Leaving Islam



 Jalal Abualrub

Also, I was told by someone that you are atheist, is that true, and if so, do you then believe in God, let alone decide what He really likes or not?

Let us leave that discussion for another time. I wrote about that extensively but it is irrelevant to our discussion. For the time being and for the sake of this discussion I accept that God exists, whatever your definition of it may be. With that premise, I will prove to you that Muhammad cannot be the messenger of any god unless Allah is Satan. In that case everything falls into place.


Further, you need to explain why you say that people will end up in Hellfire just because they did not believe in Islam? What about those who live and die without hearing about Islam, the Quran or Muhammad? What about those who came before Islam?

Well actually this is a question that you aught to answer. However, my understanding is that anyone who did not believe in Muhammad will go to hell and that includes Abu Talib, the uncle and guardian of Muhammad, who refused to give up his ancestral Faith despite Muhammad’s invitation and Amina, Muhammad’s mother who died years before he fancied about being a messenger. I can show you that Muhammad declined praying at the tomb of his mother and at the deathbed of his uncle claiming that Allah prohibited him from doing that because they died in disbelief. I know you can’t wait responding me here. But please let us be organized and discuss one thing at a time. Let us first talk about the charge of misogyny.


15.  "The moment I read the Quran and realized my romantic view of Islam is based on false premises and Islam is completely deprived of any humanity, I realized I have never been a Muslim in my entire life." I agree that you were never a Muslim before.  And you still did not tell me what references on the Quran you read, meaning, Tafsir, what books of Hadeeth you studied, what level of knowledge you had in Islam for you to reject it based on that knowledge. Your statement here is a sweeping statement that needs examples, otherwise, you will have left Islam based on emotions and personal preferences.

 I decided I am not a Muslim only after I read the Quran, using the Arabic text and one or sometimes a couple of English translations to make sure I do not misunderstand it. After that I started reading Hadith Bukhari and Muslim and then Tabari and Sira, but I already made my mind after reading the Quran and consulting Maududi for Tafseer. It is important to know the context of the Quran.  


As for the Quran being deprived of humanity, which part of it: bring an Ayah that supports your statement, I do not need many Ayat, just one?

Okay just one. I quote the one that is relevant to the theme of our discussion, i.e. misogyny.  

4:34, Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.   

16.     "So if you say that a true Muslim would never leave Islam, I agree. I was not a true Muslim and I suspect the majority of so called Muslims are not true Muslims. I am interested to reach out to these people and tell them the truth. The true Muslims are the terrorists. I will never be able to reach them nor am I interested to do that." This is nice! You never were a Muslim, did not read the original resources of Islam as properly understood, decided on your own that the majority of Muslims are not Muslims and then said that true Muslims are terrorists. I ask you if this is reasonable coming from you, because so far you prejudged a religion you never embraced, offered general statements on a wide range of issues without any supporting proof, criticized the Quran without mentioning examples, and the few examples you brought were rejected by you based on opinion and preference.

Yes I read the original sources of Islam and after discussing with thousands of Muslims during these six years of my online activity, I came to believe the majority of Muslims, like myself, are Muslims by name and really do not know who Muhammad was and what he said and did. They live in denial and it is my belief that once it becomes clear to them who this man was, most of them will leave Islam in disgust. It may take time but it is happening already.

As for your statement that true Muslims are terrorists, all what I can say in response is this: shame on you! I had hoped that you would show an independent mentality and a type of intellect that distinguishes itself from that of others by research and scientific approach. You disappointed me. I am a Muslim who believes in all and every aspect of Islam, so am I a terrorist too?

Did you really have to insult? That does not help your cause and except for providing immediate satisfaction it basically mires your own image. Do you agree that Jihad is a pillar of Islam? What do you think Jihad is? Jihad is terrorism. This is not an insult. This is an statement of facts. When we come to this point, I will bring evidence from Islamic sources showing Muhammad’s Qazwahs (raids) were acts of terrorism and that today’s Jihadis or what the westerners call terrorists, are following the examples set by Muhammad. Take the example of beheading! In the civilized world people call it terrorism. For those who perpetrate it, it's Jihad. Muhammad beheaded many people. Is beheading terrorism or is it Jihad? Was Muhammad a terrorist or was he a Jihadi? The difference is merely in whom you ask.  

Moreover you agree that apostates should be put to death. Isn't this terrorism, or rather state terrorism? Aren't you yourself who uphold such an abhorrent view, a terrorist? You want to kill me just because I disagree with you. If this is not terror then one of us is confused about the meaning of terror. Do I have the same right? Am I allowed to kill you because you disagree with me? In fact probably I have even more rights killing you, not because you disagree with me but for self defense.  According to the Quran all the infidels must be killed or subdued, humiliated and reduced to second class citizens. Therefore based on your own standard it is imperative for the non-Muslims who do not want to be killed or reduced to dhimitude to kill the Muslims preemptively, "wherever they find them" and make this planet a safe place for themselves and for their children. But don't answer this yet. Let us concentrate on our subject misogyny for now. We will get to that later.  


Thus, I encourage you to do this:  

·        Keep this conversation or discussion at an acceptable level of civility. I ask you to show respect to my faith.

First remember that you insulted my person. So maybe, dear doctor, heal thyself first. Second, our discussion is about Islam and my position is to attack it. I will back every charge that I lay against Islam and its author with evidence. That is not insult. I am going to call Muhammad a pedophile. I will provide enough evidence to prove my charge. Your job is to disprove me. If all you can do is to get offended and then insult me, then why we are wasting our time? I issued an open challenge, inviting any Muslim to come and disprove me. Ben Malik invited you to take up the challenge and you accepted. Now all you have to do is to disprove my charges, even one of them is good. I am accusing Muhammad of serious crimes and all you have to say is “shame on you" and "do not offend my feelings”?  That is not an acceptable defense.  

You are using two logical fallacies. One is ad hominem; the other is argumentum ad misericordiam.  

·        If you want to criticize Islam, fine, just bring examples and evidences void of name-calling and demeaning descriptions.

 Yes that is what I am going to do. Once we get to the charges I will back them all with sufficient proofs.


·        Let your next email be brief and in it bring me one issue at a time, such as: an Ayah or Hadeeth because of which you left Islam -which you state you never were in. Examples: 'true Muslims' are terrorists because the Quran says: "kill them wherever you find them." Or, Muhammad did not listen to Abu Jahl regarding this aspect.. Or, the Quran is void of humanity because it calls upon Muslims to exterminate their foes. This is far better and more fruitful for both of us.  

Jalal Abualrub


Well, this email is long because I had to respond to your long email. You do not have answer this. This is not part of our discussion. Let us get to the point. 

I am accusing Muhammad of misogyny. That is my first charge. It is not brief but that is not our objective. We want to be exhaustive. But it is important that we stick to one subject at a time. It does not have to be too brief either. Brevity is good but clarity is even better. If we self regulate ourselves and talk about one subject at a time without jumping from one point to another, we can make this work.

Anyway, I think you are an experienced debater and I have some experience too. Let us stick to one point at a time. Let us start with misogyny.    

If you are not comfortable with this topic, let me know and I will make another charge. 

Ali Sina

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