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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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 Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I would feel more comfortable if there was a strong exit strategy. Given the bf's depression, and that at any moment, someone can give him advice, I am concerned that he will do something drastic.
If there were a sound exit strategy, cosmicreason can be patient and wait for the right set of circumstances to enlighten him. I just would like CR to be prepared for a worst-case scenario.
Best regards,
Rand |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Thank you all for your advice and support..It has been a great help.
He has no prove or evidence for his beliefs..besides the quran..and he cannot prove that either.
I am now more aware and now I can be prepared for anything. I will keep you posted.
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Ali Sina
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with everything Ampbreia said.
A Muslim man may live in "sin" but he will do everything to provide an Islamic education for his children so they are raised as Muslims. Do not trust a Muslim man even if he drinks or commits fornication. He will look for opportunities to take away your child and raise her as a Muslimah.
You can only trust a Muslim man if he says Muhammad was a pig and repeats it a thousand times. Otherwise he is a Muslim and Muslim men will eventually do what Muslim men do best. Any person who thinks Muhammad was a prophet should not be trusted.
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Doubt everything, find your own light! |
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Nihang
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: URGENT..ADVICE NEEDED.. |
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| cosmicreason wrote: | Here is my story:
My boyfriend is a muslim. I am Hindu. We have one child, she is only 4 months. We live together, because I refuse to do a nikkah. His family are nice to me, but they don't like me because I am hindu and I didn't convert. there are many converts that married into his family. I am the only one that refuses to convert. He hopes or believes that one day I will convert.
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You are not a Hindu even though you think you are one. You gave up Sanatana Dharma the moment you fornicated with a Muslim man and mothered his illegitimate child. You are at best his mushrik concubine. It would be good for you to convert to some other religion because you are not fit to be accepted by any decent Hindu family. Don't call yourself Hindu anymore. Convert to Islam and raise your girl as a Muslim. This will save her from confusion and tragedy that awaits her in Hindu society which will never accept her until you lie about the circumstances of her birth.
Call yourself atheist, new ager, communist, whatever, please don't call yourself Hindu.
_________________
"Blessed, blessed is the blanket of Krishna." (Sikh Holy Book SGGS, Page 988)
"To fight the oppressor and to defend the meek" (Kashatriya Sanatan Sikh) |
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MarkT
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1152
Location: On the globe that gave me birth-the cool green hills of Earth
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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"never accept her" 
That in a nutshell is the problem with the whole freakin world.
_________________
"—to find one's happiness in truth, to oppose illusion, to value integrity above God, and character above salvation." |
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Ampbreia
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 476
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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If you ask me, religion is the problem. It's an excuse for people to fight and to reject each other as Nihhang so eloquently (and unkindly) illustrates. Religion! Who needs it! *SIGH*!
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It takes a heavy set of horns to support a good halo! |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Nighang, thanks for the reply..
| Quote: | | You are not a Hindu even though you think you are one. |
*The word Hindu has no meaning, was made up**
| Quote: | | You gave up Sanatana Dharma the moment you fornicated with a Muslim man and mothered his illegitimate child. |
*Appearantly Sanantan Dharma has a different meaning to you**
| Quote: | | You are at best his mushrik concubine. It would be good for you to convert to some other religion because you are not fit to be accepted by any decent Hindu family. |
*I don't need to convert to anything. I can see what your sanatan dharm has thought you...You are not fit to be accepted as a human being. Because of people like you, that is why many women convert. Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not one of those.
| Quote: | | Don't call yourself Hindu anymore. Convert to Islam and raise your girl as a Muslim. This will save her from confusion and tragedy that awaits her in Hindu society which will never accept her until you lie about the circumstances of her birth. |
*I am glad that we don't live within your "hindu society"..Which the poplulation of is only One(yourself). Your mentality suits those of Islam..Even a child knows better. You are fit to convert to Islam....The society I come from and which I currently live .. My daughter and myself are accepted..and I didn't and will never lie about the circumstances or hang my head in shame. Perhaps you have been watching too many hindi movies.
| Quote: | | Call yourself atheist, new ager, communist, whatever, please don't call yourself Hindu. |
*Call yourself the Devil  or an animal, but please don't ever call or even consider yourself a human being. Perhaps in your next life you will be fortunate enough to live among the speicies that suits your mentality.
