Leaving Islam




 << Part I

Abdur Rafay vs. Ali Sina 

The Absurdity of Allah  

Part II


Abdur Rafay:  

Alright. So, here is my response, which must be publicly displayed in the debate if you actually dare face the truth. If you don't issue it, the conclusion is that you are not for a debate at all and the debates on your main site are fake and lame. Hence you have no substance:  

Ali Sina
Please spare us the bombast and get to the point.  


A. You wrote:

Suppose you prove the existence of God, this does not prove that
Muhammad was his prophet. However, since you seem to have such a big
interest on this subject, let us start with God.

Before starting to answer, I would like to clarify that talking about Muhammad (pbuh) being (or not being) God's prophet needs a logical supposition that there is a God. It is just like saying "This light is not coming from the sun" means that the source of the light is not the sun but something else. However, a debate on "Whether the light is coming from the sun" needs both the parties to believe that there is a sun. So, from the statement above, one understands that your website begins with the assumption that there is a God. If this is true, your website is supposed to have material against Muhammad only and not against God. If it is not true, the target of the website must be God only. Because only if there is a God, does the question whether something Muhammad (pbuh) did was right or wrong arise. If the aim your site is somewhere in between, where is it? So your answer to my mail must be based on its relevence to the objective and not merely on “my interest on this subject" as you wrote above. Agreed?  

My objective is not to disprove the existence of God or talk about Its nature. My goal is to prove that Muhammad was a lair, an impostor, a charlatan or a psychopath. For the sake of argument let us agree with whatever is your definition of God. With that assumption I can prove that Muhammad was not a prophet of the god you are talking about. So this is not about God but about Muhammad. The question is whether Muhammad was from God or from Satan. The discussion of God, therefore, is irrelevant.  I have not started this site to convince people to change their faith in God but to combat the threat of Islam. 


I like the way you protest against an authority. But it is natural... human... yet immature. Let us first look at the demand of justice. Justice is meant to sustain peace. Peace, for instance, is effective when NO ONE KILLS ANOTHER. But once it has been done, justice demands it to be taken back. Since a killed man cannot be put back to life, the only thing Law can do is punish the killer. Does it pay back to the one who was killed? No. He's gone and that's it. Does it pay back to the relatives of the killed one? No. They have lost him and that's it. Where is the so called justice? What the justice, therefore, means is mere compensation. Now the compensation that makes the killed individual and his relatives as happy as they were before the murder will be the actual justice which, as you know, is impossible on the face of the earth. However, this is not true in all situations. A theft for instance CAN BE recompensed by a) returning the stolen goods to the original owner, b) charging the thief for a monetary compensation of the trouble he created and c) punishment to warn him of any future crime.

The result is that some actions can be recompensed while others cannot be, due to the limitations of human powers. Punishment, as the above example shows, DOES NOT DO JUSTICE. It only WARNS the criminal and gives a LITTLE SATISFACTION to the ego (or whatever you may call it) of the victim. Hence, if there is a compensation that makes the affected as happy as they were before the crime was committed, there is NO NEED OF A PUNISHMENT for the criminal. This is to say that if a criminal is FORGIVEN and the affected are still happy with the compensation, the effect can be called pure justice.

As we noted above that this perfect compensation is possible in some cases and not in all, and we see that this is because of the limitations of human power, someone having unlimited powers can easily do it. Hence God has the authority to forgive anyone for anything and still do justice with all.

Though it serves as the answer, yet it must be noted that this answer has come out of my limited knowledge and logic, while God has much much greater powers and options that even I (or anyone else) cannot reach.

The fact that this answer has come from your limited logic is quite clear. You simply failed to address the question. 

If you maim me, I will take you to the court to demand justice. If the judge decides to show his mercy to you and let you go free for any reason, justice is not served. God as a judge has no right to be merciful to someone who has wronged another human being without that person’s consent, otherwise he has failed to do justice to the victim.

