Leaving Islam



Yamin Zakaria vs. Ali Sina 

Part III Page 18

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As for what the US did to the few escape goats offering light sentences does not remotely constitute justice and largely propaganda trials. So that the likes of Mr Sina can feel good that ‘democracy’ is working. As the crimes were committed on Iraqi soil they should have been judged by the Iraqis and had the situation been reversed this is exactly what the US would have demanded!

I think the culprits were punished more than what they deserved. 15 years in jail is almost the punishment of manslaughter. These were American soldiers violating their military code of conduct. They were court marshaled by the American military. This is the procedure. Had they been civilians, they would have been handed to the Iraqi authorities. The crime of these American soldiers was light compared to what Muslims do to each other. Do you know what kind of tortures the Iranian Mullahs do to their own people? Abu Ghraib in comparison is picnic. Where is the outcry of the Muslims? Saddam tortured and murdered the Iraqis in much worse ways. Did you ever condemn him? If you think 15 years jail is light sentence what are you asking for your terrorist brothers? You are not even condemning them. You are praising them. Your hypocrisy and double standard is loud and clear Mr. Zakaria.  Didn't I tell you not to fuss too much about the $50,000 dollars reward? Now probably you would give me $50,000 dollars to not to publish this debate. Of course you may not even know when you are defeated. This is an Islamic quality. 


Then Mr Sina brings the incident of Kinnan (from the Life of the Prophet (SAW)) which is incorrect analogy. Kinnan was executed for violating the terms agreement with the Muslims. Remember the so-called “Golden Rule” has no way of determining the level of retribution that should be given. The incident was not sadistic torture of innocents like in Abu-Ghraib style for ‘fun’ and satisfying sexual perversions, so the analogy is incorrect. Furthermore, the Prophet by his actions is defining a law so which other laws can be used to judge Him as a Prophet? Indeed Mr Sina is confused on basic principles.


What terms of agreement Kinana violated? Muhammad attacked his town Kheibar at dawn when people opened the gates of the fortress and went out to the fields after their farming and their daily business. He and his cavalry entered the city and started their killing spree. Kinana was in one of the fortresses of Kheibar. After it became clear that resistance is futile they offered to surrender if Muhammad spared their lives. Muhammad agreed but made the condition that they give him all their wealth and properties. They agreed. Did they have any other option? Kinana was the treasurer of the town. He had hidden the treasures of the city in a ruin. A treacherous Jew, perhaps to win Muhammad’s favor and save his own neck, tipped him off. Muhammad brought Kinana and told him to tell him about the treasures. He did not and so Muhammad tortured him, branded his eyes with hot iron rod, burned his body and then beheaded him. What agreement did he violate? If a thief grabs you and tells you he will kill you if you do not give him all your money and you agree but then decide to hide some for yourself, are you breaking the terms of your agreement? Is that an agreement? Is that the way a messenger of God must behave? Where is your conscience and humanity Mr. Zakaria? You have made it clear that you are a follower of Satan. The more you defend this criminal prophet of yours the more you show our readers the evil nature of Islam. Why is that so? It is because you mock the Golden Rule, the very thing that makes us humans, humans. .  

You say “The incident was not sadistic torture of innocents like in Abu-Ghraib style for ‘fun’ and satisfying sexual perversions..” …. Really!?  

Muhammad tortured this young man to make him reveal where he had hidden the treasures. No it was not for 'fun'. It was for greed. Is it okay to torture people for money? As Ibn Ishaq reportsThe apostle of Allah handed him over to al‑Zubayr, saying, 'Torture him until he tells what he knows', and al‑Zubayr kindled a fire on his chest so that he almost expired; then the apostle gave him to Muhammad b. Maslama, who struck off his head." This is from the abridged version of the Sira. Tabari gives a gory detail of the torture. After beheading the youthful Kinana Muhammad takes his 17 year old wife to his tent and rapes her. He is now 57 year old with fetid mouth and smelly body. And you say this is not comparable to humiliating a bunch of Muslim terrorists in Abu Ghraib? Why are you so unfair? ....Because you have no regards for the Golden Rule. Those who mistreated the prisoners of Abu Ghraib are not the prophets of the Americans. They are their criminals and are spending time in jail. And yet you follow Muhammad and he is your prophet "(SAW)". Have you ever thought why Allah did not reveal to Muhammad the whereabouts of the treasures? Muhammad received a lot of revelations allowing him to break his treaties and licensing him to have sex with any woman he desired. Why he never received a revelation about something he could not have possibly known such as the whereabouts of these treasures?  

You say: “Furthermore, the Prophet by his actions is defining a law so which other laws can be used to judge Him as a Prophet?”  

So just because he claimed to be a prophet he can break all the laws of decency, ethics and justice and do as he pleases because he is the one who defines the law? Has it ever occur to you that he could have been an impostor? What if this thing Muhammad used to see was Satan and not Gabriel? How shall we know that he was a prophet of God and not of Satan? Jesus said “Ye shall know them by their fruit”. It is not that I believe Jesus was a prophet, but these are very wise words. The actions of Muhammad were satanic. His fruits were bitter.  

You have placed the cart before the horse. We must not define right and wrong by the actions of a man who claims to be a prophet but rather evaluate his claim by his actions. This is elemental logic. Can we use the same criteria for all the prophet pretenders and say for example Charles Manson defines what is right and wrong and his actions should not be evaluated by the Golden Rule? Why Muslims are unable to see these simple logics? Don’t you Muslims feel ashamed of this much stupidity? And you have the chutzpa to demand respect? What part of your actions or belief is respectable? You must be despised for these reprehensible beliefs not respected.  I promise this is going to happen. As the world come to learn the true Islam and hear it from your own mouths, everyone will scorn Islam and all of you will be despised. Today 44% of Americans think Muslim’s civil rights should be taken away from them. This is 44 points rise since three and half years ago. Soon this number will rise to 88%. You are too dumb to make the transition on your own. Logic has no effect on you. You need a “gentle” push and that “gentle” push will be given to you in a very humiliating way. This must happen because only through his public humiliation many of you will wake up and end this insanity.

Twisted Morality and Iraq War

The birth of US was soaked in the blood of seventy million peaceful Native Americans, followed by the brutal African slave trade. Then the colonial expedition of terrorising the world started with the phoney Spanish-American wars killing over 500,000 Philippinos and she also terrorised Central and Latin America . The killing of innocent civilians climaxed in Hiroshima , Nagasaki , Dresden , Vietnam , Korea , etc. where the art of real mass terrorism was developed. I can go on giving endless examples. Yet none of this seems to register in Mr Sina’s scale of twisted morality. Mr Sina needs to understand that the US is propelled by corporate profit as a capitalist state not by any principle like the so-called “Golden-Rule”.  


As usual you are engaging in logical fallacies of tu quoque and red herring and you are mixing apples and oranges. Whatever the Spaniards did to the Incas or the Americans did in Hiroshima have nothing to do with our discussion about Muhammad. Apart from the fact that you are grossly misrepresenting the truth, the history of American wars is not our subject of discussion. Today’s people are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors. Even if whatever you said were true, none of that proves that Muhammad was a prophet of God or can acquit him of his crimes. If an American administration or anyone else has done something wrong no one is proud of that and no one is taking those actions as model to follow. No one is saying those men of centuries or decades ago define what is right and wrong. The standard is the Golden Rule and as the case of Abu Ghraib shows, if a few Americans break that Rule everyone else condemn them and bring down their stick to punish them. But you are not only oblivious of the crimes perpetrated by Muhammad. You go even as far as to say he set the standard and defined the right and wrong. If he set the standard, why you complain if the American prison guards mistreated their prisoners in Abu Ghraib? They were following the examples of your prophet in a very small scale. Or is it that only Muslims are allowed to torture and abuse? Of course you say torture and abuse per se are not bad. If Muhammad and his followers torture their opponents that is divine; it is all justifiable, but if it is the other way round then it is an unforgivable crime. This is moral relativism. But you are not even hiding it. You are the one that scuff  the Golden Rule. You are the one who says we Muslims can do all evil deeds because we do not follow the norms of the Golden Rule. We follow the examples set by our prophet; but you are not allowed to reciprocate and do the same to us because you are not Muslims and must follow the Golden Rule.  

The Golden Rule is a fancy name for fairness. When you say the Golden Rule is an evil cult of Ali Sina, you are attacking the very concept of fairness. How can God send us a religion that is unfair? How can his prophet break the rules of fairness?  

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