Faith Freedom International

Unknown 354 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 20

ah.
something about my leaving islam,right?
i'll tell you what i think.i was shttered into pieces yesterday,as some kind of horrible truth appeardd before my eyes.
i have been reading and burrowing though a suncoulture of anti-islamic websites on the net.although all the ahadith i had seen were either weak or misinterpreted,and almost all testimonies were biased,but the rest had some kind of meaning.
i study biology and live in a muslim middle-eastern country,
and i have to say (excuse the hostility,or don't,i don't care) that almost all people on this site live in western secular societies and have been heavily influenced by their traditions.
but i guess what is done is done,i can no longer return .
that would be like attaching a severed piece of flesh to the body it came from . i actually started praying the day after, but came to the conclusion it was just a pathetic attempt at putting the pieces togeether. it still feels very bad , yesterday i almost fell sick, to have your fundamental belief so effortlessly shattered in one day.

i had before been an avid supporter of the theory of evoloution,read many of richard dawkins books.
but i had kept it away from religion,i thought that some kind of "liberal interpretation " could be found for the quranic verses.but i tried and failed,i wanted to confront the thing and tell it i was not a man who would fear a fight.
and i lost the fight,maybe i should've never began.
i still hold islam dear to my heart,no matter what you all say,it is a good religion of love and forgiving sins,i did good things for people and never harmed anyone while i was still a muslim , and for me it was a way of thinking, you were sure of the universe, god was there to look after you, but now?
i sold serenity for a constant state of doubt,this might be scientifiacally good for me , doubt makes a good scientist,
and i want to be one.

but it broke me.even the possibilty ioslam might have been wrong,just the thought... just the possibilty,it hurts,
i hate you all,and always will,i can never tell anyone about this ,not even a hint,or they'll kill me and hang my head on a stick,you made this happen to me.you lousy spoiled ignorant ex-muslims.
i know the feeling,and agree with muslims who want to chop the heads of apostates off,the same would christians .and any one else who had a religion and security once and felt how they gave him the feeling....

but i am at least somewhat revenged to tell you i am still a muslim under cover,and i'm going to marry a beautiful muslim girl and pay a high dower(especially for you feminists).
but i'll treat her good and tender.
and you can't stop me,you can't stop US,there is an entity called us,truth can not be fouhgt,i should know that,
but those who bear it can be killed,and shut up.i should know that too.
and no,that won't make martyrs of you any more than it did of "abu lahab".

one final note: this site is not objective,there are many pro-islam arguments that can be listed here.but they are not.it feels like a muslim-to-christian site,which is horrible,you leave a god to be enslaved by another,that's the paramount of stupidity.and also the site reflects no religious tolerance whatsoever,everyone says what he wants .
you know tolerance is needed,some of my best friend are from other religions,and you don't encourage tolerance at all with irresponsible remarks.atheists?ok,christians,muslims,hindu what-have-you,i don't care .but at least be logical and try to have no pre-ideas or prejudieces.that's all it takes.

and that's all i have to say.but on a fianl note,don't tell a muslim you are an apostate,it may be me,and if so,i am going to cast the biggest stone i find on you to knock you dead and shut you up for good.just think of this.i won't have you harming more people.

Crow · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:46 pm Post subject:

adnan · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject:

Muslim,

Ampbreia · Joined: 10 Oct 2002 Posts: 476 Location: U.S.A.

Unknown 354 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 20

i was not planning to write anything again here, but your smart reply,Ampbreia,deserves an anser.
so i'll go through your questions one-by-one.

my fundamental belief was islam.i was raised a muslim.and considered myself to be a good one.my family members are muslims.many of them are sheiks,all my best friends are muslims.

why cling to something neither true nor benificial?
it is beneficial,when you believe in god you have peace,internal peace.that's it,you have a friend.and you know you will be resurructed in the afterlife to live eternally.

i sound angry?of course i do,i have lost eternal life,a good friend(god),and peace,and i can tell no oe about it,i'll be disowned and cast away.and worse yet,when i look at people i think "how deceived they are" and when i look on myself ,fear of the unknown prevails upon me,no god,no afterlife,death,the so-called apprehendsion of mortality.it's difficult to deal with at firat,i know.and then comes lying,and telling people i am a good muslim,and fear of someone knowing about it.
i blame you people for this,if it wasn't for this board i'd still be happy,ignorant yes,but happy,you denied me that.

i don't hold humanity in contempt,i even don't have problems with homosexuals and zoophiles,but i know there are friends and enemies.i think ...,yes,people get killed because they are different,if i say openly i left islam,i'll be killed that night.
or a fate worse than death,all will leave me alone,you see clearly i'm not converting to another rligion,i'm leaving god altogether,i have no one left.i have to be a muslim,to live like one,to act like one,i was kind-hearted,but i no longr am.i know it's a tough wold out there,but od made it easier on people,and now,with him dead,what do i have to stick to?a society,one that accepts me.

my post didn't make much sense,right.i was angry,and still am,you took my life from me,my curse is that i always took pride in logic,and sense,and just the

idea that i could be wrong,that i was wrong all these years made me shudder.like i said,part of me died.

and i have to be rutheless,cast stones on people so that no stones are cast on me,you people don't live in muslim communities,but i do,so you don't know what it feels to meet all the familiar faces every day and think "only if they knew"

this "forbidden knowledge" can make a person more human,i'll be better to my family and to others,for i know i won't see tham later,no afterlife.but it also makes you hard at heart,who did this to me?whose fault is it?

people who kill and mutilate are people,people,i live a dual life,with two personalities,what i say in public i deny in private,what i believed in for years i no longer believe in,what do you want me to say?
am i happy?am i contented?am i better-off like this?

Crow · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:31 pm Post subject:

You cant blame other people for your own bitter realisations...it is your choice to either stay in islam or leave it. You should feel releived that you are no longer living a lie, and this should motivate you to try and live your life to the fullest rather than slaving away for god's will, praying 5 times a day, and feeling hatred for non-muslims. You have so many different choices on what to beleive now. Just because you are no longer muslim, that does not mean you absolutely cannot beleive in a higher force..a god-like entity. You need to look at different viewpoints out there and decide for yourself what best suits your mindframe. You obviously live in a muslim country, and that is going to be difficult...but, what you should be thinking of, for the future, is leaving. Your life will be better if you can come to a place where you can openly express your beleifs without fear of death.
_________________

KAMIKAZE WATERMELON!

Fischerspooner is weird..but cool

adnan · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject:

ahboo, what made you leave Islam?

Unknown 354 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 20

Crow · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:17 pm Post subject:

Well, you obviously are not going to be happy living in fear of being found out...but if your'e going to be this way, then why are you even here? Of course people are going to suggest you leave your country. I would, even if it did mean leaving my family...and you say you sympathise with muslims who want to kill and torture kafirs, yet think it is stupid when I reply with a negative tone? Just what is your problem, anyways? Rolling Eyes

This site isn't here so people can play the blame game and try to guilt trip each other because of their own personal decisions. It is here so people can have rational and polite discussions about religion, apostacy, etc. Of course, this does not always happen...but that is the purpose.

Personally, I dont think it makes any sense to stay in a place where you are going to be miserable anyways.
_________________

KAMIKAZE WATERMELON!

Fischerspooner is weird..but cool

Unknown 354 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 20

Adnan,after rereading your post,it starts to make sense in a way.
Idea

Ampbreia · Joined: 10 Oct 2002 Posts: 476 Location: U.S.A.

Hello Ahboo4,

I appreciate your considerate reply.

Perhaps it would help you to realize that, unlike Islam, appostasy does not require you to proclaim or display it. It matters only that you are being honest with yourself. That fact that you have enough strength of character to be so, means you will find enough strength to find yourself, to be who yourself, that is. You can marry the girl. If you are kind to her and show her nothing but your affection and respect, I doubt very much that she would hold your appostasy against you - though her parents probably would, so I wouldn't advise telling them.

I've heard it said that in Islam love is only for God. If you're not really a Muslim, then you can have the special blessing of being a part of humanity and in love with your wife. Really, she might be glad at your appostasy. When I was a Muslim's wife and a Muslimah myself, I did not find that life at all pleasing, especially the part where my then-husband told me that "Love is only for God," therefore he couldn't really love me. There is something singularly horrible and insecure about being at the mercy of someone whom one is married to but that "Can't really love me." Trust me. Any wife - Muslim or not - feels more happiness and security with a husband that loves her. Religion doesn't hold a candle to that satisfaction.

Marry the girl, make her happy, and make yourself happy. Honor the rituals you need to in order to be a part of your family and community. Rituals don't define who you are inside, they just decorate the outside and give people things to share.

About the nature of God, I am agnostic myself. I believe in the possibility of a God, but feel no great need to have it defined for me. It is enough for me to know that I am part of a greater universe that we are all somehow a part of it, a universe that seems intelligent in its own right. The God of Bible and Koran seem to small to me. It's the pettiness, the jealousy, the cruelty, the favor of one small faction of people after another and setting them to war with one another that seems so UNdivine to me. I hope I don't offend you with this concept. It just seems to me that a truly omniscent omnipresent being would be far above all that.

As eternal life, does it have to be according to Koran? Many other religions hold such concepts as well as do some sciences and philosophies. People are always reporting after life experiences when they are clinically dead for awhile and come back. Likewise, people often report out-of-body experiences and the things they saw: things happening miles away from where their physical bodies lay, other places, times, even world. Only the this-world things can be confirmed but, interestingly, they usually are. I've had out of body experiences myself, in fact, and was struct by the fact that it wasn't death. I felt totally alive and aware during the experience... and very light too. Also, I should mention my vision seemed sharper and deeper: nothing really dark, all colors brighter, 360 degree perception.... While there are various medical explanations given for these experiences, but it the simplest explanation for them is simply that they are real. Consciousness doesn't require physical being. I can look at that and say, yeah, I believe there's life after death. I believe we shape it for ourselves on a very metaphysical level too. People who experience Hell, for instance, are those that expect it. Just as Heaven is for those who expect it. Everything in between is for those who choose their own realms rather than having them chosen for them. Does that make sense to you? I hope the thought will give you some comfort.

Meanwhile, be happy in this world and do well by it so you have no fear and guilt to haunt you afterwards.
_________________
It takes a heavy set of horns to support a good halo!

adnan · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:27 pm Post subject:

thanks abhoo, i'm glad it did. was it this site that made you leave islam? anything else? books.. other sites? we're trying to see what can be done to make more people leave islam.
what about your personal problems? it seemed you were on the edge, for example, you hated prayer, islam was'nt working for you etc.
were you ever religious? what kind of faith in islam did you have and how much did you practice?
again, congratulation on joining the free land.. you can now enjoy your life without feeling guilty.

Mazdak · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 740

Once a priest was called upon a dying atheist man, He spent all night preaching God to the dying man, finally the atheist accepted God and then he died. The man's mother came to the priest and said "you just made my son believe he was wrong all his life just before he died."

The priest felt so bad that he became an atheist.

One day another priest was dying and he spent all night proving the other priest was wrong, finally the other priest became and atheist and then he died. The priest's mother said "you just made my son believe he was wrong all his life just before he died."

After that the atheist ex-priest decided not to tell anybody what to believe.

You see, "belief" is a choice, but "knowledge" is the real thing.
Violence, murder, lies and rape are always wrong. We "know" that for sure. But some may "believe" those are good things, they may even "believe" God said so.

Ali Sina · Joined: 14 Feb 2002 Posts: 2174

Abu Lahab · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 67 Location: USA

Hey abhoo,
I know just how you feel... Iknow the anger, and emptyness, the lonelyness...
I'm sorry you feel this way.
I'm in your shoes too...
I'm getting shunned from my familly too...
My mother cried all last night for me...poor woman...I fear for her mental health...It just dawned on her...If I'm not religoius...neither will my wife be....She's losing it...
I understand the quote, "ignorance is bliss" and sure you do too....
I remember the second I disbeleived in jenna....i left the libray, and I saw a really tall building in front of me. I imagined that I pulled out my SPIDER-MAN arm and shot the building with my webing and pulled myself closer to the builiding, to make myself closer to my next class...I've had thoughts like that since i was a kid,,,i loved marvel comics...especially X-men...Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Archangel....etc...Since a child I dreamed of jenna, where i could be these characters for real, and couldn't wait to die, so that the party could begin.
that day, when i was having doubts about islam...i considered myself a "liberal" muslim...
After i had the Spiderman imagination, it hit me...IF I'm questioning everything...what about jenna...This is so childish...what a dream...It isn't true..is it?
This thought crushed me...I was so crushed, I wanted to collapse...i was walking towards a bench to sit on...but decided i would just sit down against the library sturctures outside. I wanted to cry...All my life, I waited for jenna...I dreamed...I was there with my dead grandpa...I hung out with my friends...I was all the character I read about, and made up some of my own...I was so powerful in this jenna...all my life's actions are towards going to this place...
I couldn't cry..I was in public....instead I just stared at nothing...
What was the point of my life, was it all in waste? All the fun things I denied...for allah...for what?
I'm sorry you are in such a difficult position...please, personally email me, if you have any questions regarding how to hide, deal with marriage, or other questions..
Good luck with everything,
abu
_________________
Kaffirs: Mount up!

Piggy · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 835

Dear Ahboo4,

Please read this, it may give you some comfort.

When you have go here and read: (browse this site)

http://www.dalailama.com/html/peace_nonviolence.html

THE DESIDERATA
Desiderata = the sense of something missing, the thing desired,
- Oxford Concise Dictionary

Go placidly among the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself.

Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.

Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the Universe; no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

Best wishes.
Piggy.

adnan · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:29 pm Post subject:

ahboo, your story is so incredible, its almost hard to believe that it happened. you're a nice deep guy.. true to yourself.. and thats wonderful.
so whats up man.. i hope the muslim girl you marry will be like-minded for you. i know how it feels.. ask me.. i'm from pakistan.. my whole family is Muslim. .that means its almost a 0 chance that i'll find a nice girl who has the same background as me. but i'm now content with marrying a non-muslim.. but i also hope to find a girl thats like me.. you can talk to them and find out what their thinking is to make sure you dont marry a "muslimah".
if you live in a strict middle eastern country, you can try getting out to another western country.. so u dont feel more pressurized. ok! glad to have u in the family of ex-muslims and you'll be just fine.
also, see this another fresh apostate's story:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7519 maybe you can feel similiar and talk to each other, this will also help you.

Anahita · Joined: 29 Sep 2002 Posts: 1008

What are you talking about Adnan? I know lots of Pakistani ex-muslims. (OK fine, only two). But still.

Unknown 273 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 98

abhoo4

I remember being dejected at having lost that deceptive peace that Islam gives you. years later I have a different kind of peace. And enormous satisfaction at being a human capable of this evolutionary leap beyond blind faith. A state still quite rare.

What makes us human or worthy to be called humans is our intellect. If we deny ourselves our intellect we might as well be a beast, any beast in the jungle. You have encountered your intellect thats all.

Now your surrounding is not your doing, your realization of yourself is still incomplete, for religion is not just a belief in some God and following his messengers teachings. Religion is a belief in one's self, in false ideas of one's greatness and superiority. In false ideas of a purpose, a direction and such.

All these voids have to be filled now. But trust me, its possible to do it.

Its better that you are an atheist and not some stupid convert to another fallacy, but a convert does not loose all at once and his void is smaller. You just took a giant step, unprepared and ill equiped.

There is enormous satisfaction awaiting you, a state you will slowly reach over the next year or two as you see yourself perform at another level well above others around you.

And please no heroics, the last thing we need is another athiest martyr. keep your self around. Death is inevitable, gather lifes experiences.

And as far as your purpose, why dont you think of one and stick to it. It could be something as stupid as counting money, to something as grand as helping humanity - your choice. What ever you choose will be better than rolling "tasbee" and going up and down in kaabas direction.

nina · Joined: 02 Sep 2002 Posts: 331

Dear Ahboo4,

When I read your post the first time, I thought it was very confusing. But I read it again, and I now I think that you describe very well the conflicting feelings that you live through at the moment, and the pain and insecurity that's caused by it.

Spinoza · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 1214

Unknown 354 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 20

i have to say something,it feels much better now,knowing there are others who had the same experience.thank you,you made it much easier .i would've said "i'm sorry " ,but i guess i haven't reached that level yet,where one is capable of forgiving.but i do feel a lot better,and i am obliged to reply to the kind things you wrote.