Faith Freedom International

[muslim4ever]

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and
then asks one of his new students to stand.
"You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?"
"Yes, sir".
"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely".
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good".
"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes".
The professor grins knowingly and considers for a moment.
"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over
here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them?
Would you try ?"
"Yes sir, I would"
"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that".
"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could
in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't."
[No answer]
"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who died of cancer even
though he prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm?
Can you answer that one?"
[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?"
He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time
to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones
"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"




"Er... Yes."




"Is Satan good?"




"No."




"Where does Satan come from?"




The student falters. "From... God..."
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony
fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience.
"I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen".
He turns back to the Muslim. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir".




"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"




"Yes."




"Who created evil?"




[No answer]




"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the
terrible things - do they exist in this world?"
The student squirms on his feet. "Yes".




"Who created them?"




[No answer]




The professor suddenly shouts at his student.
"WHO CREATED THEM TELL ME, PLEASE !"
The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Muslim's face.
In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?"




[No answer]
The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly
the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging
panther. The class is mesmerized.
"Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created
all evil throughout all time?"
The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness
of the world.
"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death
and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over
the world, isn't it, young man?"




[No answer]
"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh? " Pause.
"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers.
"Is God good?"




[No answer]




"Do you believe in God, son?"




The student's voice betrays him and cracks.
"Yes, professor. I do."
The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you
use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you?"
"No, sir. I've never seen Him ."




"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"




"No, sir. I have not."




"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God...in fact,




do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"




[No answer]




"Answer me, please."




"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."




"You're AFRAID..... you haven't?"




"No, sir."




"Yet you still believe in him?"




"...yes..."








"That takes FAITH !" The professor smiles sagely at the underling.
"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science
says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Where is your God now?"




[The student doesn't answer]




"Sit down, please."
The Muslim sits........defeated.








Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"
The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim in the vanguard. Come,
come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering".
The Muslim looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making,
sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."




"Is there such a thing as cold?"




"Yes, son, there's cold too."




"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.
The second Muslim continues
"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white
heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We
can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any
further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be
able to go colder than minus 458. You see, sir, cold is only a word, we
use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can
measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite
of heat, sir, just the absence of it."
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are
you getting at.....?"
"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"




"Yes......"




"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality,
Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and
give mea jar of it.




Can you.......give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him.
This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling
us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start
with and so your conclusion must be in error...."




The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"




"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"




The class is all ears.




"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain
control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class,
for the student to continue
"You are working on the premise of duality," the Muslim explains.




"That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a
bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite,
something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought.
It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully
understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant
of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the
opposite of life, merely the absence of it."
The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor
who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids
this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"
"Of course there is, now look..."
"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.




Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice.
Is there such a thing as evil?"
The Muslim pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"




The professor's face has turned an alarming color.
He is so angry he is temporarily speechless
The Muslim continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we
all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work
through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing?
Islam tells us it is to see if each one of us will, choose good over evil."
The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view this
matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely
do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as
being part of the world equation because God is not observable".
"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this
world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the
Muslim replies.
"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me,
professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"



"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes,
of course I do."




"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"
The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student
a silent, stony stare.
"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work
and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"
"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion.
Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"




"I believe in what is - that's science !"
"Ahh ! SCIENCE !" the student's face splits into a grin.
"Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena.
Science too is a premise which is flawed..."
"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters. The class is in uproar.




The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has subsided.




"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may
I give you an example of what I mean?" The professor wisely keeps silent.
The Muslim looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?"
The class breaks out in laughter. The Muslim points towards his elderly,
crumbling tutor.
"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?"
No one appears to have done so. The Muslim shakes his head sadly.
"It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's
brain whatsoever.
Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol,
science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain".
The class is in chaos. The Muslim sits... Because that is what a chair is for.
HAVE A NICE DAY:)
http://www.answering-falsehood.com/IntroductiontoAtheism.html

[chooonz]

aghfghfgh

[hinduwoman]

the Professor's brain argument is a silly one.

You can dissect his brain and find out the grey matter and nerves there. Perceptually therefore the Professor's brain exists.
Gabriel speaking to Muhammad --- that is something our perceptions can not verify.

Obviously the writer has no idea about what contitutes material evidence.
_________________
May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor.

[rand]

Let's summarize and critique what was said:

1. Professor explains how there is satan, natural disasters, evil, suffering, so if there is an all powerful God, He must have created evil.
2. Since we can't perceive God with our senses God does not exist.

The answers

1. There is duality, evil is the absence of good. This is a false statement. It is good to give charity, to not give charity is not evil. To torture people is evil, to not torture people is not good. Further, the koran/hadith emphasizes duality. Hell is not the absence of virgins, but it is fire. The koran has duality by emphasizing believers vs. non-believers, hell and heaven.
Further, when thousands suffer from a natural disaster, what is that an absence of?

2. Since scientists who are generally wrong believe in unperceivable things, that may or may not exist, therefore when muslims believe in a non-perceivable being, that being must exist.

This story was interesting in how it emphasized how a muslim can debate a brilliant professor and win. Which makes one wonder, why in real-life do they insulate muslims, and prefer to not debate professors.

[roshan]

[rand]

If they truly understood natural disasters, they would be able to predict future natural disasters.

[hinduwoman]

Well, they would have to search where lots of sodomy is going on. But how much sodomy would bring down the punishment?
_________________
May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor.

[masadi]

Hi everyone

This is a one-time posting on this forum

The more we advance on the road to science in all directions, micro and macro, the arguments in favor of an intelligent designer become increasingly eloquent. The origin of the "laws" of nature and the precise values of the "constants" necessitate intelligent design. The precision in the "mix" of constants that were necessary preconditions for the universe to evolve and for life to emerge provide mathematical evidence in support of the "God" hypothesis. The odds of obtaining these "constants" without putting "intelligent design" in the equation is one out of 10,000,000 to the power 124. To see how impossible it is, compare this number to the total amount of subatomic particles in the whole universe, which has been calculated to be 10 to the power 80 (Hoyle, Wickramasinge 1985).

Given the exact "mix" of these "constants", we can logically deduce from inductive premises that they were "intelligently" set by one source, i.e. one God. The "oneness" of this source is observed by the uniformity in the workings of these laws of nature all through the universe, the common origin of everything in the universe and the blueprint of life all across the species.

Faced with such scientific evidence, justice demands that we acknowledge the creator. These facts make clear the assertion that Atheism is a "faith" based religion, with blind "belief" in nature as the "deity" to be evoked as an excuse for every "cause" that cannot be empirically explained. In this age of science, God is a fact.


M. Asadi

[rand]

I have a few problems with the intelligent design argument:

1. If the world is extremely complex and cannot be created at random, then how was its creator who is also extremely complex created? You solve the complex issue of creation, which has a possible answer (evolution/science) with how was god created, which I don't know how to answer. And if you want to say that God always existed, you can say the same about the universe.

2. The intelligent design argument demonstrates that there was a creator. It does not demonstrate that God communicates with people, that God is merciful, that God still exists, that god pays attention to the universe, that God wants to be worshipped, that there is a heaven and hell, etc.

3. People have worshipped Judaism, Christianity, Islam, paganism, etc., the argument from design does not indicate that Islam is the correct religion.

4. Richard Elliott Friedman in his commentary on the Torah wrote about the book of Genesis: "Attempts to
reconcile this seven-day creation story with evolution and geological and cosmological evidence of the age of the universe are absurd. Arguments over whether the the biblical or the scientific picture is correct is pointless. Of course the biblical picture is not a factual, literal account of the universe's origin. The evidence to this is overwhelming. "
I'll leave it to others to determine whether the koranic creation account is reasonable.

5. Since there are many potential religions, it is clear that most or possibly all religions are false. So therefore we need to critically evaluate Islam to determine whether it is the true religion, otherwise we could worship a false religion.

[hinduwoman]

Rand, this was masadi's one-post shot. so your eloquence was wasted.
_________________
May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor.

[rand]

Thanks. If I don't believe in the true religion of islam, I could burn in hell. Is it possible that compassionate Muslims who have diligently studied the brilliant quran by the all-knowing Allah, do not have an answer to these issues or that they have an answers but would allow me to go astray?
Be patient.

[atheist]

(contd from before muslim4ever)

[ExHindu]

muslim4ever,
That same short story can be used to defend Christianity too. Nothing great about it.
So in another words, it proves nothing.

masadi,
So what if it all those mega numbers you quote point to a God.......it sure aint gonna be Allah (that moon God of pagan Arabs now claimed to be the same as the Biblical God).

Islam cannot survive without apologists,
Islam cannot survive scientific scrutiny
Islam cannot survive open debate
Islam cannot survive in a free environment.

You can refute me all you want but let me tell you one thing.....if Saudi Arabia opens her doors to freedom of religion today, tomorrow there will not be MUslims there except the stupid mullahs.

ExHindu
_________________
So called Prophet Muhammad was a Child Molester, War Criminal, Caravan Raider, Rapist and Bloodthirsty Power Hungry Monster. Don't follow him for Hell awaits those foolish enough to be his follower.