The Declaration of Peaceful Intent

ECAW

ECAW is an Englishman who started looking into Islam after the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby in 2013....and the more he looked the worse it got. He blogs at ecawblog

5 Responses

  1. ECAW's blog says:

    Jon – My data sample has now risen to 3, all with the same result. You know what they say, “Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action”.

    Go on, give it a go.

  2. ECAW's blog says:

    Jon – O Ye of little faith!

    Yes, we all know about ditching oaths, “war is deceit”, taqiyya etc. That is why I, and everyone I’ve discussed it with expected Qadri to just take the short cut and lie through his teeth. But I was astounded that he didn’t. Why, I don’t know. Richardson (who wrote a biography of Mohammed) and his ex-Muslim pals reckoned there would be limits to taqiyya and with a data sample of one so far they haven’t been proved wrong yet. I also had a similar result with a data sample of one. I was having a long and very civilised internet discussion with someone who appeared to be a moderate Muslims’ moderate Muslim. I decided to ask him if he would agree with the Declaration and I never heard from him again.

    Rather than dismiss it out of hand, I hope people will at least try it out with Muslims they are in contact with. Then we’ll know for sure.

    As for the legal side of things, that is obviously a non-starter at the moment but in ten or twenty years (or five) when it has become clear even to our doltish leaders that we are in a winner takes all conflict for Western civilisation and our grandchildrens’ futures, who knows how our attitudes to human rights may change.

    Here is a quote which made a more lasting impression on me than any other I can think of to do with Islam. It is from the exiled Chaldean Catholic Archbishop of Mosul, Amel Shimoun Nona:

    “Our sufferings today are the prelude of those you, Europeans and Western Christians, will also suffer in the near future. I lost my diocese. The physical setting of my apostolate has been occupied by Islamic radicals who want us converted or dead. But my community is still alive.

    Please, try to understand us. Your liberal and democratic principles are worth nothing here. You must consider again our reality in the Middle East, because you are welcoming in your countries an ever growing number of Muslims. Also you are in danger. You must take strong and courageous decisions, even at the cost of contradicting your principles. You think all men are equal, but that is not true: Islam does not say that all men are equal. Your values are not their values. If you do not understand this soon enough, you will become the victims of the enemy you have welcomed in your home”.

  3. Jon MC says:

    @Richard: entirely concur. Unless Muslims become prepared to “own up” to the less savoury aspects of their past then change is very unlikely because such a refusal indicates that they see nothing wrong with it, which explains much of the present violence of course and it a predictor for future violence as well.

    @ECAW
    I have major reservations about this sort of initiative on the simple basis that the Koran tells Muslims that their oaths can be abrogated in favour of something better.
    K2:224-5 2:224 Do not make Allah a hindrance, through your oaths, to being pious and Allah-fearing, and putting things right between men. Surely Allah is All-hearing, All-knowing.Allah will not take you to task for a slip in your oaths; but He will take you to task for what your hearts have earned; and Allah is All-forgiving, All-clement. Thus if your oath is a “hindrance … yo being pious and Allah-fearing” (i.e. being a “true-believer) or in your heart you are not “intending” your oath you will not be “held to account” for it.
    K16:94 “And make not your oaths a means of deception among yourselves,…” thus oaths to other Muslims are to be kept, but implicitly those to non-Muslims can be “deception”.

    Thus I suspect that many “Mumin” would cheerfully sign not meaning a bit of it.
    And it could in any case only work if:
    [1] the Country instituting such a decree had a VERY robust deportation process (which NO western Country has, thanks to international Human Rights laws which ONLY the west obeys!) and
    [2a] Could find a Country willing to take them (which in light of [1] you couldn’t) or
    [2b] simply had a policy of dumping them on a remote part of someone’s coast.

    Thus I find the idea practically useless.

  4. Richard says:

    Unfortunately future violence is not the only problem. Muslims need to:
    1) Own up to and acknowledge past violence and make reparations for it.
    2) Stop making demands for special food, prayer rooms etc.
    3) Treat their women better.
    4) Allow other faiths to practise and perform missionary work on their terrotries.
    5) Abandon Apostasy and blasphemy laws.

  5. sammy says:

    Like all Muslims Mr Kadri distances himself from the violent verses in the Quran, by blaming interpretation, as all Muslims do, even though the Quran is viewed as the verbatim words of the Islamic god,Allah,for the guidance and benefit of mankind, together with the ways and example of its prophet Mohammed, whose life is exemplary to all Muslims, for all times and places.

    Well Mr Kadri,Muslim scholarship has codified these violent verses by putting them in the Islamic Manual of Jurisprudence called the Reliance of the Traveller.

    If Muslim scholarship cannot get their own faith right, what hope is there for the likes of you?

    Reliance of the Traveller:
    [Section o9.0, page 599]
    “Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word “mujahada”, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self, (nafs), which is why the Prophet said as he was returning from jihad, “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.”
    o9.0 JIHAD
    (O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion…
    The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:
    (1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);
    (2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89);
    (3) “Fight the idolators utterly” (Koran 9:36);
    and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
    “I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;
    and the hadith reported by Muslim,
    Sahih Muslim Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:
    “To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.

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