everyone chooses his path according to his temperament and can change paths as and when he wants. Christian, and most of the religious people prefer the path of devotion, ( personally I think,varkaris are the best devotees in Hinduism) even though the protagonists of their religions have been, yogis, siddhas, etc. as it is easy to believe in a personal god and forget all the worries by submitting to him. That’s why its common to note a villager in my native country side would remove his footwear, fold his hands in salutation in respect of the deity, be that a Hindu/Jain temple, a church or the mazar of a pir (Muslim saint) . Such innocence is increasingly being lost in recent times due to modernisation and islamisation (hatred towards others).
    So, it is necessary to know the different ways to reach ones emancipation as to choose the best according to ones temperament and Mr. Ex Muslim from Fiji, I think it is best not to be judgemental and explore all the ways for short time until you decide what suits you.
    I would recommend you to read Vigyan bhairav Tantra(book of secrets), you would find its pdf free online with a commentary written by OSHO, ( OSHO Writes lucidly and for a layman, you can ignore the parts of commentary u don’t like, but the methods I personally would recommend you to try) this of course if you are not a devotional type person, a person who wants to experience and not just philosophise. Very very few Hindus know about this book, but its a genuinely good book to experiment (don’t miss the opportunity to try these methods sincerely as u may not revisit Tantra again in your life ever)
    if u don’t like the book, u can always discard it in a dustbin or burn it. All the very best for your new life.

  63. madfijian says:

    Hello A Sina,

    I too have studied the work of DM Murdock and am a registered member of her website. I do wish her well and hope she recovers. Their is not much research left on religion and the afterlife that i have not done and studied. On the topic of Jesus i will say that our views defer. Even great NDE researchers who went through an NDE themselves at one time like PMH Atwater and many others have conflicting views on Jesus. Like Murdock i to have found no record of any person in independent history collaborating or verifying the Bible version of events. Those that Christians point to have all been proven as false and inserted well after the records were written. I have read and re read the bible and it simply does nothing for me so i will leave at that.

    For me personally the jury is still out their on Jesus. For a person to have experienced seeing Jesus in an NDE does not seem feasible to me as none of these folks even know what Jesus looked like if indeed he was a part of history as described by the bible.For me personally i would rather not label God in any human descriptions. The Grandeur and the wonder of this Universe is so complex and overwhelming that i feel labeling God with a human description is very small and demeaning on our part.

    I have studied what little is known of the shamanic traditions of the American Indians. I think i like their description of God. The Great Spirit. The good thing about you and me is that we can agree to to disagree and respect each others view and inner calling. This is what Islam hates the most. One thing that we both agree on is no matter what form the truth will eventually take it is not going to be an Islamic version. Their is a great deal of off the radar research going on the survival of consciousness and their is great hope that one day we will be able to communicate with our loved ones on a TV like device. Perhaps by then we will know what really is going on. Personally i am looking forward to attending a Seance in Australia where spirits appear in solid form through a medium. This will be next year. I will post my experience here if you are interested.

    I respect your belief in Jesus though and although we disagree on him being God i will say this i follow his one basic principle and that is love everyone without prejudice or judgement. That is how i live my life now without prejudice as much as humanly possible.

    Peace and Love to you Brother and keep up the good work. I also wish you well in your spiritual journey.

    Warm Regards
    Reaaz Ali

  64. James says:

    Glad reading through your write up with R.Ali,May I ask what NDE means?

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