Phoenix,

Just saw the so called arguments between the “adults”…LOL….

Poor Phoenix has nothing logical to say here in this topic and is caught pants down with regard to the verse /2 Thessalonians 3:15….Phoenix did not bother to know even the context of the verse and misunderstood what the verse says….

Since he is caught red-handed, he is running away to another topic (boring topic) with the excuse of engaging with an “adult”.

“Adults” in Phoenix’s world run away from a topic when they are caught red-handed making wrong statements and have nothing logical to say….

Real adults Phoenix accept their errors when their errors are pointed and change for better. They do NOT behave like you making ad-hominem attacks calling others as as not adults and run away to another topic.

How about you grow-up and accept your errors here and NOT behave like a adolescent.

@why?

I’ve decided to engage with an adult called Certainly Doubtful. You can join in or just watch and see how the grown ups do it.

@Sakat
Why do you want to involve Dr. Ali Sina here? He is a scholar in Islamic studies, esp. Koran and Sunnah. He accepted Jesus as his Saviour and God mainly through hundreds of irrefutable evidences found in NDEs. He has humbly explained this to ‘Why’ a few times. Finally he ignored ‘Why’ as ‘arogant and disrespectful person’.
Phoenix has rightly termed the posts of ‘Why’ as childish antics. I have seen a book “50,000 errors in the Bible” Not a single Bible scholar came forward to refute those claims. For me, the problem lies not in his writings but in his flawed worldview. If Jesus is a bastard, cracy, and delusional, how his teachings has created peaceful and thriving societies. Whether it is Britain’s “Magna Carta” or American declaration of Independence, or French declaration of the Rights of Man, or Mandela’s “Truth and Reconciliation Commission, all stem from Jesus’ three years teachings. Jesus is the chief corner stone of human society as he predicted 2000 yrs ago in Mathew 21:42
Let us take “Why’s recent post that Jesus considered ‘unbelievers’ as the enemies. Phoenix has explained beautifully using the ‘Good Samaritan’ parable. Sakat, could you able to see the ignorance of ‘Why’? Jesus exhots the whole humanity to call God as ‘Abba Father’ so that fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man can be built in this world. Who knows calling ‘Father’ may be the first word in the globalisation process, forming UNO, 28 nations coming under EU, then ASEAN, SAARC, GCC etc . Christianity is built on two pillars. Loving God, (Vertical relationship) and Loving Man (horizontal relationship) (Mark 12:29-31). Surprisingly the cross symbolises this concept. Jesus, as God, clearly reject our vertical relationship with God if our horizontal relationship is bad.(Mathew 5::23-24) “keep your offerings at the altar, go back, shake hands with your enemy and com back” Enemies mean those who hurt us in our personal lives.
The worrying thing is not that ‘Why’ is maligning Jesus. Christians have seen tirades from hundreds of atheists like Richard Dawkins, Dan Brown etc. The thing is ‘Why’ is doing a disservice to Dr. Ali Sina and to this ‘Faithfreedom’ site. He is so foolish not to understand the intention and purpose of this site and that of Ali.
Please be cool and relax with Shreya Kant’s beautiful songs “Mera yesu live” I don’t know Hindi yet enjoys her songs. She,(a Punjabi) along with her parents, attracts thousands of high cast young people with her dance,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YABNob66YGA

I THINK I HAVE PROVEN WITH ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT THE SO CALLED TEACHINGS OF LOVE OF JEEBUS IS NOTHING MORE THAN SELF-CONCEITED EGOISTIC STATE OF MIND OF JEEBUS.

CHRISTIANS GO AROUND BELITTLING OTHERS AND THEIR RELIGIONS CALLING SO CALLED JEEBUS LOVE AS SOMETHING GREAT, UNHEARD OF.

I HAVE EXPOSED ENOUGH SHOWING JEEBUS SO CALLED LOVE DOES NOT INVOLVE ANYTHING GREAT. ALL HE IS ASKING IS GREET PAGANS AS YOU GREET BELIEVERS OR TREAT THEM JUSTLY. WHAT IS SO GREAT IN THIS TEACHING REALLY?

WE HAVE ALSO SEEN THAT JEEBUS SO CALLED TEACHINGS OF LOVE DOES NOT NEGATE CAPITAL PUNISHMENTS OF MOSES LIKE STONING ETC, AND NOWHERE JEEBUS HAS CONDEMNED SLAVERY.

BESIDES WHAT KIND OF LOVE WILL CONSIDER INDISCRIMINATELY CONSIDER ALL UNBELIEVERS A EVIL, UNRIGHTEOUS, DARKNESS, DOGS AND AS LESSER BEINGS? THIS PROVES SO CALLED GREAT TEACHINGS OF LOVE OF JEEBUS IS NOTHING MORE THAN MERE DELUSIONAL SELF-CONCEITED SELF-GRANDEUR.

Phoenix Says:
==========================================================
In Luke 10:29-37 (Parable of the Samaritan) a lawyer ask jesus who qualifies as a neighbor? Jesus uses an enemy of the jew (samaritan) and protrays him in a positive light.

This exposition is enough to demonstrate the irrationality that is why? Clearly neighbor does not mean brother or tribe member.
==========================================================

Strawman argument….

First of all notice how this crypto Christian deceptively avoids the contrast between “neighbor” and “enemy” which jeebus himself quotes in the same verses.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

Jeebus himself again contrasts believers with pagans and asks his followers, if you believers do what pagans do, what is great in you? THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE DECEPTIVE AND DISHONEST WHEN IT COMES TO JEEBUS AND BIBLE….

The verse (quote from jeebus himself) itself clearly and explicitly calls “believers” are neighbors and “pagans” are enemies. One need NOT go to another verse to show anything.

Again notice, how this supposedly “not Christian” guy Phoenix clearly avoids question on Slavery and numerous other quotes from bible which explicitly shows that jeebus himself called “believers” as brothers and “non-believers” as essentially enemies.

In Jeebus’ teaching, nowhere in the New Testament, does brother ever refer to an enemy. Moreover, 2 Thessalonians 3:15 (link is external) tells us that if we find it necessary to disfellowship a brother for moral reasons, we are not to regard him as an enemy. An enemy is not a brother.

2 Thessalonians 3:15

15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

CLEARLY AGAIN ENEMY REFERS TO UNBELIEVER ONLY.

NOW REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER Luke 10:29-37 MEANS, ENEMY ALWAYS REFERS TO UNBELIEVERS ONLY IN THE EYES OF JEEBUS OR FIRST CHRISTIANS IN AMPLY CLEAR.

NOW Luke 10:29-37….

Does jeebus call enemies as neighbor here? There is no such evidence here at all. Nowhere in the parable jeebus refers to Samaritans as enemies.

Who are Samaritans? Are they considered enemies in some way by jeebus or jews? Is there any evidence for this? NONE at all…

SO WHY DOES THIS PHOENIX DECEPTVELY REFERS TO SAMARITANS AS ENEMIES? I WILL EXPOSE THIS LIES HERE…

BEFORE THAT, WHO IS A NEIGHBOR? WE WILL SEE HERE…
Leviticus 19:18
18 “ ‘Do not seek revengep or bear a grudgeq against anyone among your people,r but love your neighbors as yourself.t I am the Lord.
CLEARLY AS PER THE OT VERSE, A NEIGHBOR IS SOMEONE WHO IS FROM YOUR PEOPLE i.e. BELIEVERS MOSTLY. HERE IT SAYS LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AND DO NOT BEAR GURDGE WITH THEM.

Jeebus was merely quoting this OT verse when he said

You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.”

So it is clear that “neighbor” refers to people from same community of believers OR people who live together.

Now in Luke 10:29-37, why did Jeebus use the a “Samaritan”, a “Levite” and a priest of Jews as examples in this parable?

Notice jeebus does NOT use a Roman as an example here. Why?

This is because a Roman is never considered a “neighbor” for a Jew…. A neighbor for the population in the region would be people living in that region.

Who are the neighbors in that region? Obviously Jews and different sects (Samaritans) that live in that region. NOTE SAMARITANS ARE NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM JEWS. THEY BELIEVE IN THE 5 BOOKS OF TORAH, WHILE NOT BELIEVE IN OTHER BOOKS OF TANAKH AND PRAY TO SAME GOD AS JEWS AS PER TORAH’S 5 BOOKS. SAMARITANS ARE NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM JEWS IN BELIEF AS WELL.

Just as it is possible to hate or bear grudge to a fellow believer, it is possible to bear hate or grudge against different sects of Jews or similar sects like Judaism (samaritans). They are neighbors none the less.

If ONLY HATE makes two people enemy, then even two believers or brothers become enemies. That would be NONSENSE argument. THIS IS THE SAME NONSENSE ARGUMENT PHOENIX IS MAKING REGARDING SAMARITANS.

@Sakat

I’m not an apologetic for Christianity nor have I stated my religious affiliation on this site. I do however defend Christianity where I can against unjust accusations. I have defended Hinduism and Buddhism against unjust attacks in the past.
For instance, here why? attempts to equate Jesus and Muhammad by claiming love your neighbors refers to believers only;

Says why?://Now let’s see the verses on “love your enemy” and its meaning in context.Matthew 5:43-48//

In Luke 10:29-37 (Parable of the Samaritan) a lawyer ask jesus who qualifies as a neighbor? Jesus uses an enemy of the jew (samaritan) and protrays him in a positive light. Clearly this could not be any more dissimilar from Muhammad.

“29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
===
This exposition is enough to demonstrate the irrationality that is why? Clearly neighbor does not mean brother or tribe member.
Either Jesus was a murderer, rapist, pedophile, robber, slave-master and therefore identical to Muhammad or not. There’s no middle ground. Why? has been desperately trying to link the two leaders with no avail.

Sakat,

Its simple…they do not have anything logical to say…so pick some or any silly excuse….I will continue to address this character as jeebus only, a crazy delusional fellow.

passive observer
With due respect to you and Dr Sina .
What offending element you found in calling Jesus as Jeebus by Mr Why .?

Dear Dr Sina
i am following you since last many years ,when it comes to debate with any Muslim scholar you did not waste time to respond him/her, upon receiving his/her reply,but it is unfortunate that ,you are stumbling now engaging “why”. May ask you why ?. My Hat is up to you Mr Why!!!!!! ,keep it up .

John 7:24 (Jeebus’ statement on legal/moral jewish issues like adultery)

Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

John 8:7

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

“Let him first cast a stone at her”

The commentator Ellicott explains beautifully that jeebus was asking the witness(es) to step forward first and cast a stone at her…….

Ellicott’ Commentary: “Let him first” means “let him first of you”; not “let him cast the first stone.” This was the duty of the witnesses.

Clearly, jeebus wanted the witness(es) to step forward first and STONE the set-up adulteress (false actress as adulteress) before others do it…This is requirement of Mosaic law…..

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9981/jewish/Chapter-17.htm

Devarim – Deuteronomy – Chapter 17:6-7

6 By the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall the one liable to death be put to death; he shall not be put to death by the mouth of one witness.

7 The hand of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people, and you shall abolish evil from among you.

If any witness steps forward they will be examined and if found false will be themselves STONED as per Deuteronomy 19:16-21….

This is what jeebus meant when he said (sinless one of you) anamartētos=sinless, guiltless or without guilt in the verse. He challenged the so called witnesses if they are NOT guilty of making false claims to step forward first. Note that jeebus is NOT asking for witnesses to be absolutely sinless. No Mosaic law asks for such a condition from witnesses. That would be nonsense and no crime can be punished in such a case and would nullify Moses’ laws. If jeebus voided Moses’ law by such requirement, then jeebus would be caught for blasphemy. The cunning Jews did Not understand in this manner, but Jeebus’ reference to them as false witnesses and ran away in fear.

So it is clear here that Jeebus did Not do away with Moses’ laws of stoning, rather asked for correct judgment, which proves that although jeebus taught so called “love”, he did Not do away with punishments, including stoning and death sentences of Moses. Neither did these Jeebus’ teachings do away with slavery as Jeebus never explicitly condemned slavery as evil.

SLAVERY/SEXUAL SLAVERY AUTHORIZED IN NEW TESTAMENT:

1. Jeebus was a believing jew….….he believed OT laws are god given…he is unlikely to condemn slavery, sexual slavery etc. mentioned and commanded and approved by OT god…
2. Jeebus was quite aware of slavery existing in his time and even used slavery as examples in his parables showing that he was aware of slavery…..
3. New testament itself is full of instances where christian masters with slaves were never asked to redeem the slaves they own….showing that even NT followers of jeebus never condemned slavery as evil….Rather only asked its Christian masters to treat their slaves properly….whatever that means when one is in slavery…CLEARLY ONE CAN BE A CHRISTIAN AND YET OWN A CHRISTIAN SLAVE…

Colossians 4:1: “Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.”

Ephesians 6:5: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

4. If slavery was against Christianity, why didn’t Paul (as above) or any other follower of jeebus say/command explicitly that slavery was against Christianity and all Christian masters should free all slaves? Rather only asked its Christian masters to treat their slaves properly….whatever that means when one is in slavery…

A. Philemon was a Christian follower of paul. Why Paul did NOT tell Philemon that slavery was against Christianity instead of paying the debt to Philemon, if Christianity or jeebus was against slavery? The fact Paul did not tell this shows that neither Paul nor Christianity is against slavery.
B. Paul paid the debt of onesimus because he was a Christian convert and Paul wanted to help him…
C. Nowhere Paul explicitly condemns slavery as evil…How will he, when jeebus himself did NOT explicitly condemn slavery?

5. Paul sends back Onesimus back to his Christian master Philemon and asks him to receive as his brother in christ, but never asked him explicitly to manumit him from slavery. THIS SHOWS THAT PAUL DID NOT WANT SLAVERY ABOLISHED. REFER TO POINT 3 IN CAPITALS BEFORE YOU SPOUT MORE STRAWMAN NONSENSE…
6. Slavery was practiced by Christians for last 1600 years or more and was ONLY recently abolished because of secular laws and NOT DUE TO CHRISTIANITY…
WESTERN RACISM is ROOTED IN CHRISTIAN SLAVERY…

Ali Sina
I have shown some of the posts of ‘Why’ to my Indian friend. He asserts ‘Why’ must be one of the leaders of RSS terror group that massacred more than 65 Christians, burned 200 churches, raped a Catholic nun and driven 100,000 to the mountains for safety, in Odisha state in 2008. These most backward tribal people are untouchable by other Hindus. However Christian missionaries looked after them.
It is true that Jesus did not speak about slavery, democracy or rule of law, but His central teachings on loving others, including the enemies have continually uplifted humanity throughout the centuries. In order to avoid killings during the transfer of power, Christians unearthed democracy (concept invented by Greeks) and implemented it. As far as the slavery is concerned, you will find in the NT book of Philemon the slave Onesimus ran away from his master Philemon, (after stealing some money). Anyhow he met Paul in prison. Paul accepts the slave as his son and send him back to his master Philemon, requesting Philemon to accept the slave as his brother. Philemon (a disciple of Paul) accepts the slave as his brother, on his return. Isn’t amazing? This letter to Philemon is considered as one of the best letters during Roman Empire. Ali, can you treat your servant, who has stolen your valuables, on his return, as your brother and serve him with coffee? Jesus transforms people. William Wilberforce abolished slavery in the British Empire. Abraham Lincoln said “ All men are born equal” and died for it. Jesus transformed the serial killer David Berkowitz, Sadhu Sundar Singh, a Sikh , Ram Babu, a Brahmin, Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of a Hamas leader, Kuwaiti prince Abdullah al-Sabah and above all the slave trader (from Africa to America) John Newton(1725-1807). After conversion he sold his ship and became a missionary and a leader to abolish slavery. The most famous and sweet hymn “Amazing Grace” was written by him. He is pouring out his heart about the amazing grace of Jesus. I will give a few lines.
“Amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me;
I once was lost, but now I am found; was blind, but now I see”

‘Why’ a harassed soul, doesn’t have the capacity to understand a single sentence of Jesus. Although he reads the Bible but his abhorrence towards Jesus prevent him from understanding the truth. I don’t think he will be able to say before his death, “I was blind, but now I see”. As I understand Jesus, not every Dick and Harry will go to heaven. He said:-
“Whoever has ears let them hear” (Mt.11:15)
“Many are called but few are chosen” (Mt.22:14)
“Not everyone seeing sees; not everyone hearing hears” (Mt. 13:13)
“ Broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it: Narrow is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it: (Mt.7:13-14)

My understanding of Ali Sina’s main arguments for NDE being evidence for existence of soul

1. So called corroborated veridical NDEs:

2. Shared near death experiences

Both are NOT proofs which cannot have alternate explanations or purely material explanations.

Point 1:

Lets take the example of a so called corroborated veridical NDE:

en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case
=======================================Quote=======================
Claimed NDE

Reynolds says she was able to identify surgical instruments and hear conversations between operating room staff.

Anesthesiologist Gerald Woerlee analyzed the case, and concluded that Reynolds ability to perceive events during her surgery was the result of “anesthesia awareness”.[5]

According to the psychologist Chris French:

Woerlee an anesthesiologist with many years of clinical experience, has considered this case in detail and remains unconvinced of the need for a paranormal explanation… [He] draws attention to the fact that Reynolds could only give a report of her experience some time after she recovered from the anesthetic as she was still intubated when she regained consciousness. This would provide some opportunity for her to associate and elaborate upon the sensations she had experienced during the operation with her existing knowledge and expectations. The fact that she described the small pneumatic saw used in the operation also does not impress Woerlee. As he points out, the saw sounds like and, to some extent, looks like the pneumatic drills used by dentists.
============================end quote================================

a.) This is clearly a case of consciousness coming back AND NOT EVIDENCE OF SOUL.

(b.) Every NDE experience talks about “soul” coming back after the white light or some angel or god etc. tell them to go back and they gain consciousness.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE AS IT GIVES AN IDEA OF THE TIMING OF NDE EXPERIENCES. THIS POINT CLEARLY SHOWS THAT NDEs TAKE PLACE DURING RECOVERY PERIODS ONLY AND NOT IN ISOELECTRIC EEG PERIOD. READ THE ARTICLE BELOW FOR MORE UNDERSTANDING.

(c) OBEs, seeing white light, 360 degree views etc. are also observed in SYNCOPE.

Quote from the following article explains better.

Occam’s Chainsaw: Neuroscientific Nails in the Coffin of Dualist Notions of the Near-death Experience (NDE)
Dr. Jason J Braithwaite & Hayley Dewe MSc

==================================QUOTE===================================
Not only do you not need to be near-death to have a NDE, but human brains can flat-line and become isoelectric periodical- ly, even when they are very much alive. This has been well known to neuroscience for decades. There are a number of examples of this, one noticeable one is the case of syncope. Syncope refers to a condition where patients typically experi- ence a paroxysmal loss of consciousness and postural tone. There are a number of different forms of syncope and some instances can be very similar to other seizure-based conditions making accurate delineation and diagnosis problematic (McKeon, Vaughan, & Delanty, 2006).

For example, around 60% of syncope cases are known to be associated with striking aura and hallucinations (typically visual or auditory, of both simple and complex imagery: Lempert, 1994b; Stephenson, 2005). Indeed, syncope has been directly associated with both out-of-body experi- ences (Brandt, Kramme, Storm, & Pohlmann-Eden, 2009; Stephenson, 2005) and the NDE itself (Blackmore, 1993; Stephenson, 2005; see Lempert, Bauer & Schmidt, 1994a).

The study by Lempert and colleagues is interesting for a num- ber of reasons. Firstly, although syncope was artificially induced on average for only approximately 22 seconds, most participants reported striking hallucinations and components of NDE-type hallucinations. Secondly, the vast majority of these experiences were described as being highly emotional and pleasant, with participants reporting that they were unwilling to return to the physical world. One participant was quoted as saying “I thought that if I had to die in this very moment I would willingly agree”. In addition, two participants reported the high similarity of syncopal experiences to previous post- traumatic NDEs that they had also experienced. Furthermore, the majority of components that make up the NDE were shown to occur in experimentally induced cases of syncope, to a sim- ilar frequency of that reported for spontaneous NDEs (Lempert, 1994a; see Table 1). Therefore, experiences in syncope were similar in thematic content, frequency and intensity to that reported by NDEers. This evidence is difficult to ignore and seems to go against the common claim from paranormalists that the experiences reported in the NDE are completely qual- itatively distinct (i.e., much more intense and convincing) from similar experiences reported in other contexts.

The point at which consciousness is lost in the time peri- ods surrounding isoelectric patterns is not always clear. The slowing of the EEG waveforms is certainly not, on its own, always sufficient to totally abolish consciousness – though it may alter qualitative aspects of consciousness (Karp, Weissler & Heyman, 1961; Wieling et al., 2009). The period leading up to the syncopal attack is typically associated with prodromal symptoms (nausea/confusion/disorientation/light-headedness) – and not vivid hallucination. Therefore, these initial and some-what milder experiences are not to be confused with the actu- al hallucinations of syncope. Interestingly, as Wieling et al., (2009) note, in contrast to auras associated with some epilep- sies, syncopal hallucinations do not actually precede the attack (and hence do not occur in this initial period leading up to iso- electric EEG patterns), but are more associated with the stages of recovery in the EEG, and the individual regaining conscious- ness after an attack after slow waveforms start to re-emerge from the isoelectric state in the EEG (see also Stephenson, 2005).
===================================END QUOTE================================

I THINK THE QUOTE IS ENOUGH TO SHOW SIMILARITY BETWEEN SYNCOPE EXPERIENCES AND NDE, ESPECIALLY BY ON EOF THE PARTICIPANTS ITSELF. I QUOTE AGAIN FROM ABOVE ARTICLE.

“One participant was quoted as saying “I thought that if I had to die in this very moment I would willingly agree”. In addition, two participants reported the high similarity of syncopal experiences to previous post- traumatic NDEs that they had also experienced.”

POINTS TO BE CONSIDERED:

1. SYNCOPE HALLUCINATIONS GIVE INSIGHT REGARDING NDE HALLUCINATIONS. SEEING WHITE LIGHT ETC..

2. NDE IS ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH RECOVERY PERIOD (COMING BACK INTO THE BODY) JUST LIKE SYNCOPE. PERCEPTIONS OF TIME HERE ARE NOT RELIABLE.

3. SO CALLED CORROBORATED NDES ARE ANECDOTAL. CLEARLY ORDINARY EXPLANATION ARE POSSIBLE FOR EACH CASE.

4. WHAT EFFORT DID YOU PUT TO FIND WHICH PART OF THIS VERIDICAL CORROBORATED EXPERIENCE MAY BE MERE HALLUCINATION AND WHICH PART IS REAL.

FOR EXAMPLE, PAM’S HEARING SOME CONVERSATION MAY BE REAL, BUT HER BRAIN MAY HAVE HAD HALLUCINATIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY/IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS THAT IT IS SEEING THE DOCTORS, NURSES, INSTRUMENTS ETC. SUCH A STATE IS POSSIBLE AND DOES HAPPEN.

en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Hypnagogia
==========================quote============================

Hypnagogia is the experience of the transitional state from wakefulness to sleep: the hypnagogic state of consciousness, during the onset of sleep. In opposition, hypnopompia denotes the onset of wakefulness. The related words from the Greek are agōgos “leading”, “inducing”, pompe “act of sending”, and hypnos “sleep”.

Mental phenomena that occur during this “threshold consciousness” phase include lucid thought, lucid dreaming, hallucinations, and sleep paralysis.

Hypnagogic phenomena may be interpreted as visions, prophecies, premonitions, apparitions and inspiration (artistic or divine), depending on the experiencers’ beliefs and those of their culture.
==========================end quote================================

So EXPERIENCES ABOUT JEEBUS AND OTHER ENTITIES may have been mere dreams. Although the NDE victim might have heard real conversations in Hypnagogic state, he/she may have gone completely into a dream state right after this event and seen images of jeebus in dreams. So NDE does NOT prove anything. So UNLESS one comes up with REAL OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF OOTHER EXPLANATIONS, NDE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR AFTER LIFE OR SOUL.

Observe that you have NOT addressed properly how and why people of different ethnic/religious groups have NDEs confirming their beliefs? How every contradicting belief can be correct?

For muslims you claimed satan is misguiding. What about Buddhist or Hindu Ndes confirming their beliefs? Is that satan as well? Too many assumptions from your side. The more logical inference is all NDEs are mere dreams. People get dreams conforming their sub-conscious belief system. You can think you are an atheist consciously, however subconsciously yoy may fear hell and punishment for rejecting jeebus. Obviously you will experience such dreams as hell.

Spiritual reality, if real cannot be multicultural. It has to be one reality only. Contradicting truths cannot co-exist in spiritual reality. Hence NDEs are dreams just like syncope experiences.

Unless truly objective evidence comes up, not subjective experiences, one cannot fully trust mere anecdotal evidences. You cannot ignore SYNCOPAL evidence as well, which clearly shows that NDEs are hallucinations like SYNCOPAL hallucinations. Both have similarity like OBEs, seeing white light etc.

POINT 2: SHARED NDEs…

Lets take a hypothetical case of two or a group of people having similar dreams. You may ask if this is possible. Well take a look at the following links.

www(dot)theepochtimes(dot)com/n3/360184-3-astounding-stories-of-people-sharing-the-same-dream/

1. Dan Pearce asked followers on his Facebook page “Single Dad Laughing” to recount the creepiest things their children have said. One response read as follows: 
“One night my daughter, who was then 5, got into bed with me. After both of us going back to sleep, I had a terrible nightmare where I was a murderer. I woke up in the morning and was thinking about my dream when my daughter woke up and looked at me and said, ‘Mummy I had a dream that you were killing people.’”

www(dot)amazon(dot)com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0972910328/woroflucdre-20

It talks about several anecdotal evidences like NDEs. I myself have had such a dream in a new house we moved in with my dear ones. When I asked others in my family if they had such a dream, they confirmed the same. I cannot explain how this works? This is just my/our experience.

Now does this prove that souls exist? Obviously NOT. Clearly they are mere dreams…You will laugh at me if I claim this is evidence for souls.

Now we have seen that NDEs are also similar to syncopal hallucinations or dreams. The very fact that a person in shared NDE is alive and normal and does experience NDEs of others, shows that somehow the person entered a shared dream state and may have experienced what dream state the now dead/alive NDE victim might have experienced.

SO SHARED NDE IS DEFINITELY NOT EVIDENCE FOR EXISTENCE OF SOULS JUST AS SHARED DREAMS ARE NO EVIDENCE FOR EXISTENCE OF SOULS.

EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. THIS IS WHAT IS REQUIRED HERE. A TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT CAN HAVE NO OTHER EXPLANATION.

@Ra

There are many shortfalls in the Bible and God does not get angry at you to point them out. The Bible is written by humans and humans are fallible. Take what makes sense from that book and leave the rest. God gave us a brain to use it. He does not want us to believe blindly in anything. Unlike the Quran that is a book to take as is or to leave it completely, the Bible is a Gold mine. Mine the gold and ignore the dirt.

NDE is a false start to eternity. Jesus says to the NDEr: “Go back to Earth and try again later…..Hurry up, your body is waiting for you”.

@Ali Sina

What are reasons according to you God sent you in a Muslim family followers of pedophile, and rapist Muhammad instead of a Christian family who could be noble, intellectual, philanthropist, follower of Jesus. It was your fortune to come out from the clutches of Muhammad / Islam & learn about jesus otherwise all do not get such chance and remain in ignorance in all their life.

@Ali,
The first video is interesting, but the second video is cruel and hard to watch. It is obvious that the man is on the brink and screaming for psychological help. Look at his shirt and curtain behind him.

Mr Sina, can’t believe you wrote this post – ‘this woman has been misled by satan’ This can be said for all NDE experiences. And they are just videos. You haven’t met concerned people personally.

why?

I was going to respond to you point by point but your posts are too childish and frankly the lowest form of juvenile argumentation. Your modus operandi is to rile up your opponents with any ol’ excuse that you try to pass off as logic. Any reader can see your response is not a rational rebuttal but merely emotional garbage.

I suggest Ali Sina ban you temporarily until you grow up because you are a complete waste of computer cycles.

Phoenix says:
==============================================
No! Sign of electric activity in the brain does NOT necessarily imply consciousness, which is the actual issue at stake.
==============================================

No….the key point is //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//….

The key point is “consistent with cognitive activities” even for rats……..This is what matters here….

You did NOT address this key point at all…

Phoenix says:
==============================================
Except that you do not need instruments, never mind “sensitive” instruments, in order to detect an inactive brain.

CLINICAL CRITERIA FOR BRAIN DEATH
===============================================

Dumbest argument I have ever heard…..

en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Clinical_death#Clinical_death_and_the_determination_of_death

Death was historically believed to be an event that coincided with the onset of clinical death. It is now understood that death is a series of physical events, not a single one, and determination of permanent death is dependent on other factors beyond simple cessation of breathing and heartbeat.

Clinical death that occurs unexpectedly is treated as a medical emergency.

This means that permanent death occurs after clinical death and brain cells may be still functioning.

Phoenix says:
==============================================
This is a red herring and intellectual cowardice. You made positive claims regarding your beliefs, when asked for evidence you then resorted to a false comparison
==============================================

err…let me recall you…you claimed “There is simply zero emprical evidence refuting NDEs in that study.”…

If this is not similar to the claim “you did not disprove the existence of a god” then what is?

I replied that you have NOT shown any evidence that NDEs prove existence of spiritual world and that NDEs are activities of a dying brain and further quoted //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//….

It is you who has made the false comparison here. I did NOT make claims of my belief….The scientific article clearly says //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//….pointing to plausible explanation for NDEs and that brain is NOT permanently dead yet…and so NDEs are NOT evidence for spiritual world.

Phoenix says:
==============================================
You claimed a spirit must materialize before it can be known.
==============================================

Show me where? You are putting words into my mouth, the words which I never said…Here is what I said again..

“EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE”

Where did I say spirit must materialize? Read again and stop lying and putting words into my mouth..

I said “EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD”……It means the EVIDENCE (NOT SPIRIT ITSELF) MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD….IN OTHER WORDS, EVIDENCE SHOULD BE OBSERVABLE BY ONE AND ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY IS WHAT I MEANT…NOT AS NDEs or DREAMS of some person that cannot be verified.

DO NOT REPEAT THIS CRAP AGAIN…

Phoenix says:
==============================================
This clip poses a serious dilemma for muslims. If this person’s testimony is true then Jesus’ message would implicate him as the last messenger of Islam, not Muhammad.
==============================================

Why exactly is jeebus the last messenger here? Did jeebus proclaim this coming alive into this world like muhammad proclaimed when he was alive? NO…then how exactly he becomes last prophet? Silly argument…

Even Muhammad met many prophets in heaven as per stories similar to NDE experiences. Does that make those profiteers last prophets?

Second, I have already provided so many mooslime NDEs where angels, allah and even muhammad have shown them heaven. How do you conveniently reject it? If christian nde experiences are true, then so is muslim nde experience…Why do you christian bigots like Ali Sina and yourself call it fake and/or satanic deception?

Christian bigots like yourselves will accept what is convenient to you and make up evidences, while denying similar kind of experiences from other religions…It is atypical christian hypocrisy and bigotry….

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH…Let the readers see what you guys are….christian bigots…

@Ali,
You made a mistake.Your last 2 comments to me were really meant to ‘why?’

Jesus told me to convert to Islam. (SPECIAL FOR RON)//

This clip poses a serious dilemma for muslims. If this person’s testimony is true then Jesus’ message would implicate him as the last messenger of Islam, not Muhammad. No muslim can take this clip seriously, unless they use it to fool those ignorant of Islam. Muslims are forced to discard this person’s testimony as fraudulent. Islam is, what is written in the Quran and hadith, period.

@why?
//Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//

No! Sign of electric activity in the brain does NOT necessarily imply consciousness, which is the actual issue at stake. When I’m asleep there is electric activity in my brain that causes proteins and ions to be transported across membranes, blood flow is being circulated,tissue growth and repairs are taking place, hormone growth and release are occurring,etc. despite being unconscious.
Yes, there could have been electric activity in the rats brain but how do you prove they were conscious and possibly having NDEs?
==========
//That is what you say. There could be electrical activity in brain but the instruments do NOT measure it as they are NOT sensitive enough.//

Except that you do not need instruments, never mind “sensitive” instruments, in order to detect an inactive brain. According to the Journal of American Medical Association, there is a 4 step clinical criteria that suffice, without the use of EEG’s or fMRI’s.
CLINICAL CRITERIA FOR BRAIN DEATH
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=181900#CLINICALCRITERIAFORBRAINDEATH
– No response to any stimulus—no movement, withdrawal, grimace, or blinking

-No breathing efforts when taken off the ventilator (the apnea test)

– Pupils dilated and not responsive to light

-No gag reflex, no corneal reflex (blinking when the surface of the eye is touched), and absence of other specific reflexes
===
there is zero evidence for NDEs being evidence for spiritual world. You are assuming as though NDEs are evidence for something and asking one to disprove it. This is like asking somebody to disprove absence of existence of God. Twisted backward logic…Skeptics rightly say that there is conventional explanation for NDEs and therefore NDE is NOT an evidence for existence of souls//

This is a red herring and intellectual cowardice. You made positive claims regarding your beliefs, when asked for evidence you then resorted to a false comparison “This is like asking somebody to disprove absence of existence of God”. You were not asked to prove a negative. You were asked for evidence for your assertions. Either you provide them or your position is merely one of rejectionism.

“Jesus told me to convert to Islam. (SPECIAL FOR RON)”

This woman has been mislead by Satan. Note that she says she participated in “interfaith” meetings and practiced Islamic prayers. On the other words she opened the door for demons to enter in her life. That is why Christians who practice interfaith gathering s with Muslims are exposing themselves to Satanic influences.

@Ra

“ A person whose eyes, ears are allegedly plugged and hearing others conversations. This can be heightened activity of brain, somehow causing hypersensitive sense organs. Besides since it is the brain that is actually causing perception of all kinds”

I hope you read what you wrote and realize how silly it sounds. So you think a dead brain becomes hypersensitive? I will believe that when the dead body becomes a superman. And you expect people read this kind of reasoning and not laugh? Okay I control myself. How can a hyper sensitive dead brain accurately report what people in other rooms say and do?

Please look at yourself. You have become the very personification of bigotry, fanaticism and blind faith. Read what you wrote. For the life of me I can’t understand how a person can say such absurdity with straight face.

“there can be certain unknown phenomenon of neurons in brain that can even by-pass sense organs and directly perceive the world around. Telepathy or other extra-sensory perceptions of world can be explained in this way.”

Really? Is this your level of scientific reasoning?

NDE is a false start to the afterlife.

Phoenix says:
================================================
There is simply zero emprical evidence refuting NDEs in that study. Skeptics took this conventional explanation and just ran with it until it took a life of its own.
================================================
This is funny…First nobody refuted NDEs….it called “Near death experiences” and NOT “after death experiences” for a reason…
there is zero evidence for NDEs being evidence for spiritual world. You are assuming as though NDEs are evidence for something and asking one to disprove it. This is like asking somebody to disprove existence of God. Twisted backward logic…Skeptics rightly say that there is conventional explanation for NDEs and therefore NDE is NOT an evidence for existence of souls,,,,

Phoenix says:
================================================
Classic ontological fallacy, known as a Category Error. If a spirit has to materialize in order to prove its existence then it has undermined its own nature. Spirit and material are two completely different ontological categories.
================================================

“EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE”

May be I should rephrase it. Before that where have I said anything about “spirit” should materialize in this world.

I said evidence of spiritual world must materialize in this world in some way. Second, you are assuming that “spirit” CANNOT appear inside (in some form) material world. Then how did you suggest NDE as evidence?

I two categories P and Q are so mutually exclusive from each other, then there is no way to know P from Q. The fact is NDEs or subjectve experiences are considered shows that even you do NOT consider P and Q are absolutely mutually exclusive.

NDEs are subjective experiences, NOT objective as in people surrounding NDE experiencers cannot observe it. Evidence must include some of sort of objective observations.

Muslim Woman Gives Jesus One Week To Prove Himself Before Ending Her Life. Then This Happens!…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJUh-Jeqfrg

Let’s look at why?’s logic:

“EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE”

Classic ontological fallacy, known as a Category Error. If a spirit has to materialize in order to prove its existence then it has undermined its own nature. Spirit and material are two completely different ontological categories.
Put another way: To search for category P inside category Q ,while asserting both categories to have different characteristics and then insisting to find P only inside Q is irrational and absurd.

Perhaps you can give an example of the spiritual world materializing within your frame of logic.

why?
//The scientific experiment on rats published in the journal Nature reveals the basis of NDE experiences being one last ditch effort by neurons in brain. NDE is mere neural activity. BY LAW OF PARSIMONY THIS APPEARS TO BE THE SIMPLE TRUTH REGARDING NDEs//

First, Law of Parsimony is not a law of physics or law of logic, it is a rule of thumb about which Einsten said, ” A theory should be as simple as neccessary and not simpler”.
Second, a simpler hypothesis does not automatically make it the correct one, unless it takes into account all of the data without postulating unecessary entities. The study published in Nature only takes into account what can be called “remnants of electrical activity”. To extrapolate any other data beyond this simple fact is pure conjecture.
Third, there are studies that report patients with flatline EEGs having NDEs. There are also shared-NDEs and of course accounts of veridical perception which has been corroborated. Most, if not all of these accounts occured well after the “30 second” mark.

