Oldest Quran Discovery

Jake Neuman

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8 Responses

  1. manfred says:

    The claims to do with the manuscript are not properly substantiated.We have evidence for the age of the PARCHMENT, but NOT THE AGE OF THE WRITING. Skins at that time were frequently re-used. All we can say with certainty is that the text cannot be older than the carbon date of the skins, but there could be hundreds of years between the creation of the skins and the text on it, we simply do not know.

    Also, if you look at the actual text there is something odd: All very old Qur’an texts use Kufic script, This is not in Kufic script but an early form of Arabic. It already has some diacritical marks (dots to distinguish one letter from another), and this was a much later invention. Have a look can you spot the dot defining a nun, for example?

    So, in short, while the skin may be from the time of Mohammed, the writing is a minimum of 250 after his death.

    This, by the way, is not just my conclusion, but also the conclusion by Saudi scholars who have seen the manuscript,.

  2. Jake Neuman says:

    Dear Ahmed:

    Torture on earth and in Hell is one of the 5 pillars of Islam. http://www.godofmoralperfection.com/new-page-74.htm

    Muslim men are sanctioned by God himself to torture and murder kafirs. Chopping off fingers and necks is torture. Remember everyone – these words were spoken by God to Angel Gabriel. What is the fate for all kafirs for not converting to Islam and obeying their evil Muhammad. Not prophet Muhammad. Just Muhammad. Well the most horrific EXTERNAL TORTURE. This is evil. God never spoke these words to Gabriel. Muhammad fabricated the entire Quran.

    Qur’an (8:12) – “Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them.” Also 5;33, 47.4 etc etc.

    Qur’an (22:19-22) – “These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.”

    Qur’an 4:56, says that they will face a continuous cycle of torture in which their skin will be burned off only to be replaced by new skin.

    Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    God would NEVER have anyone tortured in Hell. This is evil to the core. If just ONE WORD of the Quran is immoral evil then the entire Quran is not from God. In just this small sample we have 1000 Quranic verses that are evil and therefore ALL words of these verses would be evil of which there are at least 10,000 words.

    jake Neuman

  3. Jon MC says:

    @Ahmed
    Whilst I agree that those verses can be read in the manner you say – i.e. eschatologically – the verses do NOT say “On the last day garments of fire …”etc.
    Therefore it is possible to read the verses in the way you object to.
    In the entire passage (v.17-24) only v.23 refers explicitly to the “afterlife” whereas v.17,18,24 refer explicitly to this world.
    Thus one cannot say that the passage is purely eschatological and a real-world interpretation of v.19-22 is possible even if it not an orthodox interpretation as per ibn Kathir for example.

    “World has seen …” etc.
    What on earth do you mean?
    Are you referring to the Jews?
    Or do you mean Muslims?
    If the latter: well, yes, we have seen Muslims torturing, killing, raping, robbing, enslaving, murdering etc. for 1400 years and all ‘justified’ by quotations from the Koran, Sunnah and Sharia.
    If that is the clear message bright “like the noonday Sun” then I suggest these words:
    “But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! (Matt.6:23)

  4. ahmed says:

    World have seen the people for whom the Prophets of God have clarified the message like the midday Sun with proof but still they didn’t believe. like as if prophets will show them the Sun in afternoon and tell there is the Sun but still they will say No you are lying.

  5. ahmed says:

    “Muslim men have the divine right to torturing non-Muslims (22.19-22)”
    I will say few thing about this point. Go Back and read it aging. it is not talking about muslim man torturing non-muslim. it is talking about the punishment in the hereafter in the hell. anyone who can read and understand English can see it clearly.
    speak about islam or Christianity or any other religion after studying them otherwise stay quite.

  6. Jon MC says:

    This is a non-event in that it changes little.
    Most critics of Islam are quite happy to accept the “textus receptus” as the Uthmanic recension.
    The preservation (or not) of the Koran matters little – what we have is quite horrible enough to show it comes from other than God.

    The hadith tell us that ol’Mo’s companions wrote the Koran down in fragments on all sorts of material as it was recited.
    Even if this is a fragment of an “original” what does that prove? Only that a fragment of an original has survived.
    Unless we accept a priori that the “preservation of the Koran is a MIRACLE!” then all this can prove is that the parchment – not necessarily the writing – dates to “the time of Mohammed”.
    (For comparison: there are literally thousands of copies, part and complete, of the Bible texts that date to the same time and a century or more earlier.)
    More interesting will be a comparison between this text which Prof David Thomas claimed on the BBC to be “very close” to the textus receptus and the Sana’a manuscripts.

  7. tom says:

    Great way to consolidate facts. Thanks for your time. Gives us a ready reconner guide to address the issue. Great job keep it up.

  8. Muhammed was iliterate and he could neither read or right and the followers that lived that were witness of this pedophile were all slaughtered by muslims because they were fighting over who had the story they wanted and this went on for 150 years… killers killing the killers for Islam…they were and are all madd and horrible and what they found is as questionable as what little they have now and argue and fight over…and who wants to listen to maddmen like them?

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