Leaving Islam



 Jalal Abualrub

9.             "The average Iranian is still a moderate Muslim. He does not go to the Mosque, does not respect the Mullahs, he fasts and prays and views Islam as a personal faith. The average Iranian has a Sufi understanding of Islam. So in a sense the mainstream Muslims are right to call Iranians heretics." Again, these are sweeping statements for which I have seen no proof on your part. Yet, as it appears, you are stating here that moderate Iranians are religious, since they pray and fast, except for your claim that they do not go to mosques and do not respect the Mullahs. To continue, I should state that mainstream Muslims, whatever that means, do not consider Iranians heretics. Mainstream Islam is a sect, while the Iran is a big country that comprises, among other races, Persians, Turks, Pashtunes and Arabs who are divided into many religions and sects, such as Sunnis, Shiites, fire-worshippers, Jews, etc. I think that you mean that Sunni Muslims consider Shiites heretics, since this is the centuries-old dispute that arose between the two Islamic sects, not between Muslims and Iranians.

You caught my error again. Yes you are right, it is Sunnis who say Iranians are heretics. 

Hopefully, you know that the Shiites appeared in Iraq , in Basrah and Kufah, and among Arabs, time before this sect spread to Persia ( Iran , as a modern political entity is a new term.)

Even if I did not know I know it now. But that has nothing to do with our discussion.


10.  "Frankly I never thought men are exalted our women and are a degree superior to them."  It depends on what you understand of Allah's statement that men have a degree of superiority above women. The background you were raised in, according to you, is Shiism, Sufism and beliefs of moderate Iranians. This is not the true Islam which preceded Shiism, Islamic-Sufism and the Iranian revolution. Islam is founded on the two revelations: the Quran and Sunnah, and all that is not taken from the Quran and Sunnah is anything but Islamic.

I do not agree with the Quranic statement that says men have an advantage over women and excel them. This is a principle. As you can see in my claim against Muhammad, misogyny does not only harm the women but men are also the losers. It has nothing to do with my background and understating. This is male chauvinism and I simply do not agree with it. Are you saying in Islam men and women enjoy the same rights? Of course that won't be true. There is gender discrimination in Islam. In the link that I gave you I brought the charge of misogyny against Muhammad. Please read it and if you can, dispute my claim.  


11.  "I never thought chopping hands of the thief is justice.. I never agreed with stoning victims of rape." You are offering your personal opinion here, your personal preference, which is as good as the preference of others who might oppose you and others who might oppose both them and you. Make this statement of yours more fruitful by suggesting why you do not like these aspects of the Islamic penal code and what is the better alternative.

Also, Islam does not cut the 'hands' of the thief, but the 'hand' of the thief, if the thief steals a certain amount or larger, as Islamic books, such as al-Bukhari and Muslim, among other Hadeeth book, indicate.

We will cross that bridge when we get there. This is a long subject and requires a dedicated discussion. Let us concentrate on one thing at a time. Let us talk about misogyny first.


12.  You said, "I never thought apostates should be put to death." However, I always thought that they should be put to death, by the Islamic State. Therefore, where do we go from here, decide religion for mankind based on our preferences and desires?

We will get to that too. But just to give you a short response, since I am an apostate and since it is your belief that I should be put to death donít you think it is my human right to kill you first as an act of self defense?  But this too is a long subject. Let us not open this Pandora box at this moment. Let us stick to our plan and discuss one topic at a time. 


13.  "I never hated the Jews enough." This is not a good statement by you to say to a Palestinian who lost his land, who has hundreds of relative he never saw and can never visit and whose people have been forcibly scattered throughout the world because of the Jews who stile their land. I ask you this: had you lost the same to the Jews, would you still have not hated them? Yet, I did not understand the term 'hate', here. What is your definition of Islam's definition of hatred, and why did you mention Jews in specific?

Yes I am sorry for the Palestinians. But they are not the only ones who have lost their homes . This happened to billions of people throughout the history. The Palestinians however could have had their land back had they not hated the Jews to the extent of not wanting to do anything with them except drowning them in the sea. So they leave no option for the Jews but to defend themselves. This is for them the matter of survival. Survival is instinctual. All animals, even bacteria and ameba fight to defend their right to live. And no, Jews did not do any wrong to me. If they wronged the Palestinians why should I get involved? There is a lot of war going on in the world, do I have to be involved in all of them? The Palestinians are hired by the Mullahs in Iran to kill my people. Why should I give a damn about them? They are not my friends. They are my enemies. But despite that, had they had the humanity to acknowledge that Jews are also humans I would still be concerned about them. But I canít defend them when they have no regards for the lives of the Jews and think they should die.  

You probably have difficulty understanding this at all. Let me clarify it for you. I do not see people as Muslims and non-Muslims. I am religious blind and race blind. I see people as humans and not as Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians or Atheists. Religion, race, nationality, caste and gender are meaningless to me. I see the soul of every human being and at that depth all the differences disappear. I said we Iranians adore our poets. Saídi is one poet we all adore and this is what he said. This is the essence of my religion:

 All men are members of the same body,
Created from one essence.
If fate brings suffering to one member,
The others cannot stay at rest.
You who remain indifferent
To the burden of pain of others,
Do not deserve to be called human. 

Compare that to the fascism taught by Muhammad who said only Muslims are brothers. But let us talk about this in another time. There is a lot to talk about and we want to be organized.

14.  "I always thought God is interested in our deeds and not in our beliefs and good people will not end in hell just because they do not believe in Islam." Did you ever think about what God actually wants as compared to what you think He wants? According to you, God wants us to pray and give charity, but not to believe in Him? I fail to understand the logic here. Had you said that God wants us to believe but the deeds are not that important to Him, I would have said that many people share your view, including some deviant Muslims. Do you mean that Allah will treat the Faithful, who believes in Him and in His Book and Prophets and fulfills the Commandments, the same as He will treat those who did not believe in Him, obeyed His commandments or avoided His prohibitions?

Well, that is the god of Islam. I do not agree with him. I think he is not the real God and hence I left Islam.  That is an interesting subject and I would like to dedicate to it good portion of our discussion. We will get to that later.One thing at a time! 

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