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Milkshake
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:48 am Post subject: Can anyone clarify this quranverse? |
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I give up, I have read all the translations in english and my norwegian quran. I cannot grasp it....
024.058
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
024.059
YUSUFALI: But when the children among you come of age, let them (also) ask for permission, as do those senior to them (in age): Thus does Allah make clear His Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Ask for permission to do what?
Syed Maududi says in his commentary the following:
All the Muslim women were enjoined to cover their faces with their sheets if and when they had to go out of their houses.(v. 59).
But I cannot make sence of this. Can anyone else? |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Milkshake,
As usual the quran is somewhat unclear. I interpret it as follows:
People tend to be immodestly dressed before going to sleep at night, when they just wake up in the morning, and when they are outside immodestly dressed during the heat of a summer day.
If a child or slave wants to visit at that time, the person must ask permission first, (knock before entering??) . At other times permision is not needed.
I was a little less clear with regards, to an adult. Perhaps, an adult (non-slave) always needs permission.
The english translation was gender neutral, the Quran generally is not.
Best regards,
Rand |
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bread
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 024.058
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom. |
Thats simple. Little children can see you undressed. But when they reach ``age`` they must not see nakedness.
That is the meaning of these Quranic verses.
They reinforce MuhamMAD`S paedophilic tendencies, as he thinks children exposed to adult nakedness is quite alright with Allah.   |
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everybee
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 858
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Ask for permission to do what?
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before they come to your presence |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), |
Is "O ye who believe" (the adult) male or female? Are the children male or female? Are the slaves male or female? |
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bread
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Those ``your right hand poses`` are female. Only males took prisoners, and since Homosexuality was forbidden they took females only. The men they just slaightered. Children could be both male and female. |
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Milkshake
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you everybody, this was all I saw as well but got thrown by Maududis explanation... |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:00 am Post subject: |
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2:104
| Quote: | | 104. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqooloo raAAina waqooloo onthurna waismaAAoo walilkafireena AAathabun aleemun |
2:153
| Quote: | | 153. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo istaAAeenoo bialssabri waalssalati inna Allaha maAAa alssabireena |
2:282
| Quote: | | 282. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha tadayantum bidaynin ila ajalin musamman faoktuboohu walyaktub baynakum |
The 3 verses above begin with O you who believe. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo . I take those words to be masculine.
24:58 uses the same expression.
| Quote: | | 58. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo |
Without knowing arabic, I'd guess the adult was male as well. Presumably, other transliterations might be different. |
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