How Allah dares to be so unforgiving of those who simply do not worship him and be so generous and merciful to those who actually wrong other humans? This is double standard. He says that he will forgive all sins, including the sin of genocide but will not forgive the "sin" of associating a partner to him.  Is he nuts? Does this mean that the pains of countless people are not as  important to this narcissist psychopath Allah as his own pride? Does such an unjust god deserve praise? Of course not! he deserves our scorn. Only a fool would think Allah is God. Allah, if not the figment of the sick mind of Muhammad, is Satan. 

The truth is that it is not Allah who is so desperate to be worshiped. This was Muhammad hiding behind Allah that was speaking. It was this sick man who could not tolerate rejection and could not forgive anyone saying no to him that was so unforgiving of dissent. Allah was only a tool for this psychopath. This narcissist could not ask people to obey him and worship him. No one would have done it. So he used Allah to get at what he wanted. This is clear as the sun. 

Imagine someone kills your entire family and you go to the court to seek justice. The judge forgives the murderer because he feels merciful on that day. You cry out in pain that justice has not been served. The judge then orders your arrest and condemns you to life in prison with torture because you have questioned his authority. Does such a judge deserve to occupy his bench? Certainly not! He must be thrown out of the court and taken to mental hospital. That is what we should do to Allah. We must kick this sick deity out of his throne and send him to hell of oblivious where he belongs. But since Allah is only a fairytale, actually those who believe in him must be sent to mental hospital.        


C. You wrote:

The second question is about sins committed against God. The Quran
says that Allah will forgive all sins except the sin of associating
partners to him. (4:48) This is unjust. No human should be punished
for disbelief. Why? Because we never agreed to believe in God and
worship him when we were given life. We are here without our will.
God cannot impose on us obligations that we never agreed to. This is
like I force you to come to my house without your consent, then
demand payment from you for staying in my home and torture you if
you fail to pay. This is not justice. The Mullahs in Iran did just
that. They imprisoned and then executed their detractors and made
their families pay for the food they served them in jail and even
bullets used to kill them. This is not justice and not befitting of
a real God. Assuming this world is such a wonderful place to be,
which many disagree, no one must thank God for being here because we
have been forced to live in this prison called life. We did not ask
for it and should not be required to thank anyone for what we did
not want to begin with.

Thanking God should be an entirely personal matter. Those whose life
is full of blessing and joy may choose to thank God and those who
don’t want to thank him should not be punished for it because they
never asked to be born in the first place. Therefore punishing
people for disbelief is patent injustice.

Thanking must always be voluntary. If it becomes obligatory it is no
longer heartfelt. A despot may enjoy seeing his subjects bow in
front of him, but do they really love him? Love can never be forced
on people. To say love me or I will torture you is sick. Is Allah a

What a self-contradicting statement! On one hand, you admit that YOU WERE NOT BORN OUT OF YOUR OWN WILL, (hense powerless) and on the other hand you show your protest against God’s decision of punishing the non-believers (trying to demonstrate power) --- quite childish. I have something to ask:  

Since we had no say in coming to this world and have been forced here by God, it is utter injustice that he ask us to do things that we never agreed to do in the first place. This is not difficult to understand. Even with your little logic you should be able to understand it. If God gave us freedom he should respect that freedom and not punish us for disagreeing with him otherwise what freedom is that? 

It is like holding someone as hostage and telling him you are free to go but if you try to leave I will shoot you in the back. Saddam Hussein used to hold "free" referendums. The question asked was: "Do you want Saddam to stay?" The Iraqis were asked to vote "Yes" or "No" in an open ballots. If they voted No, they would have voted for their death. 

Looks like Allah is no better than Saddam Hussein. This is exactly the kind of freedom Allah is giving to people. He gives them freedom but if they exercise that freedom he will burn them in hell. This is psychopathology. Only a fool can believe in such a sick deity? Of course God is not like that. The Islamic Allah is the figment of the narcissistic mind of Muhammad. It is Muhammad talking in the Quran not Allah. 


Is it by one’s will to be admitted in a school? Then, in a higher class, when he is given a low score in a subject, does he say to the school administration, “And was it me to ask you to give me admission in your school?”  

