|Also, I was told by someone that you are atheist, is that true,
and if so, do you then believe in God, let alone decide what He
really likes or not?
Let us leave that discussion for another time. I
wrote about that extensively but it is irrelevant to our discussion. For
the time being and for the sake of this discussion I accept that God
exists, whatever your definition of it may be. With that premise, I will
prove to you that Muhammad cannot be the messenger of any god unless Allah
is Satan. In that case everything falls into place.
|Further, you need to explain why you say that people will end up
in Hellfire just because they did not believe in Islam? What about
those who live and die without hearing about Islam, the Quran or
Muhammad? What about those who came before Islam?
Well actually this is a question that you aught to
answer. However, my understanding is that anyone who did not believe in
Muhammad will go to hell and that includes Abu Talib, the uncle and
guardian of Muhammad, who refused to give up his ancestral Faith despite
Muhammad’s invitation and Amina, Muhammad’s mother who died years
before he fancied about being a messenger. I can show you that Muhammad
declined praying at the tomb of his mother and at the deathbed of his
uncle claiming that Allah prohibited him from doing that because they died
in disbelief. I know you can’t wait responding me here. But please let
us be organized and discuss one thing at a time. Let us first talk about
the charge of misogyny.
moment I read the Quran and realized my romantic view of Islam is
based on false premises and Islam is completely deprived of any
humanity, I realized I have never been a Muslim in my entire life."
I agree that you were never a Muslim before.
And you still did not tell me what references on the Quran
you read, meaning, Tafsir, what books of Hadeeth you studied, what
level of knowledge you had in Islam for you to reject it based on
that knowledge. Your statement here is a sweeping statement that
needs examples, otherwise, you will have left Islam based on
emotions and personal preferences.
I decided I am not a Muslim only after I read the Quran, using the
Arabic text and one or sometimes a couple of English translations to make
sure I do not misunderstand it. After that I started reading Hadith
Bukhari and Muslim and then Tabari and Sira, but I already made my mind
after reading the Quran and consulting Maududi for Tafseer. It is
important to know the context of the Quran.
As for the Quran being deprived of humanity,
which part of it: bring an Ayah that supports your statement, I do
not need many Ayat, just one?
Okay just one. I quote the one that is relevant to
the theme of our discussion, i.e. misogyny.
4:34, Men are in charge of
women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other,
and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So
good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath
guarded. As for those from whom ye fear
rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.
Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever
High, Exalted, Great.
"So if you say that a
true Muslim would never leave Islam, I agree. I was not a true
Muslim and I suspect the majority of so called Muslims are not
true Muslims. I am interested to reach out to these people and
tell them the truth. The true Muslims are the terrorists. I will
never be able to reach them nor am I interested to do that."
This is nice! You never were a Muslim, did not read the original
resources of Islam as properly understood, decided on your own
that the majority of Muslims are not Muslims and then said that
true Muslims are terrorists. I ask you if this is reasonable
coming from you, because so far you prejudged a religion you never
embraced, offered general statements on a wide range of issues
without any supporting proof, criticized the Quran without
mentioning examples, and the few examples you brought were
rejected by you based on opinion and preference.
Yes I read the original sources of Islam and after discussing with
thousands of Muslims during these six years of my online activity, I came
to believe the majority of Muslims, like myself, are Muslims by name and
really do not know who Muhammad was and what he said and did. They live in
denial and it is my belief that once it becomes clear to them who this man
was, most of them will leave Islam in disgust. It may take time but it is
|As for your statement that true Muslims are terrorists, all what
I can say in response is this: shame on you! I had hoped that you
would show an independent mentality and a type of intellect that
distinguishes itself from that of others by research and
scientific approach. You disappointed me. I am a Muslim who
believes in all and every aspect of Islam, so am I a terrorist
Did you really have to insult? That does not help
your cause and except for providing immediate satisfaction it basically
mires your own image. Do you agree
that Jihad is a pillar of Islam? What do you think Jihad is? Jihad is
terrorism. This is not an insult. This is an statement of facts. When we
come to this point, I will bring evidence from Islamic sources showing
Muhammad’s Qazwahs (raids) were acts of terrorism and that today’s
Jihadis or what the westerners call terrorists, are following the examples
set by Muhammad. Take the example of beheading! In the civilized world
people call it terrorism. For those who perpetrate it, it's Jihad. Muhammad
beheaded many people. Is beheading terrorism or is it Jihad? Was
Muhammad a terrorist or was he a Jihadi? The difference is merely in whom
Moreover you agree that apostates should be put to
death. Isn't this terrorism, or rather state terrorism? Aren't you
yourself who uphold such an abhorrent view, a terrorist? You want to kill
me just because I disagree with you. If this is not terror then one of us
is confused about the meaning of terror. Do I have the same right? Am I
allowed to kill you because you disagree with me? In fact probably I have
even more rights killing you, not because you disagree with me but for
self defense. According to the Quran all the infidels must be killed
or subdued, humiliated and reduced to second class citizens. Therefore
based on your own standard it is imperative for the non-Muslims who do not
want to be killed or reduced to dhimitude to kill the Muslims
preemptively, "wherever they find them" and make this planet a
safe place for themselves and for their children. But don't answer this
yet. Let us concentrate on our subject misogyny
for now. We will get to that later.
Thus, I encourage you to do this:
Keep this conversation or discussion at an acceptable level
of civility. I ask you to show respect to my faith.
First remember that you insulted my person. So maybe, dear doctor, heal
thyself first. Second, our discussion is about Islam and my position is to
attack it. I will back every charge that I lay against Islam and its
author with evidence. That is not insult. I am going to call Muhammad a
pedophile. I will provide enough evidence to prove my charge. Your job is
to disprove me. If all you can do is to get offended and then insult me,
then why we are wasting our time? I issued an open challenge, inviting any
Muslim to come and disprove me. Ben Malik invited you to take up the
challenge and you accepted. Now all you have to do is to disprove my
charges, even one of them is good. I am accusing Muhammad of serious
crimes and all you have to say is “shame on you" and "do not
offend my feelings”? That is
not an acceptable defense.
You are using two logical fallacies. One is ad hominem; the other is
argumentum ad misericordiam.
If you want to criticize Islam, fine, just bring examples
and evidences void of name-calling and demeaning descriptions.
Yes that is what I am going to do. Once we get to the charges I will
back them all with sufficient proofs.
Let your next email be brief and in it bring me one issue
at a time, such as: an Ayah or Hadeeth because of which you left
Islam -which you state you never were in. Examples: 'true Muslims'
are terrorists because the Quran says: "kill them wherever
you find them." Or, Muhammad did not listen to Abu Jahl
regarding this aspect.. Or, the Quran is void of humanity because
it calls upon Muslims to exterminate their foes. This is far
better and more fruitful for both of us.
Well, this email is long because I had to respond to
your long email. You do not have answer this. This is not part of our
discussion. Let us get to the point.
I am accusing Muhammad of misogyny.
That is my first charge. It is not brief but that is not our objective. We
want to be exhaustive. But it is important that we stick to one subject at
a time. It does not have to be too brief either. Brevity is good but
clarity is even better. If we self regulate ourselves and talk about one
subject at a time without jumping from one point to another, we can make
Anyway, I think you are an experienced debater and I
have some experience too. Let us stick to one point at a time. Let us
start with misogyny.
If you are not comfortable with this topic, let me
know and I will make another charge.
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