Is Banning Muslim Entry to America Unconstitutional?

Ali Sina

Ali Sina is the author of Understanding Muhammad and Muslims.

35 Responses

  1. why? says:

    Golden rule:

    Does ONLY Christianity have positive golden rule?

    en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Golden_Rule

    Hinduism

    O King, dharma is the best quality to have, wealth the medium and desire (kāma) the lowest. Hence, (keeping these in mind), by self-control and by making dharma (right conduct) your main focus, treat others as you treat yourself.” (Mahābhārata Shānti-Parva 167:9)(POSITIVE GOLDEN RULE)

    Jainism (POSITIVE GOLDEN RULES)

    In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self.
    — Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara

    A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.
    — Sutrakritanga, 1.11.33
    ====================================

    I hope this proves that pious christian LIES are as usual falsehood as self-glorification, just as their master jeebus himself relied in self-glorification.

  2. madfijian says:

    Ron you simply do not get it. For me Christ is nothing simply nothing. He is like father Christmas or in the Christian Gods case the bogey men I do not base my being good or bad on what so called Christ said. I live a very rich and fulfilling life without Christ. I am a loving father husband community worker businessman and generally a good person. I am at peace with myself despite not having Christ in my life. I resent the fact that having lived a good life being kind and generous and loving your Christ would condemn me to hell for eternity for simply not believing in him because their is no independent hard evidence of him anywhere except the “holy book”s. That is absurd and if you want to be a weed in the Christan Gods bloody garden than dude be my guest. I would rather side with the “devil” if you may at least he is not a bloody sadist.

  3. Ron says:

    Imagine you are a gardener and maintaining a garden which is full of fruit trees, flower plants, grass, weeds, trees, thorny plants, poisonous plants, decorative plants etc.

    Don’t you as a gardener have a right to remove the weeds and poisonous plants, or allow them to grow until a vine depending on it is grown, re-arrange or transplant the decorative plants, cut a tree, re-decorate the garden, allow the growth or plant more grass/ trees.

    If these vegetation could talk they would be saying that this gardener is so unkind, so unjust, so cruel, so partial etc. But the gardener knows that he is doing the right thing as he owns the garden and the gardener knows what is best to be allowed to grow, pruned, trimmed or plucked out and thrown or burnt, or plucked out and re-planted or stored somewhere else.

    We humans are the vegetation and God is the gardener. God is just and does the right thing. This allegorical explanation may appeal to you if you are on the fence and trying to understand theism, sin and justice from a Christian perspective.

    If you have Christ in you then you will feel the compassion and hunger when you pass a homeless or hungry destitute on the way and you will be moved to stop and give him a handout whether it be food or money.
    No amount of atheistic upbringing can move you to compassion unless you have Christ in you.

    With atheism you can be good and happy and may be tolerant towards non-Christians but inwardly you will dislike, disdain or have some degree of hate towards Christ or Christian and you will not know it nor profess it.

  4. madfijian says:

    I meant 842 versus in the Bible.

  5. madfijian says:

    Granted evil is done by humans to humans. Do you want me to really list down the many horrors committed in the name of Christianity or can you goggle it yourself. I am not defending atheism. I am not an Atheist. Personally i believe that people are people and they can either be good or bad. If Atheism is the root cause of evil as you seem to imply than why do priests sodomize and rape. If an average Christian did these i would say OK they may not that religious and are not true Christians but a priest????. Come on Ron you seriously think that religion is a deterrent to evil. Look around you men read history and the news. You surely cant be that blind.

    I do in fact believe that their may be a higher spiritual being. I just do not believe in any of the current Gods that is being paraded as supreme in the 2000 or so religions practiced today. What you are avoiding is the obvious blood lust of the God that you and the dumb Muslims seem to worship and the very significant similarities between Islam and Christianity. Christians are very quick to label Islam as violent which it is. My point is it is not significantly different from the religion you practice because everything from stoning to cutting of the hands is also prescribed in the bible.Do you want verses and Chapters or can you find these yourself as well. You fail to debunk any of the above quotes that i have given you because their is nothing to debunk as they are from the Bible which you consider inspired by God.In case you did not know their are about 842 violent and cruel versus in the Quran as compared to 333 in the Quran. It really never fails to amaze me as to how otherwise smart decent and well meaning people like you Ron seem to be brain washed by “faith” to the extent that you cant see the obvious. I was like that once as well not anymore but i still laugh at myself. Maybe you will also one day. MAY THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE.

  6. Ron says:

    Theodore Beale quotes in his book:

    Apparently it was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism … .there have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm … These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal acts of the sort committed by Stalin and Mao …
    The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined.

    The historical record of collective atheism is thus 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity’s worst and most infamous misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition. It is not only Stalin and Mao who were so murderously inclined, they were merely the worst of the whole Hell-bound lot. For every Pol Pot whose infamous name is still spoken with horror today, there was a Mengistu, a Bierut, and a Choibalsan, godless men whose names are now forgotten everywhere but in the lands they once ruled with a red hand.

    Is a 58 percent chance that an atheist leader will murder a noticeable percentage of the population over which he rules sufficient evidence that atheism does, in fact, provide a systematic influence to do bad things? If that is not deemed to be conclusive, how about the fact that the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them. If one considers the statistically significant size of the historical atheist set and contrasts it with the fact that not one in a thousand religious leaders have committed similarly large-scale atrocities, it is impossible to conclude otherwise, even if we do not yet understand exactly why this should be the case. Once might be an accident, even twice could be coincidence, but fifty-two incidents in ninety years reeks of causation!

    Its not a couple (i.e. two) of atheists who caused the largest percentage of human killings in the world but according to the above statistics there is a 58% chance of an atheist leader committing mass murder.

    Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom because when as a Christian you know that you are accountable for your choices even after you leave this world then you will tend to right thing even when nobody sees.

    Madalyn Murray O’Hair was a foremost atheist here in US. She bought up her kids strictly atheist. Her son discovered Christianity and became a pastor.

    Stalin’s daughter was brought up as an atheist left her atheism and became a Christian.

    Voltaire said “All sects are different, because they come from men; morality is everywhere the same, because it comes from God”
    Voltaire also said ” if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him”
    May the peace of Christ be with you.

  7. madfijian says:

    Ron I will agree with you that social environments and how one is raised shapes future behaviors. It is for instance a well know fact that a child raised in an abusive violent home is more likely to be a criminal and a violent individual when he or she grows up. Their is no disputing that. My argument is that kids who know no better at the earliest onset of their lives have the ability to discern right from wrong. This is at a stage when adult influence is minimal at best. Their have been studies done in the UK and in the US which are well documented to show that in fact religion makes people more immoral and i have given the links to these studies in one of my earlier posts on another topic. I have raised my daughter free of religion and she is probably the most loving and caring person i know. While on that topic. Have you really read your bibles and i mean both of them. Most Christians when confronted with the violent immorality of the Old testament simply say oh but we follow the new testament. You see this the fallacy of this argument. The old testament is central to Christianity as much as the New one. Now lets say for arguments sake that we do put aside the OT and forget about the fact that it was supposed to be the word of the same God who later came down to earth as his own son and look at the NT. I AM LISTING BELOW THE REFERENCES FROM THE NT TO VIOLENCE AND the obvious support that Jesus gave to the laws of the OT. I am only listing from Mathew and Mark. The whole is to long.

    Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned “with unquenchable fire.” 3:10, 12

    Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

    Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

    Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

    Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 7:19

    “The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 8:12

    Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: “Let the dead bury the dead.” 8:21

    Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

    Cities that neither “receive” the disciples nor “hear” their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen 19:24). 10:14-15

    Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few “prophecies” in the Bible that has actually come true). “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.” 10:21

    Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and “able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” 10:28

    Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” 10:34-36

    Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. 11:20-24

    Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” 13:41-42, 50

    Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

    “Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.” 15:13

    Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it’s better to be “maimed” than to suffer “everlasting fire.” 18:8-9

    In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: “So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you.” If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35

    “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors.” 18:34

    God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and rents the vineyard to others. 21:33-41

    “Whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.” Whoever falls on “this stone” (Jesus) will be broken, and whomever the stone falls on will be ground into powder. 21:44

    In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn’t have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and “cast him into the outer darkness” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 22:1-14

    The end of the world will be signaled by wars, famines, disease, and earthquakes (6-7). And that’s just “the beginning of sorrows” (8). Next believers will be hated and killed by unbelievers (9), believers will hate and betray each other (10), false prophets will fool people (11), iniquity will abound and love wax cold (12). But hey, if you make through all that, you’ll be saved (13).

    Only one more thing will happen before the end comes: the gospel will be preached throughout the world (14). Well, that and the abomination of desolations will stand in the holy place (15), many false Christs and false prophets will show great signs and wonders (24), the sun and moon will be darkened and the stars will fall (29), the sign of the son of Man will appear in the sky, everyone on earth will mourn, and then, finally, the great and powerful son of Man will come in all his glory (30).

    Oh, and all these things will happen within the lifespan of Jesus’ contemporaries (34).

    Or maybe not. Jesus was talking about things he knew nothing about (36). (See Mark 13:32.) 24:3-51

    Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

    God will come when people least expect him and then he’ll “cut them asunder.” And “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 24:50-51

    The parable of the cruel and unjust master
    The kingdom of heaven is like a rich man who distributed his wealth to his servants while he traveled. He gave five talents (a talent was a unit of money, worth about 20 years of a worker’s wages) to one servant, two to another, and one to a third. When he returned, the servant with five talents had made five more, the servant with two made two more, but the servant with one talent only had the talent his master entrusted to him. The master rewarded the servants that invested his money (without his permission — what would have happened if the stock market went down during their master’s travels?) and took the talent from the single-talent servant and gave it to the one with ten talents. “For unto every one that hath shall be given .. but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.” Then the cruel and unjust master cast the servant who carefully protected his master’s talent into the “outer darkness: [where] there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 25:14-30

    The servant who kept and returned his master’s talent was cast into the “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 25:30

    Jesus judges the nations. 25:31-46

    Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an “everlasting fire.” 25:41

    Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

    Mark

    Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

    Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

    Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

    Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10

    Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

    God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and gives the vineyard to others. 12:1-9

    Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 14:22-24

    Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don’t will be damned. 16:16

    Luke

    Zechariah asks the angel Gabriel how his wife Elizabeth could become pregnant, since she is “stricken with years.” Gabriel makes him “dumb” just for asking. 1:20

    Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 3:9

    John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned “with fire unquenchable.” 3:17

    Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

    Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants “thrust down to hell” for not “receiving” his disciples. 10:10-15

    Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

    Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves “with many stripes.” 12:46-47

    “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” 13:3, 5

    According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13:23-30

    In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

    Jesus believed the story of Noah’s ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

    Jesus also believes the story about Sodom’s destruction. He says, “even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed … Remember Lot’s wife.” This tells us about Jesus’ knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

    In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn’t sow. The parable ends with the words: “bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me.” 19:22-27

    Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 22:19-20

    Quite frankly Ron i would rather not get my morals from such a blood obsessed God or his son. I am content to make my own moral reasoning and base my decisions on facts and reason. As i said if you really need to read this book and make your moral decisions based on it than “GOD HELP YOU”.

    Have you ever wondered where Islam gets its blood lust from and why they share all the prophets with you except Jesus. Because they copied Christianity. In other words Islam and Christianity are like 2 brothers or friends we see in some horror Movies where one is half mad and the other is gone completely.

    Good luck with your morality.

  8. Ron says:

    @madifjan,

    This pokes hole into your theory that kids know what is right and wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger.
    Robert Thompson and Jon Venables (both ten year olds) tortured and murdered James Bulger (3 yr old) after abducting him from a shopping mall just for the fun of it.

    Cristian Fernandez, a 13-year-old Florida boy, was the youngest person ever charged with first-degree murder in Jacksonville history. Fernandez was charged in 2011 for beating his two-and-a-half-year-old brother to death and sexually abusing his five-year-old half brother.

    In Canada, April 23, 2006, 12-year-old Jasmine Richardson was convinced by her 23-year-old pedophile boyfriend to murder both of her parents. Both parents were stabbed so many times that the father had almost no blood left in his body. Making matters worse, her eight-year-old brother was found dead upstairs with his throat cut.

    Jesse Pomeroy was arrested for the cold-blooded murder of a four-year-old boy. In previous years, Pomeroy spent time tormenting other children. He was first arrested for sexual torture and molestation of seven other boys when he was only 11. After that, he murdered a 10-year-old girl, mutilating her body. He was sentenced to 40 years of solitary confinement.

    Fifteen-year-old Cindy Collier and 14-year-old Shirley Wolf went from petty theft and vandalism to a whole other level. While looking for a target, they knocked on the door of an elderly woman who let them in. The girls turned violent, as Wolf grabbed the woman by the neck while Collier grabbed a knife and gave it to Wolf. Wolf proceeded to stab the woman 28 times. They confessed to the crime, calling it a “kick” and they’d love to do it again.

    In Steuben County, N.Y., 13-year-old Eric Smith murdered, sexually abused and mutilated a four-year-old boy, Derrick Robie. Smith lured Robie to a park, where he strangled him and crushed his head with two large rocks. He proceeded to undress and sodomize Robie with a tree branch. Smith was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to the maximum term for juveniles of nine years to life

    In 2007 eight-year-old Amarjeet Sada led people to the site of where he buried a six-month-old baby after he killed her with a heavy stone. This led to an investigation of two more deaths at the hands of the youth. Sada’s eight-month-old sister and a nine-month-old cousin had suffered the same fate. He strangled his sister and beat the cousin in the head until dead.

    There are many such cases and also about kid street gangs where many are less than 10 yrs and some even 4 years of age and you will find them in Peru, Ethiopia, Brazil, Thailand, South Africa, Columbia etc. Child soldiers in East and West Africa, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Rwanda, Congo and ISIS are well known cases.

    So morality is shaped by our upbringing (parents, guardians, society and environment). There is no morality inside the human DNA.

    Also please note that Carson is regarded as the world’s most renowned brain surgeon (and so not dumb and probably having an IQ more than anyone in this forum). See the move “Gifted hands” it is free on YouTube.
    Trump does not care about political correctness and seems intelligent and smart.

    I support the resettlement of Syrian refugees (and also of refugees of any race or religion or country whose lives are in danger or are being persecuted) in our West provided that they are exhaustively vetted for criminal behaviour.

    Thanks may the peace and love of Christ be with you.

  9. Ron says:

    @madifjan,
    The golden rule
    The “Golden Rule” is the name given to a principle Jesus taught in His Sermon on the Mount.
    What we call the Golden Rule refers to Matthew 7:12: “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” Jesus knew the human heart and its selfishness. In fact, in the preceding verse, He describes human beings as innately “evil” (verse 11). Jesus’ Golden Rule gives us a standard by which naturally selfish people can gauge their actions: actively treat others the way they themselves like to be treated. The Lord said

    Love your neighbor as yourself. Again, we see the implication that people are naturally lovers of self, and the command uses that human flaw as a place to start in how to treat others.

    People universally demand respect, love, and appreciation, whether they deserve it or not. Jesus understood this desire and used it to promote godly behavior. Do you want to be shown respect? Then respect others. Do you crave a kind word? Then speak words of kindness to others. “It is more blessed to give than to receive” (Acts 20:35). The Golden Rule is also part of the second greatest commandment, preceded only by the command to love God Himself (Matthew 22:37–39).

    What is interesting to note about the Golden Rule is that no other religious or philosophical system has its equal. Jesus’ Golden Rule is not the “ethic of reciprocity” so commonly espoused by non-Christian moralists. Frequently, liberal critics and secular humanists attempt to explain away the uniqueness of the Golden Rule, saying it is a common ethic shared by all religions. This is not the case. Jesus’ command has a subtle, but very important, difference. A quick survey of the sayings of Eastern religions will make this plain:

    • Confucianism: “Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you” (Analects 15:23)
    • Hindusim: “This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you” (Mahabharata 5:1517)
    • Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful” (Udanavarga 5:18)

    These sayings are similar to the Golden Rule but are stated negatively and rely on passivity. Jesus’ Golden Rule is a positive command to show love proactively.
    The Eastern religions say, “Refrain from doing”; Jesus says, “Do!” The Eastern religions say it is enough to hold your negative behavior in check; Jesus says to look for ways to act positively. Because of the “inverted” nature of the non-Christian sayings, they have been described as the “silver rule.”
    Jesus Golden rule is prescriptive. (You are prescribed to love and not hate). the Eastern religions and others are prohibitive (Don’t cause pain).

    The command to love is what separates the Christian ethic from every other religion’s ethic. In fact, the Bible’s championing of love includes the radical command to love even one’s enemies (Matthew 5:43–44; This is unheard of in other religions.

    Obeying the Christian imperative to love others is a mark of a true Christian (John 13:35). In fact, Christians cannot claim to love God if they don’t actively love other people as well. “If someone says, ‘I love God’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen” (1 John 4:20). The Golden Rule encapsulates this idea and is unique to the Christian Scriptures.
    Jesus further said (Mathew 5:43-44) “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. No human on earth has said such prescriptive words of love, peace.

  10. madfijian says:

    I have a question addressed to all those who propose a ban on Muslims coming to America. Since Trump did not specify clearly his plans i.e. banned from acquiring US residency or banned from entering the US even on a short visit. Here is the dilemma. I import about $10M of US goods every year and travel to the US quite regularly. I have a Muslim name but am a apostate and an agnostic. How does one know if i am not a Muslim. Will my word be enough. If Ali Sina was not a US resident what would he have to do to prove himself an apostate. This is a very important question. Any answers from Trump lovers.

    Ali I respect and thank you for this blog which was the starting point to me leaving Islam i am however quite shocked that you are supporting a Neanderthal like Trump and the worst case of “dumb” ala Carson who thinks that evolution is a plot by Satan to weaken Christianity. While i despise all religious beliefs i do hold a special dislike for Islam. That said i do not hate your run of the mill everyday Muslims, or Christians or any one else for that matter. I think they are misguided yes but no more than Christians who believe that the Earth is 6000 years old despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary, and who think that people used to talk to snakes and women should be subjected just because they do not have a penis.

    I read Ron’s comments on the Golden rule which most bible types claim as their own. This is totally incorrect. The Golden rule has been in existence since pre Christianity in almost all cultures form China to Egypt. It was popularized in Greece by philosophers of the time like Plato. I agree with Sam that morality is in our DNA and studies have been done in the UK and the US which proves that kids as young as 2 and 3 years know the difference between right and wrong. Seriously Ron if you need a book that was written by bronze aged medieval masochistic old men to tell you that killing someone is wrong dude you need help. I agree with Ron that a couple of atheist killed a hell of a lot more people in recent history than religious folks however these killings where not done in the name of atheism. The killings were part of a greater revolution with far greater political and power implications than the personal religious or non religious beliefs of the perpetrators. Go read your history. Nothing beats direct religious stupidity in making good people absolute animals. The greater the belief the more heinous the crime. This mine is better than yours has to stop and humanity has to become the focal point otherwise this madness that is growing day by day has the potential to destroy humanity. When will religious zealots learn this.

    This is my last post on this blog as this website has gone from being a information base for potential Muslim apostates to a Pro Christian and almost an Evangelical website.

    Thank you Ali Sina and Good luck.

  11. Ron says:

    @Sam
    (Thanks a lot Ra for your moral support.)

    Liberals say they support free speech and tolerate everyone and everyone’s opinion except that they call anyone who disagrees a bigot or racist and hate monger. Anyway Jesus said love your enemies and bless those who curse you.

    We have to understand that where morality comes from and that morality is objective and not subjective. To determine what is morally correct you need to have moral laws based on which you decide what is morally right or wrong.

    For moral laws you need to have a moral law giver. This moral law giver has to be outside the realm of people and should have the highest degree of moral justice. This is where Jesus comes in as the moral law giver.

    In Germany we had a case where a man (victim) had a willingly signed a legal document where he explicitly agreed to undergo torture and have parts of his body eaten (cannibalised) by another man (perpetrator). When arrested and tried for the crime his liberal defence team pleaded and submitted irrefutable proof that it was not a crime of any degree but with explicit consent. The judge having Christian values sentenced him to some years in prison. What is morally correct in this context?

    Also there was another case of two adults twin brothers who used to commit incest (sex ) with each other and no charges were laid as the law did not criminalize homosexuality and since there was no chance of procreation it was considered adult consensual sex. What is morally correct in this context?

    When Woody Allen had sex with his wife’s adopted daughter was it incest. What is morally correct in this context?

    Liberals say that there is no rational moral reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual incest. Liberal further say that personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in incest and not why someone else shouldn’t do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults and that some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and marriage. What is morally correct in this context?

    If you find it difficult to answer the above then you still have hope for Christ can show you how to love people who hate you. It is way different from just tolerating people.

    Moral laws are objective and not relative or subjective. It is either right or wrong and nothing in between.
    When you have Christ in you and then when you see the downtrodden and the destitute you will genuinely feel compassionate to help them physically irrespective of their religion, race, sexual orientation or choice, gender, age, country or disease/affliction. If you are a good atheist you may feel sympathy and tolerance and may help but you will not be passionate and put them ahead of yourself. Christ in you makes the difference.

    Long after Haiti’s devastating earthquake, the secular NGO’s have gone and it is the Christian NGO’s still doing the tremendous work remaining to be done. Even in Iraq/Syria war-torn regions it is the Christian NGO’s doing work in the field among unbelievers despite the hardships and security risks (risk to our own lives) involved which are so great that our governments are afraid to put military boots on the ground and liberals applaud these decisions.

    I just pray that may Christ may show you the right path of love (not just tolerance) as He (Christ) is the way, the truth and life.

  12. Sam says:

    Ra, I hope he/she is. I am just reading the lines here. I do not know the person. Peace and tolerance to all!

  13. Ra says:

    @Sam,
    Please, do not falsely accuse my friend Ron of being full of hatred. Ron is a good man and loves everybody.

  14. Sam says:

    Ron: I start to believe that you are full of hatred. I also feel you have a bad experience with atheists or liberals. Calm down, take a deep breath and enjoy life. Take good care of yourself. I mean it.

  15. Ron says:

    Sam,
    Even Hitler by the way was not a Christian and had plans to destroy Christian influence.

    In 1999, a discovery of 150 bound volumes were found, post-war volumes showing Nazi war crimes, documenting Nazi persecution of religious organizations, especially Christian Churches. In a 108-page outline titled “The Nazi Master Plan”, the British Office of Strategic Services investigators argued that the Nazi regime planned to reduce the influence of Christian churches through a campaign of systematic persecutions. “Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [of church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion,” said the report. The most persuasive evidence came from & systematic nature of the persecution itself.”

    the Nazi master plan from UK govt archives is here. Most of the Nazi top brass were atheists and many of them never repented (Hitler, Himmler, Goering, Geobells, Hess were all atheists who committed suicide and never repented and Bormann, Frick, Rosenberg were atheists who were hanged and they also never repented.)

    http://www.leics.gov.uk/the_nazi_master_plan.pdf

    Hitler used religion but was not religious. His statement
    ‘The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that’s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.”

    Atheists and the secular liberals are against the sanctity of life as they don’t fear God as they don’t believe in God and have been at the forefront in legalizing abortion (killing of the unborn) and legalizing euthanasia (killing of the sick and old).

    When anyone is indoctrinated with atheism and have drunk the liberal kool aid they will not defend the unborn nor defend the old and sick.

  16. Sam says:

    Ron: if Christianity suits you then good for you as long as you are tolerant.
    Phoenix: Sorry, i am not interested in a philosophical discussion.
    For both: i am not promoting atheism nor any religion.
    I just observe that some people are good and others are bad no matter their upbringing. And also, people do change from bad to good and vice versa. Human nature.
    Take care and good luck.

  17. Ron says:

    Sam
    The Golden rule is attributed to Christ as it is in Mathew 7:12 and is prescriptive in nature. Other theistic religions do have similar words but not the same and are prohibitive in nature.

    Atheism never gave this golden rule. The 20th century was the bloodiest century in human history and more people were killed by wars in the 20th century when compared to those killed in all the wars before.
    The biggest killings in 20th century were by atheists. Hitler and Nazis killing of 10 million pale in comparison to killings by Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and also those of Nicolae Ceausescu, Lenin, Trotsky, Kim Jong-II, Hoxha, Mussolini, Than Shwe and many other atheist leaders.

  18. Phoenix says:

    @Sam
    Ron, humans can do evil things no matter their belief or non belief in a deity. There are good religious people and good atheist//

    Sam, you first need to define your notion of good and evil. Secondly, are these concepts relative/subjective or universal/objective?

    //The fact is, religion had its value for people when they were ignorant. But now, there is really no need for religion. I write it again: we do not need a religion to be moral//

    Sam, let’s substitute the word religion for God, because I suspect you may be attempting a semantic ploy. How do you Sam as an irreligious (Atheist) derive your moral principles? You said before morals are seen in nature and by using your brain. This is quite vague and needs an in depth explication. Perhaps you can demonstrate with an example of how morality is seen in nature whilst using your brain.

    //The golden rule suffice and is ingrained in people. However, bad apples exist//

    Sam, are you suggesting that the golden rule can be empirically detected and may be visible inside people’s brains with the use of instrumentation? The fact is that the golden rule is not a a rule of nature or law of physics, it is an intuitive principle and falls outside the Atheist’s axiomatic principle which is Empiricism.

    Do not merely assert your beliefs but demonstrate them with rational justification within your epistemology.

  19. Sam says:

    Ron, humans can do evil things no matter their belief or non belief in a deity. There are good religious people and good atheist …The fact is, religion had its value for people when they were ignorant. But now, there is really no need for religion. I write it again: we do not need a religion to be moral. The golden rule suffice and is ingrained in people. However, bad apples exist.

  20. Ron says:

    Pol Pot and his godless communists (Khmer Rouge) took over Cambodia in April 1975 and ushered in year zero. They killed 2 million in what is known as the Killing fields. Joining him were Nuon Chea , Leng Sary, Kheiu Samphan, Son Sen, Kang Kek lew (also called Comrade Duch) , Ta Mok. All committed atheists communists. They all believed that they were ushering a utopia of a moral state with no god or religion. (By the way according to some historians Pol Pot denied Christ in his early Paris years.). The godless UN, USSR, China and North Vietnam supported Pol Pot in the beginning.

    When they were finally removed from power by the North Vietnamese invasion in Jan 1979 they fled to the jungles bordering Thailand and Cambodia.

    Few journalists met them and saw no remorse in them. Meanwhile Comrade Duch met some missionaries who shared the gospel and salvation message of Christ and this die-hard godless communist became Christian. He showed them the killing fields, pleaded guilty, expressed remorse and testified against himself and his godless comrades. He is a changed man and it is Christ who changed him. He said that if he had known Christ before he would never have participated in the killings.

    Godless Stalin left the seminary and became an atheist and he arguably killed 20-25 million of his own countrymen. Godless Mao killed 40-60 million of his own countrymen.

    All religious leaders are not same. All religions are not same. Without religion, history has shown that the biggest killers of 20 century has been atheism. Atheists like Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot et al have killed more people than any religious bigot in history.

    Nobel Prize winner Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was asked to account for the great tragedies that occurred under the brutal communist regime he and fellow citizens suffered under.

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn offered the following explanation: “Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: ‘Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.’

    Since then I have spend well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: ‘Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.’

    Oscar Wilde was an atheist and lived a hedonistic life and at the end of his life called for a priest and confessed and was remorseful.

  21. Sam says:

    Ron:

    Morality does not need religion. Humans know what is good and what is not by nature and by using our brains. So, you implying that Jesus has the answer to ban homosexuality then you are on the wrong side of humanity.

    Again, in this modern times, morality does not need religion. Le me be clear, I have nothing against someone being religious as long as he/she is tolerant of others and not pushing his/her religious agenda to others.
    I do not agree with laws (against women, homosexuality, finances, education in schools… ) of 1st and 7th century brought by some people (Jesus, Moh…) because the super power (their God) told them so.

    As for Republican versus Democrat (liberal). I have no interest in debating this in this blog. I just know that most of the republican candidates are using Christianity to lure votes and that is where I say that religion should not be mixed with politics and especially religious politicians should not make laws based on religion. Be it Christianity, Islam…

    FYI: Lincoln and the republican party of that time was more liberal than now. And Democrats of that time were the bigots. Their ideologies switched, I believe in the mid of the last century.

  22. Ron says:

    If you learn about American History and the history of other civilizations you will note that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican and he wanted slavery out but it was many of the Democrats who did not support abolition of slavery. Also the aAnti-slavery movement was largely championed by Christians.
    Jesus says to hate evil and sin but does not say to hate others. In fact Jesus tells you to love your enemies, bless them and forgive them which no religious/political leader or even human has ever has said in human history.
    Most of the legislation around families made by progressives, liberals or democrats have weakened the family structure be it no –fault divorce, abortion, age of consent, euthanasia, marriage, justice and penal system for crimes, taxation etc. though it has resulted in increasing the voter base of liberals as dependency on aid, food stamps and handouts increases.
    Juvenile delinquency is higher among kids of broken families, single parents and less among kids of traditional families or those where the father works and mom stays at home.
    I am not supportive of women being subjugated and Jesus does not in any way imply that in is teachings. Consensus is important in a heterosexual marriage. If there is Christ centered love in a marriage then there is consensus, mutual understanding and respect. Having such a thinking does not make you a bigot, but if you do not entertain this thinking at all then it qualifies the dictionary definition of bigotry

  23. Sam says:

    Ali: i am not a Muslim.
    If your solution is to ban Koran then you might as well add the Bible to the list as it is filled with hatred same as Koran. Right now, Christians are not committing suicide bombing… However, who says they will not in the future.
    Your Ted Cruz and the likes are bigots: against women’s rights to choose what’s best for their health… and against same sex marriage… Unbelievable that you deny a hateful ideology and you are ready to vote for bigots.

    Good article, but your comment below is poor as you are leaning to a republican candidate for the wrong reasons. Good reason is financial conservatism. Poor ones are personal ideologies like religion (Christians in government to tell me that a woman should be obedient to her husband. What the heck!). Rand on the other hand is no bigot.

  24. Vijai Singh says:

    Gentlemen, we have found ourselves in a really deep shit-hole call Islam and there is absolutely no way out it, unless, a Hitler-like personality, Geert Wilders come to mind, who really detest the ideology, rise again. Even if Trumps make it as president, he would be helpless without congress to anything.

  25. Ra says:

    Ali,
    Please be realistic. Muslims have been massacring each others for 1400 years but, still, they don’t see Islam as Satanic.

  26. Ali Sina says:

    Ron

    Please be realistic. First of all most Muslims who migrate don’t leave Islam but rather they become radicalized.
    Secondly many of them will kill ten or 100 times more westerners.
    Thrid. If they want to convert to Christianity they can do that through the Internet.
    Fourth Muslims have to undergo a purging process. God is doing that and we should not intervene. Muslims will awaking and will start seeking God only when they butcher each other by millions and then get tired. This is Divine plan and we must not stop it. While i strongly object to killing any Muslim I favor Muslims massacring one another. That is the only way that they will see Islam is Satanic.

  27. Ron says:

    Banning Muslims or from entering US or the West is an effective way to keep Muslims terrorists and fanatics from outside coming in but I DO NOT support that idea because of the below reasons.

    1) It is difficult to spread the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ in Muslim countries as the punishment for apostasy is death in Islam.

    2) Many missionaries are persecuted in these Asian, African countries as the governments are pseudo-democracies and are theocratic to a large extent.

    3) If these Muslims are coming here then it is relatively easier to sow seeds of the gospel of Christ to them here in the West locally rather than over there in their home countries.

    4) Once a Muslim converts and starts behaving like Christ (forgive, love and bless your enemies) rather than Mohamed (lie, deceive, ambush, kill and terrorize your enemies/unbelievers) then there will be peace.

    But I believe that they should have a strong vetting process to weed out criminal, fanatical and elements among these Muslims.

  28. shankar says:

    saudi is the biggest US ally .have any idea what would be the foreign diplomacy with saudi if trump wins ?.I predict it may look like a third world war bcoz iran ,US and russia together will annihilate the middle east .morever putin is also backing up trump while on the other hand 34 islamic countries grouped under coalition to fight future anti islam aggression .Any idea on future middle east policy

  29. jewdog says:

    Trump is like Geert Wilders minus the deep understanding that Wilders has about Islam. Trump correctly senses that Islam has some major issues and that its influence on its followers can be toxic, but his convictions lack depth because they lack knowledge. For example, after the attempted terrorist attack in Garland, Texas, Trump merely put down Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller’s attempt to expose Islamic blasphemy laws by drawing Mohammed as a needless provocation; the whole concept of standing up for the First Amendment eluded him.

  30. Ali Sina says:

    @Shankar, Isn’t a shrewd businessman better than a slimy politician? Next to Trump I like Carson and Cruze. I also like, Paul and Huckabee. But I don’t trust anyone else
    .

  31. Walter Sieruk says:

    If the Banning of Muslim from entering into the United States is Constitutional or unconstitutional is a subject of great debate. For scholars on both side of this topic have strong augments to support their case. Likewise ,if it’s really and good idea or not is also a subject of hot discussion. Nevertheless, aside from all this, all the people involved,whatever their stand on Trumps Idea is. It should be asked and have any of those people in the debate really stopped to wonder , to think and ask themselves the question “What had so much Muslim immigration into the nation of France ever done that was constructive or good for that country ?”

  32. Richard says:

    @ajay Actually fighting Saddam was a mistake. He may have been nominally muslim but he actually restrained the real muslims. His removal contributed significantly to the current disaster.

  33. Ajay says:

    I think trump has no chance. USA People do not have knowledge of root problem. Quran is Manufacturing unit of Islamic terrorists (Quran’s products). Attacking on products does not fulfill purpose till manufacturing factory does not be closed. USA fighting since many years against Islamic products but zero result. Sometime Saddam, sometime taliban, sometime Alakayada now ISIS. Granted, USA may be succeed to eliminate the ISIS as a organisation not an ideology which will surely rise again with a new name because Quran the manufacturing unit running with a very high speed for creating terrorist.

  34. shankar says:

    Even now i cannot trust trump bcoz he is a shrewd businessman and can be easily sold out with saudi petro dollars .well he is better than rest of the candidates at least .once america stops being politically correct ,then,i think there would be some change about other countries also stop appeasing muslims

  35. raka says:

    Trump has a trump card to save this planet from destruction. Islam must be banned on the every inch of this planet and beyond where it exists in their filthy teachings.

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