This is a non sequitur argument. A child goes to school by his own (or his parents') decision. As he grows he realizes that for him to succeed in life he needs the education. To learn and score well he has to study. This no different from being employed in a company – to get paid you must work. You can’t expect pay without working. It is fair to fail a student who does not study and to fire an employee who does not work. Getting good marks or the paycheck is not a birthright. One must work for them to deserve them. 

The point is that study and work are voluntary. If a child does not wish to go to school no one is going to punish him. Many kids drop out of school and that is their choice. Also if you don’t want to work no one is going to punish you. You choose to be poor and some people prefer that to working. If you don't study or don't work you deprive yourself of a lot of privileges but you won't be punished for not working or not studying.

In contrast, we are brought to this world without our consent and we do not have the option to quit living if we don't like life. According to Muhammad the punishment for suicide is hell. Since our coming to this world has not been voluntary, we are here as hostages. We generally like life, but that is because we have no other experience. An animal born in captivity does not know what is freedom. This does not change the fact that he is a captive. This life is the only existence we know about. How can we know it is good or bad when there are no other points of comparison? Despite that we know that life is not easy. It comes with a lot of pains and sorrows.  

To add insult to injury, our hostage taker forces us to thank him and if we decide not to do it, he will burn us for eternity. Only people with very low intelligence can believe in such a crazy deity. Assuming that God exists, Allah is not It.  

All these asinine concepts show that Muhammad was a very ignorant and unenlightened person. A crackpot like him could not have been a messenger of God.   


a) if YES, it is quite childish (or isn’t it?)

b) if NO, then why “fight” God who is the most powerful and authoritative and a teacher or a school administration is nothing as compared to God

c) if you say that our parents know that it is good for us for our future, I would say God knows what is good for all the creation for their future because God has created causes and effects

d) if you say that when we grow up, we realize why our parents had us admitted in schools, I would say, when we die, we will know why we were created by God without our wills (or may be with our wills that we must have forgotten or been made to forget deliberately, again of our will). This can be explained with the example of a child who asks for chocolate and his mother doesn’t allow him some. He thinks he deserves it and his mother has NO RIGHT to stop him from eating chocolate. That’s why he cries and protests. To his limited logic, world seems to come to an end (compare it with your fear of the concept of punishment for eternity). But then he DOES grow up. He DOES in the world. And he DOES come across new dimensions of thought that he has NEVER been across earlier. Hence there are dimentions that we are unaware of and Allah says we will come across them soon. Only then shall we be able to realize the ultimate truth. Allah says in Attakaathur, “thumma latara wunna ha ainal yaqeen.” Translation: …then you will see it with the eye of belief…

So I conclude that what you proposed was childish. And quite opposite to your claim of the capacity of a man to be a prophet unto himself, your vision is quite limited.  

You are not addressing the question that I raised and all these silly examples of yours have nothing to do with it. All you say is that you have no answer and you want me to believe in these crazy arguments of yours because as you say the answer will be given after I am dead. I am sorry. That is not good enough for intelligent humans. If you have no satisfactory answers now, your gobbledygook is no different from thousands other waffles people believe in all corners of the world. Only a fool would believe in something illogical trusting that he would find the answer when he dies. When we die it is too late. What if we die to find out that this man who told us all these harebrained stories was an impostor and he himself is burning in hell? What would you do if you die and are sent to hell to find Muhammad being tortured like a roasted pig over bonfire?  

You may ask why should you be sent to hell. My answer is because you betrayed the gift of intelligence that God gave you. God gave all of us intelligence to use so we can unravel Its mysteries and you are not using that gift. This is in my opinion the greatest sins we humans can commit. Instead of using your intelligence you choose to follow a criminal liar and fill your heart with the hatred of mankind. What sin can be bigger than that?  

You wanted to debate with me to answer my charges against Muhammad and prove that Islam is a true religion. If you did not have answers, why did you insist so much in debating and making a fool of yourself?  


