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Faith Freedom International
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-wife-beating-hadith.htm lists some hadith on wife-beating.
| Quote: | | "Umar reported the prophet as saying: "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife". (Hadith Of The Sunan Of Abu Dawud, Chapter 709 - On Beating Women, #2142) |
| Quote: | | "Iyas Dhubab reported the apostle of Allah as saying: "Do not beat Allah's handmaidens", but when Umar came to the apostle of Allah and said: "Women have become emboldened towards their husbands", he (the prophet), gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the apostle of Allah complaining against their husbands. So the apostle of Allah said, "Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you". (Hadith Of The Sunan Of Abu Dawud, Chapter 709 - On Beating Women, #2141) |
If a husband happens to be a violent person, the koran seems to be encouraging such behavior and the hadith seem to work to protect the husband from the authorities.
Best wishes,
Rand |
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Unknown 112
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care if that is your teaching. I guess I'm not saying you're in America, either, but if you are, the point is, it is illegal and you can be sentenced for it. Just like the Mormons and polygamy.
Otherwise, it is just plain wrong. I am far from saying that all Muslims are like this, as I have not known many. But in case I am wrong in saying that all Muslims aren't like this, how can you even condone a religion that promotes the mistreating of others?
Don't you care about your wife? If you married her, then you love her, right? And you don't beat the ones you love. If you can beat someone and tell them that you love them, then that is a lie.
Of course, your definition of "love" might be entirely different.
Quite frankly, I am sick of the way people treat one another. I mean everyone, and not just you. People beat one another, torture one another with both words and physical retaliations. People are mean and are generally out to kill each other, and most think of it as a problem. But does anyone do anything about it? No.
After having come from an abusive household, I can tell you that there is no excuse to beat anyone for reasons other than self-defence. And I really doubt if your wife is trying to kill you. If she did, then maybe it would be another story.
But... that attitude... of wrongly justifying yourself and not taking into account your own wrong attitudes and misdeeds is just stupid. And everyone pays for it, sooner or later.
Oh, and please allow me to correct your grammar. It is properly spelled "woman" if you are talking about one female. If you are talking about more than one, then it becomes "women." |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Abudosama : ..When to Beat A Women.. |
| Quote: | | Minstelae: .... Oh, and please allow me to correct your grammar. It is properly spelled "woman" if you are talking about one female. If you are talking about more than one, then it becomes "women." |
dear Minstelae, greetings, Abudosama may be right when he says "When to Beat A Women" Many Mohammadonians including Mr. Prophet, only deal with "Women" Not with "Woman", My man had 13 of them in 13 years at the fag end of his life...
with regards
yeezevee |
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Unknown 112
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. Although... if he were talking about women plural, then he should not have used the word "a" in front of it.
Anywho...
Man, that must have been harsh. I'd hate to be a woman in a relationship or marriage with a polygamous man. |
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Abudosama
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 286
Location: Islamabad
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Dear Sister in Humanity NINA
السلام وعليكم Peace be on to you
| Quote: |
Nevertheless, your religion is very dangerous for women, because it encourages men to beat and torture them when they live according to their own opinion, or have an opinion that contradicts your sexist religion. |
Sex is by default an animal instinctive behavior for productivity; and they only do it when it require, man being most of the instinctive behavior like animal is also subjected to this, but differently, Men and woman need not to have sex once a year, they have liberty to perform this act according to their desire and psycho-physical health to pacify themselves from the misery of life. Let me assure you that my religion is not as sexist as you think.
Like all pairs Human being are also paired Masculine ale & Feminine.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab- Ch: 4 V:1 ) O mankind be careful of (your duty to) your Lord (of The Universe), Who created you (male) from a single (feminine) being, and from her created her pair, and spread from both of them, many men and women; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you. |
Only the Feminine has productive capability.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab- Ch: 2 V:223 ) Your women are field of productivity for you, so go into your field when you like, and do well beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers. |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab- Ch: 7 V:189 ) He it is Who created you (male) from a single (feminine) being, and from her created her pair, that he appeases her; so when he covers her she bears a light burden, then moves about with it; but when it grows heavy, they both call upon Allah, their Lord: If You (Allah) give us a good one, we shall certainly be of the grateful ones. |
Sex has nothing to do with religion. Like other human being the people who are accepted this religion do have sexual desire like others, but in Islam it is a controlled one, a Muslim is only allow to have sex with his legal wife(s) only. A Muslim must not behave like a dog running around for every smelling bitch if he does then he is not Muslim, whatever his name is, or he has a scar of prayer on his forehead. He is Al-Munkir (the one who reject law) and Al-Kafir (the one who act against law) of the Ayaats of Allah. And Al-Mushrik are the one who accept others law after rejecting the law of Allah, even if they do not accept Allah. So you people are Musrik because you listen the philosophy of Ali Sina for you he is single Principal.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab- Ch: 17 V: 32 ) And you should not do illegal sex; surely it is an indecency and an evil way. |
Your society is full of sex and following the Christianity:
[color=red ACCORDING TO GOOD NEWS BIBLE JEWS & CHRISTIANS FAITH. [/color]
ALCOHOL.
| Quote: | | PROVERBS 31:6-7- Alcohol is for people who are dying, for those who are in misery. Let them drink and forget their poverty and unhappiness. |
FAHISHA/NUDITY:
| Quote: | 1SAMUEL 19:24- Saul stripped off his clothes and lay down naked all that day and all that night.
ISAIAH 20:3-My servant Isaiah has been going about naked and barefoot for three years.
ISAIAH 20:47- Young and old, they will walk barefoot and naked with their buttocks exposed. |
FAHISHA/ADULTERY:
| Quote: | JUDGES 16:1- Samson has sex with a whore in Gaza.
RUTH 3:4-15- Ruth cohabits with boaz in the barn .
EZEKIEL 23:1-49- Whoredoms of the two Sisters Oholah and Oholibah. |
FAHISHA/INCEST
| Quote: | LEVITICUS 18:6-24- What all are incest according to JEWS & CHRISTIANS FAITH.
