"The average Iranian is
still a moderate Muslim. He does not go to the Mosque, does not
respect the Mullahs, he fasts and prays and views Islam as a
personal faith. The average Iranian has a Sufi understanding of
Islam. So in a sense the mainstream Muslims are right to call
Iranians heretics." Again, these are sweeping
statements for which I have seen no proof on your part. Yet, as it
appears, you are stating here that moderate Iranians are
religious, since they pray and fast, except for your claim that
they do not go to mosques and do not respect the Mullahs. To
continue, I should state that mainstream Muslims, whatever that
means, do not consider Iranians heretics. Mainstream Islam is a
sect, while the Iran is a big country that comprises, among other
races, Persians, Turks, Pashtunes and Arabs who are divided into
many religions and sects, such as Sunnis, Shiites,
fire-worshippers, Jews, etc. I think that you mean that Sunni
Muslims consider Shiites heretics, since this is the centuries-old
dispute that arose between the two Islamic sects, not between
Muslims and Iranians.
You caught my error again. Yes you are right, it is
Sunnis who say Iranians are heretics.
|Hopefully, you know that the Shiites appeared in
, in Basrah and Kufah, and among Arabs, time before this sect
, as a modern political entity is a new term.)
Even if I did not know I know it now. But that has
nothing to do with our discussion.
I never thought men are exalted our women and are a degree
superior to them."
It depends on what you understand of Allah's statement that
men have a degree of superiority above women. The background you
were raised in, according to you, is Shiism, Sufism and beliefs of
moderate Iranians. This is not the true Islam which preceded
Shiism, Islamic-Sufism and the Iranian revolution. Islam is
founded on the two revelations: the Quran and Sunnah, and all that
is not taken from the Quran and Sunnah is anything but Islamic.
I do not agree with the Quranic statement that says
men have an advantage over women and excel them. This is a principle. As
you can see in my claim against Muhammad, misogyny does not only harm the
women but men are also the losers. It has nothing to do with my background
and understating. This is male chauvinism and I simply do not agree with
it. Are you saying in Islam men and women enjoy the same rights? Of course
that won't be true. There is gender discrimination in Islam. In the link
that I gave you I brought the charge of misogyny against Muhammad. Please
read it and if you can, dispute my claim.
never thought chopping hands of the thief is justice.. I never
agreed with stoning victims of rape." You are offering
your personal opinion here, your personal preference, which is as
good as the preference of others who might oppose you and others
who might oppose both them and you. Make this statement of yours
more fruitful by suggesting why you do not like these aspects of
the Islamic penal code and what is the better alternative.
Also, Islam does not cut the 'hands' of the
thief, but the 'hand' of the thief, if the thief steals a certain
amount or larger, as Islamic books, such as al-Bukhari and Muslim,
among other Hadeeth book, indicate.
We will cross that bridge when we get there. This is a long subject and
requires a dedicated discussion. Let us concentrate on one thing at a
time. Let us talk about misogyny first.
|12. You said, "I
never thought apostates should be put to death."
However, I always thought that they should be put to death, by the
Islamic State. Therefore, where do we go from here, decide
religion for mankind based on our preferences and desires?
We will get to that too. But just to give you a short
response, since I am an apostate and since it is your belief that I should
be put to death donít you think it is my human right to kill you first
as an act of self defense? But
this too is a long subject. Let us not open this Pandora box at this
moment. Let us stick to our plan and discuss one topic at a time.
never hated the Jews enough." This is not a good
statement by you to say to a Palestinian who lost his land, who
has hundreds of relative he never saw and can never visit and
whose people have been forcibly scattered throughout the world
because of the Jews who stile their land. I ask you this: had you
lost the same to the Jews, would you still have not hated them?
Yet, I did not understand the term 'hate', here. What is your
definition of Islam's definition of hatred, and why did you
mention Jews in specific?
Yes I am sorry for the Palestinians. But they are not the only ones who
have lost their homes . This happened to billions of people throughout the
history. The Palestinians however could have had their land back had they
not hated the Jews to the extent of not wanting to do anything with them
except drowning them in the sea. So they leave no option for the Jews but
to defend themselves. This is for them the matter of survival. Survival is
instinctual. All animals, even bacteria and ameba fight to defend their
right to live. And no, Jews did not do any wrong to me. If they wronged
the Palestinians why should I get involved? There is a lot of war going on
in the world, do I have to be involved in all of them? The Palestinians
are hired by the Mullahs in
to kill my people. Why should I give a damn about them? They are not my
friends. They are my enemies. But despite that, had they had the humanity
to acknowledge that Jews are also humans I would still be concerned about
them. But I canít defend them when they have no regards for the lives of
the Jews and think they should die.
You probably have difficulty understanding this at
all. Let me clarify it for you. I do not see people as Muslims and
non-Muslims. I am religious blind and race blind. I see people as humans
and not as Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians or Atheists. Religion, race,
nationality, caste and gender are meaningless to me. I see the soul of
every human being and at that depth all the differences disappear. I said
we Iranians adore our poets. Saídi is one poet we all adore and this is
what he said. This is the essence of my religion:
All men are
members of the same body,
Created from one essence.
If fate brings suffering to one member,
The others cannot stay at rest.
You who remain indifferent
To the burden of pain of others,
Do not deserve to be called human.
Compare that to the fascism taught by Muhammad who said only Muslims are
brothers. But let us talk about this in another time. There is a lot to
talk about and we want to be organized.
always thought God is interested in our deeds and not in our
beliefs and good people will not end in hell just because they do
not believe in Islam." Did you ever think about what
God actually wants as compared to what you think He wants?
According to you, God wants us to pray and give charity, but not
to believe in Him? I fail to understand the logic here. Had you
said that God wants us to believe but the deeds are not that
important to Him, I would have said that many people share your
view, including some deviant Muslims. Do you mean that Allah will
treat the Faithful, who believes in Him and in His Book and
Prophets and fulfills the Commandments, the same as He will treat
those who did not believe in Him, obeyed His commandments or
avoided His prohibitions?
Well, that is the god of Islam. I do not agree with
him. I think he is not the real God and hence I left Islam.
That is an interesting subject and I would like to dedicate to it
good portion of our discussion. We will get to that later.One thing at a
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