I await your response..I am sure you can come up with something better than that.. 
[/quote] |
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Ibn Rushd
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Ampbreia wrote: | Quote: | | Religion! Who needs it! *SIGH*! |
May I suggest that instead of a sigh, you say "Pfft", "Uugh", or something of the like. I believe that you can guess at the sound since typing sounds is impossible at this time. |
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Nihang
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ampbreia wrote: | | If you ask me, religion is the problem. It's an excuse for people to fight and to reject each other as Nihhang so eloquently (and unkindly) illustrates. Religion! Who needs it! *SIGH*! |
I am giving her a touch of reality and preparing her for the worst. Her ties with Hindu society are all but snapped. She will not find a place in Hindu society unless she lies and cheats people . She will create unnecessary trouble for her kid by bringing her up as a Hindu.
Such examples should not be given acceptability lest their precedent corrupt other young people in community.
The only honorable thing for her is to marry her boyfriend and give her daughter a proper family. Converting to Islam , however cosmetically, is very small price for the welfare and hapiness of the child.
Religion is not the problem. We cannot have our society degenrate into whoredom, how so ever glorified as "liberation" and "emancipation" . Low charactered women bring downfall to entire societies and nations. There will be disorder all around if likes of her are accepted in the same honorable category as our mothers, sisters , wives and daughters . People who responsibly regulate their sexual urge in way that would not create disorder and misery in society can do better without having such role models for their children. When the sanctity of family and marriage breaks down , chaos ensues in that society and it self-destructs. Society has to be guarded from such examples.
_________________
"Blessed, blessed is the blanket of Krishna." (Sikh Holy Book SGGS, Page 988)
"To fight the oppressor and to defend the meek" (Kashatriya Sanatan Sikh) |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I am giving her a touch of reality and preparing her for the worst. Her ties with Hindu society are all but snapped. She will not find a place in Hindu society unless she lies and cheats people . She will create unnecessary trouble for her kid by bringing her up as a Hindu.
Such examples should not be given acceptability lest their precedent corrupt other young people in community.
The only honorable thing for her is to marry her boyfriend and give her daughter a proper family. Converting to Islam , however cosmetically, is very small price for the welfare and hapiness of the child.
Religion is not the problem. We cannot have our society degenrate into whoredom, how so ever glorified as "liberation" and "emancipation" . Low charactered women bring downfall to entire societies and nations. There will be disorder all around if likes of her are accepted in the same honorable category as our mothers, sisters , wives and daughters . People who responsibly regulate their sexual urge in way that would not create disorder and misery in society can do better without having such role models for their children. When the sanctity of family and marriage breaks down , chaos ensues in that society and it self-destructs. Society has to be guarded from such examples. |
I certainly wouldn't like to have you as a role model for my child. |
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Nihang
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmicreason wrote: |
*I don't need to convert to anything. I can see what your sanatan dharm has thought you...You are not fit to be accepted as a human being. Because of people like you, that is why many women convert. Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not one of those.
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Cosmic reason,
Loss of women like you to any other religion is no loss to any society. It would only be good that scum leaves on its own , lest the other are corrupted. I don't know where you live and who you are but you and I both know that no decent Hindu family will accept you as their daugther-in-law. Now don't lie about it that you are accepted and even considered honorable. You are a bad role model for any Hindu , Muslim or even Christian parents for their daughters and sons. You have lived a self-willed and irresponsible life with no concern for others. It is because of people like you that family values are dying out and there is so much crime and misery in society. I am sure your parents are in great pain despite whatever facade they might put up for others.
_________________
"Blessed, blessed is the blanket of Krishna." (Sikh Holy Book SGGS, Page 988)
"To fight the oppressor and to defend the meek" (Kashatriya Sanatan Sikh) |
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Nihang
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Read the following verses from Bhagvad Gita, Cosmicreason. They apply to you. Don't pretend that you have not acted against religion. If you do not accept the authority of following scripture, you are not a Hindu. If you still consider yourself a Hindu, then your life has to be spent in repentance and prayer for your transgression.
| Quote: | When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krishna, the women of the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny.
An increase of unwanted population certainly causes hellish life both for the family and for those who destroy the family tradition. The ancestors of such corrupt families fall down, because the performances for offering them food and water are entirely stopped.
By the evil deeds of those who destroy the family tradition and thus give rise to unwanted children, all kinds of community projects and family welfare activities are devastated.
O Krishna, maintainer of the people, I have heard by disciplic succession that those who destroy family traditions dwell always in hell. Bhagvad Gita , (1: 41-46) |
_________________
"Blessed, blessed is the blanket of Krishna." (Sikh Holy Book SGGS, Page 988)
"To fight the oppressor and to defend the meek" (Kashatriya Sanatan Sikh) |
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soy yo
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 296
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Some dose of reality has its place, but this girl has many doses of reality facing her in the future. I admit I don't know a lot about Hindu religion, but that excerpt you posted wasn't much more merciful that things in Islam.
People transgress, and people can make huge mistakes. Calling children "unwanted children" certainly is not helping society, either.
Cosmic is in western society now, I don't know how strict her parents are. However, just because she had this child, doesn't mean all is lost. She has the most difficult decisions of her life ahead of her, and she still has a chance to give her daughter a good life and turn it all around.
There is a big difference between Cosmic and the type who has 4 kids all with different dads, neglect the kids, etc. A free society has drawbacks, like more prevalence of my example just now, but if someone has a time of weakness and makes all the best of the aftermath, goes foreward striving to make it better, she should not be stigmatized, and that is a benefit of this free society.
She seems to have been naive and in love. She most likely didn't comprehend all the religious turmoil that awaited her at that time. Living in Canada, she very well may not have known a lot about Islam when she got involved with this guy. When you are young and in love, those are extremely powerful feelings. While self-control is a virtue and advisable, nobody's perfect.
Cosmic is now in this situation for better or for worse, and it's certainly not our place to be her moral police. She'll get that from her family, his family, her conscience and the consequences of these events in her life. It IS possible for her to provide a secure family life for her daughter.
As for her converting, and allowing the child to be raised Muslim, I don't think that's the best option. Even if he and his family are very moderate, you never know when he or a relative could get overly zealous with dangerous implications. It's ALWAYS ideal for a child to be born into a loving marriage. If she's with this man as a fake convert, or with constant tension with him and his family, the child will have a sense of that too. Growing up in a bad marriage can impair her ability to pick a good mate as much as having no father can. Besides, Cosmic could remarry to a man who adores her AND her daughter, and they both deserve that. She will have to work 10x harder to accomplish raising the girl alone well, but it can be done.
I have heard the phrase "A bad father is better than no father," and I disagree strongly.
Some of what I say is out of my personal experience, judge me how you like. I had my son out of wedlock, and struggled for the 1st 6 months of the pregnancy with the decision whether or not to place him for adoption with a stable family of two parents, for his sake. There were many things going on then, and I made stupid choices to get myself there. When I decided to keep my son, I committed to do the best I can for him, no matter what, and I will do all I can to raise him right with morals, despite his father being gone and my poor example in how he came about. His father, the particular man that he is, would be a detriment to my son, not a benefit. Yes, I was stupid to get involved intimately with someone like that, but sh*t happens, and then you make the best of it and don't repeat it.
Cosmicreason needs compassion from us, not judgements. She does not deserve to give up all possibility of a joyous life because of this.
_________________
"The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother." |
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Piggy
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 835
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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I fully agree with all you have said here Soy Yo.
I was a single-parent for a while with my first child; I understand the need for rational decision-making and the importance of maintaining the child's well-being, continuously, avoiding exposure of the child to ANY danger.
--------------------------------------
CosmicReason,
From what you have said, this guy is a danger to your child!
Simple as that! |
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friend or foe
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:00 am Post subject: Re: URGENT..ADVICE NEEDED.. |
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| Quote: | | My boyfriend is a muslim. I am Hindu. We have one child, she is only 4 months. We live together, because I refuse to do a nikkah. His family are nice to me, but they don't like me because I am hindu and I didn't convert. there are many converts that married into his family. I am the only one that refuses to convert. He hopes or believes that one day I will convert. |
Hi cosmicreason, your story is touching and thanks for bringing it into daylight.
I keep on thinking how did a muslim guy build a family with a non muslim? It is a sign of that he is not extremely religious or wasnt by that time..
How did he act when the baby was born? Did he say shahada to her ear and so on? Does he let you to take the baby to your parents etc?
| Quote: | | I am afraid to let the baby go to his family because I am afriad that they will teach her things..sort of like brainwash her..as he is brainwashed. |
I suppose it is up to the child,... as long as she is in your major guardianship, she will be reasonably fine, but you might have to be careful ...
| Quote: | | He says he believes in Islam..but sometimes he wonders and questions the existence of god.. Sometimes he does things that the quran doesn't agree with..and he feels so much quilt and fear..that I believe that he is the one punishing himself..not god. He lives in a lot of fear..and I can see how much he is hurting himself..because of this religion. I want to help him..but I don't know how.. |
the fear is a familiar element to me, I watch my husband spitting at the devils everyday and he is one freak with his obsessions, I have myself come back to Christianity, my husband is a sunni muslim as well.
| Quote: | | I practice a lot of meditation and yoga..and sometimes he asks me to explain this type of philosophy to him..and he says it makes sense to him..but then he goes right back to the quran and what it says..and I guess he is not allowed to follow anything else because of fear.He gets so confused sometimes.. |
The confusion might be the start. you should keep on creating that to that extent he cannot bear it and leaves islam.
| Quote: | | I want to help him so see the light and the beauty of god and this life..but I don't know how.. |
Show him you enjoy and are happy and not afraid, even you are a non muslim. Show that a person can be a good human being without islam.
| Quote: | | What can I do to protect my child from this? What can I do to help him? because of this religion we cannot have a life of love and freedom..I think he wants to..but he thinks its a sin..and compare what the quran says..its like he can't think for himself..he doesn't know how to.. |
[/quote]
You might need a break. - thinking break.. Your life will be a torture when the chlid becomes older IF your husband doesn't change.
I am very close to sending divorce papers myself. Let's exchange thoughts .. I hope we in FFI are able to give you mental support as much as you need.
kind regards
friend
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- Let the memories live but don't live in them - |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:36 am Post subject: |
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dear Mr. Nihang.. Let us rethink again what you write...
The definition of HINDU... the way you consider HINDU is in question at least in this thread...
with best wishes
yeezevee |
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Brigitte
Joined: 14 Dec 2002
Posts: 283
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Hi cosmicreason,
I am myself mother of 3 girls, a kafira married to a muslim for 25 years now.
I guess a lot of the problems to come depends on where you're living and to which extend your husband (boyfriend, whatever) is really involved in islam. If you live in a free country, you might have a chance to educate your child correctly and freely, as a mother is always the best placed person to do so. You'll have to use some "Takkeya" yourself (pretending, lying, inducing in error as islam permits) towards your childs father and sometimes that will make you feel lonely. I am speaking by my own experience.
But, as your child(ren) gets older and wiser, it will start helping you on your path of freedom. As for me, that was my biggest satisfaction, my daughters standing up against islam, proud ,intelligent and ... free!
If your man is a real die-hard muslim, and/or if you're living in a muslimcountry, I can only give you this advice : take your child and RUN, because you will never be able to be yourself, and your child will grow up to become an islamic product that will even deny you as its mother.
By the way : I loved the way you answered Nihang This guy (I'm sure its a man!) really has got the necessary talent and mind to become a first class islamist!
The way you reacted lets me hope all the best for you in the future, as well as for your child, you don't seem the kind of woman to fall into toal submission!
Brigitte |
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Nihang
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| soy yo wrote: | Some dose of reality has its place, but this girl has many doses of reality facing her in the future. I admit I don't know a lot about Hindu religion, but that excerpt you posted wasn't much more merciful that things in Islam.
People transgress, and people can make huge mistakes. Calling children "unwanted children" certainly is not helping society, either.
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Who says that everything in Islam is bad and all Muslims are totally evil? All religions of the world talk about the need of order and harmony in society. Islam talks about it too even though their prophet himself set examples that would create disorder in society.
You have compassion for the wrong person here. You have no compassion for the child she irresponsibly brought in the world and who, because of her lack of control over her sexual urge, would grow up in a dysfunctional home and never develop values that nurture harmonious families. The child will grow up with a neurosis and lead a selfish life on gross physical plane because that is all she would see in the example of her parents. She would most likely have unhappy , neglected and extremely individialistic children out of wedlock too who would grow up in dysfunctional environment and would never develop any sense of community. If you look at the backgrounds of criminals, most of them have such background. All they learn is selfish living and having concern for their own needs only. They are like that because their parents had lived selfishly and never set the examples of sacrifice, love and social responsibility for them. What would be impact on this girl when she learns that she was born without a harmonius family because her parents could not control their "heat"? Her very birth is in an extremely selfish, irresponsible and hedonistic act and all these values will most likely define her character when she grows up. And consciously or unconsciously she will spread these values in society and add to disorder, irresponsibilty and misery that is already there in society.
Family is the most fundamental building block of the society. It is the first school that a child attends. Parents are our first teachers. When there is no respect for family and when family, the fundamental unit of society, breaks down , the entire society is affected in an adverse way. That is why Hinduism talks about the need guarding and protecting the family tradition. When family breaks, so does the society in equal proportion. Through family tradition flows the accumulated wisdom of ages to next generations. When family traditions are destroyed, so gets destroyed the entire idea of civilization that was embedded into them.
_________________
"Blessed, blessed is the blanket of Krishna." (Sikh Holy Book SGGS, Page 988)
"To fight the oppressor and to defend the meek" (Kashatriya Sanatan Sikh) |
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Unknown 192
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Nihang]
Family is the most fundamental building block of the society. It is the first school that a child attends.[/quote]
I agree with the above statement. However, from the posts of cosmic reason I see that she is willing to uphold the values of family but not the values of Islam and why should she? Her husband is not upholding any hindu values out of respect for her? He wasn't even a muslim until the birth of his child. It is Islam that is breaking up this family by imposing so many requirements. If Islam was not clouding the father's mind, by requiring they have a nikkah, that they only eat halal, that the father's place in heaven is dependant on his kids being Muslim, then this family would be absolutely fine. Nihang, why can u only see it from one persepective, the Muslim male persepective? |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the responses..
I have support from my family, my friends and my community, not to mention some of you here..One person such as Nihang doesn't make a difference to me. I guess Nihang expects me to hang my head in shame and go set myself on fire..as that is what happens in india. Or perhaps I am supposed to feel some sort of guilt..This is what his sanatan dharm has thougt him...I don't have to justify myself to anyone.. |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I believe that Nihang is really a Muslim, posing as a hindu/sikh....From what he has written, sounds a lot like Islam.
Nihang the Hinduism you believe in was invented by men, just like all other religions.. |
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