GENESIS 38:15-18- Incest between Father-In-law (Judah) and daughter-In-law (Tamar).
GENESIS 35:22- Incest between Mother (Bilhah) and son (Reuben).
GENESIS 9:21-And he (Noah) drank of the wine and he lay naked.
GENESIS 19:34-36-The elder daughter said to her sister, "Our father (Lot) is getting old, and there are no men in the whole world to marry us so that we can have children. Come on, let's make our father drunk, so that we can sleep with him and have children by him". That night they gave him wine to drink, and the elder daughter had intercourse with him. But he was so drunk that he didn't know it.
The next day the elder daughter said to her sister, "I slept with him last night; now let's make him drunk again tonight, and you sleep with him then each of us will have a child by our father (Lot)".
So that night they made him drunk and the younger daughter had intercourse with him. Again he was so drunk that he didn't know it. In this way both of Lot' daughters became pregnant by their own father.
2 SAMUEL 11:4,5- And David sent messengers to fetch her (Bath sheeba), they brought her to him and he made love (intercourse) to her. Then she went back home. Afterwards she discovered that she was pregnant and sent a message to David to tell him.
2 SAMUEL 11:6-25- David wickedly caused the death of Uriah, the husband of Bath sheeba.
2 SAMUEL 16:22- So they set up a tent for (Absalom David's son) on the palace roof, and in the sight of every one Absalom went in and had intercourse with his Father's concubines.
2 SAMUEL 13:4- But he (Amnon David's another son) would not listen to her sister (Tamar) and since he was stronger than she was, he overpowered her and raped her. |
Please show me a nude beach, or offing web site of (9 to 12 years) Muslim girls who act or behave like a prostitute may be from brothel house or from a so-called decent family. This nudity is from Shaitan (Angry personality) who inculcates evasive behavior in human being.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:18, V:50 ) And when We (Lord of the Universe) told the angels (Obliging personality): Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance except Iblees (desperate personality) . He is among jinn, so he transgressed the commandment of his Lord. Do you (Children of Adam) you take him and his offspring Auliaa (the commanders) rather than Me, and they are your enemies? Evil is (this) change for the unjust. |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:7, V:27 ) O children of Adam! Let not the Shaitan cause allure you, as he did with you parents, and allured them to remove their cloths and showed them their places of sin, and caused their expulsion from the Garden. He as well as his tribe watches you and you can not watch them, Surely We (Lord of the Universe) have made the Shaitans Auliaa (the commanders) of those who do not believe. |
You are probably ignorant like most of western people that society-ethics are different and Islamic-ethics are different. Islamic ethics and opposite to it, satanic evasiveness have been by default placed in human brain by the Lord of the Universe ( or according to you people nature).
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:91, V:7-10 ) And conscious, and He (Lord) completed it; And placed in it, its destructiveness and positive ness. Truly he succeeds who purifies its (conscious). And he fails who corrupts its (conscious). |
The internal evasive behavior, allures human being to divert from ethics, is due to lack of guidance. Because of surrounding or environment, this evasive behavior either gets clearer or become more evasive. This lack of guidance (DO and Do not) is dangerous for human being it enlarges animal behavior.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:2, V:38 ) We (lord of the Universe) said: Get down from this (garden you) all (Not Adam and his female but all); so surely there will come to you a guidance ( not guidance(s)) from Me(lord of the Universe), then whoever follows My guidance, no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve. |
Every loving parent always advise, guide, admonish, reward or punish their child, in order to become useful person of society. For this they get guidance from their experience (past from their parents, relatives and society). No parents will like to kill his child being disobedient but they will keep on advising the child so that he/she should become pride for family, In Muslim society only 5 to 10 % youth leave their parents on the other hand in western society the ratio is 80 to 95%.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:11, V:42 ) And it moved on with them amid waves like mountains; and Nuh called out to his son, and he was aloof: O my son! Embark with us (on the ark) and be not with the unbelievers. |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:11, V:43 ) He said: I will betake myself for refuge to a mountain that shall protect me from the water. Nuh said: There is no protector today from Allah's punishment but He Who has mercy; and a wave intervened between them, so he was of the drowned. |
| Quote: |
and no one would help me, because the Islamic law granted you the right to abuse me.
I, for example, would have been beaten by someone like you if we were married, Worse, according to islam I already would have been whipped, tortured and stoned to death before you personally could have laid a hand on me. |
Why should you be beaten, unnecessarily if you had married to a Muslim, Who follows the Book of Allah, not the books other than Allah (Man written books)? Surely you have been hammered wrong concepts in your mind, today I learned from my friend who visited Czechoslovakia informed me that the ratio of maltreating wives in this western country is almost 80%, I have to believe him sine he served their for 20 years. Well that is it. So the beating a woman do not have religious support, this is an individual or society torment. More over have you read these somewhere? Are you Christian or Ex- Christian ?
| Quote: | MATHEW 23:33- You snakes and sons of snakes!
MATHEW 23:13- You hypocrites!
MATHEW 12:39- How evil and godless are the people of this day!
LUKE 12:51- Do you suppose that I came to bring peace to the world? No, not peace, but division.
LUKE 12:49- I came to set the earth on fire. And how I wish it were already kindled!
NUMBERS 31:17-18- So, now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins.
LEVITICUS 25:46- And you may leave them as an inheritance to your sons, whom they must serve as long as they live.
1 CORNITHIANS 13:34-35- The women should keep quiet in the meetings. They are not allowed to speak; at the Jewish law says, they must not be in charge. If they want to find out about some thing, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgraceful thing for a woman to speak in church.
LUKE 14:26- Whoever comes to me cannot be my disciple unless he loves me more than he loves his father and his mother, his wife and his children, his brothers and his sisters, and himself as well.
LUKE 19:27- Now, as for those enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king, bring them here and kill them in my presence |
Well according to My religion Islam, the Man and women are equally responsible for a crime. This is written in Al-Kitaab :-
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:05, V:38 ) As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power. |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:24, V:02 ) Flog, Al-Zaniah ( The fornicatress) and Al-Zani (The fornicator), each of them, hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a group of believers witness their chastisement. |
| Quote: | | And I'm not a criminal, nor a violent person; I never fight or abuse people. Women like me have to be exterminated violently; otherwise a men-favoring religion like Islam wouldn't exist very long. |
Self conceived ideas or the philosophy of forefather have wrong ending you call your self peaceful Women and you are afraid. You call Islam a men favoring religion . Have you ever read Al-Kitaab, I believe what I have studied and some time I tell my wife that ladies are extra ordinary privileges in Islam, all bindings are for men. And on the day of judgment the men will have very tough test. If you just confine to Al-Kitaab and don’t read a single word of Man written books written by IRANI
Writers 1200 years back eg, Tibiri (Tibristaan) Bukhari(Bukhara) Muslim(Neshapore), Abu-Daud(Seestan), Nisaie(Khurasan), Tirmazi(Tirmaz) , Ibn-e-Maja(Qazveen) Non Arab living northern side of Euphrates. And I presume that Arabs were so illiterate that they could not compile the so called saying of Muhammad bin Abdullah, They left it on Ajamies to whom they thrashed thoroughly during various crown wars (not Jehad) . Just ask from your Messenger Ali Sina, what emotions he has about his father who use to beat his loving mother?
| Quote: | | Dear Abudosuma, I'm glad that you gave your wife the right to divorce. Because islamic law does not give women that right, only men have the right to divorce, or better, to repudiate their wives. They can repudiate their wife when they are in love with someone else, but they also can marry the other wife, and even take up to four fresh new wives. |
This is also showing your prejudice attitude toward Muslims. Research my dear sister in Humanity the rate of divorce in western country and Muslim country. You will find who get bore from his mate to whom he loved in youth and after 10 years they reject each other and get divorce.
Islamic Law do give right of divorce to women too, who told you that it does not?
Please tell me what are the causes of divorce in your society? LOVE OR CARING OF EACH OTHER’s OR EVASIVE BEHAVIOUR OFANY ONE AMONG COUPLE.
| Quote: | | And the wives can't do a thing about it, no matter how unhappy they are about it. Although men can do as they please - repudiate, take as many wives as they please as long as the number does not exceed four - wives are not allowed to leave their husband. |
Your concept of marrying four fresh wives is also incorrect, Read these:
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:4, V:3 ) And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such (orphan) women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one (orphan women) or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course (in doing justice with orphans). |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:4, V:19 ) O you who believe! it is not Halall (lawful: It is Haraam) for you that you should take women as heritage against (their) will, and do not strain them (for taking divorce), In order that you may take part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency, and treat them kindly; then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it. |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:4, V:20 ) And if you wish to have (one) wife in place of another (by divorcing first) and you have given one of them a heap of gold, then take not from it anything; would you take it by slandering (her) and (doing her) manifest wrong? |
Marriage according to Al-Kitaab is a bi-lateral contract, either of the partner can break it under certain conditions. The one who get divorce will have to pay penalty.
If Men give divorce he is not allowed to get all, what he has given to women. Allah has compelled men to give divorce, under following conditions.
1) If man marry a women but he is impotent. (Al-Kitaab C:33, V:49 )
2) If woman has become rejecter. . (Al-Kitaab C:60, V:10 )
3) If women has done Al-Zinah (sex with other than her husband) . . (Al-Kitaab C:24, V:3)
4) If Woman desire worldly life and its adornment (to be called only one wife of her husband). (Al-Kitaab C:33, V:28 )
Woman can also get divorce:-
5) If Women seek divorce from her husband, by giving her part of wealth she got from him. (Al-Kitaab C:2, V:229 ) | Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:2, V:229-230 ) Divorce may be (pronounced) twice, then keep (them) in good fellowship or let (them) go with kindness; and it is not Halall (lawful: It is Haraam) for you to take any part of what you have given them(women), unless both fear that they (husband and wife) cannot keep within the limits of Allah; then if you (court) fear that they (husband and wife) cannot keep within the limits of Allah, there is no blame on them(husband and wife) for what she gives up to become free thereby. These are the limits of Allah, so do not exceed them and whoever exceeds the limits of Allah these it is that are the unjust. |
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:2, V:230 ) So if he (husband) divorces her (after getting any part of what he has given to his wife) she shall not be lawful to him afterwards until she marries another husband; then if he divorces her (under four conditions mentioned above or after getting any part of what he has given to his wife) there is no blame on them both if they return to each other (by marriage), if they think that they can keep within the limits of Allah, and these are the limits of Allah which He makes clear for a people who know. |
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Dear Abudosama,
Does this mean that in Islamic countries being pregnant is considered to be just as criminal, despicable and dangerous as Timothy McVeigh is in the USA? I mean, in the USA you receive death penalty for a mass murderous, terrorist act, in many Islamic countries women are tortured to death by stoning because they are pregnant. |
Stoning to death is not in Islam, Death for indecent sexual act is in Jewish and Christianity for both man and woman.
| Quote: | NUMBERS 31:17-18: So, now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins.
LEVITICUS 20: 10, DEATH to both, If sex done with married women.
LEVITICUS 20: 11, DEATH to both, If sex done with one of his fathers wife. (
How many wives do JEWS & CHRISTIANS have according to their Gods commandments?)
LEVITICUS 20: 12, DEATH to both, If sex done with daughter in Law.
LEVITICUS 20: 13, DEATH to both, If sex done with other Man .
LEVITICUS 20: 14, BURN THEM: If sex done with mother in Law.
LEVITICUS 20: 15, DEATH to both, If sex man does with an animal.
LEVITICUS 20: 16, DEATH to both, If sex woman does with an animal.
How an excellent justice, sine animal also desire for it?
LEVITICUS 20: 17, PUBLICALLY DISGRACE AND DRIVE OUT OF COMMUNITY, I f sex if man marries his sister or half sister,
LEVITICUS 20: 18, PUBLICALLY DISGRACE AND DRIVE OUT OF COMMUNITY, I f sex is done with woman during her monthly period.
LEVITICUS 20: 19, Suffering the consequences , I f sex is done with aunt.
LEVITICUS 20: 20, Penalty, will have no children, I f sex is done with uncle’s wife.
LEVITICUS 20: 21, Penalty, will have no children, I f sex is done with brother’s wife. |
If above Jewish and Christian law is enforced in its true letter and spirit, for above 12 sex crimes, I believe 80% west will wipe off from land,
But if Islamic law is enforced no one will die due to 100 stripes.
Oh! Can you tell me with the help of your aids. what is the punishment written in Kitaab Allah for following crime?
1) If sex done with other Man .
2) If sex man does with an animal.
3) If sex woman does with an animal.
abudosama |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Dear Abudosama,
I do not understand how the bible is relevant. Your logic seems to be that since the quran differs from the bible, and the bible seems to be wrong, therefore the quran must be right.
With similar logic, I can show how western law differs from the bible, the bible seems to be wrong, therefore western law must be right.
And with both of these I can demonstrate that western law = quranic law, which is generally not true.
Islam sometimes agrees with the bible and sometimes disagrees. Either way, muslims cite this as evidence that the quran must be correct. That is a logical fallacy.
Best wishes,
Rand |
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Kafira
Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 261
Location: Somewhere in the USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Like other human being the people who are accepted this religion do have sexual desire like others, but in Islam it is a controlled one, a Muslim is only allow to have sex with his legal wife(s) only. |
Wrong.
In the Koran permission is given to have sex with female captives-- which is technically rape, not sex-- and slaves a man owns, also possible rapes, depending on the woman's willingness. The prophet and his companions had so many opportunities to have sex with so many different women, that the totals are staggering by today's standards. Let's look at the royal family, shall we?
For example:
Muhammad had at least 11 wives (including a child) and an Egyptian concubine;
Ali Ibn Abi Talib (cousin of Muhammad) married 10 women plus 10 concubines and maid-slaves for a total of 29;
And last but not least 
Al-Hasan Ibn Ali (grandson of Muhammad and called by the Prophet “the master of the youth of Paradise”) married 70 women (and was said to sometimes divorce two women in a day!). This man was absolutely sick. You'd be hard pressed to find an individual as depraved as Hasan among the non-Muslims of today. He made a mockery out of the idea of marriage by sheer volume alone.
This practice continues even to this day, or do you think that non-Muslims do not know what's going on? I personally know that Muslims take on an additional wife every time they want to have an affair with a woman. Technically, they want to be able to say that they did not commit adultery. Just like Hasan, they divorce the so-called "wife" as soon as the affair is over.
Muslims complaining about sexual immorality in the West fall into the proverbial category of the pot calling the kettle black.
_________________
ISLAM: ASSORTED STORIES AND ADVICE BROUGHT TO YOU BY A LUNATIC. |
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CroMagnon
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2112
Location: West Kafiristan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Inspired by Al-Kitaab:
. How to beat the wife-guide in Turkey
Wifebeating guide angers Muslim women
| Quote: | Wifebeating guide angers Muslim women
Owen Bowcott
Thursday August 10, 2000
The Guardian
A Turkish state-funded religious foundation has courted public fury by publishing a volume that says men may beat their wives as long as they avoid the face and do not strike too hard. The Muslim's Handbook, written by a retired cleric, Kemal Guran, also says that if a man's wife is ill and he cannot afford a servant, he can take a second wife.
The book was printed under the supervision of the Pious Foundation, which is affiliated to Turkey's government-run religious affairs directorate. The directorate appoints all Muslim clerics and dictates the topics preached at mosques.
Although other religious texts have declared wifebeating permissible in the past, the Muslim's Handbook has been produced at a time when the directorate is attempting to present a modern interpretation of Islam, including greater rights for Muslim women.
"I am outraged that such a book was published with state funds - with money women paid in taxes," said Zuhal Kilic, the head of Kader, a group which promotes women in politics. And Sema Piskinsut from the Turkish parliament's committee on human rights warned that "no one has the right to hit another person".
The foundation is already in trouble with the military-dominated national security council for publishing a book which described the armed forces as "not a national army but the army of a faction [of society]". Turkey's army is staunchly secular and has led the crackdown on political Islam.
Several weeks ago a similar row erupted in Spain about another book by a Muslim cleric which included tips on wifebeating. The imam Mohamed Kamal Mostafa, based at a mosque in Fuengirola, on Spain's southern coast, also described how to hit without leaving marks in his recent book Women in Islam.
He suggested that verbal skills were the best way to bring women into line. If that did not work, a period of sexual abstinence should be tried. Failing that, beating was acceptable so long as the blow, delivered by a thin rod, was not struck in extreme anger. Sensitive parts of the body such as the face, breasts, and stomach should be avoided.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003 |
. How to beat the wife-guide in Spain
Spanish women outraged by book that gives advice on beatings
http://www.nospank.net/n-g68.htm
| Quote: | cnn.com book news, July 26, 2000
Spanish women outraged by book that gives advice on beatings
By The Associated Press
MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Women's organizations in Spain are outraged by a book written by a Muslim cleric that contains advice on how men can beat their wives without leaving marks.
The sixth chapter of "Women in Islam" says verbal warnings followed by a period of sexual inactivity can be used to discipline a disobedient wife.
But in some cases, beating is appropriate so long as the punches "don't leave cuts or bruises," the book says, according to the Spanish news agency Europa Press.
The book's Egyptian-born author, Imam Mohamed Kamal Mostafa, is the leader of a mosque in Fuengirola near the southern city of Malaga. He could not be reached for comment.
"This book promotes and give instructions on abusing women. It is a guide that should not be in circulation," Angeles Ruiz, the president of the European Women's Lobby, said Tuesday.
On Friday, the coalition of 30 women's groups filed a lawsuit in a Barcelona court to have the book withdrawn. They invoked a Spanish law designed to protect women from discrimination in the home and the workplace.
On Monday, Mostafa's Barcelona-based editor Mowafak Kanfatch defended the book, which he said was published three years ago and has three thousand copies in print.
"What it says is that there should not be blows to the face or to sensitive parts," Kanfatch said on Spanish television. "Blows should be done to parts where the woman will not suffer damage."
Copyright 2000 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. |
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Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
"every hour 667 muslims are converting to christianity" |
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Manticore
Joined: 27 Jul 2002
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:29 am Post subject: |
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”He suggested that verbal skills were the best way to bring women into line. If that did not work, a period of sexual abstinence should be tried”.
The Koran talks about sexual abstinence so that is where they got it from. This is against common sense. Man who generally have more sexual appetite are punishing a (circumcised ?) woman with abstinence. In fact they may be doing them a favour since most of their marriages are arranged and the woman only had to oblige. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:31 am Post subject: |
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AbuDosama,
Proving that Christianity and Judaism are the rotten apples they sure are, does not disprove te fact that Islam is also a rotten apple.
All religions are creations of men.
In the verses you quoted from the other religious books, you saw that Women are oppressed in those religions as well!!
Why do you think everyone talks about violation of women's rights in Islam ??
Why do you think that I left Islam ?
Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'." |
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Medi Terraneus
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:52 am Post subject: Ref. "How to beat the wife-guide in Spain" |
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(deleted)
_________________
When somebody tells me that I am too old to do something, I rush to do it.
(Pablo Picasso)
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Orenda
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Abu,
it is incorrect to call those Jewish and Christian laws, you are quoting largely from the Old Testament which are jewish laws, and not laws from Jesus Christ.
Also, all that you are quoting done by David, you fail to quote the scripture in which Jehovah punished David for his actions (though unjustly since Jehovah was an idiot god)
This doesnt reflect on Christians today unless you can find any Christians today who want to follow the laws of the old testament and not Jesus's teachings. Can you?
The prostitues of Oholah and oholibah were spoken of very critically and severely punished and murdered by their own former customers ...so if you are trying to show that christianity somehow supports prostitiion, you failed miserably.
Quran claims that God gave the torah to moses, and gave the psalms to david and gave Jesus the gospel, at the same time quran also claims that god's word can never be altered, that no one can change the words of allah, so being a muslim, you must accept that these certain books are all uncorrupted parts within the "corrupted bible".
Jesus came to reform , same as Muhammed tried to do .....
Therefore, If you want to make a valid attack against Christianity, you must compare what Jesus taught to what Muhammed presented to you. |
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Medi Terraneus
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:21 am Post subject: |
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(deleted)
_________________
When somebody tells me that I am too old to do something, I rush to do it.
(Pablo Picasso)
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nina
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Abudosama wrote: | | Sex is by default an animal instinctive behavior for productivity; [...] Let me assure you that my religion is not as sexist as you think. |
Dear Abudosama,
When I said 'sexist' I actually did not mean sex, but discrimatory ideas about men and women. That way, islam is almost entirely sexist. Men and women are expected to differ in every domain, and treated accordingly.
This does not do right to the human individuality in the first place.
But worse, women are also considered to be lower creatures, and are placed under male guardianship. Just because they are women, that's sufficient to take away their autonomy.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab- Ch: 2 V:223 ) Your women are field of productivity for you, so go into your field when you like, |
This verse is the main reason why islam, and all patriarchal religions, are bad for women. Because women are not fields of productivity for men!!!!
Men in patriarchal religions hate our (women) guts because it's we that have the children, and are the real parent of a child without doubt. Men can never be sure that they are the real parent, because they do not carry the child.
After all, it's women who have the womb, and it's women that carry the new life until it comes outof their belly. No denial possible.
So what did patriarchal religion do to resolve this problem, and make sure that the paternal line of birth could be established? They made laws that gave men the ownership of the women and their wombs. Only by owning the womb of a woman, men can have their own offspring. But even then, men have to take all kinds of precautions to make sure that he is the father.
So their laws make sure that women will be punished extremely severe if they did not protect their wombs from other men. Patriarchal laws forbade women to leave the house and travel alone, because if she travels alone, she will have the possibility to have sex with another man.
They did everything that was necesarry to make sure that the woman's child was for certain the child of a specific man. This goes entirely against nature, because fatherhood is NEVER certain! Completely certain fatherhood can only exist when women are prisoners of their husbands.
Every other way, fatherhood is completely uncertain, and all that men can do about it is to trust their wives and accept the uncertainty.
If a man wants to be sure that he is the father, he will have to guard his wife every minute. If a society favours fatherhood above motherhood, it will provide laws that punish women who are boss over their own womb and sex.
And islam is developped completely to ensure fatherhood. That's why women are kept indoors, why they are kept veiled, why they need a male relative that chaperons them when they want to go out, why they are gossipped about when they do as they please, and why they are whipped and stoned when they are pregnant. They are only allowed to be pregnant by their owner.
This is why islam is an inhumane religion for women. It's not natural to be a prisoner, to hide your skin from the sun, to be unable to travel freely, to be unable to develop your own skills freely.
| Abudosama wrote: | | Sex has nothing to do with religion. Like other human being the people who are accepted this religion do have sexual desire like others, but in Islam it is a controlled one, a Muslim is only allow to have sex with his legal wife(s) only. |
Actually, the best thing to make sure that the womb was owned by men, was make up the idea that god allowed this. That's why sex has everything to do with religion and islam. It's, as you partly observed, controlled, to be precise, it's controlled by the patriarchal religion, i.c. islam.
The reason that a muslim man is only allowed to have sex with his legitimate wife, by the way, is that otherwise he might impregnate the legal womb of another man. It has nothing to do with equality of men and women. Marital sex is only prescribed to protect the certain fatherhood of other men.
Why would the sharia have zina laws if sex had nothing to do with religion?
Of course, islam did not invent patriarchal religion, but it certainly refined it and made it impossible to escape from it.
| Abudosama wrote: | | You are probably ignorant like most of western people that society-ethics are different and Islamic-ethics are different. |
I am not ignorant of that. I do admire many cultural traits that we lack in the west. But I do know patriarchal religions from nearby, and I do know what their purpose is. Islamic ethics are not different from christianity in that respect, although I must say that islam is much stricter and has more cruel punishments to protect the religion and the paternity right.
Besides, I don't see punishment for sexual behaviour and the imprisonment of women as ethics. I see it as oppression.
| Quote: | | The internal evasive behavior, allures human being to divert from ethics, is due to lack of guidance. |
Well, I'm brought up with a lot of ethical ideas. This includes not to steal (I had to bring back the chewing gum that I nicked once, when I was a five year old, and apologize  ), not hurting other people, not by fighting with them nor with offensive terms, be nice to other people, share my things with them, respecting other people's believes, and so on.
Not having sex is no part of my ethical system however, and I wouldn't know why it should be. I am allowed to have sex with different men, and I am allowed to get pregnant without being married. I won't be punished for that, I won't be repudiated from society, my baby won't be taken away from me, and I won't be lashed for it.
And most important, my baby would not be a bastard child just because it had no father.
Nor do I see anything wrong in nudity.
Well, I wanted to explain my views first. I'm going to read what you said about stoning, divorce and about christianity again now. |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Minstelae wrote: | Thanks. Although... if he were talking about women plural, then he should not have used the word "a" in front of it.
Anywho...
Man, that must have been harsh. I'd hate to be a woman in a relationship or marriage with a polygamous man. |
Imagine being a 9 year old girl and marrying a man with multiple wives
As if being shoved into adulthood wasnt enough...now you have to deal with being one of his...well, y'know 
Muhammad even had the nerve to marry more than 4 wives, which goes directly against his own faith! ^_^ Of course, muslims excuse this too, saying "god made an exception because he was a prophet." Heh. I say whatever to that o0
By the way, welcome to FFI! 
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KAMIKAZE WATERMELON! 
Fischerspooner is weird..but cool |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Abudosama wrote:
| Quote: | | Stoning to death is not in Islam, Death for indecent sexual act is in Jewish and Christianity for both man and woman. |
While the pentateuch mentions stoning for various crimes, stoning is not practiced in Judaism.
The quran mentions flogging for adultery, the hadith mention stoning and some traditional sources claim that the true quran had stoning as the penalty for adultery.
I'll quote some excerpts from a muslim site http://www.jamiat.org.za/aj/local/stoning.html :
| Quote: | | The matter under discussion i.e. adultery and the stoning of the adulterers is clearly established in the Holy Quran, Hadith and the consensus of the Sahabah (Radiallaahu Anhum) i.e. the Companions of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). |
| Quote: | | There are many other traditions of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) in which the "stoning of adulterer and adulteress" is clearly proven. |
| Quote: | Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) said, "Verily, Allah sent Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) with the truth, and revealed the Quran upon him. The verse regarding the stoning of the adulterer/ess was from amongst the verse revealed (in the Quraan). We read it, secured it and understood it. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) stoned and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time a person might say, ‘We do not find mention of stoning in the Book of Allah and thereby go astray by leaving out an obligation revealed by Allah. Verily, the stoning of a adulterer/ress is found in the Quraan and is the truth, if the witnesses are met or there is a pregnancy or confession."
Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 2. pg 1009
Sahih Muslim Vol 2. pg 65 |
| Quote: | 4. Hadhrat Jabir (Radiallaahu Anhu) narrates that a person from the Aslam tribe came to Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) and admitted that he had committed adultery. He testified four (4) times. He was a married man. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) ordered that he be stoned.
Sahih Al Bukhari – Vol 2. pg 1006 |
| Quote: | In light of the above, the Khulafa-e-Rashedeen and the leaders of the Ummah had all practised "stoning".
1. Hadhrat Uthmaan bin Affaan (Radiallaahu Anhu) stoned an adulteress. (Muwatta Malik pg 686, Nur Muhammad, Araam Baagh)
2. Hadhrat Ali (Radiallaahu Anhu) stoned a woman on a Friday and said, "I stoned her in accordance to the teachings of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) – (Sahih Bukhari Vol 2, pg 1006) |
| Quote: | From the time of the Sahabah (Radiallaahu Anhum) to this date all believers are unanimous that a married adulterer/ess should be stoned. This consensus is reported by many of the famous scholars. A few are listed.
1. Hafiz ibne Hazam in Maraatibul Ijmain
2. Ibne Qudaama (Rahmatullaahi Alayhi) in Al Mughni, Vol 10. pg 118
3. Abul Waleed Muhammad bin Ahmed Al-Qurtubi in Bidaayatul Mujtahid Vol 2 pg 325.
Allam Anwar Shah Kashmiri writes in his book Ikfaarul Mulhideen, pg 57, |
| Quote: | | "Similarly, there is a consensus of the Ulama to disassociate from Islam, all those who argue about that which is found clearly in the Quraan, e.g. The Khawaarij are regarded as disbelievers because of rejecting the stoning of a married adulterer/adulteress. |
| Quote: | | Uttering statements contrary to the Quraan and Hadith could lead to Kufr, which in turn drags one to the Hell-fire. |
Best wishes,
Rand |
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CroMagnon
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2112
Location: West Kafiristan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ref. "How to beat the wife-guide in Spain" |
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| Medi Terraneus wrote: | Dear Monsieur Magnon:
Your previous post here has inspired me to write a letter to the lawyer in the accusation side (groups of women) regarding the Iman who wrote that book.
I've read in the net newspaper that the lawyer of the accusation, Ma. José Varela, said that this 'beating' thing was not in the Quran but was an elaboration on the part of the Iman  I've written to her and included the 3 translations where it DOES show it.
The trial is still going on, so I hope my letter will help clarify a few dark points.
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Bien hecho, Medi
I hope your letter will have some effect and I'm curious to the response you might get from the lawyer. Do keep us informed, eh?
gracias 
_________________
Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
"every hour 667 muslims are converting to christianity" |
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friend or foe
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab- Ch: 7 V:189 ) He it is Who created you (male) from a single (feminine) being, and from her created her pair, that he appeases her; so when he covers her she bears a light burden, then moves about with it; but when it grows heavy, they both call upon Allah, their Lord: If You (Allah) give us a good one, we shall certainly be of the grateful ones. |
Really strange verse. What does the light burden mean? Why is she bearing it when he covers her? Is it about protecting or hiding or what?
| Quote: | | Sex has nothing to do with religion. |
Islam is just only about sex and genitals, im sorry. verwhelming collection of hadith tells us that. The sexuality and making a taboo of it, meanwhile a perversion too, is a central aspect of islam.
| Quote: | | Like other human being the people who are accepted this religion do have sexual desire like others, but in Islam it is a controlled one, a Muslim is only allow to have sex with his legal wife(s) only. |
The possibility of a man to have variation is allowed and you know it.
| Quote: | | And Al-Mushrik are the one who accept others law after rejecting the law of Allah, even if they do not accept Allah. So you people are Musrik because you listen the philosophy of Ali Sina for you he is single Principal. |
Understand it. We think, you don't have to. Profet has thought everything ready for you.
Your society is full of sex and following the Christianity:
Listen to the christianity expert! 
I thought you wanted to talk about islam, but you changed the track. You have falsely taken parts from old testament, while you should know the christians regard these laws as Moses' old regulations that were for the Jews those days. Study a little before you preach.
| Quote: | ACCORDING TO GOOD NEWS BIBLE JEWS & CHRISTIANS FAITH. [/b][/color]
ALCOHOL.
| Quote: | | PROVERBS 31:6-7- Alcohol is for people who are dying, for those who are in misery. Let them drink and forget their poverty and unhappiness. |
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in islam, alcohol is drunk in PARADISE????
FAHISHA/NUDITY:
Islamic fear of genitals at its worst.
FAHISHA/ADULTERY:
FAHISHA/INCEST
| Quote: |
You thought people were Saints in those days?
| Quote: | | Please show me a nude beach, or offing web site of (9 to 12 years) Muslim girls who act or behave like a prostitute may be from brothel house or from a so-called decent family. This nudity is from Shaitan (Angry personality) who inculcates evasive behavior in human being. |
Men" from decent families" can do more evil sexual acts privately than those who are in nude beach. Adam and Eve were naked, but noticed it only after Shaitan came. your story is twisted in that way it makes the genitals guilty again.
| Quote: | | society-ethics are different and Islamic-ethics are different. |
Yes, we in kafir society realize eg the fact we are sexual beings and therefore do not prohibit eg masturbation which makes even young people totally guilty for nothing. Sick.
| Quote: | | This lack of guidance (DO and Do not) is dangerous for human being it enlarges animal behavior. |
Do men outside islam f** anything that moves or from where you take this argument? Ajatollah Khomeini has even given instructions for having sex with an animal.
| Quote: | | In Muslim society only 5 to 10 % youth leave their parents on the other hand in western society the ratio is 80 to 95%. |
In which aspect? To live on one's own? I think in Italy and spain the lifestyle is the same, people live with their parents until very old.
| Quote: | | I learned from my friend who visited Czechoslovakia informed me that the ratio of maltreating wives in this western country is almost 80%, I have to believe him sine he served their for 20 years. Well that is it. So the beating a woman do not have religious support, this is an individual or society torment. More over have you read these somewhere? Are you Christian or Ex- Christian ? |
You aware that in "west" church is divided from the State...Aware how many Christians are habitual christians? Aware if Jesus tought us to beat? Nope.
[b] LUKE 19:27- Now, as for those enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king, bring them here and kill them in my presence |
didnt you know Jesus is ironical in the BIBLE?
| Quote: | | Islamic Law do give right of divorce to women too, who told you that it does not? |
If the man agrees. Most cases many tricky job to get divorce.
| Quote: | | Marriage according to Al-Kitaab is a bi-lateral contract, either of the partner can break it under certain conditions. The one who get divorce will have to pay penalty. |
Does man need guardian too? What penalty does woman pay? The price of her vagina?
_________________
- Let the memories live but don't live in them - |
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Unknown 112
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Crow wrote: | | Minstelae wrote: | Thanks. Although... if he were talking about women plural, then he should not have used the word "a" in front of it.
Anywho...
Man, that must have been harsh. I'd hate to be a woman in a relationship or marriage with a polygamous man. |
Imagine being a 9 year old girl and marrying a man with multiple wives
As if being shoved into adulthood wasnt enough...now you have to deal with being one of his...well, y'know
Muhammad even had the nerve to marry more than 4 wives, which goes directly against his own faith! ^_^ Of course, muslims excuse this too, saying "god made an exception because he was a prophet." Heh. I say whatever to that o0
By the way, welcome to FFI! |
Thanks, and yeah, true. Ick. *shudders at thought* |
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Orenda
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:39 am Post subject: |
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 Friend, what you wrote reminded me of something, indeed that does look very strange to me and it is rather very different to the same verse I read by Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Shakir and Khalifa.
Abudosama can you please explain to me your interpretation of this verse please 
| Quote: | | Al-Kitaab- Ch: 7 V:189 ) He it is Who created you (male) from a single (feminine) being, and from her created her pair, that he appeases her; so when he covers her she bears a light burden, then moves about with it; but when it grows heavy, they both call upon Allah, their Lord: If You (Allah) give us a good one, we shall certainly be of the grateful ones. |
This sort of alludes to evolutionism in which our first human ancestors were females who then developed into male and female and hence where we came from. I had never seen before that quran supported this! wow...
let me paste the same verse written by the four other translators.
| Quote: | 007.189
Huwa allathee khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatin wajaAAala minha zawjaha liyaskuna ilayha falamma taghashshaha hamalat hamlan khafeefan famarrat bihi falamma athqalat daAAawa Allaha rabbahuma la-in ataytana salihan lanakoonanna mina alshshakireena
YUSUFALI: It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful."
PICKTHAL: He it is Who did create you from a single soul, and therefrom did make his mate that he might take rest in her. And when he covered her she bore a light burden, and she passed (unnoticed) with it, but when it became heavy they cried unto Allah, their Lord, saying: If thou givest unto us aright we shall be of the thankful.
SHAKIR: He it is Who created you from a single being, and of the same (kind) did He make his mate, that he might incline to her; so when he covers her she bears a light burden, then moves about with it; but when it grows heavy, they both call upon Allah, their Lord: If Thou givest us a good one, we shall certainly be of the grateful ones.
KHALIFA: He created you from one person (Adam). Subsequently, He gives every man a mate to find tranquility with her. She then carries a light load that she can hardly notice. As the load gets heavier, they implore GOD their Lord: "If You give us a good baby, we will be appreciative." |
As you can see I had always thought this verse was referring to creating Adam, and from Adam creating Eve, But now Abudosama you are saying that Allah created you (male) from single (feminine) being Eve first and from her created her pair of Adam?
Can you explain please, Or have I misunderstood your words?
Also Please Read For Clarification
| Quote: | 004.001
Ya ayyuha alnnasu ittaqoo rabbakumu allathee khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatin wakhalaqa minha zawjaha wabaththa minhuma rijalan katheeran wanisaan waittaqoo Allaha allathee tasaaloona bihi waal-arhama inna Allaha kana AAalaykum raqeeban
YUSUFALI: O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
PICKTHAL: O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim (your rights) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bare you). Lo! Allah hath been a watcher over you.
SHAKIR: O people! be careful of (your duty to) your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you.
KHALIFA: O people, observe your Lord; the One who created you from one being, and created from it its mate, then spread from the two many men and women. You shall regard GOD, by whom you swear, and regard the parents. GOD is watching over you. |
Would you translate this ayah to also mean single "feminine" being ?
Where have these translators gone wrong?
Thanks Ahead of Time.
Orenda |
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Abudosama
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 286
Location: Islamabad
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Dear Brother in Humanity ADNAN
السلام وعليكم Peace be on to you
| Quote: | | I was frank with you since we have talked before, and you are from Islamabad, a city I know well. |
In western society it might be possible that frankness leads to flirt or share friends wife, but it is against the ethics of Muslim society. Had these comments be from a person of western society I would not have minded it.
| Quote: | Anyway, if you want scholarly debate, you'll get it.
1) Hadith exist in which Mohammed beat his wife. Do you want to see that hadith? |
Probably you are talking about Mohammed bin Abdullah, I have seen complete Al-Hadees from Al-Hamdo_lillah to W An_Nass.
I did not find any Ayat of Al-Hadees which indicates that Mohammed Al-Rasool Allah beats his wife.
Al-Kitaab(The Universal Truths)and Al-Hadees(The Narrations)
http://forum.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?t=3365
 The Lord of Universe says that I reveal Al-Hadees, the transgressors say not he Qaal_la (talks).
The Lord of Universe says that Muhammad Qaal_la (talks), the transgressors say not he Hadas (narrates). What an idiotic behaviour.
| Quote: | | 2) Whether or not you beat your wife or not, is irrelevant to the discussion. |
What is relevant and what is not relevant for you, But, it is relevant for me to follow, Al-Rasool Allah
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:33 V:21). Indeed for you an excellent example is, in the Messenger of Allah and for him who refer Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much. |
| Quote: | | 3) I'll be waiting for your response to Kafira's question when she asked you "would you beat your wife if didn’t obey Allah?" |
| Quote: | (Al-Kitaab C:60, V:10) O ye who believe!
1)- When there come to you believing women refugees:
a)- Examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith:
b)- if ye ascertain that they are Believers,
c)- then send them not back to the Unbelievers.
d)- They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them.
e)- But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them.
2)- But hold not to the ties (marriage contract) of unbelieving women:
a)- ask for what ye have spent on their dowers,
b)- and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of
women who come over to you).
3)- Such is the command of Allah. He judges (with Justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom. |
| Quote: | | 4) Even if your wife disobeys Allah’s commandments, who are you to beat her? Is she your child? |
Why should I beat her for becoming Kafira, I will divorce her, It is Allah’s Commandment.
If woman has become rejecter. . (Al-Kitaab C:60, V:10)
| Quote: | | Are you responsible for her sins? |
No I am not responsible for her sin.
I am only responsible for my children till they obey me for :-
1)- My home Law.
2)- My Family Law.
3)- My Society Law.
4)- The obedience of Allah’s Commandments,
I can advice them, guide them, admonish them, and banish them, from my jurisdiction of parentage. Since they refuse to aboard the ship of my parentage as obedient Muslim children.
For My State Law, my state is responsible for them.
| Quote: | 5) Give a real life example or scenario in which you would be left with no choice but to beat your wife.
Please describe this scenario in detail. |
Guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded;
It is difficult for you to understand what Allah has guarded unseen for a woman, read this:-
The Women who betray her husband.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:66 V:10): Allah strike with the example for rejecters, of the wife of Nooh and the wife of Loot: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they betrayed their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: "Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!" |
The Women who guard her chastity.
| Quote: | | (Al-Kitaab C:66 V:12): And Mary the daughter of Ìmraan, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His writings, and was one of the devout (servants). |
A Muslim husband can only beat his wife for the leading toward betrayal in not guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; as an admonishery action by husband if she has not betrayed.
| Quote: | (Al-Kitaab C:4 V:34): Men are the establisher of women because Allah has made some of them(men) to excel others:-
a)- And because they spend out of their wealth,
b). The good women (those who accept men as their establishers) are therefore obedient,
c). Guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; And those on whose part you fear violation (from guarding the unseen),
(Steps of Correction)
1) Admonish them,
2) Advice them (about the consequences (100 stripes) from Kitaab Allah)
3) (If admonishment does not solve the problems) And leave them alone in the bedrooms (so that the should think and reconsider),
4) and (as a last resort) beat them;
d) Then if they obey you (in Guarding the unseen), do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. |
Abudosama |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Abudosama wrote:
| Quote: | Why should I beat her for becoming Kafira, I will divorce her, It is Allah’s Commandment.
If woman has become rejecter. . (Al-Kitaab C:60, V:10) |
Dear Abudosama,
Suppose your wfe just gave birth to triplets, and then she became qafir. Would you divorce her? Couldn't that be damaging to the infants?
If she became qafir why couldn't you talk to her, explain the miracle of the quran, ask her what theological problems are bothering her? Maybe you could persuade her to submit to islam?
Also, can you define kafira. What axioms of faith must she break before you would divorce her?
Best wishes,
Rand |
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