@Ra

Before day of judgment how muhammad reached in heaven. Was muhammad liar who said on the day of judgment fate of all souls would be decided according to their faith. Only muhammad has exclusive right to meet with Allah how can your usman Ali and Zeshan ali had experience of divinity. They are liar and against their own muhammad and Quran.

@Ali Sina

What is your thought about animals, reptiles, birds, insects? for which purpose they come in this world? If one does not learn to love, to forgiveness, how is his/her afterlife? Jesus is eternal king of heaven? or he got enlightenment and then he became king of heaven.

Ray said:
=============================================
lol “why?” The Daily Currant is a fake comedy news site.
=============================================

You are absolutely right and it is a mistake on my part. I agree I made a mistake. However my argument stays. This is NOT the only video I provided.

NDEs are nothing more than weird dreams people have. HERE IS MORE EVIDENCE and weird ones also..

www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=B4tsHQFmR2s

Jesus told me to convert to Islam (TALK ABOUT CRAZY NDEs)

www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=O1nke9Tqf54

Back From Death ~ Story Of a Chinese ‘Millionaire’ Become Muslim (Chinese getting islamic NDEs now thats crazy one)

ndevideos(dot)com/mufti-shamsuddoha/

Mufti Shamsuddoha

Muslim: Mufti Shamsuddoha was an agnostic or maybe even an athiest. Though he was born in a Hindu country he was not a Hindu at the time of his NDE. Later on he became a Sifi which is a branch of the Islam faith.
===================================================

If you christians give preference to ur christian ndes, then mooslime ndes must also be right. Like your religions, ndes are also contradictory. HENCE LIKE YOUR RELIGIONS, NDEs ARE ALSO FAKE OR TWISTED IMAGINATION OF FOLLOWERS AND NOTHING MORE.

@why?

Oh i see where you’re going now. Personally I do still consider them spiritual experiences but tailored by outside entities. In their NDE they still uncover things they they should never have been able to know.

So what is your personal objective proof that makes you a spiritual believer?

dailycurrant(dot)com/2014/05/05/christian-boy-dies-for-3-minutes-meets-allah-in-heaven/

Christian Boy Dies For 3 Minutes, Meets Allah in Heaven
May 05, 2014

A young Christian boy who briefly died on a surgeon’s operating table this weekend says he met someone named Allah in heaven.

Bobby Anderson, the son of a well-known Christian pastor in Atlanta, suffered internal injuries from an automobile accident and was technically dead for 3 minutes before being resuscitated. During that time the 12-year-old claims he visited the afterlife and spoke to several leading figures of the Islamic religion.

“I didn’t see Jesus anywhere,” he told WGCL news after the ordeal. “There was someone named Allah. And someone named Mohammad. And there were 72 very beautiful women all around me.

“But I didn’t see anyone in my family. Not even grandma and grandpa. Everyone there had darker skin. They weren’t like us at all.

“I asked my father ‘Why wasn’t Jesus in heaven daddy?’ He couldn’t give me an answer. I’d never heard of Allah before this, but now I’m gonna read more about him. He seems pretty real to me.”

Bobby Anderson’s story bears striking similarities to that of Colton Burpo, a pastor’s son who briefly died during surgery and later claimed to have met with Jesus in heaven.

Coulton’s story was told in the popular book Heaven is For Real, which is now a major motion picture starring Greg Kinnear and Thomas Hayden Church.

Although the Burpo’s family’s story had a happy and lucrative ending, the Anderson family has been torn apart by Bobby’s claims.

However, Todd Anderson, Bobby’s father, says his son’s experience has not made him question his own deeply held Christian faith.

“It’s kinda disturbing to me that he didn’t meet Jesus in heaven,” he told reporters, “but clearly my son is suffering from some sort of schizophrenia or something.

“I mean seeing Jesus in heaven, that’s a miracle. No question. But seeing Allah in heaven? That’s crying out for a heavy dose of antipsychotic medication.”

===================================
NOTE: DID U NOTICE CHRISTIAN HYPOCRISY HERE. THEY BELIEVE AND USE CHRISTIAN NDES BUT MOOSLIME NDES ARE SCHIZOPHRENIA…I SAY ALL NDES ARE SIMILAR TO SCHIZOPHRENIA OR PARKINSONS DISEASE…
====================================

@Ali Sina,
===============================================================
NDE is an objective phenomenon.

There are hundreds of stories like this. This case is closed. The other world is real. Those who don’t want to accept it are willfully ignorant and bigots.
=================================================

NDEs are subjective experiences. Let me school the stupid mazer man-god jeebus worshiping fool (Phoenix) here as well.

I am NOT an atheist is well known to you all. I do believe in spiritual world, but it is NOT because of NDEs.

Objective experiences are seen and experienced by one and all. Example, if one person sees a phenomenon, then the person(s) who is (are) physically near him also sees (see) the same phenomenon.

NDE is a subjective experience of just ONE person who undergoes this NDE. Hence NDE is subjective absolutely.

I am aware of all such stories as you have come up with. There can be alternate explanations for such claims. As long as alternate explanations exist, NDEs do NOT prove anything.

A person whose eyes, ears are allegedly plugged and hearing others conversations. This can be heightened activity of brain, somehow causing hypersensitive sense organs. Besides since it is the brain that is actually causing perception of all kinds, there can be certain unknown phenomenon of neurons in brain that can even by-pass sense organs and directly perceive the world around. Telepathy or other extra-sensory perceptions of world can be explained in this way.

Now regarding some people identifying daughter of some woman, these can be a mixture of signals in brain. Sometimes we feel that we have seen some person and that he/she is very familiar to us while in reality we have NOT met that person at all or that some particular event is repeating (deja vu). These are instances where brain mixes up past events and creates new events or people in brain. This is how dreams work. In dreams we see new faces or sometimes familiar faces or both together. NDEs are similar in this case. It may happen that these faces can even exist in reality. Besides we do NOT know if some telepathic communication has occurred or NOT between two people. Such communication is possible. We often experience such things with close and dear ones, where without a person saying anything we come to know about the thoughts of the dear ones. We make phone calls to dear ones who are far away just when they also feel to make a phone call or some similar event. So subjective experiences like NDEs, telepathy etc. can have alternate explanations that is completely matter based and nothing spiritual about it.

