Faith Freedom International

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear all,

It makes me very sad when reading about other people’s bad experiences of Islam on Testimonials of Those Leaving Islam

These stories from real life are telling about the reality of the various “Islamic” religions that is more terrifying than any manuscript for horror films. Only horrors in the history of many other religions, like Christianity, may be worse.

What is so tragic in connection to this is that it is all blamed on Islam.

Islam is not a trade mark; it is an Arabic expression for belief in, acceptance of and submission to a higher power of the Universe.

Muhammad is NOT the founder of Islam, but a simple messenger relaying a repetition of the message from God, or whatever you prefer to call the power, or intelligence, of the Universe.

The Qur’an is NOT a holy book to be chanted, in Arabic; it is a guidebook for human beings to be read, understood and followed.

What has happened is that, from the earliest date, the message from God has been twisted and miss-interpreted by power hungry individuals in order to construct, and control, various religions, complete with rituals and laws etc., as they deemed fit.
It is tragic, but understandable.

However, it is really good to see that more and more people are now questioning the authenticity claimed by the various sects of all religions.
Traditional Muslims are also beginning to question the accepted translations of the verses of the Qur’an, and trying to find back to the original meaning.

Personally, I believe that if Muhammad came back today and was placed in the midst of a glorious mosque, and after observing the various actions, and behavior, he would probably ask: “But, where can I find Islam and the Muslims?”

Islam is in the “hot seat” at the moment due to the extreme lack of knowledge within the communities of the various sects, claiming to be “Islamic”.
The media is mentioning “Islam” and “terror” in the same breath. This is completely ridiculous.
You can not say an “Islamic terrorist”. The meanings of the words are totally opposite of each other. It is like saying a “God-loving Satan”.

However, Islam does no longer mean what it originally did, it has become a brand name synonymous with hate, violence, destruction, poverty, suppression, cheating, lying, stealing, killing, illiteracy and so on……..

So, actually, the media is not far off target. The ones who are way, way, off target are us, the Muslims. We should, therefore, stop blaming others, like the media, “the terrible Americans”, or “the West” and start blaming ourselves.

Actually, we are responsible for the mess and should be the ones to clean up.

I know, some of us are trying, but sometimes it feels like a hopelessly large task.
We have to change minds formed by group-manipulations of truths over more than a thousand years.

Any ideas?

Ali Omar

rand · Joined: 28 Jul 2002 Posts: 1752

Dear Ali Omar,

Welcome to the forum!
Your thess seems to be that the Quran is a wonderful guide book, and had muslims followed the guidebook, they would be living a wonderful life, unfortunately muslims have been misinterpreting/not following the true Islam.
Many of us on this site, believe that the Quran (and also the hadith) is a very poor guidebook. I think such a debate over whether the Quran is a wonderful guidebook is important, since if it is you can clarify many of our misunderstandings of the book. And if it is not, then why should you or anyone else want to follow it.

Below are areas that we could discuss:
1. Quran's treatment of non-believers.
2. Quran's view of a just society
3. Quran's treatment of women.
4. Quran's view on being open-minded
5. Quran's view on slavery
6. Quran's view on war.

Best regards,
Rand

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Dear rand,

adnan · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:58 am Post subject:

Ali Omar

rand · Joined: 28 Jul 2002 Posts: 1752

Catnip wrote:

syamal · Joined: 08 Nov 2002 Posts: 388

soy yo · Joined: 05 Oct 2002 Posts: 296

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear soy yo,

Thank you for your comments. You have a very nice way of making a point.
I have read many stories about bad behavior of Muslims, but it was actually after reading your article that I posted my topic.

I try to make anybody I come in touch with understand that Islam is not a name, it is just an Arabic expression saying that you should understand, and believe, that there is an intelligence or power, far greater than anything else, “in charge of the Universe”, and setting the rules for all creations. You may call it God, or Allah or the Intelligence of the Universe or anything else.

This Islam is not screwed up, but all the various religions claiming to be Islam is absolutely and totally screwed up. No doubt about it at all.
And, mind you, not only the practices claiming to be Islamic is screwed up, look into any, and all, other groupings calling themselves religions.
Why God allowed it to happen is a mystery to me too, but instead of wondering why this is so, I am trying to find out how to do my bit to rectify it.

I wish I could tell you of somebody you could go to for guidance, to tell you what is right and what is wrong, but I am sorry, I can not.
The only thing we are left with is a book that claims to hold all the detailed guidance you need.
However, the real secrets of this book have been well hidden by the “authorities” of the “Islamic” religions. Instead you will be given the truths as manufactured by the various imams, mullas and other “scholars”.
As far as I know, nobody other than their own buddies has given them any authority whatsoever. They have their own “universities” and other teaching institutions to “qualify” them. If it were not so tragic, it would be really laughable, how stupid and easily fooled, we, the human beings can actually be.

You are right, if I went around talking like this, my length would probably be exactly one head-height shorter. Some have tried and got that exact experience. And mind you, not only in the “Islamic” religion.

I believe the authority is given to each and every one of us, as stated in the Qur’an. We are told that we are only responsible for our own actions and can not plead on behalf of others, or blame others for our own mistakes. Therefore, if we ask others to guide us, and we follow that guidance, we are still responsible for ourselves, and can not blame the guides if they made some mistakes.

It is difficult, but quite possible, to find the guidance from the Quran. Only, forget everything you have been told about religion first, and find the real meaning in the verses, not colored by translators or interpreters. Like I said, tricky, but possible.

Your story about a math class was a real good one, and very descriptive of our present state, with a Qur’an that is twisted and turned into something ridiculous.
Hopefully, not all the students will fail in our case, but the Qur’an says that most of them do not understand.

