When I contradict with the religion?

36 Responses

  1. Ra says:

    @Phoenix,
    Believe me, I am having fun and was laughing at you all the way. Your frustration is evident to the point you dream I would leave this forum before you suffer a nervous breakdown. Keep dreaming.

  2. Ron says:

    sujayrao2012,
    Can you please elaborate more about the dangers of Hindutva?

  3. Ron says:

    There is always hope that Christ can change even the vilest and hateful persons (some of whom are posting in this forum) as seen in the story of Niladri Kanhar. (For more updates you can follow Kavita Krishnan on twitter. She is a journalist and secretary of AIPWA. Also a book “Kandhamal a blot on Indian Secularism” tells the story.)

    Niladri Kanhar, who was RSS member, bodyguard of Swami for years, became disillusioned & turned Christian. He has faced murderous attacks from RSS and the Hindu Saffron brigade.
    Niladra Kanhar as RSS (Hindu Taliban) leader used to earlier kill and lead attacks on Christians in Kandhamal and in Orissa.

    Curious case of Niladri Kanhar

    Among the many narratives in the book, there is one by Niladri Kanhar. He was a hard core Sangh Privar activist who masterminded several attacks on Christians and their institutions earlier.
    However, his family underwent a series of major problems which resulted in the whole family becoming desperate and on the verge of losing hope. It is at this point that a pastor, Pavitra Mohomo, seems to have prayed over the family for many days and, as a result, all the suffering just vanished. This was a moment of conversion for Niladri who along with his whole family became Christian.
    A hardcore Sangh Parivar activist becoming a Christian was too much to bear for the saffron brigade. They harassed him repeatedly and finally burnt his house and beat him and left him half dead. Niladri survived, not before undergoing several surgeries. “Jesus was crucified. It is a joy for me to carry an injury for the faith in him,” he says.
    One fails to understand if Niladri’s case was a forced conversion or a result of inducement. Here is a clear violation of a person’s fundamental right of religious freedom. If this could happen to a redeemed Sangh Parivar activist, one can only imagine the plight of the ordinary tribals and dalits. “Threats, intimidation and boycott to force the returning Christians forsake their faith is continuing unabated in many villages in Kandhamal,” explains the author.

    source: townhall.com
    Numerous times throughout Scripture, we are reminded that as Christians we will be persecuted. Ours isn’t an easy road, for Satan wishes to make our lives treacherous as we seek to share the Gospel throughout the world. Missionaries in some countries encounter difficulties regularly. The International Mission Board shared the following story on their website:

    Pabitra Kata and Niladri Kanhar were jailed earlier this year simply for proselytizing. Both men have suffered beatings for claiming Christianity in their small Indian province. Kata has a jagged line over his right ear where his head is caved in from an attack, and Kanhar has a lengthy scar along his right side. They endure such beatings for the sake of the Gospel.

    They met more than five years ago when Kata, a pastor who wished to impact just one family for God, followed the Lord’s leading to the edge of a terrorist village. He returned to his home thinking he’d made a wrong turn and continued to pray that God would lead him to a family that needed Him. Meanwhile, Kanhar who was one of the most feared terrorist leaders in the village, was praying to one his gods for healing for his family members. During the night, his oldest daughter died. Kanhar left to take her body to a hospital for the death certificate. Moments later, Kata arrived having been prodded by the Holy Spirit to return to the village and the terrorist leader’s home.

    Kata pleaded with the grieving mother not to give up hope but to pray “in Jesus’ name” throughout the night. He promised to return the next day. The following morning, Kanhar and his daughter, who’d been pronounced dead, walked hand-in-hand back to their village. Kata, who stood in the family’s doorway, extended his hand to Kanhar and introduced himself, “I’m your new friend, Pabitra Kata.”

    Kanhar listened as his wife explained what had happened the evening before and began to believe. By that afternoon, he had given his life to Christ. Over the next few weeks, the two men met together in Kanhar’s home for prayer and Bible study. Kata told him to expect to suffer for his newfound faith. It didn’t take long. He and his family were forced to leave their home; he couldn’t find work; his brothers disowned him; and his children were kicked out of their school. Then Kanhar himself was brutally attacked. He leaned on God throughout the beating. Even as he was warned that he would die if he didn’t return to Hinduism, Kanhar fought back saying, “Even if you kill me or my children, I will remain a Christian until my last breath. I will stand firm in the truth of Jesus Christ.”

    We can have hope that Islamists and Christian haters can still come to the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

  4. Ron says:

    Dear Ra and Phoenix,

    Peace to all. . Please hold your horses and lets focus on defeating hate over here espoused primarily by Islam and others.
    We should forget small disagreements even as we combating hateful elements.

  5. Phoenix says:

    Ra,

    You seem frustrated.Allow me to suggest this: the reason for your frustration is that you have encountered the limits of Atheist reasoning and have found that they cannot apply to a rationally constructed worldview.
    You have not once responded to any of my objections against your arguments.It appears you lack the debate skills and basic knowledge on how to analyze an argument,hence your fallacious evasive tactics and ad hominem attacks.
    On this site we are primarily concerned with correct reasoning rather than correct punctuation.You have your priorities confused,so perhaps this site is not suitable for you because you do not argue at the level that is required.

    One more thing.You said:”…you should leave a space after a punctuation mark *and* you never leave a space after punctuation marks.”

    This is an incorrect usage of the word “and”,which denotes an additional consideration but you have only pointed out a single grammatical error.The correct word you should have used is “but”,since it indicates a contrast between concepts in an argument.You have failed at your own game and thus have forfeited your right to label others as pseudo-intellectual.

  6. sujayrao2012 says:

    You are doing a great service to society by attacking religious fanaticism of all kinds emanating from all religions . As an aside, please find my papers on the dangers of Hindutva revision of history

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sujay_Rao_Mandavilli/contributions

    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  7. Ra says:

    @Phoenix,
    If you were an educated adult you would have known that you should leave a space after a punctuation mark and you never leave a space after punctuation marks. You are a pseudo-intellectual.

  8. Phoenix says:

    @Ra
    Even the great Michelangelo is inspired by the Jewish Bible to paint ‘The Creation of Adam’ (above). It seems that you have some anti-Semitic tendencies//

    Your sanctimonious charge of anti-Semitism is without merit.Atheist reasoning dictates that the one who first charges his opponent with racism is the least racist.Ra,I’m afraid that’s not going to work here.You must demonstrate at which particular point did I implicitly or explicitly denigrate jews.You can’t do that,can you?

    “Dusty talks like a genuine man from the working class without using Latin locutions to impress like you do. He is not phony”

    Dusty and his cultist followers are a bunch of juvenile rebels who are emotionally and not rationally attached to their position.It’s time they learn to speak the language of educated adults.

  9. Ra says:

    @Phoenix,
    Even the great Michelangelo is inspired by the Jewish Bible to paint ‘The Creation of Adam’ (above). It seems that you have some anti-Semitic tendencies.
    Dusty talks like a genuine man from the working class without using Latin locutions to impress like you do. He is not phony.

  10. Phoenix says:

    @Ra

    I asked:Why do the beliefs of jewish people take precedence over that of any other individual?”

    Your response:Jewish people are the chosen people”

    Ok…you’ve convinced me.
    ===
    And now on to a completely different topic.You also said:”Here is a video of a logic man debunking NDE. Watch it with an open mind”

    Yeah,wearing a t-shirt that says “logic” does not make a man logical.Dusty is regurgitating nonsense that has been debunked countless times.For example,Dusty says an oxygen deprived brain is the source of NDEs.Now anyone who has even read a single NDE case and compared it with known hypoxia symptoms will immediately recognize some major discrepancies.Patients with hypoxia report feeling disoriented,confusion,blurred vision,memory loss etc. http://www.news-medical.net/health/Hypoxia-Symptoms.aspx
    The only symptom that even comes remotely close to an NDE,is the feeling of disassociation from the self,which is interpreted as an out of body experience.Otherwise the overwhelming majority of symptoms are not only different but the complete opposite.Dusty also erroneously evokes Ockam’s Razor,which he clearly does not understand.Just because he gave a simple explanation does not mean it is the correct explanation.The competing hypothesis must account for all the data,whilst being epistemically the most economical of the two.

    Ra,have you even met a jewish person? Because they usually don’t look and sound like Dusty.

  11. Ron says:

    The explanations given by the logic used by this man is understandable (though he used a lot of profanity) but it does not explain how people blind from birth can see, describe vividly their nearby surroundings, hear conversations.

    Most of the NDEs have seen below attributes concerning Christianity:
    1) Most NDEs have resulted in conversion or affirmation of belief in Christ, angels, heaven and hell.
    2) After NDEs conversion of a Christian to another religion is never seen.

    There are also relatively very few NDEs of Non Christians retaining their pre-NDE non-Christian beliefs.

    Christ is the way, the truth and life is true for me and I have seen radical changes in people who accept Christ as their personal saviour. NDEs are not my reason for accepting Christ though there is over-whelming evidence of people seeing Christ during NDEs.

    This is a blind from birth lady seeing other things and encountering Christ

  12. Ra says:

    Hi Pheonix,
    Jewish people are the chosen people.
    Here is a video of a logic man debunking NDE. Watch it with an open mind.
    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjYDZ8fUHk&w=560&h=315%5D

  13. Phoenix says:

    @Ra

    You are arguing from an appeal to authority and argumentum ad populum (appeal to the people) both are logical fallacies.Why do the beliefs of jewish people take precedence over that of any other individual?
    What are the beliefs of most jewish people? Why should we adopt them? Do they have any truth value that have been confirmed by physical evidence? it seems you know something the rest of us don’t.Please,do share.

  14. Ra says:

    Dear Ali,
    Jews know better than you or I, or even Ron, and they believe in neither NDE nor in the afterlife. So you should reconsider your beliefs in these matters. Thank you.

  15. Phoenix says:

    @ Ovi
    “While buying a home on credit, if I claim my bank account have a million dollar, then I must have to vindicate this claim with sufficient documents. But is there anyone ever come across a situation where they had to proof that their bank is truly empty? I never heard so.
    If you claim to find the largest piece of diamond the world have ever seen but failed to show it in your possession, that mean you don’t have it.//

    From your analogy I gather you are attempting to shift the burden of proof to the theist,by claiming not to be able to prove a negative.In fact one can prove a negative as well as prove their bank bank account is empty with a simple copy of the latest bank statement.So your analogy is just another fallacious false comparison.
    ===
    As a vet if during a blood examination, if I can’t find the existence of blood protozoa in the peripheral blood sample of a patient that mean it doesn’t have protozoal infestation. I won’t have to draw the whole blood till to last drop and scrutinize all 5-10 liters of blood to vindicate my claim. Failure to prove the existence of something, mostly considered as evidence that it simply doesn’t exists//

    The existence of God can and has been proven,the difference is in the type of evidence.Atheists demand a non-physical God to manifest himself physically before the Atheist,on demand,and then the Atheist will subject God to rigorous experimental tests.Besides the ontological error by committing a category mistake fallacy,(ie. investigate category P soley inside category Q,failure to detect P inside Q means P does not exist.)
    The evidence for God is thus mainly but not exclusively two-fold,1.philosophical and 2 primary.I’m certain you’re familiar with the former.The latter is primary evidence ie. personal and experiential to the individual since God is declared by theists to be a personal Being.
    ===
    Similarly we don’t need to prove the non-existence of God for being a rational atheist//

    This is an astonishing claim,since an Atheist is by definition a non-believer in God and is a negative claim.Yet you declare yourself to be rational but fail to spot the internal incoherence.You cannot prove the non-existence of God but your worldview is negative and demands proof.

    “The incessant endeavors attempted by millions of men, women and even children, over thousands of years to prove his existence but each and every of them miserably failed. What else can be the best evidence of the nonexistence of God?”//

    Really? Children tried to prove God’s existence? This is an ad hoc claim that cannot be taken seriously or be used as “evidence”…
    ===
    There are some who would like to claims solipsism comes right from God and makes us aware of ourselves. It is true that we are yet to develop a scale to measure the degree of solipsism or self awareness but we have the limited ability to understand it’s presence or absence. There are few other species alongside are found to inherit self awareness and passed mirror test, (Chimpanzees, dolphins are few of them) and each and every of them are located on the terminal branches of the tree of evolution. No other animal at the basal ramification have ever shown any sign of solipsism even to the lowest degree, from which we can easily conclude it is merely an ability achieved by evolution, not a celestial gift from the almighty//

    Firstly,Solipsism is not a theistic philosophical view per se.Most theists don’t even subscribe to it.Solipsism can be equally applied to atheism,agnosticism,deism and pantheism.
    Secondly,if solipsism is a product of evolution,then it must be beneficial and true,which contradicts your stance on the issue,since only traits that improve chances of survival and reproduction are favorably selected for.
    Thirdly,most theists and probably no theist has claimed solipsism is a “celestial gift from the almighty”.This is a straw man.
    ===
    t is true that we are yet to reach to the that level where we can understand “the nature of thought, identity and emotion” but for this instant we have discovered where they come from, for example emotion originate from amygdala of the limbic system, logical thoughts and reality associated with hippocampus, sexual thoughts are from accumbens nucleaus. Moreover we have invented the brain wave patter of those emotion and feelings, all we gotta do is to interpret//

    This is reductionism,an unwarranted extrapolation of neuroscience data,which you cannot prove conclusively.The Atheist claim all human responses have physical causes which is outside of the individual’s control,ie. man merely reacts,but does not act,at least intentionally.Even reasoning capabilities are said to be reduced to a constituent part and wholly influenced by external factors.But then,it is not reasoning for man played no part in it.He was duped into believing he deliberated when he was merely acting out what nature imposed on him.Adopting this reductionist view coupled with determinism necessarily relieves man from any moral responsibility.
    ===
    Definitely as human we have limitations, and there’s whole lots of thing we can’t perceive, perform and understand.“There is more to reality than what our senses or our instruments can detect.”
    One hell of a truth, and I fully agree with it. But I can assert one thing; this inability doesn’t mean “That is the spiritual reality.”It simply means we are yet to develop better senses through evolution and advance instruments through scientific researches to perceive it.//

    When Atheists attempt to portray themselves as humble truth-seekers,they always end up contradicting themselves.You concede “There is more to reality than what our senses or our instruments can detect” but reality per Philosophical Materialism is limited to what our senses and instruments can detect.Extrapolating beyond this leads one to delve into non-material realms,a conclusion you reject but the premises you accept.Rational people will examine their beliefs and accept the conclusion wherever it leads,even if it takes them away from previously cherished beliefs.
    ===
    The organic matters are purely represents life and it can only be created through life. A prehistoric sagacious speech nullified with the invention of urea by Friedrich Wohler. However I can still find it’s echo in the following sentence,“That reality is pure consciousness and it can be detected through consciousness.”//

    What are you arguing for here? Abiogenesis? If you are,then it’s an extremely poor argument because it uses circular reasoning.Organic matter represents life but it’s the waste product of living organisms.
    ===
    That reality is pure consciousness and it can be detected through consciousness.”
    If you want to define the word reality what we can perceive then reality is nothing more than electro-chemical signals induced by outside stimuli and passing through out synapses”//

    You have given no reasoning nor evidence for why reality is limited to what our senses can perceive.Tell me,which sense do you use when using your intuition and when utilizing intuitive principles?Which sense do you use when you are reasoning?

    //And if you think reality is something we can’t perceive, then how could it ever become reality? It’s just another form of imagination of our intricate self-aware mind. From the following sentence“The reality is elsewhere, a world that is not made of matter, where time and space don’t exist.”//

    This is another straw man.No one said reality cannot be perceived.The claim being made is,reality is not limited to matter and to what our senses can perceive.

    //I can only find the imagination but no trace of reality (most probably a fault of my conception).
    Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein all just changed our perception toward reality but not the reality itself to validate some spiritual absurdities. And the same thing will be done by their successors//

    There is definitely a fault in your conception and I’m trying hard to understand your train of thought,because none of this refutes the existence of God.It’s more like you’re taking potshots at theism rather than engaging in factual reasoning.
    The work of the aforementioned scientists was to study the material plane.Most of them were spiritual men,even Einstein,a deist,hated Atheism more than theism.

  16. Ali Sina says:

    This guy is also saying he was able to see the minds of the people who were around. I heard this by several people. With all the differences that exist in these stories they are very much consistent. Hallucination and dreams are not consistent. They can be very strange and absurd. You know they are not real as soon as you wake up. These experiences are very real to those people even years after they have them.

    I also heard from many others that those who commit suicide often go to a very horrible place.

    As for Muslims who think by hating mankind they go to paradise, they are for a big surprise. Most of them will go to hell directly. Only those Muslims who did not follow Muhammad will be saved.

  17. Ron says:

    Ali, I do agree with you that there is a spiritual reality beyond our material world.

    Watch this, his main language is French so his English is accented but his message is clear.
    He has many other videos up on youtube.

  18. Ali Sina says:

    Dear Dr. Ovi

    The evidence that there is a spiritual reality beyond the material world is overwhelming. The fact that materialists refuse to look into it is a problem that does not concern me and is beyond my control. The evidence is provided by the people who had near death experience. We are talking about millions of people coming from all walks of life, ages, races, cultures and belief systems. And as the medical science is improving and more people are resuscitated from death, we hear more of these stories.

    Materialists dismiss these evidences as trick of the oxygen deprived mind. One argument used to support this claim is that when astronauts in training are placed in a centrifugal machine to experience extreme gravity, they lose consciousness and in that state they experience something similar to what the near death experiences report. As a matter of fact this experience validates the claim of NDE that consciousness is independent from the brain. These astronauts are brought to the verge of death and they have NDE.

    When the brain is oxygen deprived, it cannot become super active. No other organ in human body becomes super active when it is deprived of oxygen that is delivered to it by the blood. Why the brain should be the exception?

    The experiences of the dying people are not the work of the brain. They are completely independent from it. Many of these people report going out of their body, seeing their body on the operation table, see the medical team working on their body from above, seeing the back of the heads of the doctors. Some of them curiously watching the operation and others disinterestedly walk out or float through the walls and ceilings, going to rooms that their relatives are and not only reporting accurately what they did and said but somehow they gain the ability to read their minds. One patient reported hearing her doctor praying for her while trying to bring her back, which was confirmed by her doctor. The same person said she met a man who told her that her time has not come and she would be going back to her body soon. When this woman told this story to her sister upon her recovery, her sister said that while she was in the chapel of the hospital praying the same man as described by her sister appeared to him and told her the same thing. The patient saw this man while being unconscious and clinically dead while her sister saw him while fully healthy praying in the chapel.

    There are countless stories like these that prove without any doubt that consciousness is independent from the body. I posted a dozen of them in the article “Why I Believe in God and Afterlife Now”. You can find it by searching it in Google. It comes at the top of the page.

    These videos and hundreds like these prove without a shadow of doubt that there is a non-material word. I challenge any materialist to look at these videos and explain them from the materialistic point of view. What I cannot do is to force them to watch them. They simply refuse to do so. Meanwhile they search the skeptics sites to see if these cases have been debunked and content themselves by copy pasting what other materialists have said without even bothering to verify their claim. The explanation of materialists makes no sense. It is utter nonsense.

    So although you are not required to prove the non-existence of God, you are required to explain how people with NDE could gain accurate information of what happened in places where their body was not during their temporary death.

    This was what convinced me that there is a spiritual world and it is the point that the materialists refuse to discuss. We can even accept the harebrained theory of oxygen deprived brain’s sudden ability to see complex and super realistic fantasies, such as seeing God, the death relatives, the hell and the heaven. But how can this theory explain the fact that many near death experiencers come back with information that they could not possibly have. For example a two year old child dies and upon his return he reports having met his elder sister in heaven who died in a miscarriage. This child was never told about of the miscarriage. When the materialists come up with a more sensible explanation of phenomena like these then we can take their argument seriously, failing to do that they are simply denying the evidence.

    “The incessant endeavors attempted by millions of men, women and even children, over thousands of years to prove his existence but each and every of them miserably failed. What else can be the best evidence of the nonexistence of God? “

    Human knowledge is constantly evolving. The Greek philosopher Aristotle (384-322 BC) argued that the Earth was spherical, because of the circular shadow it cast on the Moon, during a lunar eclipse. He even calculated the size of the Earth by calculating the length of two shadows of the same size poles in the same day and hour, placed in Alexandria and another city to the south of it. Despite this, the majority of people still believed that the Earth was flat. Eventually people were forced to change their views when the evidence became overwhelming.

    It is true that for thousands of years there was little evidence of the spiritual world and God. That however has changed in the recent decades. Today the NDE provides irrefutable evidence. Holding to the past beliefs is no longer rational. Materialism is doomed because the evidence disproves it. I have discussed this evidence and provided a dozen of videos to back my argument. Actually I can give hundreds of such cases. Not a single materialist has bothered to discuss these arguments. They cannot get close to it because it shows all their arguments are false.

    “There are few other species alongside are found to inherit self awareness and passed mirror test,”

    All living beings have self-awareness, starting from amoeba. The size of this awareness increases with the size of the consciousness. Humans have larger consciousness than other animals, however all animals and even plants are conscious and have a degree of the knowledge of self, that is how they can defend themselves against danger. On the other hand, the most powerful computers that are smarter than man and can beat anyone at almost any task have no awareness of them selves. The difference is that while living organisms have soul a.k.a. self, computers have o soul and therefor no self or self awareness.

    We are not biological machines. We are spiritual beings, temporarily having a physical experience, whether as human, chimp, or ant.

  19. While buying a home on credit, if I claim my bank account have a million dollar, then I must have to vindicate this claim with sufficient documents. But is there anyone ever come across a situation where they had to proof that their bank is truly empty? I never heard so.
    If you claim to find the largest piece of diamond the world have ever seen but failed to show it in your possession, that mean you don’t have it.
    As a vet if during a blood examination, if I can’t find the existence of blood protozoa in the peripheral blood sample of a patient that mean it doesn’t have protozoal infestation. I won’t have to draw the whole blood till to last drop and scrutinize all 5-10 liters of blood to vindicate my claim. Failure to prove the existence of something, mostly considered as evidence that it simply doesn’t exists.

    Similarly we don’t need to prove the non-existence of God for being a rational atheist. The incessant endeavors attempted by millions of men, women and even children, over thousands of years to prove his existence but each and every of them miserably failed. What else can be the best evidence of the nonexistence of God?
    There are some who would like to claims solipsism comes right from God and makes us aware of ourselves. It is true that we are yet to develop a scale to measure the degree of solipsism or self awareness but we have the limited ability to understand it’s presence or absence. There are few other species alongside are found to inherit self awareness and passed mirror test, (Chimpanzees, dolphins are few of them) and each and every of them are located on the terminal branches of the tree of evolution. No other animal at the basal ramification have ever shown any sign of solipsism even to the lowest degree, from which we can easily conclude it is merely an ability achieved by evolution, not a celestial gift from the almighty.
    It is true that we are yet to reach to the that level where we can understand “the nature of thought, identity and emotion” but for this instant we have discovered where they come from, for example emotion originate from amygdala of the limbic system, logical thoughts and reality associated with hippocampus, sexual thoughts are from accumbens nucleaus. Moreover we have invented the brain wave patter of those emotion and feelings, all we gotta do is to interpret.
    Definitely as human we have limitations, and there’s whole lots of thing we can’t perceive, perform and understand.
    “There is more to reality than what our senses or our instruments can detect.”
    One hell of a truth, and I fully agree with it. But I can assert one thing; this inability doesn’t mean “That is the spiritual reality.”
    It simply means we are yet to develop better senses through evolution and advance instruments through scientific researches to perceive it.
    The organic matters are purely represents life and it can only be created through life. A prehistoric sagacious speech nullified with the invention of urea by Friedrich Wohler. However I can still find it’s echo in the following sentence,
    “That reality is pure consciousness and it can be detected through consciousness.”
    If you want to define the word reality what we can perceive then reality is nothing more than electro-chemical signals induced by outside stimuli and passing through out synapses. And if you think reality is something we can’t perceive, then how could it ever become reality? It’s just another form of imagination of our intricate self-aware mind. From the following sentence
    “The reality is elsewhere, a world that is not made of matter, where time and space don’t exist.”
    I can only find the imagination but no trace of reality (most probably a fault of my conception).
    Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein all just changed our perception toward reality but not the reality itself to validate some spiritual absurdities. And the same thing will be done by their successors.

    “We may be at the verge to discover God (in this century or at this modern time),”
    “An apocalypse coming”
    These are two sentence peoples are hearing since the dawn of civilization yet there’s nothing happened, and I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing them over and over again.

    It is true that charlatans like Muhammad and many others, took advantage of humans’ quest for God for their own personal gain.

    Lastly can we please stop using that slang word started with the letter “M”. Even reading it caused a whirlpool in my tummy and I’m about to vomit. At least we can write M******d instead. That look a bit more civilized than a rouge desert mobster.

  20. Dr. Ovi says:

    While buying a home on credit, if I claim my bank account have a million dollar, then I must have to vindicate this claim with sufficient documents. But is there anyone ever come across a situation where they had to proof that their bank is truly empty? I never heard so.
    If you claim to find the largest piece of diamond the world have ever seen but failed to show it in your possession, that mean you don’t have it.
    As a vet if during a blood examination, if I can’t find the existence of blood protozoa in the peripheral blood sample of a patient that mean it doesn’t have protozoal infestation. I won’t have to draw the whole blood till to last drop and scrutinize all 5-10 liters of blood to vindicate my claim. Failure to prove the existence of something, mostly considered as evidence that it simply doesn’t exists.

    Similarly we don’t need to prove the non-existence of God for being a rational atheist. The incessant endeavors attempted by millions of men, women and even children, over thousands of years to prove his existence but each and every of them miserably failed. What else can be the best evidence of the nonexistence of God?
    There are some who would like to claims solipsism comes right from God and makes us aware of ourselves. It is true that we are yet to develop a scale to measure the degree of solipsism or self awareness but we have the limited ability to understand it’s presence or absence. There are few other species alongside are found to inherit self awareness and passed mirror test, (Chimpanzees, dolphins are few of them) and each and every of them are located on the terminal branches of the tree of evolution. No other animal at the basal ramification have ever shown any sign of solipsism even to the lowest degree, from which we can easily conclude it is merely an ability achieved by evolution, not a celestial gift from the almighty.
    It is true that we are yet to reach to the that level where we can understand “the nature of thought, identity and emotion” but for this instant we have discovered where they come from, for example emotion originate from amygdala of the limbic system, logical thoughts and reality associated with hippocampus, sexual thoughts are from accumbens nucleaus. Moreover we have invented the brain wave patter of those emotion and feelings, all we gotta do is to interpret.
    Definitely as human we have limitations, and there’s whole lots of thing we can’t perceive, perform and understand.
    “There is more to reality than what our senses or our instruments can detect.”
    One hell of a truth, and I fully agree with it. But I can assert one thing; this inability doesn’t mean “That is the spiritual reality.”
    It simply means we are yet to develop better senses through evolution and advance instruments through scientific researches to perceive it.
    The organic matters are purely represents life and it can only be created through life. A prehistoric sagacious speech nullified with the invention of urea by Friedrich Wohler. However I can still find it’s echo in the following sentence,
    “That reality is pure consciousness and it can be detected through consciousness.”
    If you want to define the word reality what we can perceive then reality is nothing more than electro-chemical signals induced by outside stimuli and passing through out synapses. And if you think reality is something we can’t perceive, then how could it ever become reality? It’s just another form of imagination of our intricate self-aware mind. From the following sentence
    “The reality is elsewhere, a world that is not made of matter, where time and space don’t exist.”
    I can only find the imagination but no trace of reality (most probably a fault of my conception).
    Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein all just changed our perception toward reality but not the reality itself to validate some spiritual absurdities. And the same thing will be done by their successors.

    “We may be at the verge to discover God (in this century or at this modern time),”
    “An apocalypse coming”
    These are two sentence peoples are hearing since the dawn of civilization yet there’s nothing happened, and I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing them over and over again.

    It is true that charlatans like Muhammad and many others, took advantage of humans’ quest for God for their own personal gain.

    Lastly can we please stop using that slang word started with the letter “M”. Even reading it caused a whirlpool in my tummy and I’m about to vomit. At least we can write M******d instead. That look a bit more civilized than a rouge desert mobster.

  21. Dr. Nishant says:

    Hello, Commoner, Ali, Ra on,
    We all have several unanswered questions, which make us restless and look for answers. O have slightly different views than yours correct me when I am wrong.
    Commoner, you found Ali’s views congruent with Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism etc. I think it is usually so, because it doesn’t matter what religion you are of, we all think alike and I would like to believe (without any evidence) that it is so because the universal truth is the same. In fact all that has been said here are precisely the same questions and answers which upanishadic scholars began their treaties with. The same principles like compassion, love, equality are seen in propnents of the varied religions. That’s why people like Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, mahivra, are reverred across religious divide. Its the priests and organised religious organisations have created an artificial divide in our minds. Krishna himself never wanted the bhagvat gita to be preached as it would be missused. Jesus was a jew and truly wanted to enlighten the people. People later created a separate religion called Christianity, for good or bad is not my point. The Jain scriptures mention that the grace of the tirthankaras is upon all beings with no favouritism. In fact the messages of all these religions are universal (of course the exception is Islam) . That’s why it is immaterial if mother Teresa was a Christian or mahatma Gandhi was a Hindu, for they live through their works. So, what’s my point??? It is the nature of the unenlightened soul to think with his ego.
    This is the basic problem. I want my views, my religion and my opinions to dominate others. Jesus was a selfless guy, he cared for nothing than emancipation of the human souls.
    Buddha, left all his wealth and wandered alleviating peoples misery.
    Mahavira, was a hopeless ascetic by our standards, he didn’t even wear a single thread on his body and wandered barefoot from place to place teaching people the truth.
    Really, all their messages of love and compassion are so similar. They just differ in semantics and according to the societies they lived in.
    I think it is the nature of the unenlightened psyche to find a difference where there is not. If you decide to see similarity in all these doctrines, everything changes. This is a recent development in me, I just changed my approach to see things after reading many scriptures of different religions and I think this gives a tremendous insight for now, I do not just know the verses in gita which say god resides in all creatures hearts equally but now I can actually sense it. So, what actually changed? Externally nothing, but at least the understanding improved.
    I also realised that, if I ask a question out of my ego, not in the spirit of enquiry and not in order to transform my self or advance my spiritually, I can ask many questions. Really, if the mind wants to question, it can question endlessly. Somebody gives you a comprehensive answer, and you question that answer. This can go on endlessly. There is no answer to philosophical questions. Any answer and there is a question. So the spirit of enquiry is what actually helps in understanding and not the questions themselves. This is my opinion. So please try to understand what I am saying.
    You mentioned about Rahu engulfing the moon. This is pure mythology of the puranas(puranas are the Hindu stories among common Hindu folks, which need not subscribe to stringent rules of repetition and reproduction that other texts like Vedas,upanishads have to be subjected to). These are common folklore, which later with the bhakti (devotional) movement became central. The Hindu theology is that there are innumerable paths to reach god. The can be classified onto 3. 1) path of knowledge,Tantra, yoga, meditation etc. Many of these paths begin with the assumption that there is no god, and with various techniques 1 has to ascertain the truth for himself. 2)the paths of karma right action, right thoughts etc here 1 believes in doing ehical works and thoughts guided by the guru, 1 has to work delligiently with the only aim of serving the universal god through service of humanity 3)The path of devotion, the straight path. Here you just have to pray, be thankful to god and remember him in all things you do no matter what the circumstances. He takes care of you. God has many many names, but any name which conforms to universal compassion and such attributes is good enough. God personally, takes form of the deity you worship and delivers you out of the mayajal (matrix of illusion) such is the belief of the devotees. Since a pure hearted devotee, has little interest in arguments and is happy singing the hymns of god, all theology/philosophy is wasted on him. Even though, Shankara, Buddha, mahivra, and all those maharishis gained their enlightenment through penance and meditation(path of knowledge), most people are inclined to worship. The enlightened beings of the old time had severe difficulties in explaining to other people what they knew, and they have expressed their frustrations with common language to express themselves. It is so often heard statement that the reality is Kalpanatit (beyond imagination), so how can any one explain which cannot be related to anything that exists materially? Thus maybe they invented these stories to explain the concepts. Moon god becomes egoistic after gaining many boons and becomes arrogant, that’s why by design god makes rahu to engulf him, and after repentance of moon god he makes rahu go away only to repeat the grahan for the beneficience of the people via moon god, so that they remember that no matter how powerful you are, arrogance will lead to your decline is a universal truth. Also people in those times went to learned scholars for every answer and maybe they cooked up a story with moralistic conclusion. Really, every story has a moral value, some teach about virtues like love, compassion, non violence while others teach about the bad effects of karmas like stealing killing, acting in anger, acting in arrogance etc.If common people believe in these puranas and jataka tales (Buddhist mythology) they remember the important moral lessons. Surely, it is very difficult to live an ascetics life and not every one is inclined to follow it. I have no doubt in my mind that a pure devotee, who follows the path of universal love and compassion irrespective of his delusions/beliefs, be him a Christian , a Buddhist or a Hindu will attain to enlightenment, because if he doesn’t who would?
    As far as the other question, of god being vengeful or that of innocent people getting hurt, children getting killed etc. The religious thought is similar in all eastern religions. For example, Krishna divides himself into multiple forms, of which the relevant to the question are, 1 is in every living creatures heart, 1 is his prakriti (natural law) form, which determines what’s to come next based on karmas of the being and natural order, this may change based on the use of ones freewill, and when it is necessary as decided by the form in heart. This philosophy further states that even though we may will anything, we cannot do anything without the consent of prakriti which is the law of nature and is impartial, but for a conscious (wise, devoted, constantly thinking of god) Krishna changes his fate by various means (premonition, luck or unseen ways) with the only concern of furthering ones enlightenment. Thus at no point, is God out of control of any aspect of the material world. Indeed, all eastern religions believe that every soul comes to life with a purpose, and that purpose is enlightenment. If only prakriti (natural laws) are guiding a person then it will take thousands of lives to gain enlightenment, and they all believe in rebirth. If enjoying the fruits of karma is the aim for comitting any action, then good karma would lead to a life of many many years in a heavenly world to the liking of the soul, and in bad karma a soul will suffer a hellish world for many many years, but both kind of these people will finally be born again as humans until they gain enlightenment, nirvana, moksha etc. Do not mistake the path of karma to reach enlightenment with this. The path of karma to enlightenment is to do karma dilligiently as per ones skill, with explicit service to humanity and submitting (praying) all the fruits of karma to god, that is not expecting any benefit from any actions(pretty tough, huh?). So, maybe the innocent kid that died on a beach was to make aware to the people of their inherent humanity. The child really isn’t dead as a soul can’t die and as every eastern religion says ‘everything that happens, happens for good( that is every event progresses a soul towards enlightenment). Maybe the child’s growth would have a better prospect in another life than as a Muslim. I do not know for certain, but if the eastern literature is to be taken as a guide, I am not supposed to know as all of this is kalpanatit (beyond imagination) and only the one who has transcended the mind can know. I can’t even stop my mind from thinking for even a minute, let alone transcend it.
    The problem is with me, for I cannot follow any path diligently, but I am trying. I don’t have the gift of a devotional inclination, I lack the aptitude. So with the remaining 2 paths I try. Philosophy, I do not think answers any of the spiritual questions, it just raises more questions.
    I always thought that we all have a working philosophy. A philosophy based on values that we acquire consciously and subconsciously, with this philosophy we judge our actions and of that of others. So I started formulating questioning, answering debating (introspecting) , reading and consciously recording it. These philosophies only give semblance of knowledge, but essentially no qualitative change occurs. I am satisfied with my answers only for a period, sometimes for years but actually there is no closure. Its just endless questions, which just raise my ego, but the innards are hollow. Philosophy may be good for material science, but I think it is useless spiritually. I have come to the understanding that how could a mind which knows everything through senses know something that is beyond senses? It’s not possible. Even imagination has limits confined to the faculty of senses.
    But this much I know, and for which no proof is required, that I am alive, that consciousness is definite and i also feel that a universal consciousness permeates throughout the universe.
    Since unquestioning devotion is not my personality, and I find it difficult to not think in terms of monetary gains in the corporate world even though my profession is supposedly noble, I cannot think in terms of absolute benevolence ( I like the aptitude) I have decided to take the most difficult of paths( although I try to follow devotional and karma related paths as much as I can) the path of knowledge. The spiritual science of the east has many knowledge paths, like to become a doctor you have to study medicine and not engineering, I have come to believe that spiritual science is required to gain spiritual knowledge and material science is futile.
    Somebody questioned Ali, why he has changed from being an atheist to a believer in God and his recent interest in NDE’s. I think he is genuinely trying, and everyone should try in all the ways possible to get enlightened as I have come to believe, no effort is wasted. I request Ali to keep us posted about his growth by the way of NDE’s
    Commoner, you said that science has made so much progress in terms of knowledge of the brain that we may be able to understand consciousness in detail in the future. Well, that future is probably not in our lifetime. functional imaging that is where you see different areas of brain light up, to different stimuli and certain functions is the frontier in clinical practice and even though I am no neurologist, I would have at least heard of any advancement beyond that. Anyways, we are just scraping the surface as far as brain functioning is concerned otherwise we would have had definitive cures for many functional diseases and to talk about the whole conscious mind , I think is too far fetched. So if I do not feel that science is going to provide me answers in my lifetime, or even if I suppose it does, I do not want to place my bets on the future science.
    I am currently experimenting with Tantra, book of secrets (vigyan bhairav Tantra) with a commentary by OSHO. It is lucidly written for a layman. The book doesn’t deal with philosophy at all. A question is asked, and a meditation method is given to practice. The answer is supposed to arise automatically within ones self. No theology no arguments. The question is not even addressed, just a technique is given. Just concentrate on these points on breath and you will know! 1st when I read it, it looked absurd, ridiculous, how can this work? So, have I gained something? I do not know, but I do feel different, my attitude has changed, my personality change is noticed by people, I have become ambiguous, and tend to avoid debates or forceful assertions, I think I have become more understanding, more compassionate, can sense things. Maybe, I am developing a type of neurosis, who knows? But it definitely feels better.

  22. @Commoner

    I would like to know the answer to these questions myself. However, the fact is that not knowing all the answers about something does not invalidate that thing. There are so many unanswered questions about the universe and how it works. And this is the world we live in and experience. The questions about the other world are many. Yet we can’t deny that world because there is irrefutable evidence that it exists.
    I have found some of the answers I had regarding God that more or less satisfy me. For example why God allows people including innocent children to die in natural catastrophes and does not save them. The answer that satisfies me is that death is a mirage. Nobody dies. Life is like a game of chess. During a game some pawns are killed and removed but the same pawn are put back in the next game. There is no death so what to us appears as a major calamity is not so for those who die.

    Also God cannot control natural events. If a rock is dropped from a height, God cannot stop it in midair. As I said, God is a scientist but not a magician.

    Let us say your car swirls out of the road and falls in a cliff. God cannot pull it out. He however can inspire someone to stop and notice you and then call for help. God is consciousness and works through conscious beings.

    In my previous post I said we are the drivers of our lives and God is in the passenger seat. He can’t drive our life for us but we can ask for directions so we don’t get lost or fall off from the road.

    “Humans didn’t have a single good, consistent and reliable divine guidance from the very beginning. “
    I think we did. God gave us conscience. If we use it we can find the right way. We don’t need a prophet to come from God to teach us the Ten Commandments. Aren’t they obvious and commonsense? Even animals have the freedom to do good or do evil. I saw on Youtube a bear saving a claw that fell in a pool and was drowning or a cat chasing away a dog that attacked a toddler. Did these animals learn to do good from a religion? The Chinese or the First Nation Americans did not have a prophet. They have always had the same sense of morality and ethics as those who had one, if not more.

  23. Ra says:

    @ Ali Sina, “…the world may be nothing but a hologram.” Hahaha, that’s a good one.

  24. Commoner says:

    Correction: please read the sentence “assuming….it does show the god…” as “assuming… it does show the God in poor light”

  25. Commoner says:

    @AliSina, you may already be aware that your understanding is almost identical to Eastern religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism et al. But unfortunately there is no evidence that i know of nor believable. Assuming these criminals go to hell for their deeds it does show the loving god in good night. He created them like that or let them be “like” that and then punish for it severely.

    Humans didn’t have a single good, consistent and reliable divine guidance from the very beginning. Each region had its own Messiah, philosophy and God. They all came with their own set of rules, rituals and philosophies. For some eating meat is a sin, for a few even drinking animal’s milk or other products is forbidden. Abrahamic sects thought god created everything for men to enjoy. With such extreme views and ways of life, one cant expect humans not to commit sin (whatever that means!) and if they do put them in hell or send them back to suffer again! This doesnt seem to add up.

    FYI. I never said I am an atheist or materialist. I am also like millions of people looking for the ultimate truth.

  26. Ali Sina says:

    @Commoner

    “What happens to charlatans, mass murderers, fake prophets who mislead and exploit millions of people? Do they just merge with this God or the super-concscious being?”

    Based on my little understanding that is what happens. However, there is a caveat. Filthy souls like the one you mentioned and the kinds of Muhammad and Hitler will have to go through a purification process before merging with God. That purification may be made through reincarnation or hellfire or both. A criminal may spend a time in hell and eventually sent back to reincarnate, maybe as a human or maybe as an animal. However, since time in the other world does not exist, a criminal that dies today and reincarnates in a year from now may have spent an eternity in hell before returning.

    We are so accustomed to time and space that it is very difficult to envision a reality that is not bound by them. Yet we know for a fact that time and space are byproducts of matter. Beyond the atomic world there is no time and space.

    All the waters on earth whether in their cleanest form as snow at the top of a mountain or in a cesspool come from the ocean. They are essentially of the same nature. They all return to the ocean, some sooner and some later. As souls only the pure ones can return to God .

    “People believe in and take comfort in Afterlife because that gives them some hope and purpose in the current.”

    Atheists keep repeating this mantra like Muslims repeating theirs. But this is not true. I did not believe in God because I wanted to have hope. I had to believe because I was unable to deny the evidence and remain intellectually honest. In fact after I believed in God I had to make sense of God because everything I knew of Him made me believe that He is not a good deity. I replied to a Christian once that one reason I cannot believe in God is because I am a better person than him and since that can’t be possible God cannot exist. Now I was left the three choices. Believe in an evil god to save my skin from his hell, reject him and go to hell or try to understand what the hell is going on. I chose the third and figuring out that religious books have little to teach me I started reading the stories of the NDE. That is when I gradually put the pieces of the puzzle together and realized that I was not too far from the truth in rejecting the god people have made up. I reject the same myth that you reject. But now I have also an understanding of the true God. Yes He is a very goo God, a loving father. We are not God’s slaves as that evil soul Muhammad said. God is not a slave owner. We are God’s children. not figuratively but literally. Our soul is directly born from God. And we are free, just like our Father in Heaven.

  27. Commoner says:

    @AliSina, it was interesting to know about your views on God, his involvement in day to day incidents, that he can not violate the universal laws etc. In this universe of yours what happens to charlatans, mass murderers, fake prophets who mislead and exploit millions of people?

    Do they just merge with this God or the super-concscious being? Thats it? No connection between their earthly life and the eternal one?

    People believe in and take comfort in Afterlife because that gives them some hope and purpose in the current. But the truth in my view is there is no afterlife, no merging of human/animak souls with godhead or supreme personality. Its very saddening to me as welk and feel depressed but unfortunately that appears to be the reality.

  28. In all truthfulness I had no need to believe in an afterlife. It made no sense to me and I repeatedly said if God existed, He must be a cynical cruel god for basing the foundation of this universe on injustice. I did not search for God. I did not want to search for something that to me was a fantasy and even if real a cruel being. I came to believe in God because I had no choice. When the evidence pounds on your head like a sledge hammer, you can no longer pretend it did not affect you.

    I always strived to be fair and intellectually honest to myself. I never in my life tried to fool others and far less I would want to fool myself. The evidence of the afterlife through NDE is undeniable. It is not rational to reject the evidence. The evidence is overwhelming while the denial of the materialists and their silly explanations sound more and more ridiculous and absurd. The irony is that they love to call themselves rationalists when there is nothing rational in their arguments. They call themselves skeptics when their faith in materialism is more dogmatic than the most fanatical religionists that they so love to disparage.

    The explanation that the oxygen deprived brain hallucinates is not rational. And even if this were so, how can we explain the fact that many of theses near death experiences float out of their bodies and go to other rooms, see and hear everything their relatives say and what they claim to have seen is confirmed by others, their doctors, nurses and relatives?

    Once such verified case is enough to establish the independence of consciousness and we have thousands.

    Now after having no choice but to accept the existence of afterlife and God, my problem that God is unjust was not resolved. I had to solve that problem urgently. I realized there is no way for me to solve it because I don’t know a hoot about God and how He manages his creation. There are two ways for me to know. One is to go out of my body and the other is to read the stories of NDE.

    I tried hard to practice astral projection. I read many book and techniques particularly the books of Robert A. Monroe. I could not do it. So I kept reading the stories of NDE. I learned a lot and I still have more questions.

    I learned that what people think about God is false. God is not an unknowable power, energy or force, or as I used to say the Principle Underlying the Creation. Yes there is a principle underlying the creation but that principle is made by God. I learned that God is a person. Don’t be confused. He is not a human. He is Spirit. Even we are spirit having a human experience now. This body is the vehicle we need when we come to interact with this world. The same can be said about animals. An elephant is only elephant in this world. Once he leaves this world he is only a spirit, like God. Spirits are formless and genderless. All these animals you see in this world are vehicles we spirits use when we come to interact with this world. In spirit we are all the same, just of different size. In spirit we are of the same essence that God is made of.

    I also learned that God is not the creator of the universe. This universe is governed by very precise laws and live evolves according to the Darwinian principles. There is also another spiritual force at work that I have to yet understand. I know there is more to evolution than the gradual adaptation, but I don’t understand it yet.

    Unlike what everyone believes God does not have His hand in everything. He is not micromanaging our lives. In fact God does not intervene. The only times that He intervenes is when we ask Him to. I really don’t know whether it is that he cannot intervene without us allowing him or whether he just chooses not to. I am more inclined to say that God cannot intervene in what happens in the world unless we ask him to. And it makes sense. If you are the driver of this vehicle you call your body, you are the only person in charge. Now God is sitting in the passenger seat. You can ask him for help and he will help. But only one person can be the driver.

    All my life I have been the driver of my life and despite the fact that I am relatively intelligent, I made a mess of it. Sometimes my decisions were right and sometimes they were not. Now that I know God is sitting next to me in the passenger seat of my life, I ask for His help all the time. He likes to help. But we have to let him. A vehicle cannot have two drivers. Now, remember, that we are always in the driver seat and God is always in the passenger seat. This is our vehicle. We are responsible and in charge. However, we can ask for help.

    God is not involved in this world. He very much likes to be and the only way He can be is when we let him. This is done all through thoughts. You just ask God to help you and trust that it is done.

    Another thing that I learned is that God is not a magician. He cannot do anything He pleases. He is the author of this universe but this universe is governed by very precise laws that God cannot violate. God is a mathematician, a scientist, a physicist but not a magician. Even magic is governed by laws. Rabbits don’t come out of a hat. Many be an example can explain this. Compare this universe to a giant computer. God wrote its software. But just as a software programmer cannot do with his application anything he pleases and like anyone else he is bound by rules and laws of mathematics and computer programing, God cannot violate the rules that he used to create the universe. This is very simple to demonstrate. 2+2=4. God cannot change the result to 5 or to any other number. He is bound by the laws of mathematics.

    I can’t say I understand. But I can say I understand more than I used to and the more I understand the more I realize whatever we people think about God is wrong. So when you see thousands perish in a tsunami, it is not the act of God and God could not prevent it. Now this is blasphemy to religious people, but it makes perfect sense to me because I now have a different understanding of God.

    I also learned that this universe is just a virtual reality. It looks real and the only reality that exists. But that is not true. No one dies, not even animals, not even bugs or the grass beneath your feet. We are all souls and soul is eternal. We are all from God and like a water molecule that separates from the ocean travels to land and experiences it we separate from God, come to this world to experience it.

    It is not about testing. It is about experiencing. The world of spirit is perfect. We come to this world to experience contradictions and imperfections, challenges and struggles. We come here to touch things, to build, to breathe air, but most importantly to experience relationships with other souls, as children, siblings, lovers, parents, nieces and nephews, aunts and uncles, cousins, friends, co-workers, etc. We play the role of student, teacher, employee, boss, peasant and king. All these experiences become part of our memory. The good and the bad are all memories and they are all lovely. We come here to experience time. That is a wonderful and unique experience. None of these exist in heaven. In the spirit world there is no time. Everything is eternity and present.

    Now that I know I am eternal and that I came to this world by my choice, I am grateful to God for this opportunity. Although this life seems long, it is actually a blip in our eternal existence. With this understanding, I savior every morsel I put in my mouth. I cherish every breath I take in, relish every I friendship and every chance I get to impact the lives of others. I came for this – to live and experience life as a human and it has been wonderful. Thank you God for this opportunity.

  29. Ron says:

    Dear Yasin,

    Many struggle with the same issue.

    I learnt that God has given us a free will, yet he has certain commandments which are easy to follow. Jesus said love God will all your heart, mind, body and soul. Secondly love your neighbour as yourself.
    If you reach out to God you will always get an answer.

    If you design a robot and program it to say I love you every time to look at it. Then that robot is not saying anything of his own free will but is saying because it is programmed to do so.

    God loves us in spite of our free will to break his commandments.

    In relation or comparison to eternity (many many years) our present lifespan is small. So trials and tribulations in this world may seem a big burden to you but it is small when compared to the peace, joy and bliss you get in this life and afterlife when you accept Jesus as your personal saviour.

    You will understand this better when you accept Christ and then you will feel compassion on people in need or people who have been hurt or grieved.

    It is not a foolish test. When you see someone in need or trouble and help them you are getting an opportunity to show or reflect God’s love which you receive in abundance when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

    Read the book of John and say a simple prayer sincerely “O God who created me come to me in dreams and visions and show me that you are God so that I can worship you ”
    .
    God not only responds, He will also confirm it with unexpected words or deeds from someone known or unknown to you.

    May the peace of Christ be with you!!!

  30. Phoenix says:

    @Commoner
    According to Materialism,not only is science “not a bad thing…”, It is the best and only thing that can produce knowledge.An unwarranted and unproven claim,period.
    Materialists are known to put their undoubted faith in science which cannot produce absolute truths and absolute certainties but only contingent data that is always ready to be overturned as further data is acquired.
    Since science cannot produce absolutes because it always falls prey to the inductive fallacy (see Hume’s Induction Problem)and Atheists only accept scientific factoids about reality,therefore Atheists must concede the non-existense of truth from their epistemological position.
    This internal incoherence present in Philosophical Materialism,renders all Atheist propositions suspect.

    So,either truth exists or it does not.If there exists truth how can we know it? What method is the most reliable for such an acquisition?
    Think carefully before answering and visit your fellow Atheist sites for answers if necessary.

  31. Commoner says:

    @phoenix. My first point about science might 1 day understand and measure is a hypothesis but not without any rationale. It is based on tremendous progress science and humans have made over millennia. Not a bad thing to base your hypothesis on.

    Given how much we have understood about brain of late it is probable and likely that we get some idea about consciousness as well.

  32. Phoenix says:

    @Commoner

    You said:Who knows Mr Sina, one day science (humans) may find a way to measure consciousness as well! Until a few decades ago people believed in many things – for e.g. lunar eclipse is caused by snake (Demi god Raghu in Hinduism) swallow ing the moon. Still some people do in India//

    Your assertion that science will someday measure consciousness is purely a hypothetical that cannot be proven emprically,either observationally or experimentally.And your examples from an outdated hindu practice is a false association fallacy,there is no connection between a snake swallowing the moon and a non-physical consciousness.In fact,your example fails under a straw man,red herring and poisoning the well fallacies,not to mention a non-sequitir.Unless of course you could provide a) actual emprical data and/or b) a sound deductive argument for your case.
    ===
    Humans didnt have any clue how brain works until recently. Now we know at least something about it. So it is possible that consciousness also will be deciphered//

    This is an example of inductive reasoning that leads to an inductive fallacy or faulty generalization.In other words,”because some instances have been the case therefore all other instances must be the same” .It is not a sound argument because it does not follow the rules of deduction.Only deductive reasoning leads to true conclusions.
    ===
    The term materialist is used iwith negative canotations recently. Spiritualists consider themselves superior to material ists like a theist does for an atheist. In fact materialists are realists and practical who just cant stand the mumbo jumbo of spirits, super -conscience.//

    Materialsim is not a practical philosophy to implement.It requires one to reject free will and moral responsibility,it is counter-intuitive,it devolves humans to mere animals,it supresses teleology for a superficial purpose/meaning of life,it is a hindrance and stagnation on science,etc.Materialism may seem attractive to many only because it is currently still parasitic on theism.

  33. yasin says:

    To Ali sina,

    Before your article was mainly proving doubts about existence of God, now you are more sure to say that God exists but still searching and that happened to you because of near death experiances cases.

    What i dont understand as you say God is jesus or who ever why this God has kept quite when false religions was used i his name knowing very well it will create long term hate between humans, he kept quite when innocent were beaheded and genocided in the name of religion and politics.
    test
    And he kept quite when people are dying without any mistakes with cancers and other diseases suffering pains.

    Now i know you will say that all these are trials by jesus or God, i think now you have fear of death thats why God is important its normal , death is scary.

    But even i take your explanation as trials , So can a merciful God like jesus or anyone suffers you with pain and diseases to make you success in his foolish test.

    Mr Sina, we all love to beleive in a savior but unfortunately its a bad news if we find that God exist but kept quite in these all bloodsheds and rapes just to test our ans..

    Thanks…

  34. Commoner says:

    Who knows Mr Sina, one day science (humans) may find a way to measure consciousness as well! Until a few decades ago people believed in many things – for e.g. lunar eclipse is caused by snake (Demi god Raghu in Hinduism) swallow ing the moon. Still some people do in India.

    Humans didnt have any clue how brain works until recently. Now we know at least something about it. So it is possible that consciousness also will be deciphered.

    The term materialist is used iwith negative canotations recently. Spiritualists consider themselves superior to material ists like a theist does for an atheist. In fact materialists are realists and practical who just cant stand the mumbo jumbo of spirits, super -conscience.

  35. Ra says:

    I believe in Michelangelo.

  36. Phoenix says:

    Fozol says:Obviously we hardly got those answers and this is the point where our imagination came into action. From practical experience we knew nothing can be created on its own. We tried to apply this cardinal rule on the genesis of this universe. “If there is a creation there must be a creator.” And obviously that creator who possessed the might of creating the whole universe is far superior to any of the human we ever knew. This is how the idea of a superhuman species or God came into being//

    The inference seems to be a rational one,even according to Atheist standards since it’s based off practical experience;ie. something cannot come from nothing.But you reject this,why?
    ===
    After imagination here comes our creativity. We used our creativity to promote the ideas of God into an organize religion. And this is the point where we have taken it too far.//
    Here the Atheist objects when the concept is taken to it’s full logical conclusion.If there exists a God who authored the mathematical laws by which our universe is constructed,then such a God must be rational and consistent as is his laws.And surely such a Being would allow man,a rational being, to discover truth via logic.
    ===
    There is a God, who requires continuous coaxing in order to be in a festive mood. His complacency promise great rewards in both temporal and celestial life.On the other hand his wrath will cause ineffable sorrows and suffering on earth as well as in the afterlife. //

    This has no bearing on whether God exists or not.It is an oversimplistic and primitive understanding of theodicies.
    ===
    We used our creativity to create heaven and hell as our ultimate destination beyond the boundary of death, and it will be decided on the basis of complacency or wrath of our imaginary God. And that’s the point when various rituals started to emerge//

    This Atheist cannot prove his assertion that heaven and hell are human constructs.Different religions may have different interpretations of these concepts but the core aspects remain the same.
    ===
    Again from our practical experiences we can’t find an unmixed good in anything. Where there’s a good thing, there must be a bad stuff lurking around. Each of our emotional feelings have equal and opposite feeling to counterpoise. Like happiness-sadness, joy-sorrow, revelry-depression thriving-suffering etc. So does every other thing in this universe. Like Light-darkness, rigidity-fragility, heat-cold etc. So why not the God have an equal and opposite competitor? We already assumed God to be an assortment of all good attributes. So his competitor should be a diabolic evil, a wicked abomination. This is how Satan was created. And these all are due to the awesomeness of our creativity.//

    Another misunderstanding of theism.Satan is not the opposite of God.Satan’s the opposite of an angel of Light.
    ===
    It’s okey that many of us can’t get pleased with the truth and seek complacency in historic lies and fallacies. Many of us have such a high self esteem that they aren’t ready to except the obvious truth. They can’t simply accept that their whole existence will someday be demolished by death.So they try to console themselves believing in imaginary afterlife, which is more promising than their current condition. If they simply find salvation in it, then who the hell I am to stand against it? If they wanna live their whole life by deceiving themselves then it’s their personal choice and I don’t give a shit about that.//

    You have provided no proof that theists believe in God because they fear death.Many theists have come to believe because that’s where logic has taken them.Yet,you have not adressed any of the philosophical arguments for God.
    ===
    But my contradictions with religion begin when they try to impose their own believe on me, When they try to judge me from their own perspectives, When they tell me how to lead my own life, when they invade in my bedroom and speak against my sexual orientation, when they violate animal welfare and arrange sacred rituals and sacrifices, when they say I will burn in hell for eternity only for not believing their fallacies, when they hack my friends to death for revealing truth that debunk with their lies, when they incarcerate women within veils and imprison them in their own house, when they reply rationalism with terrorism, when they spread hatred and wage war, When they kill and get killed out of insanity, when they impede against the progress of science and spread ignorance, finally after doing all these shit when they claim themselves to be the best human and declare their dogma to be the peaceful religion//

    Your beef is then with Islam because that’s what’s being described above.Yet,you have deceptively used the term religion broadly as to include all faiths,especially Christianity and then you use Islam to tarnish those other religions.Shame on you.
    ===
    This is the moment when I throw my shits at their face//

    And the Atheist cannot help but to eventually expose his juvenile antics,because that’s when he most likely adopted Atheism.
    You would think this Atheist would have used logical reasoning and factual arguments against his opponents,since that’s the worldview they claim to adopt – but no,the Atheist throws shit instead,and his entire post is testimony to that.

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