D. You wrote:
"You made good reasoning. However you overlooked the fact that the
god of Islam did not create the world out of love but out of need.
Allah in the Quran says: “I have only created Jinns and men, that
they may serve Me.” 51:56 Why Allah needs to be served if he is
needless? It is very clear that Allah is a needy god. In fact his
needs are so intense that if someone does not serve him he would
punish that person for eternity in the cruelest way imaginable. This
is the highest form of abuse. Humans are brought to this world
without their will. Most of them suffer pains and sorrows most of
their lives and on top of that they have to thank, worship and serve
the one who is responsible for their miseries?"

Although the teaacher-student example I gave above is enough to answer the childish statement in the last four lines above, there is one more point you made that god is needy.

I am afraid you fail to understand the difference between ‘need’ and ‘want’. Even a school child knows that needs are limited and wants are unlimited. Without the fulfilment of a need one CANNOT survive while without wants, there is NO HARM TO SURVIVAL. Now look at this:

1. A poor man is not powerful or proud or authoritative because he is characterized by needs and wants with the power to fulfill only a few fundamental needs and no power to fulfull wants. He IS needy.

2. A middle class man is somewhat powerful, relatively proud and a bit authoritative because he has the power to fulfill all the basic needs and may have gained some power to fulfill some of his wants and has developed more wants. He is not needy.

3. A rich man is more powerful, more proud, more authoritative because he has comparatively more power to fulfill all his needs and many of his wants. He is not needy.

God, however, has no needs and the power to fulfill all his wants such as creating man and djins for his service, worship or whatsoever. This is to say that even if God had not created us, He would be there and hence He is not needy. And you can see that the concept of neediness (in the worldly sense) was over in just point number 2 above. Your hypothesis of a needy god is just baseless and ridiculous.  

You are going in circles and not addressing the points that I have raised. It is clear that you have no answers. I asked you a very simple question. If God is not needy why is he so offended if humans do not worship him to the extent that he would punish them? The question is simple. If you are not capable of understanding this simple question why do you want to debate with me?  

If there was only reward for worshipping and no punishments for not worshipping, then you could have a point. Let us say a wealthy man offers rewards to anyone who writes essays praising him. Let us not get into his motivations. He could have a big ego, seeking self aggrandizement, etc. That is not the point here. The point is that you do something for him and he rewards you for that. That is fair deal. But if he demands everyone to praise him or his henchmen would beat to death those who don’t, then we are dealing with a very sick and dangerous person. When Allah says that he will never forgive those who disbelieve in him, it is clear that he is a sick deity. Could it be that Allah is actually Satan? Only Satan can have such a gigantic ego and be so ruthless. Certainly these qualities are not befitting for the maker of this universe.   


You wrote:

Justice dictates that punishment should be proportionate to the
offence. It is not justice to torture a person for life for stealing
an apple. Assuming that disbelief is a crime, which is absurd, why
should such a trivial offence be punished in such a sever way? Why
is Allah hurt so much if we do not worship him to the extent that he
would heartlessly burn us in such a sadistic way for eternity? This
punishment outweighs the crime infinitely. How can we call such a
sadistic deity just?

Quite ridiculous again. You say “Justice dictates that punishment should be proportionate to the offence.” If you answer my following questions PROPORTIONATELY, I shall admit you have some substance:  

You have consistently failed to answer the questions that I raised and all you can say is “ridiculous”. That does not give you an edge. It only shows you are not an intellectual and I made a mistake in my assessment of you.


My question: What is a proportionate punishment? How do you measure offence? What is the unit of these measurements? Is it something like ‘utils’ to measure utility? How do you make sure that one of the punishments given to a thief who has consumed the stolen goods worth 1 million dollars in America or in Saudi Arabia or in Libya is proportionate? Or one is light and the other is heavy? Is it just based on the agreement that a majority has reached? What if the whole majority is making injustice with the poor individual theif who my have some obligation under which he committed the theft?  

This has nothing to do with my point. Let us say the punishment for murder is one day in hell or one million years in hell. That is not what I am talking about. I am trying to show the irrationality of the belief that God can be merciful and just at the same time. Let us say the punishment of murder is ten units of torture. Why ten units? Because God has decided this is the just measure of punishment for this crime. Does he have the right to give discounts to some people because he feels merciful towards them? No, he has no such rights because I am the victim and I demand that justice be done fully. Only I can forgive my killer. If God is going to forgive my killer, he is doing injustice to me. Imagine a man kills your son and the judge decides to be merciful and sets him free or gives him very light sentence. Won’t you feel betrayed and wronged?  Justice means getting fair trial and fair retribution. How can God forgive my murderer and not forgive someone who does not believe in him? This is sick. 

How, finally, do you measure the BIGNESS of a crime? Especially the sins made against God? For instance, how big is the sin of disbelief? If you say that the severity of a crime is determined by its effect, can you tell me exactly what the effect of disbelief is? How many people does it affect? What are the consequences of spreading disbelief?

That is a question that you should answer not me. In my opinion disbelief does not harm anyone. It does not affect other humans and it does not affect God. The fact that it does not affect other humans is clear. If you say that it affects God then you are admitting that God is a petty and miserable god. A god that is affected by the belief and disbelief of humans is not worthy of praise. He is a sick, needy and worthless god.   


Also, do you know what eternity is? I bet not. Because a human being even doesn’t know what the beginning of time is, what to talk of eternity. A human mind is not capable of circumscribing infinity. It’s again like a child trying to play with an electrical appliance and an elder warning him of the risk.  

This has nothing to do with our discussion. 

 You wrote:

If there are no other gods but Allah why is he so desperate and
jealous? I can be jealous if my wife looks at men better looking
than me. This would be sick but understandable. However if we live
in an island where there are no men at all, and still I warn my wife
that if she looks at other men I will beat her and punish her I
should be sent to a mental hospital at once. How can Allah be
jealous of gods that do not exist? Is Allah insane? No, the answer
is that Muhammad was insane. It is a tragedy that a billion people
worship the figment of the imagination of a mentally deranged man.

Your example of your lady wife above is WRONG. I bet you would definitely scold and threat her if in such an island she tries to develop sexual relationship with trees, stones, your gatepost and your puppy. Won’t you say that it’s only you who is her husband and not the things she is trying to make out with? Now look at your text above and decide who is insane?  

You fail to grasp what I say. My question is why is Allah so jealous if humans worship gods that do not exist? If my cat meows to the refrigerator because he thinks it is the refrigerator that feeds him and not me I will not punish him. A deity that will not forgive those who pray to imaginary gods is an insane god. Let us say a person likes to worship a stone (Actually Muslims do worship a stone) why this should be so offensive to God? Why he should burn people who want to worship trees, stones or animals? Does he feel jealous? Does he feel threatened? 

Compare this sadistic attitude of Allah to what Krishna said. According to the Bhagavad-Gita, the god Krishna claims that it does not matter which god human beings worship; it is Krishna who answers their prayer.

I am not convinced that prayers are anything more than powerful placebos. However, rationally speaking, I can see the beauty of this Hindu belief. Krishna sounds like a real God of compassion and love while Allah sounds like a psychopath. Krishna is a self assured god who cares about his creation and responds to their needs, even if they do not know him. Allah on the other hand is a narcissist who is only concerned about his own gigantic ego. He is ruthless and unforgiving of those who ignore him. 


You wrote:

I am much kinder to my cat than God is to me. I feed my cat, take
care of him, take him to the vet if he gets sick, wash him and groom
him and I never think of punishing him if he does not pay attention
to me. As a matter of fact my cat thinks he owns the house and I am
his servant. He owes his entire existence to me. Without my care and
protection he will not survive. Despite that he never thanks me and
I still love him.

Yes you do. Because you have not created it for something you wanted it to do. So this example is also WRONG.   

What a load of nonsense! Who said by virtue that God created us he has the right to torture us? Did he consult us before creating us? Did we agree to the deal that we would worship him if he creates us? I have no recollection of agreeing to such a deal or signing any covenant with my alleged creator. He created without my will and gave me feelings. He has no right to hurt my feelings or mistreat me. 

Here is the right example:

You create a software. Instead of calculating profit for you, it is producing meaningless digits. You try to handle it, but it doesn’t seem to work. What do you do? Love it? Caresse it? Keep it in a directory? Look after it daily and smile at it???? Or simply delete it and start a new one?  

Software has no feelings and do not sense pain. You can destroy a car, a computer or anything that you create. Of course if you pound at them year after year with revenge, we would question your sanity. Nonetheless we humans have feelings and can sense pain. We can’t be compared to a software program or a piece of machinery.  

Let us say that God created us for a purpose and we fail that purpose. Apart from the fact that this shows God is a sloppy creator because our imperfections are directly the result of his lack of skills in creating perfect humans, why he just does not return us to nothingness if he sees we do not serve his purpose?  Why he tortures us in this excruciating way for eternity? This is stupid. It takes really stupid people to believe in this BS. If we use just a little bit of logic we can see Muhammad was a liar and everything he said make no sense. 

Assuming that something is wrong with us and we do not serve our creator's purpose, all he has to do is discard us. Why this much venom? Why this much vengeance? 

Furthermore, if he is an all knowing god, why he created those whom he knew would disobey him? If I know a software or a machine that I am making is not going to work the way I want it to work, I will not make it. If Allah knew the future why he made those whom he knew would disobey? Isn't this sick to create disbelievers and then torture them for eternity?  All he had to do was not create those whom he knew would become disbeliever.   


No, no… I didn’t give you a reason to say “is god imperfect in programming us?” That was just an example I gave you to refute your reasoning above and tell you what YOU would do if you had created something. This is because no matter how hard you may try, you cannot enable a computer program to make a decision on its own. God has the power to do it and hence he has introduced punishment for disobidience.  

And you have no problem believing in this nonsense? That is pathetic? That is why I say religion destroys the brain. 


Let us say God created me. But he does not take
care of me. I am left in this world to fend for myself. I have faced
calamities that could have been avoided if God was looking over my
shoulders. I would die of hunger if I do not earn my own bread. Tens
of thousands of children die every day of hunger. Where is this
loving god to come to their rescue? He is nowhere to be found when
we are in need. Our prayers and supplications are never heard. I am
by all means kinder to my cat than God is to me. And yet I can love
my cat unconditionally without wanting him to worship me or thank
me. God is incapable of loving his creation unconditionally. He put
us in this world without consulting us. Here we have to face life
with all its difficulties and pains on our own. He takes away our
loved ones and fills our hearts with great sorrow. He shatters our
hopes. He sends one calamity after another and kills innocent people
by thousands and despite all that he wants us to worship him and
serve him. Why should we thank such a god? What do we owe him? We
owe him nothing! He does not deserve our respect. Such a needy,
petulant and abusive god deserves our scorn. The god of Muhammad is
sick. He is a psychopath.

The whole statement above is based on immaturity that I have already refuted. You feel cursed because you ignored that death is NOT the end of life. This is a separate point that you may like to discuss later. If a person dying in hunger gets a hundreds of thousands of times better life than this one, what do you think God is showing? Ruthlessness or reward?

So, childish again. You should attempt to speak against what God does to us in this life only if you know what happens after the death.  

You have refuted nothing. All you have proven is that your brain is on religion and as such it is incapable of rational thought.  


The truth is that Allah is Muhammad’s own alter ego. He is
everything the narcissist Muhammad wanted to be. He does what he
pleases and he responds to no authority above him. He wants to be
worshipped, obeyed and feared. This is the wet dream of all
narcissists. One must be naïve to believe that the maker of this
universe is this insane god described by Muhammad. Why would one who
owns this magnificent universe care if a bunch of evolved apes in
this tiny plant worship him or not? Can we really hurt the feelings
of the maker of this vast universe by simply disbelieving in him?
There are many holes in the concept of god as defined by the
illiterate self-proclaimed prophet of Arabia.

The audience is here to decide if I have rightly answered comments like those above already. Yet I want to add two things here. 1) A narcissist would rather want to pass a luxurious life and would be able to gather many more greedy individuals around on the promise of a luxurious life after a luxurious life. Muhammad (pbuh), on the contrary, spend quite a simple, hard and selfless life.  

Muhammad became the absolute potentate of Arabia. In Mecca he destroyed the wealth of his wife and when he escaped to Medina he was poor. In just ten years he owned the wealth of thousands of people that he raided, murdered or banished. What other proof you need to agree that he benefited immensely by fooling people? The Christians can say Jesus did not benefit materially and was killed for what he stood for. Muslims can’s say that about Muhammad because he benefited materially from his claim. He became the absolute rule and filled his harem with a bevy of young women. It is precisely because of this that we should question his motives. 


On the other hand, an atheist can rightly be called a narcissist, as according to your definition above in the following words:

He does what he pleases and he responds to no authority above him. He wants to be
worshipped, obeyed and feared. This is the wet dream of all narcissists.  


This is not what atheists do. Atheists (with the exception of the communists who have their atheistic religion) are believe in the rule of law, a law that applies to all humans equally.  

2) Whether Muhammad (pbuh) is a self-proclaimed prophet is a matter of later concern. Don’t try to color up your speech using hasty hops. We shall come to it in the next step, inshaAllah. (Don’t repeat that the main aim of the site is to target Muhammad (pbuh) only. I have already addressed on this baseless claim under point A above (top))

You failed to say anything worth reading. I am sorry Abdur Rafay. I thought you are a scholar. Obviously I judged you too soon. Your responses are neither challenging nor intelligent. Please post your responses in the forum and continue debating with the friends there. I am not going to waste the precious time of my readers by making them read silly arguments. If you have anything important and ground breaking to say, you can say it in the forum and people will flock to read your pearls of wisdom. 


If you say that the actual God is an indefinable and incomprehensible reality, how can you say what characteristics He does not have? It is quite logical for such a God to have bestowed some of His qualities to a trivial degree to human beings that now have become “human qualities” as you call them. Be logical. A human quality is not supposed to be own by God, rather human beings can be supposed to be granted some of His qualities. Simple.  

Obviously this subject is a bit above your head. So you did not understand when I said God is a principle and not a thing or a being and as such It cannot have attributes. Why should I waste my time debating with someone of your caliber?  


Let us suppose your definition of god above suggests that god is FREE from all these attributes. He must therefore be free of life as well. If it is true, the most illogical statement that “a non living being created living beings” is what you just said.  

My friend, please ask someone to explain to you what I wrote.


If god is a principle, fine. No problem. This principle has caused life. And thus the principle is alive too.

Otherwise, this goes against known logic as I said above. This is the point where the actual debate starts.  

Dear Abdur Raray, your logic is not the standard. You don’t know what is logic. You simply did not understand a word of what I wrote. Principles do not have life. Principles are laws. This concept seems to be beyond you. Isn't it?   


We are unable, rather incapable to understand what God is like. The question here, is whatever God is, has he initiated communication with us? My answer here is yes. The proof to this communication is Quraan. I hope here is where the second phase of this debate starts. As I have already mentioned that my intention is to reach the ultimate truth and not to defend Islam (it doesn’t need to be defended), I put forward two things in the conclusion:  

1. The HE and IT debate is childish. When you can call your cat “he” (who is an animal) you chose “it” for God (even if He is a Principle according to you). Remember, on the other hand you call God a supreme reality. I do agree that Allah is free of gender and the use of “he” denotes that He is alive and not the gender. “Subhaan Allah i amma yasifoon.” (Allah is pure of the attributes they suggest for Him)

2. To me, God has communicated to human beings and the last book of signs He has sent to us is Quraan.  


Please go in the forum and debate there. I have more important things to do than debating with someone with your limited understanding. Not only you have no understanding of philosophy and are not familiar with logical language, you have difficulty understanding simple concepts. Now I see why Doubtless had ignored your email and had not tagged it for me to see. Obviously he saw your shallowness when I failed to see it. 






Articles Op-ed Authors Debates Leaving Islam FAQ
Comments Library Gallery Video Clips Books Sina's Challenge

  ©  copyright You may translate and publish the articles in this site only if you provide a link to the original page.