Maulana Wahiduddin Khan condemns Paris attacks and Ali Sina’s Reply

Ali Sina

Ali Sina is the author of Understanding Muhammad and Muslims.

30 Responses

  1. Ajay says:

    Why Canadian hitting axe on their own legs by giving refuge to Syrian Muslim. Few days after they will start muslim vote bank politics

  2. Thinker says:

    @Praveen Patwari: Missionaries had lured people of Indian by money. But abolition Satee, Thugs and Caste system were also eradicated by them. The demicratic governance also directly from Christian Protestantism. SO those who believe in Democracy in India are politically converted to Christianity. Now no longer only Thakurs are elected as rulers. Even Modi from Non-Khatri Caste became Prime Minister.

    Who converted the mass of India to democracy?

  3. Phoenix says:

    Galatians 3:25 Now that the time for faith is here, the Law is no longer in charge of us”

  4. Phoenix says:

    Phoenix. Dude are you really attributing the freeing of slaves to the Christian faith. How many versus do you want me to quote in the new and old testament and the new testament that condones slavery//

    Indeed I am. Wilberforce and the anti-slavery society are on record for crediting their Christian faith for inspiring the abolitionist movement. The Quakers thought it was their religious duty to free slaves. Now all the pro-slavery verses in the bible does not erase the fact that Christians killed slavery while everyone else just watched.
    ===
    America was and i repeat was great because of great thinking secular people from all over the world who made the US its home//

    I’d really like the names of these great secular people.
    ===
    Or by the way on your last paragraph describing me. I think you think you know too much about how someone else thinks. One size does not fit all//

    I made no personal attack against you, so I have no idea where this is coming from. Regarding “One size does not fit all”, are you professing Ethical Relativism? Whatever is good and bad for some does not apply to all?
    ===
    That is the problem with you bible types. You are quite content to judge and question other folks but when the roles are reversed you don’t like it. I will not discuss this post any further as i do think we are 2 sides of a river that will never meet.//

    Firstly,I did not judge you, and I have never expressed discomfort when questioned. In fact I eagerly embrace debates such as these.
    ===
    However i will say this why do Christians ignore everything from the God that slayed every first born Child in Egypt to all other horrors in the Bible. It is obviously their for all to read and yet you ignore it. Why ?//

    It’s not that huge of a mystery. Christians ignore most of the OT because their bible tells them to. See here:

    -Ephesians2:15 *abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims*, that he might create in himself one new person[i] in place of the two, thus establishing peace”

    -Galatians 3:13 *Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law* by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

    -2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were closed. For to this very day, the same veil remains when they hear the old covenant read. It has not been removed because *only in Christ is it taken away*”

    – Galatians 2:19 For through the law *I died to the law* so that I may live to God”

    -Galatians 3:25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian”

    -Romans. 6:14, “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.”

    -Gal. 5:18, “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.”

    -Rom4:14-15 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless,because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression”

    -Rom7:4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ

  5. madfijian says:

    Phoenix. Dude are you really attributing the freeing of slaves to the Christian faith. How many versus do you want me to quote in the new and old testament and the new testament that condones slavery. America was and i repeat was great because of great thinking secular people from all over the world who made the US its home. Somehow i don’t think that a country which has a large percentage of its people supporting a donkey like Trump is great any longer. A country which allows its police officers to shoot black people like rabid dogs and get away with is great no more.
    I do agree with you about everything you say about Islam however i will maintain that their may be great Christian people in the world perhaps you are one of them and i have also met many great Muslims , Hindus Jews and people of other minority faiths who despite their beliefs are great people but their religions are certainly not great. Their is a u tube video experiment done by 2 German guys who run a program called Dit is Normal. You should search for it and look for the Quran experiment. I think you will than understand what i mean . Or by the way on your last paragraph describing me. I think you think you know too much about how someone else thinks. One size does not fit all. That is the problem with you bible types. You are quite content to judge and question other folks but when the roles are reversed you don’t like it. I will not discuss this post any further as i do think we are 2 sides of a river that will never meet. However i will say this why do Christians ignore everything from the God that slayed every first born Child in Egypt to all other horrors in the Bible. It is obviously their for all to read and yet you ignore it. Why ? .

  6. Phoenix says:

    madfijian,

    What i am saying is that religions are simply man made and no one is better than the other//

    This is demonstrably false. All religions are not only NOT equal but most religions are better than Islam. America is great because of Christianity, not because of Islam. Slavery was abolished because of Christianity not Islam. Christians paved the way for the scientific revolution, not Islam. No other religion has international terror networks attempting to establish religious governments, only Islam does. No other religion has blasphemy laws in place in the 21st century. No other religion kills adulterers in this day and age. Most religions have eradicated their evil practices without the help of external influences.
    ===
    You said:You certainly judged me and wrongly i must say. I am not an atheist//

    Ok, my fault

    You then say: I am a secular humanist with a spiritual side.//

    Ok, not my fault because Secular Humanism is a euphemism for Atheism. There is no spirituality contained in a belief that views reality as purely material. Humanism is a false belief system which accepts all the key premises of Philosophical Materialism but rejects its conclusions. For example, they believe life is purely accidental evolving from random circumstances and yet they also believe life has meaning. Humanists are ironically pro choice yet hold steadfast to the doctrine of Determinism. They believe in subjective moral values and the golden rule simultaneously. They believe in the selfish gene and altruism. Humanists believe humans are intrinsically good but they also believe in the Darwinian concept of survival of the fittest. Humanism is wishful thinking, attributing magical qualities to the material realm.

  7. madfijian says:

    Phoenix. Have you read through my posts and comprehended what i am saying here. I think Ali Sina understood what i am trying to say. I am not judging anyone in fact even while using the Seventh day Adventist church as an example i said you judge for your self even though the formation of the belief system was clearly illogical. What i am saying is that religions are simply man made and no one is better than the other.
    If one thinks otherwise than they have not gone through the evidence or are brainwashed. You certainly judged me and wrongly i must say. I am not an atheist. I have studied death bed visions, EVP phenomena, NDE’S, Medium ship, kundali based healing etc etc. I have attended seances of physical medium ship and seen phenomena that is difficult to explain through science.
    I am sure their is something going on spiritually and i am fairly positive their is a Universal creator. My problem is i this i do not know who or what it is that has created the Universe. It is simply to complex for me to comprehend completely. For example if their is a creator who created the creator. Unlike the religious apologists i am content and unashamed to say i do not know. I do not live my life bounded by man made conditions nor do i push the idea of one faith being better than another as this would be factually incorrect as they all have huge flaws and copious amounts of blood on their hands. I am a secular humanist with a spiritual side. I am not sure if their is a word to describe folks like me yet.
    The website at least in my point of view was created to support Apostates and expose Islam for what it is, a vile creation of a barbaric heathen called Mohammad not for the promotion of other faiths who at some point in time justified their barbarism the same way Islam does today.

  8. Phoenix says:

    madfijian “I would think that this website is for ex Muslims like myself and i am forever grateful to Ali Sinha for his initiative but please don’t come here with an evangelical, one is better than the other message. You are insulting our intelligence. This post is not meant for anyone in particular. I have just been reading in this thread and others how folks are criticizing Islam and in the same breath promoting another faith as being better. It defeats the purpose of this website.”

    It never fails to surprise me how Atheists are unable to spot their incoherent reasoning. You are guilty of the very accusation you label against others. This is called self-refuting. It happens when a claim undermines its own criteria. For example: “It’s wrong to judge”, “Judgemental people are bad”, “Never say never”. When this fallacious reasoning is spotted then one has to discard the argument as being invalid. In your entire post you have been evangelizing your own secular ideas, claiming them to be superior yet disparaging others for evangelizing their ideologies.

  9. Phoenix says:

    I know that the Scandinavian countries are considered the epitome of Atheist ideals. But this is not entirely an accurate portrayal of Atheism for reasons I’ll share below. The more accurate portrayal of Atheism are nations like Estonia, with the highest percentage of irreligious folk than any western nation and of course North Korea and China with the largest Atheist populations than any other countries.

    -Did you know that most scandinavians are members of the Lutheran church. Norwegians have the highest membership than any other nation in the world with an 86% membership

    – Did you know teaching Christianity is public schools are compulsory. Here’s an excerpt from the Norwegian Education Act: ““The object of primary and lower secondary education shall be, in agreement and co-operation with the home, to help to give pupils a Christian and moral upbringing, to develop their mental and physical abilities, and to give them good general knowledge so that they may become useful and independent human beings at home and in society.”

    – Yes, church attendance is low but that’s partially due to church membership tax. And yes, Atheism is growing rapidly, unfortunately so is Islam with the help of Atheists of course.

  10. Ajay says:

    @Ali Sina

    It is only goodness (called “Dharma” by ancient Indians) matters not religion. Religions are man made. But I am not convince about NDE stories. Jesus was highly evolved soul having not hatred for anyone & wished for welfare for all.

    God, Souls, and prakariti (Prakrit which is inert entity having no feelings from which all gross and subtle body made) trinity of these are eternal and everlasting as per ancient Indian philosopher. In Vedic philosophy it is explained like this there is tree and two bird sitting on its branch. One bird eating the fruit of this tree and other is only watching all this. Thus, Tree is (Prakriti) the bird eating fruit of tree (prakriti) is soul and the other bird who watching all this not eating the fruit of tree is God (Supreme soul). Prakariti is material cause of this universe.

    God is an Eternal, Conscious, Formless, all-pervading, all-blissful entity.
    Souls are also eternal, Conscious, formless but not blissful & all-pervading. Soul depends on the God for bliss.

    http://www.oocities.org/vedicdharma/books/english-books/questbook/quest-chap1.html

  11. Ali Sina says:

    madfijian

    I thought like you only two years ago. I now believe in God and yes that it thanks to NDE. Now discovering that God exists was not an easy thing because, just like you I had all the wrong ideas about God. But I have so far read over 800 stories of NDE and watched hundreds of videos. From what I understand, God is real but religions are all manmade. People who come back after meeting God say He never questioned them about their religion. He does not care what humans believe. So you are very much right about the silliness of religious zealots. These people who went to other world say Jesus is the king of heaven but I read stories of non-Christians, atheists and even Muslims who said they went to heaven and man of them also met Jesus or even saved by him from Hell.

    Although I now read the Bible and believe in contains many hidden truths, I do not owe my spiritual awakening to this book. I suggest you ignore all religions and religious books and only read the stories of NDE. Read many of them. I am sure you will eventually come to believe in God and also in Jesus. Many Christians don’t know Jesus. I read many Christians who had NDE and upon their return they do not go to their church anymore but have found a greater understanding of Jesus.

  12. madfijian says:

    I find it absolutely worrisome that some folks who come here and purport to be Anti Islam are either Hindu apologists or Christian apologists. I was a Muslim and during my journey out of Islam studied all faiths. While i absolutely abhor Islam for its barbaric and plain dumb and inhumane ideology i do not think that any of the other faiths are any better. They all resolutely believe that they are the answer to the worlds problems. They all believe that they are the only key to heaven without a shred of evidence to support any of their claims. And worst of all they all have blood on their hands in gallon loads.
    Their is this holier than thou attitude that somehow Jesus is the answer. I got news for you Christians. He is not coming to rescue you. He was and is not God if indeed he was a person at all. The 2 Bibles are probably the most ludicrous,illogical and inconsistent books ever written. Has anyone ever wondered why the Quran is so violent and where Mohammed got all his freaking prophets from. The old testament. The Quran is simply a more draconian copy of the old testament. I give you a classic example of illogical Christians. The Seventh Day Adventist Church was started by a preacher called William Miller who was a former Baptist. He started the new Christian Sect around the early 1800’s on the firm belief that Jesus would come on the 22nd Of Oct 1844. The great rapture would happen and the world would end and the holy ones would be in the kingdom blah blah blah. Well it is 2015 and nothing has happened and yet the faith is as strong as ever hell even the dumbest Presidential candidate in US history i.e. in my opinion is a seventh day Adventist. Ben Carson and he actually has support. One would think that after the prediction “did not happen Millers followers would have said this is stupid and the movement would have died” NO. I leave you to make up your mind about this. I can write a 1000 page book on all the illogical and inconsistent beliefs and writings in all the big 4 religions and yet people still follow. It is also very clear that the most religious countries seem to have the most amount of trouble. The Scandinavians are the most Godless people on the planet yet on all human and social development scales they consistently outshine everyone else by miles.

    My point is simple. The sooner we get rid of all organized religious beliefs from this planet the better it is for all of us. I know something spiritual is going on based on NDE’s and other empirical evidence that most of us have studied. Their is however no way to be sure and only after death will all of us really know. Until than i find it really disturbing that their is a God who sits their planning our daily lives and preparing punishment for every human natural thing that we do at least as per the organized religions of this world. I especially find it disturbing that he seems to be more worried about what we do naked than at any other time as their seems to be a particular taboo around sexuality in all of the big 4 organized faiths. Disturbing indeed. Somehow i just don’t think a God would be this sick in the head.
    I would think that this website is for ex Muslims like myself and i am forever grateful to Ali Sinha for his initiative but please don’t come here with an evangelical, one is better than the other message. You are insulting our intelligence. This post is not meant for anyone in particular. I have just been reading in this thread and others how folks are criticizing Islam and in the same breath promoting another faith as being better. It defeats the purpose of this website.

  13. Vishal Kumar says:

    These muslim are terrorist they did not spare even their prophet. They killed the muhammad also how can the leave others?

  14. raka says:

    He is not going to reply as he heads the gang in India which tries tooth and nail to justify the centuries long tyranny misrule loot zaziya rape torture forced conversion … name a bad thing for humanity and islam has it and boosts…..
    This is to be understood that there is no time left for reasoning and rhetoric and if anyone still follows islam than it is for a simple reason that he is bad. You follow a bad thing only if you are bad and you want things which are not yours …

  15. raka says:

    Regarding the video of those Nepalese chaps, well money has a lot of power and if paid in abundance, his wife can produce another child without following the age old ritual of copulation. Shame on those scoundrels but more on those who propagate a blatant lie like this

  16. Ron says:

    @Vishal Kumar,
    Could you please elaborate on your post? It is not clear what you mean.

  17. Kaveh says:

    Mr Sina you are the voice of billions of billions Ex-Muslims(Muslims) in last fourteen century either they murdered or Alive in which they hate Islam and leaders (Allah).

  18. Kaveh says:

    Any honest person who reads Quran and real Islam history they can see what ISIS do or says it comes from fourteen century Islam leaders what they did to everybody else and what Islam says in Quran . Isis is closest Islamic group to fourteen century Islam ideology .since 90% of so “called Muslims which most of this majorities never accepted Islam as their religion because they were educated those who are not educated accepted Islam for last 40 years they started to look for other religions (under -ground churches ) in those Muslim countries which Muslim leaders (Allah in Islam) have power but in Ex Russian states which Muslim leaders have no political power 70% of Muslims leaved Islam for other religions .If Muslim leaders apologist in west would not lie to their people for personal gains .there would not be an Islam because Islam like other religions do not respect life and humanity .

    Kaveh

  19. Vishal Kumar says:

    @Ron

    Muslim are most peaceful people, Muhammad was messenger of peace and Allah is God of peace. Say Allahu Akabar. Hindu are worst people of world then comes jews, then number of Christian. Hindu follow Manu Samariti according to which one man allowed one woman, no burqa, no penalty for criticizing hindu belief, freedom of worship, no compulsion in believing in God, messenger, guru and any prophet, Hindu made the President a Muslim (Abdul Kalam Azad), allowed the muslim to live in their country in spite of two nation theory of India & Pakistan based on religion. Truly, Hindu are worst people And India is worst country for Muslim. No Muslim safe in un-Islamic country like USA, France, India, U.K. on other hand Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran is most favourable nation for Muslims.

  20. Ron says:

    In the 1920’s and until the run up to WW2 the Nazis used and fed people on German pride, Aryan superiority and blamed all evils on Jews and minorities. Many people bought into the propaganda and never checked whether there was any truth in it as Jews, minorities, gypsies etc. were rounded up and sent to gas chambers. They bought into the government and hardline opinions and never questioned it.

    In India similarly the Hindu brigade is doing the propaganda that Christians are doing conversions using money from outside. The plain truth is that Christians are being persecuted in the rural parts, villages, their houses are being burnt. The Hindu fanatics do not want other Hindus (lower castes, other castes) to be emancipated and are therefore burning churches, attacking pastors/priests and persecuting Christians.

    According to International African students who have lived and studied in India as well as in other countries say they have faced more racist remarks in India than anywhere else in the world.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article/india-is-racist-and-happy-about-it/250317
    http://www.firstpost.com/india/like-disease-citizens-african-nations-talk-racism-face-india-2249316.html

    According to global slavery index, India has the highest number of people under slavery (14.2 million ) and considering the population if you go by index (ratio to population) then India ranks number 5 even above Pakistan.
    http://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/

    The Manu Smriti Hindu laws which was practiced since ages and is being advocated by the Hindutva forces is the most apartheid document endorsing and/or condoning slavery, fornication, bestiality, homosexuality, pedophilia, adultery against fellow Hindus (but of lower castes).
    If you ever need proof, do let me know.

    On religious persecution India is listed 21 among the countries persecuting Christians. It is considered worse than China . Malaysia, Egypt, Indonesia, Bangladesh but of course better than Pakistan and Afghanistan.
    This is list made buy open doors usa.
    https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/

    The good thing about India is that it is a democracy and it is surviving because of its diversity. Obama said that if you Talibanize India then it will not survive. Stop believing in the propaganda of the Hindu fanatics.
    India is the only country where Hindus discriminate against other Hindus leave alone the minority Christians who are discriminated in rural areas. In cities there is no visible discrimination against minorities

    The local missionary in rural India is poor, may own a cycle, is not funded from outside India gets beaten up by fanatics, is sometimes hospitalized but cured but still persists because he does not want people to die without knowing Christ.

    Please watch this video

  21. pran says:

    Stanley, In India innocent and poor hindus being coverted using money from outside.If the conversion theory is not in mind,Bharat / India is heaven for everybody-irrespective of relegion.
    Thanks

  22. maria says:

    Thanks for such a quick and thorough response.

  23. Ali Sina says:

    Maria,

    When Shiites say they don’t follow Bukhari and Muslim they mean in matters of jurisprudence. For Sunnis these books establish the sunna of their prophet and therefore should be used as auxiliary to the Quran.

    The Shiites have their own books of hadith collected by Muhammad Baqir Majlesi (1616–1698 AD). Look at the date this guy lived and think about the absurdity of the Shiites’ claim that their hadith are more authentic than those collected by Bukhari (810–870) and his student Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj (817-874). Both werePersians.

    Muslims follow these collectors of hadiths in matter of law. As far as the biography of Muhammad is concerned there is no disagreement between Shiites and Sunnis. The biography of Muhammad is based on the Sira of Ibn Ishaq, the Book of Raids by aal Waqidi, the Book of Classifications by Ibn Sa’d and the History of Tabari. These are the only original sources and all Muslims rely on them to learn about the life of Muhammad.

  24. charlie says:

    Is there no end to their deceptions?

  25. maria says:

    I have Shia Theological question. I was listening to a local radio station that was talking about the theology of ISIS and a shia muslim called in and stated that shia muslims do not consider Buhkari and Muslim as valid hadiths. If this is true and they do not consider them as authentic, then what hadith do the Shia follow? What narrations do the Shia consider valid? Do they follow Mohammad’s biography or do they have a different version of Mohammad’s biography? Can anyone explain this to me? Thanks in advance.

  26. Ra says:

    Rest in peace, Diesel. Death to Islam.

  27. Praveen Patwari says:

    Stanley without knowledge do not comment. In India Christian missioneries use their money power to convert hindus to chrishanity and your target zone is illiterate finacially weaker section. Difference between you and muslim community is they use sword for conversation and you people usr money

  28. Mumin Salih says:

    ( this was posted in the wrong place, apology for reposting)

    Excellent rebuttal by Ali.

    May I express my views about this verse because once I wrote about it.

    Some Muslims may argue that some orders given to the Jews also apply to Muslims, if repeated in the Quran. However, verse 5:32 on its own, even without the verse after it, is far from peaceful. It is the exclusion in the verse that people tend to forget.

    The verse says: “Killing a soul EXCEPT FOR REVENGE OR FASAD ( un Islamic actions, like eating pork, dressing like Europeans, listening to music, homosexuality ..) IN THE LAND IS LIKE KILLING ALL MANKIND…”

    Maulana used the word punishment, it should be in revenge.

    In plain language: Killing is forbidden except
    In revenge
    Un islamic practices, potentially includes all non Muslims life style. The word fasad is not a well defined word. It is Arabic for rot. So it means rotten things, anything not nice, anything that Muslims consider bad. so it is up to Muslims to decide..

    Basically it is a licence to kill
    This what the leaders of the Islamic state would day if you confront them with the verse.

  29. stanley says:

    great work Ali, keep it up..recently certain Hindu religious and political leaders were advocating the same crap like the muslims- India for Hindus only, that no one be allowed to convert, that Hindus need to have more children and that minorities should be forced to reduce having more children, so as to prop up the Hindu population stats…Groups of Hindus go to villages and forcibly convert poor Christians to Hinduism or face death, churches are destroyed, their homes burnt, women raped..the very same Isis spirit in the so called most tolerant religion in the world!! And ironically. no backlash from the government, same as in Muslim lands…India’s day of karma is coming….

  30. Vishal Kumar says:

    Ali Sina,

    Sir, you are great as always. I always recommend to my friends if you want to understand Islam in short span read Ali Sina debates. There are very few people who have been blessed with such a sharp wisdom like you. I always wish for such sharp intellect and try to gain it.

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