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Mr. Shahid Bin Waheed challenged me to a debate. I agreed but he decided not to debate in the forum but rather invited me to appear in front of a video camera. The following was my response and what followed:

Dear Shahid

As for debate, of course you are asking something that you know is not very realistic. If I allow myself to be pictured and videoed, how long you think it will take until I become a dead man? Have you seen the kind of loving threats that the Muslims send me and I publish in the Muslimsí Comment page in my site?  

Now, I donít see why we should not be able to conduct the debate through the Internet. The debate can be read by thousands of people at their leisure even years from now.

Nadir Ahmad avoided debating with you by asking for very unrealistic conditions. His conditions were absurd and a clear indication that he is trying to avoid the debate. Now you are proposing an even more absurd condition for the debate. Is it because you do not want to face the truth? Anyway if you change your mind and accept to debate through the Internet, I am always ready. Otherwise I invite you again, to discuss this matter with me in private. In this way you'll feel more comfortable admitting the truth.

I also sent you personal emails asking you to rethink your allegiance a man unfit to be called a human and invited you to read the articles that I have written refuting Islam. I told you that Islam is a sinking ship and you are only wasting your time building an Islamic site and promoting a cult of terror. What you get out of it? People of the world are waking up and Muslims are becoming the target of scorn and ridicule. When you die youíll be very disappointed for having followed the falsest religion on earth and very ashamed in front of your creator who will ask you, ďDidnít I send you Ali Sina to warn you that you are misguided? Didnít I give you a brain to use? What are you going to tell him? You will be dejected here and rejected there. This is a bad business indeed.  

Dear Shahib, there is still time. Go to my site and read my articles. There are only two possibilities. a) I am right b) I am wrong. If I am right, then you will be a very happy man to leave a falsehood and join the truth. But if I am wrong you must be able to prove me wrong. I think this is very fair and logical?

Take care

Ali Sina


Shahid responded:

SBWUS: As for your excuse is concerned to avoid an open debate it is not acceptable any rational person, let alone me. Because I have never seen some one got killed because of his/her ignorance. My family and I have been victims of hate crimes three times. One was a deadly attack that we survived, Christians perpetrated all. Beside that I have death threats right on my face in person and then I have death sentences awarded by thugs like Murtadd-e-Azam Osama Abdallah and Nadir Ahmed, who have repeatedly published and motivated people to kill me. But I am not hiding and in fact, I have challenged these people for open debate. I strongly suspect that realistically, you like to attack Islam and Muslims from behind the nameless and faceless medium of Internet, since you have no real substance to stand upon for two minutes in a debate. Therefore, your and your buddies use this as pretext and/or excuse to avoid an open and face to face debate. Last but not least, I cannot accept your excuse and as I have said before, I donít play pseudo-games and I donít participate in pseudo-debates. By the way, how you intend to convince people that you are a real person with solid proof and/or arguments against Islaam, Quríaan, Muhammad (SAW) and Muslims? No wonder people donít take you seriously and believe that you are a henchman of website ďanswering-islam.org.Ē

I like to read people who have animated minds and I like those who can process. That is why I am different than those mainly 6/7 idiot websites supposedly operated by so-called Muslims. As I have said at your message board and I don't give a damn if some one allegedly leaves Islaam and I don't give a hoot if some one converts to Islaam. I am also not in business to make the anti-Islaam elements look good before their constituencies. The open debate I have challneged to all @ http://www.examine-the-truth.com/challenge.htm and earlier many times to most of the people have always same terms. I am also not desperate and dying to be underspotlight like the thug Nadir Ahmed. Threfore, as I have said before I say it again, that I am the challneger who demand an open debate based on the simple rule: SINK or SWIM,  if one got something that you have prove against or for Islaam, one will be victorious forvever and the proof of our claims and the outcome will be a testament on Internet, via VCD and/or DVDs etc.

Truth is always faced in person and face to face and not behind the desktop using a nameless and faceless medium i.e. Internet. As far as Nadir Ahmed the thug goes, he is TOAST not me as he bragged about bullshitting at your message board. Nadir Ahmed can run and he can't hide from debating me; unless he give up his bullshit. That is why I have posted at your message board naming the names of the thugs that if you want to screw them in debate, you will get help from me and we will see how Nadir Ahmed and his cartel  escape this, if I am asked to help their oppenents.

Indeed, you have sent me personal email motivating me to leave Islaam. But so far I have found nothing substential, which may result leaving my chair let alone Islaam. However, my debate challnege is a golden opportunity for Christians (manily of website answering-islam.org like Jochan Katz, Sam Shamoun and Silas to name few) and most importantly you  to convice me to join eighter side. So, why don't you accept my challnege for an open public debate, prevailing in that debate will enable you to reach countless people with your message.

As for your excuse is concerned to avoid an open debate it is not acceptable any rational person, let alone me. Because I have never seen some one got killed because of his/her ignorance.


 

Dear Shahib,

I fully agree with you. No sane person kills ignorant people. In fact we have over a billion ignorant people living in this planet with total freedom and their rights are protected by the civilized people of the world. It is the intelligent people who are often killed by ignorant people. This tradition of killing the intellectuals dates back to the time of Muhammad who ordered the assassination of poets and his critics. Perhaps you are familiar with names such as Abu Afak, Asma bint Marvan and Kaíb ibn Ashraf. These people were assassinated by Muhammadís men at his behest only because they composed poems denouncing Muhammad.  

The tradition of assassinations has continued up to this day and as you know the Murtads or the apostates of Islam get killed. The most celebrated case is the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, which even Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) approved and a couple of his translators were assassinated. Ahmad Kasravi was also assassinated, Ali Dashti passed his last years in jail, and even Rashad Khalifa was murdered accused of apostasy. Thousands of Bahais and Ahamadis were murdered only because they were considered to be murtatd.  

Perhaps this hadith can make the point clear:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

If you do not want to believe in that hadith may be the following verse of the Quran will make you see the truth:

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, (Q.4: 89

Here we see Muhammad is telling his followers to abandon friendship of those Muslims who do not leave Mecca and then he says kill them if they return to their families.  

This shows that Islam is a cult. Jim Jones was also paranoid about those followers who left him and he ordered those who wanted to desert him to be killed. Jim Jones and Muhammad were both psychopaths.  

I am sorry to hear that your family has been the victim of hate crime. But I donít think the perpetrators were Christians. Christianity does not advocate violence. Now that does not mean that some Christians do not commit acts of violence, but one could always argue that what they do is derived out of the ignorance of the tenets of their Faith. So I think you and your family became victims of violence by those who are afraid of Islam and not necessarily Christians. Many people are afraid of Islam and that is for very valid reasons.  

But in Islam violence is prescribed as a pillar of faith and it was practiced by Muhammad. Violence in Islam is an institution.  

Take for example these verses:  

ďFighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for youĒ? (Q.2:216).

Is really fighting good for people? But when this did not work he coerced them with the following:  

ďUnless ye go forth, He (Allah) will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your placeĒ?  (Q.9:39).

Although I do not condone or justify violence, I can predict that the violence against Muslims is going to get worse. The more your brothers commit acts of violence, beheadings, suicide bombings and murders, the more the public opinion is turned against the Muslims and Muslims become targets of hate. This is very human.  

I hope people read my site and realize that Muslims are victims. I have helped a lot of people to see that there is a difference between Muslims and Islam and although this ideology of hate has to be eradicated, Muslims must not become the target of hate. After all Muslims, once abandon Islam become the best allies of the civilized world and they fight with more determination to slay Islam and free their brethren from the bondage of this evil cult.  

So if you do not want to become a target of violence, I suggest you shave and clothe like decent people. I assume you and your wife still dress with Islamic attire. Well people associate that dress with terrorists and for very good reasons. So why look like a terrorist when you are not? Wear decent clothing and tell your wife to take off that veil of shame and youíll see that peopleís attitude towards you changes dramatically. I dress like any other person walking in the street and I never feel any hostility and discrimination. 

You wrote: 
"Beside that I have death threats right on my face in person and then I have death sentences awarded by thugs like Murtadd-e-Azam Osama Abdallah and Nadir Ahmed, who have repeatedly published and motivated people to kill me."

I donít know who Osama Abdallah is. But that title, Murtadd-e-Azam, belongs to me and no one else. I doubt Mr. Osama Abdallah thinks of himself as a Murtad. So please let us stop accusing people of things that they do not agree. They believe in Muhammad just as you do. You are however angry at each other. This does not make either one of you Murtad. You are all Muslims and it is the nature of Muslims to hate each other and fight amongst one another. This is a tradition that Muhammad established. Do you remember the mosque that he ordered to be burned with its worshippers inside after he returned from Tabuk? Well those were Muslims, they built that mosque and invited him to visit them and ďblessĒ their mosque with his presence. Other Muslims, who were jealous, badmouthed them and Muhammad ordered their mosque and them to be burnt.  

This tradition continued when Ali massacred thousands of Kawarej and the fratricide war between Muslims began. Even today we constantly hear that Sunnis kill the Shiites in Pakistan .  

So my dear Shahib, the fact that you and other Muslims do not get along is no news. Muslims canít get along with anyone and that is thanks to their evil belief system. You are all Muslims my friend. The Murtadd-e Azam (The Great Apostate) is no one but yours truly.  

Now if you think killing people for what they believe is wrong, then you are not a Muslim and I invite you to investigate what I say and leave Islam. You wonít be able to destroy thugs like Nadir while you are part of his gang. You have to come out of Islam first. Join me and together we will destroy Islam and reduce thugs such as Nadir to naught.  

You wrote: 
"But I am not hiding and in fact, I have challenged these people for open debate.

Yes you did that and Nadir admitted that he is afraid to confront you. So leave it at that. You are already the winner. Now let us move on and instead of wasting your energy on individuals like Nadir, find out the facts about Muhammad. Youíll be surprised to learn that that man was the master of all the thugs.  

I strongly suspect that realistically, you like to attack Islam and Muslims from behind the nameless and faceless medium of Internet, since you have no real substance to stand upon for two minutes in a debate.  

Yes, I really want to attack Islam from behind a nameless and faceless medium of Internet. I find this a most wonderful tool to fight Islam while still I can go out without constantly looking over my shoulder. After all who cares about me, my name and face? I am not asking anyone to believe anything I say because of my authority. I encourage people to doubt every word I say and verify it on their own. That is why I hardly ever give my opinions, whatever I say is backed by the Islamic sources such as the Quran, hadith and the authentic books of history like Sira and Tabari.  

Now, do I have any ground (substance) to stand upon? That is something we will find out once we start debating. Who knows! You may be right and I may have missed a crucial point that you can make me see. If that happen then of course we will both win. You win by showing my errors and I win by finding the truth. I think this is a win/win situation. Of course the reverse is true too. Or at least I hope youíll have the same commitment to the truth that I have and will leave Islam if and when I prove to you that Muhammad was only a charlatan cult leader and a very evil man indeed.  

You wrote: 
You and your buddies use this as pretext and/or excuse to avoid an open and face to face debate.  

What is the point in face to face debate? That kind of debate is mostly for entertainment. We donít want to see who is a better debater or who has more charisma. I am sure you must be a very good debater with a lot of charisma. But I am not there to seek personal gain and popularity. I want the debate between ideas not between personalities.  

I like written debate because this allows me to prepare my responses, find the appropriate quotes and in general produce a more thoughtful and intelligent argument. This makes the debate more meaningful and interesting. Of course personal safety is also important to me.  

Last but not least, I cannot accept your excuse and as I have said before, I donít play pseudo-games and I donít participate in pseudo-debates.  

Well you are already debating with me. All you have to do is to carry on. Weíll later publish these email exchanges in our respective sites.  

You wrote: 
By the way, how you intend to convince people that you are a real person with solid proof and/or arguments against Islaam, Quríaan, Muhammad (SAW) and Muslims? No wonder people donít take you seriously and believe that you are a henchman of website ďanswering-islam.org.Ē  

That is okay. As I said I am not asking anyone to believe in anything I say. I encourage people to doubt me. After all I could be, as you say, ďa henchman of the answering-IslamĒ a Zionist or anything. So why should anyone in his right mind believe whatever I say. I do not want people believe in my words. That is why I always back my statements with proofs.  

I like that attitude. I like when you start doubting. You should never accept anyone blindly. Now tell me dear Shahib, have you ever asked yourself what proof Muhammad brought to back his claim?  

Think about it. Muhammad gained a lot by that claim. He was a poor man and he became the king of Arabia , he had control over peopleís lives. He slept with any woman he wanted. What was his proof? Nothing! He simply made the claim and demanded obedience.  

On the other hand I am asking nothing for myself. I stand to gain nothing if you believe me. Also I am not asking anyone to take my words as the truth but I am asking you to investigate. I prove whatever I say with facts and documents.  

What ever I say is logical and commonsense. Muhammadís claims are outlandish. He said that he rode a horse and climbed to the seventh heaven. Isnít that the most bizarre tale? He said a couple of angels came to him opened his chest, washed his heart and filled it with wisdom that they brought on a platter of gold. Now isnít that ridiculous? Can you put wisdom on a platter? Is wisdom a material object? Can you fill someoneís heart with wisdom like you stuff a turkey? Shouldnít wisdom be placed in the brain and not in the heart? Donít you find these stories stupid? Muhammad claimed that he split the moon. Is that logical to you? He claimed to have visited the Jinns and converted them to Islam. These are stupid tales my friend. You have no difficulty believing in a man who told such asinine stories and stood to gain so much from those lies and you demand no proof. Isnít this absurd? What were Muhammadís credentials? None! You simply choose to believe in him blindly.  

I am not asking you to believe in me. I want you to doubt me and verify my claim. I am not standing to gain anything either.  But you still want to know who am I? Who cares!  

I am giving you facts that you can verify on your own. Who cares who am I? Say if someone tells you the Earth is round and proves it to you, why would you want to know about that person? You can find out this fact on your own too. My person, my credibility and authority are irrelevant here. You can see whatever I say on your own. These facts stand on their own merit and are valid even if I am proven to be the greatest liar in the world.  

The claim of Muhammad, however have to do a lot with his credibility. Why is it that you believe in that man when he was unable to prove any of his claims and his credibility is doubtful?


2004/10/16

Greetings Mr. Ali Sina

I noticed that you have literally attempted to employ tactics to the kind of debate you have always been fond of. However, this would be my last email on this subject matter, since I donít debate the way you like. By the way I am not sure which pseudo-Islaamic cult you belonged to before you left Islaam allegedly. There is no such thing as vigilante justice in Islaam. Your assertions are incorrect rather an outright misrepresentation of truth. Yusuf Islam never approved killings. Beside that the Fatwa against Salam Rushdi (who is still living and alive) was given by Khomeni, and not a Muslim. In Islaam, punishment of apostasy is a Hudd punishment and the Islaamic State/Judge can only implement that after due process. Rasad Khalifa may have been killed because he raped an under age girl, but there is no proof for your assertion. You seem to be eager to balme Muslims for every death or killing.

Please give me a break; we know who were the perpetrators of hate crimes against my family and property were, with 100% certainty, and they were Christians because we have the evidences. By the way during that time we were not the only victim of hate crimes against Muslims. Hate crimes against Muslims have increased in USA after 9/11 1600% according to FBI. Despite of that I wrote an article titled: Responsibility of Muslims Living in USA.  http://www.rense.com/general35/dnne.htm  This article was published by Rensence.com a website with over EIGHT million visitors each month. First hate crime against us was right after Palestinian Intifadah began, and two were right after 9/11. These hate crimes took place before my relationship to Murtadd-e-Azam Osama Abdallah and Nadir Ahmed the thug went sour. Nevertheless, that didnít stop be to go underground.

Bottom line Mr. Ali Sina, though I have noticed that you have already started your generalization and attacks against Islaam and Prophet of Islaam in a very bigoted fashion to drag me into a kind of debate, that benefits your agenda. But I hate to disappoint you that I have always available to the people whom I have challenged for an open public debate many times during the course of years and lately published and/or posted at your website and mine  @ Challenge for Open Public Debate in Front of Video Camera

http://www.examine-the-truth.com/challenge.htm

I would love to face you in an open public debate before the video camera and would love to respond to your claims and would love to impeach you for your allegations. But there would be no further dailogue via email and/or at any forum and/or website in this regard. Anyone can publish anything on the Internet, especially at their website. Please feel free to contact me once you are ready for real debate i.e. An open public debate in fornt of video camera.  By the way why rest of those who have been challnged are mute, what they are afraid of, they are:  

  1.  Mr. Ibn Warraq (spelling?)

  2. Mr. Ali Sina of Faith Freedom.org

  3. Sam Shamoun

  4. Jochan Katz

  5. Nadir Ahmed of Examine the Truth.com       ON THE RUN

  6. Osama Abdallah of answering-christianity.com

  7. Akbarally Meherally of most merciful.com

  8. Farooq Ibrahim (invited for debate on 10-06-04)

  9.  Open for any other qualified individual[s]

Best regards

Shahid


Dear Shahid

I am afraid your information about Yusuf Islam and his support of the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie is not correct.

"Yusuf Islam was alleged to have fully supported the fatwa proclaimed by the Ayatollah against Salman Rushdie following the publication of The Satanic Verses. Although he has subsequently distanced himself from such sentiments, the man who once sang "I Love My Dog" and "Granny" did state in 1989: "The Qu'ran makes it clear if someone defames the Prophet, then he must die." source 

Later he tried to be apologetic and explain away his statements claiming they were taken out of context or misunderstood.

"Suddenly the media tried linking me to supporting the Iran 's Fatwa on Salman Rushdie. The fact is that I never did support the Fatwa. Such is the irony. You wouldn't ask a Christian to deny one of the Ten Commandments; equally, as a new Muslim, I couldn't deny that the Quran, just like Leviticus in the Bible, forbade blasphemy and if there is no repentance, made it a capital offence." source 

As for Rashad Khalifa and his rape, yes that it true. This is the story which appeared in the "Tucson Citizen," October 6, 1979, p. 2B:

The article clearly states:

". . .a 16-year-old-girl testified that he [RK]raped her while supposedly recruiting her for a United Nations research project."

"According to the girl, Khalifa recruited her to do research on the aura, a luminous radiation that supposedly surrounds the body, and met her Sept. 3 at an East Side office for that purpose."

"The girl said Khalifa asked her to remove her clothing so that it wouldn't interfere with her aura and after massaging several parts of her body, he proceeded to have sexual relations with her." 

"...Khalifa admitted to the police that he had manipulated the girl's breasts during his research. . . ."

"Justice of The Peace James West held a three-day hearing, and found sufficient evidence to order Khalifa to "stand trial on charges of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and sexual contact with a minor."

http://www.geocities.com/ocp274/rk.htm

At the time of this incident Rashad was 43, was married, and had two children.

http://www.submission.org/khalifa.html.

 

But you seem to condemn Rashad Khalifa and not Muhammad who raped a 9 year old girl when he was 54. Can you explain this duplicity?

If your alibi is that the sex between Aisha and Muhammad was consensual can you please tell us how a 9 year old who is incapable to buy, sell or make any important decision can consent to sex or marriage?

You have to accept that Islam is evil. You must admit that Muhammad was a psychopath liar much worse than Rashad Khalifa, much more cunning than him, much more manipulative and deceiving than all the charlatans and cult leaders. You have to admit that if Muhammad was alive today, he would be put in jail for what he did to the 9 year old Aisha.

Once again I invite you to wake up from this self induced slumber and leave the evil cult of Islam. As they say you can run but you canít hide. My site is growing, millions of people are coming to see the truth and Islam will become despised by all the people of the world. The intelligent Muslims across the world are joining our movement and we are truly bringing about the Renaissance in the Muslim world.  

I regret hearing your family was subjected to violence, but as I said, you should prepare yourself for worse. Unfortunately not everyone reads my site to understand that violence is the wrong way. People react to the news of Islamic terrorism. If you want to stay out of the harmís way you must either change, stop believing in Islam and dressing up like the terrorists or let everyone know about faithfreedom.org so they become educated and know you are not guilty, the problem is with the cult that you have embraced and the intense brainwashing that you have received.  

Muslims do not realize that FFI is their greatest ally. We help Muslims see the truth about Islam and leave that ugly cult and help others to understand the difficulty in which Muslims find themselves and why it is not easy for them to change their religion. 

Unlike Muhammad who dug ditches, we build bridges. Unlike him who brought hate and ignorance, we offer love and understanding.

It is okay if you do not wish to debate. This shows that deep down inside and at a subconscious level, you know the truth but at the same time you are not ready to face it consciously. May be you are afraid. Fear is a great deterring force. 

Yes my dear FEAR is the most powerful human emotion. You can easily see Islam is stupid but fear stops you from allowing yourself to doubt. Thanks to this fear you try to find justifications and rationalizations to continue believing. Fear works. Look at the Muslims comments in this site. All they can tell me is that I will be punished. There is no logical argument, no proof but only fear. Islam is founded on fear. And fear is the tool of the psychopath.  

How can a loving god burn people for eternity and tortures them in the most gruesome ways as described in the Quran? Can really this be true? Donít you think it is possible that Muhammad concocted these foolish fables to keep the gullible trapped with fear?

Good luck my friend. I hope other Muslims in your list will also ponder on what they are doing and they stop following a mad man, leave this evil cult and join the fold of humanity. 

 

 

 

 

 

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