Leaving Islam




Miracles of Iron

The sixth miracle according to Mr. Ahmed is the verse:

We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will).

Mr. Ahmed says that according to the Modern science, iron is the only element that does not belong to the Earth but is sent from heaven to Earth and hence the above verse is a miracle.

The truth is that four billion years ago, when our planet was still a scorching ball of fire, a giant asteroid mostly made of metal struck the Earth scattering a lot of it to the sky. The asteroid however penetrated the core of the Earth. That is why the deeper we go the more metal we find. However iron was not the only metal found that came with that asteroid. It contained many other metals including gold.

The verse actually should not be taken literally. In this verse Muhammad is saying that we sent you everything that you need including iron with which has mighty power i.e. is strong and can benefit you as well. He did not mean that the iron, among all the elements, is the only element that has descended from the heaven. In Muhammad's language eveything is "sent' to man by God and that is the meaning of this word andalna here. He did not mean that God sent the iron from they sky but since the giver of the iron is God so the verb nadala is used. Somewhere else Muhammad says that He sent down cattle (39.6) Do we have to take this literally?

Mr. Ahmed in the defense of his theory states that the energy required to create one atom of iron equals several times the energy stored in the sun. This is obviously absurd. This gentleman makes up in bravado what he lacks in knowledge.

The last “miracle” of the Quran mentioned by Mr. Ahmed is when Muhammad says: "Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion" (Qur'an 21:33; 36:40). Then he wonders: “How did the author of the Qur'an know of this?”

Anyone looking at the sky can see that the Sun and the Moon follow a fixed orbit. This was known to our ancestors since the dawn of time. However we see that the Sun and the Moon revolve around the Earth and this is the orbit that the Quran is talking about. What Quran says about the orbits of the Sun and the Moon is the observable and perceived orbits of these celestial objects caused by the rotation of the Earth. The Quran is talking about neither the actual orbit of the sun around the central star of the Milky Way that takes 226 million years nor the orbit of the moon around the Earth that takes 29 days. Muhammad is talking about the “perceived” orbit of these objects that takes 24 hours. Any ignorant man, even the animals, could observe what Muhammad observed. Any ignorant man could have said what Muhammad said. Muhammad was not aware of the actual orbit of the Moon that became known to humanity through the findings of Copernicus and Galileo let alone the orbit of the Sun that was discovered in the 20th century.

This is clear from the verse 2:189.

"They ask you about the new moon. Say: They indicate the periods for (various activities of) mankind, and for the pilgrimage."

Muhammad is asked about the moon and why it changes shape. This was a perfect opportunity for him to say it is because of the rotation of the moon around the Earth and because the light of the moon is a reflection of the light of the sun. But he did not know the right answer. He instead said that the Moon is a giant clock/calendar in the sky created for the believers to know what time of the month it is and when they should perform their pilgrimage.

Muhammad thought that the Sun and the Moon have similar orbits chasing each other in the sky while it is not allowed for the Sun to catch the Moon.

It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

We are dealing with a man with a very primitive mind. In the verse 10:5 Muhammad says that the Moon has its own light and then reiterates that it is a calendar in the sky, created for us humans to measure the time.

PICKTHAL: He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge.

Of course both these statements are false. The Moon has no light of its own nor it has anything to do with us humans. The moon has been there probably as long as the Earth has been around and that is 4.5 billion years while we humans appeared on this planet only 100,000 ago and will most likely disappear much sooner than the moon. It is ridiculous to assume that the celestial objects have been created for us humans. We are merely one species among the millions inhabiting this planet. Nothing is created for us. These ideas are childish and do not belong to this day and age of enlightenment.

There is no doubt that Muhammad used to think that Moon gives light.

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;

And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?

Of course the Moon is not a lamp and it does not give light. These verses are enough to prove that the Quran is not revealed by any knowledgeable god. Muhammad simply stated what was obvious to his eyes. His knowledge of the astronomy was no more than any ignorant man of his time.

This is also clear when he says that the Sun “rises” and “sets” in murky waters. 18.86

Mr. Ahmed, in his debate with Denis Giron makes an astounding statement. He says that the critics could say that the orbits of the Sun and the Moon mentioned in the Quran may indicate the rotation of these objects around the Earth. But he says this is not so because Muhammad did not say such thing.

This reminds me of a joke we used to tell each other when in primary school. “We Iranians used to have wireless technology in our ancient civilization. Why? Because the archeologists have not been able to find any wire in the old ruins.”

Of course we were kids and this was a joke. However it seems that the brain of some grownup Muslims is even less evolved than that of the children. So according to our esteemed opponent, if Muhammad did not say that the orbit he was talking about is the rotation of the Sun around the Earth, he must have meant the rotation of the Sun around the black hole in the Milky Way. It does not even occur to him to ask, if that was the case why he did not say that. Why he did not clarify that the moon rotates around the Earth and the Earth rotates around the center of the Milky Way? The Milky Way is very visible in the deserts of Arabia . Muhammad stated what he saw. That is virtually the same thing my cat can see. That is the Sun and the Moon have orbits and they rotate the Earth.

These are the “miracles of science” that Mr. Ahmad wanted me to respond to. Actually Denis already responded to all these claims. However Denis is very cautious and does not call the Quran to be a hodgepodge of gibberish. He tries to be politically correct. He is even afraid to call a spade a spade and say all these verses are rubbish. He goes only as far to say that the “knowledge” contained in these verses were already known to humans prior to Muhammad. What knowledge? Most of the Quran is garbage.

The soft attitude of Denis has emboldened Ahmed who claims the possibility of Muhammad in being right in each and every one of these verses is 1/500,000. Then he multiplies all these fractions and comes with an astronomically minute number and states that the chance of Muhammad just guessing the correct answer each and every time is less than one over a number with 26 zeros in front of it.

Dear. Mr. Ahmed. Please do not be fooled by Denis’s niceness. He is just trying to be politically correct. The truth is that your Quran is the stupidest book ever written. There are not one or two but hundreds of errors in that book. It is a shame that a man like you is so blinded with faith that cannot see the obvious errors of this book. But stick around. Don’t go anyway. We will go over this book together and will find out more inanities of it together.

If you have finished with your “miracles”, this time allow me to dig into that cesspool called Quran and pull out verses that would embarrass you or hopefully open your eyes.

You also seem to not pay much attention to what others say. You have learned only one subject and you think this is such a big hit that you want to play it in every occasion. Sadly you are not intelligent enough to see when you are defeated. Dr. Morey, obviously saw you are not a scholar and did not think you are worth his time. You go around claiming you have defeated him? How you have defeated him when he did not even dignify you with a response? The reason he gave is that your way of debating is insulting your opponent. That is ad hominem and highly unscholarly. I do not blame him for not giving you much credence. You claim that you defeated Denis Giron. I listened to your debate with him and to me it is clear that you are the one who is defeated.

Judging by your performance and especially by your boasting and bravado, it is clear that you are not a scholar but a little man in search of fame. You try to debate with some recognized names on the net and even though they do not respond to you add them to your portfolio to make yourself look bigger that who you really are. I knew your games. At first, like Dr. Morey, I thought you are not really worth my time. But seeing your boastfulness and bluster, I thought you would benefit if I put you in your place and amuse the Internet folk at your expense. Perhaps this will teach you some humility and help you to become a better debater.

I will continue debating with you, provided you behave like a scholar. Fortunately I heard your voice and you sound like a grown up man. Otherwise judging by your bluster and arrogance I would have suspected you are just a teenager. If you want to debate with me, you are required to behave like a scholar. I hope that is clear.

Now back to our discussion. You did not comment on my statement that even if the Quran is proven to be a miracle (which of course as we are seeing it is not) Muhammad cannot be hailed as a prophet. The ethics and morality of Muhammad are crucial to determine his truthfulness. A liar cannot be a prophet. Is that clear? Do you agree with this? Do you agree that if the Quran is proven to be a miracle as you say and Muhammad is proven to be a criminal, there is a good chance that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad by Satan? I need your statement on this subject before we can continue with our study of the Quran.

Furthermore, please respond to other members. They are all better scholars than you. So debating with them will certainly add to your profile and make you look important.

Kind regards

P.S. We generally treat our guests and oponents with respect. However your chest beating and swelling claiming to have won when we did not even start to debate was a factor for me to deal with you in this way and bruise your nose so hopefully you become more respectful in your future correspondance.

If anything you failed to answer my claim that even if the Quran is proven to be a miracle still Muhammad cannot be called a prophet. This would only prove that he was inspired by Satan. Your silence in this regard tells me you have no response for that and hence you are the defeated one in this first round.


“We see that motion is able to dissolve and inflame the air; indeed, moving bodies are often actually found to melt. Now the sun's motion alone is sufficient to account for the origin of terrestrial warmth and heat. For a motion that is to have this effect must be rapid and near, and that of the stars is rapid but distant, while that of the moon is near but slow, whereas the sun's motion combines both conditions in a sufficient degree. That most heat should be generated where the sun is present is easy to understand if we consider the analogy of terrestrial phenomena, for here, too, it is the air that is nearest to a thing in rapid motion which is heated most. This is just what we should expect, as it is the nearest air that is most dissolved by the motion of a solid body.

      This then is one reason why heat reaches our world. Another is that the fire surrounding the air is often scattered by the motion of the heavens and driven downwards in spite of itself.


 Shooting-stars further suffix to prove that the celestial sphere is not hot or fiery: for they do not occur in that upper region but below: yet the more and the faster a thing moves, the more apt it is to take fire. Besides, the sun, which most of all the stars is considered to be hot, is really white and not fiery in colour.  


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