@Why

NDE is an objective phenomenon. People who come back from death bring information from this world that they could not have if they did not actually go out of their body. They report seeing what the doctors and nurses did and said when they were unconscious and their eyes covered and ears plugged. They see everything from the vantage point of ceiling. They go through walls and meet their relatives in the waiting room and accurately report what they said and did. They sometimes gain psychic ability. While it the spirit form they sometimes can know the thoughts, fears and hopes of the people they meet.

One woman who died met a young woman in the other world who passed her a message and told her this is for her mother. She came back having no knowledge of who the person she should deliver the message was. Not long after her experience she felt a strong urge to enter into a Church which she had never visited. White inside the Church and during the service she strongly felt that she should go to the garden. In the Garden she met a woman dressed in black. Without knowing her she approached her and started talking to her. She felt this was the woman to whom she had to deliver the message. She asked whether she had lost a daughter. The woman confirmed. She told her about her NDE and described the young woman she had met in the other word. The woman dressed in black pulled out a photo of her daughter and it was the same young woman this person had seen in heaven.

The mother and daughter had become estranged and the daughter died in another state without they having the chance to mend their relationship and this tormented the mother. The daughter’s message was one of apology to her mother and the assurance that she is fine. While the woman with NDE described the person she had met in heaven even before seeing her picture and then recognized the picture, the mother recognized the message.

There are hundreds of stories like this. This case is closed. The other world is real. Those who don’t want to accept it are willfully ignorant and bigots.

Why people in NDE see the god(s) or messiahs or profiteers or whatever they subconsciously believe? A mooslime can believe in jeebus subconsciously or a Christian can believe in islam subconsciously. Spiritual world CANNOT OBVIOUSLY BE A MULTICULTURAL SOCIETY.

ndevideos(dot)com/usman-ali/

Usman Ali (Made a deal with Allah)

ndevideos(dot)com/zeshan-ali-speaks-to-mohammad-pubh/

Zeshan Ali (Speaks to Mohammad PBUH)
MUSLIM: Zeshan Ali from Karachi Pakistan, testifies that when he died he was in the presence of the Prophet Mohammad (Pbuh). He asked questions and got some profound answers about the Islam believers afterlife.

The scientific experiment on rats published in the journal Nature reveals the basis of NDE experiences being one last ditch effort by neurons in brain. NDE is mere neural activity. BY LAW OF PARSIMONY THIS APPEARS TO BE THE SIMPLE TRUTH REGARDING NDEs.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/brain-metrics/could_a_final_surge_in

May 01, 2015 | By: Mark Stokes

Could a final surge in brain activity after death explain near-death experiences?

Heightened awareness just after death

Interestingly, the authors even suggest that the level of activity observed during the final active death stage (CAS3) not only resembles the waking state, but might even reflect a heightened state of conscious awareness similar to the “highly lucid and realer-than-real mental experiences reported by near-death survivors”. This is a pretty bold claim that critically depends on their quantification of ‘consciousness’. They argue that in the final stage of brain death there is actually more evidence for consciousness-related activity than during normal wakeful consciousness.

Nevertheless, as the authors note, this research demonstrates a surge in brain activity after death that is consistent with active cognitive processing. This suggests that a neural explanation for these experiences is at least plausible. They have identified the right kind of brain activity for a neural explanation of near-death experiences, yet it remains to be verified whether these signatures do actually relate directly to the subjective experience.

Future directions: The obvious next step is to test weather similar patterns of brain activity are observed in humans after clinical death. Then it will be important to show that such activity is strongly coupled to near-death experience. For example, does the presence or absence of such activity predict whether or not the person would report a near death experience? This second step is obviously fraught with technical and ethical challenges (think: The Flatliners), but would provide good evidence to link the neural phenomena to the phenomenal experience.

http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/04/more-evidence-that-near-death-experiences-are-related-to-brain-activity-not-the-supernatural/

More evidence that near death experiences are related to brain activity, not the supernatural
April 10, 2015

It’s long been suspected that what we describe as near death experiences (NDEs) may be related to processes in the brain that create a flurry of activity to produce the strange sensations. Those that survive the beginning of the shutdown process may tell about it as a religious or spiritual experience. Well, it’s certainly strange. New research supports the idea that it may be physiological, not supernatural.

Near-Death Experiences May Be Explained By Heart-Brain Connection.

The many experiences described by survivors of cardiac arrest — people revived even after their hearts stopped beating, sometimes for many minutes — include moving through a tunnel toward a white light, greeting relatives no longer alive, and overhearing conversations between family members in another room. A new study from the University of Michigan Medical School shows how the brain sends signals to the heart in the moments before death. It is this flurry of mental activity that is key to cardiac demise, the researchers say, and quite probably the foundation of near-death experiences as well.

Including prior research, Dr. Jimo Borjigin explains that the reduction of oxygen during cardiac arrest can stimulate brain activity that may be interpreted as what we call an NDE.

Yes Walter,
We are in a real world and not an illusion and we are saved by grace and faith in Jesus.

Ali,
Very well said.

I was more success minded and trying to be ahead in the rat race in this materialistic world where success is judged by how much wealth you have, how well you are known, what political control you have.

It is when I met folks who accepted Christ and then changed their lives (180 degrees) and some of when then faced persecution and hardships and yet stuck to Jesus, I felt there could be a power in the name of Jesus which is above all powers.

I questioned them, vetted their stories (which were true) and saw the changes in their lives as I needed assurance myself as I never had taken Jesus seriously and never read the gospels and decided that I would like to be like them and accepted Christ.

When you accept Christ then you see and feel compassion on the homeless, orphans, widows, the poor the sick, destitute and the suffering. Also you want to see others saved in Christ (Please note you don’t get any money or position from any source) as you become selfless and love for fellow humans increases.

Christ does make a difference.

Christ answers if your sincerely search for Him.

He changes you for good and you will never be the same again.

Just for the record,the question brought up here is a branch theology that is under the heading of “Theodicy” which is defined as “A justification, in the presence of evil, of God’s goodness, justice, and justice, and knowledge .An explanation of how God , who is all-knowing and all-powerful, and all good, can allow evil in the world.” This is a college textbook definition. This college textbook is WORLD RELIGIONS by Warren Matthews

I think the key here is to understand the true nature of the relationship between the spiritual world and this world.

I think the best analogy we have is something like a flight simulator. This world is like the simulated world – it exists as a concept within the spiritual world. As such we can think of this world as being a place where we can make mistakes – just like a trainee pilot – and ultimately it doesn’t matter. I think that with this added concept the rest of what you say makes even more sense.