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Scandinavian infidel
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 623
Location: Norwegian ex-pat, living in "the belly of the beast"
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 Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:26 am Post subject: Can the hearts-and-minds campaigns work on muslims? |
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http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/EL03Aa01.html
In the global "war on terror", it has begun to dawn on the authorities that in addition to the struggle against al-Qaeda and its like-minded forces, one which has to be based on good intelligence and sheer military might, winning the hearts and minds of Muslims is equally critical.
Due to the recent attacks in Saudi Arabia and Turkey, the Islamic world is finally beginning to feel the flame of religious extremism edging ever closer from the periphery to the center. As a result, the need to isolate the extremists has never been more important or more urgent.
But asking preachers to denounce terrorism is simply one of those half-measures that does not recognize the severity of the problem of Islamic extremism. If allowed to fester, the repercussions will grow progressively more severe, and the economic, political and psychological cost of terrorism to the rest of the world will only increase.
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The Islamic world is involved in up to 90% of the wars and terrorist attacks on the planet. If Islam is a religion of peace, how does a religion of war look like? |
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Dangermouse
Joined: 06 Dec 2002
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Muslims can surely be reached, but hey must give up on the hate teachings of the Quran.
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I wish this were true, but unfortunately muslims believe every word
in the quran to be from Allah. So not one word can be changed, and they
brag about this like some badge of honor.
"We don't need no stinking badges!"
Sorry i couldn't resist the above line.
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"There is no "emoticon" to express what I am feeling right now!" |
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Mazdak
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 740
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yes, islam will fall. It is only a matter of time.
Unfortunately there wil be many wars ahead, but there's no way to fight terrorism other than military actions.
The hearts and minds can be won. Islamist minds are programed to obey their leaders, and they will be totally lost if given the power to decide for themselves. It will take a whole new generation to change that. The hearts can be won, just show the whole islam and it's history to muslims. 9 out of 10 will be disgusted.
The important thing is that muslims need to learn allah is not God, allah is muhammad's ego. The spiritual ones can seek God in countles other ways, so the God remains.
Leaving islam doesn't mean atheism or lack of morals, it's just the opposite, islam is an immoral and ungodly system.
Islam will fall no doubt, there will be some chaos, and then the order will show up and things will improve. The proof is in 10s of millons of muslims who experienced some freedoms and "know" islam doesn't work, they remain muslims just as a label, but never follow it. |
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Unknown 447
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:58 pm Post subject: Hearts & Minds |
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Dear Dangermouse:
| Quote: | ...muslims believe every word
in the quran to be from Allah. So not one word can be changed... |
I am not Muslim but have read (English translations of) Koran and am trying to understand Islam and Islamism. You say Muslims believe every word is from Allah but is it not acknowledged that there are some verses that stray from monotheism and appear to admit goddesses? And were not these verses later revealed to be from Satan? Not from Allah?
My impression is that it is about at that point that the Koran "jumps the shark" as they say. My question is this: "when did Satan stop inserting verses?" |
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Unknown 447
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:10 pm Post subject: Hearts & Minds |
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Mazdak:
| Quote: | | Oh yes, islam will fall. It is only a matter of time. |
But time is not on the side of Islam, IMHO. The problem faced by America and allies is to prevent WMD, especially nuclear or bio from falling into the hands of the Islamist terrorists. This is being done by regime-changes in some cases, diplomatic/economic pressure in others, etc. But will it work?
If not, the consequences for Muslims and Islam will be catastrophic. Make no mistake, if it comes down to surrender or die, it will be the Islamists that die. Islamists will lose; the only question is how much damage will be done in the losing. Are ordinary Muslims really unaware of the existential threat they are harboring under their ideological tent? |
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Mazdak
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 740
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Hearts & Minds |
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| deanz1 wrote: | Dear Dangermouse:
| Quote: | ...muslims believe every word
in the quran to be from Allah. So not one word can be changed... |
I am not Muslim but have read (English translations of) Koran and am trying to understand Islam and Islamism. You say Muslims believe every word is from Allah but is it not acknowledged that there are some verses that stray from monotheism and appear to admit goddesses? And were not these verses later revealed to be from Satan? Not from Allah?
My impression is that it is about at that point that the Koran "jumps the shark" as they say. My question is this: "when did Satan stop inserting verses?" |
If you shake islam hard enough, most verses will turn out to be satanic, some verses are 'borrowed' from other religions.
Muhammad used some religious ideas and zeal to dictate his own will. When he started losing support based on his immoral sayings, he covered it up by claiming satan played a game on him.
Considering the ignorance of that time it was taken to be true, remember 8 out of 10 muslims today are illiterate, mentally they are no different than people of 1400 year ago, specially since they are ordered by mullahs to stay away from everything but koran, which they get to dictate to the people.
Islam summarized. |
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Mazdak
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 740
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Hearts & Minds |
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| deanz1 wrote: | | Are ordinary Muslims really unaware of the existential threat they are harboring under their ideological tent? |
That is a very deep thinking and right to the point.
8 out of 10 illiterate muslims have no idea what's it all about, they just follow some traditions, their mentality and reasoning powers is no more than of those old Arabs 1400 years ago.
I actually met a cleric who was in the process of 'studying" islam in a religious school in Iran. I asked him how come non of the officials of Iran speak any English for foreign relations? and his answer was, because England didn't exist back then, so how could they learn. He wasn't joking, that is the true mentality of many. And the funny thing is such clerics are put in charge of many important affairs. Not to mention that in Iran there is a massive wave of recruiting "everybody who can fight" into a fanatic islamic militia called basij, under the direct orders of mullahs. Just like the times of NAZI Germany. They are making the bomb, and they will use it and they are getting prepared for te aftermath. The results are obvious. Iran will be half weaporized, and then divided between whoever gets there.
Mullahs might be able to randomly bomb lots of civilians all over the world, only to cause massacre of islamists in the countries they attack. This is a real scenario, that could very well happen, the islamist mullahs and leaders will be safe in their already prepared shelters, they never gave a damn about people, never will, people themselves don't even know what the hell they are doing, they only wish to kill some Jews and Westerners at any cost.
No, they don't know what they are doing. It is a simple fact that eventually the terrorists mullahs will get the WMDs. Mullahs believe even if half of their population gets killed they will succeed in destroying the west, and the other half will finish the job. It is Satan himself leading islamist leaders, symbolically speaking.
It is better for islam to fall, rather than half muslims getting killed before it falls. |
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