Error: No CURL Found - Social Networks AutoPoster needs the CURL PHP extension. Please install it or contact your hosting company to install it.

Why Evil Wins and Goodness Loses – Faithfreedom.org

Why Evil Wins and Goodness Loses

Ali Sina

Ali Sina is the author of Understanding Muhammad and Muslims.

88 Responses

  1. why? says:

    Phoenix,

    How about you grow-up and accept your errors here and NOT behave like an adolescent? Do you have the guts to accept your errors like an adult Phoenix? C’mon show us here that you are adult in reality and NOT an immature adolescent? Lets see you act like an adult here before you blame others of not being an adult.

  2. why? says:

    Phoenix,

    Just saw the so called arguments between the “adults”…LOL….

    Poor Phoenix has nothing logical to say here in this topic and is caught pants down with regard to the verse /2 Thessalonians 3:15….Phoenix did not bother to know even the context of the verse and misunderstood what the verse says….

    Since he is caught red-handed, he is running away to another topic (boring topic) with the excuse of engaging with an “adult”.

    “Adults” in Phoenix’s world run away from a topic when they are caught red-handed making wrong statements and have nothing logical to say….

    Real adults Phoenix accept their errors when their errors are pointed and change for better. They do NOT behave like you making ad-hominem attacks calling others as as not adults and run away to another topic.

    How about you grow-up and accept your errors here and NOT behave like a adolescent.

  3. why? says:

    Phoenix,

    So in your world do these so called “adults” engage in illogical, baseless arguments?

  4. Phoenix says:

    @why?

    I’ve decided to engage with an adult called Certainly Doubtful. You can join in or just watch and see how the grown ups do it.

  5. why? says:

    Phoenix Says:
    ============================================================
    Why? cites a biblical passage and claims it means unbelievers are enemies.

    //2 Thessalonians 3:15;Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.//

    WTF???
    ============================================================

    Pathetic losers this Phoenix and passive observer is…..Despite giving clear evidence from numerous verses, these blind followers of Jeebus will continue with their IGNORANCE, not even putting enough effort to know what the verse is talking about.

    Let me post one commentary for 2 Thessalonians 3:15 and clarify to these lazy fools what the verse is talking about.

    =================================================
    2 Thessalonians 3:15

    biblehub(dot)com/2_thessalonians/3-15(dot)htm

    Young’s Literal Translation
    and as an enemy count him not, but admonish ye him as a brother;

    Pulpit Commentary

    Verse 15. – Yet; or as it is in the original, and; a purely connective particle. Count him not as an enemy; an entire outcast. But admonish him as a brother; a Christian brother. No hostile feeling was to be united with this avoidance of intercourse with the erring, but rather loving admonition, inasmuch as he was still a Christian brother.

    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    15. admonish him as a brother—not yet excommunicated (compare Le 19:17). Do not shun him in contemptuous silence, but tell him why he is so avoided (Mt 18:15; 1Th 5:14).
    ================================================

    When the verse says “count him not” or “do not regard them as an enemy”, whom does the word “him” or “them” refer to?

    Did this lazy Phoenix or the types of “Pasive observer” even put minimal effort to see to whom does the word “him” or “them” refer to? NO…All they can do is mislead passive readers like themselves with IDIOTIC ad-hominem comments, instead of addressing the issue logically.

    THE COMMENTARIES MAKES IT VERY VERY CLEAR THAT THE WORD “HIM” OR “THEM” REFERS TO “ERRING” OR “SINNING” CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE NOT YET BEEN EXCOMMUNICATED FROM COMMUNITY.

    So the verse says:

    Count not the “erring christians” as an enemy (an outcast unbeliever as per Pulpit commentary), but warn these “erring christians” as you would a believer.

    CLEARLY THE VERSE IS CONFIRMING DISTINCTION BETWEEN “BELIEVER” AND “UNBELIEVER”.

    I HAVE ALREADY PROVEN WITH EVIDENCE IN PREVIOUS POSTS THAT SAMARITANS (BELIEVERS IN TORAH AND JEWISH GOD) ARE CONSIDERED AS NEIGHBORS RATHER THAN ENEMY DISBELIEVERS.

    LET THE SANE READERS DECIDE WHAT IS TRUTH HERE. I CAN HOWEVER UNDERSTAND THAT BLIND CHRISTIAN FOLLOWERS OF THE LIKE S OF PASSIVE OBSERVER OR PHOENIX WILL CONTINUE TO DISREGARD WITH THEIR IGNORANCE AND LACK OF LOGIC.

  6. @Sakat
    Why do you want to involve Dr. Ali Sina here? He is a scholar in Islamic studies, esp. Koran and Sunnah. He accepted Jesus as his Saviour and God mainly through hundreds of irrefutable evidences found in NDEs. He has humbly explained this to ‘Why’ a few times. Finally he ignored ‘Why’ as ‘arogant and disrespectful person’.
    Phoenix has rightly termed the posts of ‘Why’ as childish antics. I have seen a book “50,000 errors in the Bible” Not a single Bible scholar came forward to refute those claims. For me, the problem lies not in his writings but in his flawed worldview. If Jesus is a bastard, cracy, and delusional, how his teachings has created peaceful and thriving societies. Whether it is Britain’s “Magna Carta” or American declaration of Independence, or French declaration of the Rights of Man, or Mandela’s “Truth and Reconciliation Commission, all stem from Jesus’ three years teachings. Jesus is the chief corner stone of human society as he predicted 2000 yrs ago in Mathew 21:42
    Let us take “Why’s recent post that Jesus considered ‘unbelievers’ as the enemies. Phoenix has explained beautifully using the ‘Good Samaritan’ parable. Sakat, could you able to see the ignorance of ‘Why’? Jesus exhots the whole humanity to call God as ‘Abba Father’ so that fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man can be built in this world. Who knows calling ‘Father’ may be the first word in the globalisation process, forming UNO, 28 nations coming under EU, then ASEAN, SAARC, GCC etc . Christianity is built on two pillars. Loving God, (Vertical relationship) and Loving Man (horizontal relationship) (Mark 12:29-31). Surprisingly the cross symbolises this concept. Jesus, as God, clearly reject our vertical relationship with God if our horizontal relationship is bad.(Mathew 5::23-24) “keep your offerings at the altar, go back, shake hands with your enemy and com back” Enemies mean those who hurt us in our personal lives.
    The worrying thing is not that ‘Why’ is maligning Jesus. Christians have seen tirades from hundreds of atheists like Richard Dawkins, Dan Brown etc. The thing is ‘Why’ is doing a disservice to Dr. Ali Sina and to this ‘Faithfreedom’ site. He is so foolish not to understand the intention and purpose of this site and that of Ali.
    Please be cool and relax with Shreya Kant’s beautiful songs “Mera yesu live” I don’t know Hindi yet enjoys her songs. She,(a Punjabi) along with her parents, attracts thousands of high cast young people with her dance,

  7. Phoenix says:

    @why?

    I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide if what you’re saying is coherent or not.

    This example alone is enough to illustrate your bizzare reasoning.
    ===
    Why? cites a biblical passage and claims it means unbelievers are enemies.

    //2 Thessalonians 3:15;Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.//

    WTF???

  8. why? says:

    I THINK I HAVE PROVEN WITH ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT THE SO CALLED TEACHINGS OF LOVE OF JEEBUS IS NOTHING MORE THAN SELF-CONCEITED EGOISTIC STATE OF MIND OF JEEBUS.

    CHRISTIANS GO AROUND BELITTLING OTHERS AND THEIR RELIGIONS CALLING SO CALLED JEEBUS LOVE AS SOMETHING GREAT, UNHEARD OF.

    I HAVE EXPOSED ENOUGH SHOWING JEEBUS SO CALLED LOVE DOES NOT INVOLVE ANYTHING GREAT. ALL HE IS ASKING IS GREET PAGANS AS YOU GREET BELIEVERS OR TREAT THEM JUSTLY. WHAT IS SO GREAT IN THIS TEACHING REALLY?

    WE HAVE ALSO SEEN THAT JEEBUS SO CALLED TEACHINGS OF LOVE DOES NOT NEGATE CAPITAL PUNISHMENTS OF MOSES LIKE STONING ETC, AND NOWHERE JEEBUS HAS CONDEMNED SLAVERY.

    BESIDES WHAT KIND OF LOVE WILL CONSIDER INDISCRIMINATELY CONSIDER ALL UNBELIEVERS A EVIL, UNRIGHTEOUS, DARKNESS, DOGS AND AS LESSER BEINGS? THIS PROVES SO CALLED GREAT TEACHINGS OF LOVE OF JEEBUS IS NOTHING MORE THAN MERE DELUSIONAL SELF-CONCEITED SELF-GRANDEUR.

  9. why? says:

    Phoenix Says:
    ==========================================================
    Either Jesus was a murderer, rapist, pedophile, robber, slave-master and therefore identical to Muhammad or not. There’s no middle ground. Why? has been desperately trying to link the two leaders with no avail.
    ==========================================================

    Where exactly did I say jeebus and Muhammad are identical? Another strawman and as usual Phoneix creates tangential non-existent debates to derail clearly proven point. Reality is a gray scale, not black or white, evil or good only. There are in-betweens having various degrees of evil and good mixed.

    I made only one statement regarding Muhammad and jeebus in my argument. While Muhammad, Moses are rapists and sex slave owners, Jeebus is a more sophisticated guy, none the less jeebus like Muhammad believed in debasing and calling unbelievers as filthy dogs.

    This is the comparison I made…Again I quote evidence here….Regardless of context, it is true that Jeebus referred to Canaanite woman as a filthy dog.

    Matthew 15

    The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

    25But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”
    26And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”
    27She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”

    You may love your enemies or unbelievers as you love your dog. This is clear evidence from Jeebus himself that THERE IS CLEAR DISNTINCTION BETWEEN BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS.

    Even your first Christians call unbelievers as filthy evil people…

    2 Corinthians 6:14:

    Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

    It is clear why jeebus or first christians look at unbelievers as enemies, filthy dogs and evil….

    THIS EVIDENCE IS ENOUGH TO PROVE THAT JEEBUS AND FIRST CHRISTIANS BELIEVED IN SELF-CONCEIT THAT THEY ARE BETTER AND OTHERS ARE EVIL. THIS IS NOT SPIRITUALITY BUT DELUSIONAL SELF-GRANDEUR OF JEEBUS, FIRST CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANS IN GENERAL. THIS DELUSION MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM MUHAMMAD OR MOSES, BUT DELUSIONAL SELF-GRNADEUR NONE THE LESS.

    Phoenix Says:
    ==========================================================
    Using the exact verses that why? claims love is reserved for believers only. The second last verse in brackets explcitly frowns upon tribalism .Yet why?. managed to come up with a contradictory conclusion. This is why no one really engages him, it is an excercise in futility.

    (And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?)
    =========================================================

    Where did I claim love is for believers only….Read it again before coming up with more strawman..

    “You may love your enemies or unbelievers as you love your dog. This is clear evidence from Jeebus himself that THERE IS CLEAR DISNTINCTION BETWEEN BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS.”

    This is clear from the statement made by jeebus and Canaanite woman that she a dog eats scraps from the master’s table, when jeebus called Cannanite woman as a dog.

    CLEARLY THE SO CALLED TEACHINGS OF LOVE ARE IN REALITY SAYING LOOK HOW GOOD CHRISTIANS ARE WHILE ALL OTHERS ARE EVIL, YET CHRISTIANS LOVE THEM. THIS IS HOW JEEBUS, FIRST CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANS TODAY TAUGHT/TEACH AND THOUGHT/THINK ABOUT OTHERS.

    The verse in brackets clearly distinguishes between believer and unbeliever. It proves my point. It actually enforces tribalism by distinguishing Christians from pagans and asking them to be better than pagans. It creates a self-conceited identity for Christians that somehow they are better than others and therefore should act better. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED VERSES FROM FIRST CHRISTIANS (PAUL) AND JEEBUS HIMSELF WHERE THEY CALL UNBELIEVERS AS EVIL AND FILTHY DOG. THIS FURTHER ENFORCES WHAT I SAY.

    THE BIBLE WHICH SAYS GREET PAGANS ALSO CALLS CANAANITE WOMAN AS DOG AND UNBELLIEVERS AS EVIL, UNRIGHTEOUS AND DARKNESS. YOU MAY CALL IT LOVE, BUT THIS IS CLEARLY NOTHING MORE THAN SELF-CONCEIT WHICH BIBLE TEACHES FOR THE MENTALLY IMBALANCED FOLLOWERS.

    Either Jesus was a murderer, rapist, pedophile, robber, slave-master and therefore identical to Muhammad or not. There’s no middle ground. Why? has been desperately trying to link the two leaders with no avail.