Lastly, everything above must be taken as my personal conviction and not as “eternal and infallible truths”, and I will eventually have to answer for it to God.

Best regards

Ali Omar

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear syamal,

It is good to hear that you regard rendering your services to mankind as a most important factor in life.
This is also, exactly what God tells us in the Qur’an.
As I have already stated that I do believe the Qur’an is our best guidebook to a proper way of life, how can I disagree with you?
Mind you, not the popular understanding of the Qur’an explained to us by, so called, experts, but the real underlying meaning of it.

I also do not see anything wrong with regarding other people beside the prophets as important guides in your life. I find that to be very true and of great help.
I do, however, understand by prophet, or messenger, someone who is guided by the Intelligence of the Universe, or God, if you will. Therefore I tend to see them differently.

Best regards

Ali Omar

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear Adnan,

Thank you for the idea to participate on “Testimonials of Those Leaving Islam”, I just thought that as I have no urgency to leave Islam, my comments would not fit in there. But I will try to follow up there as well.

The only proof I can find about Muhammad being a messenger is the various verses in the Qur’an. Not what the verses say about Muhammad, but what I understand from the Qur’an as a whole.
To me, Muhammad is just a go-between that only had the task of delivering the Qur’an to mankind. Therefore I do not concern myself too much with the messenger, what I am interested in is the message. It is like when the postman comes to your house to deliver a letter, what is important to you is the letter, not the postman. (Well it all depends on the postman/woman??? No really, jokes aside.)

I have obviously missed something. Please enlighten on “Mohammed order to kill Apostates” and he said "There is a Jew behind that tree, Kill him". Where do I find it?

Concerning your question about Hellfire I use the same answer that I gave you in Opposing Views on Islam.

Best regards

Ali Omar

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear rand and Catnip,

What can I say?

Thank you for giving me a chance.

I will do my best not to disappoint you.

Best regards

Ali Omar

adnan · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:54 am Post subject:

Ali Omar

soy yo · Joined: 05 Oct 2002 Posts: 296

Thanks, Mr Omar. You clearly are a good man who is concerned with what is right and wrong. I can see that. While you still choose to find spritual guidance in the context of Islam and Quran, (both a name AND a descriptive word) I reject the Quran, Muhammed, and chose a different way. (I'm taking another class, at a different school Wink

)
I have no argument to make with anyone who strives towards goodness and serves God by serving his fellow man, on any terms.
I am a little confused, though. Do you consider yourself a Muslim, or are you searching for your own way? I get the impression that you are a born Muslim who is still spiritual and beleiving in God, but in your own way. You are not part of the establishment called "Islam," per-se. Am I way off?
_________________
"The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother."

soy yo · Joined: 05 Oct 2002 Posts: 296

Also, if this quote of yours were thought to be true by all Muslims,

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear Adnan,

I am just trying to post my comments under the correct forums.

Yes, you are right, if these sayings are from the Hadiths then, I am sorry; to me it is as good as fairy tales.

You may think you know the character of a messenger, through his reputation, but even the worst liar and cheat can surprise you.

The only way to know is to study the message, and if possible, verify it. The verification can be a very tricky business at times, but if you have some idea about the author’s goals and aims, it helps.
But in any case, you have to test and try the message any way you can. The Qur’an itself actually tells us that we should do that and not accept anything blindly.

I really hope the messages of the Qur’an are from God, but I am continuously trying the various parts of it, in order to satisfy my own curiosity.
So far, I have found so many things that sound right, that I believe in it.
But, every time I try to read and understand, I find new things, so the search goes on.

Best regards

Ali Omar

adnan · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:09 pm Post subject:

Ali omar,

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear soy yo,

Thank you for your reply.

Well, first of all, I do not consider Islam and the Qur’an to be the only way leading to the goal. As I have said somewhere else in one post, I consider individuals like Mother Theresa to be first in line to be accepted in the end, not because of her group-belonging but because of her “way of life” or “way of conduct”.

I do consider myself a submitter to the will of God, or, in Arabic transliteration, a Muslim, and I find the best guidance, for me, in the Qur’an, but, again, not the twisted and messed up understanding that is traditionally accepted as the truth. I am trying, as best I can, to go beyond that.

As for:

Islam is not a trade mark; it is an Arabic expression for belief in, acceptance of and submission to a higher power of the Universe.

If you do not follow this, you are not a Muslim. It is as simple as that.

Therefore, the expression: “Muslim terrorist”, very commonly used in media and amongst people in general, is totally ridiculous. It is like saying “a humble, loving and caring Satan”.
In this case you are either a Muslim, or you are a terrorist. A terrorist being a common criminal, whatever shield he, or she, is hiding under.

Best regards

Ali Omar

soy yo · Joined: 05 Oct 2002 Posts: 296

Ali, have you ever looked into the possibility that what you are looking for is somewhere else besides in the Quran or "Islam?" Perhaps branching out in your studies would be good for you.
_________________
"The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother."

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear soy yo,

Thak you for the suggestions.

I can assure you that I have been looking into many different faiths, both God-related and Satanist-related.
So, far I have found a belief in God to be “my table”, and I am using the Quran as my main guide. I do have a fairly good knowledge of the Bible and also some knowledge of the Torah and the Vedic verses among other scriptures.

Best regards

Ali Omar

yeezevee · Joined: 20 May 2002 Posts: 2300

Curious to know your opinion Ali Omar
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=9&section=0&article=21191&d=19&m=12&y=2002
Legacy of a Prophet: The story behind the movie
By a Unity Productions staffer

Unknown 183 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 137

Dear yeezevee,

After realizing who is involved, my opinion of such a project is, very simply, “waste of time and energy”.

By the way, see my post on Opposing Views of Islam.

Best regards

Ali Omar

adnan · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:19 pm Post subject: