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Susan
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 2727
Location: none
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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you can't care for children adequately, why have so many of them. These people are not fit to be parents and should be castrated. |
How would you be able to distinguish the fit parents from the unfit ones? Are you suggesting blanket castration for all Muslims?
Sorry, that story was truly disgusting, and it made me really really angry, but neither I nor FFI supports blanket force used against groups of people.
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The Sudanese Civil war has killed 2 million people and pushed 4 million tribespeople off their ancestral lands. |
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Unknown 192
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:48 am Post subject: Honor Killings |
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They should cap the number of children by the family income. If the income is not sufficient such that upon adulthood the "children" will end up sharing bedrooms, then the parents should be castrated once they have reached the limit of children based upon their family's income. I've noticed in my interactions with other Muslims that many of them have more than 2 children even though it is clear that they are barely making it. It's almost as if there is no family planning and if there is, it is frowned upon. While this is a gross generalization as I do not know all the Muslims in the world, this has been my personal experience. I could name several muslim families with 5 kids and thats just rediculous. Resources are a precious commodity and it's not the same as it was 50 years ago when labor was needed to work the land of when medicines were primative and children were lost to disease.
Last edited by Unknown 192 on Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Unknown 391
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| The story is very disturbing and unfortunately, it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. I certainly wouldn't want to see castration being adopted as the answer. The governments and religious leaders need to take a stand on these things and condemn it. It looks like these things are met with indifference from the authorities. It will take a bit of time to eradicate this from the culture. It goes on all over the place. |
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Unknown 192
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:05 am Post subject: Honor Killings |
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| Another point comes to mind in talking about limiting the size of families. If this woman had only 2 children as opposed to 6, she would probably feel differently about murdering one of them in the name of honor. Honor would probably fall to the wayside if she knew she would only be left with one. |
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Scandinavian infidel
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 623
Location: Norwegian ex-pat, living in "the belly of the beast"
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Honor Killings |
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| Ami wrote: | | Another point comes to mind in talking about limiting the size of families. If this woman had only 2 children as opposed to 6, she would probably feel differently about murdering one of them in the name of honor. |
I see your point. The same thing goes for suicide bombers and other terrorists. The Islamic world has got too many poor kids with little prospect of a better future.
I do, however, agree with Susan that the "castration" comment is not the FFI line.
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The Islamic world is involved in up to 90% of the wars and terrorist attacks on the planet. If Islam is a religion of peace, how does a religion of war look like? |
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Unknown 391
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Honor Killings |
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| Ami wrote: | | Another point comes to mind in talking about limiting the size of families. If this woman had only 2 children as opposed to 6, she would probably feel differently about murdering one of them in the name of honor. Honor would probably fall to the wayside if she knew she would only be left with one. |
The report I read said she had NINE children !!  |
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gopop
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 40
Location: NH
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:27 am Post subject: Talk Radio host |
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Neil Boortz, (bortz) Radio talk show host today reads this very story and shares his views again on the subject of Islam. It will be rebroadcast again later today.
Try a google search for local listings.
I heard it on wlob Maine 96.3 fm. and will be repeated there this afternoon. |
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Ibn Rushd
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:41 am Post subject: |
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The link that EK gave had a little ad in the right hand corner. It had a picture of two women, one with scarf and the other without. The one without had a smile and looked happy, the other looked angry and ready to kill.  |
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Unknown 330
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:18 pm Post subject: Islam and Muslims |
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What did I tell you before?
Muslims and Islam are one and the same thing. Moderate Muslims, Liberate Muslims are a figment of imagination. They are worthless.
Ali Sina is not a Muslim. Anwar Shaikh is not a Muslim. I understand Adnan, Bread are not Muslims either. Many others are learning about Muslims and Islam. That is good news. |
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TruthSpeaker
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Terrible and awful as this story is, the emotional reaction of condemning all muslims is not a worthy response. It comes close to tilting into propoganda that starts dehumanizing "muslims", and that is not where anyone should even consider going. I know many a muslims, and I am convinced that they have atleast two very separate personalities. When the issue of religion and Islam is not involved, nearly all muslims are extremely reasonable, likable, pleasent enjoyable nice people. However, when the issue of Islam comes up then the brainwashing that Islam imposes comes to fore and the personality is very different. Reason, rationality, etc. is out the window. The same reasonable rational person transforms into a screaming banshee.
This mother exhibits this schizo aspect of Islam very clearly.
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- The only religion, is the religion of truth. Without truth there can be no reason. |
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Unknown 192
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:21 pm Post subject: Follow up |
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| TruthSpeaker wrote: | | When the issue of religion and Islam is not involved, nearly all muslims are extremely reasonable, likable, pleasent enjoyable nice people. However, when the issue of Islam comes up then the brainwashing that Islam imposes comes to fore and the personality is very different. Reason, rationality, etc. is out the window. |
This is so very true....reason and logic are the polar opposite of Islam. To them, complete submission to God means ignoring reason and logic and looking to a dated 1500 year old book written....correction, transcribed from the orations of schizophrenic for guidance in today's socitey. |
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Unknown 391
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| You can't just blame the individual here. This honour killing tradition has been going on for centuries and is carried on through ignorance. This woman really seems to believe she did the right thing. It's high time the leaders of these communities, the clerics and the authorities, started to educate their populace away from such savagery. It really does want to make me puke. |
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Susan
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 2727
Location: none
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | However, when the issue of Islam comes up then the brainwashing that Islam imposes comes to fore and the personality is very different. Reason, rationality, etc. is out the window. The same reasonable rational person transforms into a screaming banshee.
This mother exhibits this schizo aspect of Islam very clearly. |
I've had rational and rewarding conversations with at least one Muslim about Islam and the person did not descend into banshee-ism. But it was a person I trusted a great deal. I would never broach the subject of religion with a Muslim I didn't know very, very well. Whereas I would never feel that way about Jews or Catholics, or even Mormons.
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The Sudanese Civil war has killed 2 million people and pushed 4 million tribespeople off their ancestral lands. |
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TruthSpeaker
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MrHappy wrote: | | You can't just blame the individual here. This honour killing tradition has been going on for centuries and is carried on through ignorance. This woman really seems to believe she did the right thing. It's high time the leaders of these communities, the clerics and the authorities, started to educate their populace away from such savagery. It really does want to make me puke. |
The leaders of are under the same brain washing as this woman. Mass hysteria is no excuse for murder. Read what Eygptian Kafir posted above: 60 of the 85 lawmakers!! Blaming it on tribal customs is a cop out. Islam has been there for 1400 years. The tribal culture of the people and arab imperialism of Islam are two sides of the same coin. Savagry is part and parcel of both. The problem is Islam. Period.
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- The only religion, is the religion of truth. Without truth there can be no reason. |
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Ibn Rushd
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Susan, 1 out of how many? |
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Unknown 391
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| TruthSpeaker wrote: | | MrHappy wrote: | | You can't just blame the individual here. This honour killing tradition has been going on for centuries and is carried on through ignorance. This woman really seems to believe she did the right thing. It's high time the leaders of these communities, the clerics and the authorities, started to educate their populace away from such savagery. It really does want to make me puke. |
The leaders of are under the same brain washing as this woman. Mass hysteria is no excuse for murder. Read what Eygptian Kafir posted above: 60 of the 85 lawmakers!! Blaming it on tribal customs is a cop out. Islam has been there for 1400 years. The tribal culture of the people and arab imperialism of Islam are two sides of the same coin. Savagry is part and parcel of both. The problem is Islam. Period. |
I am not talking about the punishment for the crime, I am talking about the crime itself and the culture that causes it. There have been a few of these "honour killings" in Europe and the offenders face the European criminal system, but the poor victim is still dead. "Honour killings" still happen in Europe despite the laws in Europe. Culture takes a long time to change as does the law. The fact that 25 lawmakers voted to change the law could even be seen as "progress" at some level. The fact that the mother shows no regret and and feels she did the right thing is the problem.
As for the brothers ? WTF were they thinking ?!! |
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Unknown 320
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:01 pm Post subject: Rofayda Qaoud |
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Rofayda, a girl raped by her own brothers and suffocated by her own mother!
I will meditate and pray that Rofayda's spirit, and all those like hers, finds peace. This is truly horrible as well as disgusting.  |
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Unknown 447
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:59 pm Post subject: Female infanticide |
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Dear Bread:
Thank you for setting me straight on this matter. Yes, you are right, it doesn't make much sense. I suppose it's just another myth.
Bread, what do you think about my other point on collective thinking being common between Marxists, etc. on one hand and Islamists on the other hand? |
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bread
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | One underlying theme is hereby revealed: that the group (family, clan, tribe, whatever) has "rights" which supercede those of individuals. This collectivist ideology is prominant not only in Islamist thinking but also in Marxism, communism, and related ism's. This helps to explain the affinity between Western Leftists and Islamists. |
Well, the Communist system doesnt really exist anymore.
USSR and the Eastern European Socialist block have both collapsed.
And the ``Communism`` in Cuba, China, Vietnam etc are undegoing massive market reforms. There isnt much ``Communism`` left in them, and whatever is left is changing so fast that it will soon be history.
Now if you talk of the Western Left, that is not really ``Communist`` and it has never been. It is more a culture of critique, without a defined socio-economic theory behind it. At best it is a loose alliance of PCist crowds with lots to critique, but little to offer by way of a workable system. So they pick up a slogan here, a (temporary) cause there, in an effort to justify their existence and to proove that they are really different than the Western mainstream. But wihtout a solid ideology behid them to unify them, what are they really? A large crows with shiting alliances and priorities. Unfocused and uncoordinated.
They pick up Islamist defense today and might turn on it with a vengeance tommorrow. |
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Egyptian Kafir
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 474
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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anyone else here who had an overwhelming urgue to stab his eyes out after reading this from this leftist retard in Al-Gaurdian forum:
| Quote: | Truly awful.
On Jan. 27, Rofayda sent word that she was in danger to crisis counselors at Abu-Dayyeh's center in East Jerusalem. They, in turn, called Palestinian police in Ramallah, who have jurisdiction over Abu Qash. The police said they couldn't get to the Qaoud home because of Israeli checkpoints.
She could have been saved. |
...
what the bloody hell??
this is unreal.
Ineresting btw, a TOTAL SILENCE regarding this disgusting event in ALL major, government-owned arabic newspapers  , now, if the "people" who did this were "the jews", not muslims, how will their reaction be? duh..no need to say it.
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“The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.” ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes |
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Piggy
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 835
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bread wrote: | Now if you talk of the Western Left, that is not really ``Communist`` and it has never been. It is more a culture of critique, without a defined socio-economic theory behind it. At best it is a loose alliance of PCist crowds with lots to critique, but little to offer by way of a workable system. So they pick up a slogan here, a (temporary) cause there, in an effort to justify their existence and to proove that they are really different than the Western mainstream. But wihtout a solid ideology behid them to unify them, what are they really? A large crows with shiting alliances and priorities. Unfocused and uncoordinated.
They pick up Islamist defense today and might turn on it with a vengeance tommorrow. |
There is much to be gained by drawing the academic-apologists (university professors and lecturers) into public debate, with the "pre-conditioned" youth, that hover at their every word, in the gallery, as well as those who might have been the students of "smirk" with their inflated confidence that Islam's spread is humming along just fine, whilst the apologist-teach' struts his stuff.
These academic-apologists will have no choice but to suffer humility and admit a bias; admit their abuse of a "generic-trust", placed in them by the broader-community, in deviating from the important and expected quality and example of impartiality that is, and should be the primary, essential base for an educator or tutor to be worthy of the tutorist-platform.
Go for the teachers of youth; seperation of religion or religious-bias from progressive, free-thinking education at youth level is of paramount importance. |
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Muad'Dib
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And the ``Communism`` in Cuba, China, Vietnam etc are undegoing massive market reforms. There isnt much ``Communism`` left in them, and whatever is left is changing so fast that it will soon be history. |
China no longer practices communist economics so it can no longer be called a communist country. Don't think freedom and democracy in general will inevitably follow the "liberalisation" of China's economy though. Capitalism can thrive indefinitely under authoritarian governments. The mantra that "as people become better off as a result of Capitalist wealth creation they will start demanding their political rights" is just so much self-serving rich man's propaganda which is not borne out by the history of western democracies. The Chartists in nineteenth century Britain, for instance, were a working class movement which sought parliamentary representation for working people in order to better their grim lives through legislation.
As this person points out here:
| Quote: | | There were intellectuals who tried to justify slavery and apartheid and every other system of unfree labor, and now there are intellectuals who try to justify U.S. sweatshops under dictatorial regimes. Some of these same undemocratic regimes (e.g., China) were, until a decade ago, denounced by corporate-owned politicians. But now that the largest U.S. corporations have factories in China, we don't hear much about the lack of freedom of Chinese workers. |
That's right, the only "freedom" the greedy of the world care about is the "freedom" to make money at all costs. |
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