    Using the exact verses that why? claims love is reserved for believers only. The second last verse in brackets explcitly frowns upon tribalism .Yet why?. managed to come up with a contradictory conclusion. This is why no one really engages him, it is an excercise in futility.

  10. why? says:

    Phoenix Says:
    ==========================================================
    In Luke 10:29-37 (Parable of the Samaritan) a lawyer ask jesus who qualifies as a neighbor? Jesus uses an enemy of the jew (samaritan) and protrays him in a positive light.

    This exposition is enough to demonstrate the irrationality that is why? Clearly neighbor does not mean brother or tribe member.
    ==========================================================

    Strawman argument….

    First of all notice how this crypto Christian deceptively avoids the contrast between “neighbor” and “enemy” which jeebus himself quotes in the same verses.

    Matthew 5:43-48

    You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

    Jeebus himself again contrasts believers with pagans and asks his followers, if you believers do what pagans do, what is great in you? THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE DECEPTIVE AND DISHONEST WHEN IT COMES TO JEEBUS AND BIBLE….

    The verse (quote from jeebus himself) itself clearly and explicitly calls “believers” are neighbors and “pagans” are enemies. One need NOT go to another verse to show anything.

    Again notice, how this supposedly “not Christian” guy Phoenix clearly avoids question on Slavery and numerous other quotes from bible which explicitly shows that jeebus himself called “believers” as brothers and “non-believers” as essentially enemies.

    In Jeebus’ teaching, nowhere in the New Testament, does brother ever refer to an enemy. Moreover, 2 Thessalonians 3:15 (link is external) tells us that if we find it necessary to disfellowship a brother for moral reasons, we are not to regard him as an enemy. An enemy is not a brother.

    2 Thessalonians 3:15

    15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

    CLEARLY AGAIN ENEMY REFERS TO UNBELIEVER ONLY.

    NOW REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER Luke 10:29-37 MEANS, ENEMY ALWAYS REFERS TO UNBELIEVERS ONLY IN THE EYES OF JEEBUS OR FIRST CHRISTIANS IN AMPLY CLEAR.

    NOW Luke 10:29-37….

    Does jeebus call enemies as neighbor here? There is no such evidence here at all. Nowhere in the parable jeebus refers to Samaritans as enemies.

    Who are Samaritans? Are they considered enemies in some way by jeebus or jews? Is there any evidence for this? NONE at all…

    SO WHY DOES THIS PHOENIX DECEPTVELY REFERS TO SAMARITANS AS ENEMIES? I WILL EXPOSE THIS LIES HERE…

    BEFORE THAT, WHO IS A NEIGHBOR? WE WILL SEE HERE…
    Leviticus 19:18
    18 “ ‘Do not seek revengep or bear a grudgeq against anyone among your people,r but love your neighbors as yourself.t I am the Lord.
    CLEARLY AS PER THE OT VERSE, A NEIGHBOR IS SOMEONE WHO IS FROM YOUR PEOPLE i.e. BELIEVERS MOSTLY. HERE IT SAYS LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AND DO NOT BEAR GURDGE WITH THEM.

    Jeebus was merely quoting this OT verse when he said

    You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.”

    So it is clear that “neighbor” refers to people from same community of believers OR people who live together.

    Now in Luke 10:29-37, why did Jeebus use the a “Samaritan”, a “Levite” and a priest of Jews as examples in this parable?

    Notice jeebus does NOT use a Roman as an example here. Why?

    This is because a Roman is never considered a “neighbor” for a Jew…. A neighbor for the population in the region would be people living in that region.

    Who are the neighbors in that region? Obviously Jews and different sects (Samaritans) that live in that region. NOTE SAMARITANS ARE NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM JEWS. THEY BELIEVE IN THE 5 BOOKS OF TORAH, WHILE NOT BELIEVE IN OTHER BOOKS OF TANAKH AND PRAY TO SAME GOD AS JEWS AS PER TORAH’S 5 BOOKS. SAMARITANS ARE NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM JEWS IN BELIEF AS WELL.

    Just as it is possible to hate or bear grudge to a fellow believer, it is possible to bear hate or grudge against different sects of Jews or similar sects like Judaism (samaritans). They are neighbors none the less.

    If ONLY HATE makes two people enemy, then even two believers or brothers become enemies. That would be NONSENSE argument. THIS IS THE SAME NONSENSE ARGUMENT PHOENIX IS MAKING REGARDING SAMARITANS.

  11. Phoenix says:

    Using the exact verses that why? claims love is reserved for believers only. The second last verse in brackets explcitly frowns upon tribalism .Yet why?. managed to come up with a contradictory conclusion. This is why no one really engages him, it is an excercise in futility.

    Matthew 5:43-48
    You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?) Do not even pagans do that?

  12. Phoenix says:

    @Sakat

    I’m not an apologetic for Christianity nor have I stated my religious affiliation on this site. I do however defend Christianity where I can against unjust accusations. I have defended Hinduism and Buddhism against unjust attacks in the past.
    For instance, here why? attempts to equate Jesus and Muhammad by claiming love your neighbors refers to believers only;

    Says why?://Now let’s see the verses on “love your enemy” and its meaning in context.Matthew 5:43-48//

    In Luke 10:29-37 (Parable of the Samaritan) a lawyer ask jesus who qualifies as a neighbor? Jesus uses an enemy of the jew (samaritan) and protrays him in a positive light. Clearly this could not be any more dissimilar from Muhammad.

    “29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
    30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
    36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
    37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
    Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
    ===
    This exposition is enough to demonstrate the irrationality that is why? Clearly neighbor does not mean brother or tribe member.
    Either Jesus was a murderer, rapist, pedophile, robber, slave-master and therefore identical to Muhammad or not. There’s no middle ground. Why? has been desperately trying to link the two leaders with no avail.

  13. Sakat says:

    Phoenix

    My dear learned friend Phoenix i have lot of respect for you, Now let me concentrate on your reply,
    it is your view ; “The childish antics seem to have eluded you. Is “jeebus” a play on words? If so, where exactly is the pun? Or is it a joke? If so, what exactly is the punchline?”
    In spirituality ,the term “words” have no importance ,words are useful only in duality for comparison .Truth is always “One”,AND PERHAPS YOU KNOW ;THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TRUTH .So if you wish to live in duality (that is in materialism) and want to debate spirituality on the basis of NDE and other kind of mental exercises ,i think it is not going to help you either or Sina much.Some time back ,one evangelist has posted a NDE video of Buddha, suffering in the hell narrated by a monk ,may i ask you what kind of evil thing Buddha has done so that ,he was made to spend his after life in hell .

    You may hate Mr Why,but none of the commenters here is having sound argument to disprove his valid ,logical and rational charges leveled against Jesus.When Sina found it is not possible to refute Why’s sound arguments ,he took refuge in arguementum -ad-hominum .

    Why, was survived here because he is having solid foundation of eastern philosophy behind him ,which he has studied in depth with practical exercises ,which Dr.Sina is lacking in this spiritual eloquence ,which cannot be replaced by materialistic knowledge .

    Since Why has used the term Jeebus for Jesus and he mean it by upholding his given title to Jesus with solid argument here on this platform right under the nose of Dr.Sina ,and it seems Dr.Sina is helpless. .

  14. why? says:

    Sakat,

    Its simple…they do not have anything logical to say…so pick some or any silly excuse….I will continue to address this character as jeebus only, a crazy delusional fellow.

  15. Phoenix says:

    @sakat

    What offending element you found in calling Jesus as Jeebus by Mr Why .?//

    The childish antics seem to have eluded you. Is “jeebus” a play on words? If so, where exactly is the pun? Or is it a joke? If so, what exactly is the punchline?
    Yes Sakat, it offends me to have to engage in schoolyard taunting with an adult.

  16. Sakat says:

    passive observer
    With due respect to you and Dr Sina .
    What offending element you found in calling Jesus as Jeebus by Mr Why .?

  17. @ Sakat,

    I suppose you didn’t see Ali Sina’s post to “Why” on Dec 23. The gist of the post is here:
    “At lease learn the name of Jesus and pronounce it correctly. I can see you are an arrogant disrespectful person. I can see you are not a serious person but a confused human being not interested to learn. I am going to ignore your comments from now on.”

    Yes, “Why” should learn first to pronounce the name of Jesus correctly. If he is having such a burning hatred towards Jesus then nobody will respond to him. They may resort to Jesus advice found in (Mathew 7:6)

  18. Sakat says:

    Dear Dr Sina
    i am following you since last many years ,when it comes to debate with any Muslim scholar you did not waste time to respond him/her, upon receiving his/her reply,but it is unfortunate that ,you are stumbling now engaging “why”. May ask you why ?. My Hat is up to you Mr Why!!!!!! ,keep it up .

  19. why? says:

    Now let’s see the verses on “love your enemy” and its meaning in context.

    Matthew 5:43-48

    You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

    By the way who the hell are these enemies? After identifying who are “enemies” we will delve into its meanings.

    In gospels jeebus talks often about neighbors or brothers and contrasts neighbors/brothers with enemies like the above verse.

    The above verse is jeebus’ quote from OT. Neighbor from OT is defined as any believer who lives among Israelites. Jeebus uses the word brothers to mean fellow believers. Similarly brothers also refer to fellow believers, in this case, to Jesus’ disciples (Matthew 12:48-50). This is a member of the church (Matthew 18:15-17; 28:10).

    Now that we have established “brothers” or “neighbors” mean “believers”, we can see that “enemies” refer to “unbelievers”. THIS IS A PRIMITIVE BARBARIC THINKING PROCESS MUHAMMAD ALSO ADOPTED. Clearly even Jeebus sees unbelievers as enemies and as dirty people (filthy dogs). Again we have evidence for this barbaric thinking of jeebus from gospels itself. Regardless of context, it is true that Jeebus referred to Canaanite woman as a filthy dog.

    Matthew 15

    The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

    25But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”
    26And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”
    27She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”

    You may love your enemies or unbelievers as you love your dog. This is clear evidence from Jeebus himself that THERE IS CLEAR DISNTINCTION BETWEEN BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS. Also note the following

    Matthew 5:48: And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

    Clearly brothers who are believers are contrasted with unbelievers who are pagans and referred as enemies…

    Now so called “teachings of love” of jeebus…..when jeebus said love your enemies what did he mean? Did it mean to make enemies part of family or give your daughter and sister in marriage to them? Did it mean give away all your earnings and property to them? Did it mean to give your soul, body and belongings to them?

    What did jeebus mean by loving your enemies….

    Matthew 5:48: And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

    Jeebus gives an illustration of “love”…greet them unbeliever enemies just as you greet your brothers…if pagans curse you, pray for them etc. etc…

    I really do NOT find anything great in this teaching OF JEEBUS. This is normal thinking for any NORMAL person in a civilized society. THIS DOES NOT REQUIRE GREAT SACRIFICE FOR A PERSON DOING IT, except minor adjustment of attitude.

    Again this may be difficult for Christians who are brainwashed into thinking that pagans/unbelievers are evil and that christians by default are good. Consider Paul’s statements below.

    2 Corinthians 6:14:

    Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

    It is clear why jeebus or first christians look at unbelievers as enemies, filthy dogs and evil….

    CLEARLY THE SO CALLED TEACHINGS OF LOVE ARE IN REALITY SAYING LOOK HOW GOOD CHRISTIANS ARE WHILE ALL OTHERS ARE EVIL, YET CHRISTIANS LOVE THEM. THIS IS HOW JEEBUS, FIRST CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANS TODAY TAUGHT/TEACH AND THOUGHT/THINK ABOUT OTHERS.

    DOES REAL LOVING KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON INDISCRIMINATELY THINK SO ABOUT ALL OTHERS? CHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT IDIOTIC EMOTIONS AND IGNORANCE.

    THE REAL QUESTION IS WHETHER ANY OF THESE TEACHINGS CONDEMN SLAVERY, STONING OR DEATH SENTENCES IMPLICITLY. ANSWER IS NO AS WE HAVE SEEN FROM JEEBUS OWN TEACHINGS supporting major capital punishments of Moses explicitly.

    THIS EXPLAINS WHY SLAVERY WAS PRACTICED BY CHRISTIANS FOR 1600 YEARS.

  20. why? says:

    John 7:24 (Jeebus’ statement on legal/moral jewish issues like adultery)

    Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.

    Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    John 8:7

    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    “Let him first cast a stone at her”

    The commentator Ellicott explains beautifully that jeebus was asking the witness(es) to step forward first and cast a stone at her…….

    Ellicott’ Commentary: “Let him first” means “let him first of you”; not “let him cast the first stone.” This was the duty of the witnesses.

    Clearly, jeebus wanted the witness(es) to step forward first and STONE the set-up adulteress (false actress as adulteress) before others do it…This is requirement of Mosaic law…..

    http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9981/jewish/Chapter-17.htm

    Devarim – Deuteronomy – Chapter 17:6-7

    6 By the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall the one liable to death be put to death; he shall not be put to death by the mouth of one witness.

    7 The hand of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people, and you shall abolish evil from among you.

    If any witness steps forward they will be examined and if found false will be themselves STONED as per Deuteronomy 19:16-21….

    This is what jeebus meant when he said (sinless one of you) anamartētos=sinless, guiltless or without guilt in the verse. He challenged the so called witnesses if they are NOT guilty of making false claims to step forward first. Note that jeebus is NOT asking for witnesses to be absolutely sinless. No Mosaic law asks for such a condition from witnesses. That would be nonsense and no crime can be punished in such a case and would nullify Moses’ laws. If jeebus voided Moses’ law by such requirement, then jeebus would be caught for blasphemy. The cunning Jews did Not understand in this manner, but Jeebus’ reference to them as false witnesses and ran away in fear.

    So it is clear here that Jeebus did Not do away with Moses’ laws of stoning, rather asked for correct judgment, which proves that although jeebus taught so called “love”, he did Not do away with punishments, including stoning and death sentences of Moses. Neither did these Jeebus’ teachings do away with slavery as Jeebus never explicitly condemned slavery as evil.

  21. why? says:

    passive observer says:
    =====================================================
    It is true that Jesus did not speak about slavery, democracy or rule of law, but His central teachings on loving others, including the enemies have continually uplifted humanity throughout the centuries.
    =====================================================

    Does democracy involve destroying pagan temples and murdering non-christians and implementing laws against other religions? This christian emperor Theodosius I and many others in Europe implemented Christian shariah against pagans for last 2000 years, that included destruction of pagan temples, laws prohibiting or controlling construction of pagan temples, propagation of pagan faith’s etc, murdered pagan believers etc.

    Does democracy involve slaver trade for 1600 years or more?

    Please stop your pious lies. Now christians quote following verses to deny charges of slavery etc. and in fact any negative charge on jeebus.

    Matthew 5:43-48

    You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

    We have already seen that slavery is NOT condemned either by jeebus or any of the first christians anywhere in NT.

    Just because jeebus taught so called “love”, can we claim that jeebus was against laws of Moses such as stoning etc…We have explicit evidence that jeebus considered stoning or death sentences as “god given law”.

    Matthew 15
    3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; [a] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

    Clearly, regardless of context, jeebus believed in death sentence commanded by god for insulting parents. If jeebus believes in god commanding death sentence for simply insulting parents, it is uncontested that jeebus will question death sentence awarded by god’s command for adultery.

    John 8:7Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)

    7 and when they continued asking him, having bent himself back, he said unto them, `The sinless of you — let him first cast the stone at her;’

    Many Christians intentionally mislead (taqiah) others about jeebus’ forgiving an adulteress as an example where jeebus put away Moses stoning law and hence slavery etc. THIS IS UTTER LIES. Nowhere in the story of gospels, jeebus explicitly puts away stoning laws for adultery. Instead jeebus asks the first witness to throw the stone. We already discussed in detail this part as well. Jeebus was trapped by some cunning Jews here with a false adultery case. Jeebus was shrewd and prudent enough to know the Jewish law for adultery. It requires 2 or 3 witnesses to produce both male and female caught red-handed during sexual intercourse. The witnesses throw the stone first after adultery is proven. If NOT proven, false witnesses will be stoned.

  22. why? says:

    SLAVERY/SEXUAL SLAVERY AUTHORIZED IN NEW TESTAMENT:

    1. Jeebus was a believing jew….….he believed OT laws are god given…he is unlikely to condemn slavery, sexual slavery etc. mentioned and commanded and approved by OT god…
    2. Jeebus was quite aware of slavery existing in his time and even used slavery as examples in his parables showing that he was aware of slavery…..
    3. New testament itself is full of instances where christian masters with slaves were never asked to redeem the slaves they own….showing that even NT followers of jeebus never condemned slavery as evil….Rather only asked its Christian masters to treat their slaves properly….whatever that means when one is in slavery…CLEARLY ONE CAN BE A CHRISTIAN AND YET OWN A CHRISTIAN SLAVE…

    Colossians 4:1: “Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.”

    Ephesians 6:5: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

    4. If slavery was against Christianity, why didn’t Paul (as above) or any other follower of jeebus say/command explicitly that slavery was against Christianity and all Christian masters should free all slaves? Rather only asked its Christian masters to treat their slaves properly….whatever that means when one is in slavery…

    A. Philemon was a Christian follower of paul. Why Paul did NOT tell Philemon that slavery was against Christianity instead of paying the debt to Philemon, if Christianity or jeebus was against slavery? The fact Paul did not tell this shows that neither Paul nor Christianity is against slavery.
    B. Paul paid the debt of onesimus because he was a Christian convert and Paul wanted to help him…
    C. Nowhere Paul explicitly condemns slavery as evil…How will he, when jeebus himself did NOT explicitly condemn slavery?

    5. Paul sends back Onesimus back to his Christian master Philemon and asks him to receive as his brother in christ, but never asked him explicitly to manumit him from slavery. THIS SHOWS THAT PAUL DID NOT WANT SLAVERY ABOLISHED. REFER TO POINT 3 IN CAPITALS BEFORE YOU SPOUT MORE STRAWMAN NONSENSE…
    6. Slavery was practiced by Christians for last 1600 years or more and was ONLY recently abolished because of secular laws and NOT DUE TO CHRISTIANITY…
    WESTERN RACISM is ROOTED IN CHRISTIAN SLAVERY…

  23. why? says:

    passive observer says:
    =====================================================
    Ali Sina
    I have shown some of the posts of ‘Why’ to my Indian friend. He asserts ‘Why’ must be one of the leaders of RSS terror group that massacred more than 65 Christians,
    ====================================================

    LOL……..When christians run out of any logical argument, all they do is call their opponents names and brand them as terrorists, just like the communist scums….

    Anyway, I also showed some of posts of ‘passive observer’ and others to my American friends. They assert that ‘passive observer’ ad others must leaders of ‘Army of God’ and KKK. Indian christian terrorist orgs like NLFT shoot little Hindu girls with AK47s for celebrating Hindu festivals, rapes, murders and destroys Hindu temples in India.

    en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

    The National Liberation Front of Tripura (or NLFT) is a Tripuri nationalist Christian terrorist organisation based in Tripura, India.

    The Baptist Church of Tripura was initially set up by missionaries from New Zealand in the 1940s. Despite their efforts, even until the 1980s, only a few thousand people in Tripura had converted to Christianity. In the aftermath of one of the worst ethnic riots, the NLFT was born in 1989 with the backing of the Baptist Church of Tripura.[9] Since then, the NLFT has been advancing its cause through armed rebellion.

    www(dot)telegraphindia(dot)com/1040314/asp/northeast/story_3000888(dot)asp

    Agartala, March 13: NLFT rebels raped six Chakma women and killed a villager in Dhalai district of Tripura on Thursday night, police sources said here today.

    The militants forced all the residents to sing and dance and later asked the 29 male villagers to lie down. After torturing the villagers and injuring 14 of them, the militants turned the heat on the women and raped six of them.

    The victims included young girls and their mothers.

  24. Ali Sina
    I have shown some of the posts of ‘Why’ to my Indian friend. He asserts ‘Why’ must be one of the leaders of RSS terror group that massacred more than 65 Christians, burned 200 churches, raped a Catholic nun and driven 100,000 to the mountains for safety, in Odisha state in 2008. These most backward tribal people are untouchable by other Hindus. However Christian missionaries looked after them.
    It is true that Jesus did not speak about slavery, democracy or rule of law, but His central teachings on loving others, including the enemies have continually uplifted humanity throughout the centuries. In order to avoid killings during the transfer of power, Christians unearthed democracy (concept invented by Greeks) and implemented it. As far as the slavery is concerned, you will find in the NT book of Philemon the slave Onesimus ran away from his master Philemon, (after stealing some money). Anyhow he met Paul in prison. Paul accepts the slave as his son and send him back to his master Philemon, requesting Philemon to accept the slave as his brother. Philemon (a disciple of Paul) accepts the slave as his brother, on his return. Isn’t amazing? This letter to Philemon is considered as one of the best letters during Roman Empire. Ali, can you treat your servant, who has stolen your valuables, on his return, as your brother and serve him with coffee? Jesus transforms people. William Wilberforce abolished slavery in the British Empire. Abraham Lincoln said “ All men are born equal” and died for it. Jesus transformed the serial killer David Berkowitz, Sadhu Sundar Singh, a Sikh , Ram Babu, a Brahmin, Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of a Hamas leader, Kuwaiti prince Abdullah al-Sabah and above all the slave trader (from Africa to America) John Newton(1725-1807). After conversion he sold his ship and became a missionary and a leader to abolish slavery. The most famous and sweet hymn “Amazing Grace” was written by him. He is pouring out his heart about the amazing grace of Jesus. I will give a few lines.
    “Amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me;
    I once was lost, but now I am found; was blind, but now I see”

    ‘Why’ a harassed soul, doesn’t have the capacity to understand a single sentence of Jesus. Although he reads the Bible but his abhorrence towards Jesus prevent him from understanding the truth. I don’t think he will be able to say before his death, “I was blind, but now I see”. As I understand Jesus, not every Dick and Harry will go to heaven. He said:-
    “Whoever has ears let them hear” (Mt.11:15)
    “Many are called but few are chosen” (Mt.22:14)
    “Not everyone seeing sees; not everyone hearing hears” (Mt. 13:13)
    “ Broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it: Narrow is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it: (Mt.7:13-14)

  25. why? says:

    Ali Sina says:
    ============================================================
    Assume he was not the Messiah. Did he do anything evil to deserve scorn? He gave people some very good teachings and gave his life for that. But you are so filled with hatred of this good man that you can’t even say his name. Why you can’t say Jesus? Because your entire being is filled with hatred of everything that is good.
    ============================================================

    Just emotional rant from yourself….Your claim is he is a “good man”, but I do NOT think he is a good man, but an evil man. It depends on how you define evil or what is good. It depends on your world view. You pick and choose from the bible what fits into the imaginary personality of jeebus you have in your mind. This imaginary jeebus of your mind is of NO business to me. I care less for this fictional character of your mind as much as yourself.

    I have already given several points to show why jeebus, if real, as per bible accounts, cannot be good man.

    1. For me a man who lies through his teeth and uses cheap tricks or perhaps “black magic” (if some so called miracles really happened) to fool people to make them pray to him is EVIL to the core.

    one example of lies is following.

    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Matthew 24:34) = FAILED PROPHECY = LIES.

    2. In my world view a person born to adulterous parents cannot be good at all. Even their own bible confirms this.

    A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
    — Deuteronomy 23:2

    Jeebus was born with 9 months gestation period just as any ordinary human child. Injection of human sperm into a woman results in such birth. There is no miracle here. It is clear case of adultery.

    3. Jeebus who threw the money changers out of temple by physical force, did NOT utter one word against slavery, including sexual slavery in bible. He had several opportunities to do this as an alleged moral teacher. He was acutely aware of slavery during biblical times and used parables.

    4. Jeebus was acutely aware of all jewish laws (stoning adulterous girl story proves that) and certainly was aware of torah allowing sexual slavery of women. If jeebus was such a good man, why he did NOt speak against this evil.

    He was aware of stoning laws against adulterous women/men and called it as God’s commandment.

    No where jeebus has condemned god given Moses’ laws as bad or evil….In fact jeebus himself knew it very clearly about god given capital punishments….

    Matthew 15:3

    For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; [a] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

    Jeebus himself admits that God commanded these laws…..when jeebus states “God commanded them”, was he saying this just to satisfy Jews or did he himself believe in them as God commanding these laws? Answer honestly…This same jeebus said not on tittle of law will be left unfulfilled….So it is clear that jeebus believed these are commands of god and are ethical and moral….

    So jeebus did NOT find anything wrong in OT where sexual slavery is allowed as well.

    5. jeebus himself believed he died for sins of others…HIs entire story is to get caught and get killed as a sacrificial animal as per bible. jeebus himself claims this in gospels all over…Do you find this claim logical?

    This is why he did not run away and let the Romans punish him. Jeebus himself believed he is like a sacrificial lamb to god to save the world. I need not quote from gospels. This is well known as per gospel stories.

    So do you find this claim logical? God sacrificing himself to himself to save his own creation from his own judgment…don’t you find this absurd?

    If you pick and chose what make sense to yourself, why you nee bible? jeebus’ story is without any real value if you do not believe this sacrifice story….it is some random guy dying randomly for nothing…

    You may think jeebus is extra-ordinary character….I find jeebus is a delusional idiot born to a adulterous woman who believed in nonsense and dabbled in egyptian black magic (Matthew 2:13-23, joseph runs to egypt with jeebus), just as moses dabbled in egyptian black magic to establish his religion…FYI the entire moses story stinks of “black magic” techniques (especially killing off children by moving shadow in a city or even a country, sacrificing lamb and applying blood in door is bali or sacrifice for the attacking entity to leave the members inside house alone) quite available in India even today….whether you believe it or not these things happens today in India..

    =====================================================================

    jeebus, like muhammad, moses etc. are all power hungry people. jeebus was quite sophisticated unlike moses or muhammad who traded with sex slaves, raped women etc. You claim jeebus is good, I know jeebus is evil character who roams around having become a preta.

    en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Preta

  26. why? says:

    My understanding of Ali Sina’s main arguments for NDE being evidence for existence of soul

    1. So called corroborated veridical NDEs:

    2. Shared near death experiences

    Both are NOT proofs which cannot have alternate explanations or purely material explanations.

    Point 1:

    Lets take the example of a so called corroborated veridical NDE:

    en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case
    =======================================Quote=======================
    Claimed NDE

    Reynolds says she was able to identify surgical instruments and hear conversations between operating room staff.

    Anesthesiologist Gerald Woerlee analyzed the case, and concluded that Reynolds ability to perceive events during her surgery was the result of “anesthesia awareness”.[5]

    According to the psychologist Chris French:

    Woerlee an anesthesiologist with many years of clinical experience, has considered this case in detail and remains unconvinced of the need for a paranormal explanation… [He] draws attention to the fact that Reynolds could only give a report of her experience some time after she recovered from the anesthetic as she was still intubated when she regained consciousness. This would provide some opportunity for her to associate and elaborate upon the sensations she had experienced during the operation with her existing knowledge and expectations. The fact that she described the small pneumatic saw used in the operation also does not impress Woerlee. As he points out, the saw sounds like and, to some extent, looks like the pneumatic drills used by dentists.
    ============================end quote================================

    a.) This is clearly a case of consciousness coming back AND NOT EVIDENCE OF SOUL.

    (b.) Every NDE experience talks about “soul” coming back after the white light or some angel or god etc. tell them to go back and they gain consciousness.

    THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE AS IT GIVES AN IDEA OF THE TIMING OF NDE EXPERIENCES. THIS POINT CLEARLY SHOWS THAT NDEs TAKE PLACE DURING RECOVERY PERIODS ONLY AND NOT IN ISOELECTRIC EEG PERIOD. READ THE ARTICLE BELOW FOR MORE UNDERSTANDING.

    (c) OBEs, seeing white light, 360 degree views etc. are also observed in SYNCOPE.

    Quote from the following article explains better.

    Occam’s Chainsaw: Neuroscientific Nails in the Coffin of Dualist Notions of the Near-death Experience (NDE)
    Dr. Jason J Braithwaite & Hayley Dewe MSc

    ==================================QUOTE===================================
    Not only do you not need to be near-death to have a NDE, but human brains can flat-line and become isoelectric periodical- ly, even when they are very much alive. This has been well known to neuroscience for decades. There are a number of examples of this, one noticeable one is the case of syncope. Syncope refers to a condition where patients typically experi- ence a paroxysmal loss of consciousness and postural tone. There are a number of different forms of syncope and some instances can be very similar to other seizure-based conditions making accurate delineation and diagnosis problematic (McKeon, Vaughan, & Delanty, 2006).

    For example, around 60% of syncope cases are known to be associated with striking aura and hallucinations (typically visual or auditory, of both simple and complex imagery: Lempert, 1994b; Stephenson, 2005). Indeed, syncope has been directly associated with both out-of-body experi- ences (Brandt, Kramme, Storm, & Pohlmann-Eden, 2009; Stephenson, 2005) and the NDE itself (Blackmore, 1993; Stephenson, 2005; see Lempert, Bauer & Schmidt, 1994a).

    The study by Lempert and colleagues is interesting for a num- ber of reasons. Firstly, although syncope was artificially induced on average for only approximately 22 seconds, most participants reported striking hallucinations and components of NDE-type hallucinations. Secondly, the vast majority of these experiences were described as being highly emotional and pleasant, with participants reporting that they were unwilling to return to the physical world. One participant was quoted as saying “I thought that if I had to die in this very moment I would willingly agree”. In addition, two participants reported the high similarity of syncopal experiences to previous post- traumatic NDEs that they had also experienced. Furthermore, the majority of components that make up the NDE were shown to occur in experimentally induced cases of syncope, to a sim- ilar frequency of that reported for spontaneous NDEs (Lempert, 1994a; see Table 1). Therefore, experiences in syncope were similar in thematic content, frequency and intensity to that reported by NDEers. This evidence is difficult to ignore and seems to go against the common claim from paranormalists that the experiences reported in the NDE are completely qual- itatively distinct (i.e., much more intense and convincing) from similar experiences reported in other contexts.

    The point at which consciousness is lost in the time peri- ods surrounding isoelectric patterns is not always clear. The slowing of the EEG waveforms is certainly not, on its own, always sufficient to totally abolish consciousness – though it may alter qualitative aspects of consciousness (Karp, Weissler & Heyman, 1961; Wieling et al., 2009). The period leading up to the syncopal attack is typically associated with prodromal symptoms (nausea/confusion/disorientation/light-headedness) – and not vivid hallucination. Therefore, these initial and some-what milder experiences are not to be confused with the actu- al hallucinations of syncope. Interestingly, as Wieling et al., (2009) note, in contrast to auras associated with some epilep- sies, syncopal hallucinations do not actually precede the attack (and hence do not occur in this initial period leading up to iso- electric EEG patterns), but are more associated with the stages of recovery in the EEG, and the individual regaining conscious- ness after an attack after slow waveforms start to re-emerge from the isoelectric state in the EEG (see also Stephenson, 2005).
    ===================================END QUOTE================================

    I THINK THE QUOTE IS ENOUGH TO SHOW SIMILARITY BETWEEN SYNCOPE EXPERIENCES AND NDE, ESPECIALLY BY ON EOF THE PARTICIPANTS ITSELF. I QUOTE AGAIN FROM ABOVE ARTICLE.

    “One participant was quoted as saying “I thought that if I had to die in this very moment I would willingly agree”. In addition, two participants reported the high similarity of syncopal experiences to previous post- traumatic NDEs that they had also experienced.”

    POINTS TO BE CONSIDERED:

    1. SYNCOPE HALLUCINATIONS GIVE INSIGHT REGARDING NDE HALLUCINATIONS. SEEING WHITE LIGHT ETC..

    2. NDE IS ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH RECOVERY PERIOD (COMING BACK INTO THE BODY) JUST LIKE SYNCOPE. PERCEPTIONS OF TIME HERE ARE NOT RELIABLE.

    3. SO CALLED CORROBORATED NDES ARE ANECDOTAL. CLEARLY ORDINARY EXPLANATION ARE POSSIBLE FOR EACH CASE.

    4. WHAT EFFORT DID YOU PUT TO FIND WHICH PART OF THIS VERIDICAL CORROBORATED EXPERIENCE MAY BE MERE HALLUCINATION AND WHICH PART IS REAL.

    FOR EXAMPLE, PAM’S HEARING SOME CONVERSATION MAY BE REAL, BUT HER BRAIN MAY HAVE HAD HALLUCINATIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY/IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS THAT IT IS SEEING THE DOCTORS, NURSES, INSTRUMENTS ETC. SUCH A STATE IS POSSIBLE AND DOES HAPPEN.

    en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Hypnagogia
    ==========================quote============================

    Hypnagogia is the experience of the transitional state from wakefulness to sleep: the hypnagogic state of consciousness, during the onset of sleep. In opposition, hypnopompia denotes the onset of wakefulness. The related words from the Greek are agōgos “leading”, “inducing”, pompe “act of sending”, and hypnos “sleep”.

    Mental phenomena that occur during this “threshold consciousness” phase include lucid thought, lucid dreaming, hallucinations, and sleep paralysis.

    Hypnagogic phenomena may be interpreted as visions, prophecies, premonitions, apparitions and inspiration (artistic or divine), depending on the experiencers’ beliefs and those of their culture.
    ==========================end quote================================

    So EXPERIENCES ABOUT JEEBUS AND OTHER ENTITIES may have been mere dreams. Although the NDE victim might have heard real conversations in Hypnagogic state, he/she may have gone completely into a dream state right after this event and seen images of jeebus in dreams. So NDE does NOT prove anything. So UNLESS one comes up with REAL OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF OOTHER EXPLANATIONS, NDE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR AFTER LIFE OR SOUL.

    Observe that you have NOT addressed properly how and why people of different ethnic/religious groups have NDEs confirming their beliefs? How every contradicting belief can be correct?

    For muslims you claimed satan is misguiding. What about Buddhist or Hindu Ndes confirming their beliefs? Is that satan as well? Too many assumptions from your side. The more logical inference is all NDEs are mere dreams. People get dreams conforming their sub-conscious belief system. You can think you are an atheist consciously, however subconsciously yoy may fear hell and punishment for rejecting jeebus. Obviously you will experience such dreams as hell.

    Spiritual reality, if real cannot be multicultural. It has to be one reality only. Contradicting truths cannot co-exist in spiritual reality. Hence NDEs are dreams just like syncope experiences.

    Unless truly objective evidence comes up, not subjective experiences, one cannot fully trust mere anecdotal evidences. You cannot ignore SYNCOPAL evidence as well, which clearly shows that NDEs are hallucinations like SYNCOPAL hallucinations. Both have similarity like OBEs, seeing white light etc.

    POINT 2: SHARED NDEs…

    Lets take a hypothetical case of two or a group of people having similar dreams. You may ask if this is possible. Well take a look at the following links.

    www(dot)theepochtimes(dot)com/n3/360184-3-astounding-stories-of-people-sharing-the-same-dream/

    1. Dan Pearce asked followers on his Facebook page “Single Dad Laughing” to recount the creepiest things their children have said. One response read as follows: 
    “One night my daughter, who was then 5, got into bed with me. After both of us going back to sleep, I had a terrible nightmare where I was a murderer. I woke up in the morning and was thinking about my dream when my daughter woke up and looked at me and said, ‘Mummy I had a dream that you were killing people.’”

    www(dot)amazon(dot)com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0972910328/woroflucdre-20

    It talks about several anecdotal evidences like NDEs. I myself have had such a dream in a new house we moved in with my dear ones. When I asked others in my family if they had such a dream, they confirmed the same. I cannot explain how this works? This is just my/our experience.

    Now does this prove that souls exist? Obviously NOT. Clearly they are mere dreams…You will laugh at me if I claim this is evidence for souls.

    Now we have seen that NDEs are also similar to syncopal hallucinations or dreams. The very fact that a person in shared NDE is alive and normal and does experience NDEs of others, shows that somehow the person entered a shared dream state and may have experienced what dream state the now dead/alive NDE victim might have experienced.

    SO SHARED NDE IS DEFINITELY NOT EVIDENCE FOR EXISTENCE OF SOULS JUST AS SHARED DREAMS ARE NO EVIDENCE FOR EXISTENCE OF SOULS.

    EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. THIS IS WHAT IS REQUIRED HERE. A TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT CAN HAVE NO OTHER EXPLANATION.

  27. Ra says:

    Hi Ali,
    I agree with you 100%, my friend, and I like the Bible. There is no comparison whatsoever between it and the Quran. Sometimes, my comments are written in a satirical mode. But I still don’t like Yahweh. He power abused his position as God to give that barbaric order of circumcision. Joseph and Mary should have disobeyed that crazy order for the sake of Jesus. And Jesus Himself should have abolished that bloody practice. I am glad that Christian revolutionaries dethroned Yahweh, otherwise I would have lost my precious foreskin.

  28. Ali Sina says:

    @Ra

    There are many shortfalls in the Bible and God does not get angry at you to point them out. The Bible is written by humans and humans are fallible. Take what makes sense from that book and leave the rest. God gave us a brain to use it. He does not want us to believe blindly in anything. Unlike the Quran that is a book to take as is or to leave it completely, the Bible is a Gold mine. Mine the gold and ignore the dirt.

  29. Ra says:

    I have found some shortfalls in the Bible but I am not going to reveal them because Yahweh could get angry and take revenge at me.

  30. Ra says:

    NDE is a false start to eternity. Jesus says to the NDEr: “Go back to Earth and try again later…..Hurry up, your body is waiting for you”.

  31. Ali Sina says:

    @Ajay

    When we talk about Jesus we have to understand what we mean. Jesus of Nazareth was an ordinary man made of flesh and bones. He depended on air, water and food just like us and felt and suffered the way we do. He was conceived the way you and I were conceived and was born a natural birth. I know Christians have a different understanding and Bible says quite something else. I am talking about my understanding not what the Bible says or what Christians believe.

    However, other than a body we also have a spirit. This spirit is eternal and is part of God. When we are conceived our spirit occupies our fetus and stays with us until we take our last breath. Then it returns back to God (assuming it is worthy of entering His presence).

    Jesus also had a spirit that came from God and returned to Him. The only difference between Jesus and us is the size of our consciousness. The spirit of Jesus is a lot bigger than ours, so much that he is the same as God.

    You say why Jesus did not come to India. How do you know he did not? How do you know that Krishna is not another manifestation of Jesus? Every divine being has a part of God in it. In fact Jesus is in you too. I have found him in me.

    We are only familiar of the material world. The laws governing the spiritual world are very different. In spirit you can be in multiple places and in many times while maintain your oneness. This is not reserved to God or to Jesus but to every soul. And also the distinction between us is illusory. We are all part of one reality. All of us are part of God and one in the essence. Everywhere there is love there is Jesus.

    He is not limited to this planet, and neither are we. Jesus has been in other planets but of course with a very different body and in different circumstances. Jesus is everywhere. If you are in trouble, just think of him and he will be there right where you are. Please watch this very moving testimony of a Muslim woman.

  32. Ajay says:

    @Ali Sina

    What are reasons according to you God sent you in a Muslim family followers of pedophile, and rapist Muhammad instead of a Christian family who could be noble, intellectual, philanthropist, follower of Jesus. It was your fortune to come out from the clutches of Muhammad / Islam & learn about jesus otherwise all do not get such chance and remain in ignorance in all their life.

  33. Ajay says:

    @Ali Sina

    I do not know much about Jesus. I just know he was some supreme human being or God for Christians whatever they called. You are talking of NDE. Many Indian sages like Patajali who had direct experience of Diving being as it is believed and writes Yog Darshan (Science of Union with God) in which he mentioned how they reached the divine being through Yoga never talked in the science of yoga about Jesus. It is very new things, people of this age seeing Jesus in their NDE.

    If jesus was eternally supreme soul he was partial to millions of people like me who had no idea of him. He did not choose my motherland to incarnate why? He did not do anything to protect his massage being a supreme soul who had divine powers also.

  34. Ra says:

    @Ali,
    The first video is interesting, but the second video is cruel and hard to watch. It is obvious that the man is on the brink and screaming for psychological help. Look at his shirt and curtain behind him.

  35. Ali Sina says:

    @Why

    “Who said they accurately report what others say and do in other rooms? What evidence do you have other than anecdotal claims published in some websites? ”

    The people who did not die confirm that. They include the doctors, the nurses, the family members! There are hundreds of such documented cases. Actually not only the other people confirm what the patient claims to have seen and heard they sometimes share the NDE with the dying patient. Dr. Raymond Moody has a book of hundreds of cases where healthy people who were close to the patient reported having shared the NDE of the dying person. This is one such case.
    https://youtu.be/2HTdyDCuY90
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HTdyDCuY90

    I have explained this subject clearly and left no room for doubt for any serious person. I can see you are not a serious person but a confused human being not interested to learn. I am going to ignore your comments from now on.

    I can see you are an arrogant disrespectful person. I don’t care whether you believe in Jesus or not. I did not believe in him either. But I had enough integrity not to be disrespectful to a man whom I thought was just a good man. You lack that integrity. Assume he was not the Messiah. Did he do anything evil to deserve scorn? He gave people some very good teachings and gave his life for that. But you are so filled with hatred of this good man that you can’t even say his name. Why you can’t say Jesus? Because your entire being is filled with hatred of everything that is good.

    I did not believe in Jesus but I never disrespected him. I saw him as a good man, or even as a myth, He was too good to be true, I thought. But you are filled with hate and insults. That is the difference between you and I. I was saved finally thanks to my honesty and integrity and you will never be because you lack these qualities.

    At lease learn the name of Jesus and pronounce it correctly. Who knows! It can save you from hell just as it did this guy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_3H9O4LSo

  36. Ali Sina says:

    @mummum,
    The claim that Jesus wants Christians to believe in a mass murderer, pedophile is contrary to reason. Islam is antithetical to anything Jesus taught. This stupid woman started dabbling in interfaith practices and recited the Islamic verses. She opened herself to demonic forces.

    God gave us reason to distinguish right from wrong and truth from falsehood. Jesus said you will recognize false prophet by their fruits, not through a dream of apparitions. These are not valid standards. We have to evaluate the life and the teaching of people claiming to bring a message from God rationally. Did Muhammad lived an exemplary life? If you do what he did you will end up in jail or even put on an electric chair. Are his teachings good? He thought people to hate and to kill one another. So we know for a fact his fruits were poisonous.

    On the other hand countless Muslims are saved by Jesus and their lives is transformed. This woman is mislead by Satan and will go to hell. There is no excuse for her. First she engaged in interfaith practices and then she ignored what the words of Jesus who said you will know them by their fruits.

  37. Ali Sina says:

    ” is there independent corroboration for the claims that NDE people having accurately observed conversations and/or actions? ”

    yes there is and that is what I keep repeating. I gave a couple of examples in this thread and a dozen here http://alisina.org/?p=3869 There is no explanation for any o these cases other than accepting that NDE is objective and the experience happens outside the mind of the experience. They are confirmed by others. There are hundreds of such cases.

  38. munmun says:

    Mr Sina, can’t believe you wrote this post – ‘this woman has been misled by satan’ This can be said for all NDE experiences. And they are just videos. You haven’t met concerned people personally.

  39. why? says:

    Phoenix,

    WHERE HAVE I EMOTIONALLY RESPONDED? An example of childish and frankly the lowest form of juvenile argumentation and emotional garbage is the following….

    @AliSina Says
    =======================================
    This woman has been mislead by Satan. Note that she says she participated in “interfaith” meetings and practiced Islamic prayers.
    ======================================

    I suggest you abandon your juvenile emotional ad-hominem emotional garbage attacks against me and start addressing the issues with logic.

  40. Phoenix says:

    why?

    I was going to respond to you point by point but your posts are too childish and frankly the lowest form of juvenile argumentation. Your modus operandi is to rile up your opponents with any ol’ excuse that you try to pass off as logic. Any reader can see your response is not a rational rebuttal but merely emotional garbage.

    I suggest Ali Sina ban you temporarily until you grow up because you are a complete waste of computer cycles.

  41. Ron says:

    @Ali,

    There is essential differences between humans and animals. Man is triune in creation i.e. Man is a spirit, having a soul and possessing a body. Man has a God given free will. When we say that we are made in the image of God then it is this spirit which is part of us which qualifies that statement.
    Animals are not triune as they do not have a spirit but they do have a soul and a body and have no free will.

  42. why? says:

    Phoenix says:
    ==============================================
    No! Sign of electric activity in the brain does NOT necessarily imply consciousness, which is the actual issue at stake.
    ==============================================

    No….the key point is //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//….

    The key point is “consistent with cognitive activities” even for rats……..This is what matters here….

    You did NOT address this key point at all…

    Phoenix says:
    ==============================================
    Except that you do not need instruments, never mind “sensitive” instruments, in order to detect an inactive brain.

    CLINICAL CRITERIA FOR BRAIN DEATH
    ===============================================

    Dumbest argument I have ever heard…..

    en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Clinical_death#Clinical_death_and_the_determination_of_death

    Death was historically believed to be an event that coincided with the onset of clinical death. It is now understood that death is a series of physical events, not a single one, and determination of permanent death is dependent on other factors beyond simple cessation of breathing and heartbeat.

    Clinical death that occurs unexpectedly is treated as a medical emergency.

    This means that permanent death occurs after clinical death and brain cells may be still functioning.

    Phoenix says:
    ==============================================
    This is a red herring and intellectual cowardice. You made positive claims regarding your beliefs, when asked for evidence you then resorted to a false comparison
    ==============================================

    err…let me recall you…you claimed “There is simply zero emprical evidence refuting NDEs in that study.”…

    If this is not similar to the claim “you did not disprove the existence of a god” then what is?

    I replied that you have NOT shown any evidence that NDEs prove existence of spiritual world and that NDEs are activities of a dying brain and further quoted //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//….

    It is you who has made the false comparison here. I did NOT make claims of my belief….The scientific article clearly says //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//….pointing to plausible explanation for NDEs and that brain is NOT permanently dead yet…and so NDEs are NOT evidence for spiritual world.

    Phoenix says:
    ==============================================
    You claimed a spirit must materialize before it can be known.
    ==============================================

    Show me where? You are putting words into my mouth, the words which I never said…Here is what I said again..

    “EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE”

    Where did I say spirit must materialize? Read again and stop lying and putting words into my mouth..

    I said “EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD”……It means the EVIDENCE (NOT SPIRIT ITSELF) MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD….IN OTHER WORDS, EVIDENCE SHOULD BE OBSERVABLE BY ONE AND ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY IS WHAT I MEANT…NOT AS NDEs or DREAMS of some person that cannot be verified.

    DO NOT REPEAT THIS CRAP AGAIN…

    Phoenix says:
    ==============================================
    This clip poses a serious dilemma for muslims. If this person’s testimony is true then Jesus’ message would implicate him as the last messenger of Islam, not Muhammad.
    ==============================================

    Why exactly is jeebus the last messenger here? Did jeebus proclaim this coming alive into this world like muhammad proclaimed when he was alive? NO…then how exactly he becomes last prophet? Silly argument…

    Even Muhammad met many prophets in heaven as per stories similar to NDE experiences. Does that make those profiteers last prophets?

    Second, I have already provided so many mooslime NDEs where angels, allah and even muhammad have shown them heaven. How do you conveniently reject it? If christian nde experiences are true, then so is muslim nde experience…Why do you christian bigots like Ali Sina and yourself call it fake and/or satanic deception?

    Christian bigots like yourselves will accept what is convenient to you and make up evidences, while denying similar kind of experiences from other religions…It is atypical christian hypocrisy and bigotry….

    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH…Let the readers see what you guys are….christian bigots…

  43. Ra says:

    @Ali,
    Please do not mix me up with that filthy Hindu.

  44. Ra says:

    @Ali,
    You made a mistake.Your last 2 comments to me were really meant to ‘why?’

  45. why? says:

    @AliSina
    =======================================
    This woman has been mislead by Satan. Note that she says she participated in “interfaith” meetings and practiced Islamic prayers.
    ======================================

    Bwahahahahaha…First of all “Ra” is NOT me….Please do NOT insult me further…..I disagree on this fellow at various levels, including his blabber about muhammad in heaven or allah being non-judgmental…

    You are more and more exposing yourself as a christian bigot Ali Sina rather than an objective observer you portray yourself to be. You have shot yourself in your legs.

    If you say satan can mislead one person in NDE, what makes you so sure that satan DID NOT mislead all others with jeebus experience or the ones where there was NO jeebus experience also. I say all NDE experiences are satanic, especially the ones that includes the stinking corpse mamzer man-god jeebus of yours…Satan creates electrical pulses in brains simulating dreams that appear like real events of all NDE experiencers 🙂

    @AliSina
    =======================================
    Of course! But there is none and hence the case is closed.
    =======================================

    says you who believes that “Satan misleads people in NDEs”…..where is evidence for that?

    Again all the evidence you have brought are anecdotal evidences. These may be merely hallucinatory.

    Please read it.

    @AliSina
    =======================================
    So you think a dead brain becomes hypersensitive? I will believe that when the dead body becomes a superman. And you expect people read this kind of reasoning and not laugh? Okay I control myself. How can a hyper sensitive dead brain accurately report what people in other rooms say and do?
    =========================================

    oh yeah Ali Sina…but satan misleading NDEs makes more sense…congrats now you have doctoral degree in christian bigotry…

    Who said brain is dead? Recall experiment on rats show that brain activity is there even after brain is allegedly dead (Flatlime ecgs)….Again I already quoted the reason for ecg flatlining….

    phenomena(dot)nationalgeographic(dot)com/2013/08/12/in-dying-brains-signs-of-heightened-consciousness/

    Parnia also notes that other EEG studies of humans during cardiac arrest haven’t found similar patterns, suggesting that these results might be due to some quirk of the experiment. But Borjigin counters that other groups have mostly placed electrodes on their patients’ scalps, with bone, flesh and skin standing between them and the underlying neurons. Her team, however, surgically implanted their electrodes right on top of the rats’ brains, making them more sensitive to subtle signals.

    You say that brain cannot become hypersensitive and my explanation is impossible. So lets say its impossible.

    Who said they accurately report what others say and do in other rooms? What evidence do you have other than anecdotal claims published in some websites?

    @AliSina
    =======================================
    Please look at yourself. You have become the very personification of bigotry, fanaticism and blind faith. Read what you wrote. For the life of me I can’t understand how a person can say such absurdity with straight face.
    ==========================================

    I think I am in Ali Sina’s lala land…..hmmm…let me quote an example of “personification of bigotry, fanaticism and blind faith”….

    @AliSina says: in reply to “Jesus told me to convert to Islam. (SPECIAL FOR RON)”

    “This woman has been mislead by Satan. Note that she says she participated in “interfaith” meetings and practiced Islamic prayers.”

    @AliSina
    =======================================
    Really? Is this your level of scientific reasoning?
    ========================================

    How is your explanation any more scientific? If you can claim NDE is evidence for after life, somebody else can claim it is evidence for ESP….It proves nothing..

    Second, is there independent corroboration for the claims that NDE people having accurately observed conversations and/or actions?

    The only evidence that is brought forward is that these are story telling an nothing more, much like your gospels in NT. People do NOT remember what conversation they had just in detail 1 hour back. These do NOT constitute evidence.

  46. Phoenix says:

    Jesus told me to convert to Islam. (SPECIAL FOR RON)//

    This clip poses a serious dilemma for muslims. If this person’s testimony is true then Jesus’ message would implicate him as the last messenger of Islam, not Muhammad. No muslim can take this clip seriously, unless they use it to fool those ignorant of Islam. Muslims are forced to discard this person’s testimony as fraudulent. Islam is, what is written in the Quran and hadith, period.

  47. Phoenix says:

    why?

    I said evidence of spiritual world must materialize in this world in some way. Second, you are assuming that “spirit” CANNOT appear inside (in some form) material world. Then how did you suggest NDE as evidence?
    I two categories P and Q are so mutually exclusive from each other, then there is no way to know P from Q. The fact is NDEs or subjectve experiences are considered shows that even you do NOT consider P and Q are absolutely mutually exclusive.
    NDEs are subjective experiences, NOT objective as in people surrounding NDE experiencers cannot observe it. Evidence must include some of sort of objective observations.//

    No one said that either categories cannot be known. Of course the non-physical can be known. My beef is with the type of evidence that is required for such an acquisition. You claimed a spirit must materialize before it can be known. This is a fallacy as I pointed out. Either you provide me with material evidence for your assertions or admit you fail.

  48. Phoenix says:

    @why?
    //Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article//

    No! Sign of electric activity in the brain does NOT necessarily imply consciousness, which is the actual issue at stake. When I’m asleep there is electric activity in my brain that causes proteins and ions to be transported across membranes, blood flow is being circulated,tissue growth and repairs are taking place, hormone growth and release are occurring,etc. despite being unconscious.
    Yes, there could have been electric activity in the rats brain but how do you prove they were conscious and possibly having NDEs?
    ==========
    //That is what you say. There could be electrical activity in brain but the instruments do NOT measure it as they are NOT sensitive enough.//

    Except that you do not need instruments, never mind “sensitive” instruments, in order to detect an inactive brain. According to the Journal of American Medical Association, there is a 4 step clinical criteria that suffice, without the use of EEG’s or fMRI’s.
    CLINICAL CRITERIA FOR BRAIN DEATH
    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=181900#CLINICALCRITERIAFORBRAINDEATH
    – No response to any stimulus—no movement, withdrawal, grimace, or blinking

    -No breathing efforts when taken off the ventilator (the apnea test)

    – Pupils dilated and not responsive to light

    -No gag reflex, no corneal reflex (blinking when the surface of the eye is touched), and absence of other specific reflexes
    ===
    there is zero evidence for NDEs being evidence for spiritual world. You are assuming as though NDEs are evidence for something and asking one to disprove it. This is like asking somebody to disprove absence of existence of God. Twisted backward logic…Skeptics rightly say that there is conventional explanation for NDEs and therefore NDE is NOT an evidence for existence of souls//

    This is a red herring and intellectual cowardice. You made positive claims regarding your beliefs, when asked for evidence you then resorted to a false comparison “This is like asking somebody to disprove absence of existence of God”. You were not asked to prove a negative. You were asked for evidence for your assertions. Either you provide them or your position is merely one of rejectionism.

  49. Ali Sina says:

    @ Ron

    Over one million Iranians have accepted Jesus in these years. Once the country Becomes free of evil regime and their demonic faith, Iran will become a Christian nation in a very short time

  50. Ali Sina says:

    “Jesus told me to convert to Islam. (SPECIAL FOR RON)”

    This woman has been mislead by Satan. Note that she says she participated in “interfaith” meetings and practiced Islamic prayers. On the other words she opened the door for demons to enter in her life. That is why Christians who practice interfaith gathering s with Muslims are exposing themselves to Satanic influences.

  51. Ali Sina says:

    @Ajay
    There is no difference between animals and humans. The difference is in the shape that the soul takes when occupying the body. The other difference is in size.

    Think of the soul as the software and the body as the hardware. The software is the same. Bigger software can perform bigger tasks. Also the bigger is the software the bigger must be the computer. Humans are the most advanced biological computer and hence can run the most advanced software. Other than size and shape there is no difference between humans and animals.

    Why animals are created? For the same reason that humans are created! We all separate from God and come to this world to experience it. This experience is for not only our benefit but also for God’s benefit. God is connected to all creatures through thoughts. God feels all your feelings and hears all your thoughts. Since he is aware of all thoughts He experiences what every creature in the universe experiences. Basically, He is living our lives.

    This sounds like God is a farmer who “eats” the thoughts and feelings of his creation. But the fact is that God and His creation are not separate. We come from God and then go back and merge with Him. We then share our worldly experience with all other souls. In this world we look as we are separate and distinct from each other. This separation vanishes in the other world. We all merge together while at the same time we maintain our individuality. This is very difficult to understand. But this theme is repeated in many NDE. People sometime find that they are more than one. You become several souls simultaneously. Everything in the other world is different. None of the physical laws that apply in the material world work there.

    It seems that we are God. While at the same time God is distinct from us. A very poor example is to say we are images of God. But this is really not a perfect example because we are not images of God but fractals of Him. The whole exists in every piece in all its complexity and grandeur.

    “Jesus is eternal king of heaven? or he got enlightenment and then he became king of heaven.”

    From what I understand so far Jesus has always beem part of God. He was not a human who became enlightened.

    You must also realize that while our experience is limited to Earth, the universe is far greater and we have been and will be in many other planets. Actually since time in the spiritual world does not exist it makes no sense to talk about past and future. We are already in many other planets. We are in the past and in the future. All this is happening simultaneously. If you are in the other world you can watch the formation of the Earth, see Dinosaurs and the future all at once. Jesus is also not limited to this planet. He has been and is living in many other planets while never leaving the heaven.

    If you think all this is strange, it is. This world is only a simulation game. We come here to experience strange things like time and space, like hate and love, like sadness and joy, like victory and loss. We came here to experience life. Like breading, eating, bring born and growing old. Like falling in love, having sex, having children, friends, and family. Like competing, struggling, winning and losing. We don’t come to learn things here. We know everything already. We come here to experience things. And yes, experience even injustice, suffering and pain. All this is necessary.

  52. Ali Sina says:

    @Ra

    “ A person whose eyes, ears are allegedly plugged and hearing others conversations. This can be heightened activity of brain, somehow causing hypersensitive sense organs. Besides since it is the brain that is actually causing perception of all kinds”

    I hope you read what you wrote and realize how silly it sounds. So you think a dead brain becomes hypersensitive? I will believe that when the dead body becomes a superman. And you expect people read this kind of reasoning and not laugh? Okay I control myself. How can a hyper sensitive dead brain accurately report what people in other rooms say and do?

    Please look at yourself. You have become the very personification of bigotry, fanaticism and blind faith. Read what you wrote. For the life of me I can’t understand how a person can say such absurdity with straight face.

    “there can be certain unknown phenomenon of neurons in brain that can even by-pass sense organs and directly perceive the world around. Telepathy or other extra-sensory perceptions of world can be explained in this way.”

    Really? Is this your level of scientific reasoning?

  53. Ali Sina says:

    @Ra
    When one person’s experience is confirmed by others then it cannot be called subjective. If a person sees what people do and say in other places and it is confirmed then you cannot call that experience subjective. I don’t think I need to explain the meaning of subjective. You are a smart person and can read it on your own.

    “There can be alternate explanations for such claims. As long as alternate explanations exist, NDEs do NOT prove anything.:

    Of course! But there is none and hence the case is closed.

  54. Ra says:

    NDE is a false start to the afterlife.

  55. why? says:

    Jesus told me to convert to Islam. (SPECIAL FOR RON)

  56. why? says:

    Phoenix says:
    ================================================
    There is simply zero emprical evidence refuting NDEs in that study. Skeptics took this conventional explanation and just ran with it until it took a life of its own.
    ================================================
    This is funny…First nobody refuted NDEs….it called “Near death experiences” and NOT “after death experiences” for a reason…
    there is zero evidence for NDEs being evidence for spiritual world. You are assuming as though NDEs are evidence for something and asking one to disprove it. This is like asking somebody to disprove existence of God. Twisted backward logic…Skeptics rightly say that there is conventional explanation for NDEs and therefore NDE is NOT an evidence for existence of souls,,,,

    Phoenix says:
    ================================================
    Classic ontological fallacy, known as a Category Error. If a spirit has to materialize in order to prove its existence then it has undermined its own nature. Spirit and material are two completely different ontological categories.
    ================================================

    “EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE”

    May be I should rephrase it. Before that where have I said anything about “spirit” should materialize in this world.

    I said evidence of spiritual world must materialize in this world in some way. Second, you are assuming that “spirit” CANNOT appear inside (in some form) material world. Then how did you suggest NDE as evidence?

    I two categories P and Q are so mutually exclusive from each other, then there is no way to know P from Q. The fact is NDEs or subjectve experiences are considered shows that even you do NOT consider P and Q are absolutely mutually exclusive.

    NDEs are subjective experiences, NOT objective as in people surrounding NDE experiencers cannot observe it. Evidence must include some of sort of objective observations.

  57. why? says:

    Phoenix says:
    ================================================
    First, Law of Parsimony is not a law of physics or law of logic, it is a rule of thumb about which Einsten said, ” A theory should be as simple as neccessary and not simpler”.
    ================================================

    Agreed…however here it is unnecessary to postulate a god(s), spiritual world etc. which is NOT seen normally…law of parsimony minimizes assuming unnecessary entities.

    Phoenix says:
    ================================================
    Second, a simpler hypothesis does not automatically make it the correct one, unless it takes into account all of the data without postulating unecessary entities. The study published in Nature only takes into account what can be called “remnants of electrical activity”. To extrapolate any other data beyond this simple fact is pure conjecture.
    ==================================================

    Sign of electrical activity in brain are consistent with cognitive activities….quote from article….

    “Nevertheless, as the authors note, this research demonstrates a surge in brain activity after death that is consistent with active cognitive processing. This suggests that a neural explanation for these experiences is at least plausible. ”

    This is compelling evidence that NDEs are simple brain activity.

    Phoenix says:
    ================================================
    Third, there are studies that report patients with flatline EEGs having NDEs. ….Most, if not all of these accounts occured well after the “30 second” mark.
    ================================================

    That is what you say. There could be electrical activity in brain but the instruments do NOT measure it as they are NOT sensitive enough.

    phenomena(dot)nationalgeographic(dot)com/2013/08/12/in-dying-brains-signs-of-heightened-consciousness/

    Parnia also notes that other EEG studies of humans during cardiac arrest haven’t found similar patterns, suggesting that these results might be due to some quirk of the experiment. But Borjigin counters that other groups have mostly placed electrodes on their patients’ scalps, with bone, flesh and skin standing between them and the underlying neurons. Her team, however, surgically implanted their electrodes right on top of the rats’ brains, making them more sensitive to subtle signals.

    Phoenix says:
    ================================================
    There is simply zero emprical evidence refuting NDEs in that study. Skeptics took this conventional explanation and just ran with it until it took a life of its own.
    ================================================

    This is funny…First nobody refuted NDEs….it called “Near death experiences” and NOT “after death experiences” for a reason…

    there is zero evidence for NDEs being evidence for spiritual world. You are assuming as though NDEs are evidence for something and asking one to disprove it. This is like asking somebody to disprove absence of existence of God. Twisted backward logic…Skeptics rightly say that there is conventional explanation for NDEs and therefore NDE is NOT an evidence for existence of souls,,,,

  58. Ron says:

    Muslim Woman Gives Jesus One Week To Prove Himself Before Ending Her Life. Then This Happens!…

  59. Ra says:

    @Ali,
    Obama is not homosexual. He is a loving husband and a loving father. And the country is in a much better shape now than 7 years ago. Also, it was very gracious of him to take his family with him to greet the pope at the airport this past summer.

  60. Phoenix says:

    Let’s look at why?’s logic:

    “EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE”

    Classic ontological fallacy, known as a Category Error. If a spirit has to materialize in order to prove its existence then it has undermined its own nature. Spirit and material are two completely different ontological categories.
    Put another way: To search for category P inside category Q ,while asserting both categories to have different characteristics and then insisting to find P only inside Q is irrational and absurd.

    Perhaps you can give an example of the spiritual world materializing within your frame of logic.

  61. Phoenix says:

    One last thing regarding the rat study in Nature. It does not report any conclusive results.

    Here’s an excerpt:

    ***Research in animals can only ever *hint* at human experience, including near-death experiences***

    AND

    “This suggests that a neural explanation for these experiences is at least plausible. They have identified the right kind of brain activity for a neural explanation of near-death experiences, ***yet it remains to be verified whether these signatures do actually relate directly to the subjective experience***.

    There is simply zero emprical evidence refuting NDEs in that study. Skeptics took this conventional explanation and just ran with it until it took a life of its own.

  62. Phoenix says:

    why?
    //The scientific experiment on rats published in the journal Nature reveals the basis of NDE experiences being one last ditch effort by neurons in brain. NDE is mere neural activity. BY LAW OF PARSIMONY THIS APPEARS TO BE THE SIMPLE TRUTH REGARDING NDEs//

    First, Law of Parsimony is not a law of physics or law of logic, it is a rule of thumb about which Einsten said, ” A theory should be as simple as neccessary and not simpler”.
    Second, a simpler hypothesis does not automatically make it the correct one, unless it takes into account all of the data without postulating unecessary entities. The study published in Nature only takes into account what can be called “remnants of electrical activity”. To extrapolate any other data beyond this simple fact is pure conjecture.
    Third, there are studies that report patients with flatline EEGs having NDEs. There are also shared-NDEs and of course accounts of veridical perception which has been corroborated. Most, if not all of these accounts occured well after the “30 second” mark.

  63. Ra says:

    Hi Ajay,
    Maybe Allah doesn’t judge so that He won’t be judged and abolished the Day of Judgment.

  64. Ajay says:

    @Ra

    Before day of judgment how muhammad reached in heaven. Was muhammad liar who said on the day of judgment fate of all souls would be decided according to their faith. Only muhammad has exclusive right to meet with Allah how can your usman Ali and Zeshan ali had experience of divinity. They are liar and against their own muhammad and Quran.

  65. Ra says:

    I have just watched Usman Ali’s and Zeshan Ali’s testaments about their NDEs. These gentlemen seem to be truthful. Maybe Muhammed is in heaven after all.

  66. Ajay says:

    @Ali Sina

    What is your thought about animals, reptiles, birds, insects? for which purpose they come in this world? If one does not learn to love, to forgiveness, how is his/her afterlife? Jesus is eternal king of heaven? or he got enlightenment and then he became king of heaven.

  67. why? says:

    www(dot)scientificamerican(dot)com/article/why-near-death-experience-isnt-proof-heaven/

    Why a Near-Death Experience Isn’t Proof of Heaven

    Did a neurosurgeon go to heaven? By Michael Shermer on April 1, 2013

    In any case, there is a reason they are called near-death experiences: the people who have them are not actually dead.

    Second, we now know of a number of factors that produce such fantastical hallucinations, which are masterfully explained by the great neurologist Oliver Sacks in his 2012 book Hallucinations (Knopf). For example, Swiss neuroscientist Olaf Blanke and his colleagues produced a “shadow person” in a patient by electrically stimulating her left temporoparietal junction. “When the woman was lying down,” Sacks reports, “a mild stimulation of this area gave her the impression that someone was behind her; a stronger stimulation allowed her to define the ‘someone’ as young but of indeterminate sex.”

    Sacks recalls his experience treating 80 deeply parkinsonian postencephalitic patients (as seen in the 1990 film Awakenings, which starred Robin Williams in a role based on Sacks), and notes, “I found that perhaps a third of them had experienced visual hallucinations for years before l-dopa was introduced—hallucinations of a predominantly benign and sociable sort.
    ================================================

    Parkinson’s patients will vouch with open eyes of seeing known persons engaged in conversations etc., when nobody else can see. They often mix real events and unreal events that are products of hallucinations. This does NOT mean that unreal events (like seeing heaven, jeebus, muhammad, angels etc.) become real.

    EVIDENCE OF SPIRITUAL WORLD MUST BE SHOWN IN THIS WORLD AND MUST MATERIALIZE IN THIS WORLD. ONLY THIS CONSTITUTES REAL EVIDENCE.

    AIN’T IT WEIRD THAT A POWERFUL god LIKE MAMZER man-god JEEBUS WHO SHOWS HEAVEN AND HELL IN NDEs CANNOT FIGURE OUT A WAY TO SHOW EVIDENCE HERE IN THIS WORLD. WHY ALL THIS UNNECESSARY CIRCUS?

  68. why? says:

    Ray said:
    =============================================
    lol “why?” The Daily Currant is a fake comedy news site.
    =============================================

    You are absolutely right and it is a mistake on my part. I agree I made a mistake. However my argument stays. This is NOT the only video I provided.

    NDEs are nothing more than weird dreams people have. HERE IS MORE EVIDENCE and weird ones also..

    www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=B4tsHQFmR2s

    Jesus told me to convert to Islam (TALK ABOUT CRAZY NDEs)

    www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=O1nke9Tqf54

    Back From Death ~ Story Of a Chinese ‘Millionaire’ Become Muslim (Chinese getting islamic NDEs now thats crazy one)

    ndevideos(dot)com/mufti-shamsuddoha/

    Mufti Shamsuddoha

    Muslim: Mufti Shamsuddoha was an agnostic or maybe even an athiest. Though he was born in a Hindu country he was not a Hindu at the time of his NDE. Later on he became a Sifi which is a branch of the Islam faith.
    ===================================================

    If you christians give preference to ur christian ndes, then mooslime ndes must also be right. Like your religions, ndes are also contradictory. HENCE LIKE YOUR RELIGIONS, NDEs ARE ALSO FAKE OR TWISTED IMAGINATION OF FOLLOWERS AND NOTHING MORE.

  69. Ray says:

    @why?

    lol “why?” The Daily Currant is a fake comedy news site. The story about the christian boy is completely fake, just made up to make fun of christians and what they believe in by making their own religion false and their enemy religion true. Check out the stories on the main page of the Daily Currant. It’s a comedy website.

  70. Ray says:

    @why?

    Oh i see where you’re going now. Personally I do still consider them spiritual experiences but tailored by outside entities. In their NDE they still uncover things they they should never have been able to know.

    So what is your personal objective proof that makes you a spiritual believer?

  71. Ray says:

    @why?
    “I am NOT an atheist is well known to you all. I do believe in spiritual world, but it is NOT because of NDEs.”

    You do believe in the spiritual world because you have some objective proof unlike what NDEs give? If you don’t mind me asking what is your objective proof?

    Is there some reason you two are arguing when Mr. Sina’s main goal seems to point out that a spiritual world exists and you already believe this? If you have even better proof than hundreds of stories of NDEs from people of different backgrounds then I’d really like to know because Mr. Sina has pointed out that this is at least compelling proof. Stronger proof will be even better.

  72. why? says:

    dailycurrant(dot)com/2014/05/05/christian-boy-dies-for-3-minutes-meets-allah-in-heaven/

    Christian Boy Dies For 3 Minutes, Meets Allah in Heaven
    May 05, 2014

    A young Christian boy who briefly died on a surgeon’s operating table this weekend says he met someone named Allah in heaven.

    Bobby Anderson, the son of a well-known Christian pastor in Atlanta, suffered internal injuries from an automobile accident and was technically dead for 3 minutes before being resuscitated. During that time the 12-year-old claims he visited the afterlife and spoke to several leading figures of the Islamic religion.

    “I didn’t see Jesus anywhere,” he told WGCL news after the ordeal. “There was someone named Allah. And someone named Mohammad. And there were 72 very beautiful women all around me.

    “But I didn’t see anyone in my family. Not even grandma and grandpa. Everyone there had darker skin. They weren’t like us at all.

    “I asked my father ‘Why wasn’t Jesus in heaven daddy?’ He couldn’t give me an answer. I’d never heard of Allah before this, but now I’m gonna read more about him. He seems pretty real to me.”

    Bobby Anderson’s story bears striking similarities to that of Colton Burpo, a pastor’s son who briefly died during surgery and later claimed to have met with Jesus in heaven.

    Coulton’s story was told in the popular book Heaven is For Real, which is now a major motion picture starring Greg Kinnear and Thomas Hayden Church.

    Although the Burpo’s family’s story had a happy and lucrative ending, the Anderson family has been torn apart by Bobby’s claims.

    However, Todd Anderson, Bobby’s father, says his son’s experience has not made him question his own deeply held Christian faith.

    “It’s kinda disturbing to me that he didn’t meet Jesus in heaven,” he told reporters, “but clearly my son is suffering from some sort of schizophrenia or something.

    “I mean seeing Jesus in heaven, that’s a miracle. No question. But seeing Allah in heaven? That’s crying out for a heavy dose of antipsychotic medication.”

    ===================================
    NOTE: DID U NOTICE CHRISTIAN HYPOCRISY HERE. THEY BELIEVE AND USE CHRISTIAN NDES BUT MOOSLIME NDES ARE SCHIZOPHRENIA…I SAY ALL NDES ARE SIMILAR TO SCHIZOPHRENIA OR PARKINSONS DISEASE…
    ====================================

  73. why? says:

    @ Ali Sina,

    1. The key point is that researchers have found brain activity in rats with cardiac arrests in experiments. This is clear indicator that brain activity does NOT cease even after cardiac arrest. This explains all the subjective experiences about mamzer man-god jeebus or say allah or say angels or even meeting with near and dear ones. Meeting unknown people in NDEs is similar to seeing unknown faces in dreams.

    2. Also consider this important point. I have provided you examples of muslim NDEs, where people meet Muhammad, the pedophile profiteer.

    ndevideos(dot)com/zeshan-ali-speaks-to-mohammad-pubh/

    Zeshan Ali (Speaks to Mohammad PBUH)
    MUSLIM: Zeshan Ali from Karachi Pakistan, testifies that when he died he was in the presence of the Prophet Mohammad (Pbuh). He asked questions and got some profound answers about the Islam believers afterlife.

    dailycurrant(dot)com/2014/05/05/christian-boy-dies-for-3-minutes-meets-allah-in-heaven/

    Christian Boy Dies For 3 Minutes, Meets Allah in Heaven

    “I didn’t see Jesus anywhere,” he told WGCL news after the ordeal. “There was someone named Allah. And someone named Mohammad. And there were 72 very beautiful women all around me.

    “But I didn’t see anyone in my family. Not even grandma and grandpa. Everyone there had darker skin. They weren’t like us at all.

    Your belief in mamzer man-god jeebus is based on other people’s NDEs. If that is so why would you reject this mooslime meeting Muhammad in NDE? Surely you do NOT think spiritual world is multicultural where a murderer is incharge? If this is NOT real then so is seeing mamzer man-god jeebus…The boy saw what he has read and it came out from subconscious part of his brain.

    Points 1 and 2 clearly prove that NDEs are merely brain activity before death. People see what they subconsciously believe in their dreams.

    Seeing mamzer man-god jeebus or muhammad or whatever are both cases of Schtzophrenia or the likes of parkinsons patients seeing or imagining non-existent events…….

  74. why? says:

    @Ali Sina,
    ===============================================================
    NDE is an objective phenomenon.

    There are hundreds of stories like this. This case is closed. The other world is real. Those who don’t want to accept it are willfully ignorant and bigots.
    =================================================

    NDEs are subjective experiences. Let me school the stupid mazer man-god jeebus worshiping fool (Phoenix) here as well.

    I am NOT an atheist is well known to you all. I do believe in spiritual world, but it is NOT because of NDEs.

    Objective experiences are seen and experienced by one and all. Example, if one person sees a phenomenon, then the person(s) who is (are) physically near him also sees (see) the same phenomenon.

    NDE is a subjective experience of just ONE person who undergoes this NDE. Hence NDE is subjective absolutely.

    I am aware of all such stories as you have come up with. There can be alternate explanations for such claims. As long as alternate explanations exist, NDEs do NOT prove anything.

    A person whose eyes, ears are allegedly plugged and hearing others conversations. This can be heightened activity of brain, somehow causing hypersensitive sense organs. Besides since it is the brain that is actually causing perception of all kinds, there can be certain unknown phenomenon of neurons in brain that can even by-pass sense organs and directly perceive the world around. Telepathy or other extra-sensory perceptions of world can be explained in this way.

    Now regarding some people identifying daughter of some woman, these can be a mixture of signals in brain. Sometimes we feel that we have seen some person and that he/she is very familiar to us while in reality we have NOT met that person at all or that some particular event is repeating (deja vu). These are instances where brain mixes up past events and creates new events or people in brain. This is how dreams work. In dreams we see new faces or sometimes familiar faces or both together. NDEs are similar in this case. It may happen that these faces can even exist in reality. Besides we do NOT know if some telepathic communication has occurred or NOT between two people. Such communication is possible. We often experience such things with close and dear ones, where without a person saying anything we come to know about the thoughts of the dear ones. We make phone calls to dear ones who are far away just when they also feel to make a phone call or some similar event. So subjective experiences like NDEs, telepathy etc. can have alternate explanations that is completely matter based and nothing spiritual about it.

  75. Ray says:

    “Take the examples of evil souls like the pedophile Khomeini, the mass murderer Khamanei, the homosexual liar and traitor Obama and countless other criminals.”

    President Obama?? I can only imagine you’re letting off steam by saying this. He may be deluded and weak but he doesn’t belong with the other two or these statements.

    And is homosexuality a bad thing to you? I think most westerners thought it correct when they allowed gay marriage in the US. Homosexuality and heterosexuality just seems like sexuality to me, gay or straight people fall in love with other people just the same.

  76. Ali Sina says:

    @Why

    NDE is an objective phenomenon. People who come back from death bring information from this world that they could not have if they did not actually go out of their body. They report seeing what the doctors and nurses did and said when they were unconscious and their eyes covered and ears plugged. They see everything from the vantage point of ceiling. They go through walls and meet their relatives in the waiting room and accurately report what they said and did. They sometimes gain psychic ability. While it the spirit form they sometimes can know the thoughts, fears and hopes of the people they meet.

    One woman who died met a young woman in the other world who passed her a message and told her this is for her mother. She came back having no knowledge of who the person she should deliver the message was. Not long after her experience she felt a strong urge to enter into a Church which she had never visited. White inside the Church and during the service she strongly felt that she should go to the garden. In the Garden she met a woman dressed in black. Without knowing her she approached her and started talking to her. She felt this was the woman to whom she had to deliver the message. She asked whether she had lost a daughter. The woman confirmed. She told her about her NDE and described the young woman she had met in the other word. The woman dressed in black pulled out a photo of her daughter and it was the same young woman this person had seen in heaven.

    The mother and daughter had become estranged and the daughter died in another state without they having the chance to mend their relationship and this tormented the mother. The daughter’s message was one of apology to her mother and the assurance that she is fine. While the woman with NDE described the person she had met in heaven even before seeing her picture and then recognized the picture, the mother recognized the message.

    There are hundreds of stories like this. This case is closed. The other world is real. Those who don’t want to accept it are willfully ignorant and bigots.

  77. Phoenix says:

    Ali Sina, please school this fool.

  78. why? says:

    Why people in NDE see the god(s) or messiahs or profiteers or whatever they subconsciously believe? A mooslime can believe in jeebus subconsciously or a Christian can believe in islam subconsciously. Spiritual world CANNOT OBVIOUSLY BE A MULTICULTURAL SOCIETY.

    ndevideos(dot)com/usman-ali/

    Usman Ali (Made a deal with Allah)

    ndevideos(dot)com/zeshan-ali-speaks-to-mohammad-pubh/

    Zeshan Ali (Speaks to Mohammad PBUH)
    MUSLIM: Zeshan Ali from Karachi Pakistan, testifies that when he died he was in the presence of the Prophet Mohammad (Pbuh). He asked questions and got some profound answers about the Islam believers afterlife.

    The scientific experiment on rats published in the journal Nature reveals the basis of NDE experiences being one last ditch effort by neurons in brain. NDE is mere neural activity. BY LAW OF PARSIMONY THIS APPEARS TO BE THE SIMPLE TRUTH REGARDING NDEs.

  79. why? says:

    Define reality Ali Sina? What characteristics would define reality for you?

    Let us say there is a matrix as you say and that the world we see as holographic projection. Who said hologram is “illusion”? Hologram has its reality, in that it exists as a dance of light. Is light NOT real?

    Similarly, are good or bad actions based on “illusion”? If this world is an illusion, why would human actions that are part of this illusory world be classified as good or bad? That is nonsense….Even in your own “illusory world view” there are good and bad actions and it results in experience of concrete fruits in the “real spiritual matrix”.

    Ali Says:
    ======================================
    All your victories and losses here are illusions.
    =======================================

    If that is so, then even the good/bad actions are illusions. Why should it lead to results in spiritual world?

    Ali Says:
    ======================================
    By worldly standards Jesus was a loser. He had no place to rest his head and was caught, beaten and crucified.
    =======================================

    This world is as real as spiritual world. Both Spirit and matter are reality and co-exist right here. If something is wrong in this world we see, it means something is wrong in the other world which we do not see. This is why jeebus was a loser in this world, for he is a loser in other world too.

    One who is strong in spiritual world, cannot and will NOT lose in material world. The vice-versa NEED NOT be true. The spiritually weak lose here and here after. The spiritually strong gain here and here-after. This is why liars, fake man-gods, delusional creatures etc. who have weak spirit lose here in this world and think that self-torture is sacrifice. These weak spirits encourage martyrdom (as they do not have strength to overcome evil) as something spiritually good, while the spiritually strong establish dharma through their mere might.

  80. why? says:

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/brain-metrics/could_a_final_surge_in

    May 01, 2015 | By: Mark Stokes

    Could a final surge in brain activity after death explain near-death experiences?

    Heightened awareness just after death

    Interestingly, the authors even suggest that the level of activity observed during the final active death stage (CAS3) not only resembles the waking state, but might even reflect a heightened state of conscious awareness similar to the “highly lucid and realer-than-real mental experiences reported by near-death survivors”. This is a pretty bold claim that critically depends on their quantification of ‘consciousness’. They argue that in the final stage of brain death there is actually more evidence for consciousness-related activity than during normal wakeful consciousness.

    Nevertheless, as the authors note, this research demonstrates a surge in brain activity after death that is consistent with active cognitive processing. This suggests that a neural explanation for these experiences is at least plausible. They have identified the right kind of brain activity for a neural explanation of near-death experiences, yet it remains to be verified whether these signatures do actually relate directly to the subjective experience.

    Future directions: The obvious next step is to test weather similar patterns of brain activity are observed in humans after clinical death. Then it will be important to show that such activity is strongly coupled to near-death experience. For example, does the presence or absence of such activity predict whether or not the person would report a near death experience? This second step is obviously fraught with technical and ethical challenges (think: The Flatliners), but would provide good evidence to link the neural phenomena to the phenomenal experience.

    http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/04/more-evidence-that-near-death-experiences-are-related-to-brain-activity-not-the-supernatural/

    More evidence that near death experiences are related to brain activity, not the supernatural
    April 10, 2015

    It’s long been suspected that what we describe as near death experiences (NDEs) may be related to processes in the brain that create a flurry of activity to produce the strange sensations. Those that survive the beginning of the shutdown process may tell about it as a religious or spiritual experience. Well, it’s certainly strange. New research supports the idea that it may be physiological, not supernatural.

    Near-Death Experiences May Be Explained By Heart-Brain Connection.

    The many experiences described by survivors of cardiac arrest — people revived even after their hearts stopped beating, sometimes for many minutes — include moving through a tunnel toward a white light, greeting relatives no longer alive, and overhearing conversations between family members in another room. A new study from the University of Michigan Medical School shows how the brain sends signals to the heart in the moments before death. It is this flurry of mental activity that is key to cardiac demise, the researchers say, and quite probably the foundation of near-death experiences as well.

    Including prior research, Dr. Jimo Borjigin explains that the reduction of oxygen during cardiac arrest can stimulate brain activity that may be interpreted as what we call an NDE.

  81. Ali Sina says:

    In the last two years I read more on NDE than on any other subject. What I found so far is that this world is not real. What appears as victory, success, loss and gain are all illusions. Take the examples of evil souls like the pedophile Khomeini, the mass murderer Khamanei, the homosexual liar and traitor Obama and countless other criminals. On the eyes of the world they are victorious. In reality their apparent victory is their doom. They will spend their eternity in hell. On the other hand a simple totally unknown person, who may be even homeless but helps others and gives the little that he has to alleviate the suffering of another human being less fortunate than him is successful. This concept is very much emphasized in the Bible. By worldly standards Jesus was a loser. He had no place to rest his head and was caught, beaten and crucified. But Jesus had the ultimate victory because He is now the king in heaven. This world is definitely not real. It is a simulation, nothing else.

    Now this idea is receiving confirmation by science as more and more scientists are coming to the conclusion that the universe is holographic and that reality is elsewhere. They postulate that the reality is projected from a two dimensional film from the edge of the universe. This idea is however absurd because the visible universe is 92 billion years across and it is possible that it can be a lot bigger, maybe a billion times bigger or maybe more. According to this theory things that happen here on Earth must have been projected at least 92 billion years ago. This makes no sense.

    Although I agree that the universe is holographic, I now believe that the matrix is right here. The projection happens from a dimension that is immaterial and hence not subject to space-time quantum. The real world is here and everywhere. It is not subject to any space or time. This world is holographic and is only a simulation. All your victories and losses here are illusions. The rich is not he who lives in luxury and the poor is not one who has no means to feed himself. The wealthy is one who has more awareness and the poor is one who has less awareness. All this becomes clear when we leave this holographic universe and enter in our real eternal abode.

  82. Ron says:

    Yes Walter,
    We are in a real world and not an illusion and we are saved by grace and faith in Jesus.

  83. Walter Sieruk says:

    It’s rather hard not to comment about the part at the and of this about article in which the author states that “this world is only a mirage…” Actually this world very real and is not an illusion. If by the word “mirage” the writer really means “Illusion.” In all fairness, I very much agree, with him, doing good words is very important. The point being the since this is a real world what a Christian does and doesn’t do, does matter. The Bible does teaches that actual, valid good works of worth do matter and will of lasting value. In contrast to worthless works done by the Christian that will not last because those type of works have no real value. As seen in First Corinthians 3:11-15. In short, this world we live in is very real and all true Christian should do good and lasting things. For we will have to answer before God how we lived our lives, Second Corinthians 5:10. Romans 14:12.

  84. Ron says:

    Ali,
    Very well said.

    I was more success minded and trying to be ahead in the rat race in this materialistic world where success is judged by how much wealth you have, how well you are known, what political control you have.

    It is when I met folks who accepted Christ and then changed their lives (180 degrees) and some of when then faced persecution and hardships and yet stuck to Jesus, I felt there could be a power in the name of Jesus which is above all powers.

    I questioned them, vetted their stories (which were true) and saw the changes in their lives as I needed assurance myself as I never had taken Jesus seriously and never read the gospels and decided that I would like to be like them and accepted Christ.

    When you accept Christ then you see and feel compassion on the homeless, orphans, widows, the poor the sick, destitute and the suffering. Also you want to see others saved in Christ (Please note you don’t get any money or position from any source) as you become selfless and love for fellow humans increases.

    Christ does make a difference.

    Christ answers if your sincerely search for Him.

    He changes you for good and you will never be the same again.

  85. charlie says:

    I agree with all you say. All that matters is love.

  86. Walter Sieruk says:

    Just for the record,the question brought up here is a branch theology that is under the heading of “Theodicy” which is defined as “A justification, in the presence of evil, of God’s goodness, justice, and justice, and knowledge .An explanation of how God , who is all-knowing and all-powerful, and all good, can allow evil in the world.” This is a college textbook definition. This college textbook is WORLD RELIGIONS by Warren Matthews

  87. J P Sundharam says:

    You have, as usual, given an insight that would be rejected by many and understood by few. Continue to share your insights for they help people like me who are eager to view the world beyond the prejudices that often hold us.

  88. Richard says:

    I think the key here is to understand the true nature of the relationship between the spiritual world and this world.

    I think the best analogy we have is something like a flight simulator. This world is like the simulated world – it exists as a concept within the spiritual world. As such we can think of this world as being a place where we can make mistakes – just like a trainee pilot – and ultimately it doesn’t matter. I think that with this added concept the rest of what you say makes even more sense.

%d bloggers like this: