Hamza Yusuf NDE: Does near death experience prove Islam right?

Ali Sina

Ali Sina is the author of Understanding Muhammad and Muslims.

277 Responses

  1. Sakat says:

    @Why

    You won!!! thank you.

  2. Ra says:

    @Ron, Imagine why? performing that filthy Hindu habit, putting a d1ck in his mouth! It could be him in that picture.

  3. Sakat says:

    @ Why?
    What is your identity? be careful while answering ,will acknowledge(if it is ego less and worth emulating) .

  4. Ron says:

    @why
    The Unjust and Inhuman Apartheid Hindu gods and Laws. (From Hindu and Why’s Accepted translations)

    Now since we are referring the same source for translation of the Hindu Laws of Manu. Can you not see the injustice, stupidity, discrimination and apartheid in these laws? E.g. Killing lower caste people and robbing them is not a crime? Etc.

    All your translation are from hindu sources accepted and used by you in all your earlier posts.
    http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-lawsofmanu11.htm

    I have included YOUR ACCEPTED TRANSLATION, so that you don’t say there was a mis-translation. HERE THERE IS NO CHANCE OF A MIS-TRANSLATION.

    Manu Smriti 11:67. For a Brahmin killing of women, Shudras and other castes is a small offence. Also stealing grain, metals, cattle is a small offence . Also having sex with other women who drink alcohol and atheism is a small offence. For all the above you will only lose caste as the offence is small.

    Your translation 11: 67. Stealing grain, base metals, or cattle, intercourse with women who drink spirituous liquor, slaying women, Sudras, Vaisyas, or Kshatriyas, and atheism, (are all) minor offences, causing loss of caste (Upapataka).

    Manu Smriti 5:154. Men may be lacking virtue, be sexual perverts, immoral and devoid of any good qualities, and yet women must constantly worship and serve their husbands.

    Your translation: 5: 154. Though destitute of virtue, or seeking pleasure (elsewhere), or devoid of good qualities, (yet) a husband must be constantly worshipped as a god by a faithful wife.

    Manu Smriti 2:215. Wise people should avoid sitting alone with one’s mother, daughter or sister. Since carnal desire is always strong, it can lead to temptation. (This was not obeyed by Brahma –creator and wise God who married his own daughter Sarasvati. Did god Brahma know the law or not?)

    Your translation 2: 215. One should not sit in a lonely place with one’s mother, sister, or daughter; for the senses are powerful, and master even a learned man.

    Higher caste men can have sex with lower caste women but not vice -versa
    But Lower caste men to be KILLED for the same offence of having sex with higher caste women

    Manu Smriti 8:366. In case a man from a lower caste enjoys sex with a woman from a higher caste, the person in question is to be awarded the death sentence. And if a person satisfies his carnal desire with women of his own caste, he should be asked to pay compensation to the women’s faith.

    Your translation 8: 366. A (man of) low (caste) who makes love to a maiden (of) the highest (caste) shall suffer corporal punishment; he who addresses a maiden (on) equal (caste) shall pay the nuptial fee, if her father desires it.

    Vedas are supposed to have knowledge but only the Brahmin can learn

    Manu Smriti 2: 113. A Brahmin must not teach the Shudra and woman even if he dies with his knowledge without imparting it to anybody.

    Your translation 2: 113. Even in times of dire distress a teacher of the Veda should rather die with his knowledge than sow it in barren soil.

    2:116 On the other hand, if anyone studies the Vedas on his own he or she will go straight to hell.

    Your translation 2:116. But he who acquires without permission the Veda from one who recites it, incurs the guilt of stealing the Veda, and shall sink into hell.

    (Here Hindu god Ram kills Shambhuyka a Shudhra man for learning the Vedas as mentioned in the Ramayana. Did this god Rama not know that killing is wrong or did he know that Manu was right?)

  5. Why?
    // Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. As per his own standard, jesus is a bad fruit from the bad tree. His own words of causing war and division and lack of peace proves it further, for jesus is a flesh eating preta. Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.\\

    Jesus is not a man of violence. I can quote two incidents.
    (1) “Jesus sent messengers ahead to a Samaritan village to prepare for his arrival. But the people of the village did not welcome Jesus because he was on his way to Jerusalem. When James and John saw this, they said to Jesus, “Lord, should we call down fire from heaven to burn them up?” But Jesus turned and rebuked them.(Like 9:52-55)-
    (2) “And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. (Luke 22:50-51” He also said “Those who use sword will die by the sword” (Mathew 26:52)

    These two incidents clearly prove that Jesus is not a man of violence.
    Please remember that Jesus always speaks in parables. For instance “ If your right eye causes” you to sin pluck it off” When you do charity do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing” “I am the good shepherd” “ I am the bread of life” These are all parables. In a similar way Jesus is telling in parable “ Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword. ‘I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Your enemies will be right in your own household! “
    Following Jesus in Satan’s world is a problem. The enemies will be in our household. Father against son: if your son becomes a Christian what happens? Hope you won’t kill him, but he will be uprooted from your family. When you yourself choose to become a Christian and when your wife squeeze your throat you will understand Jesus better. This type of phenomena is happening all over the world. Jesus is a great prophet.
    Jesus said: whoever has ears to hear let let them hear
    “Not everyone seeing sees; not everyone hearing hears”
    Many are called, but few are chosen.

  6. why? says:

    Ron says:
    =====================================================
    This is the conclusion in the hindu website which I believe is morally incorrect.
    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/sex-and-gurus.asp

    Conclusion as mentioned verbatim from the hindu website:
    ======================================================

    Good Ron. You are absolutely right when you say it is morally incorrect to have unbridled sexual freedom.

    You have discovered so called Hindus who think they know Hinduism better from what they hear from movies and internet. These Hindus think that they are enlightened and justify their own lusts through scriptures. You will always find such people among any population.

    If you want the truth, you should go to the core texts of orthodox Hinduism, just as I base my arguments based on core texts of Christianity or Judaism, not on hearsay from so called Christians.

    There is one example of misinterpretation in website. It mentions Brhadaranyaka Upanishad as mentioning explicit sexual content and you also mentioned one place where rape is allegedly authorized. This is classic example of wrong translations. The entire Upanishad teaches about advanced methods of meditation and secrets of the world of Hindu Gods and how they control every living entity on existence. Meditating as these require first one to pass basic meditation levels and reach a state called Vairagya (a state where one is never affected by lust, greed, anger and its advanced states). The anti-Hindu mletchas base their argument on just one verse from the Upanisad that rape is there or ignorant Hindus base their argument on a chapter which talks about husband-wife sexual relationship. Certain idiotic Hindus think that the chapter is talking about sexual relationship between any man and any woman, while the Upanishad talks about husband-wife relationship. Even the sexual relationship between husband and wife is taught to be a sacred religious ritual and hence not to be sullied with impure thoughts. There is more to a human being’s existence and his actions than mere bodily existence. The upanishad says one who knows the secrets of this existence, even in sexual relationship between husband and wife will see the secret of divine existence. Such a man and woman who has reached advanced stages of meditation will never incur sin, even in so called carnal relationship between them, while others will gain only sin even if it is between husband and wife. Exactly how this is so, mere reading of Upanishads will NOT give this knowledge. One who practices severe meditative techniques and applies severe control of mind and body, only they will come to understand. This Upanishad is for advanced sages and those who have learned from them.

    Ron, understand one thing, real Hinduism is for spiritually advanced civilized people. You should NOT see Hindu texts with your eyes sullied by your lusts and greed. Unfortunately 99% of Hindus are imitating and behaving like mletchas these days. They have forgotten how advanced their forefathers were spiritually and have fallen. This age (Kali Yuga which started 5000 years back) is said to be for fools and morons and majority evil sould are born in this age, whether in India or abroad. This is the reason mostly foolish Hindus who imitate mlecthas blabber like fools without understanding real content of Hindu scriptures. This is how certain horrible forms of Hinduism arose such as Khajuraho for example. Kama sutra is one example of an evil soul’s creation for his sexual indulgence. There are similar texts even within Hinduism meant to mislead evil souls called Tamas vidya (black arts based on indulgence of all sorts, example is naked aghori sadhus who are very dangerous). Good souls will untimately come to accept only satvika Vedic texts and those texts that support Vedic texts. Now it is on you or others, to accept real nature of orthodox Hinduism.

  7. why? says:

    Ron Says:
    ==============================================
    @why
    I am not making up things as I have sent you the reference. I have searched the net and the Sikh site tell you a lot.
    also look at the site below for the comments

    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/sikh/T3C4VA35TM1KJ8RP6
    ====================================================

    Dear Ron,

    Understand one thing. Sikh mletchas are NOT Hindus. They are mletchas like yourselves and Arabs. They belong to mletcha tribes who created their own anti-Vedic religion 500 years back. They write too much garbage and PURE LIES about Hinduism. Do NOT believe even what Hindus write. You should go to the very source of Hindu scriptures if you want to know the truth. I do NOT believe what Christians write about christianity or about Old Testament. I go to the source, Hebrew scriptures translated by Jews with Jewish commentaries, like Rashi. I do NOT believe in others opinion. Similarly, I go to the NT to evaluate what it is to make my decisions.

    Ron Says:
    ==============================================
    It seems there are many Ramayans all having similar immorality. You can choose your pick of immorality.

    Some show Ram and Sita as brother and sister.
    another shows Ravana and Sita as father and daughter.

    I am not indian and do not know which Ramayan you are referring to or which the earlier site is referring to.
    =============================================

    Good, you at the least openly admitted your ignorance honestly that you do not know about Ramayan. There is ONLY one Ramayana that is trustworthy and existent today. This is Valmiki Ramayan. There was a original Ramayana called Mula Ramayana. This original Ramayana is permanently lost. Valmiki Ramayana that is existent today is based on this original (Mula) Ramayana. All the rest of the Ramayanas are based on falsehood and LIES that were written by anti-Hindus in history. I quoted you Valmiki Ramayana and the website is trustworthy as it is created by trustworthy Hindu scholars.

  8. Ron says:

    @why
    You gave me a lot of baloney about Hindu men/women control of desires.

    Your own hindu website (below) says in Christianity sex is not allowed outside marriage but in Hinduism it is permitted and in Hinduism it does not condemn it as a sin. Also all your hindu gods were caught red-handed doing forbidden sex out of marriage.
    Your hindu website says it is not abnormal to have sex outside marriage.

    These hindu views are against your personal views which by the way (your personal views on control, and trust and one wife forever) is in agreement with what Jesus says. So I believe if you remove this hatred by accepting or even trying Jesus you will find the truth which you are looking for.

    This is what you said
    // From young age, both Hindu men and women are trained in control of mind and body through strict Hindu rituals. When they mature and reach certain attainment spiritually through rigorous rituals and yogic practices, they decide to have children. Thus, both husband and wife, loyal to each other with controlled mind get a progeny. Such a progeny will NOT lust.//

    This is the conclusion in the hindu website which I believe is morally incorrect.
    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/sex-and-gurus.asp

    Conclusion as mentioned verbatim from the hindu website:
    From the above, it is clear that in Hinduism sex is not a taboo, while lust is. We may also draw the following conclusions.
    1. In Hinduism sex is not considered sinful but divine and an essential part of creation and procreation.
    It facilitates continuity, preservation of family lineage, social order, rebirth and opportunity for the souls to work for their salvation.
    2. Both men and women have the permission to indulge in sexual acts as part of their obligatory duties, subject to the norms prescribed for them.
    3. As a rule, students are not allowed to indulge in sexual intercourse or even the thought of it before the completion of their education.
    4. Householders have the freedom to engage in sex within as well outside their marriage, as part of their obligatory duties and to maintain the order and regularity of the world.
    5. As a rule ascetic people are not allowed to engage in sexual intercourse, except in tantric traditions.
    However, in some traditions, ascetic people and spiritual masters are allowed to marry and lead the life of a householders.
    In exceptional circumstances they are also allowed to perform special services to childless women procreate.
    5. If ascetic people indulge in sexual acts out of lust, it dissipates their spiritual energy (ojas) and leads to their spiritual downfall.
    However, through austerities and spiritual practices, they can regain their lost power and spiritual purity.
    It is important to remember in this discussion that Hinduism is a fluid religion. It is neither rigid nor dogmatic nor judgmental.
    The freedom that we enjoy in Hinduism is meant not to disregard the prevailing norms of society,
    but to cultivate tolerance and remain indifferent to the practices with which we may not agree.
    A spiritual guru may engage in sex or may not. Whether he is right or wrong depends upon what he preaches and practices.

  9. Ra says:

    @why?, Here is another filthy Hindu like yourself!
    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24yls52wlko&w=560&h=315%5D

  10. Ron says:

    https://hinduismkisachai.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/pornography-in-ramayan/

    The above site also tells you and refers the same passages and even others

  11. Ron says:

    @why
    I am not making up things as I have sent you the reference. I have searched the net and the Sikh site tell you a lot.
    also look at the site below for the comments

    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/sikh/T3C4VA35TM1KJ8RP6
    It seems there are many Ramayans all having similar immorality. You can choose your pick of immorality.

    Some show Ram and Sita as brother and sister.
    another shows Ravana and Sita as father and daughter.

    I am not indian and do not know which Ramayan you are referring to or which the earlier site is referring to.

  12. why? says:

    Ron says:
    =============================================================
    @why. I will still call you brother despite whatever you call me because you are a child of God and Jesus taught us to love all and hate no one. Jesus said bless your enemies also (though you are not an enemy).
    ===================================================================

    Ron I am NOT your brother and please do NOT call me brother. I would NOT like to associate with a prostitute born race such as mletchas. You may think this is hatred, but it is fact. It is a fact that your women and men act as prostitutes only. How many women did you have sex with Ron until today, besides your wife if you are married? Answer this question and you will know I am talking the truth.

    Aybody can talk as jeebus did. But what is important is whether jeebus really followed his teachings. How own words tell otherwise and I have proven it to you that jeebus is full of hatred and vice. Besides, I cannot accept the words of illegitimate born sinful wretched mlectha’s words.

    Ron says:
    =============================================================
    Debating with you increased my knowledge of Hinduism a lot. Even hindu websites are mentioning the crimes and deficiencies or immorals of the hindu gods for whatever reasons.
    ============================================================

    Ron, you have NOT increased your knowledge, only ignorance, lies and falsehood about Hinduism. I have shown you how many LIES and falsehood you have quoted with evidence. It is upto you to really see the truth. But I know you will NOT accept it for you are born in a sinful race of prostitutes and bound to hell. Truth will be indigestible for you and only demonic falsehoods attractive to you.

    Jeebus is not going to help you, he will slaughter you like a sheep is slaughtered by shepherd for meat. Jeebus is a flesh eating preta. Please see what a preta is. It is NOT coincidence that jeebus himself says he is shepherd and his followers are sheep. What does a shepherd do with his livestock? He slaughters it for meat and warm clothes. This is your destiny following a demonic spirit jeebus.

  13. why? says:

    Ron,

    How much of lies and falsehood about Hinduism would satisfy you mletcha Ron? Please expose yourselves that you are lying. Let people know what kind of lying prostitute sons you are.

    ======================================
    The Ramayan tells us much about the unlawful relationship of incest (Please refer to Aranya Kandam, chapter 45, verses 122, 123, 124 & 125).
    =====================================

    valmikiramayan.net/utf8/aranya/sarga45/aranya_45_frame.htm

    This particular chapter of Ramayana has only total of 40 verses. Ron is talking about non-exostent verses 122, 123, 124 and 125. There are NO such verses.

    Ron says:
    ============================================
    These holy men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies to the King. By this means, the King was able to have three sons – Ram, Lakshman and Bharat” (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details on yagnam, refer to the book “Gnana Surian”, published by Kudi Arasu Press).
    ================================================

    This is another pure LIES spread by prostitute born man-god worshiping mletcha Ron.

    http://valmikiramayan.net/utf8/baala/sarga14/bala_14_frame.htm

    Refer verses 34 through 36. There is NO mention of carnal desires satisfied the priests or bestiality anti-Hindus mention. As usual it is full of LIES and falsehood and strawman attacks.

    ==================================

    ============================================
    The gospel clearly says that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    ====================================================

    You did NOT answer the question posted earlier. Will you consider a man who impregnates an unmarried girl engaged to another man moral or immoral? Will you consider a child born through such union pure or sullied by sin? Please answer it honestly Ron…

    What kind of unholy spirit impregnates an unmarried girl who is engaged recently to another man, whether miraculously or not? Why would you NOT consider this act immoral?

    Why would God do such a prohibited act of making an engaged girl pregnant, which appears like a birth through illicit relationship or criminal intercourse?

    If you answer the above questions, you will know that jeebus was born through illicit and criminal sexual intercourse only and NO real God can do such an act which appears like pregnancy out of wedlock or adultery. One who is engaged to another man belongs to that man and that man to that woman. Any pregnancy that happens outside of this relationship is adultery ONLY. God will NEVER do such act.

    ONLY demonic beings do such act. Demons and ghosts (preta, paisacha, rakshas in Hindu terminology) do such acts of making engaged and married women pregnant. They select particularly widows, married women and engaged women. They in turn are born through such relationship as men to spread their false teachings. Jesus is such a being or jesus is in fact a preta, a demonic being.

    Ron says:
    ==========================================
    Getting born without a father is NOT a crime of the child. Whether you believe in miracles or not.
    ===============================================

    According to your own jesus,

    Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

    As per his own standard, jesus is a bad fruit from the bad tree. His own words of causing war and division and lack of peace proves it further, for jesus is a flesh eating preta.

    Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Manu Smriti:

    10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his
    real nature.
    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the
    faults of his (father), be they small or great.

  14. Ron says:

    @why. I will still call you brother despite whatever you call me because you are a child of God and Jesus taught us to love all and hate no one. Jesus said bless your enemies also (though you are not an enemy).

    Debating with you increased my knowledge of Hinduism a lot. Even hindu websites are mentioning the crimes and deficiencies or immorals of the hindu gods for whatever reasons.

    You may be born in it but you need to question it and be a seeker and look without bias. (it is very very difficult to do so specially when you are indoctrinated in it, born in it and hate non-Hindus specially Christ and Christians).

    You should watch this video it will change your life

  15. Ron says:

    @Ra @ Phoenix
    I should thank Phoenix and you and also Why because I never ever imagined that Hinduism would have pedophilia, bestiality, incest, rape, casteism and such bad teachings.

    I remember when I first visited India and Nepal and Pakistan, I went to their holy shrines and did see discrimination, casteism, poverty and crime but never bothered and had no compassion. I saw a lot of blind beliefs and superstitions but never cared.

    I had not accepted Chris then and had visited mostly temples, pagodas, mosques and gurudaras

    After reading some portions of Manu smriti and searching about hindu gods, I can understand the reasons for discrimination, casteism , temple prostitution and crime against women and children.

    Read the Manu smriti by clicking at the chapter and then scrolling down to verses.

    Did you know that there is a Buddhist Ramayana?

    I don’t know whether Hinduism is more dangerous than Islam?

    http://bmyahya.tripod.com/Faq/hindu_exposed.html

    Ramayana also recounts the “story of King Dasharatha who, in order to have a baby son, made a big sacrifice (yagnam) of sheep, cattle, horses, birds and snakes. He then delivered his three wives Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to three priests. These holy men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies to the King. By this means, the King was able to have three sons – Ram, Lakshman and Bharat” (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details on yagnam, refer to the book “Gnana Surian”, published by Kudi Arasu Press).

    The handing over of Rama’s mother to the three disciples occurred after the Vedic horse sacrifice (ashwamedha), in which Rama’s mother copulated with the dead horse in accordance with Vedic Hindu requirements.

    The Ramayan tells us much about the unlawful relationship of incest (Please refer to Aranya Kandam, chapter 45, verses 122, 123, 124 & 125). Brahma had intercourse with his own daughter Sarasvat; and even Sita is, in the older Buddhist and more authentic versions of the Ramayana, the sister of Rama.

  16. why? says:

    Ron says:
    =================================================
    9.94. A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would (otherwise) be impeded, (he must marry) sooner.
    ==========================================================================

    Yes Ron the verse says so.

    1. The question is whether Hindus took this verse literally at any time

    and

    2. did it have some other meaning or does marriage have some other sanctity for Hindus besides being just a sexual contract between a man and a woman.

    First read the following passages to understand what marriage ceremony meant for Hindus by reading further passages.

    9.95. The husband receives his wife from the gods, (he does not wed her) according to his own will; doing what
    is agreeable to the gods, he must always support her (while she is) faithful.

    9.96. To be mothers were women created, and to be fathers men; religious rites, therefore, are ordained in the
    Veda to be performed (by the husband) together with the wife.

    So the understanding is from 9:96 is the wife and husband have to be trained in performing religious rites with control of mind. Just like baptism is for christianity, Hindu men have sacred thread ceremony at age 6-8 years. Similarly women have marriage as sacred rite for initiating her into religious life.

    Note the verse 9:95. It says clearly the husband does not wed the girl according to his own will, ie. the man does NOT pick up his wife like a vegetable from market or a piece of ornament in a shop. It happens as ordained by Gods and she is given to him as an invaluable gift by Gods. They are inseparable pairs from one life to another and even in next life. This is why Hindus go for arranged marriage and NOT so called love marriage (which in reality is nothing but lust marriage). All these lust marriages always end up in divorce. Untrained mind is characteristic of you mletchas.

    From young age, both Hindu men and women are trained in control of mind and body through strict Hindu rituals. When they mature and reach certain attainment spiritually through rigorous rituals and yogic practices, they decide to have children. Thus, both husband and wife, loyal to each other with controlled mind get a progeny. Such a progeny will NOT lust.

    Now, is the Manu smriti age indicative or prescriptive. Medhatithi, a well known commentator, says that the age is merely indicative of the age differences between husband and wife. Only that the age difference should be enough so that the wife will accept her husband as a religious teacher and respect him. It is NOT prescriptive of exact age differences.

    So this solves the misunderstanding of Hindu scripture regarding the pedophilia allegations.

    Again Ron, you being a mletcha like Ra will reject it as spinning. It is your wish whether you accept it or not. But I have given truthfully Hindu understanding of what marriage is between man and woman. marriage is a first of all a sanctimonious relationship where a man and woman grows spiritually in this life and continues to be husband and wife even in salvation. This is why, Hinduism does NOT recognize divorce and disqualifies the husband who divorces his wife permanently from any religious rites and yogic practices.

    Unlike your barbaric religions where marriage is mere sexual contract, in Hinduism it is first of all it is a spiritual journey that two souls make together life after life.

  17. Ra says:

    Bestiality is rampant in Hinduism. That’s why Hindus are so smelly!

  18. why? says:

    Ron says:
    ============================================
    The gospel clearly says that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    ====================================================

    You did NOT answer the question posted earlier. Will you consider a man who impregnates an unmarried girl engaged to another man moral or immoral? Will you consider a child born through such union pure or sullied by sin? Please answer it honestly Ron…

    What kind of unholy spirit impregnates an unmarried girl who is engaged recently to another man, whether miraculously or not? Why would you NOT consider this act immoral?

    Why would God do such a prohibited act of making an engaged girl pregnant, which appears like a birth through illicit relationship or criminal intercourse?

    If you answer the above questions, you will know that jeebus was born through illicit and criminal sexual intercourse only and NO real God can do such an act which appears like pregnancy out of wedlock or adultery. One who is engaged to another man belongs to that man and that man to that woman. Any pregnancy that happens outside of this relationship is adultery ONLY. God will NEVER do such act.

    ONLY demonic beings do such act. Demons and ghosts (preta, paisacha, rakshas in Hindu terminology) do such acts of making engaged and married women pregnant. They select particularly widows, married women and engaged women. They in turn are born through such relationship as men to spread their false teachings. Jesus is such a being or jesus is in fact a preta, a demonic being.

    Ron says:
    ==========================================
    Getting born without a father is NOT a crime of the child. Whether you believe in miracles or not.
    ===============================================

    According to your own jesus,

    Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

    As per his own standard, jesus is a bad fruit from the bad tree. His own words of causing war and division and lack of peace proves it further, for jesus is a flesh eating preta.

    Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Manu Smriti:

    10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his
    real nature.
    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the
    faults of his (father), be they small or great.

    Ron says:
    ===================================
    Jesus NEVER did any of the above.
    ===================================

    Ron, first you will have to prove what you claimed. Majority of what you wrote recently is pure LIES and falsehood, if not misunderstanding.

    Second, It is already established that jesus was born through adulterous relationship ONLY. The story about unholy ghost or some demon god making her pregnant are stories spinned or if it is truly some miracle, it implies that only demonic entities will do such acts. Both ways you are in a fix.

    Ron says:
    ===================================
    Hindu gods DID ALL OF THE ABOVE.

    If you need more proof, please do let me know.
    ====================================

    There are no proofs for LIES and falsehood Ron.

  19. Ron says:

    @ why. Pedophilia in Hinduism as mentioned in Manu Smriti i.e. from ‘Why’s own source –Hindu source..!!!!
    I saw that you are using the following translation of Manu Smriti
    Below is your translation quoted in ‘why’ earlier post
    //10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the faults of his (father), be they small or great.//

    And this is the translation from the site (http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-lawsofmanu10.htm )

    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the faults of his (father), be they small or great.

    So since we are both using the same source (authentic hindu source) we can see that this is showing casteism, racism, inequality, rape and pedophilia.

    This same common translation which is your source says the following also, WHICH YOU (WHY) ARE CLEARLY TRYING TO HIDE.

    Pedophilia in Manu Smriti from ‘Why’s own source –Hindu source..!!!!

    9.94. A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would (otherwise) be impeded, (he must marry) sooner.

    10.129. No collection of wealth must be made by a Sudra, even though he be able (to do it); for a Sudra who has acquired wealth, gives pain to Brahmanas.

    10.412. But a Brahmana who, because he is powerful, out of greed makes initiated (men of the) twice-born (castes) against their will do the work of slaves, shall be fined by the king six hundred (panas).

    10.413. But a Sudra, whether bought or unbought, he may compel to do servile work; for he was created by the Self-existent (Svayambhu) to be the slave of a Brahmana.

    10.414. A Sudra, though emancipated by his master, is not released from servitude; since that is innate in him, who can set him free from it?

    10.415. There are slaves of seven kinds, (viz.) he who is made a captive under a standard, he who serves for his daily food, he who is born in the house, he who is bought and he who is given, he who is inherited from ancestors, and he who is enslaved by way of punishment.

    10.416. A wife, a son, and a slave, these three are declared to have no property; the wealth which they earn is (acquired) for him to whom they belong.

    10.417. A Brahmana may confidently seize the goods of (his) Sudra (slave); for, as that (slave) can have no property, his master may take his possessions.

    Dear Why… Please don’t give further explanation and renounce your evil habits (lies, distortion and foul-mouthedness), evil religion (Hinduism) and look to Jesus only.

    If you need further proof, please do let me know.

    Others, please feel free to go through this Manu Smriti and for your knowledge learn about the hatred, inequality, pedophilia etc. it teaches.

  20. why? says:

    Ron’s example of PURE LIES:
    ===================================
    Sex With Animals :: Holy Purans :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Brahma had a sexual relationship with a Bear. A son called Jambu Vandan was born from this act of bestiality.

    * Brother and Sister Sex :: Rig Veda :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Ashvisns married Surya and Savitri who were sisters.
    =======================================================

    First, it is said Ashvins married Surya and Savitri who were his sisters as per Rig Veda. The idiot mlectha Ron nor the Sikh mletcha who quoted this both do not know that Ashvins, Surya and Savitra in Rig Veda all refer to MALE beings. So much for the lies and false propaganda the mletchas do even without knowing anything about Rig Veda.

    Second, Jambavan is said to be a bear born from mouth of Brahma at the beginning of creation before even many Hindu Gods were created. There is no chance that bears existed at this time.

    The total number of LIES propagated by you mletchas is countless. What else can be expected from a prostitute born races who worships a man-god born through illicit relationship?

    Manu Smriti:

    10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his
    real nature.
    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the
    faults of his (father), be they small or great.

  21. why? says:

    Ron,
    =========================================
    Hindu gods havingno control over their sexual urges and indulging in rape, bestiality, molestation, homosexuality, incest and murder is A BIG CRIME.
    =========================================

    Mlectha Ron Conratulations!!! Now you have been promoted from merely presenting mistranslations and misinterpretations to presenting non-existent LIES and FALSEHOOD. Go on repeating and vomiting pure lies about Hinduism mletcha.

    Manu Smriti:

    10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his
    real nature.
    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the
    faults of his (father), be they small or great.

    ==================================
    Having no control over hunger is NOT a crime.
    ===============================

    What kind of god is this jeebus who has no control on even hunger? You being a mletcha How can you knmow what it takes to control lust for you are born in lust and live in lust.

    If you know anything about control of lust, greed etc. in mind, you will know that one who cannot control half-a-days hunger is incapable of controlling lust. This is the pointer that one is base-born and base-born cannot control their real nature. Their weakness shows up be they small or great.

    Manu Smriti:

    10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his
    real nature.
    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the
    faults of his (father), be they small or great.

  22. Ron says:

    @why Hindus worship sexual organs of these sex crazy gods.

    Crime by God (Hindu gods) as demonstrated is significant as they are supposed to be role models for their creation. Follow Jesus he is sinless and cannot be indicted for any crime.
    Crime by creations (general people) happens in every country.

    Hindus worship sexual organs of these sex crazy gods.

    From The Shiv Purana Lord Shiva And Linga Purana– A Dirty Story

    Once Lord Siva visited to Tarugavanam and meet Birunthai Rishi. At that time Lord Siva saw Rishi’s very beautiful wife. Usually Lord Siva is worst in sexual character. Lord Siva planned to rape Rishi’s wife and in midnight Lord Siva made the voice of cock. Immediately Birunthai Rishi thought that was dawn and he went to River Ganges for bath. In the mean time Lord Siva changed his shape himself as like Birunthai Rishi and entered inside the cottage. Rishi’s wife did not refuse for the sex and Lord Siva enjoyed sex with her. Birunthai Rishi confused himself and feel that time must be midnight. Rishi immediately returned to his cottage and saw his wife in raped condition. Rishi identified that was Lord Siva. Rishi got angry about this kind of immoral activity of Lord Siva. Rishi gave Sabam ( the effective spiritual words during the the time of anger ). Rishi cried, ” The penis rapes my wife must be destroy immediately.” After the sabam of Rishi, The penis of Lord Siva detached from him and come down to the earth as like arrow. The Devas requested Lord Siva’s wife Parvathi to save the earth from the danger of Lord siva’s penis. Parvathi herself accepted the penis of Lord Siva into her vagina as like lock and key method. Lord Brahmma gave base support to the sexual organs that is linga Beetam. Only the sexual organs of Lord Siva and Parvathi is known as Siva Lingam.

    What a nasty story about creation!

    I just learnt a story of how Ram was created. That will surprise you if you are not aware.

  23. Ron says:

    Rape, Incest, Bestiality, Necrophilia And Sodomy In The Hindu Religion by HINDU Gods

    Hinduism accepts physical relationships between brother and sister as well as between father and daughter. According to the Hindus Holy Granths these are valid and divine relationships.

    Let’s look at examples of these Hindu ‘Holy’ Relationships:

    * Brother And Sister Sex :: Holy Rig Veda :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Pushan had a physical relationship with his Sister Shurya

    * Brother and Sister Sex :: Rig Veda :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Agni is the lover of his own sister.

    * Brother and Sister Sex :: Rig Veda :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Ashvisns married Surya and Savitri who were sisters.

    * Lord Krishna Incest :: Lord Krishna lived in incest with his sister Subhadra, sharing her with his brother Balarama [Mah.wh.153 ]

    * Father And Daughter Incest :: Holy Purans :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Brahma had a physical relationship with his Daughter Sarasvati. In the Holy Purans, Brahma explains the validity and divine power of this relationship.

    * Father and Daughter Incest :: Holy Rig Veda :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Agni is the son of his father and his own sister. The Ashvins are referred to as the sons of Savitar and Ushas who are brother and sister.

    * Sex With Prostitutes :: Holy Purans :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Brahma had a physical relationship with Urvasi (a sex worker), their son’s name was Rishi Vasishta

    * Intermatial Sex :: Holy Purans :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Brahma had relationship with Parvati. Their son’s name was Agasthiar

    * Sex With Animals :: Holy Purans :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Brahma had a sexual relationship with a Bear. A son called Jambu Vandan was born from this act of bestiality.

    * Sex With A Dead Body (Necrophilia) :: Holy Purans :: It is Valid in Hinduism. Brahma had sex with a dead body in a cremation ground. His son Salliyan was born from this necrophilia.

    http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=19589

  24. Ron says:

    @why
    Cutting a fruitless tree or talking to it or cursing it is NOT a crime, is NOT an indictable offence under any penal code system in the world. But making the tree wither without an axe is a miracle. Having no control over hunger is NOT a crime.

    Hindu gods havingno control over their sexual urges and indulging in rape, bestiality, molestation, homosexuality, incest and murder is A BIG CRIME.

    It is NOT WORTH following such HINDU gods. You end up being foul mouthed, susceptible to criminal behaviour. First symptom of hate and foul-mouthedness is you will start calling people names.
    Hindu supreme Gods doing
    1) incest (Brahma)
    2) Rape, Molestation (Vishnu and Shiva, Indra
    3) Homosexuality (Vishnu and Shiva)
    4) Porn viewing (peeping tom Hindu god Krishna)
    5) Pimping (Indra, Krishna etc.)
    6) Murder (Ram, Krishna, Shiva, Indra and practically every God)
    7) Abduction (Krishna, Indra)
    8) Ransom(Indra, Krishna
    9) Nakedness and lewdness (Shiva)

    https://hinduismkisachai.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/sexual-morality

    The gospel clearly says that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    Getting born without a father is NOT a crime of the child. Whether you believe in miracles or not.
    Jesus NEVER did any of the above.
    Hindu gods DID ALL OF THE ABOVE.

    If you need more proof, please do let me know.

  25. why? says:

    Bestiality is rampant in Hinduism and Why? is the litter of a pig and a bitch.
    ============================================================

    Ra…no matter what you say, you are a mletcha, a race born of prostitutes born through prostitution. If you do not believe enquire with your father or mother.

    manu smriti

    10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his
    real nature.

  26. why? says:

    Ron,

    By the way, if you and other mletchas still do NOT understand, all of your quotes from Hindu scriptures are mistranslation, misunderstanding and misinterpretation by other mletchas like yourselves, including those Sikh mletchas, muslim mletchas, and christian mletchas. Still none of the strawman stick to Hinduism or Hindu Gods. Even if you quote thousand times the same lies, they are still lies. I have no need to defend fake propaganda and strawman attacks against Hinduism.

    I already gave you an example on strawman attacks (Indra and Ahalya). Yet I knew even before providing the example, that a mlectha like yourself will never agree on correct interpretation as per Hindu scriptures and continue with your propaganda. A mlectha is always filled with hatred for truth as he/she is fully possessed of
    kama — lust, krodha — anger, lobh — greed, moha — delusory emotional attachment or temptation, mada or ahankara — pride, hubris, matsarya — envy, jealousy for your god is a demonic being and possesses all mlecthas. A mletcha is born in sin, lives sinful life, speaks sinful lies, thinks always about sinning and dies a sinner and goes to hell.

    This is why your churches, mosques etc. are ridden with sexual affairs, pedophiles, homosexuals priests and murderers. When your god himself is born through illicit sexual affair, what else can you expect. 100% of your women end up having pre-marital sex, have children before marriage, marry another guy after getting pregnant with one guy, sleep with another guy after marriage. I have seen this both in arab and western world. Women have no character and men have no character or strength of mind. They sleep with any person the first chance they get. These are characteristic of a prostitute race. This is why Christian and Muslim countries have high rates of rape. In colleges they drug girls drag them to their apartment and rape them. This is common in every western University. Go to bar, get drunk and rape drugged women. How can a person born through prostitution have character. When your god himself is born of prostitution, I cannot expect good from its followers.

    The statistical evidence of very high rate of rapes in western countries proves what i say. No matter which religion you mletchas follow, your real nature will NOT leave you and it comes out.

    Manu smriti: 10.59. A base-born man either resembles in character his father, or his mother, or both; he can never conceal his real nature.

    10.60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the
    faults of his (father), be they small or great.

    Jeebus and mletchas fit this description well.

    Unlike you, I provide direct quotes from your babble. Here, your god asks for part of looting.

    http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9959#showrashi=true

    37The tax to the Lord from the sheep was six hundred and seventy five. לזוַיְהִי הַמֶּכֶס לַיהֹוָה מִן הַצֹּאן שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת חָמֵשׁ וְשִׁבְעִים:
    38Thirty six thousand cattle, of which the tax to the Lord was seventy two. לחוְהַבָּקָר שִׁשָּׁה וּשְׁלשִׁים אָלֶף וּמִכְסָם לַיהֹוָה שְׁנַיִם וְשִׁבְעִים:
    39Thirty thousand and five hundred donkeys, of which the tax to the Lord was sixty one. לטוַחֲמֹרִים שְׁלשִׁים אֶלֶף וַחֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת וּמִכְסָם לַיהֹוָה אֶחָד וְשִׁשִּׁים:
    40Sixteen thousand people, of which the tax to the Lord was thirty two people. מוְנֶפֶשׁ אָדָם שִׁשָּׁה עָשָׂר אָלֶף וּמִכְסָם לַיהֹוָה שְׁנַיִם וּשְׁלשִׁים נָפֶשׁ:
    41Moses gave the tax which was a gift to the Lord, to Eleazar the kohen, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

    Why does this demon bible god need slaves, sheeps, donkeys for? What a god this yahway is, collecting tax from looted property after murdering men and taking their wives as sex-slaves…Your demon god is filled with lust for blood, women and looted property.

  27. Ra says:

    Bestiality is rampant in Hinduism and Why? is the litter of a pig and a bitch.

  28. why? says:

    Jesus is sinless and says to flee away from temptation and sin. Jesus is the way, the truth and life.
    ==============================================================

    Ron, Yes, in a mletchas world another mletcha born through illicit pre-marital sexual relationship to an engaged woman is sinless and divine birth. Good is bad and bad is good in your twisted world.

    Do you call a man who has illicit sexual relationship with an engaged woman (engaged to another) moral or immoral? Why would God behave like an immoral man making an engaged girl pregnant for none-months and be born through her vagina? A mlectha is always a sinful son of a prostitute, even if you call him a sinless man-god. Truth does not change.

    Your man-god could not even bear half-a-days hunger and cursed a fig-tree out of season. How can such a weak man resist temptation for lust, greed, women etc.? Only foolish mletcha who does NOT know what it takes to control one’s mind will think this jeebus is sinless. jeebus is rotting in hell after his punishment on earth dying like a sinful wretch he is and he is a ghost (preta) in hell now.

  29. why? says:

    Ron Says:
    =============================
    [RigVeda III .31.1-2]. Hiranyakashpu married his daughter Rohini.
    =============================

    Ron, do you know Hiranyakashipu is NOT a Hindu God, but a Hindu demon or rakshas? You guys do NOT even know what you are quoting and think you have proved something. I pity you mletchas. Drown in your ignorance by praying to ghosts and demons…

  30. Ron says:

    Hindu gods are bad examples and are partly to blame for the rapes in India
    (all Brahma, Vishnu, shiva, Ram, Krishna and Indra, Ganesh are blamed in this article in an Indian Newspaper ) (written by hindus)

    @Ra you are right it seems.

    http://archives.deccanchronicle.com/130510/commentary-columnists/commentary/roots-rape-india

    The belief in these hindu gods are fully to blame for hindus who foul mouth or call people names.

  31. Ron says:

    Sexism and Rape in Hinduism. Bestiality by hindus

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bbd_1408371856
    Need more proof.

  32. Ron says:

    Hindu gods (not followers ) who should be pure and sinless. But they are not. (only Jesus is sinless and did not do any crime or sin)

    https://hinduismkisachai.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/sexual-morality

    (a) Incest:-
    Father-daughter incest occurs in the story of Brahma and his daughter.

    Brahma married his own daughter Satarupa.
    “Wise, teaching, following the thought of Order, the sonless gained a grandson from his daughter”. Fain, as a sire, to see his child prolific, he sped to meet her with an eager spirit‖.

    [RigVeda III .31.1-2]. Hiranyakashpu married his daughter Rohini. Vashista married Shatrupa, Janhu married Janhavi, and Surya married Usha.

    (b)Rape
    Rape was common. Some examples are Manu-Illa, Surya raped Kunti. Hindu God Vishnu raped Jalandhar‘s wife (Varinda) who later committed suicide. Love-lorn Vishnu did not even let her go after death. He bathed in her ashes, bereaved her death for days and cried loudly.

    (c) Sons married their mothers

    There are cases where father and son married the same woman; Brahma is the father of Manu. Manu married his mother
    Sharadha . Pushan too married his mother.

    (d)Marriage with sisters

    The discussion of open sex between a brother and sister (Yama and Yami in Rig Veda Mandal X) The description of sexual relationship between Yam and Yami (Brother and sister) is lewd, lascivious, and bawdy. It is a spur to carnality. They did not get married but discussed open sexual relations. From their discussion it is clear that in those days sisters could discuss sexual matters with their brothers and even marry them. Brahma had three sons Marichi, Daksha and Dharma and one daughter. Daksha is stated to have married the daughter of Brahma who was his sister (see Adi Parva of the Mahabharata). Other instances are Purukutsa and Narmada, Viprachiti and Simhika, Nahusa and Viraja, Sukra and Usanas, Amavasu and Go, Amsumat and Yasoda, Suka and Pivari.

    Pushan is the lover of his sister Achoda. “Attendant on the Blessed Dame the Blessed one hath come: the Lover followeth his Sister. [Rig Veda X.3.3]

    Agni is the lover of his own sister. ―Pūsan, who driveth goats for steeds, the strong and Mighty, who is called His Sister’s lover, will we laud‖.
    [Rig Veda VI.55.4] Ashvins were the sons of Savitar and Usha who were brother and sister. Krishna was married with his uncle’s Satrajit’s daughter and Krishna’s son Priduman was married with his matenal uncle Rukmaya’s daughter.

    (e) Selling & hiring of women:

    There is evidence that the ancient Aryans also sold their women (wives and daughters). When a daughter was sold her marriage was known as Arsha marriage. This was done through Go-Mithuna (giving away one cow and one bull to the girls‘ father as price )― When (the father) gives away his daughter according to the rule, after receiving from the bridegroom, for (the fulfillment of the sacred law, a cow and a bull or two pairs, that is named the Arsha rite”.
    (Manu Simrti 3.29)
    “Some call the cow and the bull given as on Arsha wedding ‗a gratuity‘ but that is wrong. The acceptance of the fee great or small is a sale of the daughter.” (Manu II)

    Women were also rented to others for cohabitation. In the Mahabharata we read that Madhavi was the daughter of King Yayati. Yayati made a gift of her to Galwa Rishi. Galwa rented her out to three kings one after the other. After the third, Madhavi was returned to Galwa. She was now given by Galwa to his Guru Vishvamitra. Vishvamitra kept her till he begot a son. After this he returned her to her father.

    (f) Niyoga – mistreatment of women

    Niyoga is the Aryan name for a system under which a wedded woman was legally permitted to beget a son from another person, not her husband. There was no limit to the number of men a woman could go for Niyoga. Madhuti and Ambika had one Niyoga each. Saradandayani had three. Vayusistasva was permitted to have 7 and Vali is known to have allowed as many as 17 Niyogas to one of his wives. With the consent of the husband a Niyoga could last from one night to twelve years or more. Jatila-Gautami had 7 husbands. In The Mahabharata Daropadi had five husbands and Pandu allowed his wife Kunti to have four Niyogas. Karna was the premarital first born brother of the Pandus through Nyoga.

    Abduction and disrobing of women in public is evident in the Mahabharta. Daropadi was disrobed in front of her near relatives.

    In Shiv Puran Ruder Samhita (4.12) we read that Hindu god Shiva ran after the wives of the Rishis completely naked. On account of this indecency he had to lose his male organ.

    In the temples at Jagan Nath, Konark, and Bhuneshwar of Orissa there are statues of naked women in very objectionable poses.

  33. Ron says:

    Gods are supposed to be perfect, teaching and practicing morals.

    But here the Hindu gods themselves are highly evil (doing rape, homosexuality, bestiality, murder, molestation, slavery, casteism, kidnapping ransom, cheating etc).

    How can you believe in such gods? What explanation can you give? We can understand followers doing bad things but Hindu god doing such bad things?

    No doubt you see Hindu followers will be foul mouthed and call names.

    See this hindu website below it is acknowledging that hindu gods Indra and Agni ) are molesting other peoples wifes (Ahalya) . Hindu creator god Brahma marrying own daughter Saraswati.

    Hindu Shiva god impregnating Vishnu the Hindu god and getting child god Ayappa
    Also it is allows Hindus to do similar things as Hindu gods do (sex outside marriage etc.) and calls it normal.

    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/sex-and-gurus.asp

    Jesus is sinless and says to flee away from temptation and sin. Jesus is the way, the truth and life.

  34. why? says:

    Ron says:
    ================================
    This story is mentioned many times and it is acknowledged as rape both in Ramayana and Mahabaratha.
    Our friend why as usual denied it and did not offer any explanation as mentioned above. Why’s explanation is below. It is pure denial, spin to support his evil intentions as he is full of hate towards anything non-Hindu specially Christ.
    =========================================

    Ron, whether you call it spin or denial is irrelevant to me. We know our religion well and I know better not cast pearls before swines. Again all you have is strawman arguments.

    I do not care what you Hindu hating pile of garbage mletchas born out of prostitutes believe about Hinduism. This goes well for Ra, the mletcha prostitute son as well.

    Ra, get used to the truth mletcha. Now read your own scriptures.

    Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

    Sexual slavery and rape of pre-pubescent girls (Numbers 31:17-18)

    More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

    Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

    “When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

    Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)

    They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.

  35. Ron says:

    This is the king of Hindu gods committing rape, fraud.

    This story is mentioned many times and it is acknowledged as rape both in Ramayana and Mahabaratha.
    Our friend why as usual denied it and did not offer any explanation as mentioned above. Why’s explanation is below. It is pure denial, spin to support his evil intentions as he is full of hate towards anything non-Hindu specially Christ.

    ‘Why’ said
    “It would suffice to say that Indra did NOT touch Ahalya in the ordinarily known human sense at all, Indra did NOT have lust and was relieving the sage of some great danger. The sage himself was confused. Indra’s existence pervades different dimensions of existence. This would suffice. I will not expand more on this. Every story on Hinduism and its Gods have a hidden dimension and hidden teaching.”

    http://all-about-sanskrit.blogspot.ca/2011/12/story-of-ahalya-indra-adultery-or-not.html

    If this king of Hindu gods is rapist, fraud and evil then how can his people and creation be different?
    You cannot justify evil and what hidden dimension and hidden teaching it can give? Only one shameful teaching can be seen. “ Do evil and don’t let people know then its OK”

    That is why in India you have the evils of temple prostitution, slavery, snake, rat, cow and idol worship and the apartheid of casteism.

    @ ‘why’ and other allied believers . This hatred in in you is because of this evil of Hinduism which you are refusing to abandon. That is why you call people names.

    You may have been born into it but it is your choice to abandon it. Accept Jesus and you will find peace, love and joy. Jesus never did any crime. Jesus cannot be indicted for any crime. Jesus’ teaching is simple the Golden rule“ Do unto others as you would expect others do unto you” No hidden meaning. It is simple 100% of people can understand.

  36. Ron says:

    I came to this site to know more about the evil in Islam and found in Jesus a person who has very high morals, ideals, views, compassion and teachings. Jesus cannot be indicted (unlike Krishna, Ram, mohammed etc who can be indicted for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, kidnapping, molesting, pedophilia etc) for anything under the present penal code system of any country.

    I knew little about Hinduism and the extreme evil in it.

    It is only when bully’s like ‘why’ and others started debating that is when I started searching and found such evil in hinduism which cannot be justified by any reason. There is too much of evidence and so much from hindu sources themselves.

    It is like Muslims who are in denial what the quran and the hadith says.

    This one agrees about sex and lust by hindu gods.

    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/sex-and-gurus.asp

  37. Ron says:

    This provides lot of proof about sex and evil done by hindu gods.

    https://hinduismkisachai.wordpress.com/

    1) When you see sex, incest, bestiality, homosexuality practised by hindu gods, mentioned in hindu scriptures, acknowledged by hindu scholars.-
    2) When you see physical proof of pornography, bestiality, orgies of gods and kings and animals in temples acknowledge by government officials.–
    3) When you see evil verses in the vedas, manu laws in many translations acknowledged by Dr Ambedkar and other scholars.
    4) When you see the evil of temple prostitution, slavery and crime against women and the lower castes reported by own newspapers and government officials-

    But there are still people who will stick to these beliefs and I can’t understand why?

    The hindu scriptures mention that their hindu gods did evil, fought amongst themselves, had sex out of their marriages, had sex with each other, committed incest, bestiality, homosexuality, murder, rape, promoted slavery, prostitution, pimping, kidnapping and ransoming etc.

    I never knew Hinduism had so much evil that too right from their gods? I am beginning to question is it worse than Islam? There is too much evidence to deny it.

    At least in Islam this allah commanded or allowed mohammed to do but did not do anything himself.

  38. Ra says:

    Gee, I used to think there was some wisdom in Hinduism. Now, after reading the comments in this forum and the links (exposing Hinduism, and others) and the comments of Why?, that born-in-a-toilet Hindu, I realize that Hinduism with its caste system is nothing but a pile of shit.

  39. Sakat says:

    @ Why?
    My concerns go to the people (intellectuals in Islam) who have abandoned their faith listening erudite Ali Sina ,and have not made up their mind yet for better spirituality which could take them out of the miseries right here in this life .I saw many evangelist ready to occupy the place,and really surprised to see Ali’s encouragement for the same (indirectly) .Earlier he was atheist,often used to make point how he is facing the financial difficulties of maintaining this web site.However of-late when he took refuge in Jesus, it seems all the problem encountered by this site solved over-night .I am searching abandoned “pearls” in this pond (site) for the reliable and better alternative for their perfect safety forever.

  40. Ron says:

    These gods were created?
    (from hindu sources)
    http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/god-and-i/parents-of-brahma-vishnu-mahesh-189183
    (Birth of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiv from

    Kaal-Brahm and Durga)

    In its evidence in holy Shri Shiv Puran, published from Gita

    Press Gorakhpur, translator Shri Hanuman Prasad Poddar, Adhyay

    6 Rudra Sanhita on page no. 100, it is said that ParBrahm, who is

    without a bodily form, God SadaShiv is his bodily form only. A Shakti

    came out of his body. That Shakti became known as Ambika, Prakriti

    (Durga), Tridev Janni/Mother of the three (the mother who gives

    birth to Shri Brahma Ji, Shri Vishnu Ji and Shri Shiv Ji), who has

    eight arms. He, who is SadaShiv, is also called Shiv, Shambhu and

    Maheshwar. (On page no. 101) He smears ash on all of his body

    parts. That Kaal-form Brahm built an area named Shivlok. Then

    they both behaved like husband-wife; as a result of which, a son was

    born. They kept his name Vishnu (on page no. 102).

    Then in Rudra Sanhita Adhyay no. 7, on page no. 103, Brahma

    Ji said that even I was born from the union, i.e. by the act of

    husband-wife, of God SadaShiv (Brahm-Kaal) and Prakriti (Durga).

    Then I was made unconscious.

    Then in Rudra Sanhita, Adhyay no. 9, on page no. 110, it has

    been said that — In this way Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra, these three

    Gods have gunas (qualities), but Shiv (Kaal-Brahm) has been

    considered to be beyond the gunas.

    Important: Here four have been proved; which means, they have

    originated from SadaShiv (Kaal-Brahm) and Prakriti (Durga) only.

    The mother of the three gods (Shri Brahma Ji, Shri Vishnu Ji and

    Shri Shiv Ji) is Shri Durga Ji and father is Shri Jyoti Niranjan

    (Brahm). These three gods only are Rajgun-Brahma Ji,

    Satgun-Vishnu Ji and Tamgun-Shiv Ji.

  41. Ron says:

    I am not quoting from hindu sources, hindu scholars .

    This one agrees with sex by hindu gods

    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/sex-and-gurus.asp

  42. Sakat says:

    Having understood suffering and its origin, the future Buddha
    then faced the next question: how can suffering be brought to an
    end? By remembering the law of kamma, of cause and effect: “If
    this exists, that occurs; that arises from the arising of this. If this
    does not exist, that does not occur; that ceases from the ceasing of
    this.”

    Nothing happens without a cause. If the cause is eradicated,
    there will be no effect. In this way, the process of the arising of
    suffering can be reversed:
    If ignorance is eradicated and completely ceases, reaction ceases;
    if reaction ceases, consciousness ceases;
    if consciousness ceases, mind-and-matter cease;
    if mind-and-matter ceases, the six senses cease;
    if the six senses cease, contact ceases;
    if contact ceases, sensation ceases;
    if sensation ceases, craving and aversion cease;
    if craving and aversion cease, attachment ceases;
    if attachment ceases, the process of becoming ceases;
    if the process of becoming ceases, birth ceases;
    if birth ceases, decay and death cease, together with sorrow,
    lamentation, physical and mental suffering and tribulations.
    Thus this entire mass of suffering ceases.

    If we put an end to ignorance, then there will be no blind
    reactions that bring in their wake all manner of suffering. And if
    there is no more suffering, then we shall experience real peace, real
    happiness. The wheel of suffering can change into the wheel of
    liberation.
    This is what Siddhattha Gotama did in order to achieve
    enlightenment. This is what he taught others to do. He said,
    By yourself committing wrong
    you defile yourself.
    By yourself not doing wrong
    you purify yourself.

    We are each responsible for the reactions that cause our suffering.
    By accepting our responsibility we can learn how to eliminate suffering.

  43. why? says:

    The lust of Hindu Gods (they are supposed to be perfect)

    http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/god-and-i/lust-of-gods-in-hinduism-the-story-of-ahalya

    I don’t know how why is on denial for every evidence shown.
    ==========================================================

    Ron,

    I know this may perplex you mletchas. Why the Hindu author himself in the website is perplexed? This is bound to happen, when real essence of the stories mentioned in Hindu texts is unknown to 99% of Hindus themselves. It would suffice to say that Indra did NOT touch Ahalya in the ordinarily known human sense at all, Indra did NOT have lust and was relieving the sage of some great danger. The sage himself was confused. Indra’s existence pervades different dimensions of existence. This would suffice. I will not expand more on this. Every story on Hinduism and its Gods have a hidden dimension and hidden teaching. Mletchas do NOT deserve to know more.

  44. why? says:

    Ron,

    One piece of advice. No matter how many anti-Hindu websites you quote about Hindu Gods this and that, it is NOT going to affect me the least. You know why. I know the true essence of these stories and that your idiotic allegations on Hindu Gods are false. So do not waste my time. None of it stick to Hinduism as every allegation about Hinduism is nothing but strawman and based on complete wrong understanding.

    It would be better for you to think why an almighty God would make 12 year old engaged Mary (engaged to Joseph) pregnant and then born through her vagina after nine months? Do you think this really makes sense to you? Do you think it is moral for a man to make another man’s engaged woman pregnant?

  45. Phoenix says:

    Following AliSina said:”High dose of too much logic and argument for long time (and 24X7) can make people sick//

    You seriously can’t be accusing Ali Sina of being too excessively concerned with logical arguments.And here I thought using the rules of disciplined logic was a good thing,even in someone with whom I disagreed.
    Perhaps you need to re-examine your expectations of reality.

  46. why? says:

    Ra
    July 22, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    @why?, You are an Untouchable because you are born in a toilet while your mother was performing her caste duty to clean it. You nigis kaka
    ================================================

    Ra, no matter how much you abuse me or my family, you know I am talking truth when I say you are a mletcha, son of a prostitute. I feel sorry for you mletcha. You know how much mletchas are worse than the untouchables? Figure it out.

  47. Ron says:

    The hindu creator god Brahma had sex with his daughter
    (from hindu website)
    http://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/598/did-lord-brahma-commit-incest-with-his-daughter
    According to Shiva purana,

    “Brahma desired Sarasvati and went to her, asking her to stay with him. She, being his daughter, was furious at this and said, ‘Your mouth speaks inauspiciously and so you will always speak in a contrary way.’ From that day, Brahma’s fifth head always spoke evilly and coarsely. Therefore one day when Siva was wandering about with Parvati and came to see Brahma, Brahma’s four heads praised Siva but the fifth made an evil sound. Siva, displeased with the fifth head, cut it off. The skull remained stuck fast to Siva’s hand, and though he was capable of burning it up, Siva wandered the earth with it for the sake of all people, until he came to Benares.” — Siva Purana, Jnanasamhita 49:65-80.

  48. Phoenix says:

    I agree with Steve somewhat.Most rapes are not inspired by religious teachings.Such reported incidences are practically unheard of,with the exception of Islam.Religious rape can be defined as “committing rape to spread a particular ideology”.Boko Haram et al are notorious for the forced conversions of kidnapped women and forcing them into sex slavery.They are on record quoting the Quran for support.

  49. Ra says:

    @why?, You are an Untouchable because you are born in a toilet while your mother was performing her caste duty to clean it. You nigis kaka
    https://youtu.be/j31veR74gSo

  50. Following Ali Sina says:

    What the heck happened to you Sina? You really became delusional. 🙂
    High dose of too much logic and argument for long time (and 24X7) can make people sick. Take a break and get well soon.

  51. Ron says:

    Rape, Incest And Sodomy In The Hindu Religion by the Hindu God themselves.

    http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=19589

  52. Ron says:

    Thank you Phoenix for your link.
    Many sites are giving the same translation of the evil and satanic verses in the vedas and manu’s laws. So there seems to be no mis-translation of the vedic verses as alleged by why.

    http://www.ambedkartimes.com/hari_narke.htm
    That is the reason why Dr Ambedkar and his followers have a day dedicated to burn Hindu Scripture-Manu Smriti.
    Dr Ambedkar’s quotes

    It is mischievously propagated by Hindu scriptures that by serving the upper classes the Shudras achieve salvation. Untouchability is another appellation of slavery. No race can be raised by destroying its self-respect. So if you really want to uplift the Untouchables, you must treat them in the social order as free citizens, free to carve out their destiny.

    Some people think that religion is not essential to the society. I do not hold this view. I consider the foundations of religion are essential to the society. At the roots of Hindu social system lies a Dharma as prescribed in the Manusmriti. Such being the case I do not think it is possible to abolish the inequality in the Hindu society unless foundations of the Smriti-religion is removed and a better one laid in its place. I however, despair of Hindu society, being able to reconstruct itself on such a better foundation.

    Negatively I reject the Hindu social philosophy propounded in Bhagvad Gita, based as it is on the Triguna of Sankhya Philosophy which in my judgement is a cruel perversion of the philosophy of Kapila, and which had made the caste system of graded inequality the law of Hindu social life.

    Caste cannot be abolished by inter caste dinners or stray instances of inter caste marriages. Caste is a state of mind. It is a disease of mind. The teachings of the Hindu religion are the root cause of this disease. We practice casteism and we observe Untouchability because we are enjoined to do so by the Hindu religion. A bitter thing cannot be made sweet. The taste of anything can be changed. But poison cannot be changed into nectar.

    I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.
    I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.
    I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.

    I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality, and adopt Buddhism as my religion.

  53. Ron says:

    Thank you Phoenix for your link. I never knew there was so much evil in it.

    Many sites are giving the same translation of the evil and satanic verses in the vedas and manu’s laws. So there seems to be no mis-translation of the vedic verses as alleged by why.

    It is worst type of discrimination see here.
    http://nirmukta.com/2011/08/27/the-status-of-women-as-depicted-by-manu-in-the-manusmriti/

  54. Ron says:

    The lust of Hindu Gods (they are supposed to be perfect)

    http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/god-and-i/lust-of-gods-in-hinduism-the-story-of-ahalya

    I don’t know how why is on denial for every evidence shown.

  55. why? says:

    Sakat,

    Please stop writing about higher teachings to mletchas. They are unqualified for such teachings. What they need is a bamboo stick up their behinds. This is what they qualify for. That is why their religion is barbaric and their teachers even more barbaric.

    These guys think God makes unmarried engaged girl pregnant (engaged to another man) for nine months and gets born through her vagina. This is divine birth fr these fellows…Bunch of morons……These silly retarded fellows think it is great spiritual stuff if some delusional fatherless fellow makes simple statements like love your enemies, bless who curse you etc. and expect others to get impressed on this. Bunch of baloney….

  56. why? says:

    Here is what demonic bible god says in OT.

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

    Sexual slavery and rape of pre-pubescent girls (Numbers 31:17-18)

    More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

    Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

    “When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

    Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)

    They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.

  57. why? says:

    Jesus was not cursing. He was in fact telling the consequences for not listening to his teachings. . If you tell your friend ‘don’t go to a brothel house’, it is because you know the consequences.
    =========================================================

    Matthew 10 14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

    Nice try Passive Observer. Perhaps yo should learn to read first before observing anything. Read the sentence carefully.

    Here Gee-Zeus is saying clearly that those who do NOT accept his teachings will go to hell. The verse “shake the dust of your feet” shows disgust and hatred for such people who do NOT listen to jeebus’ teachings and those who do NOT accept jeebus.

    So in this disgust, delusional jeebus says the will rot in hell which is worse than sodom and gomorrrah. Now you can believe this is a consequence of not accepting jeebus, and nOT curse, but even as per you jeebus and your delusion, this is what you people wish.

    This is the characteristics of evil hearted people. Muhammad too wished for hell for unbelievers, so does jeebus and yourself. Whether you believe this is consequence is irrelevant to us. The reality is that these verses clearly shows hatred and disgust in jeebus’ heart. Thus he is a hypocrite.

  58. why? says:

    Ron Says:
    ==========================================
    This great Hindu scholar Ravishankar says homosexuality was even practiced by Hindu gods and one hindu god was product of homosexuality and homosexuality was not a crime!!!
    =================================================
    Manu Smriti

    11.174. A twice-born man who commits an unnatural offence with a male, or has intercourse with a female in a
    cart drawn by oxen, in water, or in the day-time, shall bathe, dressed in his clothes.

    The Narada-smriti specifically states that homosexuals (mukhebhaga, sevyaka, etc.) are incurable and unfit for marriage to the opposite sex.

    Vedic texts reiterate that women should not be married to third-gender men and that wives should leave such husbands. The same is true for men married to third-gender women. The Artha Shasta nullifies such marriages, returns the dowry and imposes fines whenever a spouse is thus deceived. (Baudhayana Dharmasutra 2.3.17, 27, Artha Shastra 3.15.12-15)

    8.369. A damsel who pollutes (another) damsel must be fined two hundred (panas), pay the double of her
    (nuptial) fee, and receive ten (lashes with a) rod.

    8.370. But a woman who pollutes a damsel shall instantly have (her head) shaved or two fingers cut off, and be
    made to ride (through the town) on a donkey.

    This is proof enough to show that homosexuality is NOT encouraged in Hinduism. Ravishankar is NO scholar at all. He is a yoga teacher who got too famous. The guy does NOT know as much as me about Hindu scriptures.

    Now, this so called god Ayyappa wrshipped in Kerala (NOT found in any Hindus scripture) is a modern invention. The word “Ayyappa” is NOT even Sanskrit word. So Hinuduism cannot be blamed for modern day inventions.

  59. Sakat says:

    @Why?
    A professor shouldn’t waste his time teaching kindergarten kids,for they have their own teachers (Mosses ,Abraham,Jesus as well Mohammed) ,these kids are not accustomed to higher knowledge.
    Btw,Veda’s are quantum physics. Not some mumbo jumbo sanskrit hymns and mantras praising god.. Frequencies of vibrations generated by Sanskrit hymns and mantras are similar to vibratory frequencies generated by sub atomic particles – Bosons and fermions. Quantum physicists acknowledge that modern science is yet to catch up with vedas since it has so far discovered few sub atomic particles. Only Hindu/vedic Sanskrit “OM” with 7.83 Hz vibratory frequency can take you to the final frontier of matter. Beyond it is fourth state of consciousness or pure consciousness or divine or formless allah or formless holyspirit. Pure consciousness cannot be measured. Allah, Amen or ShalOM DON’T HAVE the same vibratory frequency like Hindu/vedic Sanskrit OM. It is well validated by science. Ever heard of Schumann resonance? Resonances of earth, ie, 7.83, 14, 20, 26, 33, 39 and 45 Hertz of earth. 7.83 hz being the strongest of all, OM or Schumann frequency. If muslims or jews or christians want to reach their formless god – then “OM” with 7.83 hz frequency is the only way HINDU SANSKRIT MANTRAS WITH FREQUENCIES OR RESONANCES SIMILAR TO MATTER
    Ohm- 7.83 Hz
    Gam – 14 Hz
    Hleem – 20 Hz
    Hreem – 26 Hz
    Kleem – 33 Hz
    Krowm – 39 Hz
    Sreem – 45 Hz

  60. why? says:

    Ra says:
    =====================================================
    @why, There are millions of untouchables like yourself in India. It’s impossible to count you all. You are like cockroaches. Ya metnak.
    ==========================================

    Your language shows your dirty birth Ra. I was right you are a mletcha, son of a prostitute. Only prostitute’s son will learn such language from his mother.

  61. Why?
    //Your Gee-Zeus is a hypocritical bastard in reality.. A bad seed does not fall far away from the bad tree. Matthew 10 14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.\\
    Jesus was not cursing. He was in fact telling the consequences for not listening to his teachings. . If you tell your friend ‘don’t go to a brothel house’, it is because you know the consequences. He may get AIDS/other STDs. His wife may divorce him etc. Jesus first came to the Jews. John 1:11 says “He came unto his own, and his own received him not”. The Jews did not listen to Jesus and humble themselves, instead they crucified him, saying “let his blood be on us and on our children”. Their supremacism antagonised the Romans and their great temple and Jerusalem were destroyed and the Jews were almost annihilated; they became homeless and faced anti-Semitism for nearly 2000 years. Hitler massacred six millions of them. These are the consequences. It appears you have not read the Bible with a view to seek the truth. You have failed to see Jesus compassion for his people. Indeed Jesus wept for his people. Luke says:-
    “But as he came closer to Jerusalem and saw the city ahead, he began to weep. How I wish today that you of all people would understand the way to peace. But now it is too late, and peace is hidden from your eyes. Before long your enemies will build embankments against your walls and encircle you and close in on you from every side. They will crush you into the ground, and your children with you. Your enemies will not leave a single stone in place, because you did not recognize it when God visited you.]” (Luke 19:41-44).
    Again Jesus mourn for his people.
    “ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kills the prophets, and stones them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not willing! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, you shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord. (Luke 13:34-35)
    Jesus prophesy came true just after 40 years of his death in 70 A.D, Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.
    Can you weep over a city and still the cause is true after 2000years? Yes Jerusalem is still a boiling pot. There are other prophesies hidden here. “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate” Here ‘house’ means the temple. Jews have not yet built a temple.(Synagogue is just a place for Jewish worship). Jesus divinity and His second coming is also indicated. “Verily I say unto you, you shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, “BLESSED IS HE THAT COME IN THE NAME OF THE LORD”
    Hope one day you will understand the love of Jesus perhaps before your death not during NDE

  62. Sakat says:

    And what causes these reactions? Observing at the deepest level
    of reality, he understood that reaction occurs because of
    ignorance.We are unaware of the fact that we react,
    and unaware of the real nature of what we react to. We are ignorant of the impermanent, impersonal nature of our existence and ignorant that attachment to it
    brings nothing but suffering. Not knowing our real nature, we react
    blindly. Not even knowing that we have reacted, we persist in our
    blind reactions and allow them to intensify. Thus we become
    imprisoned in the habit of reacting, because of ignorance.
    This is how the Wheel of Suffering starts turning:

    If ignorance arises, reaction occurs;
    if reaction arises, consciousness occurs;
    if consciousness arises, mind-and-matter occur;
    if mind-and-matter arise, the six senses occur;
    if the six senses arise, contact occurs;
    if contact arises, sensation occurs;
    if sensation arises, craving and aversion occur;
    if craving and aversion arise, attachment occurs;
    if attachment arises, the process of becoming occurs;
    if the process of becoming arises, birth occurs;
    if birth arises, decay and death occur, together with sorrow,
    lamentation, physical and mental suffering,
    and tribulations.
    Thus arises this entire mass of suffering.

    By this chain of cause and effect—conditioned arising—we have
    been brought into our present state of existence and face a future of
    suffering.
    At last the truth was clear to him: suffering begins with ignorance
    about the reality of our true nature, about the phenomenon labelled
    “I”. And the next cause of suffering is “saṅkhara” the mental habit of
    reaction. Blinded by ignorance, we generate reactions of craving and
    aversion, which develop into attachment, leading to all types of
    unhappiness. The habit of reacting is the kamma, the shaper of our
    future. And the reaction arises only because of ignorance about our
    real nature. Ignorance, craving, and aversion are the three roots from
    which grow all our sufferings in life.

  63. Ron says:

    @why
    @Ra thanks for the link.
    This guy Keshuv in the documentary is a real hero fighting against such inhuman discrimination sanctioned by religion.

    This great Hindu scholar Ravishankar says homosexuality was even practiced by Hindu gods and one hindu god was product of homosexuality and homosexuality was not a crime!!!
    His this statement supports the Khajuraho orgies and homosexuality. I am sure there will be some story for bestiality also.

    http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/homosexuality-has-never-been-considered-crime-in-hindu-culture-sri-sri-ravi-shankar_896119.html

  64. Ra says:

    @why, There are millions of untouchables like yourself in India. It’s impossible to count you all. You are like cockroaches. Ya metnak.
    https://youtu.be/LD3HrIRPVhw

  65. Ron says:

    @why
    Hindu devadasi system (temple prostitution) as reported in Indian newspapers

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/185378/schemes-fail-curb-devadasi-practice.html

  66. Ron says:

    @why
    There is a difference between slavery (bonded labor which is happening in certain parts of Africa and in India and Nepal ) and sex-slavery which happens everywhere.
    It is better to fight it rather than justify it (which is what you are doing )
    This is from your Hindustan times
    As a proportion of population (India is number 4 after Mauritania, Haiti and Pakistan)
    http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/modern-slavery-widespread-in-india/article1-1136431.aspx

  67. why? says:

    Ron,

    Slavery and sexual slavery exists in USA even today.

    money.cnn.com/2014/10/21/pf/labor-trafficking/

    They work on U.S. construction sites and farms, in restaurants and hotels, even in homes.

    Foreign workers, lured by false promises of good jobs in America, soon find themselves enslaved in plain sight as victims of labor trafficking, according to a new report published by the nonpartisan Urban Institute and Northeastern University.

    money.cnn.com/2014/03/12/news/economy/underground-sex-economy/index.html?iid=EL

    Inside the underground sex economy

    a study released Wednesday by the Urban Institute’s Justice Policy Center analyzes the size and structure of the underground commercial sex economies in eight major cities: San Diego, Seattle, Dallas, Denver, Washington, D.C., Miami, Atlanta and Kansas City, Missouri.

    Researchers interviewed pimps, traffickers, sex workers and child pornography offenders, as well as local and federal law enforcement officers.

    The way in: Often pimps and prostitutes get into the business because they had a relative who worked in it or a friend who encouraged them. Neighborhood influence, poor job prospects and childhood trauma also played a role.

    Coercion: It’s often assumed that sex workers are physically coerced to work for and stay with a pimp. But researchers found that psychological manipulation played a major role, too — whether it was the promise of attention from the pimp or more tangible incentives.

  68. Ron says:

    Thank you Phoenix for your link.

    Many sites are giving the same translation of the evil and satanic verses in the vedas and manu’s laws. So there seems to be no mis-translation of the vedic verses as alleged by why.
    It is worst type of discrimination see here.

    http://www.ambedkartimes.com/hari_narke.htm
    That is the reason why Dr Ambedkar and his followers have a day dedicated to burn Hindu Scripture-Manu Smriti.

    Dr Ambedkar’s quotes
    It is mischievously propagated by Hindu scriptures that by serving the upper classes the Shudras achieve salvation. Untouchability is another appellation of slavery. No race can be raised by destroying its self-respect. So if you really want to uplift the Untouchables, you must treat them in the social order as free citizens, free to carve out their destiny.

  69. Ron says:

    Thank you Phoenix for your link.
    Many sites are giving the same translation of the evil and satanic verses in the vedas and manu’s laws. So there seems to be no mis-translation of the vedic verses as alleged by why.
    It is worst type of discrimination, see here.

    http://www.ambedkartimes.com/hari_narke.htm
    That is the reason why Dr Ambedkar and his followers have a day dedicated to burn Hindu Scripture-Manu Smriti.

    http://nirmukta.com/2011/08/27/the-status-of-women-as-depicted-by-manu-in-the-manusmriti/
    also see here

    Dr Ambedkar’s quotes

    It is mischievously propagated by Hindu scriptures that by serving the upper classes the Shudras achieve salvation. Untouchability is another appellation of slavery. No race can be raised by destroying its self-respect. So if you really want to uplift the Untouchables, you must treat them in the social order as free citizens, free to carve out their destiny.

    Some people think that religion is not essential to the society. I do not hold this view. I consider the foundations of religion are essential to the society. At the roots of Hindu social system lies a Dharma as prescribed in the Manusmriti. Such being the case I do not think it is possible to abolish the inequality in the Hindu society unless foundations of the Smriti-religion is removed and a better one laid in its place. I however, despair of Hindu society, being able to reconstruct itself on such a better foundation.

    Negatively I reject the Hindu social philosophy propounded in Bhagvad Gita, based as it is on the Triguna of Sankhya Philosophy which in my judgement is a cruel perversion of the philosophy of Kapila, and which had made the caste system of graded inequality the law of Hindu social life.

    Caste cannot be abolished by inter caste dinners or stray instances of inter caste marriages. Caste is a state of mind. It is a disease of mind. The teachings of the Hindu religion are the root cause of this disease. We practice casteism and we observe Untouchability because we are enjoined to do so by the Hindu religion. A bitter thing cannot be made sweet. The taste of anything can be changed. But poison cannot be changed into nectar.

    I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.

    I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.

    I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.

    I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality, and adopt Buddhism as my religion.

  70. why? says:

    Ra says:

    @why?, These Indian woman are ashamed to report their rape to the police. Just like you are ashamed to say that you are an untouchable.
    =================================================

    Prove it with statistics Ra. Personal attacks against me proves nothing. By the way please refer mprevious post on statistics. Do you know every mletcha like yourself is son of a prostitute?

  71. why? says:

    Ron says:
    ===========================================
    That’s the number of rapes reported.

    Ninety percent of the rape cases in India go unreported. Of every 10 women raped in India, nine are afraid to speak up against their perpetrators or do not have access to the social media.
    ============================================

    Now this is what I call as “extrapolation based on guesswork and hunches”.

    This extrapolation is NOT reported by NRCB, but by the website girlsglobe.org…..They are NOT qualified to report on statistics. It is based on a hunch and guesswork.

    Now if you want to know about unreported cases in USA, check the following website. Unlike you, I do NOT provide random websites but your own justice department gives that on an average 68% of rape cases in USA are NOT reported. This means only 1/3 of rape cases are reported in USA. This implies the actual rape rate in USA is 82 per 100,000, while for India even if we assume 90 % not being reported, it is only 1.8*10 = 18 per 100,000 for India. This is still much lower than the rape rates in westernized christian countries that includes USA. Even using the extrapolation of 90 % for India, still USA with 1/3rd population of India has 4 times rape rate as compared to India. Clearly moraLity is lacking for christian countries more than the Hindu India.

    https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates

    Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with 68% still being left unreported.1

    Why Will Only 2 Out of Every 100 Rapists Serve Time?

    The majority of sexual assault are not reported to the police (an average of 68% of assaults in the last five years were not reported).1 Those rapists, of course, will never spend a day in prison. But even when the crime is reported, it is unlike to lead to an arrest and prosecution. Factoring in unreported rapes, only about 2% of rapists will ever serve a day in prison.

    References

    Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2008-2012
    FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, Arrest Data: 2006-2010
    FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, Offenses Cleared Data: 2006-2010
    Department of Justice, Felony Defendents in Large Urban Counties: 2009
    Department of Justice, Felony Defendents in Large Urban Counties: 2009

    So even assuming your imaginary statistics in India,

  72. Sakat says:

    And why does contact occur in the first place? The future Buddha
    saw that because of the existence of the six sensory bases—the five
    physical senses and the mind—contact is bound to occur. The world
    is full of countless phenomena: sights, sounds, odors, flavors,
    textures, various thoughts and emotions. So long as our receivers are
    functioning, contact is inevitable.
    Then why do the six sensory bases exist? Because they are
    essential aspects of the flow of mind and matter. And why this flow
    of mind and matter? What causes it to occur? The future Buddha
    understood that the process arises because of consciousness, the act
    of cognition which separates the world into the knower and the
    known, subject and object, “I” and “other.” From this separation
    results identity, “birth.” Every moment consciousness arises and
    assumes a specific mental and physical form. In the next moment,
    again, consciousness takes a slightly different form. Throughout
    one’s existence, consciousness flows and changes. At last comes
    death, but consciousness does not stop there: without any interval,
    in the next moment, it assumes a new form. From one existence to the
    next, life after life, the flow of consciousness continues.
    Then what causes this flow of consciousness? He saw that it
    arises because of reaction. The mind is constantly reacting, and
    every reaction gives impetus to the flow of consciousness so that it
    continues to the next moment. The stronger a reaction, the greater
    the impetus that it gives. The slight reaction of one moment sustains
    the flow of consciousness only for a moment. But if that momentary
    reaction of liking and disliking intensifies into craving or aversion, it
    gains in strength and sustains the flow of consciousness for many
    moments, for minutes, for hours. And if the reaction of craving and
    aversion intensifies still further, it sustains the flow for days, for
    months, perhaps for years. And if throughout life one keeps
    repeating and intensifying certain reactions, they develop a strength
    sufficient to sustain the flow of consciousness not only from one
    moment to the next, from one day to the next, from one year to the
    next, but from one life to the next.

    continued………….

  73. Ra says:

    @why?, These Indian woman are ashamed to report their rape to the police. Just like you are ashamed to say that you are an untouchable.

  74. Ron says:

    Slavery still exists in India.

    If rape or even murder happens here it will not get reported. This skews the rape figures even more and so we can believe that under-reported rape in India is higher than even 30 cases unreported for 1 reported.

    http://www.freetheslaves.net/where-we-work/india/
    Slavery is everywhere in India. It’s at brick kilns, rice mills, embroidery factories, quarries, and farms. It’s in roadside brothels and private homes.

  75. steve says:

    Ra you said “Those Vedic verses are really satanic verses. They contain so much hatred toward women. This is why so many women are gang raped in India.” The idea that men rape because of religious scriptures is nonsense. sexual attitudes are deeply biologically engrained. “A former Boy Scout, with movie star looks and charm to match crisscrossed the country in search of prey. 30 young girls and women aged 13-26 were raped and murdered before cops finally collared Ted Bundy.”. Sure their will be some environmental influences but the bottom line is I think you will have very limited success trying to educate a sexual predator out of their sexuality.

  76. Ron says:

    @why

    This is from NCRB.
    You habitually tend to dismiss all evidence whenever they are provided by anybody on the forum. You need to remove those glasses of hate and bigotry then you will see things without a bias.

    Now don’t twist this also to suit your views.

    The NCRB (National Crime Record Bureau) of India records a 112 percent rise in the number of reported rapes between 1990 and 2008 in India. In 2011, 24,206 rape cases were reported. That’s 66 rapes a day.

    That’s the number of rapes reported.

    Ninety percent of the rape cases in India go unreported. Of every 10 women raped in India, nine are afraid to speak up against their perpetrators or do not have access to the social media.

    Ninety percent of the rape victims aren’t as lucky as Nirbhaya was.
    http://girlsglobe.org/2013/03/09/behind-the-curtain-on-unreported-rapes-in-india/

  77. Sakat says:

    What causes attachment? How does it arise? Analyzing his own
    nature, the future Buddha found that it develops because of the
    momentary mental reactions of liking and disliking. The brief,
    unconscious reactions of the mind are repeated and intensified
    moment after moment, growing into powerful attractions and
    repulsions, into all our attachments. Attachment is merely the
    developed form of the fleeting reaction. This is the immediate cause
    of suffering.

    What causes reactions of liking and disliking? Looking deeper he
    saw that they occur because of sensation. We feel a pleasant
    sensation and start liking it; we feel an unpleasant sensation and
    start disliking it.Now why these sensations? What causes them? Examining still
    further within himself he saw that they arise because of contact:
    contact of the eye with a vision, contact of the ear with a sound,
    contact of the nose with an odor, contact of the tongue with a taste,
    contact of the body with something tangible, contact of the mind
    with any thought, emotion, idea, imagination, or memory. Through
    the five physical senses and the mind we experience the world.
    Whenever an object or phenomenon contacts any of these six bases
    of experience, a sensation is produced, pleasant or unpleasant.

    continued……..

  78. why? says:

    Ron Says:
    ========================
    If you tweak your own figures with this figures by including unreported crime given by your own newspaper and own government then India is on top in crime.
    “Against one reported rape case, there are at least 30 cases which go unreported”
    Why do you have to defend crime or twist crime reporting?
    ================================

    You must be one of those geniuses Ron…just like those Indian politicians…Lets see your link…It says

    “Another NCP MP and party general secretary Devi Prasad Tripathi said that still most of the rape incidents going unreported. “Time has come that we cannot merely go by statistics of this increasing crime. It is misleading and against one reported rape case there are at least 30 cases which go unreported,” he said.”

    Now how did this genius MP know that 30 cases go unreported?

    If it is unreported, then there is no chance he knows there are 30 unreported cases exactly. ANy idiot can make such claims…Please come with hard statistics before you write nonsense Ron…This is not statistics, it is an individual’s opinion, making mountain out of a mole hill. This is typical of Indian politicians.

    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

    # Country # per 100,000 year
    1 South Africa 132.4 2010
    2 Botswana 92.9 2010
    3 Sweden 63.5 2010
    4 Nicaragua 31.6 2010
    5 Grenada 30.6 2010
    =6 Saint Kitts and Nevis 28.6 2010
    =6 Australia 28.6 2010
    8 Belgium 27.9 2010
    9 United States 27.3 2010
    10 Bolivia 26.1 2010
    11 New Zealand 25.8 2010
    12 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 25.6 2010
    13 Jamaica 24.4 2010
    14 The Bahamas 22.7 2010
    15 Norway 19.2 2010
    16 Guyana 15.5 2010
    17 Finland 15.2 2010
    18 Mexico 13.2 2010
    19 Mongolia 12.4 2010
    20 El Salvador 11 2010
    21 Ireland 10.7 2010
    21 Ireland 10.7 2010
    22 Austria 10.4 2010
    23 Moldova 10.3 2010
    24 Germany 9.4 2010
    25 Netherlands 9.2 2010
    26 Colombia 6.8 2010
    =27 Thailand 6.7 2010
    =27 Belize 6.7 2010
    29 Lithuania 6.3 2010
    30 Estonia 6 2010
    31 Kyrgyzstan 5.9 2010
    32 Senegal 5.6 2010
    33 Poland 4.1 2010
    34 Portugal 4 2010
    35 Mauritius 3.9 2010
    36 Latvia 3.5 2010
    =37 Russia 3.4 2010
    =37 Spain 3.4 2010
    39 Croatia 3.2 2010
    40 Slovenia 3.1 2010
    41 Bulgaria 2.8 2010
    42 Hungary 2.5 2010
    43 Uganda 2.1 2010
    =44 Greece 1.9 2010
    =44 Georgia 1.9 2010
    46 India 1.8 2010

    India fares much better than the demonic christian countries that top in rape rates.

  79. Ron says:

    This is an article in Hindu newspaper.
    It highlights this point.
    If you tweak your own figures with this figures by including unreported crime given by your own newspaper and own government then India is on top in crime.

    “Against one reported rape case, there are at least 30 cases which go unreported”
    Why do you have to defend crime or twist crime reporting?

    Majority of rape cases go unreported: MPs

    http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-newdelhi/majority-of-rape-cases-go-unreported-mps/article5063089.ece

  80. why? says:

    Look at the rape statistics all over the world. The western and Christian nations tops the list per 100,000 people. Even the raw numbers of rape in India dwarfs in comparison to number of rapes committed in USA.

    This shows which civilization (Hindu/Buddhist vs christian) treats its women better.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

    Adjusted for population growth over time, the annual rape rate in India has increased from 1.9 to 2.0 per 100,000 people over 2008-2012 period. This compares to a reported rape rate of 1.2 per 100,000 in Japan, 3.6 per 100,000 in Morocco, 4.6 rapes per 100,000 in Bahrain, 12.3 per 100,000 in Mexico, 24.1 per 100,000 in United Kingdom, 28.6 per 100,000 in United States, 66.5 per 100,000 in Sweden, and world’s highest rate of 114.9 rapes per 100,000 in South Africa.

    http://www.more.com/news/india-rape-capital-world

    Is India the Rape Capital of the World?

    We’re horrified by news reports of rape in India and feel lucky we don’t live there. But the country with the highest rate of sexual assault isn’t India—it’s us

    by Sally Kohn

    In India, a country of over 1.2 billion people, 24,206 rapes were reported in 2011. The same year in the United States, a nation of 300 million, 83,425 rapes were reported. In the United States, every 6.2 minutes a woman is raped.

  81. why? says:

    Look at the rape statistics all over the world. The western and Christian nations tops the list per 100,000 people. Even the raw numbers of rape in India dwarfs in comparison to number of rapes committed in USA.

    This shows which civilization (Hindu/Buddhist vs christian) treats its women better.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

    Adjusted for population growth over time, the annual rape rate in India has increased from 1.9 to 2.0 per 100,000 people over 2008-2012 period. This compares to a reported rape rate of 1.2 per 100,000 in Japan, 3.6 per 100,000 in Morocco, 4.6 rapes per 100,000 in Bahrain, 12.3 per 100,000 in Mexico, 24.1 per 100,000 in United Kingdom, 28.6 per 100,000 in United States, 66.5 per 100,000 in Sweden, and world’s highest rate of 114.9 rapes per 100,000 in South Africa.

    http://www.more.com/news/india-rape-capital-world

    Is India the Rape Capital of the World?

    We’re horrified by news reports of rape in India and feel lucky we don’t live there. But the country with the highest rate of sexual assault isn’t India—it’s us

    by Sally Kohn

    In India, a country of over 1.2 billion people, 24,206 rapes were reported in 2011. The same year in the United States, a nation of 300 million, 83,425 rapes were reported. In the United States, every 6.2 minutes a woman is raped.

  82. Ron says:

    Thank you Phoenix for your link.

    Many sites are giving the same translation of the evil and satanic verses in the vedas, manu’s laws. So there is no mis-translation of the vedic verses as alleged by why.

    It is worst discrimination see here.

    http://nirmukta.com/2011/08/27/the-status-of-women-as-depicted-by-manu-in-the-manusmriti/

    also see here
    http://www.ambedkartimes.com/hari_narke.htm

    No doubt Dr Ambedkar and his followers have a day dedicated to burning the Hindu Scripture Manu-smriti.
    He says that it is a disease of the mind. Now we can understand the rabid hate and continuous denial from proponents.

    Dr Ambedkars quotes

    It is mischievously propagated by Hindu scriptures that by serving the upper classes the Shudras achieve salvation. Untouchability is another appellation of slavery. No race can be raised by destroying its self-respect. So if you really want to uplift the Untouchables, you must treat them in the social order as free citizens, free to carve out their destiny.

    Some people think that religion is not essential to the society. I do not hold this view. I consider the foundations of religion are essential to the society. At the roots of Hindu social system lies a Dharma as prescribed in the Manusmriti. Such being the case I do not think it is possible to abolish the inequality in the Hindu society unless foundations of the Smriti-religion is removed and a better one laid in its place. I however, despair of Hindu society, being able to reconstruct itself on such a better foundation.

    Negatively I reject the Hindu social philosophy propounded in Bhagvad Gita, based as it is on the Triguna of Sankhya Philosophy which in my judgement is a cruel perversion of the philosophy of Kapila, and which had made the caste system of graded inequality the law of Hindu social life.

    Caste cannot be abolished by inter caste dinners or stray instances of inter caste marriages. Caste is a state of mind. It is a disease of mind. The teachings of the Hindu religion are the root cause of this disease. We practice casteism and we observe Untouchability because we are enjoined to do so by the Hindu religion. A bitter thing cannot be made sweet. The taste of anything can be changed. But poison cannot be changed into nectar.

    I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.

    I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.
    I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.

    I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality, and adopt Buddhism as my religion.

  83. why? says:

    Ra says: @why?, Unfortunately, my friend, these Hindu verses are inciting men to treat women like dirt. Your real challenge is not to convince me otherwise but rather to convince men in India that they misunderstand them and that their real meaning is to treat women with respect.
    ===========================================================

    You are one dumbass Ra. What makes you think those Hindu verses incite men in India. Most Hindu men (99.99 %) in India do not even know such verses exist and I am saying this with 100 % certainty. Did you even visit India once to see how Indian men treat their women?

    Stupid fellow, seeing 1 in million crimes committed in India, you idiots think this is the norm in India.

  84. Ra says:

    @why?, Unfortunately, my friend, these Hindu verses are inciting men to treat women like dirt. Your real challenge is not to convince me otherwise but rather to convince men in India that they misunderstand them and that their real meaning is to treat women with respect.

  85. Sakat says:

    There are several types of attachment. First there is the
    attachment to the habit of seeking sensual gratification. An
    addict takes a drug because he wishes to experience the pleasurable
    sensation that the drug produces in him, even though he knows that
    by taking the drug he reinforces his addiction. In the same way we
    are addicted to the condition of craving. As soon as one desire is
    satisfied, we generate another. The object is secondary; the fact is
    that we seek to maintain the state of craving continually, because
    this very craving produces in us a pleasurable sensation that we wish
    to prolong. Craving becomes a habit that we cannot break, an
    addiction. And just as an addict gradually develops tolerance
    towards his chosen drug and requires ever larger doses in order to
    achieve intoxication, our cravings steadily become stronger the
    more we seek to fulfill them. In this way we can never come to the
    end of craving. And so long as we crave, we can never be happy.
    Another great attachment is to the “I,” the ego, the image we
    have of ourselves. For each of us, the “I” is the most important
    person in the world. We behave like a magnet surrounded by iron
    filings: it will automatically arrange the filings in a pattern centered
    on itself, and with just as little reflection we all instinctively try to
    arrange the world according to our liking, seeking to attract the
    pleasant and to repel the unpleasant. But none of us is alone in the
    world; one “I” is bound to come into conflict with another. The
    pattern each seeks to create is disturbed by the magnetic fields of
    others, and we ourselves become subject to attraction or repulsion.
    The result can only be unhappiness, suffering.Nor do we limit attachment to the “I”: we extend it to “mine,” whatever belongs to us. We each develop great attachment to what we possess, because it is associated with us, it supports the image of “I.” This attachment would cause no problem if what one called
    “mine” were eternal, and the “I” remained to enjoy it eternally. But
    the fact is that sooner or later the “I” is separated from the “mine.”
    The parting time is bound to come. When it arrives, the greater the
    clinging to “mine,” the greater the suffering will be.

    continued…..

  86. why? says:

    Phoenix says:

    ================================
    I seriously doubt those texts are mistranslated.They are used by virtually every hindu website.The Mahabharata is translated by an indian,why would he malign his brethren with fake translations?
    ==============================================

    Do you know even elementary Sanskrit Phoenix? I am sure you do not know one letter. Ganguly’s translation of Mahabharatha is one of the worst translations I have ever seen. Just because Ganguly is an Indian, it does NOT mean it is correct. Griffith’s literal translation of Rig Veda is NOT literal in many places, besides Vedic verses are never interpreted literally, unlike your OT or any part of bible. The verses in Rig Veda are mantras, known to have different levels of meaning through hidden language. So just because they are given in Hindu websites, they are not right. None of the verses quoted show any Hindu verse authorizing rape.

    Rest is all BS.

  87. why? says:

    Ra says:
    ================
    Those Vedic verses are really satanic verses. They contain so much hatred toward women. This is why so many women are gang raped in India.
    =====================================================================

    Again, those Vedic verses (whichever) you are referring to have NO rape at all. They are all misinterpretation and mistranslations and misunderstandings. It is very easy to show that. Bring one and I will show you there is NO rape there at all, like your demonic bible verses.

  88. why? says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nawWZYhUWBA

    This is on hindu culture by Arundhati Roya (Booker prize winner and famous author)
    ============================================================

    Suzanna Arundhati Roy is the real name of this woman. She is a Christian from the state of Kerala. No winder she will blabber what she wants about Hinduism. Just because she has some prizes awarded by other christian nations, it does not make her statements true.

    So lets face the truth….this is just religious war declared by christians against every other religion. Truth does not matter here. All that matters for christians is propaganda.

  89. Phoenix says:

    You cannot defend against strawman attacks. Most of the verses quoted are mistranslated and/or misinterpreted, especially the Vedic verses and ones from Mahabharatha.
    It will take a whole website to correctly interpret each and every verse quoted there. None of them talk about obtaining sex-slaves like your barbaric OT.//

    I seriously doubt those texts are mistranslated.They are used by virtually every hindu website.The Mahabharata is translated by an indian,why would he malign his brethren with fake translations?
    Manu is a Hindu Law book,ie. it prescribes permissible and unlawful codes of conduct.Slavery is among the ethical and social norms that is stipulated in that book.And you are correct,the OT does talk about obtaining sex-slaves.I do not dispute that.

    BTW,your use of the term strawman is incorrect.I did not misrepresent your argument by setting up an unrelated proposition with the sole intent of tearing it down.My comments were directed at Ron.

  90. kamose5 says:

    @Ron and A.H.

    You can’t reply to my arguments, so you’re attacking me in person: “frustrated”, “full of hatred” etc. I’m not reinventing history, it is you who is inventing facts. For example, I claimed that Europe produced extemely few scientists in the first 1400 years of the Christian era. You couldn’t disprove it, and you only asserted absolute nonsense such as Christianity advanced science, Arabia was more advanced in science than Europe before Christianity etc. I can only laugh at how brainwashed you are.

    So you can go preach you Christian stupidity somewhere else. What I believe is based on logic and facts. What you believe is based on faith, shallowness and intellectual dishonesty.

  91. Ron says:

    @Ra
    Are you referring to the verses through the link by Phoenix mentioned below?

    //Click here for passages from hindu texts that resemble the very passages from the OT which he despises so much.Ask him why he has failed to mention these verses? //

    http://nastikasmission.blogspot.com/2011/01/exposing-hinduism.html

  92. Ra says:

    Those Vedic verses are really satanic verses. They contain so much hatred toward women. This is why so many women are gang raped in India.

  93. Sakat says:

    The truth of suffering,” the Buddha said, “must be
    explored to its end.” On the night that he was to attain enlightenment, he sat down with the determination not to rise until he had understood how suffering originates and how it can be eradicated.
    Clearly, he saw, suffering exists. This is an inescapable fact, no
    matter how unpalatable it may be. Suffering begins with the
    beginning of life. We have no conscious recollection of existence
    within the confines of the womb, but the common experience is that
    we emerge from it crying. Birth is a great trauma.
    Having started life, we are all bound to encounter the sufferings
    of sickness and old age. Yet no matter how sick we may be, no
    matter how decayed and decrepit, none of us wants to die, because
    death is a great misery.
    Every living creature must face all these sufferings. And as we
    pass through life, we are bound to encounter other sufferings,
    various types of physical or mental pain. We become involved with
    the unpleasant and separated from the pleasant. We fail to get what
    we want; instead we get what we do not want. All these situations
    are suffering.
    These instances of suffering are readily apparent to anyone who
    thinks about it deeply. But the future Buddha was not to be satisfied with the limited explanations of the intellect. He continued probing within himself to experience the real nature of suffering, and he found that “attachment to the five aggregates is suffering.”

    At a very deep level, suffering is the inordinate attachment that each one
    of us has developed toward this body and toward this mind, with its
    cognition’s, perceptions, sensations, and reactions. People cling
    strongly to their identity—their mental and physical being—when
    actually there are only evolving processes. This clinging to an unreal
    idea of oneself, to something that in fact is constantly changing, is
    suffering.

    continued……

  94. Ron says:

    @kamose5 and why.
    You are trying to re-invent history and your anti-Christian posts and tirades are evident of hate and bigotry. The pity is that you are not self-aware of it, but other readers are aware.
    South Korea and China are the places where Christianity is growing the fastest, after that in India.
    Christianity has grown in persecution. Your hate and bigotry cannot stop the peace and love of Christ from touching people.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/encounter/the-rise-of-christianity-in-asia/5934564

  95. A.H. says:

    “why and kamose5 […] are full of hate of Christ, Christians and non-Hindus.”

    Why are these men so frustrated?

    A matter of civilisation(s)?

  96. kamose5 says:

    “why and kamose5 […] are full of hate of Christ, Christians and non-Hindus.”

    You are just confused, my friend. I am not Hindu, not Indian and not religious.

    I don’t hate Jesus. Christians are not followers of Jesus. They are misguided, but I don’t hate them. I do hate Christian missionary activity and apologetics.

    “It was Christian forces which stopped Islam as it spread across the globe”

    Or actually Islam stopped Christianity as it spread around the globe?

    The worst instances of Islamic persecution ever happened in Persia, yet the country was still able to produce great scientists and artists at a time when in Europe there was nothing. Christianity completely destroyed the civilizations of Rome, Greece and Egypt, which were more advanced than Persia. Had Persia fallen to Christians and not to Muslims, its further contribution to the world would have been the same as that of Christian Greece: zero.

    “War conventions were started by Christians when there was nothing present in any part of the world. ”

    Give me a few examples of these laws and prove it to me there were not present in pre-Christian places and times.

    “Christianity was well received by the Europeans and they left Zeus and Thor and other pagan religions for Jesus”

    Are you stupid? Do you even read my posts?

    “Before the advent of Christianity in Europe it was below in scientific progress compare to even Arabia”

    Don’t make up rubbish. Can you name a single pre-Islamic Arab scientist?

    “But after the advent of Christianity they progressed leaps and bounds but Arabia, Asia and Africa lagged behind.”

    This is sheer dementia. Read it again, and take notes: Between the 300s and the 1500s, the Christian world produce exactly TWO scientists worthy of note: Hypatia, who has killed by a Christian mob for not believing in their rubbish, and Fibonacci, who did his studies in Algeria, under Muslim scientists.

    “See North and South Korea.”

    What a lousy argument.

    In Europe, countries where people are leaving Christianity en masse lead in all science: France, UK, Netherlands, Sweden etc. Compare it to Portugal, Spain or Ukraine. But since I’m not stupid, I’m not using that to prove that Christianity is false.

    20% of world Nobel laureates are Jews. These people commit the most serious “blasphemy” of all: they call Jesus a false prophet. The Talmud says Jesus is boiling in excrement in hell, All other religions respect Jesus. In particulat, Muslims claim he was the Messiah. Why isn’t your Christian God doing anything about this?

  97. Ron says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nawWZYhUWBA

    This is on hindu culture by Arundhati Roya (Booker prize winner and famous author)

  98. why? says:

    Ron,

    Your Gee-Zeus is a hypocritical bastard in reality.. A bad seed does not fall far away from the bad tree…

    ==================================
    1) Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    ============================================================

    Matthew 10 14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

    Clearly Gee-Zeus here is cursing those who do not accept his teachings to a situation worse than Sodom and Gomorrah….Is this how he returns good jut for not accepting him or his teachings?

    clearly this hypocrite jeebus is wishing for eternal hell for his enemies who did not accept him or his teachings.

    What happened to his “unconditional” forgiveness….Hypocrites and hate filled evil people advice others one thing and follow their own rules for themselves.

    ================================
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    ================================

    Evil men always ask peolpe to worship themselves as God, otherwise they wish hell upon others….There is a Hindu story where a demon Hiranyakashipu forces others to worship him as God. Real God comes and tears him apart physically.

    In similar way, the real God tore this false man-god Gee-zeus born through illicit relationship through physical punishment. Only evil mean die in such vain-glorious manner.

    ================================
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    ================================

    hahahaha….Have you read any other stories? Every story from appol, Zeus, Mithra etc. all claim to have miracle stories…

    ================================
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    ================================

    Only dead people and mortal men have a tomb. This is why true God does NOT have a tomb at all. God never takes a human body. He is eternal. He is NOT born like a man through a woman’s vagina, unlike your fake man-god Gee-zeus.

    ================================
    7) Jesus birth was divine
    ================================

    hahahahaa……This must be a joke…Do you think God has no other work than making an engaged young girl (engaged to another man) pregnant and run away leaving her to the engaged man?

    What a blasphemy christianity is? It is only Christianity that can be so blasphemous making God Himself less moral than a celibate man.

    Christianity has succeeded to make God an immoral man who impregnates other people’s engaged young girls..and you call this “divine birth”…..you christians are out of your mind…

  99. why? says:

    But Khajuraho is showing bestiality and orgies which was the allowed culture in India (according to Govt guides. You may spin it anyway you want but what official tour guides say is always considered facts). If you see virtue in this culture then your understanding is flawed and your moral compass is not functioning.
    =======================================

    Just because Khajuraho shows it does NOT imply Hinduism authorizes it.

    Manu XI:174. A man who has committed a bestial crime, or has had intercourse in water, or with a menstruating woman, shall perform a Samtapana Krikkhra.

    11.176. An exceedingly corrupt wife let her husband confine to one apartment, and compel her to perform the
    penance which is prescribed for males in cases of adultery.

    11.177. If, being solicited by a man (of) equal (caste), she (afterwards) is again unfaithful, then a Krikkhra and a
    lunar penance are prescribed as the means of purifying her.

    11.178. The sin which a twice-born man commits by dallying one night with a Vrishali, he removes in three
    years, by subsisting on alms and daily muttering (sacred texts).

    These verses show that orthodox Hinduism do NOT authorize orgies or adultery.

  100. why? says:

    @why
    You are quoting the same references in the Wikipedia article but leaving out the part which says OTHERS DO NOT CONSIDER IT . This is being disingenuous. So the inference that it is a place of learning and not necessarily a University is correct,
    ==========================================================

    You conveniently forget, it means OTHERS DO CONSIDER Taxila as University as well.

  101. Ron says:

    @why and kamose5. Apartheid in India by Hindus even today!!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZxAAAiJdg
    If you want Vedas and Laws of Manu laws links then do let me know.

  102. Ron says:

    There is systematic denial of religious apartheid by why and kamose5 as they are full of hate of Christ, Christians and non-Hindus.

    If you read a bit of European history you will know that barbarism, pillaging and tribal infighting was rampant in Europe. When the whole continent did become Christian it did decrease. It increased after the Reformation but most wars were political in nature. The pre-Christian culture and the Viking culture in Europe was barbaric and nothing to glorify.

    It was Christian forces which stopped Islam as it spread across the globe. Islam defeated the pagans (Hindus) easily. It was the British who defeated the Mughals, the Nawabs, Nizams and Sultans and did save India.

    @kamose5 . What Christians churched are depicting in their churches are be depictions of hell (hell fire, gnashing and gnarling) for sinners and not glorifying anything.

    But Khajuraho is showing bestiality and orgies which was the allowed culture in India (according to Govt guides. You may spin it anyway you want but what official tour guides say is always considered facts). If you see virtue in this culture then your understanding is flawed and your moral compass is not functioning.

    @Why and kamose5. When you are blinded by extreme hate towards Christ, Christians and other non-Hindus you will not see the fault and deny existence or even justify of these evils in Hinduism which is happening even NOW .
    @why and kamose5. Temple Prostitutes in India today http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/prostitutes-of-god-2082290.html ( it is not pure lies. This is by independent journalists. If you want proof by Indian Hindu journalists then please let me know)

    @why and kamose5. Apartheid in India by Hindus see video here
    If you want links to Vedas and Manu laws supporting it then do let me know.

    @kamose5 War conventions were started by Christians when there was nothing present in any part of the world. War is bad but it did bring a little sanity when none was present. Child soldiers were used in many parts of the world including Asia but the point, I am making is Christians stopped it first.

    @kamose5. When I made the below statement, on why Christ is different is because they are all collectively and individually true. But you are applying it separately , to explain a bit further.

    I don’t know much about Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and do believe that they never killed anybody much as many individuals who have never harmed anybody. But what makes Christ different is his divinity claims, teachings, practices ,miracles, sacrifice, resurrection and power in his name even today.

    Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    and
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    and
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    and
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    and
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    and
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    and
    7) Jesus birth was divine

    Other teachers do not make or appear to make the above claims (whether it is true or not is another debate)

    You may debate forever about his divinity, virgin birth and miracles and you may consider Jesus, his miracles and divination as a grand conspiracy on a large scale.

    @kamose5 . Torture has been used by all armies all ways and the Hindu kings were no different. Elephants trampling the heads was routinely practiced by Hindu kings.
    In fact it may SURPRISE you that India has STILL NOT RATIFIED the UN treaty against torture. So while others have moved forward to stop torture, Hindus have not.

    @kamose5 Christianity was well received by the Europeans and they left Zeus and Thor and other pagan religions for Jesus. Europeans at least had the brains to know that Zeus and Thor and paganism was wrong. Prosperity, industrial and technological revolution, advancement in science and progress came to the West even as Christianity spread through entire Europe. Before the advent of Christianity in Europe it was below in scientific progress compare to even Arabia and Asia. But after the advent of Christianity they progressed leaps and bounds but Arabia, Asia and Africa lagged behind.

    See North and South Korea. As Christianity grows in South Korea it progressed more compared to North Korea and even compared to India. South Korea had a weaker currency and smaller per capita income than India in 1953 and underwent one of the worst wars since WW2 and is still in a state of war despite an uneasy armistice but after getting Christianized it has outpaced India in per capita income, currency strength, industrialization and exports, quality of life etc.

    I do consider Indians as intelligent and hardworking but do believe that few of them are either thrilled persecuting Christ and Christians or finding it difficult to let go of their bigoted mindsets filled with hate and bigotry towards non-Hindus and anything Western.

    Religious persecution is growing in India at a high rate and according to Pew Forum on Religion the highest persecuted Religion in the world is Christianity.

    If any of you want to remove this hate in your heart then you have to try out Christ and if he does not answer you may continue on your path of hate.

  103. Ron says:

    There is systematic denial of religious apartheid by why and kamose5 as they are full of hate of Christ, Christians and non-Hindus.

    If you read a bit of European history you will know that barbarism, pillaging and tribal infighting was rampant in Europe. When the whole continent did become Christian it did decrease. It increased after the Reformation but most wars were political in nature. The pre-Christian culture and the Viking culture in Europe was barbaric and nothing to glorify.

    It was Christian forces which stopped Islam as it spread across the globe. Islam defeated the pagans (Hindus) easily. It was the British who defeated the Mughals, the Nawabs, Nizams and Sultans and did save India.

    @kamose5 . What Christians churched are depicting in their churches are be depictions of hell (hell fire, gnashing and gnarling) for sinners and not glorifying anything.

    But Khajuraho is showing bestiality and orgies which was the allowed culture in India (according to Govt guides. You may spin it anyway you want but what official tour guides say is always considered facts). If you see virtue in this culture then your understanding is flawed and your moral compass is not functioning.

    @Why and kamose5. When you are blinded by extreme hate towards Christ, Christians and other non-Hindus you will not see the fault and deny existence or even justify of these evils in Hinduism which is happening even NOW .
    @why and kamose5. Temple Prostitutes in India today http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/prostitutes-of-god-2082290.html ( it is not pure lies. This is by independent journalists. If you want proof by Indian Hindu journalists then please let me know)

    @why and kamose5. Apartheid in India by Hindus. see the video here.
    If you want links to Vedas and Manu laws supporting it then do let me know.

    @kamose5 War conventions were started by Christians when there was nothing present in any part of the world. War is bad but it did bring a little sanity when none was present. Child soldiers were used in many parts of the world including Asia but the point, I am making is Christians stopped it first.

    @kamose5. When I made the below statement, on why Christ is different is because they are all collectively and individually true. But you are applying it separately , to explain a bit further.

    I don’t know much about Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and do believe that they never killed anybody much as many individuals who have never harmed anybody. But what makes Christ different is his divinity claims, teachings, practices ,miracles, sacrifice, resurrection and power in his name even today.

    Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    and
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    and
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    and
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    and
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    and
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    and
    7) Jesus birth was divine

    Other teachers do not make or appear to make the above claims (whether it is true or not is another debate)

    You may debate forever about his divinity, virgin birth and miracles and you may consider Jesus, his miracles and divination as a grand conspiracy on a large scale.

    Please see the video below by Dr Ravi (Jesus among other Gods)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0QM-DaOZtM

    @kamose5 . Torture has been used by all armies all ways and the Hindu kings were no different. Elephants trampling the heads was routinely practiced by Hindu kings.
    In fact it may SURPRISE you that India has STILL NOT RATIFIED the UN treaty against torture. So while others have moved forward to stop torture, Hindus have not.

    @kamose5 Christianity was well received by the Europeans and they left Zeus and Thor and other pagan religions for Jesus. Europeans at least had the brains to know that Zeus and Thor and paganism was wrong. Prosperity, industrial and technological revolution, advancement in science and progress came to the West even as Christianity spread through entire Europe. Before the advent of Christianity in Europe it was below in scientific progress compare to even Arabia and Asia. But after the advent of Christianity they progressed leaps and bounds but Arabia, Asia and Africa lagged behind.

    See North and South Korea. As Christianity grows in South Korea it progressed more compared to North Korea and even compared to India. South Korea had a weaker currency and smaller per capita income than India in 1953 and underwent one of the worst wars since WW2 and is still in a state of war despite an uneasy armistice but after getting Christianized it has outpaced India in per capita income, currency strength, industrialization and exports, quality of life etc.

    I do consider Indians as intelligent and hardworking but do believe that few of them are either thrilled persecuting Christ and Christians or finding it difficult to let go of their bigoted mindsets filled with hate and bigotry towards non-Hindus and anything Western.

    Religious persecution is growing in India at a high rate and according to Pew Forum on Religion the highest persecuted Religion in the world is Christianity.

    If any of you want to remove this hate in your heart then you have to try out Christ and if he does not answer you may continue on your path of hate.

  104. Ron says:

    @why
    You are quoting the same references in the Wikipedia article but leaving out the part which says OTHERS DO NOT CONSIDER IT . This is being disingenuous. So the inference that it is a place of learning and not necessarily a University is correct,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxila

    Nature of education[edit]

    By some accounts, Taxilla was considered to be amongst the earliest universities in the world.[4][5][6][7][8] OTHERS DO NOT CONSIDER IT A UNIVERSITY in the modern sense, in that the teachers living there may not have had official membership of particular colleges, and there did not seem to have existed purpose-built lecture halls and residential quarters in Takshashila,[9][10][11] in contrast to the later Nalanda University.[11][12][13]

  105. Ron says:

    There is systematic denial of religious apartheid by why and kamose5 as they are full of hate of Christ, Christians and non-Hindus.

    If you read a bit of European history you will know that barbarism, pillaging and tribal infighting was rampant in Europe. When the whole continent did become Christian it did decrease. It increased after the Reformation but most wars were political in nature. The pre-Christian culture and the Viking culture in Europe was barbaric and nothing to glorify.

    It was Christian forces which stopped Islam as it spread across the globe. Islam defeated the pagans (Hindus) easily. It was the British who defeated the Mughals, the Nawabs, Nizams and Sultans and did save India.

    @kamose5 . What Christians churched are depicting in their churches are be depictions of hell (hell fire, gnashing and gnarling) for sinners and not glorifying anything.

    But Khajuraho is showing bestiality and orgies which was the allowed culture in India (according to Govt guides. You may spin it anyway you want but what official tour guides say is always considered facts). If you see virtue in this culture then your understanding is flawed and your moral compass is not functioning.

    @Why and kamose5. When you are blinded by extreme hate towards Christ, Christians and other non-Hindus you will not see the fault and deny existence or even justify of these evils in Hinduism which is happening even NOW .
    @why and kamose5. Temple Prostitutes in India today http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/ prostitutes-of-god-2082290.html ( it is not pure lies. This is by independent journalists. If you want proof by Indian Hindu journalists then please let me know)

    @why and kamose5. Apartheid in India by Hindus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZxAAAiJdg
    If you want links to Vedas and Manu laws supporting it then do let me know.

    @kamose5 War conventions were started by Christians when there was nothing present in any part of the world. War is bad but it did bring a little sanity when none was present. Child soldiers were used in many parts of the world including Asia but the point, I am making is Christians stopped it first.

    @kamose5. When I made the below statement, on why Christ is different is because they are all collectively and individually true. But you are applying it separately , to explain a bit further.

    I don’t know much about Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and do believe that they never killed anybody much as many individuals who have never harmed anybody. But what makes Christ different is his divinity claims, teachings, practices ,miracles, sacrifice, resurrection and power in his name even today.

    Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    and
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    and
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    and
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    and
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    and
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    and
    7) Jesus birth was divine

    Other teachers do not make or appear to make the above claims (whether it is true or not is another debate)

    You may debate forever about his divinity, virgin birth and miracles and you may consider Jesus, his miracles and divination as a grand conspiracy on a large scale.

    Please see the video below by Dr Ravi (Jesus among other Gods)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0QM-DaOZtM

    @kamose5 . Torture has been used by all armies all ways and the Hindu kings were no different. Elephants trampling the heads was routinely practiced by Hindu kings.
    In fact it may SURPRISE you that India has STILL NOT RATIFIED the UN treaty against torture. So while others have moved forward to stop torture, Hindus have not.

    @kamose5 Christianity was well received by the Europeans and they left Zeus and Thor and other pagan religions for Jesus. Europeans at least had the brains to know that Zeus and Thor and paganism was wrong. Prosperity, industrial and technological revolution, advancement in science and progress came to the West even as Christianity spread through entire Europe. Before the advent of Christianity in Europe it was below in scientific progress compare to even Arabia and Asia. But after the advent of Christianity they progressed leaps and bounds but Arabia, Asia and Africa lagged behind.

    See North and South Korea. As Christianity grows in South Korea it progressed more compared to North Korea and even compared to India. South Korea had a weaker currency and smaller per capita income than India in 1953 and underwent one of the worst wars since WW2 and is still in a state of war despite an uneasy armistice but after getting Christianized it has outpaced India in per capita income, currency strength, industrialization and exports, quality of life etc.

    I do consider Indians as intelligent and hardworking but do believe that few of them are either thrilled persecuting Christ and Christians or finding it difficult to let go of their bigoted mindsets filled with hate and bigotry towards non-Hindus and anything Western.

    Religious persecution is growing in India at a high rate and according to Pew Forum on Religion the highest persecuted Religion in the world is Christianity.

    If any of you want to remove this hate in your heart then you have to try out Christ and if he does not answer you may continue on your path of hate.

  106. Ron says:

    There is systematic denial of religious apartheid by why and kamose5 as they are full of hate of Christ, Christians and non-Hindus.

    If you read a bit of European history you will know that barbarism, pillaging and tribal infighting was rampant in Europe. When the whole continent did become Christian it did decrease. It increased after the Reformation but most wars were political in nature. The pre-Christian culture and the Viking culture in Europe was barbaric and nothing to glorify.

    It was Christian forces which stopped Islam as it spread across the globe. Islam defeated the pagans (Hindus) easily. It was the British who defeated the Mughals, the Nawabs, Nizams and Sultans and did save India.

    @kamose5 . What Christians churched are depicting in their churches are be depictions of hell (hell fire, gnashing and gnarling) for sinners and not glorifying anything.

    But Khajuraho is showing bestiality and orgies which was the allowed culture in India (according to Govt guides. You may spin it anyway you want but what official tour guides say is always considered facts). If you see virtue in this culture then your understanding is flawed and your moral compass is not functioning.

    @Why and kamose5. When you are blinded by extreme hate towards Christ, Christians and other non-Hindus you will not see the fault and deny existence or even justify of these evils in Hinduism which is happening even NOW .
    @why and kamose5. Temple Prostitutes in India today http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/prostitutes-of-god-2082290.html ( it is not pure lies. This is by independent journalists. If you want proof by Indian Hindu journalists then please let me know)

    @why and kamose5. Apartheid in India by Hindus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZxAAAiJdg
    If you want links to Vedas and Manu laws supporting it then do let me know.

    @kamose5 War conventions were started by Christians when there was nothing present in any part of the world. War is bad but it did bring a little sanity when none was present. Child soldiers were used in many parts of the world including Asia but the point, I am making is Christians stopped it first.

    @kamose5. When I made the below statement, on why Christ is different is because they are all collectively and individually true. But you are applying it separately , to explain a bit further.

    I don’t know much about Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and do believe that they never killed anybody much as many individuals who have never harmed anybody. But what makes Christ different is his divinity claims, teachings, practices ,miracles, sacrifice, resurrection and power in his name even today.

    Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    and
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    and
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    and
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    and
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    and
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    and
    7) Jesus birth was divine

    Other teachers do not make or appear to make the above claims (whether it is true or not is another debate)

    You may debate forever about his divinity, virgin birth and miracles and you may consider Jesus, his miracles and divination as a grand conspiracy on a large scale.

    Please see the video below by Dr Ravi (Jesus among other Gods)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0QM-DaOZtM

    @kamose5 . Torture has been used by all armies all ways and the Hindu kings were no different. Elephants trampling the heads was routinely practiced by Hindu kings.
    In fact it may SURPRISE you that India has STILL NOT RATIFIED the UN treaty against torture. So while others have moved forward to stop torture, Hindus have not.

    @kamose5 Christianity was well received by the Europeans and they left Zeus and Thor and other pagan religions for Jesus. Europeans at least had the brains to know that Zeus and Thor and paganism was wrong. Prosperity, industrial and technological revolution, advancement in science and progress came to the West even as Christianity spread through entire Europe. Before the advent of Christianity in Europe it was below in scientific progress compare to even Arabia and Asia. But after the advent of Christianity they progressed leaps and bounds but Arabia, Asia and Africa lagged behind.

    See North and South Korea. As Christianity grows in South Korea it progressed more compared to North Korea and even compared to India. South Korea had a weaker currency and smaller per capita income than India in 1953 and underwent one of the worst wars since WW2 and is still in a state of war despite an uneasy armistice but after getting Christianized it has outpaced India in per capita income, currency strength, industrialization and exports, quality of life etc.

    I do consider Indians as intelligent and hardworking but do believe that few of them are either thrilled persecuting Christ and Christians or finding it difficult to let go of their bigoted mindsets filled with hate and bigotry towards non-Hindus and anything Western.

    Religious persecution is growing in India at a high rate and according to Pew Forum on Religion the highest persecuted Religion in the world is Christianity.

    If any of you want to remove this hate in your heart then you have to try out Christ and if he does not answer you may continue on your path of hate.

  107. Sakat says:

    The real world bears no resemblance to the world of fairy tales in which everyone lives happily ever after. We cannot avoid the truth that life is imperfect, incomplete, unsatisfactory—the truth of the existence of suffering.
    Given this reality, the important things for us to know are
    whether suffering has a cause, and, if so, whether it is possible to
    remove that cause, so that suffering may be removed. If the events
    that cause our suffering are simply random occurrences over which
    we can have no control or influence, then we are powerless and
    might as well give up the attempt to find a way out of suffering. Or
    if our sufferings are dictated by an omnipotent being acting in an
    arbitrary and inscrutable manner, then we ought to find out how to
    propitiate this being so that he will no longer inflict suffering on us.

    The Buddha realized that our suffering is not merely a product of
    chance. There are causes behind it, as there are causes for
    all phenomena. The law of cause and effect—kamma—is universal
    and fundamental to existence. Nor are the causes beyond our
    control.Kamma’The word kamma (or, in its more widely known Sanskrit form,
    karma) is popularly understood as meaning “fate.” Unfortunately,
    the connotations of this word are exactly opposite to what the
    Buddha intended by kamma. Fate is something outside our control,
    the decree of providence, what has been preordained for each one of
    us. Kamma, however, literally means “action.” Our own actions are
    the causes of whatever we experience: “All beings own their deeds,
    inherit their deeds, originate from their deeds, are tied to their deeds;
    their deeds are their refuge. As their deeds are base or noble, so will
    be their lives.”
    1Everything that we encounter in life is the result of our own
    actions. Consequently, we can each become master of our fate by
    becoming master of our actions. Each of us is responsible for the
    actions that give rise to our suffering. Each of us has the means to
    end the suffering in our actions. The Buddha said,You are your own master,
    You make your own future.
    2.As it is, each of us is like a blindfolded man who has never
    learned to drive, sitting behind the wheel of a speeding car on a busy
    highway. He is not likely to reach his destination without mishap.
    He may think that he is driving the car, but actually the car is
    driving him. If he wants to avoid an accident, let alone arrive at his
    goal, he should remove the blindfold, learn how to operate the
    vehicle, and steer it out of danger as quickly as possible. Similarly,
    we must become aware of what we do and then learn to perform
    actions that will lead us where we really wish to go.

  108. why? says:

    Takshashila had great influence on the Hindu culture and Sanskrit language. It is perhaps best known because of its association with Chanakya, also known as Kautilya, the strategist who guided Chandragupta Maurya and assisted in the founding of the Mauryan empire. The Arthashastra (Sanskrit for The knowledge of Economics) of Chanakya, is said to have been composed in Takshashila itself.[49][50] The Ayurvedic healer Charaka also studied at Taxila.[46] He also started teaching at Taxila in the later period.[51] The ancient grammarian Pāṇini, who codified the rules that would define Classical Sanskrit, has also been part of the community at Takshashila.[52]

    The institution is very significant in Buddhist tradition since it is believed[citation needed] that the Mahāyāna branch of Buddhism took shape there. Jivaka, the court physician of the Magadha emperor Bimbisara who once cured the Buddha, and the enlightened ruler of Kosala, Prasenajit, are some important personalities mentioned in Pali texts who studied at Takshashila.
    ======================================

    I think Ron and Phoenix are unable to digest anything good outside their biblical traditions.

  109. why? says:

    Ron,

    Whether Taxila had lecture halls or the like is irrelevant. Your arguments are silly and idiotic to say the least. An ancient University need not necessarily fit the definition of University as per modern standards. None the less, Taxila does qualify for centre of higher learning in the same website. The same website and as per you, Nalanda fits as a University. Nalanda too predates your pious christian lies. Teaching Vedas or Manu smriti does NOT disqualify or diminish any center of learning.

    Radha Kumud Mookerji (2nd ed. 1951; reprint 1989), Ancient Indian Education: Brahmanical and Buddhist (p. 479), Motilal Banarsidass Publ., ISBN 81-208-0423-6:

    “This shows that Taxila was a seat not of elementary, but higher, education, of colleges or a university as distinguished from schools.”

    Radha Kumud Mookerji (2nd ed. 1951; reprint 1989), ”Ancient Indian Education: Brahmanical and Buddhist (p. 478), Motilal Banarsidass Publ., ISBN 81-208-0423-6:

    “Thus the various centres of learning in different parts of the country became affiliated, as it were, to the educational centre, or the central university, of Taxila which exercised a kind of intellectual suzerainty over the wide world of letters in India.”

    Balakrishnan Muniapan, Junaid M. Shaikh (2007), “Lessons in corporate governance from Kautilya’s Arthashastra in ancient India”, World Review of Entrepreneurship, Management and Sustainable Development 3 (1):

    “Kautilya was also a Professor of Politics and Economics at Taxila University. Taxila University is one of the oldest known universities in the world and it was the chief learning centre in ancient India.”

    Needham, Joseph (2004). Within the Four Seas: The Dialogue of East and West. Routledge. ISBN 0-415-36166-4.

    “When the men of Alexander the Great came to Taxila in India in the fourth century BC they found a university there the like of which had not been seen in Greece, a university which taught the three Vedas and the eighteen accomplishments and was still existing when the Chinese pilgrim Fa-Hsien went there about AD 400.”

    Political and social movements in ancient Panjab (from the Vedic age up to the Maurya period), by Buddha Prakash (Motilal Banarsidass, New Delhi, 1964)”Students from Magadha traversed the vast distances of northern India in order to join the schools and colleges of Takshashila. We learn from Pali texts that Brahmana youths, Khattiya princes and sons of setthis from Rajagriha, Kashi, Kosala and other places went to Takshashila for learning the Vedas and eighteen sciences and arts.”

  110. why? says:

    Click here for passages from hindu texts that resemble the very passages from the OT which he despises so much.Ask him why he has failed to mention these verses?

    http://nastikasmission.blogspot.com/2011/01/exposing-hinduism.html
    ===========================================================================

    Simple Phoenix,

    You cannot defend against strawman attacks. Most of the verses quoted are mistranslated and/or misinterpreted, especially the Vedic verses and ones from Mahabharatha.

    It will take a whole website to correctly interpret each and every verse quoted there. None of them talk about obtaining sex-slaves like your barbaric OT.

  111. Ron says:

    Re:Taxila,

    1) Also the Encyclopedia Britannica says
    “Taxila, besides being a provincial seat, was also a centre of learning. It was not a university town with lecture halls and residential quarters, such as have been found at Nalanda in the Indian state of Bihar.”-2007 ), Encyclopedia Britannica

    2) The archeologist who did excavation of Taxila was John Marhsall and he himself stated
    “We come across several Jātaka stories about the students and teachers of Takshaśilā, but not a single episode even remotely suggests that the different ‘world renowned’ teachers living in that city belonged to a particular college or university of the modern type.” • F. W. Thomas (1944), in John Marshall (1951; 1975 reprint), Taxila, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi

    3) Also according to Indian Historian Altekar
    “It may be observed at the outset that Taxila did not possess any colleges or university in the modern sense of the term.” • Anant Sadashiv Altekar (1934; reprint 1965), Education in Ancient India, Sixth Edition, Revised & Enlarged, Nand Kishore & Bros, Varanasi:

    4) UNESCO considers it as a cultural centre.

    5) Lastly if you continue reading your own article if you read further it says that others don’t agree it was a University and kids were going there.

    So to conclude we can say that Taxila was an ancient place of learning but certainly not a University in the modern sense.

    It did teach Vedas and Manu’s law which are considered utterly discriminatory even by Buddhist leaders like (Dr Ambedkar) also.

  112. Ron says:

    We all know that there is lot of hate and bigotry inside “why and kamose5 and some others” due to which they sees evil in Jesus and we have seen that hate has been redefined to justify it.

    When I was approached by Christians first, I laughed at the them and considered them naïve, meek and gullible. I looked at the Christian clergy as hypocrites and when a Christian invited me to his church, I was reluctant but when he invited me to his home, I accepted. Observing his lifestyle, humility, charitable nature and sincere prayerfulness changed me to accept Jesus even as I started reading the Gospels.

    Suddenly, I who was not charitable and lacking compassion became charitable and compassionate and could not see people hungry in front of me. I started supporting charities and orphans in third world countries.
    I do read a lot and travelled extensively to exotic places. You should see the documentary “Shocking Asia” and it will make you visit Asia. I did go to many Hindu, Buddhist and Tibetan shrines in India, Nepal, China and Far East.
    In Asia specially India and Nepal, I saw bribery, corruption, casteism (discrimination based on caste), blind belief, child labour, enslavement of women, children and families, bonded labour, exploitation . This is happening now in the present times.

    Even South Africa has stopped Apartheid. But in India/Nepal it still goes on. It is not surprising when there is hate and bigotry in you towards Christ and Christians then you (why and kamose5 and some others) cannot discern existing evil and will go to any length to defend it.

    @Phoenix Thanks for the site and the valuable info. I am sure that @why and kamose5 will not have answers to justify those evils in the vedas and Manus laws but will go ad hominem.

    My change came not because someone showed me I was wrong in my earlier beliefs but someone challenged/suggested me to try Christ out and I did. It did change me drastically from a cut-throat businessman to a compassionate person.

    There have been many who have tried to exterminate the Bible and one of them was Voltaire who was against Christ and he said in 50 years the Bible will no longer be in existence. But surprisingly after Voltaire died the British and Foreign Bible Society, The French Bible Society and then Fédération Protestante de France have used it to print Bibles and Christian literature.

  113. Phoenix says:

    @Ron

    It seems like why? is a bully.I have come across one other christian bully on this site by the name of Grace.There seems to be quite a few hindu bullies (not most) that fail to understand the difference between Christianity and Islam.No amount of reasoning can convince them that the unsavory biblical verses are not interpreted literally nor accepted as a universal decree.A simple of observation of a lack of christian terror groups or the lack of barbaric laws akin to sharia should suffice but unfortunately there hatred has clouded their judgement.

    I will however give you ammo that could deter why? and company from their tactics.But bare in mind that I do not believe for one second that hinduism resembles Islam,in fact I have respect for the Bhagavad Gita and the hare krishna sect.I also believe hindus have contributed significantly to mathematics and astronomy,second after christian europe of course.In fact,hinduism has contributed more to science and mathematics than the agnostic religions of buddhism,taoism and jainsim.Hindu philosophies,customs,ayurvedic remedies(homeopathic medicine),and yogic practices continue to have a positive influence in the west and around the globe.

    Click here for passages from hindu texts that resemble the very passages from the OT which he despises so much.Ask him why he has failed to mention these verses?

    http://nastikasmission.blogspot.com/2011/01/exposing-hinduism.html

  114. why? says:

    Ron,

    Your Gee-Zeus is a hypocritical bastard in reality.. A bad seed does not fall far away from the bad tree…

    ==================================
    1) Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    ============================================================

    Matthew 10 14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

    Clearly Gee-Zeus here is cursing those who do not accept his teachings to a situation worse than Sodom and Gomorrah….Is this how he returns good jut for not accepting him or his teachings?

    clearly this hypocrite jeebus is wishing for eternal hell for his enemies who did not accept him or his teachings.

    What happened to his “unconditional” forgiveness….Hypocrites and hate filled evil people advice others one thing and follow their own rules for themselves.

    ================================
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    ================================

    Evil men always ask peolpe to worship themselves as God, otherwise they wish hell upon others….There is a Hindu story where a demon Hiranyakashipu forces others to worship him as God. Real God comes and tears him apart physically.

    In similar way, the real God tore this false man-god Gee-zeus born through illicit relationship through physical punishment. Only evil mean die in such vain-glorious manner.

    ================================
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    ================================

    hahahaha….Have you read any other stories? Every story from appol, Zeus, Mithra etc. all claim to have miracle stories…

    ================================
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    ================================

    Only dead people and mortal men have a tomb. This is why true God does NOT have a tomb at all. God never takes a human body. He is eternal. He is NOT born like a man through a woman’s vagina, unlike your fake man-god Gee-zeus.

    ================================
    7) Jesus birth was divine
    ================================

    hahahahaa……This must be a joke…Do you think God has no other work than making an engaged young girl (engaged to another man) pregnant and run away leaving her to the engaged man?

    What a blasphemy christianity is? It is only Christianity that can be so blasphemous making God Himself less moral than a celibate man.

    Christianity has succeeded to make God an immoral man who impregnates other people’s engaged young girls..and you call this “divine birth”…..you christians are out of your mind…

  115. why? says:

    Go to Khajuraho, India and you will see animal sex, orgies, anal sex etc. The Indian Government guides there say that sex in any form was not taboo in pre-British ancient India and India was a free society where everything sexual happened but the British made it a criminal offence.
    ======================================================================

    First of all, Ron, realize that Khajuraho is one of the group of temples among thousand of other temples in India.

    Hinduism is NOT monolithic as you think. Not all follow same type of Hinduism. Did you find every temple in India having similar artforms on their facade.

    Second, Khajuraho group of temples are NOT just Hindu temples. There are Jain temples and HIndu temples together. It is the Jains who are more liberal with expression of human form had explicit sexual figures carved in their facades.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khajuraho_Group_of_Monuments

    Khajuraho temples are famous for their erotic arts. These constitute about 10% of total art displayed at the monuments. Over 90% of the art work at the temple is about daily life and symbolic values in ancient Indian culture.

    Indian government guides simply spit what they have been taught. They are NOT qualified historians.

    ===========================================
    As for sex orgy, please read your bible passages given below.

    Genesis 19:8 Tells of a man named Lot who offers his daughters to a crowd of would be angel rapers. Later, Lot impregnates his own daughters. (Lot’s Incest with his daughter)

    Genesis 38:16-24 Tells a very interesting story of a man named Judah whom lived with his widowed daughter in law. His daughter in law was grieving and wearing the veils of mourning which Judah (a rather stupid man) mistook for the clothing of a prostitute. He ended up impregnating his daughter in law and she left the city. On a later date Judah sees the young woman again and demanded she be burned for being a prostitute (I like how only the woman is punished when THEY BOTH engaged in the sexual act). It wasn’t until Judah recognized the woman as his daughter in law and she was with his child, that he decided not to kill her. Basically, Judah can commit incest, use a prostitute (in his mistaken perception), and impregnate a MUCH younger woman, yet he thinks she is the one deserving of death. (Judah who impregnates his daughter-in-law)

    Hard-core bible:

    Sexual slavery of Pre-pubescent girls: (Numbers 31:17-18)

    Deuteronomy 20:13-15 Kill all the men and boys in the cities that God “delivers into your hands,” but keep the women for raping.

    Deuteronomy 21:11-14 If you see a pretty woman among the captives then just take her home and “go in unto her.”

    Deuteronomy 25:11-12 Says that we must cut off a woman’s hand if she touches the “secrets” of a man who is fighting with her husband…“And thine eye shall not pity her.” Once again, there is no punishment for the man she touched, only the woman.

    Numbers 31: 14-18 Moses tells his men to kill all the males, non-virginal women, elderly and children of the Midianite tribe. Of course, the virgin women are kept for raping. If you read later down in the scripture God states that the Jews can not even marry a Midianite woman (with exception to Moses). Hence these women who were captured were repeatedly raped and impregnated and they weren’t even allowed a marital status in which to protect them. (Rapist Profiteer Moses)

  116. why? says:

    “In South Asia you had the largest and most atrocious religiously (hindu) sanctioned apartheid system in the world which was flourishing and is prevalent even today. Wherein one segment of the society was systematically and religiously enslaving and had put under bondage another segment of the same society. This is worse than slavery.”
    ==================================================================

    In caste system, there was and is NO enslavement of any kind. This is PURE lies spun by missionaries as yourself. Although there is hierarchy, every caste member owns properties, has freedom to chose to leave their work and are paid salary for their work.

    If you take Sudras, they work for Vaisyas (business men) who run various businesses, own farmlands etc. Sudras are paid for their work. Kshatruyas work in administration, while Vaisyas are businessmen who pay taxes to Kshatriyas, ieto their Kings. Brahmins live in donations and through teaching profession. Where is slavery in this?

    At no time did Kshatriyas or Brahmins took Sudras by force and/or takke their women by force as sex slaves. This was the domain of bible following bandits and not that of Vedic system. So please stop comparing to your unjust slavery system taught in bible.

    Slavery constitutes necessarily loss of freedom of every kind, even their daughters, wives and sisters are taken as sex slaves. This is what happened as per bible to unbelievers. Sexual slavery is part of bible and NOT Vedas.

    ================================
    Bonded labour, slavery, Bride burning, child sacrifices, widow burning, temple prostitution, religion supported sexual orgies, bestiality (as depicted in temple art), murder, pillage and theft (Pindhari and Thugs), polyandry and polygamy, child labour, rat worship, snake worship, rat-eating, snake eating, sexual –organ worship was rampant in south Asia specially India.
    =============================================

    Now one by one….Bonded labor and slavery are part of bible. Check Numbers 31:17-18…I bet you cannot find one Vedic verse like this.

    Bride burning, child sacrifice, widow burning etc…are NOT part of Vedic system.
    There is nothing called as temple prostitution. This term was coined by British christian missionaries to wantedly give a bad name to Hinduism.

    Any society will have its downfall at one time or another. Hindu society similarly fell down, when Islamic invasion destroyed its established system.

    Bharatanatyam for example is a classical dance through which temples used to teach public religious lessons. Kings used to employ dancing women and dancing men to conduct musical drama in temples. Art forms like dancing, singing, musical instruments etc. was encouraged in temples. Once the Kings were overthrown in Islamic invasion, the dancers, especially women were taken advantage of by ruthless people among Hindus. This is how it resulted in prostitution of weak people. Hindu scoiety is NOT perfect, but to extend this and say Hinduism encourages temple prostitution is PURE LIES spun by christian missionaries.

    Now compare this with your demonic biblical god authorizing and commanding his followers to commit genocide of men and take their women and even prepubescent girls as sex slaves (Numbers 31:17-18). It is clear which one is barbaric.

    Ron, are you not an Indian christian?

  117. why? says:

    “Taxila in the UNSESCO world heritage site is described as Cultural ancient place and NOT as a university in the modern sense.”
    ============================

    Why should it fit your definition of University? Taxila is none the less an ancient centre of learning, much like modern day Universities. Just because you do not like it, it does NOT become not a center of learning.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxila#Ancient_centre_of_learning

    akshashila became a noted centre of learning (including the religious teachings of Hinduism) at least several centuries BCE, and continued to attract students from around the old world until the destruction of the city in the 5th century. At its height, it has been suggested that Takshashila exerted a sort of “intellectual suzerainty” over other centres of learning in India.,[7] and its primary concern was not with elementary, but higher education.[8] Generally, a student entered Takshashila at the age of sixteen. The Vedas, the ancient and the most revered Hindu scriptures, and the Eighteen Silpas or Arts, which included skills such as archery, hunting, and elephant lore, were taught, in addition to its law school, medical school, and school of military science.[46] Students came to Takshashila from far-off places such as Kashi, Kosala and Magadha, in spite of the long and arduous journey they had to undergo, on account of the excellence of the learned teachers there, all recognized as authorities on their respective subjects.

  118. kamose5 says:

    “If you are thinking that during the dark ages in Europe, it was glorious and peaceful in other parts of the world then you are far from the truth.”

    I am not thinking that. I just wouldn’t wish anybody to live in medieval Europe.

    What I am saying is that Christianity greatly degraded Europe and irrevocably damaged its culture.

    “Go to Khajuraho, India and you will see animal sex, orgies, anal sex etc.”

    That’s true. But why is zoophilia worse that what Christians represented in their churches?

    Go to old Christian churches in places like Georgia, Armenia, Egypt etc. – that is, closer to the origin of the faith. On their walls, you will see demons disemboweling people in hell, snakes suffocating people, wolves biting their heads etc. More horrible than Khajuraho.

    “It was the British who banned the Sati (bride-burning)”

    True. But Sati is not a real Hindu (Vedic) practice; it is tribal nonsense. Show me a single Hindu text which sanctions sati. It probably claimed a few hundred deaths a year. That doesn’t make up for the hundreds of millions of famine victims in British India.

    Your favourite people, the British, practiced hanging, drawing and quartering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered) well into the 19th century, often for crimes as great as being Catholic in a Protestant country. While cutting the victim’s genitals and taking away their intestines, they used to recite the Psalms.

    “There were no war conventions wherein use of child soldiers was rampant in Africa, Arabia”

    Ever heard about the crusade of children?

    “1) Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies”

    Why are these teaching correct?

    “4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God”

    Many Egyptian pharaohs, Roman emperors, Greek despots, Mesopotamian and Persian kings as well as lunatics of all times did the same.

    “5) Jesus did miracles others did not”

    It’s interesting you admit you know little about them yet you know they did not do miracles. Sikhs claim Guru Nanak did miracles. A huge number of people (many of them not religious figures! ) are said to have done miracles. How can you check who did miracles and who did not? But yes, ignorance is bliss.

    “6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    7) Jesus birth was divine”

    All of this is based on faith, not a tiny bit on logic. Similarly, Alawites say Ali ibn Abi Talib was divine because he was born in Kaaba.

    Christianity is a highly derivative religion. There’s nothing more common in ancient religions than stories of virgin births and resurrections.

    Jesus was the son of Jewish woman named Mary and of a Roman soldier named Pandera or Panthera. What is divine about that?

    ” If it were enforced you would find the Red Indians/first Nations who were completely defeated to be majority Christian but they are not.”

    Flawed logic.

    Perhaps you agree that Islam practiced forced conversion (they’re still doing in Pakistan). Nevertheless, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Yazidism, Druze, Sikhism, Hinduism, Yarsanism, Mandaeanism all survived in Islamic lands. Can you name a SINGLE European religion that survived the onslaught of Christianity?

  119. Sakat says:

    All of us seek peace and harmony, because this is what
    we lack in our lives. We all want to be happy; we regard it as our
    right. Yet happiness is a goal we strive toward more often than
    attain. At times we all experience dissatisfaction in life
    —agitation, irritation, disharmony, suffering. Even if at this moment we are free
    from such dissatisfaction’s, we can all remember a time when they
    afflicted us and can foresee a time when they may recur. Eventually
    we all must face the suffering of death.
    Nor do our personal dissatisfaction’s remain limited to ourselves;
    instead, we keep sharing our suffering with others. The atmosphere
    around each unhappy person becomes charged with agitation, so that
    all who enter that environment may also feel agitated and unhappy.
    In this way individual tensions combine to create the tensions of
    society.
    This is the basic problem of life: its unsatisfactory nature. Things
    happen that we do not want; things that we want do not happen. And
    we are ignorant of how or why this process works, just as we are
    each ignorant of our own beginning and end.
    Twenty-five centuries ago in northern India, a man decided to
    investigate this problem, the problem of human suffering. After
    years of searching and trying various methods, he discovered a way
    to gain insight into the reality of his own nature and to experience
    true freedom from suffering. Having reached the highest goal of
    liberation, of release from misery and conflict, he devoted the rest of
    his life to helping others do as he had done, showing them the way
    to liberate themselves.
    This person- “Siddhattha Gotama”, known as the Buddha, “the
    enlightened one”—never claimed to be anything other than a
    man. Like all great teachers he became the subject of legends, but no
    matter what marvelous stories were told of his past existences or his
    miraculous powers, still all accounts agree that he never claimed to
    be divine or to be divinely inspired. Whatever special qualities he
    had were pre-eminently human qualities that he had brought to
    perfection. Therefore, whatever he achieved is within the grasp of
    any human being who works as he did.

  120. Ron says:

    If you are thinking that during the dark ages in Europe, it was glorious and peaceful in other parts of the world then you are far from the truth.

    In South Asia you had the largest and most atrocious religiously (hindu) sanctioned apartheid system in the world which was flourishing and is prevalent even today. Wherein one segment of the society was systematically and religiously enslaving and had put under bondage another segment of the same society. This is worse than slavery.

    Bonded labour, slavery, Bride burning, child sacrifices, widow burning, temple prostitution, religion supported sexual orgies, bestiality (as depicted in temple art), murder, pillage and theft (Pindhari and Thugs), polyandry and polygamy, child labour, rat worship, snake worship, rat-eating, snake eating, sexual –organ worship was rampant in south Asia specially India.

    This was never stopped by the Muslims who ruled parts of India but efforts to eradicated them were done by the British. Slavery and Bonded labour still exists in rural parts of India as casteism is still thriving.

    The banking and bankruptcy laws wherein the son doesn’t have to perpetually pay the fathers/forefathers/brothers unpaid loan was started by Christians. Before that in India if a man took a loan and he could not pay the interest and the principal (his son and then grandson would have to pay it).

    It was the British who banned the Sati (bride-burning), Pindhari and Thugs movement (religious robbery and killing of travellers), encouraged widow –remarriage, had laws cancelling feudal loans, forbidding child labor, temple prostitution etc. I was surprised to see child labor thriving in Indian subcontinent & Africa. Crime against women and children is very high in India as well as Nepal (of course Africa also).

    Go to Khajuraho, India and you will see animal sex, orgies, anal sex etc. The Indian Government guides there say that sex in any form was not taboo in pre-British ancient India and India was a free society where everything sexual happened but the British made it a criminal offence. Now whether you want to call it violence against animal and women is your take. Polygamy was highly practised in Africa and Asia (including India). Polyandry was more in India.

    There were no war conventions wherein use of child soldiers was rampant in Africa, Arabia which goes on still today. War is bad but a little sanity to war was brought about by the Geneva conventions, Red Cross , St John ambulance etc. which were started by Christianity.

    I don’t know much about Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and do believe that they never killed anybody much as many individuals who have never harmed anybody. But what makes Christ different is his divinity claims, teachings, practices ,miracles, sacrifice, resurrection and power in his name even today.

    1) Jesus said forgive others unconditionally.
    2) Jesus said Bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies
    3) Jesus said Don’t return evil for evil but return good for evil.
    4) Others showed a way to god but Jesus said I am God
    5) Jesus did miracles others did not
    6) Jesus’s tomb is empty others have a tomb
    7) Jesus birth was divine

    Other teachers do not make or appear to make the above claims (whether it is true or not is another debate)
    You may debate forever about his divinity, virgin birth and miracles and you may consider Jesus, his miracles and divination as a grand conspiracy on a large scale.
    Please see the video below by Dr Ravi (Jesus among other Gods)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0QM-DaOZtM

    The Bible says that you are fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of God and that you are the pinnacle of his creation bestowed with intelligence and wisdom. In the eyes of Jesus you are not inferior in any way and the way of salvation is open to all.

    Lastly for your information, please note that Christ did not order to kill anybody. OT is history and the Jews as they were moving and settling in the promised land and were always in a state of war.

    When Jesus was confronted with the woman caught red-handed he said let those who have never sinned caste the first stone and got her freed. (Mohamed on the other hand had a similar case wherein the woman confessed herself (and was not caught red-handed) and asked for mercy, but Mohamed never spared her and got the woman killed).

    In the Gospels most conversions to Christianity were not enforced. If it were enforced you would find the Red Indians/first Nations who were completely defeated to be majority Christian but they are not.
    South Asia which was ruled by the British for more than 200 years would have been significantly Christian but it is not.

    The largest killings of human life by humans took place in the 20th century alone and was more than all the earlier wars in history combined.

    The majority of the killings were by communists /atheists (Stalin and Mao) killed 100-120 million between them) , Adolf Hitler (not a Christian)-20 million , Pol Pot, Kim il Sung and communist leaders, Gen Tojo -15 million etc.

    Muslim rulers and dictators in the Arabia, Africa like Saddam Hussein, Khomeini, Idi Amin, Bashar Al Assad, Habre, Turabi, Omar, Yayha khan had also a significant share.
    Also killings were made by the Americans on the Natives, Colonial Powers on their colonies, tribal wars in Africa, partition/ communal violence in Indian subcontinent but they all are pale in comparison to killings by Mao/Stalin and the communists.

  121. kamose5 says:

    @A.H.

    ““Since the judgment of the people who compiled the Bible was so poor,”

    What do you mean by that?”

    I already told you. I don’t think the crimes and absurdities in the Bible mix well with Jesus’s teachings.

    Jesus was certainly aware of all the Old Testament nonsense. There are only two possibilities. Both of them imply that Christianity is false.

    1) Jesus did tell people that Old Testament is a bunch of lies and depravity. Therefore, since the holy book of Christians does contain the Old Testament, it means that all of them are in error.

    2) Jesus approved of the Old Testament. In that case, he legitimized murder and savage ignorance, so he erred greatly in spiritual, intellectual and moral matters.

    Therefore, Christianity is false.

    “Get acquainted with the Christian faith, in other words what have Christians to say about themselves what they believe, internet is a good source of information avoid hearsay.”

    I am more than acquainted with the Christian faith. I won’t write here any of my 100000 disagreements with the Christian faith, that would be a waste of time.

    “A mere assertion, you have to prove it. But if it is true it is or was not dictated by the Christian faith, but it are or were actions of sinful men who happen(ed) to be Christians.”

    Did you read my previous post on Christian crimes? Why didn’t they happen to be Jains? Or Hindus? Or Buddhists? Or Sikhs? Or Zoroastrians?

    Why do sinful people so often happen to be Christians?

  122. Ron says:

    I am reposting this as the earlier post used a TYPO “proscribing” instead of “PRESCRIBING” in the second paragraph.

    Taxila in the UNSESCO world heritage site is described as Cultural ancient place and NOT as a university in the modern sense.

    Researching I found that The Laws of Manu PRESCRIBING and ADVOCATING casteism (most religiously (hindu) sanctioned apartheid system in the world) as enshrined in the Vedas was taught there.

    According to Dr Ambedkar (He wrote the Indian constitution) was very much against Manu’s laws. These are his views.

    The Hindu social order was based on the Four Verna system i.e. Chaturvarna Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. These varnas are designed as the different floors of the building without a stair case. This is the ladder of inequality. There is no parallel in world of such a discriminatory and cruel system of human subjugation as the Indian caste system. The caste system has the sanction of all Hindu scriptures.

    Ramayana
    In Ramayana, Ram kills Shambuka simply because he was performing tapasya (ascetic exercises) which he was not supposed to do as he was a Shudra by birth.

    Mahabharata
    In Mahabharata, Dronacharya refuses to teach archery to Eklavya, because he was not a Kshatriya by birth. When Eklavya, treating Drona as his notional guru, learns archery on his own, Drona makes him cut his right thumb as gurudakshina (gift for the teacher) so that he may not become a better archer than his favorite Kshatriya student Arjuna!

    Bhagvadgita
    The much-glorified Bhagvat-Gita, too, favors varna-vyavastha. When Arjuna refuses to fight, one of his main worries was that the war would lead to the birth of varna-sankaras or offspring from intermixing of different varnas and the consequent “downfall” of the family. On the other hand, Krishna tries to motivate Arjuna to fight by saying that it was his varna-dharma (caste-duty) to do so because he was a Kshatriya. In fact, Krishna goes to the extent of claiming that the four varnas were created by him only.

    Dr Ambedkar made 22 vows and some notable ones are below
    1. I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.
    2. I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.
    3. I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.
    4. I shall believe in the equality of man.
    5. I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality.

    So the very act of killing humans (murder or manslaughter) was performed by Ram, Krishna, Mohamed, Ali etc. and never by Jesus.

  123. A.H. says:

    “Do these quotes imply that Islam is true?”

    Good question!

    “I, for one, don’t hate Jesus at all.”

    Good!

    “And I don’t hate Christians.”

    Fine!

    “Since the judgment of the people who compiled the Bible was so poor,”

    What do you mean by that?

    “how can I know for sure what Jesus said and what he didn’t say?”

    Another good question!, it will take years to know if you are already interested in.

    “How can I really follow him then?”

    Get acquainted with the Christian faith, in other words what have Christians to say about themselves what they believe, internet is a good source of information avoid hearsay.

    Start for example with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus founded, it contains the Christian doctrines over 2000 years.

    “But, if he was that cosmic, why didn’t he tell us that the religion made in his name will kill more humans than all the other religions combined?”

    A mere assertion, you have to prove it. But if it is true it is or was not dictated by the Christian faith, but it are or were actions of sinful men who happen(ed) to be Christians.

  124. kamose5 says:

    @Ron

    Quoting famous people is not only a logical fallacy but also an indication that your faith has very little to rest upon. You can’t search for quotes to support your faith (i.e. external validation) if you have the slightest degree of internal validation. Therefore, you are not convinced of your faith. If you want your universe to be utterly ruined, check quotes on Islam by Gandhi, Hegel, Godel, Nietzsche, Goethe – all non-Muslim and unbiased people. Do these quotes imply that Islam is true?

    I, for one, don’t hate Jesus at all. And I don’t hate Christians. I dislike only those who tell me I am inferior to them by not following the Christian herd.

    But I don’t believe Christianity is the religion of Jesus. Some of the teaching of Jesus seem really good, both simple and profound. But the people who put them in the same book as the plagues of Egypt and the Apocalypse were no doubt insane. Since the judgement of the people who compiled the Bible was so poor, how can I know for sure what Jesus said and what he didn’t say? How can I really follow him then?

    I actually appreciate Jesus, despite the little information I have about him. But how one can think of a human as a god is beyond me. Jesus was indeed an exceptionally kind man – by the standards of the time and place he was born in. But, if he was that cosmic, why didn’t he tell us that the religion made in his name will kill more humans than all the other religions combined?

    Also, your argument “Jesus never killed anybody, everybody else did” is of course ignorant. Did Buddha, Zarathustra, Guru Nanak, Mahavira kill anybody? Why is Jesus above them?

    About your point that Christianity is right because of the scientific and technical progress in Christian countries. I fully debunked this trash in my previous comment.

  125. Ron says:

    Famous peoples quotes on Jesus.

    Some people in this forum have immense hatred for Jesus, Christianity and Christians and have tried to redefine the definition of “hate” so that it suits them and they can justify their inner hate and I don’t understand why?

    I have some quotes of famous personalities most of whom were not Christians at some or all period in their lives as such their quotes are definitely not biased.

    A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act. –Mahatma Gandhi.

    Even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old. –Fyodor Dostoyevsky

    I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between Him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creation of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. –Napoleon

    Jesus of Nazareth, without money and arms, conquered more millions than Alexander the Great, Caesar, Mohammed, and Napoleon; without science and learning, he shed more light on things human and divine than all philosophers and scholars combined; without the eloquence of school, he spoke such words of life as were never spoken before or since, and produced effects which lie beyond the reach of orator or poet; without writing a single line, he set more pens in motion, and furnished themes for more sermons, orations, discussions, learned volumes, works of art, and songs of praise than the whole army of great men of ancient and modern times. –Philip Schaff

    I am an historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.–H.G. Wells

    As the centuries pass, the evidence is accumulating that, measured by His effect on history, Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on this planet. — Historian Kenneth Scott LaTourette

    Jesus was the greatest religious genius that ever lived. — Ernest Renan

    There is something so pure and frank and noble about Him that to doubt His sincerity would be like doubting the brightness of the sun. — Charles Edward Jefferson

    A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic – on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg – or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.–C.S. Lewis

    I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday not as an invention of the community of disciples, but as a historical event. If the resurrection of Jesus from the dead on that Easter Sunday were a public event which had been made known…not only to the 530 Jewish witnesses but to the entire population, all Jews would have become followers of Jesus. –Pinchas Lapide, Orthodox Jewish scholar, Germany (born 1922)

    If I, as an Oriental have to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way, that is, to worship him as God and nothing else. — Swami Vivekananda

    Jesus Christ was God — the Personal God become man. He has manifested Himself many times in different forms and these alone are what you can worship. God in His absolute nature is not to be worshipped. Worshipping such God would be nonsense. We have to worship Jesus Christ, the human manifestation, as God. You cannot worship anything higher than the manifestation of God. The sooner you give up the worship of God separate from Christ, the better for you.” — Swami Vivekananda

    “Those in the West who have adopted Christ as their own should remember that he was an Oriental. Love and sympathy for Jesus should be expanded into love and sympathy for all Orientals, and for all the world.” — Paramahansa Yogananda

    “Every event in the life of Christ, because he is born of the Spirit, is to be seen as a universal-symbolic stage of spiritual life; Christhood is the state of glorious interior illumination in which divine wisdom has become heritage of the soul”. Dr Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan

    The ultimate liberative experience in Hinduism is described as aham Brahma asmi, i.e. the realisation that I am That (Absolute). Only Jesus Christ is capable of identifying that Truth with Himself (“I and the Father are one”). –Swami Akhilananda (1894-1962)

    When you earnestly search, you will find the Way, the Truth and the Life

  126. Ron says:

    Taxila in the UNSESCO world heritage site is described as Cultural ancient place and NOT as a university in the modern sense.

    Researching I found that The Laws of Manu proscribing casteism (most religiously (hindu) sanctioned apartheid system in the world) as enshrined in the Vedas was taught there.

    According to Dr Ambedkar (He wrote the Indian constitution) was very much against Manu’s laws. These are his views.

    The Hindu social order was based on the Four Verna system i.e. Chaturvarna Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. These varnas are designed as the different floors of the building without a stair case. This is the ladder of inequality. There is no parallel in world of such a discriminatory and cruel system of human subjugation as the Indian caste system. The caste system has the sanction of all Hindu scriptures.

    Ramayana
    In Ramayana, Ram kills Shambuka simply because he was performing tapasya (ascetic exercises) which he was not supposed to do as he was a Shudra by birth.

    Mahabharata
    In Mahabharata, Dronacharya refuses to teach archery to Eklavya, because he was not a Kshatriya by birth. When Eklavya, treating Drona as his notional guru, learns archery on his own, Drona makes him cut his right thumb as gurudakshina (gift for the teacher) so that he may not become a better archer than his favorite Kshatriya student Arjuna!

    Bhagvadgita
    The much-glorified Bhagvat-Gita, too, favors varna-vyavastha. When Arjuna refuses to fight, one of his main worries was that the war would lead to the birth of varna-sankaras or offspring from intermixing of different varnas and the consequent “downfall” of the family. On the other hand, Krishna tries to motivate Arjuna to fight by saying that it was his varna-dharma (caste-duty) to do so because he was a Kshatriya. In fact, Krishna goes to the extent of claiming that the four varnas were created by him only.

    Dr Ambedkar made 22 vows and some notable ones are below
    1. I shall have no faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh nor shall I worship them.
    2. I shall have no faith in Rama and Krishna who are believed to be incarnation of God nor shall I worship them.
    3. I shall have no faith in ‘Gauri’, Ganapati and other gods and goddesses of Hindus nor shall I worship them.
    4. I shall believe in the equality of man.
    5. I renounce Hinduism which is harmful for humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality.

    So the very act of killing humans (murder or manslaughter) was performed by Ram, Krishna, Mohamed, Ali etc. and never by Jesus.

  127. A.H. says:

    “Gee-Zeus is Lord”

    The catechism of the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus founded, reads:

    IV. Lord

    446 In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the ineffable Hebrew name YHWH, by which God revealed himself to Moses,59 is rendered as Kyrios, “Lord”. From then on, “Lord” becomes the more usual name by which to indicate the divinity of Israel’s God. the New Testament uses this full sense of the title “Lord” both for the Father and – what is new – for Jesus, who is thereby recognized as God Himself.60

    447 Jesus ascribes this title to himself in a veiled way when he disputes with the Pharisees about the meaning of Psalm 110, but also in an explicit way when he addresses his apostles.61 Throughout his public life, he demonstrated his divine sovereignty by works of power over nature, illnesses, demons, death and sin.

    448 Very often in the Gospels people address Jesus as “Lord”. This title testifies to the respect and trust of those who approach him for help and healing.62 At the prompting of the Holy Spirit, “Lord” expresses the recognition of the divine mystery of Jesus.63 In the encounter with the risen Jesus, this title becomes adoration: “My Lord and my God!” It thus takes on a connotation of love and affection that remains proper to the Christian tradition: “It is the Lord!”64

    449 By attributing to Jesus the divine title “Lord”, the first confessions of the Church’s faith affirm from the beginning that the power, honour and glory due to God the Father are due also to Jesus, because “he was in the form of God”,65 and the Father manifested the sovereignty of Jesus by raising him from the dead and exalting him into his glory.66

    450 From the beginning of Christian history, the assertion of Christ’s lordship over the world and over history has implicitly recognized that man should not submit his personal freedom in an absolute manner to any earthly power, but only to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Caesar is not “the Lord”.67 “The Church. . . believes that the key, the centre and the purpose of the whole of man’s history is to be found in its Lord and Master.”68

    451 Christian prayer is characterized by the title “Lord”, whether in the invitation to prayer (“The Lord be with you”), its conclusion (“through Christ our Lord”) or the exclamation full of trust and hope: Maranatha (“Our Lord, come!”) or Maranatha (“Come, Lord!”) – “Amen Come Lord Jesus!”69

  128. kamose5 says:

    why? is right. Passive observer, please do an IQ test and show me the result.

    “1.5 billion followers of Koran produced only three Nobel prize winners”

    Again I am asking: What the hell does the evilness or goodness of a religion have to do with the number of its Nobel laureates?

    Read the Talmud. You’ll find there clear instruction as to how to treat the “goyim” (non-Jews): they are not humans, killing them is justified etc. In the Old Testament, “God” is commiting a genocide against ALL Egyptians for the sake of Jews. Why did the Jews have 20% of all Nobels? Because their religion is peaceful?

    Carl Sagan (who despised the Bible and was one of 20th century’s most famous scientists) famously said: “A millennium before Europeans were willing to divest themselves of the Biblical idea that the world was a few thousand years old, the Mayans were thinking of millions and the Hindus billions.”. Pioneers of quantum physics, such as Niels Bohr, Erwin Schrodinger or Werner Heisenberg were greatly influenced by Hinduism. To this date, science points out that Hindu cosmology came very close to the truth – in sheer constrast with the book of paranoid fiction which posits that the Earth is 6000 years old!

    Now you want to know how many Hindus got the Nobel prize? Four! In fact (apart from Israel which is Western in origin) there is only non-Western country in the world with many Nobels. The country is Japan. Rings a bell?

    You know why Japan? Because Japan is exactly the only country in the world that has never been destroyed by Christian beasts! There is only one thing which explains the differences in Nobel Prizes today, and it is called COLONIALISM, and it was exclusively the work of Christians!

    Let’s make a brief outline of Christianity. When Christianity became official in the Roman Empire, emperor Theodosius declared all non-Christians and “heretics” as foolish madmen . In less than two years, the great civilizations of Rome, Greece and Egypt, and their temples (Serapheum, Delphi) were savagely destroyed by Christians. The “saints” of the period, Ambrose and Augustine, advocated that pagans must be flogged. So much for Christian tolerance!

    For almost one milennium and a half, Europe was ignorant, dirty, stinky and savage. Independent though was punished with death. Galileo Galilei, one of the greatest scientific minds who ever lived, was forced to renounced his theories because they contradicted the paranoid book of fiction you revere as holy. He compelled under threat of death. Giordano Bruno and Miguel Servet were less lucky. They were burned at the stake.

    Between the 300s and the 1500s, the Christian world produce exactly TWO scientists worthy of note: Hypatia, who has killed by a Christian mob for not believing in their rubbish, and Fibonacci, who did his studies in Algeria, under Muslim scientists.

    As for your demented claim that Christianity invented universities, Christianity destroyed universities. The Academy of Athens had been there for almost one millenium when a piece of rubbish known as emperor Justinian closed it. The man is now regarded as a saint in Christianity. The scholars from Athens took refuge at the Academy of Gundishapur in Persia, which was NOT a Christian country and fought valiantly against Christian agression.

    Things improved when Europeans found America. Now they had a whole continent to rape and pillage. The Catholic Church happily concluded that the natives had no souls, so the colonists felt free to exterminate them.

    The scourge got even more demonic when Protestant Christians arrived there. Protestants held literal belief in the Bible much higher that Catholics, and believed in sola fide, that is, if you believe in their rubbish you go to Heaven, if you don’t you go to Hell. Your deeds don’t matter. Even the Catholics (less literal Christians) would agree that the evil done by these fundamentalist Christian monsters is unimaginable. Today, USA, Canada and Australia (mostly Protestant countries) have together less indigenous people than the tiny Guatemala.

    The genocide of hundreds of million of Amerindians, together with the slave trade that followed immensely improved the economy of Europe. Science and technology flourished in Europe, for the first time after they were crushed by Christianity. But mass murder continued.

    The Russians butchered their way all up to the Pacific and Alaska. They sent missionaries to “civilize” the natives. Every native who refused to convert was killed. Almost no trace of these people remained today, same as in the USA. India was greatly despised by its British conquerors. Hinduism was referred as India’s nonsense. English writers, like Dickens, proposed the extermination of Indians. Hundreds of millions of Indians died of starvation in British India, which was exporting its food to Britain. This is how the industrial revolution was possible.

    Christian savage mentality persisted well into the 20th century. One of the most famous psychopats in history, Winston Churchill, thought the Indians were beasts, and their religion beastly. He said the killing of Native Americans was not a crime, and he compared them to dogs.

    Now please defend the religion of peace!

  129. Ra says:

    @my friend why?!, Gee-Zeus is the Lord!

  130. why? says:

    Science took off in the 16th century and grew in the Christian universities.(monasteries turned into universities) University is a Christian invention.
    ===================================================================

    Universities are NOT Christian invention. Indian subcontinent have had educational institutions or centers of learning since more than 2000 years. Taxila for example was established 600 BC. Athens had higher learning centers since 300 BC. So please spare the world with your pious christian lies. Learning centers were part of culture of pre-christian era. It is christianity which destroyed these centers of learning as pagan. In India, it was destroyed by islam.

    If anything, it is despite christianity that Universities were established. Didn’t church persecute early scientists?

  131. @KamoseS
    You lack common sense. 1.5 billion followers of Koran produced only three Nobel prize winners.(apart from Peace prizes) Similarly if the Bible is evil there can be only five or six Nobel laureates. It is clearly not the case. Moreover Bible is called a Judeo-Christian Bible. First 39 books are common to both Jews and Christians. The Ten Commandments, the core values of humanity was given 4000 yrs ago to the Jews, is a common theme throughout the Bible. Jesus often used the Ten Commandments in his preaching.
    The philosophical foundations of modern science were laid in the 14th century. Technological innovations in Europe, took place in Christian monasteries. St. Benedict, the Father of Europe and his monks who made. WATERMILL, WINDMILL, CARNKSHAFT, FLYWHEEL LATEEN SAIL in their monasteries .Eilmer of Malmesbury, England was a Benedictine monk who made a glider and attempted to fly 600 metres and broken his legs in 1010 A.D. Jesuits were the pioneers in the development of Seismology, particularly Frederick Odenbach S.J.
    Science took off in the 16th century and grew in the Christian universities.(monasteries turned into universities) University is a Christian invention. The Catholics who built Bologna University (1088 A.D), Paris (1150 ), Oxford (1196), Cambridge (1206). It was the age of scholasticism. The Protestants who built Harvard (1636), Princeton (1746) etc. Although there were scientific inventions in India and China and among Buddhist monks, but science did not develop further due to lack of universities at that time. When the world ignored the deaf and the blind as their fate , destiny and Karma, the compassionate Christians who found ways and means to educate them.
    Today hundreds of thousands of schools, colleges, and other educational institutions are run by various Christian denominations, in more than 190 countries and making the world a better place to live in. Many of the Nobel laureates (atheists agnostics included) studied in the Christian institutions. Amartya Sen a Nobel laureate is a Hindu, but studied in Trinity, Cambridge. He advised Tony Blair government to promote Christian schools in England.
    If you don’t accept these facts your world view is flawed. I will not have any further communication on this subject. I have a respect for Dr. Ali Sina whose mind is always open for new facts. He was an atheist, and now accepted “Jesus as the Son of the living God” after watching NDEs.
    Jesus said “Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice”

  132. why? says:

    Steve, you are just wasting my time going round and round to the same useless point.

    “Yes you understand what the person is going through – this is not an emotional response but a cognitive ability. You then imagine yourself in their place, this then motives you to help.”

    Cognition of what? You must have cognitive ability to feel other person’s emotional, physical and mental pain. This is necessarily ability to “feel” to certain extent. To “feel” is to have an emotion. So compassion necessarily involves emotions only.

    “You have an emotional hatred of ideas? Sure owning sex slaves is harmful for human well being but why have an emotional hatred for it?”

    Suppose we do not have emotional feeling at all for some other person ending up as sex slave. Why do we need to even bother? You said it is harmful for human well-being. Why should we bother about human well-being for others? Unless you have emotional feelings for others and emotionally feel for his/her well-being, there need not be any opposition for sexual-slavery. Why should we bother?

    Since we feel compassion or love for others, we insist some actions are wrong. Now again, you will go back to same point again, saying compassion is not feeling. I think, I am talking to a person with much less understanding of his own emotions, one who cannot even understand that compassion or love is an emotion.

    “He knew his revolutionary ideas would upset the social order of his primitive society – they are the ones who wanted to kill and torture him remember. Jesus made it clear his kingdom is not of this world give to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is Gods. He threatened nobody and even when Roman soldiers came for him and Peter drew his sword he told him to put it away as “those that live by the sword die by the sword”.

    Jeebus was a sly cunning individual. Listen very carefully.

    He did not say his ideas will cause war and division.

    He clearly said he came not to establish peace, but a “sword”, ie. to create division and war.

    There is an ocean of difference between these two statements. One who knowingly causes strife and division is evil necessarily.

    “Where does Jesus preach hate? He doesn’t. Furthermore you claim hatred is Im fact a good thing so this is a odd claim to be made by you.”

    Hating evil people is not at all bad. I did not say hate those who do not accept me. However, one who teaches to hate others just because they do not accept you or your teaching is definitely evil person.

    “That’s your interpretation, by “sword” he means the sword of truth and wisdom – he doesn’t mean going around literally slaughtering people. If that where the case then he would not have forbid his disciples from using their swords.”

    You are the one misintrepreting here Steve, NOT ME.

    “Sword” is a symbol of war and of violence. This is a weapon used to kill enemies. There is no interpretation here. Evil Jeebus used this symbol wantedly to make a point that he wishes violence.

    Second, although jeebus fobid Peter not to use sword, his goal to create division and war cannot be undermined. Some do violence through sly means, through their mere words and some through action.

    “Jesus also didn’t practice the savage law of OT, when the rabbis attempted to trick him by saying stone a prostitute as it is commanded in our laws he responded by saying “he who is without sin throw the first stone”.

    First of all, orthodox rabbis even today want death penalty for those who do not follow Noahide laws. I have had conversations with Rabbis from Chabad. Orthodox Jews do believe in OT laws literally.

    Now as for jeebus, he being a sly cunning man, he escaped the claws of orthodox Jews through his cunning words.

    Can you show one place where this man jeebus has condemned any of the barbaric OT laws? Has he said, stoning law is ungodly explicitly? Has he explicitly said, slavery and sexual slavery is ungodly evil practice? If not, why not? Instead he has openly said in gospel, that not one word or title of OT law will go away.

    This is what I call a cunning sly evil man would do, to slyly get out of sticky situations. Evil Jeebus would qualify very well to become modern day sly politician.

    “Jesus says if they do not accept you then as you leave that city shake the dust from your sandals, …. You think Jesus is really comparable to that? If so you are not thinking rationally and are just consumed by blind hatred.”

    Stevo o Stevo.,,,,please….you are wantedly missing the part where evil jeebus wishes for the worst punishment on those who reject him. Why are you avoiding this stevo? He said their end would be worse than that of sodom and gomorrah…THIS IS IMPORTANT….

    The difference between Mo and Jeebus is one of action. While jeebus did not kill them, this evil man wanted and wished for total destruction of entire towns….DO NOT leave this part…This shows how evil jeebus’ mind is. He wishes for destruction just like Mo…only has no guts for action…He is a coward as well…

    “If you bothered to read the chapter Jesus is saying because of his teaching his disciples will be hated and persecuted. Evil people – people consumed by hatred of the truth – are already in hell.”

    What truth? There is no truth here…All he has taught is accept me or let them know they will end up in hell….Who with the right mind will accept such men who teach hell and blind belief…

    “Because they are obviously the miracles are made up stories, read this the gnostic gospel of Thomas the Jesus in here is very much like Buddha – he speaks in parables to explain very wise concepts and is not a magic man.”

    If you pick and choose only what you want, then I cannot argue because you will simply chose only what you like, your imaginary character. I am not fighting against your imaginary character and I am not interested. I am talking about the character in bible. This jeebus is necessarily evil one. How do you know jeebus did not insist on blind belief? The texts clearly show he believed he was son of god and he had a mission.

    “Wikipedia says this about the gnostic gospels “The sayings of the Gospel of Thomas, compiled circa 140, may include some traditions even older than some of the gospels of the New Testament, possibly as early as the second half of the first century” Here is the gospel of Thomas if you’re interested http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

    Why would you chose one odd unaccepted gospel and claim this is the true jeebus? If you want to like jeebus and build another tradition around him, go ahead…This is of absolutely no interest to me as this is ur love affair with this character. My interest is to blot out this character which has given rise to much evil the world.

  133. kamose5 says:

    @passive observer: People like you should not be allowed access to a keyboard

    “If the Bible is evil how it was possible that out of 820 or so Nobel Prize Winners 800 were influenced by the Bible (180 Jews 620 Christians)”

    Are you stupid? Firstly, your numbers are made up: many of your Jews and Christians were agnostics, deists or atheists. Secondly, how does reading an evil book prevent you from winning a Nobel Prize? Also, how does being a nominal Jew or Christian imply that you’ve read the Bible?

    Not to mention that Christians think that Jesus was God, whereas Jews think he was the most dangerous of all false prophets. Obviously, if either one of this beliefs is true, the other is EXTREMELY wrong. Why doesn’t your nonsensical God punish the party with the extremely wrong belief?

    “We must be chosen to understand Jesus.”

    Certainly you weren’t chosen to understand basic reasoning, let alone Jesus.

  134. steve says:

    “Every definition of this word includes emotional feelings one feels for another person” Then that’s just blind emotion. Animals have this feeling you are talking about – it is an automatic response biologically hard wired into the organism. True – human – compassion arises out of recognising that other people exist with their own mind. You then recognise the other person is suffering and do what you can to relieve that suffering.

    “Does Understanding entail the other persons physical, emotional and any other mental needs of the person? Your argument is utter nonsense” Yes you understand what the person is going through – this is not an emotional response but a cognitive ability. You then imagine yourself in their place, this then motives you to help.

    “Dislike for taste or smell, is not the same as that of ideas. You are comparing apples and oranges. I may not like to eat pork or smell of sea food, but disliking ideas like owning sex slaves, is based on emotions or feelings.” You have an emotional hatred of ideas? Sure owning sex slaves is harmful for human well being but why have an emotional hatred for it? You may as well have an emotional hatred for cancer and waste your energy hating it and raging about it.

    “This is your interpretation. But when evil jeebus himself comes and says he came NOT to establish peace, but a sword, it means exactly that. His goal is to cause war and division. He knowingly did cause division and war. This is a sign of evil man” He knew his revolutionary ideas would upset the social order of his primitive society – they are the ones who wanted to kill and torture him remember. Jesus made it clear his kingdom is not of this world give to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is Gods. He threatened nobody and even when Roman soldiers came for him and Peter drew his sword he told him to put it away as “those that live by the sword die by the sword”.

    Jeebus may not say it, but his actions prove he is full of hatred” Where does Jesus preach hate? He doesn’t. Furthermore you claim hatred is Im fact a good thing so this is a odd claim to be made by you.

    “The use of the word “sword” means war, death and violence.” That’s your interpretation, by “sword” he means the sword of truth and wisdom – he doesn’t mean going around literally slaughtering people. If that where the case then he would not have forbid his disciples from using their swords.

    “The OT god loved the smell of burning flesh in his nostrils and this NT demon also loves blood flow, division and war.” The stories in OT are myths all historians know this, their was never an Moses or great exodus for example. Jews (most of them anyway) fortunately are intelligent enough to not interpret their books literally and disregard most of its primitive morals. Jesus also didn’t practice the savage law of OT, when the rabbis attempted to trick him by saying stone a prostitute as it is commanded in our laws he responded by saying “he who is without sin throw the first stone”.

    Matthew 10 14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
    “So evil jeebus is saying just because some town did not accept his teachings, they would suffer hell and suffering. Now how is this different than muhammad who asked towns to be slaughtered just because they did not accept him? ” Jesus says if they do not accept you then as you leave that city shake the dust from your sandals, Muhammed says if a town doesn’t accept me then all the men will be slaughtered all the women will be taken as sex slaves and the children sold into slavery and all their wealth that you steal 20% of it is for me. You think Jesus is really comparable to that? If so you are not thinking rationally and are just consumed by blind hatred.
    “Both your jeebus and muhammad wants entire town to suffer ultimately, just for not accepting them. This is the common nature of evil people. Evil peoplelike jeebus or muhammad cannot accept rejection. They want those who reject them to suffer, either really or through wishful thinking.” If you bothered to read the chapter Jesus is saying because of his teaching his disciples will be hated and persecuted. Evil people – people consumed by hatred of the truth – are already in hell.
    “This is your opinion. Can you show me one place where evil jeebus suggested knowledge is important. You cannot. Rest is your blind belief bout jeebus.” If you strip away the bullshit and myth you will see Jesus was a very wise person.
    “This is the claims of today’s Christians not Jesus himself.”
    “How do you know that jeebus did not teach blind belief? Gospels clearly show he insisted blind belief in himself.” Because they are obviously the miracles are made up stories, read this the gnostic gospel of Thomas the Jesus in here is very much like Buddha – he speaks in parables to explain very wise concepts and is not a magic man. Wikipedia says this about the gnostic gospels “The sayings of the Gospel of Thomas, compiled circa 140, may include some traditions even older than some of the gospels of the New Testament, possibly as early as the second half of the first century” Here is the gospel of Thomas if you’re interested http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

  135. why? says:

    Steve,

    Before you spout more nonsense that compassion is NOT feeling, go through the link.

    http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/compassion/definition

    What Is Compassion?

    Compassion literally means “to suffer together.” Among emotion researchers, it is defined as the feeling that arises when you are confronted with another’s suffering and feel motivated to relieve that suffering.

    While cynics may dismiss compassion as touchy-feely or irrational, scientists have started to map the biological basis of compassion, suggesting its deep evolutionary purpose. This research has shown that when we feel compassion, our heart rate slows down, we secrete the “bonding hormone” oxytocin, and regions of the brain linked to empathy, caregiving, and feelings of pleasure light up, which often results in our wanting to approach and care for other people.

  136. why? says:

    “Compassion is not an emotion, ”

    Now are you out of your mind Steve?

    compassion
    kəmˈpaʃ(ə)n/
    noun
    noun: compassion; plural noun: compassions

    sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.
    “the victims should be treated with compassion”
    synonyms: pity, sympathy, feeling, fellow feeling, empathy, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercy, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, tolerance, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence

    Every definition of this word includes emotional feelings one feels for another person.

    “it stems from understanding the reality of another persons situation, and imagining yourself in their place. This is not emotion.”

    Does Understanding entail the other persons physical, emotional and any other mental needs of the person? Your argument is utter nonsense.

    “Yes but ideas themselves don’t do anything, human beings do. mein kampf contains hitlers ideas and thoughts, but the book itself doesn’t cause any harm, can we torture and punish a book? No we can’t.”

    Who said we want to punish books? I am talking about intense dislike for ideas. This is hatred.

    “Again doesn’t make sense, I have an intense dislike of the smell of dog shit but that doesn’t mean I hate ( in an emotional sense) the smell of dog shit.”

    Dislike for taste or smell, is not the same as that of ideas. You are comparing apples and oranges. I may not like to eat pork or smell of sea food, but disliking ideas like owning sex slaves, is based on emotions or feelings.

    “When you speak the truth and expose people’s delusions they will hate you and this will cause division.”

    This is your interpretation. But when evil jeebus himself comes and says he came NOT to establish peace, but a sword, it means exactly that. His goal is to cause war and division. He knowingly did cause division and war. This is a sign of evil man.

    Did Buddha or Hindu teachers come and say they have come to create division and death wantedly?

    “He is saying the evil people are the ones who hate the good. When evil people see good and hear truth they feel hate. Nowhere Jesus say he has hate, he says others hate him for what he teaches.”

    Jeebus may not say it, but his actions prove he is full of hatred. Why else would he say that those who do not accept him would suffer a fate worse than sodom and gomorrah. This is hatred and .

    Second, Read his sentence….

    Matthew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Here he is openly saying that his goal is to bring division and war and death. The use of the word “sword” means war, death and violence.

    Will a benevolent being do such a thing? Only evil demonic beings will have such goals, as they feed on flesh and blood. The OT god loved the smell of burning flesh in his nostrils and this NT demon also loves blood flow, division and war.

    “Yes evil people are already in hell and are suffering right here on earth.”

    Let me recall for you.

    Matthew 10 14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

    So evil jeebus is saying just because some town did not accept his teachings, they would suffer hell and suffering. Now how is this different than muhammad who asked towns to be slaughtered just because they did not accept him?

    Both your jeebus and muhammad wants entire town to suffer ultimately, just for not accepting them. This is the common nature of evil people. Evil peoplelike jeebus or muhammad cannot accept rejection. They want those who reject them to suffer, either really or through wishful thinking.

    “The nonsense and myth in the bible was obviously added later, when you strip away the myths you get a very wise person.”

    This is your opinion. Can you show me one place where evil jeebus suggested knowledge is important. You cannot. Rest is your blind belief bout jeebus.

    “This is the claims of today’s Christians not Jesus himself.”

    How do you know that jeebus did not teach blind belief? Gospels clearly show he insisted blind belief in himself. You make unfounded claims about the evil man gee-zeus.

  137. Ron says:

    @why,
    I agree with you that there are a lot of crazy Christians out there and there crazy in every religion.

    But I am more reminded of Gandhi who said “I like your Christ but not your Christianity”

    I knew more about other belief systems before I found Christ to be different. In fact I laughed at Christians. I was an inquirer and did question everything just like Dr Subodh Pandit.

    If you have time look at BBC’s Shocking Asia documentary. For me it intrigued me and made me feel that I should visit these places. On visit to South Asia, I found lot of inequality, a religiously instituted caste system , religious fanaticism, animal, idol worships, blind beliefs, lack of compassion for the poor, child labour, poverty, crime etc. Nevertheless I did visit Buddhist and Hindu temples and shrines.

    As I did my shopping and dining in some areas wherein I was treated very well there were nearby outside the homeless, sick and the hungry. Even the rich business owners who were predominantly Hindu, or Buddhist or Muslim never felt compassion and did very little to help the poor who were just outside their premises, in fact they treated them as dirt. Many places of businesses and restaurants kept images of their gods and worshipped them when the patrons bought or ate there and next moment where using expletives against workers and the needy outside. I found it strange but did not care thinking this is their way of life. Also even I did not feel compassion towards the needy earlier in life (i.e. before accepting Christ).

    But after accepting Christ, I felt compassion towards all homeless and hungry and the needy wherever I met them whether in my hometown or elsewhere. Never before did I feel compassion towards the needy earlier in life. Christ does change you. Even Gandhi adopted non-violence from Christ’s teachings.

    I don’t know if Naghma was a prostitute but if she was as what you say, then I believe her testimony is more uplifting as she is coming out from a life of darkness and sin to Christ.

    The reason, I posted testimonies of Indian professionals and celebrities is that you don’t need to check their degrees or identity as they are on the public domain specially on the web.

    This is a testimony of mother of Tennis Player Mahesh Bhupathi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AINJwSGkGXM

    and this if of Mahesh Bhupathi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RccGnpqqs

    Try inviting Christ in your life at least for a week and check it out then go back to your life if you feel he doesn’t answer.

    If you are averse to taking the name of Christ then pray as below sincerely for a week “O God who made me come into my life through dreams and visions and show me the right path, if not I will continue my current belief system.” He does answer. Peace be with you.

  138. steve says:

    “You must have emotion called compassion for others to justify not harming others. The reason you or I for not harming others is sympathy or even empathy.” Compassion is not an emotion, it stems from understanding the reality of another persons situation, and imagining yourself in their place. This is not emotion.

    “This is intense dislike or loathing or hatred for such ideas.” Yes but ideas themselves don’t do anything, human beings do. mein kampf contains hitlers ideas and thoughts, but the book itself doesn’t cause any harm, can we torture and punish a book? No we can’t.

    “Intense dislike is hatred for certain ideas.” Again doesn’t make sense, I have an intense dislike of the smell of dog shit but that doesn’t mean I hate ( in an emotional sense) the smell of dog shit.

    “Besides, didn’t jeebus himself say he did not come to establish peace in the world, but a sword” When you speak the truth and expose people’s delusions they will hate you and this will cause division.

    “Only evil people would sow the seeds of division and hatred. His teachings are full of hatred.” He is saying the evil people are the ones who hate the good. When evil people see good and hear truth they feel hate. Nowhere Jesus say he has hate, he says others hate him for what he teaches.

    “Didn’t he say that those who do not accept him would have suffering worse than sodom and gomorrah” Yes evil people are already in hell and are suffering right here on earth.

    “He insisted on blind belief and NOt on knowledge” The nonsense and myth in the bible was obviously added later, when you strip away the myths you get a very wise person.

    “HIs philosophical teachings are nowhere similar to Buddha nor Hindu teachings, where direct perception and knowledge is the key to one’s salvation, not blind belief” This is the claims of today’s Christians not Jesus himself.

  139. Atheist,
    If the Bible is evil how it was possible that out of 820 or so Nobel Prize Winners 800 were influenced by the Bible (180 Jews 620 Christians) There are some Nobel Prize winners like Bertrand Russel said they were agnostics. However initially there were influence by the Bible and achieved greatness.
    How is that 130 Christians majority countries are comparatively repeat comparatively in peace.
    Jesus said “Not everyone seeing sees; not everyone hearing hears”
    Please remember Jesus also said “Many are called but few are chosen”
    We must be chosen to understand Jesus.

  140. Phoenix says:

    @ Atheist

    Perhaps I can respond to all your biblical quotes.Would you appreciate it if I did that? But first,do one thing for me. Can you admit that Muhammad was a pedophile and thief and that Allah is not God but the invention of a sick man?

    If you do this then I will respond to your verses.How about that?

  141. Atheist says:

    Bible quotes-

    Don’t Rob God

    “Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! “But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’ “You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the LORD Almighty, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not shrivel before they are ripe,” says the LORD Almighty. (Malachi 3:8-11 NLT)

    (Doesn’t it seem really stupid that an all-powerful God claims he can bring food and grapes to the masses but he can’t even feed himself?)

    Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

    Natural Disasters are God’s Wrath

    The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

    Pillage and Plunder

    For the land of Israel lies empty and broken after your attacks, but the LORD will restore its honor and power again. Shields flash red in the sunlight! The attack begins! See their scarlet uniforms! Watch as their glittering chariots move into position, with a forest of spears waving above them. The chariots race recklessly along the streets and through the squares, swift as lightning, flickering like torches. The king shouts to his officers; they stumble in their haste, rushing to the walls to set up their defenses. But too late! The river gates are open! The enemy has entered! The palace is about to collapse! Nineveh’s exile has been decreed, and all the servant girls mourn its capture. Listen to them moan like doves; watch them beat their breasts in sorrow. Nineveh is like a leaking water reservoir! The people are slipping away. “Stop, stop!” someone shouts, but the people just keep on running. Loot the silver! Plunder the gold! There seems no end to Nineveh’s many treasures – its vast, uncounted wealth. Soon the city is an empty shambles, stripped of its wealth. Hearts melt in horror, and knees shake. The people stand aghast, their faces pale and trembling. (Nahum 2:2-10 NLT)

    An Angry Jealous God

    “I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, ‘Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won’t need to strike again.’ But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn.” So now the LORD says: “Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. “On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)

    God Will Kill Ethiopia

    “You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword,” says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. “In all the world there is no city as great as I,” it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist. (Zephaniah 2:12-15 NLT)

    God’s Human Slaughter Fest

    Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD’s judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. “On that day of judgment,” says the LORD, “I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters’ homes with loot. “On that day,” says the LORD, “a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. “I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem’s darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. “That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes – a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD’s anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! “Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground.” Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD’s anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth. (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)

    God Will Kill Everyone

    “I will sweep away everything in all your land,” says the LORD. “I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity,” says the LORD. “I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD’s guidance or seek my blessings.” (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

    Old is New

    Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment, for it is an old one you have always had, right from the beginning. This commandment – to love one another – is the same message you heard before. Yet it is also new. (1 John 2:7-8 NLT)

    (This is not evil, but it is just so stupid I just had to post it.)

    Prayer Cures the Sick

    Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

    (This passage is evil because people who believe it may not get proper medical treatment for their sick children.)

    Fire Breathing Dragons

    “Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? “Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook? “Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words? “Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him for a servant forever? “Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you bind him for your maidens? “Will the traders bargain over him? Will they divide him among the merchants? “Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears? “Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle; you will not do it again! “Behold, your expectation is false; Will you be laid low even at the sight of him? “No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him; Who then is he that can stand before Me? “Who has given to Me that I should repay {him?} {Whatever} is under the whole heaven is Mine.

    “I will not keep silence concerning his limbs, Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame. “Who can strip off his outer armor? Who can come within his double mail? “Who can open the doors of his face? Around his teeth there is terror. “{His} strong scales are {his} pride, Shut up {as with} a tight seal. “One is so near to another That no air can come between them. “They are joined one to another; They clasp each other and cannot be separated. “His sneezes flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. “Out of his mouth go burning torches; Sparks of fire leap forth. “Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth As {from} a boiling pot and {burning} rushes. “His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes forth from his mouth. “In his neck lodges strength, And dismay leaps before him. “The folds of his flesh are joined together, Firm on him and immovable. “His heart is as hard as a stone, Even as hard as a lower millstone.

    “When he raises himself up, the mighty fear; Because of the crashing they are bewildered. “The sword that reaches him cannot avail, Nor the spear, the dart or the javelin. “He regards iron as straw, Bronze as rotten wood. “The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones are turned into stubble for him. “Clubs are regarded as stubble; He laughs at the rattling of the javelin. “His underparts are {like} sharp potsherds; He spreads out {like} a threshing sledge on the mire. “He makes the depths boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a jar of ointment. “Behind him he makes a wake to shine; One would think the deep to be gray-haired. “Nothing on earth is like him, One made without fear. “He looks on everything that is high; He is king over all the sons of pride.” (Job 41:1-34 NAS)

    Hammer Tent Peg Into Head

    Meanwhile, Sisera ran to the tent of Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, because Heber’s family was on friendly terms with King Jabin of Hazor. Jael went out to meet Sisera and said to him, “Come into my tent, sir. Come in. Don’t be afraid.” So he went into her tent, and she covered him with a blanket. “Please give me some water,” he said. “I’m thirsty.” So she gave him some milk to drink and covered him again. “Stand at the door of the tent,” he told her. “If anybody comes and asks you if there is anyone here, say no.” But when Sisera fell asleep from exhaustion, Jael quietly crept up to him with a hammer and tent peg. Then she drove the tent peg through his temple and into the ground, and so he died. When Barak came looking for Sisera, Jael went out to meet him. She said, “Come, and I will show you the man you are looking for.” So he followed her into the tent and found Sisera lying there dead, with the tent peg through his temple. So on that day Israel saw God subdue Jabin, the Canaanite king. And from that time on Israel became stronger and stronger against King Jabin, until they finally destroyed him. (Judges 4:17-24 NLT)

    Murder and Slavery

    The tribe of Benjamin, however, failed to drive out the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem. So to this day the Jebusites live in Jerusalem among the people of Benjamin. The descendants of Joseph attacked the town of Bethel, and the LORD was with them. They sent spies to Bethel (formerly known as Luz), who confronted a man coming out of the city. They said to him, “Show us a way into the city, and we will have mercy on you.” So he showed them a way in, and they killed everyone in the city except for this man and his family. Later the man moved to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city. He named the city Luz, and it is known by that name to this day. The tribe of Manasseh failed to drive out the people living in Beth-shan, Taanach, Dor, Ibleam, Megiddo, and their surrounding villages, because the Canaanites were determined to stay in that region.

    When the Israelites grew stronger, they forced the Canaanites to work as slaves, but they never did drive them out of the land. The tribe of Ephraim also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, and so the Canaanites continued to live there among them. The tribe of Zebulun also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron and Nahalol, who continued to live among them. But they forced them to work as slaves. The tribe of Asher also failed to drive out the residents of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, and Rehob. In fact, because they did not drive them out, the Canaanites dominated the land where the people of Asher lived. The tribe of Naphtali also failed to drive out the residents of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath. Instead, the Canaanites dominated the land where they lived. Nevertheless, the people of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath were sometimes forced to work as slaves for the people of Naphtali. As for the tribe of Dan, the Amorites forced them into the hill country and would not let them come down into the plains. The Amorites were determined to stay in Mount Heres, Aijalon, and Shaalbim, but when the descendants of Joseph became stronger, they forced the Amorites to work as slaves. (Judges 1:21-35 NLT)

    Micah Kills a Whole Town

    Then, with Micah’s idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel’s son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT)

    (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

    Ten Thousand Murdered at God’s Command

    After Joshua died, the Israelites asked the LORD, “Which tribe should attack the Canaanites first?” The LORD answered, “Judah, for I have given them victory over the land.” The leaders of Judah said to their relatives from the tribe of Simeon, “Join with us to fight against the Canaanites living in the territory allotted to us. Then we will help you conquer your territory.” So the men of Simeon went with Judah. When the men of Judah attacked, the LORD gave them victory over the Canaanites and Perizzites, and they killed ten thousand enemy warriors at the town of Bezek. While at Bezek they encountered King Adoni-bezek and fought against him, and the Canaanites and Perizzites were defeated. Adoni-bezek escaped, but the Israelites soon captured him and cut off his thumbs and big toes. Adoni-bezek said, “I once had seventy kings with thumbs and big toes cut off, eating scraps from under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them.” They took him to Jerusalem, and he died there. The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem and captured it, killing all its people and setting the city on fire. (Judges 1:1-8 NLT)

    Kill All of Babylon

    “Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you,” says the LORD. “Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction”. (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

    Canaan Enslaved for Absurd Reason

    Noah, a man of the soil, was the first to plant a vineyard. He drank some of the wine and became drunk, and he lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, he said, “Cursed be Canaan; lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers.” He also said, “Blessed by the Lord my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. May God make space for Japheth, and let him live in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave.” (Genesis 9:20-27 NRSV)

    Family Killed

    Then Zimri, who commanded half of the royal chariots, made plans to kill him. One day in Tirzah, Elah was getting drunk at the home of Arza, the supervisor of the palace. Zimri walked in and struck him down and killed him. This happened in the twenty-seventh year of King Asa’s reign in Judah. Then Zimri became the next king. Zimri immediately killed the entire royal family of Baasha, and he did not leave a single male child. He even destroyed distant relatives and friends. So Zimri destroyed the dynasty of Baasha as the LORD had promised through the prophet Jehu. This happened because of the sins of Baasha and his son Elah and because of all the sins they led Israel to commit, arousing the anger of the LORD, the God of Israel, with their idols. (1 Kings 16:9-13 NLT)

    Killed by a Lion

    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

    Exterminate 7 Nations

    You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, ‘How can we ever conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?’ But don’t be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still hiding from you! “No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little. You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all. (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)

    Kill Everyone in 7 Nations

    When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don’t let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
    The Evil Bible Quotes of the Day Archives:
    January February March April May June July August September October November December

  142. Atheist says:

    Gospel Contradictions:

    1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

    2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people “to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.'” Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

    3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

    4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

    5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

    6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

    7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

    8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

    9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

    10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

    11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

    12) Was John the Baptist Elias? “This is Elias which was to come.” Matthew 11:14 “And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not.” John l:21

    13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter bullshit, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

    14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

    15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

    16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

    17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

    18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 “And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.” Mark 7:26 “The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.”

    19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

    20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

    21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.

    22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works.” 1 Peter 2:12 “Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that … they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.” This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 “Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret.” Matthew 23:3-5 “Do not ye after their [Pharisees’] works … all their works they do for to be seen of men.”

    23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

    24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 “And it was the third hour and they crucified him.” John 19:14-15 “And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?” John 19:14-15.

    25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

    26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 (“For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel”) Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…” Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

    27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

    28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the “other Mary” (Jesus’ mother) went.

    29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

    30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5

    31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

    32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

    33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

    34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

    35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

    36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

    37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

    38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

    39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

    40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? “The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die.” John 19:7 “The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death.” John 18:31

    41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” 2 Kings 2:11 “No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man.” John 3:13

    42) Is scripture inspired by God? “all scripture is given by inspiration of God.” 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: “But I speak this by permission and not by commandment.” 1 Corinthians 7:6 “But to the rest speak I, not the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 7:12 “That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord” 2 Corinthians.

  143. why? says:

    “Emotions are bad, evil arises when people are driven by their emotions and ego not reason.”

    Emotions are NOT always bad. Can you use mere logic to justify not harming others. You cannot. You must have emotion called compassion for others to justify not harming others. The reason you or I for not harming others is sympathy or even empathy.

    “We don’t hate ideas, an idea can be written in a book but it’s crazy to say I hate a book. You can say this idea is bad for humanity because of x, y and z but that’s about it.”

    It is NOT at all crazy to hate certain ideas. Why do you think the idea of having sex slaves is bad for others? It is based on empathy for others and so you find disgust or revolt or repugnance. This is intense dislike or loathing or hatred for such ideas.

    “I wouldn’t call that hatred, cancer is also harmful to everyone in society but it doesn’t make any sense to say I hate cancer.”

    Intense dislike is hatred for certain ideas.

    “Also it’s quite possible that Jesus was a wise person with philosophical teachings not so different from the Buddha and ancient Hindu philosophers and all the things like resurrection,”

    I disagree here. If he were existent, he should have openly tore apart old testament, a barbaric genocidal religious book which is the harbinger of religiously sanctioning sexual slavery, kidnapping etc. Besides, didn’t jeebus himself say he did not come to establish peace in the world, but a sword. Would a loving good person, wantedly teach something that would lead to division and war as per his own claims. Only evil people would sow the seeds of division and hatred. His teachings are full of hatred. Didn’t he say that those who do not accept him would have suffering worse than sodom and gomorrah. He insisted on blind belief and NOt on knowledge.

    HIs philosophical teachings are nowhere similar to Buddha nor Hindu teachings, where direct perception and knowledge is the key to one’s salvation, not blind belief.

  144. why? says:

    Ron,

    For every so called testimony you post, there will be several others who converted from christianity to other religions ranging from iskconism, TM, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and even to Islam.

    Testimonies are useless. You can provide endless testimonies. Finally they are what they are, mere subjective experiences.

    See the following youtube videos.

    Bat-shit Crazy Christians 5
    youtube.com/watch?v=U2z-ZfEcZNM

    Brain Washing ( Jesus Camp ”Highlights” )
    youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

    Crazy Screaming Christian at some jesus camp
    youtube.com/watch?v=LyJI9xDUYV8

  145. why? says:

    Ron,

    For every so called testimony you post, there will be several others who converted from christianity to other religions ranging from iskconism, TM, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and even to Islam.

    Testimonies are useless. You can provide endless testimonies. Finally they are what they are, mere subjective experiences.

    See the following youtube videos.

    Bat-shit Crazy Christians 5
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2z-ZfEcZNM

    Brain Washing ( Jesus Camp ”Highlights” )
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

    Crazy Screaming Christian at some jesus camp

  146. steve says:

    @Why?
    “Having emotions is not bad in itself.” Emotions are bad, evil arises when people are driven by their emotions and ego not reason.

    “Yet we hate certain ideologies. Don’t we? Do you hate a religious teaching that says taking sex slaves is fine?” We don’t hate ideas, an idea can be written in a book but it’s crazy to say I hate a book. You can say this idea is bad for humanity because of x, y and z but that’s about it.

    “This hatred is borne out of knowledge that certain teachers and teachings are absolutely harmful for everyone in society.” I wouldn’t call that hatred, cancer is also harmful to everyone in society but it doesn’t make any sense to say I hate cancer.

    Also it’s quite possible that Jesus was a wise person with philosophical teachings not so different from the Buddha and ancient Hindu philosophers and all the things like resurrection, Virgin births and the such like where added in years after by foolish people trying to start a myth around him.

  147. Ra says:

    Hi Ron, Some Hindus found Christ and some Christians found “The Inner Light”
    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vndEZfiSws4&w=420&h=315%5D

  148. Ron says:

    @why,

    This testimony of good character professional

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3shDa9bZAM

    see this news covered by CNN

  149. why? says:

    “You can justify hate using semantics, but ultimately you are fooling yourself only.”

    Do you have any logical argument why one should NOT hate evil and those who spread evil? If not, you are ultimately fooling yourself only. Loving evil people ultimately implies approving evil as well.

    “Jesus said love your enemies and do not hate them. Bless those who curse you.”

    Can I ask you why your jeebus sees others as enemies? Didn’t jeebus say that those who deny him, for them the day of judgment will be worse than that of sodom and gomoorah? Is this how jeebus “loves” and “blesses” his enemies? Is hypocrisy part of jeebus’ teachings?

    The teachings of hypocrites like jeebus are always full of contradictions. They advice others to love and bless their enemies, while they themselves curse those who do not accept them.

    Did jeebus ever bless and love satan? Why didn’t jeebus bless satan anywhere in gospel?

    “Do unto others as you would want others do to you.”

    So what is the relevance here….Does this imply we should love evil people?

    “This is a testimony of Naghma (Actress)”

    So now all you have is another characterless prostitute actress as a testimony for your fake god.

  150. Ron says:

    @why
    What ideology or belief system or religion do you subscribe/adhere/cling to?
    You can justify hate using semantics, but ultimately you are fooling yourself only.

    Jesus said love your enemies and do not hate them. Bless those who curse you.
    Do unto others as you would want others do to you.

    This is a testimony of Naghma (Actress)

  151. why? says:

    “Hatred is an emotion it’s not rational. Also it’s just a waste of energy and time. Furthermore Muhammed and founders of Christianity are dead, what’s the point in hating dead men?”
    ========================================================

    Steve, we are not just robots. We have emotions. Having emotions is not bad in itself. Just like dead people, ideologies are also dead. Yet we hate certain ideologies. Don’t we? Do you hate a religious teaching that says taking sex slaves is fine? It is this same kind of hatred I am talking about. It is NOT the uncontrollable emotional reaction you or I have had, say as a child. This hatred is borne out of knowledge that certain teachers and teachings are absolutely harmful for everyone in society.

  152. steve says:

    @why?
    I was the one who wrote “I don’t have a hatred of religious people.”
    “The hatred for falsehood and founders and/or propagators of falsehood is nothing wrong. Hating criminal like Muhammad and his teachings is not wrong. This goes for the founders of christianity as well.” Hatred is an emotion it’s not rational. Also it’s just a waste of energy and time. Furthermore Muhammed and founders of Christianity are dead, what’s the point in hating dead men?

    @Ron
    Posting peoples testimonies of conversion to Christianity is not evidence for its dogmas. If you have arguments for Christianity you should be able to write them down here in no more than a few sentences.

  153. Ron says:

    Earlier I posted the testimonies of Dr Hugh Ross (Astrophysicist) . His doctorate is from University of Toronto and he is well known and you can check out easily on the web.

    Also I posted the testimony of Pandit Dharam Prakash Sharma who is also well known as he is a Bollywood and TV personality, Author.

    They don’t need to show certificates as they are on the web. Yes if you have hatred of Christians and also are a skeptic then you will not be convinced regardless of the evidence.

    Lee Strobel is an Atheist Journalist of repute with the Chicago Tribune with a law degree from Yale and a best-selling author. He shares his story on how he found Christ.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnKPTtU_Vwk

    If you are a fake/fraud then you tend to look at everyone as a fake/fraud. I don’t mean to say that you are a fraud but it is natural to think that everyone are the same and build a stereotype.

    Please don’t ask for the evidence of his degrees or identity as they are openly mentioned on the web.

    Also note that if you hate Christ then it is difficult to love someone. Christ was the epitome of forgiveness. Turn to Christ and you will experience love and compassion, forgiveness and peace.

  154. why? says:

    Ron wrote:

    “If you are filled and indoctrinated with hatred for people having other belief systems, then no amount of facts can change your view.” I don’t have a hatred of religious people.”

    The hatred for falsehood and founders and/or propagators of falsehood is nothing wrong. Hating criminal like Muhammad and his teachings is not wrong. This goes for the founders of christianity as well.

    Second, what you consider as fact, is your delusion. Testimonies are NOT evidence, they are subjective experiences. You need to analyze them to know if they are true. You cannot analyze them if you do not provide proper identification of these people and a way to verify their evidence. These has to be proper government documents. These days even government documents can be faked in India. So do not bother providing Indian testimonies. They are all 100% fake.

  155. why? says:

    Ron,

    Please don’t bother posting fake testimonies. We know how christians fake it.

    Even if every soul existent testifies for falsehood, it is still falsehood. Delusions do not prove anything.

  156. Ron says:

    This Atheist PHd scientist became Christian after researching evidence for God.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs

    This well known Hindu Pandit’s Testimony t

  157. Ra says:

    We should be suspicious of anyone who it was reported that he performed miracles.

  158. Atheist says:

    If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

    Theological doctrines:

    1. God is satisfied with his works
    Gen 1:31
    God is dissatisfied with his works.
    Gen 6:6
    2. God dwells in chosen temples
    2 Chron 7:12,16
    God dwells not in temples
    Acts 7:48
    3. God dwells in light
    Tim 6:16
    God dwells in darkness
    1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
    4. God is seen and heard
    Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
    Ex 24:9-11
    God is invisible and cannot be heard
    John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
    5. God is tired and rests
    Ex 31:17
    God is never tired and never rests
    Is 40:28
    6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
    Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
    God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
    things
    Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
    7. God knows the hearts of men
    Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
    God tries men to find out what is in their heart
    Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
    8. God is all powerful
    Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
    God is not all powerful
    Judg 1:19
    9. God is unchangeable
    James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
    God is changeable
    Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
    Ex 33:1,3,17,14
    10. God is just and impartial
    Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
    God is unjust and partial
    Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
    11. God is the author of evil
    Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
    God is not the author of evil
    1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
    12. God gives freely to those who ask
    James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
    God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
    them
    John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
    13. God is to be found by those who seek him
    Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
    God is not to be found by those who seek him
    Prov 1:28
    14. God is warlike
    Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
    God is peaceful
    Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
    15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
    Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
    God is kind, merciful, and good
    James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
    1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
    16. God’s anger is fierce and endures long
    Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
    God’s anger is slow and endures but for a minute
    Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
    17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
    sacrifices ,and holy days
    Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
    God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
    sacrifices, and holy days.
    Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
    18. God accepts human sacrifices
    2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
    God forbids human sacrifice
    Deut 12:30,31
    19. God tempts men
    Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
    God tempts no man
    James 1:13
    20. God cannot lie
    Heb 6:18
    God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
    2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
    21. Because of man’s wickedness God destroys him
    Gen 6:5,7
    Because of man’s wickedness God will not destroy him
    Gen 8:21
    22. God’s attributes are revealed in his works.
    Rom 1:20
    God’s attributes cannot be discovered
    Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
    23. There is but one God
    Deut 6:4
    There is a plurality of gods
    Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

    Moral Precepts

    24. Robbery commanded
    Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
    Robbery forbidden
    Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
    25. Lying approved and sanctioned
    Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
    Lying forbidden
    Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
    26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
    2 Kings 14:7,3
    Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
    Deut 23:7
    27. Killing commanded
    Ex 32:27
    Killing forbidden
    Ex 20:13
    28. The blood-shedder must die
    Gen 9:5,6
    The blood-shedder must not die
    Gen 4:15
    29. The making of images forbidden
    Ex 20:4
    The making of images commanded
    Ex 25:18,20
    30. Slavery and oppression ordained
    Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
    Slavery and oppression forbidden
    Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
    31. Improvidence enjoyed
    Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
    Improvidence condemned
    1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
    32. Anger approved
    Eph 4:26
    Anger disapproved
    Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
    33. Good works to be seen of men
    Matt 5:16
    Good works not to be seen of men
    Matt 6:1
    34. Judging of others forbidden
    Matt 7:1,2
    Judging of others approved
    1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
    35. Christ taught non-resistance
    Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
    Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
    Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
    36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
    Luke 12:4
    Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
    John 7:1
    37. Public prayer sanctioned
    1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
    Public prayer disapproved
    Matt 6:5,6
    38. Importunity in prayer commended
    Luke 18:5,7
    Importunity in prayer condemned
    Matt 6:7,8
    39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
    Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
    The wearing of long hair by men condemned
    1 Cor 11:14
    40. Circumcision instituted
    Gen 17:10
    Circumcision condemned
    Gal 5:2
    41. The Sabbath instituted
    Ex 20:8
    The Sabbath repudiated
    Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
    42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
    Ex 20:11
    The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
    out of Egypt
    Deut 5:15
    43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
    Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
    Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
    the same
    John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
    44. Baptism commanded
    Matt 28:19
    Baptism not commanded
    1 Cor 1:17,14
    45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
    Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
    Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
    Deut 14:7,8
    46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
    Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
    Taking of oaths forbidden
    Matt 5:34
    47. Marriage approved
    Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
    Marriage disapproved
    1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
    48. Freedom of divorce permitted
    Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
    Divorce restricted
    Matt 5:32
    49. Adultery forbidden
    Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
    Adultery allowed
    Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
    50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
    Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
    Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
    Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
    51. A man may marry his brother’s widow
    Deut 25:5
    A man may not marry his brother’s widow
    Lev 20:21
    52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
    Luke 14:26
    Hatred to kindred condemned
    Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
    53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
    Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
    Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
    Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
    54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God’s ministers
    and punish evil doers only
    Rom 13:1-3,6
    It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
    good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
    Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
    Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
    55. Women’s rights denied
    Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
    Women’s rights affirmed
    Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
    56. Obedience to masters enjoined
    Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
    Obedience due to God only
    Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
    57. There is an unpardonable sin
    Mark 3:29
    There is not unpardonable sin
    Acts 13:39

    Historical Facts

    58. Man was created after the other animals
    Gen 1:25,26,27
    Man was created before the other animals
    Gen 2:18,19
    59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
    Gen 8:22
    Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
    Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6
    60. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart
    Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
    Pharaoh hardened his own heart
    Ex 8:15
    61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
    Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
    All the horses of Egypt did not die
    Ex 14:9
    62. Moses feared Pharaoh
    Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
    Moses did not fear Pharaoh
    Heb 11:27
    63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
    Num 25:9
    There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
    1 Cor 10:8
    64. John the Baptist was Elias
    Matt 11:14
    John the Baptist was not Elias
    John 1:21
    65. The father of Joseph, Mary’s husband was Jacob
    Matt 1:16
    The father of Mary’s husband was Heli
    Luke 3:23
    66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
    Gen 11:12
    The father of Salah was Cainan
    Luke 3:35,36
    67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
    Matt 1:17
    There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
    Matt 1:2-6
    68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
    to Christ.
    Matt 1:17
    There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
    captivity to Christ
    Matt 1:12-16
    69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
    Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
    The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
    Luke 2:22, 39
    70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
    Mark 1:12,13
    Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
    John 2:1,2
    71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
    Matt 5:1,2
    Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
    Luke 6:17,20
    72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
    Mark 1:14
    John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
    John 1:43/ John 3:22-24
    73. Christ’s disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
    and sandals
    Mark 6:8,9
    Christ’s disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
    staffs nor sandals.
    Matt 10:9,10
    74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
    Matt 15:22
    It was a Greek woman who besought Him
    Mark 7:26
    75. Two blind men besought Jesus
    Matt 20:30
    Only one blind man besought Him
    Luke 18:35,38
    76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
    Mark 15:25
    Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
    John 19:14,15
    77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
    Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
    Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
    Luke 23:39,40
    78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
    John 13:27
    Satan entered into him before the supper
    Luke 22:3,4,7
    79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
    Matt 27:5
    Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
    Acts 1:18
    80. The potter’s field was purchased by Judas
    Acts 1:18
    The potter’s field was purchased by the Chief Priests
    Matt 27:6,7
    81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
    John 20:1
    There were two women who came to the sepulchre
    Matt 28:1
    82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
    Mark 16:1
    There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
    Luke 24:10
    83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
    Mark 16:2
    It was some time before sunrise when they came.
    John 20:1
    84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
    they were standing up.
    Luke 24:4
    There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
    Matt 28:2,5
    85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
    John 20:11,12
    There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
    Mark 16:5
    86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
    Matt 12:40
    Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
    Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
    87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
    Acts 1:8,5
    Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
    John 20:22
    88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
    resurrection to go into Galilee
    Matt 28:10
    The disciples were commanded immediately after the
    resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
    Luke 24:49
    89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
    Jerusalem
    Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
    Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
    Matt 28:16,17
    90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
    Acts 1:9,12
    Christ ascended from Bethany
    Luke 24:50,51
    91. Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
    speechless
    Acts 9:7
    Paul’s attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
    Acts 26:14
    92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
    Gen 12:5
    Abraham went not knowing where
    Heb 11:8
    93. Abraham had two sons
    Gal 4:22
    Abraham had but one son
    Heb 11:17
    94. Keturah was Abraham’s wife
    Gen 25:1
    Keturah was Abraham’s concubine
    1 Chron 1:32
    95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
    interposition of Providence
    Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
    Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
    old without any interposition of providence
    Gen 25:1,2
    96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
    Josh 24:32
    Abraham bought it of Hamor
    Acts 7:16
    97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
    forever
    Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
    Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
    Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13
    98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
    2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
    correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
    The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
    1 Chron 20:5
    99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
    2 Kings 8:25
    Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
    2 Kings 9:29
    100. Michal had no child
    2 Sam 6:23
    Michal had five children
    2 Sam 21:8
    101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
    2 Sam 24:1
    David was tempted by Satan to number the people
    1 Chron 21:1
    102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
    Judah 500,000
    2 Sam 24:9
    The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
    Judah 470,000
    1 Chron 21:5
    103. David sinned in numbering the people
    2 Sam 24:10
    David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
    1 Kings 15:5
    104. One of the penalties of David’s sin was seven years of
    famine.
    2 Sam 24:13
    It was not seven years, but three years of famine
    1 Chron 21:11,12
    105. David took seven hundred horsemen
    2 Sam 8:4
    David took seven thousand horsemen
    1 Chron 18:4
    106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
    2 Sam 24:24
    David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
    gold
    1 Chron 21:25
    107. David’s throne was to endure forever.
    Ps 89:35-37
    David’s throne was cast down
    Ps 89:44

    Speculative Doctrines

    108. Christ is equal with God
    John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
    Christ is not equal with God
    John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
    109. Jesus was all-powerful
    Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
    Jesus was not all-powerful
    Mark 6:5
    110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
    Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
    The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
    Matt 5:17-19
    111. Christ’s mission was peace
    Luke 2:13,14
    Christ’s mission was not peace
    Matt 10:34
    112. Christ received not testimony from man
    John 5:33,34
    Christ did receive testimony from man
    John 15:27
    113. Christ’s witness of himself is true.
    John 8:18,14
    Christ’s witness of himself is not true.
    John 5:31
    114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
    John 15:13/ John 10:11
    Christ laid down his life for his enemies
    Rom 5:10
    115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
    John 19:7
    It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
    John 18:31
    116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
    Ex 20:5
    Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
    Ezek 18:20
    117. Man is justified by faith alone
    Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
    Man is not justified by faith alone
    James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13
    118. It is impossible to fall from grace
    John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
    It is possible to fall from grace
    Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
    119. No man is without sin
    1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
    Christians are sinless
    1 John 3: 9,6,8
    120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
    1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
    There is to be no resurrection of the dead
    Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14
    121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
    Prov 11:31
    Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
    Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10
    122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
    Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
    Endless misery the portion of all mankind
    Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2
    123. The Earth is to be destroyed
    2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
    The Earth is never to be destroyed
    Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4
    124. No evil shall happen to the godly
    Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
    Evil does happen to the godly
    Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7
    125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
    Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
    Job 42:12
    Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
    Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
    126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
    Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
    Prov 15:6
    Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
    Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
    Luke 6:24
    127. The Christian yoke is easy
    Matt 11:28,29,30
    The Christian yoke is not easy
    John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
    128. The fruit of God’s spirit is love and gentleness
    Gal 5:22
    The fruit of God’s spirit is vengeance and fury
    Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11
    129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
    Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
    Longevity denied to the wicked
    Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17
    130. Poverty a blessing
    Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
    Riches a blessing
    Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
    Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
    Prov 30:8,9
    131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
    Prov 3:13,17
    Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
    Eccl 1:17,18
    132. A good name is a blessing
    Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
    A good name is a curse
    Luke 6:26
    133. Laughter commended
    Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
    Laughter condemned
    Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4
    134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
    Prov 22:15
    There is no remedy for foolishness
    Prov 27:22
    135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
    Prov 26:5
    A fool should not be answered according to his folly
    Prov 26:4
    136. Temptation to be desired
    James 1:2
    Temptation not to be desired
    Matt 6:13
    137. Prophecy is sure
    2 Pet 1:19
    Prophecy is not sure
    Jer 18:7-10
    138. Man’s life was to be one hundred and twenty years
    Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
    Man’s life is but seventy years
    Ps 90:10
    139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
    Gen 9:2
    The fear of man is not upon the lion
    Prov 30:30
    140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
    Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
    Miracles not a proof of divine mission
    Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
    141. Moses was a very meek man
    Num 12:3
    Moses was a very cruel man
    Num 31:15,17
    142. Elijah went up to heaven
    2 Kings 2:11
    None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
    John 3:13
    143. All scripture is inspired
    2 Tim 3:16
    Some scripture is not inspired
    1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17

    Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
    peace, but a sword.
    – Matthew 10:34

    … all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
    – Matthew 26:52

    For wrath killeth the foolish man…
    – Job 5:2

    … let not the sun go down on your wrath.
    – Ephesians 4:26

    And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
    is in heaven.
    – John 3:13

    … and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
    – 2 Kings 2:11

    If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
    – John 5:31

    I am one that bear witness of myself…
    – John 8:18
    [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]

    A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children’s children…
    – Proverbs 13:22

    Sell that ye have and give alms…
    – Luke 12:33

    Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord… Wealth and riches
    shall be in his house…
    – Psalms 112:1-3

    It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
    for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
    – Matthew 19:24

    I and my father are one.
    – John 10:30

    … I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    – John 14:28
    [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]

    Thou shalt not kill
    – Exodus 20:13

    Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
    side… and slay every man his brother…
    – Exodus 32:27

    Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
    – Exodus 20:8

    The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
    away with: it is iniquity.
    – Isaiah 3:22

    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
    of anything that is in heaven… earth… [or] water.
    – Leviticus 26:11

    And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
    thou make them.
    – Exodus 25:18

    For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.
    – Ephesians 2:8-9

    Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
    faith only.
    – James 2:24

    God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
    that he should repent.
    – Numbers 23:19

    And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
    people.
    – Exodus 32:14

    … the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
    hear his voice, and come forth…
    – John 5:28-29

    As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
    down to the grave shall come up no more.
    – Job 7:9

    … thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
    hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
    wound, stripe for stripe.
    – Exodus 21:23-25

    … resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
    cheek, turn to him the other also.
    – Matthew 5:39

    Honor thy father and mother.
    – Exodus 20:12

    If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
    wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
    life also, he cannot be my disciple.
    – Luke 14:26

    Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth…
    – Matthew 6:19

    In the house of the righteous is much treasure…
    – Proverbs 15:6

    I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
    – Genesis 32:30

    No man hath seen God at any time.
    – John 1:18

    The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
    – Ezekiel 18:20

    … I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
    the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
    generation.
    – Exodus 20:5

    Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
    understanding.
    – Proverbs 3:13

    For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
    knowledge increaseth sorrow.
    – Ecclesiastes 1:18

    The Lord is good to all.
    – Psalm 145:6

    I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
    – Isaiah 45:7

    Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
    – Matthew 5:22

    [Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
    – Matthew 23:17

    For all have sinned.
    – Romans 3:23

    There was a man… whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
    and upright.
    – Job 1:1

    Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
    – 2 Kings 8:26

    Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
    – 2 Chronicles 22:2

    If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath… he shall do
    according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
    – Numbers 30:2

    But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven… nor by
    earth.
    – Matthew 5:34-35

    … the earth abideth forever.
    – Ecclesiastes 1:4

    … the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
    the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    – 2 Peter 3:10

    … for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
    forever.
    – Jeremiah 3:12

    Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
    – Jeremiah 17:4

    … God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
    – James 1:13

    And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
    Abraham.
    – Genesis 22:1

    And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
    – Genesis 1:31

    And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
    grieved him at his heart
    – Genesis 6:6

    For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
    there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
    perpetually.
    – II Chronicles 7:16

    Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
    – Acts 7:48

    [God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
    – I Timothy 6:16

    The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

    – I Kings 8:12

    And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
    And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
    – Genesis 3:9,10

    Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
    – John 5:37

    Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
    elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel… They saw
    God, and did eat and drink.
    – Exodus 24: 9-11

    Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
    – I Timothy 6:16

    With God all things are possible.
    – Matthew 29:26

    And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
    the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
    valley, because they had chariots of iron.
    – Judges 1:19

    God is not the author of confusion.
    – I Corinthians 24:33

    Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
    – Lamentations 3:38

    Those that seek me early shall find me.
    – Proverbs 8:17

    Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
    seek me early, but shall not find me.
    – Proverbs 1:28

    On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
    atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
    afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
    Lord.
    – Leviticus 23:27

    For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
    that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
    offering or sacrifices.
    – Jeremiah 7:22

    And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
    sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
    Lord.
    – Leviticus 1:9

    Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
    unto me.
    – Jeremiah 7:20

    God is not a man, that he should lie
    – Numbers 23:19

    And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
    Lord have deceived that prophet.
    – Ezekiel 24:9

    There is none other God but one.
    – I Corinthians 8:4

    And God said, Let us make man in our image.
    – Genesis 1:26

    When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
    of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
    of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
    on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
    Egyptians.
    – Exodus 3:21,22

    Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
    – Leviticus 19:13

    At the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life of
    man. Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
    – Genesis 4:5,6

    And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
    kill him.
    – Genesis 4:15

    Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
    neither do they spin… if God so clothe the grass of the
    field… shall he not much more clothe you? Therefore, take no
    thought, saying what shall we eat? or what shall we drink? or
    wherewithal shall we be clothed?… Take, therefore, no thought
    for the morrow.
    – Matthew 6:28, 30-34

    But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
    own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
    infidel.
    – I Timothy 5:8

    Be ye angry and sin not.
    – Ephesians 4:26

    Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
    the bosom of fools.
    – Ecclesiastes 7:9

    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
    works.
    – Matthew 5:16

    Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
    them.
    – Matthew 6:1

    And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
    of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
    toward heaven…
    – I Kings 7:22

    When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
    they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
    of the streets, that they may be seen of men…
    – Matthew 6:5

    And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
    Nazarite unto God from the womb.
    – Judges 8:5

    Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
    hair, it is a shame unto him?
    – I Corinthians 6:14

    Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
    – Exodus 20:8

    One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
    day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    – Romans 14:5

    For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
    all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
    Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
    – Exodus 20:11

    And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
    that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
    hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
    commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
    – Deuteronomy 5:15

    There is nothing unclean of itself.
    – Romans 14:14

    Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
    – Deuteronomy 14:7,8

    Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
    – Deuteronomy 27:22

    And Abraham said… She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
    – Genesis 20:11,12

    If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
    – Deuteronomy 25:5

    If a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing… they shall be childless.
    – Leviticus 20:21

    He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
    – Mark 3:29

    And by him that believe are justified from all things.
    – Acts 13:39

    [John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
    – Matthew 11:14

    And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
    – John 1:21

    Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
    preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
    – Mark 1:14

    After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea… and John was also baptizing Enon… for John was not yet cast into prison.
    – John 3:22-24

    And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
    – Mark 25:3-4

    And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king… Shall I crucify your king?
    – John 19:14-15

    They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
    – Matthew 27:34

    And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
    – Mark 15:23
    [Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]

    And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
    – Acts 9:7

    And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
    – Acts 22:9

    Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
    – Galatians 4:22

    By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac… his only begotten son.
    – Hebrews 11:17

    Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
    – II Samuel 6:23

    The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
    – II Samuel 21:8

    And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
    – II Samuel 24:1

    And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
    – I Chronicles 21:1

    All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
    – Matthew 28:18

    And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
    – Mark 6:5

    There shall no evil happen to the just.
    – Proverbs 12:21

    Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    – Hebrews 12:6

  159. Atheist says:

    Prophecies to Identify the Messiah, Which Jesus Does Not Fulfill:

    1) Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means “God with us.” Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.

    2) The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.

    3) Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled.

    Prophecies Christians Use to Verify Jesus as the Messiah, Yet Clearly Fail:

    4) The gospels (especially Matthew 21:4 and John 12:14-15) claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9. But the next few verses (Zechariah 9:10-13) show that the person referred to in this verse is a military king that would rule “from sea to sea”. Since Jesus had neither an army nor a kingdom, he could not have fulfilled this prophecy.

    5) Matthew (Matthew 2:17-18) quotes Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:15), claiming that it was a prophecy of King Herod’s alleged slaughter of the children in and around Bethlehem after the birth of Jesus. But this passage refers to the Babylonian captivity, as is clear by reading the next two verses (Jeremiah 31:16-17), and, thus, has nothing to do with Herod’s massacre.

    6) John 19:33 says that during Jesus’ crucifixion, the soldiers didn’t break his legs because he was already dead. Verse John 19:36 claims that this fulfilled a prophecy: “Not a bone of him shall be broken.” But there is no such prophecy. It is sometimes said that the prophecy appears in Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12 & Psalm 34:20. This is not correct. Exodus 12:46 & Numbers 9:12 are not prophecies, they are commandments. The Israelites are told not to break the bones of the Passover lamb, and this is all it is about. And Psalm 34:20 seems to refer to righteous people in general (see verse Psalm 34:19, where a plural is used), not to make a prophecy about a specific person.

    7) “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” Hosea 11:1. Matthew (Matthew 2:15) claims that the flight of Jesus’ family to Egypt is a fulfillment of this verse. But Hosea 11:1 is not a prophecy at all. It is a reference to the Hebrew exodus from Egypt and has nothing to do with Jesus. Matthew tries to hide this fact by quoting only the last part of the verse (“Out of Egypt I have called my son”).

    8) “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Micah 5:2 The gospel of Matthew (Matthew 2:5-6) claims that Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem fulfils this prophecy. But this is unlikely for two reasons.

    A) “Bethlehem Ephratah” in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the son of Caleb’s second wife, Ephrathah (1 Chronicles 2:18, 2:50-52 & 4:4).

    B) The prophecy (if that is what it is) does not refer to the Messiah, but rather to a military leader, as can be seen from Micah 5:6. This leader is supposed to defeat the Assyrians, which, of course, Jesus never did. It should also be noted that Matthew altered the text of Micah 5:2 by saying: “And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah” rather than “Bethlehem Ephratah” as is said in Micah 5:2. He did this, intentionally no doubt, to make this verse appear to refer to the town of Bethlehem rather than the family clan.

    Statements Jesus Made Which Are False:

    9) Jesus in John 14:12 & Mark 16:17-18 said: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” This implies that Jesus’ true followers should be able to routinely perform the following tricks: 1) cast out devils, 2) speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them and MANY other of Jesus’ “works”. Curiously I have yet to see a Christian that can do any of the above on demand.

    10) In John 14:13-14 Jesus stated: “And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction. This promise or prophecy has failed completely.

    11) Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection (1 Corinthian 15:14-17). Yet Jesus said in Matthew 12:40 that he would be buried three days and three nights as Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights. Friday afternoon to early Sunday morning is only one and a half days, so he could not have been the messiah by his own and Paul’s admission.

    12) Jesus’ prophecy in John 13:38 (“The cock shall not crow, till thou [Peter] hast denied me three times”) is false. Mark 14:66-68 shows the cock crowed after the first denial, not the third.

    13) In Mark 10:19 Jesus said: “Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.” Jesus needs to re-read the Ten Commandments. There is no Old Testament commandment against defrauding. The only relevant statement about defrauding is in Leviticus 19:13 , which says : “Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor.” This is an OT law, but is not listed with the Ten Commandments. Surely, if Jesus was god incarnate he would know the commandments.

    14) “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13). If Jesus is in heaven, how can he be down on earth speaking? Moreover, according to 2 Kings 2:11 (“and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven”) Jesus was not the only person to ascend into heaven, nor was he the first. Elijah preceded him and apparently Enoch did also (“And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”–Genesis 5:24).

    15) In Luke 23:43 Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” This obviously has to be false, for Jesus was supposed to lay dead in the tomb for three days following his crucifixion.

    1 6) Jesus says : “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy” (Matthew 5:43). This statement does not exist in the OT either. In fact, Proverbs 24:17 says, “Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth…”

    17) Jesus is reported to say: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it” (Luke 16:16). Certainly every man is not pressing to enter the kingdom of God. The very fact that I am an atheist (one third of the world’s population does not believe in a god) proves this verse to be false.

    18) “Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?” (Matthew 12:5) Nowhere does the OT state that the priests in the temple profaned the Sabbath and were considered blameless.

    19) “Yea; have ye never read, ‘Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise'” (Matthew 21:16). Jesus is quoting Psalm 8:2, which says, “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies…”. “Perfect praise” has little to do with “ordaining strength because of thine enemies.” Another misquotation!

    20) “But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him” (Mark 9:13). There are no prophecies in the OT of things that were to happen to Elijah.

    Jesus, in all his “God incarnate” wisdom, contradicts himself:

    21) Jesus consistently contradicts himself concerning his Godly status. “I and my father are one.” (John 14:28) Also see Philippians 2:5-6 Those verses lead us to believe that he is a part of the trinity and equal to his father being a manifestation of him. Yet, Jesus also made many statements that deny he is the perfect men, much less God incarnate. Take the following for example: “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God” (Matthew 19:17). “My father if greater then I.” (John 14:28) Also see Matthew 24:26 Clearly, Jesus is denouncing the possibility of him being the Messiah in those three verses.

    22) Jesus said, “whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22). Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 23:17-19 and Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show. Clearly Jesus should be in danger of hell too?

    23) Does Jesus support peace, or war? Matthew 5:39 “Resist not evil, but whoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Also note Matthew 6:38-42 & 26:52 where Jesus teaches non-resistance, Non-violence. Now read (Luke 22:36-37) Where Jesus commands people to take arms for a coming conflict. (John 2:15) Jesus uses a whip to physically drive people out of the temple.

    24) Matthew 15:24 Jesus said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of lsrael,”. This would of course mean that he is here only to save the Jews. The scriptures repeatedly back up this notion that Christ is savior to the Jews and not the gentiles (see Romans 16:17, Revelations 14:3-4 & John 10). The contradiction lies in what Jesus later tells his followers: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations” (Matthew 28:19).

    25) Can we hate our kindred? Luke 14:26 Jesus says “If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brother, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he can not be my disciple.” John 3:15 “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer.” Also see Ephesians 6:22, 5:25, & Matthew 15:4

    26) Even many of the staunchest defenders of Jesus admit that his comment in Matthew 10:34 (“I came not to send peace but a sword”) contradicts verses such as Matthew 26:52 (“Put up again thy sword into his place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword”).

    27) Deuteronomy 24:1 & 21:10-14 all say that divorce is allowed for the simple reason if a “man no longer delighteth in his wife”. Yet Jesus comes along and breaks his father’s law by saying in Matthew 5:32 that adultery is the only way one can be divorced.

    28) In Mark 8:35 Jesus said: “…but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s the same shall save it.” How could Jesus have said this when there was no gospel when he lived? The gospel did not appear until after his death.

    29) Matthew 6:13 Jesus recites a revised prayer and states, “Don’t bring us into temptation.” God is the cause of everything, even Satan. God has been leading people into temptation since the Garden of Eden. Otherwise, the trees of life and knowledge would have never been there.

    30) Matthew 12:1-8 Jesus thinks it’s okay to break his father’s laws, by breaking the Sabbath day. He states that he is basically exempt for such fiascoes and that he is Master of the Sabbath.

    31) John 3:17 Jesus contradicts himself when he says, “God didn’t send his son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.” Jesus seems to forget his own stories.

    32) James 4:3 If your prayers are not answered, it’s your own damned fault. This is in direct contradiction to where Jesus says “seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be known to you”.

    33) “If Jesus bears witness of himself his witness is true” John 8:14, “If I bear witness of myself it is not true.” John 5:31

    34) “I am with you always, even unto the end of the world” (Matthew 28:20), versus “For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always” (Matthew 26:11 , Mark 14:7, John 12:8) and “Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am thither ye cannot come” (John 7:34). Is this the kind of friend one can rely on?

    35) “And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her” (Mark 10:11 & Luke 6:18), versus “And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery” (Matthew 19:9). In the book of Matthew, Jesus said a man could put away his wife if one factor– fornication–is involved. In Mark and Luke he allowed no exceptions.

    36) Jesus is quoted: “Judge not, and ye shall be not judged; condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37 & Matthew 7:1), versus “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). Jesus stated men are not to judge but, then, allowed it under certain conditions. As in the case of divorce, he can’t seem to formulate a consistent policy.

    37) “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Matthew 27:46, (also note the time before crucification where Jesus prays for the “cup to passeth over me”) versus “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour?’ No, for this purpose I have come to this hour” (John 12:27 RSV). Jesus can’t seem to decide whether or not he wants to die. One moment he is willing; the next he isn’t.

    38) In Luke 23:30 (“Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, fall on us, and to the hills, cover us”) Jesus quoted Hosea 10:8 (“…and they shall say to the mountains, cover us; and to the hills, fall on us”). And, like Paul, he often quoted inaccurately. In this instance, he confused mountains with hills.

    39) “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they know him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist” (Matthew 17:11-13). John the Baptist was beheaded, but Jesus was not. And what did John the Baptist restore? Nothing!

    40) We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-18 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life.

    41) In Luke 12:4 Jesus told his followers to “Be not afraid of them that kill the body.” But Matthew 12:14-16, John 7:1, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54, & Mark 1:45 show that Jesus consistently feared death. Jesus went out of his way to hide, run, and attempt escape from the Roman and Jewish authorities.

    42) Matthew 5:28 says to sin in “your heart” is considered a sin in itself. The messiah is supposed to be God incarnate, not able to sin, yet in Matthew 4:5 & Luke 4:5-9, Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert, which is sinning in his heart. Jesus also took upon all the sins of the world during his crucifixion, so how can it be said that “Jesus was the perfect man without sin”? This would lead one to believe he was not the Messiah.

    43) Jesus told us to “Love your enemies; bless them that curse you,” but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition. Matthew 23:17 (“Ye fools and blind”), Matthew 12:34 (“0 generation of vipers”), and Matthew 23:27 (“. . . hypocrites . . . ye are like unto whited sepulchres. . .”) are excellent examples of hypocrisy.

    44) Did the people of Jesus’ generation see any signs? (Matthew 12:38-40) Jesus announced that no signs would be given to that generation except the Resurrection itself. (Mark 8:12-13) Jesus announced that no signs would be given to that generation. (Mark 16:20) They went out preaching, and the Lord confirmed the word through accompanying signs. (John 20:30) Jesus provided many wonders and signs. (Acts 2:22) Jesus provided many wonders and signs. (Acts 5:12 & 8:13) many signs and wonders were done through the apostles.

    45) Jesus commands the disciples to go into Galilee immediately after the resurrection. Matthew 28:10 Jesus commands the disciples to “tarry in Jerusalem” immediately after the resurrection.

    46) Matthew 28:18 & John 3:35 both tell that Jesus said he could do anything. Yet Mark 6:5 says Jesus was not all powerful.

    47) Jesus says in Luke 2:13-14 that he came to bring peace on earth. Matthew 10:34 Jesus back peddles and says he did not come to bring peace on earth.

    48) Did Christ receive testimony from man? “Ye sent unto John and he bare witness unto the truth. But I receive not testimony from man.” John 5:33-34 “And ye shall also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.” John 15:27

    49) Christ laid down his life for his friends. John 15:13 & 10:11 Christ laid down his life for his enemies. Romans 5:10

    50) Deuteronomy 23:2 says that bastards can not attend church unto the tenth generation. If Jesus was spawned by Mary and Jehovah as the Bible claims then he is technically a bastard and should not be the leader of the church.

  160. steve says:

    @Ron
    “I find the life and works, deeds and words of Jesus matchless and sinless.” Even Jesus himself admitted he is not sinless. “And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”

    “Follow Him and you will have all answers.” You are claiming you have knowledge about all things?

    “You will have compassion on fellow humans regardless of their belief systems. You will have genuine compassion on the homeless, poor, hungry, needy, old, orphans, destitute.” Why you think I don’t have compassion for my fellow human beings?

    “If you REACH OUT to the Holy Spirit and if HE DOES NOT RESPOND then you are justified in not believing in HIM. By not even trying to reach out to the Holy Spirit you are obviously not justified.” Again your God can contact me (or indeed anyone he wants to) with his offer of a relationship. So far he hasn’t and I have no reason to think your God even exists. Also what about those people that never even heard of this Idea or the people that was born before Christ? Why God did not contact them? And do people who don’t want a relationship with your God or have never received an offer, do they go to hell for eternity?

    If you are filled and indoctrinated with hatred for people having other belief systems, then no amount of facts can change your view.” I don’t have a hatred of religious people.

    “It took courage and humility for Anthony Flew to accept the DNA evidence and become a theist” What you call “DNA evidence” is not evidence of design it just 1)Ignores theory of evolution which explains the diversity and complexity of life through natural selection over hundreds of millions of years. And 2) This is called God of the gaps, whether their is something we don’t know the believers put their God in that gap.

    “But as Ali Sina said that as a materialist nothing can change you.” Neither you nor Ali Sina know what I believe or even what you mean by materialist this is just a word – a poorly defined word – he uses to insult his opponents and ignore their arguments.

    “After the war North Korea enforced atheism and tolerated Buddhism” North Korea is run by a personality cult. Funnily enough the father and the son are the gods of this cult.

    “But South Korea allowed all religions to thrive and within 50 years Christianity became the majority religion and Buddhism declined and the country became the 13TH largest economy in the world by GDP where else North Korea became the 115th in rank” Buddhism (at least as it exists today) is another cult. They believe in many crazy things for example the Dalai Lama almost have a revolt on his hands because he announced he didn’t believe mount menu was the centre of the universe. Also the main teaching of Buddhism – reincarnation- is another fantasy.

  161. Ron says:

    I am talking here about Jesus as historical and divine and I do not know much about the OT and history or prophecy therein. I find the life and works, deeds and words of Jesus matchless and sinless.

    Follow Him and you will have all answers.
    You will have compassion on fellow humans regardless of their belief systems. You will have genuine compassion on the homeless, poor, hungry, needy, old, orphans, destitute.

    Check yourself and pass through your city’s downtown and see whether you get any compelling urge to reach for your wallet/purse to help the needy or buy some food for the homeless?
    If you are engrossed in your own busy schedule and don’t have time or have any reasons whatsoever (except that you are destitute yourself) not to help then you don’t have the Holy Spirit in you.
    You need to invite Christ in your life and you will be touched by the Holy Spirit and suddenly you will feel this compassion and urge to help. May the peace of Christ be with you.

    If you REACH OUT to the Holy Spirit and if HE DOES NOT RESPOND then you are justified in not believing in HIM. By not even trying to reach out to the Holy Spirit you are obviously not justified.

    If you are filled and indoctrinated with hatred for people having other belief systems, then no amount of facts can change your view.

    It took courage and humility for Anthony Flew to accept the DNA evidence and become a theist. But as Ali Sina said that as a materialist nothing can change you.

    Inventions and discoveries have happened in many cultures as also in the Judeo-Christian cultures. But history tell us that larger portion of these inventions and discoveries have happened in the Judeo-Christian culture and Western World.

    The Industrial revolution, discoveries of elements, compounds, chemicals, nuclear energy, processes, automobiles, submarines, aircraft, hovercrafts, vaccinations, surgery, printing, farming revolution, computers, communication technology etc. happened in the Judeo-Christian culture and Western World. Even the internet which we are using as we write/read is a western invention but being developed with help from all over the world.

    When I say that major contribution to science and technology was by the Western world does not mean that nothing happened in the other cultures. It means it was more significant in the western world. In fact the treatment for most of the diseases prevalent more in the non-Western world like cholera, typhoid, leprosy, malaria, rabies, small pox, polio, hepatitis, measles, pneumonia, tetanus, yellow fever, whooping cough etc. was found by Judeo-Christian cultures.

    Again do not club the Abrahamic faiths together. Islam has contributed to science but less in comparison to other cultures.

    Take the case of Korea which got divided into North Korea and South Korea after the 1953 Korean war ended and the division lines were redrawn. Most Christians from North Korea fled to the south and now the South had a 2% Christian population. After the war North Korea enforced atheism and tolerated Buddhism.

    But South Korea allowed all religions to thrive and within 50 years Christianity became the majority religion and Buddhism declined and the country became the 13TH largest economy in the world by GDP where else North Korea became the 115th in rank.

    In terms of GDP per capita South Korea had a GDP per capita of $28101 for 2014 and ranked 30th.
    North Korea had a GDP of $583 per capita for 2014 and ranked 176.
    (And just for record purposes India had a GDP per capita of $1627 and ranked 143).

    As the cultures were same we can definitely say that atheism and communism have throttled North Korea but Christianity and free markets it espouses have benefitted South Korea.

    You will find the highest rate and high availability of pedophilia and child prostitution in Buddhist countries (like Thailand, Taiwan, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos ). Also the highest rates of suicide. I don’t want to start another debate on this subject but it seems it is something to do with spiritual laws of Buddhism.

    Mohamed said: Kill your enemies for your faith. Your reward is in heaven
    Rama and Krishna said: Kill your enemies as it is your duty even if they are your kin (don’t forgive them are doing justice). You are killing only their body but not the soul.
    Buddha said: Don’t kill.
    Christ said: Don’t kill but bless those who curse you. Bless your enemies.
    Christ goes a longer distance in forgiveness than other religious personalities.

    I am not forcing Christ on anyone but found that when I accepted Christ I found myself to be more compassionate, started supporting orphans, became more charitable towards all causes involving suffering of humans whether Christian or not.

    Your hate towards others will disappear and you will feel love and compassion for them. I did not expect these changes.

    It takes courage and humility to invite Christ and try Him especially when you have never accepted Him.

  162. why? says:

    Ali Sina writes:

    “Muhammad sold his followers a fantasy that if they believe in him they will go to paradise. How this is the same as the disciples believing in Jesus when he did not exist?”

    Simple Ali Sina, there is something called context. first let me quote what Ron had written to which I had replied.

    Rone wrote: “But when you reason you will see that all of his disciples died were killed by non-believers and died a horrible death except for John who was exiled. (They would not choose to die for a lie or suffer such persecution for a fraud).”

    why (myself) wrote: If people are so foolish to kill themselves and others for Muhammad, why do you think jeebus case is any different?

    This reply is under the assumption that jeebus existed and so called disciples also existed and sacrificed themselves, this is no different than what Muhammad followers did. Both are based on absolute LIES and falsehood even if one of them apparently seem to be benevolent. You have limited thinking power.

    “The absurdity of this reasoning is evident. I doubt you are so dim witted to not be able to see the difference.”

    Your arguments are strawman Ali Sina. Don’t assume yourself to be so bright. You are the one with dull witted mind.

    “It must be your immense hatred of Jesus that makes you say absurdities like this. You can’t even pronounce his name correctly. Is it because you don’t know or is it your unbounded hate for him that prevents you to pronounce his name correctly?”

    You are right here Ali Sina. I hate with full heart, all falsehood and propagators of falsehood. Hating evil and falsehood is good.

    “It is funny that a man with this much prejudice and hate should pontificate about God and spirituality.”

    Hating falsehood is NOT at all prejudice. It is based on love for truth. It is funny that one who cannot understand simple logical arguments should pontificate about other’s spiritual capacity or preach about spirituality.

    There is a upanishad verse fits well into your case.

    Mundaka Upanishad: (1:2:8)

    Ignorant of their ignorance, yet wise In their own esteem, these deluded men
    Proud of their vain learning go round and round Like the blind led by the blind.

  163. Sakat says:

    sorry typo it is indeed ‘Higher Ground’

  164. Sakat says:

    @Ron
    I don’t want to hurt you or your beliefs ,but just don’t try to thrust it upon others.Buddha was vehemently opposing the blind beliefs, he used to say in his discourses that ‘don’t believe blindly my words simply because it is said by me and they are true’,this will be a biggest sin then.He said, my words are based on my experiments and i wish you people to experience them practically ,and here is a technique (Vipassana Meditation) which substantiate the authenticity of my each word on practical level. So i love his approach,it appeals me (a person interested in science). I am fond of music ,and especially a great fan of UB40 (i treat them as sufi’s of west ) ,their lyrics of songs contains philosophies of life .I recommend you to listen two songs 1.Higher End 2. One in ten.I hope you will get five good thought provoking nutrient things from listening them.I don’t have enough time for prolong debate so i conclude myself here.

  165. Atheist says:

    The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice. God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are “pleasing to the Lord”.

    Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. “Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.” (Genesis 22:1-18) Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar. Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat. He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith. However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.

    Even though he didn’t kill his son, it is still an incredibly cruel and evil thing to do. If Abraham did that today he would be in jail serving a long sentence as someone’s prison-bitch. It amazes me how Christians see this story as a sign of God’s love. There is no love here, just pure unadulterated evil.

    The first seven chapters of Leviticus have extensive rules regarding animal and food sacrifices. These offerings are supposed to be burnt so that God can smell them. If you read through these it seems clear to me that the priests were getting their followers to make a big feast for them every week. The priests were very particular about what kind of food to bring and how to prepare it.

    Even more peculiar is God’s obsession with first-born sons. In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said “Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.” Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that “consecrate” means a burning sacrifice. These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping. Since any sins in the Old Testament were punishable by death, these priests used the threat of death to extort food and money from their followers. What do we call a scum-bag that threatens to kill your kids unless you pay a ransom? A kidnapper! If these priests were alive today they would be in prison with Abraham.

    However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. “Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death.” I must admit that I am a bit confused by this contradiction, but it might only apply to slaves in your possession. Not that it makes any difference. A human sacrifice is a human sacrifice, and it is just sick.

    Bible Passages About Ritual Human Sacrifice

    Jephthah Burns His Daughter

    “At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, “If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”

    “So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. “My daughter!” he cried out. “My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back.” And she said, “Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin.” “You may go,” Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah’s daughter.” (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

    God Commands Burning Humans

    [The Lord speaking] “The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.” (Joshua 7:15 NLT)

    Josiah and Human Sacrifice

    At the LORD’s command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD’s command, he shouted, “O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you.” (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)

    He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: “You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant.” There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah’s reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD’s Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)

    Human Sacrifice

    Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)

    Child Sacrifice

    And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV) The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.

    Humans are Fuel for Fire

    As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)

    Burn Nonbelievers

    “Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

  166. Atheist says:

    1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

    So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

    The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”

    Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

    Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

    2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

    They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

    Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

    3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

    As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

    What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

    4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

    5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.

    6) David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness” (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

    Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
    Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” [The child dies seven days later.]

    This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

    7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

    “When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

    Once again God approves of forcible rape.

    8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)

    They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

    9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

    Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

  167. A.H. says:

    “Evidence are open and plenty ,the instrument called “logic” and “rationality” is there at your disposal to gauge my statement ,don’t close your eyes to reality.”

    More mere assertions…..facts please!

  168. steve says:

    @Ali Sina
    “No dear. He is no skeptic. He is a faithful believer. He has no understanding of skepticism. His faith is materialism and he cannot accept any other reality other than matter.” I am not a materialist (whatever that is) and you have no idea what my beliefs are.

    ” No proof suffices, no evidence is convincing. Facts are irrelevant.” What facts did Ron present? His “facts” was “contact from the holy sprit” and “famous people share my belief”. And his “I personally can’t think of any other way complexity could arise in the world, except through an intelligence designing it, therefore complex things are designed and my God is the designer”. These are not facts but fallacies.

    “Any thing that goes against his faith he will reject it with no hesitation, without bothering to check the facts. This man is more faithful than any Muslim.” He doesn’t have any facts to support his claims. If he comes back with facts and not just beliefs and hypothesis I will change my view.

  169. steve says:

    @Ron
    “Whenever there is a cross-breed across species (e.g. horse and donkey and not dog and wolf) the product is generally sterile” That’s because they are different species. Perhaps you haven’t thought about what a species is, a species is a group of organism capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring. Imagine that a group of people went off and lived on a isolated Island, and after a thousand generations they developed unusual sexual organs such that they could only breed with those on the Island and not anyone else. There you have a new species it’s not difficult.

    “Most mutations are generally sterile and die early. There are very few who can survive and you and I can debate forever. But that is beside the point.” It’s important to remember that evolution is something that happens to populations and not individuals. The likelihood of an individual surviving and reproducing is a function of its genes, and the environment in which it finds itself. Reproduction does not result in an exact duplicate, but a mixing of an individuals genes with another. So “successful” individuals change the gene pool in a certain direction. “Unsuccessful” individuals were directions in which the gene pool does not tend to go; the information in those genes does not replicate in the next generation. Evolution is the change of the entire gene pool over time. Harmful mutations will be selected out of the gene pool while mutations that increase an individuals survival and reproductive fitness will become more common in the gene pool.

    “Anthony Flew (he wrote more books and did more debates than Hitchens and Dawkins combined) did accept theism after investigating DNA. Oscar Wilde left his hedonistic life and did accept Christianity in his last days. Svetlana (daughter of Stalin) became a Christian despite an atheistic indoctrination and upbringing. Madalyn Murray O’Hair the most famous atheist woman in US had raised her son in atheism and anti-Christian indoctrination but when he was an adult he became a Christian pastor. He considered his mother’s views and hate for Christians and Jesus as the worst place anybody could be born.” Showing that notable or famous people share your belief is not argument and is a logical fallacy. Also I am not an atheist because I have a hatred of Christians and their God, I am an atheist because I don’t see any evidence for any God and certainly not any evidence for the claims of the Christian religion which are illogical and ridiculous.

    “Ask and reach out to the Holy Spirit and he will show you the truth, the way and life. Try Jesus and try the prayer mentioned in my earlier post for a week and if there is no reply from the Holy Spirit” Again your God can contact me any time he wants to, yet me and billions like me have never had any contact from him. Why is this? Perhaps because he doesn’t exist?

    “If there is no reply from the Holy Spirit you’re always free to revert back to your Anti-Christian and Anti-theist or apatheistic views.” So those billions that don’t have any contact from the Holy Spirit are fully justified in not believing in him?

  170. Sakat says:

    @ A.H.

    Evidence are open and plenty ,the instrument called “logic” and “rationality” is there at your disposal to gauge my statement ,don’t close your eyes to reality. .

  171. Sakat says:

    @Ron
    Ron say’s
    /Judaism and Christianity has given the most positive contribution to science, technology today. (You cannot lump all Abrahamic religions to have caused violence. You have to single out Islam for that purpose of reason for violence).

    Majority of the inventions and discoveries have been by Jews and Christians, next is by atheists and followed by others. Jews have won the highest number of Nobel prizes in the world. Next is Christians and third are atheists, followed by others./

    Well , I did a little research and what you said is not accurate. Buddhists or cultures heavily influenced by Buddhism did invent and discover many scientific things, many centuries before they were discovered or invented in the west. Actually there were a few Buddhists who came up with some ideas about atoms, for example, that were pretty close to how things were. (About as close as the Greeks came). If I remember correctly that was around India. Also, if you look at China during the Tang dynasty, Buddhism was at it’s peak and there were more Buddhists in China at that time than other times. Buddhism was flourishing and it was also the Golden age of Buddhism in China as well as the golden age of China in general. During that time, the Chinese were the actual inventors of gun powder (used mainly in fireworks), of porcelain, and they came up with printing (mainly block printing) before the west did. (Also invented playing cards). They also came up with clockwork devices before the west did. They developed sophisticated understandings of astronomy, as well as chemistry and medicine. They created waterproof dust repellent cream, fireproof cement, they drilled deep boreholes to “transport natural gas from bamboo pipelines to stoves where cast iron evaporation pans boiled brine to extract salt” and they invented the first type of rotary fan (which was naturally manual). They also developed the first type of “gas cylinder”. However, since the west became the dominant culture in the world (as of now) many inventions of other nations, countries and cultures are forgotten, especially if the west also made the same invention, although later. No religion is THE SAME as science, they are different. And just because a person who happened to be Christian or a person who happened to be Muslim came up with some great scientific ideas- well it doesn’t mean that it suddenly means that the religion itself is scientific! Many scientists, for example, were persecuted or killed by the church for their discoveries (that the sun is the center of the solar system, that the earth is round, evolution, etc). Even the lightening rod, which we used to protect people from having their house hit by lightening, was something that the church fought because it was originally thought to be “the anger of god”. Christianity, if anything, stood in opposition to scientific discovery, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Islam was too. In fact, I think the church’s very opposition to science and technological advancement is the very reason the west in particular developed so many inventions and scientific advanced: When something is attempted to be repressed, it tends to come back stronger (especially if the repressed really believes something). It’s the same thing as arguments: When two people argue, both sides dig in their heels, both sides finish the argument believing their original ideas more strongly than beforehand. (I.e. arguing with you about the benefit of Buddhism will, in truth, only strengthen your belief that Buddhism is bad. That’s just the nature of things. You can observe this working in action all the time, if you have eyes to see it.) There’s even a study I read about this. So actually, I know I will never convince you of anything, just as I know you will never convince me of anything, because that is how these things work. (I write this more for others than Ron, others who haven’t made up their minds yet). When I say that Buddhism is like a science I say that it functions like a science: It finds it’s truths like a science. In other words, Buddhism bases most of it’s beliefs off of observations and experience. There are a few beliefs, such as rebirth, which are not based on experience, but that belief is extrapolated from other observations. Furthermore, like a science, Buddhism is willing and able to throw away beliefs and ideas that don’t work or that are proven to be inaccurate. This approach of observation of the present moment, and the present time, and the present rules of reality is what Buddhism does. And it is what makes it most like a science. The Abrahamic faiths, on the other hand, find it’s truths like a history. Like history, every truth it has must be trusted entirely on authority. (We would never know anything about the past- who our presidents were, what our countries did, what wars were fought, what major events occurred, etc) if we did not trust that those who came before us had knowledge that we don’t. For example, for me as an Indian, I never lived through World War 2. I never saw it happen. I must trust the generation before me- my parents and grandparents- when they tell me that it happened. If I did not trust in their authority, I could claim that world war 2 never occurred. But I believe that it did, and I only believe this based on authority. So that is what I mean when I say that Buddhism functions like a science. I think history is great, and much of what people say happened in the past is likely true. My problem with the Abrahamic faiths is that, the further back in time you go, the less trustworthy people become. The less you can trust authority. This is for several reasons: First, people back then didn’t live very long. Almost all of Jesus disciples were teenagers. Mary herself was only 17 when she had Jesus. Are we to trust teenagers and base our entire reality on what they claim Jesus said or did? Living to your twenties made you an older adult and thirty was pushing it. Also, Mohammed didn’t even pen the Koran himself, or so I just read, since many people said he couldn’t read or write. Jesus didn’t write the bible either, it was written almost a century after his death. So we are trusting on the authority of adults who were considered old at thirty and considered adults when they were teenagers! We know now that teenagers brains are not fully developed, and I certainly would not trust a teenagers say so on extremely important matters in my life.
    Second- how many people have heard of the game called “Telephone”? It is a childhood game many people know. You take several children, maybe ten, and put them in a line. You tell the first child a phrase, and that child repeats it to the child on his/her left. Then that child repeats it to the child on his/her left, until you get to the end of the line. What happens? The message always comes back garbled. Inaccurate. Completely changed from the original. So if the bible had a hundred years where people orally transmitted it like telephone, well, the message was likely very very very garbled! Now the Koran was, I think, written in Mohammad’s lifetime, but still that being said, he did not write it. That means others heard it and played telephone among themselves until someone wrote it down. Now, the game “telephone” is more accurate when something is written down, but even then, people can accidentally replace words, mess up letters that change meaning, or even occasionally purposefully change something. We have over a thousand years of this written form of telephone being played out for both religions! Finally, there was a serious lack of understanding thousands of years ago about how things work, scientifically. People believed in magic and miracles, and when someone said “I’m going to make the rain come” and then the rain came, people thought it magic. When lightening struck, it was magic. When someone recovered from an illness that seemed to kill them, magic (even if the recovery was entirely explainable). People believed in magic and superstition because they had no understanding of how science works. They functioned using transductive logic. Meaning, they saw a specific example followed by a specific example and believed the first thing caused the second. (My favorite example of this was a real even where a toddler crashed into a telephone pole. At that exact moment, all the lights in the entire area went out. The toddler was absolutly convinced that he caused the black out.). This transductive logic confused people a lot, and they saw magic and miracles where it did not occur. They also believed demons literally walked the earth, as did angels, so it was not so strange to hear someone claim about seeing angels or hearing the voice of god. Furthermore, they had no understanding of mental illness, which is a biggy. If someone saw an angel with wings fly down in heaven right now, or heard the voice of god out in the desert talking to them (as a disembodied voice) we would say they are hallucinating, that it is schizophrenia, or another mental illness. (Some mental illnesses allow people to function except for brief periods of time where they hallucinate). So if people hallucinated, and said they literally heard the voice of god talking to them, people thousands of years ago believed that the voice of god really did talk to them, and they didn’t think it was all in the person’s head. After all, if a person said they saw an angel flying down to earth, why would they disbelieve them? They had no understanding of science, no understanding of mental illness whatsoever. This goes for the time of both Christianity and Islam. Hence, these things make people who lived at those times very unreliable as sources of authority. But some people believe it because they think, well, it was so long ago, and old people are wise, so it must be true. But I think today, we are much wiser about reality then we were thousands of years ago. I don’t think you are going to have as many religions popping up today as back then, unless they are somehow based on logic or unless it’s a charlatan or it’s a mentally ill person that refused to take medications and somehow convinces others despite this (which would be much harder to do). Here’s another example of how unreliable people were in the past- in the past there were many people who easily became Christian saints (in the catholic church) but its rare to have new saint now. Why? Because one of the requirements to becoming a saint is that the person has to have been shown to work a miracle. We see less miracles these days then we did in the past, because we understand reality (thanks to science) better. So it’s thus harder to make someone a saint because that very requirement is very hard to meet. So, when I say that Buddhism is like a science, I am not talking about the scientists who just happened to be Buddhist (or the Christians or Muslims who just happened to be scientists). I am talking about how the religion finds its truth. Does it observe reality and observe experiences and develop it’s truths that way? (Buddhism AND science) Or does it base its truths about the world in a historical way? (If so you have to be able to trust people of the past, and as I have shown, people thousands of years ago are far less trustworthy than they are today. Thus if you choose a historically based religion, you are putting your beliefs on shaky ground because the authority that you trust- the people who came before you- are not very trusty worthy at all).

  172. Indian says:

    Sir Ralph Waldo Emerson’s qoutes
    http://www.hinduwisdom.info/quotes1_20.htm

  173. Indian says:

    Westerners are studying Quantum Physics and are embracing Sanatan Dharma in many ways.
    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/04/11/vedanta-science-self-discovery/

  174. Ali Sina says:

    “You don’t seem to be a knowledge seeker but seem to be a skeptic and skeptics never believe regardless of the evidence”

    No dear. He is no skeptic. He is a faithful believer. He has no understanding of skepticism. His faith is materialism and he cannot accept any other reality other than matter. No proof suffices, no evidence is convincing. Facts are irrelevant. Any thing that goes against his faith he will reject it with no hesitation, without bothering to check the facts. This man is more faithful than any Muslim.

    Skeptic is one who is able to question his belief otherwise everyone is skeptic of other people’s beliefs.

  175. Ron says:

    @Steve,
    You don’t seem to be a knowledge seeker but seem to be a skeptic and skeptics never believe regardless of the evidence.

    Whenever there is a cross-breed across species (e.g. horse and donkey and not dog and wolf) the product is generally sterile. Most mutations are generally sterile and die early. There are very few who can survive and you and I can debate forever. But that is beside the point.

    You are free to believe in your anti-Christian, anti-theistic or apatheistic views. Anthony Flew (he wrote more books and did more debates than Hitchens and Dawkins combined) did accept theism after investigating DNA. Oscar Wilde left his hedonistic life and did accept Christianity in his last days. Svetlana (daughter of Stalin) became a Christian despite an atheistic indoctrination and upbringing. Madalyn Murray O’Hair the most famous atheist woman in US had raised her son in atheism and anti-Christian indoctrination but when he was an adult he became a Christian pastor. He considered his mother’s views and hate for Christians and Jesus as the worst place anybody could be born.

    Ask and reach out to the Holy Spirit and he will show you the truth, the way and life. Try Jesus and try the prayer mentioned in my earlier post for a week and if there is no reply from the Holy Spirit you’re always free to revert back to your Anti-Christian and Anti-theist or apatheistic views.

  176. Ali Sina says:

    @Vishal Kumar

    I don’t pretend to understand Jesus or God. However, what I understand so far is that Jesus is the son of God.

    This filial relationship is not physical, as many Christians think. I don’t believe Jesus was born to a virgin woman. As far as I understand this is a mythology borrowed from older religious lore. In fact according to the Bible the Messiah of the Jews must be a descendant of David.

    The body of Jesus is irrelevant to me, while this is the main dogma of perhaps all Christians. That is the reason I say no Christian will accept my version of Christianity and the reason I don’t call myself a Christian, lest I be denounced as a heretic.

    Just as we have a physical body, we also have a spiritual body. Our spiritual body is even more concrete and real than our physical body. Oure physical body is made of matter and is subject to material laws. We are born from the union of two opposite sexes. We are formed as a zygote. We reproduce ourselves 50 trillion times until we become a fully developed human. Meanwhile the cells that form our body are constantly recycled. They die and new ones are born and take their place. This process continues until we die as individual.

    Our spiritual body is created by God. God is the father and the mother of all living beings, humans, animals and plants. So we are all children of God. There is no difference between us and Jesus. Jesus is the son of God as much as we are His sons and daughters. The only difference between Jesus and us is in size. Jesus is a bigger soul. He is our elder brother.

    Was Jesus sent by God or did he volunteer? I don’t think God tells anyone to do anything against their will. He created all of us free, in His own image. Every soul is free, including animals and insects. Whether it was God’s idea or that of Jesus does not matter. They both must have agreed on the plan.

    Is Jesus an evolved soul or was he created already evolved? I don’t know the answer to this question. I believe he was created evolved from the get go.

    Things of the other world are total mystery to me. I have been praying for understanding for two years and still don’t understand. Was Jesus meant to be sacrificed? That seems to be the case, but why? I don’t know the answer.

    For us this life has so much value. We fear death and think it is something terrible. That because we can’t see the other world. There is no such thing as death. There is transition.

    So, why Jesus had to be sacrificed? Because his mission was complete. He threw away his physical suit and returned Home. In this word he was a humble carpenter, no place to rest his head. In the other world he had a kingdom. Why would he want to stay here?

  177. Ali Sina says:

    @Why
    “If people are so foolish to kill themselves and others for Muhammad, why do you think jeebus case is any different?”

    Muhammad sold his followers a fantasy that if they believe in him they will go to paradise. How this is the same as the disciples believing in Jesus when he did not exist?

    The absurdity of this reasoning is evident. I doubt you are so dim witted to not be able to see the difference. It must be your immense hatred of Jesus that makes you say absurdities like this. You can’t even pronounce his name correctly. Is it because you don’t know or is it your unbounded hate for him that prevents you to pronounce his name correctly?

    It is funny that a man with this much prejudice and hate should pontificate about God and spirituality.

  178. steve says:

    @Ron
    “Explosions in a printing press do not create a dictionary .” This is a straw man. First dictionaries don’t reproduce, second they do not mutate, third dictionaries are not subject to natural selection and fourth the components of dictionary’s do not have natural affinities for each other like the components of cells (proteins, liquid, carbohydrates and other molecules do)

    “However controlled the explosion is or how many times you explode and whatever length of time you take.” Here your misunderstanding of evolutionary theory is showing. Evolution doesn’t depend on “chance” but on cause and effect. In a sexually reproducing species such as our own, genetic diversity is brought about by the recombination of genes and mutation. Evolution happens in extremely small steps, with one step on top of another. An individual doesn’t just suddenly pop into being as a result of an explosion or some other random event.

    “The human DNA Is in every cell of our body and the cell with DNA is designed and carries all the information it needs to replicate itself to form cells, tissues, organs, traits etc and is unique (no two DNA are alike) to every human born and was born.” It’s very crudely “designed”. It replicates itself because it’s programmed by evolution to replicate, DNA that doesn’t replicate will cease to have a part in evolution.

    “This is true of even of animals. This three-billion-lettered DNA structure that belongs only to you. This code identifies you and continually instructs your cells’ behavior.” Yes every individual is genetically unique, evolution could not happen without variation in the gene pool.

    ‘Dr Francis Sellers Collins” Collins accepts the theory of evolution.

    “. . . biologists’ investigation of DNA has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved. . . .
    But there is no law of nature that instructs matter to produce end-directed, self-replicating entities. . . .
    The only satisfactory explanation for the origin of such ‘end-directed, self-replicating’ life as we see on earth is an infinitely intelligent Mind.” Complexity can arise from simplicity, fractals in nature is an example such as the patterns in rivers, leaves and snowflakes. (Here a short list of them http://www.wired.com/2010/09/fractal-patterns-in-nature/ This is much more believable than a “infinitely intelligent mind” designing them.

    “So it’s easy to conclude that DNA is not a naturally occurring pattern. It is a super-intelligent design. Infinitely more superior than our computer designed codes” DNA is a naturally occurring pattern just like waves in the sea are a naturally occurring pattern.

    “As it is a design it must have an extremely INTELLIGENT DESIGNER who is infinitely more knowledgeable than the objects (we humans and all life) he created. This Intelligent designer or God has certainly designed all life.” Did the intelligent designer also design the 99.9% of species that have become extinct?

  179. Ron says:

    @steve and other atheists.
    You have not seen all the videos in its entirety and are itching to argue. Please do so. Also even I felt that majority don’t get any contact from the Holy Spirit but learnt that everyone who tries will get contact. If you try and reach for Him, be sure He WILL ALWAYS respond.

    Anyways I am giving you below reason for intelligent design which made the one of the biggest and foremost atheist of the 20th century into a theist.

    Explosions in a printing press do not create a dictionary . However controlled the explosion is or how many times you explode and whatever length of time you take.
    A dictionary is designed and then only it carries information or knowledge.

    The human DNA Is in every cell of our body and the cell with DNA is designed and carries all the information it needs to replicate itself to form cells, tissues, organs, traits etc and is unique (no two DNA are alike) to every human born and was born. This is true of even of animals. This three-billion-lettered DNA structure that belongs only to you. This code identifies you and continually instructs your cells’ behavior.

    It is a language with a coding and decoding mechanism (thus it is designed)
    The Language of DNA
    •4-Character Alphabet -A,T,C,G (comparable to binary 1 and 0 in computers)
    •DNA is an Encoding / Decoding Mechanism
    • Linguistics Analysis (Analogy)
    • DNA Language
    • Nucleotide Character
    • Codon Letter
    • Gene Word
    • Operon Sentence
    • Regulon Paragraph

    Dr Francis Sellers Collins who was led the human Genome project and was NIH director said “DNA is the language of God” (Was atheist before and then became a Christian)

    Dr James Tour the worlds most famous Nano technologist and scientist (he registers One patent every week!!!) who works building molecules said: “Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science it will bring you closer to God”

    Anthony Flew was the most famous and foremost atheist in the world on the atheist circuit before Hitchens and Dawkins came on the scene with his “God Delusion” book. He was a lifelong atheist and became a theist in his old age and he said after he studied the DNA and the evidence.

    “. . . biologists’ investigation of DNA has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved. . . .
    But there is no law of nature that instructs matter to produce end-directed, self-replicating entities. . . .
    The only satisfactory explanation for the origin of such ‘end-directed, self-replicating’ life as we see on earth is an infinitely intelligent Mind.”
    (Source: Antony Flew. 2007. There is a God: How the world’s most notorious atheist changed his mind. New York: HarperCollins. pp. 123, 131f.)

    So it’s easy to conclude that DNA is not a naturally occurring pattern. It is a super-intelligent design. Infinitely more superior than our computer designed codes.

    As it is a design it must have an extremely INTELLIGENT DESIGNER who is infinitely more knowledgeable than the objects (we humans and all life) he created. This Intelligent designer or God has certainly designed all life.

  180. steve says:

    @Ron
    “Reach out to the Holy Spirit of God in a simple words” The majority of humans don’t get any contact from the Holy Spirit. I have never any had contact from it, so in place of that I have to rely on the logic and evidence. So let’s go through the arguments from your Dr Subodh. First he splits the atheist arguments about God into arguments for Gods non existents and arguments against God. For the arguments of Gods non-existence he claims you need to be omniscience the know that something doesn’t exist. Actually that is not true you can say something doesn’t exist if it has conflicting attributes such as a married bachelor the other way you can rule out the existence of something is if you don’t observe it where you would expect to observe it. If for example I look in my garage and I don’t observe an elephant I can safely say their is no elephant in their. We can rule out the existence of a omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being logically. Second he goes onto the arguments against God, the first – lack of empirical evidence – he just dismisses without realising that if the Christian God exists their should be undeniable evidence for it in the world we experience and observe. The second argument – the argument from suffering – he claims doesn’t disprove God but would only disprove a certain conception of God – God might be evil he says. Again he forgets that the Christian God is said to be all loving. His second point he says is that we also experience pleasure and happiness not just miserably and pain. This is true however their is more than enough suffering in the world to reasonably rule out the existence of a all loving God. He says the same about the argument from bad design however he gives no reason to think the complexity and beauty etc is “designed”. On the last point “creation” he agrees that the concept of creation is not scientific and has never being observed and is faith based. He moves on to arguments for God, his first argument is that billions believe in God and the belief has been around in humans for thousands of years. This is not an argument appealing to numbers is not an argument. His next argument is that ” a design needs a designer” now where is the evidence we are “designed”? He provides none, do tornadoes, rocks and rivers need a designer or a tornado maker or a river maker? No they don’t. His main argument is that the universe is fine tuned for life. First what is life? As far as science is concerned life is just a particular arrangement of atoms, their is nothing special about it. His claim is that the existence of life forming by chance is so improbable it cannot have come about by chance and needs an intelligent designer. This is fallacious reasoning. All life needs are life permitting conditions. This is like saying the probability of me writing this message is a miracle from God because me being here and writing this message is so improbable. This argument ignores the fact that ALL the conditions/causes are in place for me to write this message and the universe unfolded in such a way that it guaranteed that this message would be written.

    I have responding to this persons arguments, so you should be able to respond. If you can’t respond and can’t support your claims claims about existence of God, eternal life etc then you shouldn’t make those claims in the first place if you can’t support them.

  181. Ron says:

    @Sakat and others
    Judaism and Christianity has given the most positive contribution to science, technology today. (You cannot lump all Abrahamic religions to have caused violence. You have to single out Islam for that purpose of reason for violence).

    Majority of the inventions and discoveries have been by Jews and Christians, next is by atheists and followed by others. Jews have won the highest number of Nobel prizes in the world. Next is Christians and third are atheists, followed by others.

    Wars were there in all parts of the world before Judeo-Christianity spread around the world. Man is sinful in nature and wars existed in India, North America, Africa etc. In Africa and Asia (included India) every tribe/clan/kingdom regularly fought for resources, tax and territory against their neighbouring tribe/clan/kingdom. In fact they were so disunited and continually fought each other that the British and other Europeans could defeat them easily. It was the British Raj which united Indian subcontinent under one flag. If the British had not colonised and built a railway system then India would still be a land of divided kingdoms.

    The world’s largest practised apartheid system (caste system and untouchability) was in India and is still in practised a lot in India. I have visited many places in Africa, Asia and the Indian subcontinent and gone to temples, gurudwaras etc. and the rural places and have personally seen the severe discrimination meted out to the people of the lower castes. I as a Tourist did get better treatment because I was paying more than they asked and though I was restricted from many places, I always met some religious touts who demanded extra money for special privileges of entry. Slavery/bonded labour is outlawed in the whole world but still exists in Sub-Saharan Africa and parts of rural India.

    The banking and bankruptcy laws wherein the son doesn’t have to perpetually pay the fathers/forefathers/brothers unpaid loan was started by Christians. Before that in India if a man took a loan and he could not pay the interest and the principal (his son and then grandson would have to pay it). Same thing in Africa, Child sacrifices, bride burning was supported by ethnic religions in Indian subcontinent and Africa.

    It was the British who banned the Sati (bride-burning), Pindhari and Thugs movement (religious robbery and killing of travellers), encouraged widow –remarriage, had laws cancelling feudal loans, forbidding child labor, temple prostitution etc. I was surprised to see child labor thriving in Indian subcontinent & Africa. Crime against women and children is very high in India as well as Nepal (of course Africa also).

    Go to Khajuraho, India and you will see animal sex, orgies, anal sex etc. The Indian Government guides there say that sex in any form was not taboo in pre-British ancient India and India was a free society where everything sexual happened but the British made it a criminal offence. Now whether you want to call it violence against animal and women is your take. Polygamy was highly practised in Africa and Asia (including India). Polyandry was more in India.

    There were no war conventions wherein use of child soldiers was rampant in Africa, Arabia which goes on still today. War is bad but a little sanity to war was brought about by the Geneva conventions, Red Cross , St John ambulance etc. which were started by Christianity.

    I know you may give me examples of Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo etc. but those are isolated incidents which happen more frequently in Asia and Africa but are generally under-reported.

    In Africa and Asia (including India) the children’s milk, polio and small pox vaccines, immunizations etc. were funded a lot by Western Christians. If you are an Asian/African and you see that polio or small pox vaccination mark on your forehand and are fortunate that you did not get any of those disease then be thankful instead of spewing hate and judgement.

    You should note that historically Islam has been victorious against pagan (idol worshipping) forces, atheist /secular forces (Soviets) but have only been stopped/defeated by Judeo-Christian forces.

    Even in the Kashmir valley where insurgency is high and the minority Hindus have left, it is the evangelists and missionaries who are boldy going and preaching despite the existential threat to their lives.

    You need to single out Islam for violence but pray that they see the light of Christ and come to his saving grace. You don’t need to eradicate them but change them with the love of Christ.

  182. A.H. says:

    @sakat
    “Let me tell you bluntly,Abrahamic religions are the cause for the mess (violence) this world is facing today”

    Mere assertions…….evidence please!

  183. Sakat says:

    @Ron
    Let me tell you bluntly,Abrahamic religions are the cause for the mess (violence) this world is facing today.INDIVIDUAL’S EXPERIENCE is not a guarantee for consideration in intellectual world,where every thing is practically experimented before being accepted?.What is your practical experiment with Jesus ,and how it has helped you in surviving in this world till date.Rest is always……………depend on your nod!!!

  184. Ron says:

    @Steve and others
    If you are searching the truth and are a seeker, then you should see all of Dr Subodh’s video as he ardently held for a significant time the very positions of belief which you are holding onto right now.
    He answers many of your questions in a much better way than I would do.

    Reach out to the Holy Spirit of God in a simple words “ God, if you have made me and this world, then come to me in dreams and visions and attest it by letting me know through other sources what is The Way, The Truth, and The Life and I will follow it all the days of my life and if you do not answer in a weeks’ time then I will continue to follow my current way.”

    This Nepalese Hindu found Christ out of accepting challenges and reaching out to God as many did. It is a short video worth seeing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyZV7KnbRvo

    In fact if you just pray BEFORE starting to read the gospel (4 books of John, Mathew, Mark, Luke) that Jesus if you are true then reveal yourself to me, will also do. He will reveal himself to you in dreams, visions and other ways. He (Jesus) will always respond.

    This below second testimony is of a Hindu Brahmin from a Priest family who used to formerly BURN Bibles, hate and persecute Christians and went to make fun of Christians in their church and then…….watch !!!. He is more educated than many of us but found Jesus in surprising way..

  185. Indian says:

    Dr. John Hagelin ( Ph.D Quantum Physics) addresses conference on Vedas and Quantum Physics.
    http://physicsdaily.net/dr-john-hagelin-veda-and-physics-the-science-and-technology-of-the-unified-field/

  186. steve says:

    @Ron
    “Dr. Pandit talks about how to answer the biggest questions in life that concern the choices we make every day, how we can find truth objectively, is eternal life realistic, whether there is evidence for God and which view of God is most accurate (most views of God have at least some truth in them).” If you think he has evidence and good arguments for God (and specifically the Christian God) then you should be able to write them down here without people having to watch hours of videos. Also a question about Eternal life, now eternal is an an infinite amount of time, now that is a long time to live. So the question is, given “you” are an constantly changing entity the “you” now is not recognisable as the ‘you’ at say 5 years old. Nothing (or practically nothing) of that 5 year old is left. So what is going to left of “you” in say 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years time (and any amount of time you nominate is still nothing compared to eternity)? The answer is nothing, nothing at all of the “you” that exists now would be around in that amount of time. So that is one reason why this concept of eternal life is a fantasy.

  187. Indian says:

    Mr. Sina
    Read below to know Vedic Rishis ( composers of Vedas Upanishads )
    http://www.projectglobalawakening.com/2014/04/17/the-seven-sages/

  188. Indian says:

    Ages before Lamarck and Darwin it was held in India that man has passed through 84 lakhs (8,400,000) of birth as plants, animals, as an “inferior species of man” and then as the ancestor of the developed type existing to-day. The theory was not, like modern doctrine of evolution, based wholly on observation and a scientific enquiry into fact but was a rather (as some other matters) an act of brilliant intuition in which observation may also have had some part.

    To the philosophers of India, however, Relativity is no new discovery, just as the concept of light years is no matter for astonishment to people used to thinking of time in millions of kalpas, (A kalpa is about 4,320,000 years). The fact that the wise men of India have not been concerned with technological applications of this knowledge arises from the circumstance that technology is but one of innumerable ways of applying it.

    Sir John Woodroffe, A Tribute to Hinduism, page 246

    Falls back upon the earliest and greatest of Revelations, those of the Sacred Books of India with a Cosmogony which no European conception has ever surpassed.

    Maurice Maeterlinck, India: Culture and Society, page xxxiv

    The invisible excludes nothing, the invisible that excludes nothing is the infinite – the soul of India is the infinite. Philosophers tell us that the Indians were the first ones to conceive of a true infinite from which nothing is excluded. The West shied away from this notion. The West likes form, boundaries that distinguish and demarcate. The trouble is that boundaries also imprison – they restrict and confine. India saw this clearly and turned her face to that which has no boundary or whatever. India anchored her soul in the infinite seeing the things of the world as masks of the infinite assumes – there can be no end to these masks, of course. If they express a true infinity. And It is here that India’s mind boggling variety links up to her infinite soul.

    India includes so much because her soul being infinite excludes nothing. It goes without saying that the universe that India saw emerging from the infinite was stupendous.
    While the West was still thinking, perhaps, of 6,000 years old universe – India was already envisioning ages and eons and galaxies as numerous as the sands of the Ganges. The Universe so vast that modern astronomy slips into its folds without a ripple.

    Huston Smith, A Tribute to Hinduism, page 58

    The Indians came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories.
    The Rig-Veda, is the first Indian literature to set down ideas resembling universal natural laws. Cosmic law is connected with cosmic light, with gods, and, later, specifically with Brahman. It was the Vedic Aryans… who gave the world some of the earliest philosophical texts on the makeup of matter and the theoretical underpinnings for the chemical makeup of minerals. Sanskrit Vedas from thousands of years before Christ implied that matter could not be created, and that the universe had created itself.
    Two thousand years before Pythagoras, philosophers in northern India had understood that gravitation held the solar system together, and that therefore the sun, the most massive object, had to be at its center.” “Twenty-four centuries before Isaac Newton, the Hindu Rig-Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together. The Sanskrit speaking Aryans subscribed to the idea of a spherical earth in an era when the Greeks believed in a flat one. The Indians of the fifth century A.D. calculated the age of the earth as 4.3 billion years; scientists in 19th century England were convinced it was 100 million years.

    Dick Teresi, Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science

    Nevertheless the ancient reputation of the Indians does not permit us to doubt that they have always cultivated astronomy, and the remarkable exactness of the mean motions which they assign to the Sun and the Moon necessarily required very ancient observation.

    Pierre-Simon Laplace The Celestial Key to the Vedas, page 61.

    Hindu are more exact in astronomy and astrology than any other people.
    Tarikh al-Yaqubi, The Foundations of the Composite Culture in India, page 59
    It is the clearest image of the activity of God which any art or religion can boast of. Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth and death of all living creatures, but also the very essence of inorganic matter.

    For modern physicists, then, Shiva’s dance is the dance of subatomic matter. Hundreds of years ago, Indian artist created visual images of dancing Shiva’s in a beautiful series of bronzes. Today, physicist have used the most advanced technology to portray the pattern of the cosmic dance. Thus, the metaphor of the cosmic dance unifies, ancient religious art and modern physics. The Hindus, according to Monier-Williams, were Spinozists more than 2,000 years before the advent of Spinoza, and Darwinians many centuries before Darwin and Evolutionists many centuries before the doctrine of Evolution was accepted by scientists of the present age.

    The Hindu religion is the only one of the world’s great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, no doubt by accident [this part of the quote is often left out], to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still.

    Carl Sagan, God Talks With Arjuna, page 734

    Modern physics has thus revealed that every subatomic particle not only performs an energy dance, but also is an energy dance; a pulsating process of creation and destruction. The dance of Shiva is the dancing universe, the ceaseless flow of energy going through an infinite variety of patterns that melt into one another’’.For the modern physicists, then Shiva’s dance is the dance of subatomic matter. As in Hindu mythology, it is a continual dance of creation and destruction involving the whole cosmos; the basis of all existence and of all natural phenomenon. Hundreds of years ago, Indian artists created visual images of dancing Shivas in a beautiful series of bronzes. In our times, physicists have used the most advanced technology to portray the patterns of the cosmic dance.

    Fritjof Capra, A Tribute to Hinduism, page 298

    Long before it became a scientific aspiration to estimate the age of the earth, many elaborate systems of the world chronology had been devised by the sages of antiquity. The most remarkable of these occult time-scales is that of the ancient Hindus, whose astonishing concept of the Earth’s duration has been traced back to Manusmriti, a sacred book.
    Professor Arthur Holmes, Hinduism And Scientific Quest, page 20

    Hindu cosmography, for example born in hoary antiquity, strikes one in certain ways as surprisingly modern. India has never limited its conception of time to a few crowded millennia. Thousands of years ago India’s sages computed the earth’s age at a little over two billion years, our present era being what is called the seventh Manuvantra. This is a staggering claim. Consider how much scientific evidence has been needed in the West before men could even imagine so enormous a time scale.

    Swami Kriyananada (J. Donald Walters), Crises in Modern Thought, page 94

    Interestingly, modern science has estimated that the age of the earth is about 4 billion years. Scholars feel it is uncanny that the Vedic Aryans could have conceived of such a vast span of time over 3,500 years ago that would be similar to the same figure estimated by science today.

    Dr. Subhash Kak, The Eastern Answers to the Mysteries of Life, page 25

    The movement of stars which was calculated by Hindus 4,500 years ago, does not differ even by a minute from the tables which we are using today. The Hindu systems of astronomy are much more ancient than those of the Egyptians – even the Jews derived from the Hindus their knowledge.

    Jean-Sylvain Baily, World as Seen Under the Lens of a Scientist, page 460

    Religious faith in the case of the Hindus has never been allowed to run counter to scientific laws, moreover the former is never made a condition for the knowledge they teach, but there are always scrupulously careful to take into consideration the possibility that by reason both the agnostic and atheist may attain truth in their own way. Such tolerance may be surprising to religious believers in the West, but it is an integral part of Vedantic belief.

    Romain Rolland, The life of Vivekananda and the universal gospel. 5th ed, page 229
    India – the land of Vedas, the remarkable works contains not only religious ideas for a perfect life, but also facts which science has proved true. Electricity, radium, electronics, airship, all are known to the seers who founded the Vedas.

    Ella Wheeler Wilcox, Human Resource Development and Ancient Sanskrit Literature, page 19 –

    “Vakratunda Mahakay Suryakoti Samaprabha” Mantra,Shows the Big Bang Theory……how wonder it.
    “Surya Devalay” is Located at Konark in Odissah State.This is Hindu temple this temple like A Chort.Suryadev Is the Driver(sarathi)of this chort And It has Seven Horses.now Remember The Dispertion of light.The white light is Suryadev And the Seven Colours are the Seven Horses……

  189. Indian says:

    Mr. Sina
    Quantum Physics has proved that Non-duality ( Advait), reincarnation are true and has disproved resurrection, one-life philosophy , eternal suffering for non believers and eternal enjoyment for believers.

    https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/God/Nils/God_and_Quantum_Physics

  190. A.H. says:

    “Trust me, most Hindus do NOT believe in a 2000 year old dead Jew”

    He is not dead, He is still alive. Jesus taught and His followers believed and still believe that each of us will survive the death personally and pass into a spiritual realm. In contrast to bhudism that teaches that we will not survive death personally, but that we at the moment that we die could be reincarnated for example as a cockroach somewhere in the jungle in South America.

  191. Ron says:

    Did Jesus exist as a historical person. See the below an extract from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus.

    You will also find lots of historical evidence below. You can reject the same out of and hateful mindset.
    “There is near unanimity among scholars that Jesus existed historically, although biblical scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels. While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness, with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed, known as the Christ myth theory. “
    Even the Dalai Lama does not dispute the historical existence of Jesus but says that Jesus was an enlightened master. Sam Harris, Anthony Flew, Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins do not dispute the historicity of Jesus.

    The Bible has been year by year consistently the largest selling book in the world since printing presses were made. In the 15th century.
    It is the largest translated book in the world (even in Braille, Audio etc.).
    No other scriptures are fully in Braille. Christians believe that Jesus is alive and touches us if we seek him as experienced by these medical doctors (mentioned in earlier post) who are NOT hallucinating but may be treating hallucinators (patients).

    Mohamed’s disciples killed for Islam and for Mohammed and died as a result. Mohamed said for establishing peace, you have to kill people.

    Krisna said for establishing peace, do your duty and kill your kin. Krisna and Ram’s disciples were instructed to kill for whatever reason and got killed. (Though they are considered mythological figures )

    Buddha said for establishing peace, run away from people/world. Buddha did not command to kill, did not command to forgive but commanded to stay away from the world and focus on personal spiritual enlightenment. (that is why even in Buddhist majority countries the largest number of orphanages, Aids and leprosy care homes, homes for the destitute are run by Christians wherein the inmates are Buddhist).

    Christ said for establishing peace, follow me, love your enemies, bless them and forgive them.

    Jesus ‘disciples laid down their lives (they were killed by non-believers) for their faith and did not kill anyone because Jesus did not command to kill but commanded them to forgive. Help the poor, heal the sick, blind and care for the old, widows and the orphans.

    The highest number of first adoptions of orphans in the world is done by Christians.
    More than 85% of second orphan adoptions around the world is done by Christians. You will extremely rarely or never see Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Asian, South Asian Parents doing second adoptions.

    The highest number of fostering of multiple kids (taking the burden of taking care of kids whose parents are in prison or rehab or invalid or dead) in the western world is done by Christian parents. You will extremely rarely or never see Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Asian, South Asian Parent fostering kids.

    The majority of the AIDS and Leprosy homes in the world and specially in the third world is run by Christians wherein the majority of the inmates are non-Christians.

    The highest charity raised for the care and healing of orphans, widows and the sick is done by Christians.

    No other faith comes near to doing good to mankind than what Christianity does.

    You may argue by saying what about the crusades and world wars and colonization etc. These were political incidents in history and not espoused or commanded by Jesus.

    By your logic of saying that anything ancient is hearsay and does not hold in a court of law applies to all ancient religions and so we can say that all of them never existed.

    You said “Blasphemy is the worst sin in Judaism’s eyes. Besides, if God exists why would He allow him to be punished if He were innocent does not make any sense.” According to some religious Jews it was Blasphemy but according to other Jews (Jesus followers) it was foretold that the Messiah would come and die and rise up again.
    This was difficult for me to understand and also for Dr Subodh Pandit and only when the Holy Spirit touches you (read the gospel of John first then later please read Mathew, Mark, Luke and the Acts and the Epistles) will you understand that Christ died for our sins.

    You will then feel a compassion for the poor, sick and the needy and pangs of hunger for the hungry and not hatred for Christians and Muslim or others who do not believe in your belief system.

    In Addis Ababa many children (orphans) live in sewers for 4 decades. Many Muslims, Hindu businessmen, Buddhist businessmen, secular businessmen, atheists etc. passed by but never did it occur to them that we could help this teenage orphans. It took only one Christian who traversed the area for the first time and felt the compassion and put his own money and went broke but rented a home for them and then established an orphanage as God met his needs.

    There are basically 3 kinds of people:
    1) Believers are people who will believe views regardless of the evidence.
    2) Skeptics are people who will discard views regardless of the evidence.
    3) Inquirers are people who will withhold judgement until they have reviewed the evidence and then focus on the weight of evidence.

    Inquirers are the ones who have made by far the most advances in knowledge in science, history and philosophy and this is the position that has the best chance of providing the best benefits and the most truth.

    I and I believe even Ali Sina are inquirers and so found the truth. If you are a skeptic then NO amount of evidence will change your belief system.

    When you have Christ in you, believe me that you will feel guilty when you pass by a panhandler/homeless /orphan and not give a help.

    When you don’t have Christ in you then you will rationalize and have every reason like being busy, no change, they-really-don’t-need-help, I-need-help-myself, I-better-give-it-to-my-relations/countrymen/religion, let-me-make-more-money-than-I-will-give etc.

    I am reposting this video and I am sure that you have not seen it in its entirety or want to remain a skeptic otherwise you would have changed your stance/view even marginally.

    READ THIS FIRST. There are so many Ph.Ds. who have shown mammoth amounts of evidence for Christianity that I have never seen any other worldview even begin to rival. This seminar is one of the more comprehensive treatments summarizing some of the vast evidence for Christianity and comparing it with atheism, certain philosophies (Relativism, Pluralism and Exclusivism), major world religions (Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Judaism) and some with modern Darwinism. Which follows the weight of evidence best? Dr. Pandit talks about how to answer the biggest questions in life that concern the choices we make every day, how we can find truth objectively, is eternal life realistic, whether there is evidence for God and which view of God is most accurate (most views of God have at least some truth in them). Dr. Subodh K Pandit describes his search for truth and how it led him from Hinduism, to atheism and eventually to Christianity.
    Dr. Pandit’s path is a path many academics and others have followed. They kind of just heard about God when young, but not much about the evidence (since most pastors are not trained in scientific and historical evidence and evidence for God is banned from public schools for several reasons). Because of this, atheism appears much more rational on the surface, so they go that route for a while. But, as they study deeper into the historical and scientific evidence, they realize that atheism has very serious problems and has very serious conflicts with the many major lines of evidence. They see more and more that Christianity (and in some cases other religions), have some quite compelling evidence, better than any other worldview.

    Searching for the truth is always valuable and beneficial in life. But, God does not condemn people for making honest mistakes in their conclusions. If we follow the evidence and truth we have, then God respects that, wink at ignorance and there will be quite a few in heaven that came to some different conclusions, but did their best to follow the truths they know (see Romans 2:12-16, Acts 17:21-30, etc.).
    Parts 1-8 starts with the 1st question of whether God exists or not and rational proofs and crucial foundational philosophy (other parts will be uploaded soon), It is an open, honest, politically incorrect, and yet bold, pursuit after the ‘truth’ of the matter from a standpoint that is about as objective as you can hope to find. Some arguments may be familiar and some criticize them. But, he explains why they are very valid and compelling in some new ways.

    The final conclusion regarding the Bible and Jesus is very compelling and difficult to deny. Check the notes for the outline (parts 1-8 are done, more will be coming soon).

    This first video deals with the depressing nothingness of atheism and the atmosphere of investigation needed to follow the weight of evidence.

    You need to see all the videos and check out his sound reasoning. It will surely stop you from doubting Jesus, spewing hate against all Christians and never feel compassion towards the needy, poor, underprivileged etc.

    When you have Christ in you, believe me that you will feel guilty when you pass by a panhandler/homeless/orphan and not give a help.

    When you don’t have Christ in you then you will rationalize and have every reason like being busy, no change, they-really-don’t-need-help, I-need-help-myself, I-better-give-it-to-my-relations/countrymen/religion, let-me-make-more-money-than-I-will-give etc.

  192. Ron says:

    Did Jesus exist as a historical person. See the below an extract from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus.
    You will also find lots of historical evidence below. You can reject the same out of and hateful mindset.
    “There is near unanimity among scholars that Jesus existed historically, although biblical scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels. While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness, with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed, known as the Christ myth theory. “
    Even the Dalai Lama does not dispute the historical existence of Jesus but says that Jesus was an enlightened master. Sam Harris, Anthony Flew,Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins do not dispute the historicity of Jesus.

    The Bible has been year by year consistently the largest selling book in the world since printing presses were made. In the 15th century. It is the largest translated book in the world (even in Braille, Audio etc.). No other scriptures are fully in Braille. Christians believe that Jesus is alive and touches us if we seek him as experienced by these medical doctors who are NOT hallucinating but may be treating hallucinators (patients).

    Mohamed’s disciples killed for Islam and for Mohammed and died as a result. Mohamed said for establishing peace, you have to kill people.

    Christ said for establishing peace, follow me, love your enemies, bless them and forgive them.

    Krisna said for establishing peace, do your duty and kill your kin. Krisna and Ram’s disciples were instructed to kill for whatever reason and got killed. (Though they are considered mythological figures )

    Buddha said for establishing peace, run away from people/world. Buddha did not command to kill, did not command to forgive but commanded to stay away from the world and focus on personal spiritual enlightenment. (that is why even in Buddhist majority countries the largest number of orphanages, Aids and leprosy care homes, homes for the destitute are run by Christians wherein the inmates are Buddhist).

    Jesus ‘disciples laid down their lives (they were killed by non-believers) for their faith and did not kill anyone because Jesus did not command to kill but commanded them to forgive. Help the poor, heal the sick, blind and care for the old, widows and the orphans.

    The highest number of first adoptions of orphans in the world is done by Christians.
    More than 85% of second orphan adoptions around the world is done by Christians. You will extremely rarely or never see Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Asian, South Asian Parents doing second adoptions.
    The highest number of fostering of multiple kids (taking the burden of taking care of kids whose parents are in prison or rehab or invalid or dead) in the western world is done by Christian parents. You will extremely rarely or never see Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Asian, South Asian Parent fostering kids.
    The majority of the AIDS and Leprosy homes in the world and specially in the third world is run by Christians wherein the majority of the inmates are non-Christians.
    The highest charity raised for the care and healing of orphans, widows and the sick is done by Christians.

    No other faith comes near to doing good to mankind than what Christianity does.

    You may argue by saying what about the crusades and world wars and colonisation etc. These were political incidents in history and not espoused or commanded by Jesus.

    By your logic of saying that anything ancient is hearsay and does not hold in a court of law applies to all ancient religions and so we can say that many of them never existed.
    You said “Blasphemy is the worst sin in Judaism’s eyes. Besides, if God exists why would He allow him to be punished if He were innocent. does not make any sense.”
    According to some religious Jews it was Blasphemy but according to other Jews (Jesus followers) it was foretold that the Messiah would come and die and rise up again. This was difficult for me to understand and also for Dr Subodh Pandit and only when the Holy Spirit touches you (read the gospel of John first then later please read Mathew, Mark, Luke and the Acts and the Epistles) will you understand that Christ died for our sins.

    You will then feel a compassion for the poor, sick and the needy and pangs of hunger for the hungry and not hatred for Christians and Muslim or others who do not believe in your belief system.

    In Addis Ababa many children (orphans) live in sewers for 4 decades. Many Muslims, Hindu businessmen, Buddhist businessmen, secular businessmen, atheists etc. passed by but never did it occur to them that we could help this teenage orphans. It took only one Christian who traversed the area for the first time and felt the compassion and put his own money and went broke but rented a home for them and then established an orphanage as God met his needs.

    There are basically 3 kinds of people:
    1) Believers are people who will believe views regardless of the evidence.
    2) Skeptics are people who will discard views regardless of the evidence.
    3) Inquirers are people who will withhold judgement until they have reviewed the evidence and then focus on the weight of evidence.

    Inquirers are the ones who have made by far the most advances in knowledge in science, history and philosophy and this is the position that has the best chance of providing the best benefits and the most truth.
    I and I believe even Ali Sina are inquirers and so found the truth. If you are a skeptic then NO amount of evidence will change your belief system.

    When you have Christ in you, believe me that you will feel guilty when you pass by a panhandler/homeless /orphan and not give a help.
    When you don’t have Christ in you then you will rationalise and have every reason like being busy, no change, they-really-don’t-need-help, I-need-help-myself, I-better-give-it-to-my-relations/countrymen/religion, let-me-make-more-money-than-I-will-give etc.

    I am reposting this video and I am sure that you have not seen it in its entirety or want to remain a skeptic otherwise you would have changed your stance/view even marginally.

    READ THIS FIRST. There are so many Ph.Ds. who have shown mammoth amounts of evidence for Christianity that I have never seen any other worldview even begin to rival. This seminar is one of the more comprehensive treatments summarizing some of the vast evidence for Christianity and comparing it with atheism, certain philosophies (Relativism, Pluralism and Exclusivism), major world religions (Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Judaism) and some with modern Darwinism. Which follows the weight of evidence best? Dr. Pandit talks about how to answer the biggest questions in life that concern the choices we make every day, how we can find truth objectively, is eternal life realistic, whether there is evidence for God and which view of God is most accurate (most views of God have at least some truth in them). Dr. Subodh K Pandit describes his search for truth and how it led him from Hinduism, to atheism and eventually to Christianity.

    Dr. Pandit’s path is a path many academics and others have followed. They kind of just heard about God when young, but not much about the evidence (since most pastors are not trained in scientific and historical evidence and evidence for God is banned from public schools for several reasons). Because of this, atheism appears much more rational on the surface, so they go that route for a while. But, as they study deeper into the historical and scientific evidence, they realize that atheism has very serious problems and has very serious conflicts with the many major lines of evidence. They see more and more that Christianity (and in some cases other religions), have some quite compelling evidence, better than any other worldview.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0yIljyu9K8&¬list=PLADA90FCF20A839A1&index=1

    Searching for the truth is always valuable and beneficial in life. But, God does not condemn people for making honest mistakes in their conclusions. If we follow the evidence and truth we have, then God respects that, wink at ignorance and there will be quite a few in heaven that came to some different conclusions, but did their best to follow the truths they know (see Romans 2:12-16, Acts 17:21-30, etc.).

    Parts 1-8 starts with the 1st question of whether God exists or not and rational proofs and crucial foundational philosophy (other parts will be uploaded soon), It is an open, honest, politically incorrect, and yet bold, pursuit after the ‘truth’ of the matter from a standpoint that is about as objective as you can hope to find. Some arguments may be familiar and some criticize them. But, he explains why they are very valid and compelling in some new ways.

    The final conclusion regarding the Bible and Jesus is very compelling and difficult to deny. Check the notes for the outline (parts 1-8 are done, more will be coming soon).

    This first video deals with the depressing nothingness of atheism and the atmosphere of investigation needed to follow the weight of evidence.

    You need to see all the videos and check out his sound reasoning. It will surely stop you from doubting Jesus, spewing hate against all Christians and never feel compassion towards the needy, poor, underprivileged etc.

    When you have Christ in you, believe me that you will feel guilty when you pass by a panhandler/homeless/orphan and not give a help.

    When you don’t have Christ in you then you will rationalise and have every reason like being busy, no change, they-really-don’t-need-help, I-need-help-myself, I-better-give-it-to-my-relations/countrymen/religion, let-me-make-more-money-than-I-will-give etc.

  193. Vishal Kumar says:

    @A.H.& Ali Sina

    Dear A.H., Are u Ali Sina’s associate? If not please do not answer me because I like to know Ali Sina point of view not Christian society belief regarding Jesus.
    I post again for Ali Sina who was Jesus?

    1. God or

    2 Highly evolved spiritual soul who came willingly on this earth or.

    3 Send by God to teach humans or .

    4 Eventually his past Karma lead him to take birth on particular land to reach highest state of evolution & get Moksha.

    moksha (Sanskrit: मोक्ष mokṣa, “liberation”) or mukti (Sanskrit: मुक्ति, “release”) is liberation from samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth or reincarnation and all of the suffering and limitation of worldly existence. It is a state of absolute freedom, peace and bliss.
    The soul experiences ultimate bliss and lives under inspiration of God. This is the most satisfying and enjoyable state one can have.

  194. why? says:

    “Jesus was historical and existed is accepted by all reputed historians.”

    Wrong. There is no contemporary evidence whatsoever for his existence. There is no archaeological evidence supporting his existence. This is pure delusional LIES christians spin to convince themselves.

    “Many may suspect that He was either delusional, fraud or divine as he claimed.”

    He was delusional.

    “But when you reason you will see that all of his disciples died were killed by non-believers and died a horrible death except for John who was exiled. (They would not choose to die for a lie or suffer such persecution for a fraud).”

    If people are so foolish to kill themselves and others for Muhammad, why do you think jeebus case is any different?

    “That movement changed the world, changed emperors, kings and rulers despite the highest persecution.
    His standards of morality and forgiveness are/were higher than any other historical person. (e.g. bless your enemies, turn the other cheek around etc.) This is all by eyewitness accounts.”

    No…sorry…Buddha was a much more knowledgeable and a better person than this imaginary jesus.

    “He was crucified for alleged blasphemy and not for any other sin or crime.”

    Blasphemy is the worst sin in Judaism’s eyes. Besides, if God exists why would He allow him to be punished if He were innocent. does not make any sense.

    “If he was delusional he could not espouse such high moral ethics, statements and standards.”

    One can ardently believe in delusions or something unreal, and still espouse so called high moral ethics etc.

    “If he was a fraud He would have recanted.
    He did died and rose again as his tomb was empty and there were witnesses . Also nobody could survive a crucifixion which was always fatal as the Romans tested whether the crucified person was dead.”

    These are all rumours and hearsay that gospel accounts spread, after decades of alleged death of jeebus. None of these will count as witnesses in a court of law.

    “These twelve disciples mostly uneducated disciples went on to change the world. More than half of the world`s population believe he was holy (this includes all sects of Christianity, Islam, Druze, Sufis, Bahais etc.)”

    Even if the entire world believes in LIES and falsehood, still they are LIES and falsehood. Numbers small or large do not change the TRUTH.

    “Even several Hindus like Dr. Deepak Chopra, Vivekananda considers Him enlightened. (By the way Deepak Chopra also stated that stories of Ramayana and Mahabharata are mythological stories but give us very good values and inspiration.) Many Hindus and Buddhist consider him to be an incarnation of God and do revere him.”

    Trust me, most Hindus do NOT believe in a 2000 year old dead Jew. Deepak Chopra is a fraudster out to earn money and squeeze it out of Western people. Vivekananda was merely applying common sense for public relations.

    “As such he was not delusional, nor fraud and was divine.”

    Sorry..if jeebus really existed, he was a misled delusional fellow.

    “Christians believe that He is Son of the Living God and nothing less. He is still alive and will answer you if you earnestly seek him. this was found by Dr Subodh Pandit, Dr Nabeel Qureshi, Dr Sudharshan, Dr Bekeerde, Dr Preeti Krishna and many others.”

    All of these have hallucinations. As I said earlier, truth is determined through proper evidence and logical consistency of claims.

    “As for why are NDE`s changing the world look up the below. Have an open mind and watch without bias and it will change you. ”

    Anybody can spin stories about subjective experiences. We cannot believe them blindly.

  195. Ron says:

    Jesus was historical and existed is accepted by all reputed historians.
    Many may suspect that He was either delusional, fraud or divine as he claimed.
    But when you reason you will see that all of his disciples died were killed by non-believers and died a horrible death except for John who was exiled. (They would not choose to die for a lie or suffer such persecution for a fraud).
    That movement changed the world, changed emperors, kings and rulers despite the highest persecution.
    His standards of morality and forgiveness are/were higher than any other historical person. (e.g. bless your enemies, turn the other cheek around etc.) This is all by eyewitness accounts.

    He was crucified for alleged blasphemy and not for any other sin or crime.

    If he was delusional he could not espouse such high moral ethics, statements and standards.
    If he was a fraud He would have recanted.
    He did died and rose again as his tomb was empty and there were witnesses . Also nobody could survive a crucifixion which was always fatal as the Romans tested whether the crucified person was dead.

    These twelve disciples mostly uneducated disciples went on to change the world. More than half of the world`s population believe he was holy (this includes all sects of Christianity, Islam, Druze, Sufis, Bahais etc.) Even several Hindus like Dr. Deepak Chopra, Vivekananda considers Him enlightened. (By the way Deepak Chopra also stated that stories of Ramayana and Mahabharata are mythological stories but give us very good values and inspiration.) Many Hindus and Buddhist consider him to be an incarnation of God and do revere him.

    As such he was not delusional, nor fraud and was divine. Christians believe that He is Son of the Living God and nothing less. He is still alive and will answer you if you earnestly seek him. this was found by Dr Subodh Pandit, Dr Nabeel Qureshi, Dr Sudharshan, Dr Bekeerde, Dr Preeti Krishna and many others.

    As for why are NDE`s changing the world look up the below. Have an open mind and watch without bias and it will change you.

  196. A.H. says:

    @Vishal Kumar,

    Ali Sina can speak for himself. Though your questions are off topic they are very interesting. As you know followers of Jesus believed and still believe that He founded a community (Church) 2000 years ago, and that His Church still is present in the world. The also believe that Jesus is God and that Jesus came into the world to redeem mankind with His precious Blood on the Cross. Here below you will find an interesting link of the whole story.

    http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/06/christ-founded-a-visible-church/

  197. Indian says:

    Go through following link
    http://www.metaphysicalmusing.com

  198. Vishal Kumar says:

    @Ali Sina

    I regards you great scholar. With due regard I like to ask to you what you believe who was Jesus?
    1. God or

    2 Highly evolved spiritual soul who came willing on this earth or.

    3 Send by God to teach humans or .

    4 Eventually his past Karma leads him to take birth on particular land to reach highest state of evolution & get Moksha.

    moksha (Sanskrit: मोक्ष mokṣa, “liberation”) or mukti (Sanskrit: मुक्ति, “release”) is liberation from samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth or reincarnation and all of the suffering and limitation of worldly existence. It is a state of absolute freedom, peace and bliss.
    The soul experiences ultimate bliss and lives under inspiration of God. This is the most satisfying and enjoyable state one can have.

  199. Indian says:

    Mr. Sina & faithfreedom2014
    What do you think who composed Vedas Upanishads Bhagawadgita ? Were they Neanderthals or Homosapiens or spiritually advanced Aryas ?

  200. why? says:

    To Ali Sina:

    There are some differences in what people experience. From the little that I understand it appears to me that our after death experience is somehow subjective to our belief system.

    Do you think God (in afterlife) would propagate and strengthen falsehood through elaborate staged shows or would He rather teach souls truth? Is correct knowledge important for God or mere strengthening of delusions through elaborate drama for temporary comfort is important to Him?

    Can one get true happiness through strengthening of delusions or belief systems? Would God really create such a Universe and that too an afterlife?

    I think NOT. This is why I say all of these are hallucinations.

    No I don’t think what the NDErs report is the product of hallucination. Apart from the fact that many of these stories are verifiable and I posted a dozen of them in Why I Believe in God and Afterlife Now, they are also consistent.

    I bet none of these verifiable stories are about afterlife, which cannot be verified.

    Lets see the verifiable stories and figure out if there can be alternate explanations.

  201. why? says:

    To Ali Sina:

    There are some differences in what people experience. From the little that I understand it appears to me that our after death experience is somehow subjective to our belief system.
    =================================================================

    Do you think God (in afterlife) would propagate and strengthen falsehood through elaborate staged shows or would He rather teach souls truth? Is correct knowledge important for God or mere strengthening of delusions through elaborate drama for temporary comfort is important to Him?

    Can one get true happiness through strengthening of delusions or belief systems? Would God really create such a Universe and that too an afterlife?

    I think NOT. This is why I say all of these are hallucinations.

  202. why? says:

    To Ali Sina:

    There are some differences in what people experience. From the little that I understand it appears to me that our after death experience is somehow subjective to our belief system.
    =================================================================

    Do you think God (in afterlife) would propagate and strengthen falsehood through elaborate staged shows or would He rather teach souls truth? Is correct knowledge important for God or mere strengthening of delusions through elaborate drama for temporary comfort is important to Him?

    Can one get true happiness through strengthening of delusions or belief systems? Would God really create such a Universe and that too an afterlife?

    I think NOT. This is why I say all of these are hallucinations.

    =======================================
    No I don’t think what the NDErs report is the product of hallucination. Apart from the fact that many of these stories are verifiable and I posted a dozen of them in Why I Believe in God and Afterlife Now, they are also consistent.
    ====================================

    I bet none of these verifiable stories are about afterlife, which cannot be verified.

    Lets see the verifiable stories and figure out if there can be alternate explanations.

  203. why? says:

    testing

  204. Sakat says:

    @faithfreedom2014

    In that case the same criteria applies to Jesus also ,in a sense Christianity too a cult wasn’t it.

  205. why? says:

    There are some differences in what people experience. From the little that I understand it appears to me that our after death experience is somehow subjective to our belief system.
    ==================================================================

    Isn’t it convenient that NDEs are subjective to one’s belief system? You don’t find anything strange in this.

    If God exists, would He rather teach truth to each soul or would he just continue to keep souls in ignorance about true nature of afterlife through elaborate drama in afterlife?

    Would God rather teach truth or propagate and stregthen falsehoods even in afterlife, just as it happens in physical life?

    These questions should show you, that NDE about seeing non-verifiable things (subjective belief system) is a product of imagination and nothing else.

    =============================================================
    No I don’t think what the NDErs report is the product of hallucination. Apart from the fact that many of these stories are verifiable and I posted a dozen of them in Why I Believe in God and Afterlife Now, they are also consistent.
    ==========================================================

    I would like to see verifiable ones. I am sure these verifiable events belong to this world only, otherwise they would NOT be verifiable.

  206. why? says:

    This video is about a Buddhist monk who had a NDE
    ==========================================

    Dear ALI SINA,

    Did you see this video? Do you need any more evidence that christian media posting NDE experiences are FAKE?

    Christian media creates umpteen videos of so called NDE experiences, of which 99 % are fake.

    As for the atheist video, it is clear that the guy unconsciously was fed with fear of hell from childhood, and it just fired in his brain during so called near death experience. None of these experiences prove anything.

  207. faithfreedom2014 says:

    Sakat,

    You are showing the testimony of a few delusional cultists as evidence that Sai Baba was a holy man? So why not believe in Muslims? Does not their devotion to Muhammad prove he was a holy man?

    Most so called Indian holy men, especially the modern ones who made millions and billions of money in donation were charlatan.

  208. faithfreedom2014 says:

    @ Indian
    “Do you think our ancestors were Homo sapiens or Neanderthals or Apes?””

    All the above. Our ancestors were ape and we are still ape. That is our family line.

    Neanderthals we a group of humans who went to Europe and Asia and thrived, until we homo sapience migrated to Europe a few hundred thousand years after them. probably we destroyed them but genetic evidence show that we also intermixed with them. All whites have neanderthal genes in them. Pure humans with no neanderthal genes are the sub-Saharan Africans.

    Next time you insult someone calling him neanderthal, think again.

  209. faithfreedom2014 says:

    Ron, if Buddha is in hell then God is a malevolent sadist unworthy of worship.

    I don’t say this month is laying. Probably he had this experience, however it is more likely that he was deceived. The alternative that God is a sadist, sick psychopath that sends even good people to hell for not believing in Jesus is so sickening that it is foolish to believe it.

  210. Ra says:

    @Ron, The video about the Buddhist monk who had an NDE uses scare tactics. Believe in Jesus… or else

  211. Sakat says:

    @Faith Freedom.Com
    Don’t try to peddle from one leg to move ahead ,the result would be fatal.Nature has bestowed us with two legs ,be a proper businessman or else loss is inevitable. Here goes your recipe for your idle leg ,this is my gift for you.

  212. Phoenix says:

    @Ron

    Yes that was an interesting vid.
    ===
    @Indian

    I know your question was for Ali Sina and perhaps he can answer too.

    \\Do you think our ancestors were Homo sapiens or Neanderthals or Apes?//

    Here’s an article stating Europeans are a result of Homo sapien/Africans who mixed with Neanderthal

    And here’s an article claiming all non sub-saharan negroids have neanderthal dna in them.It seems sub-saharan black africans are the only “pure” homo sapiens then.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

  213. steve says:

    @ Phoenix
    “Notice that complete destruction of the brain or brain stem is not necessary for determining brain death” This is another example of you changing the subject, you claimed people come back from brain death remember? That has never happened nor is it possible.

    “You’re asking for a physical location of consciousness,another ontological error” This is nonsense, so if someone asks you where you are, your response would be my consciousness has no physical location this is a ontological error?

    “The problem with using universal statements is that you’ll have to either have universal opinion on your side or meet your burden of proof,both is highly unlikely in your case.” Do all things have a boundary? Yes they do they because if they did not we would not be able perceive it as a particular thing with its own identity.

    “So do not use terms like “all”,”everything” and “none” because a student of logic recognize them instantly and you’ll be left unable to defend them.” This is your logic notice your own logic makes a universal statement?

    “You have two options from a Materialist’s perspective,either the mind and brain are identical,sharing all the same properties and characteristics or the mind is an illusion” The mind is just software being run on the brain as far as I am concerned.

    “This statement directly contradicts your universal statement above that nothing is permanent but now energy cannot be destroyed.When you make such blatant contradictions,I have to dismiss your claims” I am talking about particular forms of matter/energy such as humans, stars , trees, mosquitoes and so on. All the particular forms die but the matter/energy doesn’t die it just becomes something else. For example in a humans case the matter might be transformed into worm food.

    “Consciousness can be aware of anything with or without a body.” It can’t be aware without a body.

    “Attaching itself to a body is for functional purposes.” It just attaches itself? How then can it be be aware of the body and physical world? How for example does it receive information from the sensory organs?

    “If it does not have a body then it cannot function permanntly in the physical plane and is mostly restricted to non-physical dimension” What can it do without a body in this non physical dimension?

    “No,I do not call humans existent things because a) that’s degrading to our species and b) your definition is flawed per all dictionaries(english,medical and legal)” What should we call humans then if not existent beings or things?

    “Ketamine was invented in the second half of the 2oth century and people have been reporting NDEs since the time of Plato.Clearly there’s a discrepancy,since the drug did not exist centuries ago” So it proves NDE is happening in the brain. Their is no reason why NDEs cannot be produced by naturally occurring drugs in the brain. You just deny that based on your belief in an afterlife not any logical or scientific reason.

    “Well,even believers can be wrong” In this particular case their not wrong, all aspects of NDE can be experienced by taking ketamine.

    “Atheist reject experience,logic and intuition as valid sources,we are once again left with the Atheist providing physical evidence against non-physical causation.” Well where then is the logical proof for the afterlife? I have asked this several times now and you have not answered it.

    Materialsm is the epistemological position of empiricism.All knowledge is acquired via the senses and proven via the inductive method of science.You accept the method but reject the label.” I say all empirical knowledge is gained through experiment and observation, philosophical knowledge is gained by reasoning. So far you have provided neither. You have given no empirical evidence of an afterlife (indeed you seem to be saying it’s impossible to ever have empirical evidence for it), And you certainly haven’t given any logical proof.

  214. Phoenix says:

    No one has ever come back from complete brain death and I explained why.//
    You have a complete misunderstanding of what suffices as brain death.According to the Journal of American Medical Association there are 4 clinical criteria for determining brain death:
    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=181900#CLINICALCRITERIAFORBRAINDEATH
    No response to any stimulus—no movement, withdrawal, grimace, or blinking
    No breathing efforts when taken off the ventilator (the apnea test)
    Pupils dilated and not responsive to light
    No gag reflex, no corneal reflex (blinking when the surface of the eye is touched), and absence of other specific reflexes”
    Notice that complete destruction of the brain or brain stem is not necessary for determining brain death
    ===
    So what about the body is destroyed then where is the consciousness?//
    You’re asking for a physical location of consciousness,another ontological error.
    ===
    ”You are the one that answers by talking about a completely irrelevant subject. I never said anything about law of identity, I just said boundaries are where we perceive differentiation. The boundary between life and death is no different to any other boundary. Let’s say you make a cake from scratch, where in the process of making your cake does the cake begin to exist? It doesn’t their is no absolute beginning or boundary of the cake coming into existence since it’s just a process and their is no magical moment when the cake suddenly springs into being out of nothing by magic. This is exactly the same in the case of death//

    You said before:This is the same with all things, so “life” and “death” is not a special case//
    The problem with using universal statements is that you’ll have to either have universal opinion on your side or meet your burden of proof,both is highly unlikely in your case.So do not use terms like “all”,”everything” and “none” because a student of logic recognize them instantly and you’ll be left unable to defend them.
    ===
    Mind can be reduced to physical States. Just like the body can generally be reduced to atoms, even though atom and body are different things with different identities.//
    You have two options from a Materialist’s perspective,either the mind and brain are identical,sharing all the same properties and characteristics or the mind is an illusion.Either way,the burden of proof is on you making the positive claim.
    ===
    Nothing is permanent, their is no reason to think consciousness is any different to all other things in the world. And all other things die, even the stars will die and even our own star the sun will eventually swell to a red giant and wipe out all life on this planet//
    Okay,so nothing is permanent now.Perhaps you’ll be consistent this time
    ===
    Yes the energy is not destroyed but the particular forms of matter/energy do die//

    This statement directly contradicts your universal statement above that nothing is permanent but now energy cannot be destroyed.When you make such blatant contradictions,I have to dismiss your claims.
    ===
    So death doesn’t effect the mind at all? It just carries on like nothing happened? How that is possible?//
    Death does affect the mind.After all,the mind was attached to the body
    ===
    Incorrect consciousness needs an object of consciousness, and without the body their is nothing for it to be aware of//
    Consciousness can be aware of anything with or without a body.Attaching itself to a body is for functional purposes.
    ===
    How does it exist if it doesn’t function? //
    If it does not have a body then it cannot function permanntly in the physical plane and is mostly restricted to non-physical dimensions.
    ===
    So what would you call a human then if not an existent thing or being?//
    No,I do not call humans existent things because a) that’s degrading to our species and b) your definition is flawed per all dictionaries(english,medical and legal)
    ===
    NDEs can be induced by ketamine read this //

    This is easily falsified.Ketamine was invented in the second half of the 2oth century and people have been reporting NDEs since the time of Plato.Clearly there’s a discrepancy,since the drug did not exist centuries ago.
    ==
    (note this is a site by believers in the afterlife not by atheists or skeptics)//
    Well,even believers can be wrong.No one said they are infallible.
    ==
    Ketamine can cause it//
    See my response above about ketamine being relatively new compared to the ancient reports of NDEs.
    ===
    If their is a soul we should be able to observe this soul interacting with our brain, should we not?//
    “Observe” in Atheist lexicon always refer to the 5 senses,since Atheist reject experience,logic and intuition as valid sources,we are once again left with the Atheist providing physical evidence against non-physical causation.
    ===
    I am not going into any argument about materialism I just want to know is the soul something we can scientifically test for? Can their ever be any empirical evidence for such a thing? If yes then why have we never observed this soul? And if not the existence of this soul can never be proven and we can never have any reason to think that it might exist.//

    Materialsm is the epistemological position of empiricism.All knowledge is acquired via the senses and proven via the inductive method of science.You accept the method but reject the label.

  215. Indian says:

    Mr. Sina
    Do you think our ancestors were Homo sapiens or Neanderthals or Apes?

  216. steve says:

    @Ron
    “But in the 95% of the body of knowledge which we don’t know and so there exists a possibility that God exists.” So? Their is also a possibility that their is an evil God or an indifferent God, or their could be trillions of gods both good and evil ones. Also using that argument Zeus, Allah, demons, witches and wizards, leprechauns, three headed dogs and all these other fantasy could beings also exist – since you don’t have all the information in the universe.

    “You cannot refute that God cannot exist at all in the 95% of unknown body of knowledge. because if you refute it then it means you claim to have all the knowledge of the Universe which is a lie of course” Can you be sure Harry Potter doesn’t exist? Can you be sure an evil creator “God” doesn’t exist? Can you be sure it won’t start raining pink elephants tomorrow? Obviously just like your God we say they don’t exist because these things are just imaginary.

    “So with the possibility of God existing in the 95% unknown body of knowledge makes a person logically an agnostic.” Are you agnostic about Santa Claus?

    “The corollary to that was the two options of which a loving God to go to in the afterlife is obviously a better choice.” It’s not a better choice since its just a fantasy.

    “There is a difference between all the three: atheist, agnostic and anti-theist.” Their isn’t any real difference between agnostic and atheist, since agnosticism just concerns itself with knowledge while atheist is the position that God doesn’t exist, while you could still admit to the “possibility” to their being a “God”. Anti Theist is opposition to the idea of God obviously an atheist doesn’t have to be anti theist. My own view on the question of “God” is described as Apatheism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism In other words existence of any Gods is meaningless for these reasons 1) Their no evidence of any God 2)Their could be many gods not just one 3) even if their are god or gods we don’t know anything about what their nature is – they could be evil or not be interested in us at all. 4) Even if their are Gods (possibly evil) this does not answer any fundamental question, their is no reason why we should be interested in this alien being (or beings).

  217. Ron says:

    @steve
    You are missing the point by a very long shot as you have not understood his argument.
    His logic says that in 5% of the body of knowledge (assuming it is 100%) we can claim that God does not exists as atheists claim. But in the 95% of the body of knowledge which we don’t know and so there exists a possibility that God exists.
    You cannot refute that God cannot exist at all in the 95% of unknown body of knowledge. because if you refute it then it means you claim to have all the knowledge of the Universe which is a lie of course.
    So with the possibility of God existing in the 95% unknown body of knowledge makes a person logically an agnostic.
    The corollary to that was the two options of which a loving God to go to in the afterlife is obviously a better choice.
    Hear and understand his logic again and you will find the logical argument at least in the first part sound and rational unless you are brainwashed anti-theist.
    There is a difference between all the three: atheist, agnostic and anti-theist.

  218. steve says:

    @Ron
    “check this man’s logic.
    You can’t logically deny it”
    His “logic” you can’t know all the information in the universe, therefore the Christian God exists. Their is only 2 possibilities you live and then die or you live forever with a loving God and even though their no evidence for such things and much suffering in the world which is incompatible with the existence of a loving God however since my ego wants to live forever and I want to believe my life is of cosmic importance the fantasy of a eternal afterlife with a loving God must exist.

  219. Ron says:

    @Steve , Phoenix, Ali Sina,
    check this man’s logic.
    You can’t logically deny it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJpEQEs-6bs
    Phoenix and Ali Sina are correct.

  220. Ron says:

    This is NDE of an atheist

  221. Ron says:

    This video is about a Buddhist monk who had a NDE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO4covXqbvM

    Watch it before you comment.

  222. steve says:

    “So now clinical death is reversible? How many times did I have to try and sink this into your head” I never said clinical death is not reversible, I said brain death is not reversible.

    “Occasionally brain death” No one has ever come back from complete brain death and I explained why.

    “Consciousness still needs a relatively operational body to function in.” So what about the body is destroyed then where is the consciousness?

    “Please,I’d love to see how you bs your way out of this one.” You are the one that answers by talking about a completely irrelevant subject. I never said anything about law of identity, I just said boundaries are where we perceive differentiation. The boundary between life and death is no different to any other boundary. Let’s say you make a cake from scratch, where in the process of making your cake does the cake begin to exist? It doesn’t their is no absolute beginning or boundary of the cake coming into existence since it’s just a process and their is no magical moment when the cake suddenly springs into being out of nothing by magic. This is exactly the same in the case of death.

    “If there is even one difference then mind cannot be reduced to physical states and Physicalism is defeated.” Mind can be reduced to physical States. Just like the body can generally be reduced to atoms, even though atom and body are different things with different identities.

    “Another universal statement that you cannot possibly prove.” Nothing is permanent, their is no reason to think consciousness is any different to all other things in the world. And all other things die, even the stars will die and even our own star the sun will eventually swell to a red giant and wipe out all life on this planet.

    “Didn’t you also say energy cannot be destroyed?” Yes the energy is not destroyed but the particular forms of matter/energy do die.

    “I said when it is embodied and is then human,it will eventually shed the shell known as the body which we call death.It is the shell/body that disintergrates not consciousness” So death doesn’t effect the mind at all? It just carries on like nothing happened? How that is possible?

    “Without the mind there cannot be awareness” Incorrect consciousness needs an object of consciousness, and without the body their is nothing for it to be aware of.

    “An embodied consciousness only needs the body to function in the material plane but does not need the body for its existence.” How does it exist if it doesn’t function?

    “My link is evidence for NDEs. NDEs demonstrate survival of consciousness” Your link doesn’t even say anything about survival of consciousness after brain death.

    “Humans are distinct from things.Just own up to your errors.” So what would you call a human then if not an existent thing or being?

    “NDEs and unlike hallucinations which usually involve random meaningless events,NDEs are specifically personal and meaningful to the experiencer.” NDEs can be induced by ketamine read this http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal12.html (note this is a site by believers in the afterlife not by atheists or skeptics).

    “Oh I agree that something must cause these experiences but the ad hoc explanations or science of the gap arguments made by Michael and Susan does not fit the descriptions.” Ketamine can cause it.

    “You mentioned “immaterial soul” and “scientific explanation” in the same breath.Science is the study of material causation.Why would I expect an immaterial soul to exhibit subatomic particle behavior?” If their is a soul we should be able to observe this soul interacting with our brain, should we not?

    “Your presupposition remains fallacious,and that is that material existence is the only existence.How do you know this,what can you prove empirically or even mathematically and logically for these unstated assumptions?” I am not going into any argument about materialism I just want to know is the soul something we can scientifically test for? Can their ever be any empirical evidence for such a thing? If yes then why have we never observed this soul? And if not the existence of this soul can never be proven and we can never have any reason to think that it might exist.

  223. Phoenix says:

    It is known to cause out of body experiences and visions so it’s not bullshit//

    This from a respectable medical site:
    http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/anoxia/anoxia.htm
    “During recovery, psychological and neurological abnormalities such as amnesia, personality regression, hallucinations,memory loss, and muscle spasms and twitches may appear, persist, and then resolve.”

    None of the symptoms mentioned above match the NDE accounts.There is no memory loss,the personality is usually more matured after NDEs and unlike hallucinations which usually involve random meaningless events,NDEs are specifically personal and meaningful to the experiencer.
    ===
    stimulation of the temporal lobe explains the description of NDEs something has to cause the stimulation of the temporal lobe it whether it’s endorphins or something else//
    Oh I agree that something must cause these experiences but the ad hoc explanations or science of the gap arguments made by Michael and Susan does not fit the descriptions.
    ===
    quote from the above link “The temporal lobe is likely to be crucial in NDEs, since it is sensitive to anoxia and its stimulation is known to induce hallucinations, memory flashbacks, body distortions, and out-of-body experiences” //

    Your link quotes two biased Atheists whose data do not match that of objective medical sites.Rather cite medical sites than your fellow closed minded skeptics and we can look at the data together.
    ===
    If I should question her explanation then what about the afterlife and the workings of the immaterial soul to explain NDE is that a scientific explanation?No it’s not.//

    You mentioned “immaterial soul” and “scientific explanation” in the same breath.Science is the study of material causation.Why would I expect an immaterial soul to exhibit subatomic particle behavior?
    Your presupposition remains fallacious,and that is that material existence is the only existence.How do you know this,what can you prove empirically or even mathematically and logically for these unstated assumptions?

  224. Phoenix says:

    Because clinical death is reversible, obviously if the person is not revived very quickly then the brain cells start to die and permanent brain damage and eventually death of the brain will occur//

    So now clinical death is reversible? How many times did I have to try and sink this into your head?
    ===
    So what are you arguing for then since you accept no one survives biological death?//

    Patients who have reportedly experienced Near Deaths usually matched the criteria for clinical death/cardiological death and occasionaly brain death.Nowhere did I mention someone whose skull were crushed and had his limbs and organs torn to pieces miraculously had them reattached.Consciousness still needs a relatively operational body to function in.
    ===
    Yes it does apply to all things, tell me where the absolute boundary for anything is? You won’t find it, boundaries are simple where we perceive differentiation//

    You hate logic don’t you? Of course you do,you’re an Atheist.
    The principle of identity is one of the 3 laws of logic,and it states the banal tautology of P = P. Pcannot be anything else but P.In other words,P has specific properties that defines it.P is equal to Q only if P shares all the same properties as Q and vice versa.Even one characteristic contained in Q that does not exist in P renders them not equivalent.Therefore P and Q are well defined objects.Please,I’d love to see how you bs your way out of this one.
    ===
    Furthermore I never claimed brain and mind are the same thing with the same identity.//

    Please,for the love of life,pick up a logic text book at least once in your life.Just read the basics.
    For the mind and brain to be equal (according to Materialm/Physicalism) they must share all the same properties (according to Leibniz’s Law.If there is even one difference then mind cannot be reduced to physical states and Physicalism is defeated.
    ===
    Everything dies//

    Another universal statement that you cannot possibly prove.Didn’t you also say energy cannot be destroyed?
    ===
    You just said consciousness does not die now you say it undergoes the process of death//

    I said when it is embodied and is then human,it will eventually shed the shell known as the body which we call death.It is the shell/body that disintergrates not consciousness.
    ===
    You are the one that believes the mind is a non physical entity and is completely separate and independent of the body, so you tell me how such a thing could be aware of the body?//

    Without the mind there cannot be awareness.And I did not say they are completely separate.An embodied consciousness only needs the body to function in the material plane but does not need the body for its existence.
    ===
    Your link doesn’t say anything about the mind being separate or it surviving physical death//

    My link is evidence for NDEs. NDEs demonstrate survival of consciousness.
    ===
    You are saying humans don’t exist?//

    You said humans are things.I gave you a dictionary dfinition which contradicts your assertion.Humans are distinct from things.Just own up to your errors.

    “an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being”.
    ===

  225. steve says:

    @Phoenix
    “Tell me,how does death follow clinical death?I said once the patient is declared clinically dead…,your response is yes,then death will occur” Because clinical death is reversible, obviously if the person is not revived very quickly then the brain cells start to die and permanent brain damage and eventually death of the brain will occur.

    “I made no mention of patients surviving complete bodily destruction (biological death).” So what are you arguing for then since you accept no one survives biological death?

    “Egregiously false,this does not apply to all things.There are clearly well defined words,terms,objects and formulas that leave no room for ambiguity” Yes it does apply to all things, tell me where the absolute boundary for anything is? You won’t find it, boundaries are simple where we perceive differentiation.

    “Are the properties of mind and brain the same?” Are the properties of Ice and water the same? Furthermore I never claimed brain and mind are the same thing with the same identity.

    “Only consciousness does not die.” Everything dies.

    “Consciousness is not human” So how can “consciousness” be “you” then since your human?

    “It must be embodied in order to experience itself as human then undergo the processes of birth and death” You just said consciousness does not die now you say it undergoes the process of death.

    Which is a fantasy because if mind were separate from the body it could never be aware of it//
    “Your proof for that is what?” You are the one that believes the mind is a non physical entity and is completely separate and independent of the body, so you tell me how such a thing could be aware of the body?

    “How can they not be evidence if they are peer reviewed data of positive results?” Your link doesn’t say anything about the mind being separate or it surviving physical death.

    “Your persistent denials only prove you are dogmatically and not rationally attached to your position.” My denial of what? You haven’t presented any evidence that consciousness survives the death of the brain, so I haven’t had anything to deny.

    “This is both funny and absurd.Humans are by definition NOT things” You are saying humans don’t exist?
    “No amount of evidence can convince a pathological skeptic” You don’t have any evidence at all, Christians on YouTube claiming they “died” and they met demons and angels and other fantasy beings is not evidence that consciousness survives death of the brain.
    “Tell me why your statement is not a contradiction in terms? A material object is inanimate and yet it can also be alive,according to you.” Life is just a particular structure of matter, “life” is not a magical property.

    Well here is a list of proposed explanations of NDE http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Chapters/ShermerNDE.htm
    Bullsh!t.Hypoxia causes memory loss,confusion and poor vision” It is known to cause out of body experiences and visions so it’s not bullshit.
    “Endorphins do not cause epileptic seizures.They actually lower the intensity of the seizures” stimulation of the temporal lobe explains the description of NDEs something has to cause the stimulation of the temporal lobe it whether it’s endorphins or something else.
    quote from the above link “The temporal lobe is likely to be crucial in NDEs, since it is sensitive to anoxia and its stimulation is known to induce hallucinations, memory flashbacks, body distortions, and out-of-body experiences”

    “Yes she did say that but tell me why Atheists never ever question or are skeptical of fellow Atheist claims?” If I should question her explanation then what about the afterlife and the workings of the immaterial soul to explain NDE is that a scientific explanation?No it’s not.

  226. Phoenix says:

    She says they are seizures or random activation in the temporal lobe and limbic system caused by the endorphins.//

    Yes she did say that but tell me why Atheists never ever question or are skeptical of fellow Atheist claims?

    Endorphins do not cause epileptic seizures.They actually lower the intensity of the seizures

  227. Phoenix says:

    Steve

    This may be my last response to you for now.I know Atheists like yourself believe they win debates if they have the last say,despite their lack of logic and evidence contained in their arguments

    I said:This is usually within a few minutes when clinical death is pronounced”

    You responded:Yes and after that time permanent brain damage and then death will occur and then the person cannot regain consciousness//

    Tell me,how does death follow clinical death?I said once the patient is declared clinically dead…,your response is yes,then death will occur.
    ====
    If you smash a tea cup into a billion pieces, you won’t be able to put it back together again for all intents and purposes//

    False analogy fallacy and straw man.I made no mention of patients surviving complete bodily destruction (biological death).
    ===
    This is the same with all things, so “life” and “death” is not a special case//

    Egregiously false,this does not apply to all things.There are clearly well defined words,terms,objects and formulas that leave no room for ambiguity.
    ===
    Compare the brain and mind to ice and water, both ice and water are different things with different properties yet ice is nothing but frozen water//

    Your analogies won’t work.Deal with the actual issue at,since all analogies are ultimately false.Are the properties of mind and brain the same?
    ===
    It does because “mortal” means you are going to die and cease to exist//

    There is no dispute that men die.Only consciousness does not die.Consciousness is not human.It must be embodied in order to experience itself as human then undergo the processes of birth and death.
    ===
    1.Which is a fantasy because if mind were separate from the body it could never be aware of it//

    Your proof for that is what?

    2.No they don’t//

    How can they not be evidence if they are peer reviewed data of positive results?

    3.Their are no such experiences.//

    Your persistent denials only prove you are dogmatically and not rationally attached to your position.

    4,Their is no evidence consciousness survives physical death//

    Check link:
    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2801%2907100-8/fulltext?version=printerFriendly
    ====
    Prove that otherwise this is just a fantasy//

    This is both funny and absurd.Humans are by definition NOT things.

    “an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being”
    ===
    No NDE case study shows mind is independent of body or that it survives physical death//

    No amount of evidence can convince a pathological skeptic.
    ===
    Living things are material objects, life is biological processes when those processes stop “life” ceases to exist//

    Tell me why your statement is not a contradiction in terms? A material object is inanimate and yet it can also be alive,according to you.
    ===
    Re Susan Blackmore. See this study which shows a link between oxygen deprivation and high levels of carbon monoxide in their blood//

    Bullsh!t.Hypoxia causes memory loss,confusion and poor vision.Contrasted with NDE patients who consistently report vivid memories, clarity of consciousness and an unmistakable sense of purpose in life.The two hypotheses contradict each other.

  228. steve says:

    @Faithfreedom 2014
    “I can’t judge him because I’m not familiar with any of Sai Babas work” Thousands of people say he performed miracles – i.e anecdotal personal testimonies – this is the same standard of proof” that you base your belief in mind- body duality and the afterlife on.

    “This self proclaimed god is rotting in hell” Their is no such thing as hell – except the hell that be created in the here and now. Annihilation/extinction is what happens to everything else. One day even the stars will go out yet your consciousness is going to exist “forever”?

  229. steve says:

    Another study on rats during cardiac arrest shows an increase in brain activity “the researchers found that “the brain is much more active during the dying process than in the waking state… In the 30-second period after the animal’s hearts stopped beating, the researchers observed an immediate release of more than a dozen neurochemicals, while high-frequency brainwaves called gamma oscillations increased” http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/study-supports-role-of-oxygen-deprivation-in-near-death-experiences.htm

    “Are they drugs,endorphins,temporal lobe seizures?” She says they are seizures or random activation in the temporal lobe and limbic system caused by the endorphins.

  230. steve says:

    “This is usually within a few minutes when clinical death is pronounced” Yes and after that time permanent brain damage and then death will occur and then the person cannot regain consciousness.

    “Further,scientists are cautious to use the term “irreversible” because it implies an absolute state that would make science itself static and no further knowledge can be acquired” If you smash a tea cup into a billion pieces, you won’t be able to put it back together again for all intents and purposes.

    “However, determining when death has occurred requires drawing precise conceptual boundaries between life and death.This is problematic, however, because there is little consensus over how to define life” This is the same with all things, so “life” and “death” is not a special case.

    “From a Dualist perspective,no.Consciousness is not physical because it does not share the same properties of the brain” Compare the brain and mind to ice and water, both ice and water are different things with different properties yet ice is nothing but frozen water.

    “This does not disprove my position because the mortality of humans is accepted by both theists and materialists” It does because “mortal” means you are going to die and cease to exist.

    “(P1) The hypotheses for the afterlife is based upon a belief of the duality between mind and body” Which is a fantasy because if mind were separate from the body it could never be aware of it.

    “(P3) Peer reviewed data of NDE’s demonstrate the ontological independence of the mind/body relationship” No they don’t.

    “(P2) Any experiences that demonstrate mind/body existential independence” Their are no such experiences.

    “(C) Therefore, the peer reviewed data of NDE’s (per P1 and P3) are evidence of an afterlife (Per P2” Their is no evidence consciousness survives physical death.

    “Yes,all things do die but humans are more than mere things/objects” Prove that otherwise this is just a fantasy.

    “Only the physical aspects of man dies.” Humans are physical beings.

    “the NDE case studies” No NDE case study shows mind is independent of body or that it survives physical death.

    “2.an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being” Living things are material objects, life is biological processes when those processes stop “life” ceases to exist.

    Re Susan Blackmore. See this study which shows a link between oxygen deprivation and high levels of carbon monoxide in their blood. http://www.livescience.com/11010-death-experiences-linked-oxygen-deprivation.html

  231. steve says:

    “This is usually within a few minutes when clinical death is pronounced” Yes and after that time permanent brain damage and then death will occur and the person cannot regain consciousness.

    “Further,scientists are cautious to use the term “irreversible” because it implies an absolute state that would make science itself static and no further knowledge can be acquired” If you smash a tea cup into a billion pieces, you won’t be able to put it back together again for all intents and purposes.

    “However, determining when death has occurred requires drawing precise conceptual boundaries between life and death.This is problematic, however, because there is little consensus over how to define life” This is the same with all things, so “life” and “death” is not a special case.

    “From a Dualist perspective,no.Consciousness is not physical because it does not share the same properties of the brain” Compare the brain and mind to ice and water, both ice and water are different things with different properties yet ice is nothing but frozen water.

    “This does not disprove my position because the mortality of humans is accepted by both theists and materialists” It does because “mortal” means you are going to die and cease to exist.

    “(P1) The hypotheses for the afterlife is based upon a belief of the duality between mind and body” Which is a fantasy because if mind were separate from the body it could never be aware of it.

    “(P3) Peer reviewed data of NDE’s demonstrate the ontological independence of the mind/body relationship” No they don’t.

    “(P2) Any experiences that demonstrate mind/body existential independence” Their are no such experiences.

    “(C) Therefore, the peer reviewed data of NDE’s (per P1 and P3) are evidence of an afterlife (Per P2” Their is no evidence consciousness survives physical death.

    “Yes,all things do die but humans are more than mere things/objects” Prove that otherwise this is just a fantasy.

    “Only the physical aspects of man dies.” Humans are physical beings.

    “the NDE case studies” No NDE case study shows mind is independent of body or that it survives physical death.

    “2.an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being” Living things are material objects, life is biological processes when those processes stop “life” ceases to exist.

    Re Susan Blackmore. See this study which shows a link between oxygen deprivation and high levels of carbon monoxide in their blood. http://www.livescience.com/11010-death-experiences-linked-oxygen-deprivation.html
    Another study on rats during cardiac arrest shows an increase in brain activity “the researchers found that “the brain is much more active during the dying process than in the waking state… In the 30-second period after the animal’s hearts stopped beating, the researchers observed an immediate release of more than a dozen neurochemicals, while high-frequency brainwaves called gamma oscillations increased” http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/study-supports-role-of-oxygen-deprivation-in-near-death-experiences.htm

    “Are they drugs,endorphins,temporal lobe seizures?” She says they are seizures or random activation in the temporal lobe and limbic system.

  232. Phoenix says:

    She is not giving proof against NDEs she accepts they are a real phenomenon instead she gives an alternative explanation to the “afterlife hypothesis”//
    Her alternative explanations are merely sophistical ad hoc assumptions that does not even account accurately for all the data.
    ===
    What she said was that endorphins which are natural opiates of the brain are released under stress and this is responsible for the feelings of peace and joy.//

    And she also admits she does not know “how far endorphins are implicated in the NDE”.
    ===
    What did she lie about?//

    She also falsely attributes hallucinations to NDEs but cannot accuratley name the source of the hallucinations.Are they drugs,endorphins,temporal lobe seizures? She plays a guessing game but quickly realizes her explanations does not match the actual criteria.

  233. Phoenix says:

    This is nonsense some things cease to function and it is impossible to reverse it//

    “Some” being the operative word.Moreover,the NDE studies report that consciousness is able to return to the body provided the damage done is not irreparable.This is usually within a few minutes when clinical death is pronounced.
    Further,scientists are cautious to use the term “irreversible” because it implies an absolute state that would make science itself static and no further knowledge can be acquired.
    ===
    If that were true then we wouldn’t have the word life//

    The writer is obviously refering to medical definitions of life that are highly controversial.
    From Wiki since medical definitions are hard to find
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life
    “However, determining when death has occurred requires drawing precise conceptual boundaries between life and death.This is problematic, however, because there is little consensus over how to define life”
    ===
    Death” actually is and where to draw the line between life and death is a philosophical question not a scientific one. This is not same as claiming that after it has been determined that a person is brain dead consciousness continues to exist//

    According to Materialists,yes,consciousness is reducible to the physical,so it must be accounted for scientifically,even though the jury is still out on that one.
    From a Dualist perspective,no.Consciousness is not physical because it does not share the same properties of the brain.Therefore the nature of consciousness falls outside of scientific enquiry and into philosophical discourse.
    ===
    All men are mortal. Socrates is a man. Therefore Socrates is mortal//

    Straw man.This does not disprove my position because the mortality of humans is accepted by both theists and materialists.
    ===
    You have presented no logical argument yet for the afterlife//

    (P1) The hypotheses for the afterlife is based upon a belief of the duality between mind and body

    (P2) Any experiences that demonstrate mind/body existential independence, is supporting evidence of, any given theory that depends upon body-independent mind or consciousness.

    (P3) Peer reviewed data of NDE’s demonstrate the ontological independence of the mind/body relationship

    (C) Therefore, the peer reviewed data of NDE’s (per P1 and P3) are evidence of an afterlife (Per P2).

    That’s simple deduction
    ===
    All things die, we are not exceptions. Belief in a continuation of consciousness is just a speculation, their no evidence for it nor is their any reason to think it even may survive physical death. Therefore the afterlife is a fantasy.//

    Yes,all things do die but humans are more than mere things/objects.Only the physical aspects of man dies.So your first premise fails prima facie and your second premise ignores the NDE case studies.Your argument is therefore unsound given your false premisses.But nonetheless good try.

    Definition of things
    2.an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being

  234. steve says:

    “Irreversible” is not a very scientific term” This is nonsense some things cease to function and it is impossible to reverse it.

    “but then we have to define “life” and that’s almost impossible.” If that were true then we wouldn’t have the word life.

    “Does that happen when the heart goes? The lungs? The lungs and heart together? The brain? That’s the debate” Death is a process not a event, where we draw the line between “living” and “dead” is determined by philosophy (which is what tells us what death is).

    “Read the whole article,even a physicist concedes such claims are mainly philosophical.” The claim that consciousness continues after the brain physically dies is an empirical claim is not a metaphysical claim. This physicist says what “Death” actually is and where to draw the line between life and death is a philosophical question not a scientific one. This is not same as claiming that after it has been determined that a person is brain dead consciousness continues to exist.

    “First, let me know if I give you a sound deductive syllogism of NDEs will it suffice as evidence in your Materialist ideology or will you continue to raise the bar for physical proof?” How can you give a logical argument for a scientific clam?

    “Secondly,you must present your own logical proof in favor of your position” Well actually their is a very famous one of these. All men are mortal. Socrates is a man. Therefore Socrates is mortal.

    “You are probably not even aware that the premises does not need to be absolutely proven in order for the argument to be sound,as long as the premises are plausibly more true than its negation” You have presented no logical argument yet for the afterlife.

    “.So go ahead and make your logical case for your position,since you declare yourself to be rational.” All things die, we are not exceptions. Belief in a continuation of consciousness is just a speculation, their no evidence for it nor is their any reason to think it even may survive physical death. Therefore the afterlife is a fantasy.

    “What is this then?Deism” Pantheism.

    “Secondly,she even admits her work is not proof against NDes but mere speculation.” She is not giving proof against NDEs she accepts they are a real phenomenon instead she gives an alternative explanation to the “afterlife hypothesis”.

    “If she can lie about such an important aspect of NDEs” What she said was that endorphins which are natural opiates of the brain are released under stress and this is responsible for the feelings of peace and joy.

    “why should I even consider anything else she says?” What did she lie about?

  235. Phoenix says:

    I submit this brilliant article that explains quite well from a scientist/physicist’s perspective,the nature of death.Here’s some excerpts that will answer your objections quite well without me having to engage in an endless and repetitive discussion.

    http://io9.com/5915339/the-meaning-of-death-how-do-we-know-someone-is-no-longer-alive

    “I’ve been a science writer since 1973, covering a lot of particle physics, and I’ve discovered that compared to, say, physics, “medical science” is an oxymoron. Doctors are not well schooled in scientific principles. They are healers, not scientists, and they don’t understand basic concepts such as falsification in science”

    [The problem with the definition of death]
    “Definitions of death have not changed a great deal, but that doesn’t mean much. Often we’ll say “death is the absence of life,” but then we have to define “life” and that’s almost impossible. All we can really do is set criteria for who’s dead, and that is tough enough, and we have no real definitive set of standards”

    [Irreversible death?]

    “Irreversible” is not a very scientific term. Is the solar system “irreversible?” How about the universe as a whole? No, even the proton may eventually decay. Nothing is forever.

    What science looks for is stable systems. We can say the solar system or the hydrogen atom is stable. Death comes, we might say, when the stability of the human body breaks down, and the system no longer works as a whole. Does that happen when the heart goes? The lungs? The lungs and heart together? The brain? That’s the debate. We are acquiring more and more evidence that the body can go on in a somewhat stable system long after the brain has called it quits. For example, brain-dead pregnant mothers can continue to gestate and give birth to their babies long after being declared brain dead. In one case, a mother went 107 days after “death,” and then delivered a healthy newborn”
    ===
    The claim consciousness survives the death of the brain is a scientific claim not a metaphysical claim//

    Read the whole article,even a physicist concedes such claims are mainly philosophical.
    ===
    Where is your mathematical or syllogistic evidence for the afterlife then eh?//

    First, let me know if I give you a sound deductive syllogism of NDEs will it suffice as evidence in your Materialist ideology or will you continue to raise the bar for physical proof?
    Secondly,you must present your own logical proof in favor of your position.And don’t give me the standard Atheist dodge about not being able to prove a negative.Agreed?
    ===
    I asked for logical proof of the afterlife as well, instead of waffling about “materialist dogma” just present your logical proof of the afterlife.//

    As far as I’m concerned I already gave evidence in the form of peer reviewed data.I don’t think you even fully comprehend what logical proof is.You are probably not even aware that the premises does not need to be absolutely proven in order for the argument to be sound,as long as the premises are plausibly more true than its negation then it will also suffice as a sound argument.Also,a syllogism need not be complicated,it can be as simple as neccessary,with merely 2 premises.But don’t be shy either,the burden of proof and rebuttal share the same standard for evidence.So go ahead and make your logical case for your position,since you declare yourself to be rational.
    ===
    I am saying God IS reality. God unlike material things never changes, is never born and never dies. I don’t consider consciousness/mind to be fundamental, since consciousness is only a part of God//

    What is this then?Deism?
    ===
    The joy and peace are consistent because of the natural opiates [endorphins] released under stress. The tunnel, light and noises are consistent because they depend on the structure of the brain’s cortex and what happens to it when it is deprived of oxygen or is affected by disinhibition and random activity. The OBE is consistent because it is the brain’s way of dealing with a breakdown in the body image and model of reality. The life review is consistent because the endorphins cause random activation and seizures in the temporal lobe and limbic system where memories are organized. The same effect leads to the breakdown of time and its relationship to self. And it is this dissolution of self that accounts for the mystical experiences and aftereffects//

    Firstly,Blackmore is not a scientist and definitely not a Neurobiologist,so why even quote her.Secondly,she even admits her work is not proof against NDes but mere speculation.Lastly,I don’t even need to rebut her point by point,one of her grave mistakes is to assume that endorphins can account for the patients experiences but endorphins are not even hallucinogenic.If she can lie about such an important aspect of NDEs why should I even consider anything else she says?

  236. faithfreedom2014 says:

    “In that case you should accept that Sai baba performed miracles//

    I can’t judge him because I’m not familiar with any of Sai Babas work.Do you have any case studies published in peer reviewed journals that I can look at?”

    Sathya Sai Baba was a charlatan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNMxQtwkIuk

    There are also accusations of him sexually molesting young boys of his followers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPiI4o574OY

    This self proclaimed god is rotting in hell

  237. steve says:

    “The definition of death is only a guideline,it’s not an enforceable law.” It’s not a “guideline” if a person fits into the definition of death, then they are definitely dead.

    “all the patients in the study were reported to be clinically dead.” Clinical death is not the same as brain death, just because the heart stops beating doesn’t mean their is no oxygen in the brain and that the brain cannot function.

    “Except that most of the NDE patients report experiences with greater clarity,a strong sense of purpose,vivid memories,a strong sense of identity,etc” Did you have a look at the link? Blackmore answers this I will quote “The joy and peace are consistent because of the natural opiates [endorphins] released under stress. The tunnel, light and noises are consistent because they depend on the structure of the brain’s cortex and what happens to it when it is deprived of oxygen or is affected by disinhibition and random activity. The OBE is consistent because it is the brain’s way of dealing with a breakdown in the body image and model of reality. The life review is consistent because the endorphins cause random activation and seizures in the temporal lobe and limbic system where memories are organized. The same effect leads to the breakdown of time and its relationship to self. And it is this dissolution of self that accounts for the mystical experiences and aftereffects.
    No afterlife hypothesis is required to account for the consistency of NDE across times, peoples and cultures. Indeed, the dying brain hypothesis accounts for it better.”

    “that eventually lead to altruistic lives when they return to their bodies” She answers too “The afterlife hypothesis attributes this to NDErs having a spiritual existence in another world. In fact this does not really explain it at all. There is no obvious reason why an afterlife should be a better one nor why contact with it should make people who return nicer. That is simply assumed.

    By contrast, the dying brain hypothesis is compatible with two reasons for transformation. One is simply that being made to think about death can affect a person’s priorities deeply, whether it is their death or another’s and whether they have an NDE or not. This alone can make them less selfish and more concerned for others. The other is that coming close to death can provoke the insight that the self was only a mental construction; that all the struggles, attachment and suffering of life depend on that artificial construction and that it can be let go. There never was any solid self and there is no one to die.With this insight fear is left behind and life can be lived more directly and fully. The dying brain hypothesis accounts better for the mystical insight of the NDE and the changes it can bring about.”

    “You seem surprised.Science is limited to the study of material causation.If you think science is the only valid approach to epistemology then you need to provide scientific evidence for such a claim.” The claim consciousness survives the death of the brain is a scientific claim not a metaphysical claim.

    “Who are you kidding here? No amount of mathematical or syllogistic evidence can satisfy a believer in Materialist dogma.” Where is your mathematical or syllogistic evidence for the afterlife then eh?

    “The requirement as always,will eventually regress into a demand for physical evidence of a non-material entity.A classic ontological error.” I asked for logical proof of the afterlife as well, instead of waffling about “materialist dogma” just present your logical proof of the afterlife.

    “I’m confused.Are you asserting Idealism now” I am saying God IS reality. God unlike material things never changes, is never born and never dies. I don’t consider consciousness/mind to be fundamental, since consciousness is only a part of God.

  238. Phoenix says:

    And that’s exactly what the label/definition “death” is. When a person fits into the definition dead they are definitely dead//

    The definition of death is only a guideline,it’s not an enforceable law.
    ===
    So long as their is oxygen in the brain the physical brain can be conscious, and their can be consciousness. If oxygen is ever completely depleted from the brain then the brain dies. And once it dies, it can’t be brought back to life again. The damage is permanent.Nobody has come back from complete brain death precisely because the brain no longer functions//

    Yes,anoxia can cause irreversible damage but only if CPR is not started within about 5-10 minutes of cardiac arrest.However,prior to CPR all the patients in the study were reported to be clinically dead.
    ===
    Well there’s no peer reviewed data on MR or Mrs Baba then I have nothing to say on that matter.
    ===
    Her view is that when the brain is dying our construct of self and reality goes haywire.//

    Except that most of the NDE patients report experiences with greater clarity,a strong sense of purpose,vivid memories,a strong sense of identity,etc that eventually lead to altruistic lives when they return to their bodies.The “haywire” excuse contradicts most reported experiences.
    ===
    So you admit it’s not scientific?//

    You seem surprised.Science is limited to the study of material causation.If you think science is the only valid approach to epistemology then you need to provide scientific evidence for such a claim.
    ===
    The only claims which are non-material are metaphysical claims, metaphysical claims require logical proof. So where is your logical proof of the afterlife?//

    Who are you kidding here? No amount of mathematical or syllogistic evidence can satisfy a believer in Materialist dogma.The requirement as always,will eventually regress into a demand for physical evidence of a non-material entity.A classic ontological error.
    ===
    My view is God alone is real all else is illusory what you call the material world is an illusion//

    I’m confused.Are you asserting Idealism now?

  239. steve says:

    Ali Sina
    “What we can verify is when they accurately report seeing and hearing things that happened in other rooms” It’s never been verified.

    “It can see, hear and fly when the body is dead” As explained before if their body was dead they wouldn’t be coming back to tell you.

    “This can only mean one thing, that our body is only a vehicle we need to interact with the physical world.” How does the soul interact with the physical world then (during the near death experience)? Especially since it’s not supposed to be physical?

    “even the future” Nobody knows the future, their is no such thing as omniscient.

    “You think just by writing something you are debating?” If what I wrote was not logical then you would be able to respond logically to it. You just repeated your nonsense belief and think it’s a logical response. Any rational person can see who is logical and who is not.

    Phoenix
    “Definitions are descriptions of events,they are not prescriptions.” And that’s exactly what the label/definition “death” is. When a person fits into the definition dead they are definitely dead.

    “It can’t be “mere” speculation if there are studies confirming the reality of NDEs” Why do you think they are called near death? So long as their is oxygen in the brain the physical brain can be conscious, and their can be consciousness. If oxygen is ever completely depleted from the brain then the brain dies. And once it dies, it can’t be brought back to life again. The damage is permanent.Nobody has come back from complete brain death precisely because the brain no longer functions.

    “I can’t judge him because I’m not familiar with any of Sai Babas work.Do you have any case studies published in peer reviewed journals that I can look at” This man was a cult leader and pedophile, there is a video you can see where he has a necklace out of sight and then puts it in his sleeve, he then waves his hands and makes it appear to the audience as if he materialised the necklace out of thin air. Thousands of people claim this charlatan performed miracles, this should tell you something about how intelligent and sincere people can make the most stupid and ridiculous claims based on faith.

    “What do you think NDEs demonstrate if not the mind-body existential independence?” See this article by near death researcher Susan Blackmore http://alexpetrov.com/memes/hum/nde-args.html Her view is that when the brain is dying our construct of self and reality goes haywire.

    “I did not say the afterlife is scientifically verifiable” So you admit it’s not scientific?

    “Like I said before,non-material claims can be tested using Reductio ad Absurdum.It is the logical equivalence of falsifiable.” The only claims which are non-material are metaphysical claims, metaphysical claims require logical proof. So where is your logical proof of the afterlife?

    “What evidence do you have that there is nothing beyond the material universe without using circular logic?” My view is God alone is real all else is illusory what you call the material world is an illusion.

  240. Phoenix says:

    @Pick

    On the contrary,it is Atheists who are losing.Your inability to refute simple claims using logic and/or evidence exposes Atheism as impotent.Instead of refuting the evidence given to Atheists,they belittle the evidence without presenting counter evidence.
    For a while Atheists have managed to fool the population with their bravado.Atheists were so sure they had the monopoly on logic and science that they became arrogant and intolerant,Do you know the reason why Atheists are so angry? Their anger is simply arrogance at a position they are so sure they are undefeated at.But fortunately with a little bit of knowledge in the discipline of logic,one can kick that stool from under them and expose their intellectual as well as moral void.

  241. Phoenix says:

    When a person is dead they are indeed absolutely dead – that is they fit the definition of dead. A dead person – by definition – cannot come back from death.//

    Definitions are descriptions of events,they are not prescriptions.In other words,they do not tell us what ought or should be happening.Using your logic,we can equally assert that the universe originated from a First Cause,simply because that is what a First Cause is by definition.
    ===
    Any belief that consciousness survives the death of the brain is mere speculation – since anyone who is alive has never died and no soul of a dead person has ever come back to confirm consciousness continues//

    It can’t be “mere” speculation if there are studies confirming the reality of NDEs.At some point you will have to accept the existing peer reviewed data.
    ===
    In that case you should accept that Sai baba performed miracles//

    I can’t judge him because I’m not familiar with any of Sai Babas work.Do you have any case studies published in peer reviewed journals that I can look at?
    ===
    Link doesn’t say anything about the afterlife//

    What do you think NDEs demonstrate if not the mind-body existential independence?
    ===
    The afterlife “theory” is not falsifiable that’s why it’s not scientific//

    I did not say the afterlife is scientifically verifiable.This is a straw man.The falsifiability requirement are for material phenomenon only.Like I said before,non-material claims can be tested using Reductio ad Absurdum.It is the logical equivalence of falsifiable.
    ===
    The claim that consciousness survives the death of the brain and body is an empirical claim not a philosophical/logical claim. And their obviously isn’t any logical proof of the afterlife//

    Where has a Dualist ever claimed consciousness is physical.You know very well the contention is that the mind is non-physical and thus falls outside empirical analysis.
    Your presupposition is that the material is all that exists.What evidence do you have that there is nothing beyond the material universe without using circular logic?

  242. Ali Sina says:

    “Does the soul have eyes and ears that fly round the hospital?”

    Yes, the NDErs claim they hover over their body, see doctors working on them, sometimes they go through the ceiling, hover over the hospital, see everything and can even know what each person is thinking and going through. They know all their hopes, fears, worries and concerns as if all people are extensions of them.

    What we can verify is when they accurately report seeing and hearing things that happened in other rooms. You cannot explain these except through accepting that the consciousness is independent from the body. It can see, hear and fly when the body is dead. This can only mean one thing, that our body is only a vehicle we need to interact with the physical world. All our faculties remain intact, when we leave the body.
    Sometimes they go to another time. One patient went out of his body during the operation. He watched the doctors and got bored. He went to explore the hospital where he came across a window at the end of the corridor from where he watched the garden and some kids playing. Upon his awakening he told about his experience to the nurse. She asked whether he had been in that hospital before. He said this was the first time. The nurse told him that the window at the end of the corridor had been walled for years.
    Sometimes people experience the present, but sometimes they experience the past or even the future. Another patient said when he stepped out of the room he found the hospital was abandoned. It was locked up and no longer operational with broken windows and dust everywhere.

    “Millions of people don’t testify to one case. Millions say have they such experience, not millions testifying to one case”

    I don’t want to be rued but why don’t you invite someone a bit more logical than yourself to debate me. It is not fun debating with someone who writes without thinking. You think just by writing something you are debating?

    Good bye

  243. Ali Sina says:

    “the links and videos are not convincing at all”

    In that case explain them rationally.

    I say Islam is not convincing. If all I could say against Islam was this would anyone take me seriously? It would be foolish to expect impressing others only by pooh-poohing their argument. I explain in details why Islam is not convincing. I back my claim wit evidence and proof. Can you do the same?

    If you could explain them you would have done that instead of babbling nonsense. You should know that ad hominem is not a convincing argument. In fact is the the argument of the loser.

  244. Pick says:

    Ali Sina, the links and videos are not convincing at all. I guess I need to have faith to believe. If I believe in NDE… then why not believe in other religions as well.

    Sina, your delusion is the same as the Muslim’s. And that is why it is hard for many, many Muslims to even consider that their prophet is phony…

    So, as long as you have a good heart then go ahead and find all the reasons for the reality of NDE. And as long as you do not make rules and laws of this belief onto other population then be my guest.

    But keep in mind that you are loosing your credibility about all what you have written about Islam in this website. That is why I suggest to keep the NDE articles in your personal website. But hey, you own this one too so who am I to complain.

  245. steve says:

    Ali sina
    “Many of these videos do not fall into “personal testimony” category and need to be explained” All of them fall into that category.

    “If a person can see what happens in other rooms, and his or her claim is confirmed by others that needs to be explained” I have seen any convincing evidence that people have such an ability, how if the soul is not physical can it perceive the physical world and process that information? Does the soul have eyes and ears that fly round the hospital? furthermore even if such abilities exist these are not evidence of an afterlife or God. Many psychics claim to have similar abilities (remote viewing, telepathy etc).

    “But when we have millions of people from all ages, races and beliefs saying the same thing, even at the risk of being ridiculed it would be foolish to dismiss the phenomenon.” Millions of people don’t testify to one case. Millions say have they such experience, not millions testifying to one case.

    “I am yet to hear that simple and rational explanation” I already gave a few I will list them again they made the story up, details were added in after the experience or the story was exaggerated. Things like amnesia awareness are also a possibility. Why these explanations are not possible? Unless you can prove their not, then you have nothing.

    “What I heard so far are simplistic and irrational explanation that make less sense than those given by Muslims in defense of their faith” Explain why then.

    “We keep saying to Muslims that denial is not proof and I now have to repeat the same to materialists” I Have not denied the data I gave alternative explanations for the data (which are better and simpler than yours).

    “As per your reasoning we must not accept the possibility that beyond the mountain there is a green land.” I do in fact hold it is entirely possible that consciousness continues after the death of the brain, I just think it is highly unlikely. In the future it may be possible to transfer consciousness from one brain to another brain (or a thing which does the same thing as a brain). In that case I would find the claims that consciousness continues and that people had a life in a previous body much more believable.

    “If not, why should you accept the testimony of others?” The theory the earth is round is supported by scientific data not “personal testimony”.

    “No matter how many people climb the mountain and come back with the same report we must not accept them, because what they say defies our world view” We are not talking about climbing a mountain, we are talking about people coming back from death. No dead person has ever come back to tell us about it and no living person can ever experience death. So death (or survival of consciousness after physical death) is not something which is experimental or can be experienced it’s just blind faith and speculation.

    “Do you see the absurdity of this “anecdotal” argument?” A scientists theory has to be supported by data and experiment – they have to be repeatable, verifiable and they have to produce a clear result positive or negative (I.e they have to falsifiable). No scientific theory relies on personal testimony.

  246. Ali Sina says:

    @Vishal Arya
    Thank you for your undeserving compliment. I agree on what you said about Gandhi. I am afraid he was blinded by his ahimsa creed. There is a time for peace and a time for war. Krishna also has a similar teaching. The entire Bhagavad Gita is the lesson of Lord Krishna to Arjuna that he has to fight for justice. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Gandhi should have forced all Muslims to leave India. He was very ignorant of Islam and this is clear from what he said about it. I believe he was duped by Montgomery Watt who also was a deluded Islamisist.

  247. Ali Sina says:

    “For Mr Sina his followers are cultist but not the followers of Jesus.Why this double standard Mr.Sina?”

    That is not what I ever said. I don’t know whether you read my articles or just read the title and a paragraph. I have said it in this article and in many others that God does not care what we believe, that even Muslims go to heaven. God sees only the goodness in us and you can be good whether you believe in God or not.

    However, it is more likely that a person who follows the message of Jesus and Buddha to be good than one who follows Muhammad, a mass murderer criminal. If you believe this mass murderer was a prophet but don’t do any of the things that he said you should and instead of following him, follow your conscience you will go to heaven. I read stories of Muslims and of gays who were admitted to heaven.

  248. Ali Sina says:

    “Can you please show us there are millions of cases saying the same thing.”
    In this site you can read 4000 of these stories. http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/archives_main.htm
    There are also thousands of videos on Youtube. They are growing fast. NDE is changing the world. I know many ex-atheists like myself whose views of the world and reality changed thanks to NDE.

    “Also please explain why people with particular religious upbringing have similar experiences. i.e. christians with NDE experience see jeebus, Hindus or Buddhist NDE experience see their gods or religious persons.. Why?”
    There are some differences in what people experience. From the little that I understand it appears to me that our after death experience is somehow subjective to our belief system. In the above article I mentioned a woman who saw his aging father who told her in heaven people are not old, but wanted to appear to her the way she remembered him. I also talked about angels offering to grow wings if that is how the NDEr preferred to see them. This tells me that heaven (and maybe hell too) are formless. They take forms familiar to us. Some people say they saw Jesus who was just light. Others see him in human form even with white robe and sandals. Some people who die say they did not have a body, but were fully aware of everything, could see and hear. Others report having a body, clothing and even describe heaven as a city with houses, roads, flying cars, etc.
    All I know is that we cannot make sense of heaven with material laws. The physical world is subject to physical law. The spiritual world has its own laws.

    “Don’t you think this is some hallucination?”
    No I don’t think what the NDErs report is the product of hallucination. Apart from the fact that many of these stories are verifiable and I posted a dozen of them in Why I Believe in God and Afterlife Now, they are also consistent. I never used drugs and have never been too sick to hallucinate, but we are all familiar with dreams. Even though dreams seem real when we wake up we know they were not. Dreams often make no sense and are diverse incoherent. The stories of NDE fall in the same pattern. People say they were more real than this world. They affect those who have had them drastically. These people often change their career, give up materialistic pursuits, lose their fear of death, care about their fellow beings. The changes they undergo are drastic and noticeable to those who know them.

  249. why? says:

    For Mr Sina his followers are cultist but not the followers of Jesus.Why this double standard Mr.Sina?
    ==========================================================================

    Sakat,

    The guy is a christian only. He will not believe in anything other than miracle performing 2000 year old zombie corpse god. Ironically he calls it “living son of living god” and believes in it and its miracles.

  250. why? says:

    “But when we have millions of people from all ages, races and beliefs saying the same thing, even at the risk of being ridiculed it would be foolish to dismiss the phenomenon.”
    =========================

    Can you please show us there are millions of cases saying the same thing. Also please explain why people with particular religious upbringing have similar experiences, i.e. christians with NDE experience see jeebus, Hindus or Buddhist NDE experience see their gods or religious persons..why? Don’t you think this is some hallucination?

  251. why? says:

    That explains lot of crap you keep writing about jeebus.

  252. Ali Sina says:

    @Steve
    “Personal testimony is not evidence.”

    This is called strawman fallacy. Many of these videos do not fall into “personal testimony” category and need to be explained. If a person can see what happens in other rooms, and his or her claim is confirmed by others that needs to be explained. There are tons of such cases and I posted only a dozen of them in Why I Believe in God and Afterlife Now.

    Furthermore when personal experiences become too many it is irrational to dismiss them. One person could be lying, two can be hallucinating, ten can be attention seeking, 20 can be pathological liars. But when we have millions of people from all ages, races and beliefs saying the same thing, even at the risk of being ridiculed it would be foolish to dismiss the phenomenon.

    “your belief is not rational because you dismiss the much more likely and simple explanations.”
    I am yet to hear that simple and rational explanation. What I heard so far are simplistic and irrational explanation that make less sense than those given by Muslims in defense of their faith. We keep saying to Muslims that denial is not proof and I now have to repeat the same to materialists.

    “Your belief is explained by appeal to anecdote, using unfalsifiable methods and confirmation bias.”
    Let us talk about this “anecdote” fallacy a bit.

    Let us say we have been living in a village surrounded by desert at the foot of a tall mountain. No one has been able to climb it. Someone invents a better gear that allows people to climb the mountain. Once these people get to the ridge and look beyond the mountain they see a green forest, with rivers flowing, human habitations and all sorts of delightful things. They return and report what they saw. Their report is dismissed and they are derided. After all we have seen is desert and that is all we know. More people climb the mountain and they come back with the same report. We dismiss them them as attention seekers. Other group climes and they report the same thing. We pontificate that in higher altitude the lack of oxygen makes them hallucinate. As per your reasoning we must not accept the possibility that beyond the mountain there is a green land. No amount of testimonies should make us even curious. No matter how many people climb the mountain and come back with the same report we must not accept them, because what they say defies our world view. Is this how you define being rational? Do you still believe the Earth is flat? Have you traveled around the world personally? If not, why should you accept the testimony of others? Do you see the absurdity of this “anecdotal” argument?

    What would make you believe that there is a green land behind the mountain? Nothing! You have made your mind that there cannot be a green land because you have never seen one and nothing will satisfy you.
    You may call that rational, but to me it is the acme of irrationality.

  253. Ali Sina says:

    “Ali Sina is a christian in disguise or one likely to end up as a christian.”
    In disguise? Jesus is my friend, my brother, my guide, and my savior. I announced that two years ago. I don’t call myself Christian because I disagree on many issues with Christians. But in all intent and purposes I am a follower of Jesus, the living son of the living God.

  254. why? says:

    Ali Sina is a christian in disguise or one likely to end up as a christian..

  255. Ra says:

    People believe in heaven and in hell but they were meant to be mythologies not realities. Same for all religions past and present. Same for all gods past and present. We should believe in religions only for the fun of it and not to take them seriously. Same for the NDE stories and same for the miracles and magic.

  256. steve says:

    “Your claim of claim of certainty of knowledge is yet to be witnessed.Whenever you’re ready, do share it.” When a person is dead they are indeed absolutely dead – that is they fit the definition of dead. A dead person – by definition – cannot come back from death. Any belief that consciousness survives the death of the brain is mere speculation – since anyone who is alive has never died and no soul of a dead person has ever come back to confirm consciousness continues.

    “Firstly,witness testimony is valid evidence,even if you find the subject matter undesirable” In that case you should accept that Sai baba performed miracles.

    “Click on link below.” Link doesn’t say anything about the afterlife.

    “However,for non-physical claims such as Theist propositions,the testing is done differently” The afterlife “theory” is not falsifiable that’s why it’s not scientific.

    “which is the equivalence of Falsifiability in Logic and Mathematics” The claim that consciousness survives the death of the brain and body is an empirical claim not a philosophical/logical claim. And their obviously isn’t any logical proof of the afterlife

  257. Sakat says:

    I have personally seen the performing of miracles by Sri Satya Sai baba .Even after his death still the miracles are happenings in plenty .In my cousin house ,still the ash (Vibhuti) is materializing from his photo.Not only that last year when i visited his ashram at puttaparti, i encountered many people who have benefited from Baba’s blessings (many of them cured of from last stage cancer’s). But if anybody ask Ali’s opinion ,he will simply say’s ,’that baba was homosexual’,and the basis for his opinion is a BBC documentary ,where in a white guy (probably missionary garbage)narrate his story about how the baba lured him to have sex with him.The great Baba started his spiritual journey at the age of 11 and from the tender age he was performing extra ordinary miracles, beyond human comprehension. Yet when it comes of forming an opinion ,the so called miracles performed by Jesus is accepted (there is no evidence to show that)without any second thought ,but a person who perform miracles in the presence of thousands of people ,is simply vilified on every platform as doing tricks.For Mr Sina his followers are cultist but not the followers of Jesus.Why this double standard Mr.Sina?

  258. Phoenix says:

    @steve

    Your claim of claim of certainty of knowledge is yet to be witnessed.Whenever you’re ready, do share it.

    You said: Many other people have probably already explained to you their is nothing to refute. Personal testimony is not evidence, if it’s is why you don’t accept Sai Baba hundreds claim they personally experienced miracle?//

    Firstly,witness testimony is valid evidence,even if you find the subject matter undesirable .Secondly,there are case studies done by medical professionals who have presented their evidence for NDEs that were published in medical journals.Claiming no evidence does not make the existing evidence vanish.Click on link below.
    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673601071008/abstract

    =====
    //You can’t refute something which is unfalsifiable – since the believer will then then add another layer of unfalsifiblity – no brain is receiver therefore drugs and brain damage is no problem to our theory//.

    Falsifiable claims are subjected to empirical investigation because said phenomenon has physical properties.However,for non-physical claims such as Theist propositions,the testing is done differently.Such claims are subjected to deductive analysis and can be examined for grounding,coherence and tested via Reductio ad Absurdum or Proof by Contradiction,which is the equivalence of Falsifiability in Logic and Mathematics.Pigeon-holing non-material Theistic claims into a category which is meant for a material category is an ontological error.Insistence on such an ontological/category error fallacy is irrational.

    How do you intend to respond to the above assessment?

  259. why? says:

    Ali Sina has started to swallow whatever nonsense is peddled by christian media. Did he ever verify the several tens of so called NDE stories put up by evangelical media? The corrupt missionaries just as they fake miracle stories with staged light shows by evangelists, they also create many fake NDE stories about this jesus. Could it be that Ali Sina is standing in the shore and thinking falsehood is truth? Why is it only people who believe in a particular deity sees that deity? A Hindu NDE experience has Hindu Gods, Buddhist one has Buddhist heavens, a chrisian one has jeebus, a muslium nde may also contain jeebus, simply because quran and islam believes in jeebus. All of this proves nothing.

  260. Vishal Arya says:

    Namaste Ali Sina,

    You are greatest scholar, great spiritual person/guru, great human being. I regard you on the top as many as people I have met/ read / watch so far. When I see Muslim debate with you I think it is like a lighting bug challenging to sun. These Muslim have destroyed our country. I do not like Gandhi who allowed them to live in India even after partition of country in name of religion.

  261. steve says:

    @phoenix
    “Firstly,doubt and skepticism must be adopted for justifiable reasons,not for the mere sake of doubt.
    Secondly,the doubt must eventually be removed and replaced with certainty,in the affirmative or negative.
    Doubt for the sake of doubt can’t lead to knowledge,it’s an intellectual void.” Having certainty means when you have no reason to doubt, their is no reason to think that consciousness survives death of the brain and believing that it does is just blind faith and speculation. Therfore so called materialists don’t have doubt – because their is no reason to doubt, what this person presented “near death experience” is not evidence that consciousness survives death of the brain.

  262. steve says:

    “Refute the evidence given in those videos rationally and I will become an atheist again.” Many other people have probably already explained to you their is nothing to refute. Personal testimony is not evidence, if it’s is why you don’t accept Sai Baba hundreds claim they personally experienced miracle? You can’t refute something which is unfalsifiable – since the believer will then then add another layer of unfalsifiblity – no brain is receiver therefore drugs and brain damage is no problem to our theory. Yes soul can observe physical world even though it’s not physical because it’s the soul. No dead person contacts us because they haven’t figured out how to interact with the physical world, yes their is a lot of suffering and evil in the world, but actually its good for us because it’s a lesson from God to prepare for the real life to come. No these people cannot possible lie, or imagine things, or forget (like the guy who “forgot” he had a relationship with a woman) or exergerate or add details in (consciously or otherwise) long after the experience. So on and on this can can go ad infinitude.Your belief is not rational because you dismiss the much more likely and simple explanations. Your belief is explained by appeal to anecdote, using unfalsifiable methods and confirmation bias.

  263. Phoenix says:

    Oh,I almost forgot.Materialists have another yardstick to measure rational reasoning which does not include the methods of deductive logical analysis.
    The one who offends the most or who can insult his opponent the best, is the one who is considered the most rational person.Atheists show up on forums,hurl insults and obscentiies then they run away and tell their buddies of their victory.It’s truly pitiful.

  264. Phoenix says:

    Hum has confused “complaining” with logic.There is no relationship between the two.

    Materialists believe one should remain in doubt indefinitely.This is of course irrational.
    Firstly,doubt and skepticism must be adopted for justifiable reasons,not for the mere sake of doubt.
    Secondly,the doubt must eventually be removed and replaced with certainty,in the affirmative or negative.
    Doubt for the sake of doubt can’t lead to knowledge,it’s an intellectual void.

  265. Ali Sina says:

    @Hun,
    It is funny that you should call afterlife gobbledygook while ignoring my challenge. Watch the videos I posted on Why I believe in God and afterlife and explain them rationally. If you do so I will revert to atheism. Can you? Of course you can’t, mainly because you will not watch them.

    Facts are clear and irrefutable, but as long as you keep your head deep in the sand and ignore the facts you can believe in any absurdity and think of yourself to be rational.

    In one of my previous articles I spoke of a Saudi cleric who “rationally” proved the Earth is stationary. All he did was ignore facts. Once you ignore facts any nonsense sounds rational.

  266. Hum says:

    Pick, I feel the same way.

    I mean, Ali Sina, I still think you have a lot of good points about Islam. But ever since you’ve adopted Christian beliefs, you’ve lost me a bit. Now instead of simply critiquing Islam, you force everything into a prism of made-up psuedo-religious gobbledygook. It bogs everything down.

  267. Ali Sina says:

    No Pick. I follow reason. After becoming convinced that NDE is a real phenomenon and not a trick of the mind I had no choice but to believe in God, heaven and hell. One has to follow the evidence even when it contradicts everything we believe. I don’t think denying the evidence is rational. The evidence of afterlife is irrefutable. The explanation of materialists is utterly irrational. They are even more irrational than the excuses of Muslims. My decision to believe in afterlife is not based on emotions. I had no need for such belief. I did not even like to believe this cruel work has creator, for it made things far less comprehensible. I had all the answers I needed. The world is the product of accident and therefor the injustice is part of nature. Things are the way they are, whether you like it or not.

    When I saw the reality is much different from my belief, nothing made sense and still they don’t. But facts are facts and evidence rules.

    In this article I have posted just 12 videos with irrefutable evidence, but there are hundreds like these. http://alisina.org/?p=3869

    Since I gave Muslims a challenge that they cannot meet, I give the materialists also a challenge. Refute the evidence given in those videos rationally and I will become an atheist again.

    Try it. See if you can. I did that myself. I tried hard because I did not want to believe in God. But I failed. Watch those videos and try to explain them rationally. You will soon see that you can’t.

  268. Pick says:

    What the heck happened to you Sina? You really became delusional.

%d bloggers like this: