with Malik Usman Part III
Part II Part III
This message was sent to Mr. Malik Usman in
response to his email
I did not attack your person. There is no need to
If you can disprove Roy Avijit and the
Contradictions in Quran written by Syed Kamran Mirza, please do so. I am
sure they would be happy to hear that. There is no need to brag and say
it is easy to refute them. Just refute them.
I am sorry you did not like my initiative to
publish our correspondence. I personally love when others publish my
works, unless there is something personal in it and then I will make
sure to tell them not to. In our debate I see nothing of personal
I believe it is my Mi’raj to Heaven that you call
“bad humor”. I don’t see anything bad in it. This is my “true”
story of visit with God and if you do not believe tell me why you reject
my Mi’raj and accept Muhammad’s? My story is even more colorful with
more realistic details. I posted the whole extraordinary episode in my
site. Here it is.
About my great grand father splitting the Sun, as I
said this is a “true” story. It is as true as is Muhammad’s
splitting of the moon. You already said that splitting the moon is
scientific, so I do not understand why it is so difficult for you to
accept what I tell you about the miracles of my great grand father. I
challenge you to disprove it. You can call me a liar, but can you prove
that I am a liar? You also said the faith does not require proof, so why
are you asking for photos? Do you have any photos from Muhammad’s
splitting of the moon?
You asked why my great grand father split the Sun.
He did that for the same reasons that Muhammad split the Moon. Why did
Muhammad split the Moon? You asked “why he did not do something more
useful like splitting the neutron and become the next Einstein or why he
didn’t invented a PC or TV or other social work”. May I ask you why
Muhammad did not do what you are suggesting? Please answer that.
Rational thinking is thinking using your own brain.
One of the requirements of rational thinking is freethinking.
Freethinking means thinking independently without relying on an
authority to solve your problem. Freethinkers and rational thinkers
listen to everyone but they do not come to any decision because a
certain solution is given by a known and trusted authority. The final
authority to decide what is wrong and what is right is themselves.
Another characteristic of the rational thinkers is
that they rely on facts. They do not accept anything as true unless
there are solid facts proving it. This does not mean that they reject
all those things for which there is not evidence yet. But they will
remain skeptics until facts are found.
However there are things that go against logic,
science and human reason. Those things are not accepted by rational
thinkers. They belong to the real of fantasy, myths and fable.
Let me clarify this with an example. The early
pictures of the Mars revealed a rock formation that resembled a human
face. Some people started making stories about it. They said this is the
remnant of a lost civilization of early Martians whose planet was dying
and they made this face to solicit help from extramartian creatures.
Though this explanation was outlandish, it was not entirely absurd. A
rational thinker in this situation will not accept this hypothesis
because there is not enough evidence to support it. However because it
is not absolutely impossible, he will remain skeptic. People in NASA
never believed in the man’s face on the Mars. However they still went
there and took more pictures. The closer pictures showed that there is
no such a face. The lights and shadows in the early pictures made it
appear so. The reason NASA did not discard the whole thought is because
that theory though very improbable was not impossible.
But what about the story of Muhammad splitting the
Moon!? Do you think scientists should study this and talk about it? This
is the most foolish thought. How someone from the Earth can split
another planet? If such a phenomenon takes place, the two pieces of the
Moon will hit the Earth and all life will disappear in this planet for
at least few thousands of years. The Earth will be jolted from its
orbit. The clouds of dust will cover everything. All vegetation will
die. It will have the effect of hitting the Earth with two nitrogen
bombs each billions of times more powerful than the most powerful bomb
we have made yet. How is it that Muhammad could split the Moon in Mecca
and the inhabitants of Mecca see one half of the Moon in the right of
the Mount Hira and the other half in the left and the entire world
remain oblivious of it? How is it that the Meccans did not accept him
after witnessing such an amazing miracle? How come Muhammad rejected the
demands of the Meccans who kept asking for miracles? (See Miracles
of Muhammad)You are offended that I made fun of the brain of the
believers. If you don’t want to become the subject of laughter then
please do not make ridiculous statements. Those who make these fables
did not have a clue that Moon is a planet. They thought it is a lamp as
it says in the Quran. They had no idea of the gravitational force. How
splitting the Moon could be scientific? Would you like to elaborate on
What about the story of Noah? How can Mi’raj be
scientific? Is jinn scientific? Has anyone ever seen a jinn? How about
unicorns? Do they exist? These are childish beliefs. When you think like
a child how can you expect to be treated like an adult? When you believe
in irrational things how you want me to tell you what is rational
thinking? Okay, rational thinking is thinking completely opposite to the
way you think. That is rational thinking. This is not a personal attack.
This is a fact.
All the above stories are unscientific. They are
irrational and any one who believes in them is not a rational thinker.
This is the definition of rational thinking. I am not escaping from
explaining to you the meaning of rational thinking but it seems that you
are not getting it.
In contrast religious thinking is using the sacred
books as the authority to decide between right and wrong. A religious
man does not use his brain. He consults his holy book instead.
You see my friend, before I started to disprove
Islam; I read the entire Quran, most of the Hadiths and several other
Islamic books about the life of the Muhammad. If you want to win your
opponent, you have to know him. When you know him you can learn about
his weaknesses and then attack him. You did not read anything of what I
wrote. You don’t even pay attention to what I write specifically
addressed to you. You keep repeating the same questions over and over.
This is not rational thinking.
You ask, why I trust a surgeon and not a prophet. I
explained it clearly. The reason I trust the doctor to operate on me is
because he is licensed. In order to get his license he had to pass all
the exams and do some training in a hospital. There is a trusted
government institution certifying his qualification. I trust the doctor
because I trust the system.
What is the proof of the prophets? Nothing. They
just come and tell you they are prophets and you believe them. That is
all. I made the same claim too, why do you still argue with me? Why
don’t you believe me? What Muhammad produced as the proof that I
There is a difference in trusting a certified
doctor and an fake prophet. If the doctor was not certified I would not
believe in him. Please do not keep asking the same question over and
over. You either accept what I say or refute it by some sort of
reasoning or just move on. I do not have time to explain the same thing
You wrote, “Ok, ok you keep on telling that
Muhammad killed his enemy, but do you know that they were always given
the option to either except or be at war and at sometimes, it was to
either believe or pay JIZYA?”
How about me doing to you the same thing that
Muhammad did to others? How would you like if I tell you accept me as
the messenger of God or face the consequences? Suppose I have the
manpower and enough hungry gangsters and merciless brainwashed hounds
like Muhammad did. Is it fair? Do you think that would be right for me
to come and kill you, rape your wife and take your kids as slaves if you
refuse my religion? Do you still want me to tell you what is rational
thinking? This is rational thinking.
You wrote, “Ok what would you have done if you
were a ruler with hostile enemy around you? Would you have waited until
they get you killed in your own home.”
This is one of the most ridiculous lies that
Muslims love to tell. No one wanted to attack the Muslims. ALL
Muhammad’s wars were offensive. Please do not keep repeating the same
lies. Here is the text of the message that Mohammad sent to the Julanda
brothers the rulers of Oman:
"Peace be upon
the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call,
and you shall be unharmed. I am God's Messenger to mankind, and the word
shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize
Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam,
your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your
territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom."
(See the original
It is clear that
Muhammad was the aggressor. Was Persia threatening Islam? Was Syria
attack threatening Islam? Was Spain, Morocco, India, Byzantine,
Jerusalem or the rest of the world where Muslims invaded, looted, and
forced their religion threatening Islam? Tell me what country attacked
Islam first. The problem with Muslims is that they lie and they think
because this lie is for Islam it is okay. In fact Muslims would commit
murder, assassination and rape all for Islam and that is okay.
As far as praying, fasting, not drinking wine, not
consuming pork is concerned I don’t give a damn. Whether it is good or
bad it is your business. You are not allowed to impose any of that on
others or me. Keep your religion to yourself. That is what I say. Just
as you do not appreciate the followers of other religions dictate their
faiths on you, you should not dictate your religion on others.
You wrote, “if you say that I am cocooned in lie,
then you must prove and satisfy me,”
I think that is what I have done all along. Your
satisfaction depends on your capacity to understand rational thoughts.
When I explained to you the absurdity of the stories of Noah, Mi’raj,
jinns, splitting the Moon, etc. that was exactly what I was doing. I was
proving that those stories are lies, they are childish, they are stupid
and anyone who believes in these fairytales is cocooned in lies. There
are more lies in Islam; like Muhammad’s war were defensive, Islam
means peace, There is no compulsion in religion, women were given a some
status in Islam that they did not have prior to it, and more.
Islam is full of lies. Calling Muhammad’s expansionist wars
defensive is a huge lie that all Muslims know but keep repeating. You
know perfectly that this is a lie. Tell me one war were Muslims were
attacked and they had to defend themselves.
As for your question about the first cause, it is a
long subject, I have a couple of articles in my site. One of them is
mine and the other belongs to Avijit Roy. Please read them and then try
to refute them. I will not engage in any discussion on this topic until
you read these two articles. I hate repetitions.
I said that Islam is not scientific because all the
statements in Quran are unscientific. What you tried to explain is not
science. Science is not how a mullah explains the obtuse verses of Quran.
Rehashing some nonsense adorned with few scientific jargons is not the
substitute for science. Splitting the Moon, Noah’s ark and all the
nonsense in Quran are unscientific.
Islam is the fastest growing religion is yet
another lie. Visit any Iranian forum and you will see the percentage of
people who are against Islam. In Scandinavia there was a census, 50% of
the Iranians said they are atheist. 40% said they are Muslim by name.
Only 10% claimed to be practicing Muslims. Those who leave Islam do not
go advertising about it. They fear persecution. They know too well that
Muslims are criminals and will kill with clear conscience anyone who
decides to apostatize. That is why you don’t hear much about it. But
you hear that in the Internet because in the Internet people can say
whatever is in their heart without fearing you. As I said, the number of
the population in Muslim countries is on the rise because there is more
natality among the poor and uneducated people. Muslims generally are
poor and uneducated. The number of the Muslims in the West is also on
the rise because they are immigrating here for better life more than any
other group. But there are several times more people leaving Islam than
those embracing it. However, those who leave, leave silently and those
who embrace it are announced with trumpets. Those who leave are
generally highly educated intellectuals; those who embrace it are the
uneducated people from the intercities of America or the resentful
blacks trying to establish an identity that is in contrast with the
white man and the religion of the white man.
You wrote, “You don’t want religion to be in
anyway into public life is just another thing like “we want no laws,
we want a law free world”.
Personal principles are personal. If you want to
raise your children according to your principles you are welcome to do
so. But just as you do not appreciate a Jehowa Witness imposing his
personal laws on you, the rest of the world does not appreciate you to
impose Islamic laws on them. Belief must remain a private matter. If I
decide to leave Islam, do not say my prayers, drink wine or take my wife
to a beach, wearing bikini, it is none of your business. Your religious
practices also should not be of my concern.
In this world everyone should be free to choose the religion that
he likes and be an atheist if he so prefers. Just as you do not
appreciate me coming to your house with a gun and hand to you an
ultimatum like the one Muhammad sent to the rulers of Oman, we do not
appreciate Muslims forcing their religion on us. Reason dictates that to
keep the peace people must be free to choose the religion of their
choice. This is rational thinking.
Of course we need social laws, but those laws are
civil laws and apply to everyone equally. They are there to protect our
rights and our freedom. They do not discriminate against anyone for
belief, race or class. No one is zimmi or is forced to pay Jizyah
As for beating the women you wrote. “Well
according to my findings, Islam has allowed a man to beat his wife this
much light that not even a mark appears on her skin.”
First of all Quran does not say beat your wife so
lightly that not even a mark appear on her skin. This is another lie
concocted by the apologists for the consumption of the foolhardy.
Read Quran (4:34).
What is the purpose of beating if it is supposed not to hurt? Are you
really so naïf? Secondly
why beat the women? What are we supposed to establish by that? That we
are stronger? That we are the bosses? This is the most shameful
animalistic behavior. Shame on a man who raises his hand over a woman!
Shame on a man who does not condemn and tries to justify this barbaric
teaching! Even if the beating is “symbolic” as you pretend, that is
the symbolism of barbarity. It is inhumane to beat a woman even if it is
with a flower stem. Apart from beating, scolding her and shunning her
from the bed are also verbal, psychological, emotional and sexual
abuses. Beating is just another form of abuse. The whole Quran is based
on abuse of women. Shame on a man who would defend that abuse!
Men and women are equal. If there is an impasse
between them it is the man who should concede not the other way around.
Muhammad had a brain of a Neanderthal. He only knew one thing and that
was brutal force. For him might was right. When Muslims became strong he
started killing his opponents and that was the proof that his message
was from God. He thought men have the right over women and God has made
them excel over them because they were physically stronger. This sick
man thought like the beast of the Jungle. He had no understanding of the
inner strength of the humans. There are many qualities for which women
excel over men, like intuition, speech, affection, forbearance,
resourcefulness, and many more. But Muhammad could not see them because
he was a brute that could only see the animalistic force.
You wrote, “Believe me if this was another
Muslim, then forget the e-mail, he would have tracing your place and you
know what next.”
You don’t have to convince me on that. I know
that perfectly. Murder and assassination was the sunnah of the Prophet.
That is the way the Muslims have acted all the time. This is the true
Islam. Thank you for being so frank. Most Muslims like to lie about it.
They deny it and often quote “to you your religion and to me mine” a
verse that Muhammad forgot when he went to Medina and became powerful.
Deceit is what Islam is all about. When you are weak, you say Islam is
the religion of peace but as soon as you can you go killing your
Thank you for your reply; I just had a
feeling of not receiving a reply due to delay in the reply. But well;
now I am feeling quite happy after I understood more about you. But
believe me (only if you like, no hard feelings if you don’t) I just
tonight was discussing your way of reply with one of my very close
friend, while comparing with someone else I knew and we both agreed that
you don’t attack other person personally. But sorry this last proved
it to be all wrong. Yeah, yeah, I know man is not as perfect to judge
any one perfectly, but know what “we understand by our mistakes”.
Ali, know what? Roy Avijit’s article linked on your site is more then
easy to be proved wrong. Actually he has used a very old way, and I also
checked your “Quranic Contradictions”, it is somewhat also written
on the same old principle. I will be glad to send you my answers to
them, once I complete reading them thoroughly.
“The full correspondence with Usman is in 3
parts. I found it interesting because I could peep into the mind
of a true believer. The mind of a believer is a world in it own. If Marx
was wrong in everything, he was right when he said religion is the
opiate of the masses. A religious brain is indeed a brain on drugs.
with Usman Malik”
Yes I looked into your new pages, but you know were nothing but
bad humor, and you must know, if you can “peep” into someone’s
mind that laughing at other is the easiest thing to do when you can do
nothing. (Ali, I challenge you to write this whole e-mail, as it is in
PART IV (usman4.htm), if you think that you have courage to have free
speech J ). Now the next thing is that are you still serious to have
this discussion with me?
Wow, that was awesome; its for your grand dad, you
know I was quite amazed. But did he also claim Prophecy right after
that? And by the way why did he do that, I mean reason? He could do
something more well like splitting the neutron and be the next Einstein.
And why didn’t he invented a PC or TV right away, you know, “SOCIAL
Personally I didn’t like the idea of yours of
displaying my whole conversation with you on your website, it might have
increased the content for your website, but… ok if it helped you in
anyway, I am more then ever egger to help you more in this part. May be
more people like, Roy Avijit will also be from now on to help you, on
how to answer me (multiple brains, generate more brain power). You will
be glad to find more convincing e-mail from me (feeds for your site).
By the way, you don’t answer me about everything.
I asked about your rational thinking and you escaped it with that its
like art or music. But I think these both the forms of arts are
explained able, if not teach able. Of course you cannot transfer
creativity but you can transfer your feelings in a paragraph, if you
know how to. What do think of meever , I on Tue, 05 Jun 2001’s e-mail
explained you my point of view and you escaped it with that as you
don’t know him you can’t comment.
Now you might be thinking that I haven’t yet
discussed your actual article, well, sorry for delay. Ok from below it
is the actual discussion.
Why do you believe on a paper issued by a human,
don’t you think that “imperfect human” can be wrong in his/her
decision? You might have heard of cases of “doctor’s mischief killed
a person” and so on. Ali, your views change so quickly that it is even
hard for an F1 macleran to follow. At one place you deny a prophet as he
is “imperfect Human” (prophet) and at other place you are more then
happy to sit under the knife of another “imperfect human” (doctor).
And know what, the first person was telling you to believe him, when you
are in your senses, but with other one, you might be unconscious. So
next time you visit a surgeon, think twice!!!
Ok, ok you keep on telling that Muhammad killed his
enemy, but do you know that they were always given the option to either
except or be at war, and at sometimes, it was to either believe or pay
JIZYA. Even the above two things were second to the preaching them
through a person, and conveying them the message.
Ok what would you have done if you were a ruler
with hostile enemy around you?
Would you have waited until they get you killed in
your own home, like of Usman (Ottoman) who prefer to die then to kill
the rebels. Or what about Ali, when in a war, he was about to kill the
knocked-down enemy, he spitted on his face, instead of killing him, Ali
asked him to leave as now this is not for Islam, this is now personal.
What about Muhammad when he captured Makkah and announced amnesty to
everyone? And these are not the only examples, but there are tons of
Muslims, believe on spending their life in a way
that it is not solely spent in a corner of world, with no interaction
with and knowledge of around. Islam is that you live in this world, you
develop this world, you take path in research, and so, but all in the
limits. And these limits are what we call the Islam.
Praying five times a day, fasting for a month, and
doing a hajj in life, in no way hinder any of the works. Do you think
that it is bad in Islam, that it has said strong words against wine?
Don’t you think that its scientifically known side effects were not
known to anyone 1400 years ago? Then how could someone tell that? Eating
pork is forbidden in Islam, why? It leads to diseases of liver and so
on, even can lead to exposure to round worms. How did they ever come to
know all this 1400 years ago? Well quite amazing, don’t you think so?
Well the thing you said about TV and computers,
remind me of MAN E-SALVA. Why don’t we all post this message to our
“URGENT: We need a GOD/ALLAH, who can give us
answers to different things like:
1) Reality of UFOs. 2) Genetic code of Human in
HTML and FLASH format, and PDF will count a plus point. 3) Teleportation
method. 4) 100% look real US dollars (quantity: as much as we need and
no matter when). 5) Provide us servers for our home, with multiprocessor
support and terabyte disk storage. 6) Direct Internet connection to His
Intranet, just to ensure maximum speed. 7) Not to mention the free
tech-support for unlimited years.
NOTE: We might ask for more, which are not
mentioned above. And also keep in mind that we are under no obligation
to follow you even after that and that means no product return.
FOR WEBMASTERS: you might add according to your
needs, but please drop an e-mail about it at freethinkers @
Otherwise it will be considered a breach of our
copyright projected notice.”
I hope that you like the above message. And hope
that you got the real meaning.
Ali, as you have a wide experience of being and
being with Atheists, can you tell me that is this intentional that you
all just make a hill out of a mole o just unintentional? Just like in
last e-mail it was Santa and in this the splitting of moon. Next time
you write me reply please avoid this, as this make the serious stuff,
Not again. I have explained this (your view of
killing) already in the article.
And what was contrary to what I said?? Please try
to make your writing specific, especially replies. More suggestions will
pop up as you read.
And Ali when you failed to reason your own view, by
explaining it and making it clear on me, you just decided to make me
target. Never mind may be I would have seen such remarks if it was
anyone else (of your category), may be you all do this to hide from the
Thank you for appreciating my state of being open
minded J. By the way there was no need to mention it. I knew it already.
And your grand father is indeed a person to meet. As I have already
asked you a question about him, add another one. Is he alive? I want to
Have you ever heard “…things of past,
reality of today. Fiction of today, reality of tomorrow and reality of
today history of tomorrow…” If you didn’t then too bad, try to get
into society of intellectuals. This might have got you to some
conclusion, hope fully.
It is not true for everyone, to not accept the
truth. Just to give you my example, I would ask for proof. In same way
as I believe in Islam, because, I have proof. Just to tell you my very
personal view, if someday, we all come to see Allah/God then religion
will be simply of no need, then it will be knowledge, which is not
religion. Also don’t put finger at me like that, if you say that I am
cocooned in lie, then you must prove and satisfy me, otherwise this all
discussion will be all in vain.
Ali, do you believe that anything can start by its
self. According to Newton’s law of motion, a body at rest remains at
rest unless a force is applied on it, and a body in motion remains in
motion, until it undergoes a resistive force, equal to the force applied
on it. If you don’t then please look into elementary books of Physics
at a local bookshop. Now if you read that there, how will you explain
that single cell to be have evolved to this complex human and other life
structure, without been triggered? Ali I want you to answer this.
As you have answered the “whom to follow” at
the end, therefore I will like to explain it at the end too J
Oh! Come one Ali, stop praising, me so much. I know
how much appreciation I deserve and that I will explain to you when this
all discussion ends. At the end of this whole debate, I would like to
reveal some very amazing facts too. But actually can’t talk about them
much. They might not be funny as your claims but they will be based on
Now how can you complain that Islam has no relation
with science and that it is anti-science when you just tell me that I am
wrong by stating my prove as “pseudo-science”. Can’t do much about
that, as my writings are for those who think after becoming neutral. Not
for someone who still regrets that why the people in his grand
father’s time didn’t had digital cameras to record the splitting. So
he could show it later to the public to support his prophecy. Ali, will
you do the same with the proves that your studies are wrong claiming
them to be “pseudo-science”?
I have already talked in start about your answer to
my question about rational thinking. I think that was enough. Wasn’t
Well it really escaped my attention. Sorry. But it
was equally interesting, believe me.
You escape cleverly from my question. But believe
me, this is in profit to no one. Only if you answer me to my questions
right, only then we can have a type of discussion called “fair
discussion”. Also to be posting of this on you site is an SOS to the
fellow ring members. Right??
As you tried to escape from the fact of Islam, as
fastest spreading religion.
You just tried a common trick. In indo-Pakistan,
this is known in a folk saying, “Pigeon closes its eyes on seeing cat,
and thinks to be on safe side”. Ali, if you think that people leaving
Islam are in far more number then I would like to see a prove. I
provided you with a fact, a fact supplied to you through a widely
claimed book. You got some complaint over that; best thing is to send
this comment to Guinness book of world Record. Ask them to revise it and
try an online petition for this reason. I am sure that this will more
then satisfy you.
Don’t worry I am preparing answer to Roy and your
article, but have feeling that you will again decorate it with your
classic term “P-science”.
You don’t want religion to be in anyway into
public life is just another thing like “we want no laws, we want a law
free world”. Ali due to interaction with you from last month I offer
you my services to make even a banner for this purpose too. Yes for
Ali I suggest you to make a search of “Hutchison
Effect” in the “google.com” and do let me know why this guy’s
theory is not taught in our elementary school along with Newton’s and
Einstein’s? Do we have to wait until he gets old enough, as they were?
Due to your question I had to consult a number of
religious books, to explain this (the said abuse on women). Well
according to my findings, Islam has allowed a man to beat his wife this
much light that not even a mark appears on her skin.
But this is the last stage. If you have any
conflict with your wife, you have to first explain your point of view
and give her opportunity to tell her perspective. Either the solution
will be found in this process, and if not then leave them, and don’t
even sleep them. This act of leaving doesn’t mean divorce but just
staying silent. Then if your wife even then doesn’t stop from that,
then the beating comes in tact. If your wife agrees of it afterwards
then never ever use that thing to target her at anytime. And if she
doesn’t then give her a divorce, which is the Allah, don’t like. I
don’t know what you’ve been reading in this regard. But your
questions will always be welcomed, like before.
Believe me if this was another Muslim, then forget
the e-mail, he would have tracing your place and you know what next. But
since I my self asked you for challenge, which you misunderstood in a
way, I am ready. But still some moral values will have to be kept in
mind and you know which one. By the way after you receive the first
e-mail from Allah, can you kindly tell me that the website where the
Allah has e-mail account, is this “Gabriel.gov.div”. Or is
this all a direct e-mail system?
As for the first prove I want you to show me the
book, like Quran, that explains the whole, and each and every system
around us. As I know you for a time, a relaxation, don’t include
Arrabs, if in Arabic, and if in English, no need for a hard back cover
I am looking eagerly to the reply to my questions
and challenges. And by the way, as you know that in this digital age you
might be too much close to Allah, I want you to tomorrow, in BBC’s
regular transmission, why don’t you ask Allah to add your holy
book’s translation in 15 languages. I know that it will be a no
problem for an e-powered
Part II Part III