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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Hello Menj,
I don't know much about Buddhist teachings.
Could you please give me/us some examples of Buddhist teachings that call for violence/subduing/hating/distrusting/slavery/battle etc.
That way i can see that the violent Buddhists get their behavior from the teachings, instead of their own personalities.
Thanks in advance, |
Dan,
Menj doesn't entertain such "ridiculous" ideas! Why would he go into the teachings of the Buddha if he can just fool himself that Buddhism is baaaadd by watching how they worship and conduct their rituals. So we can also basically do the same thing with Muslims, we can say how bad Islam is because many of his followers are crazy violent without even having to look at the teachings of Islam. But either way, we win because we are correct on both accounts (that many Muslims are bad and Islam is bad as well).
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Unknown 38
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Certainly this looks like idolworship . Some people really need pictures or statues.
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:18 am Post subject: |
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While Islam centers on otherness and enemies, either real or perceived or created, Buddhism centers on the path and efforts of self-conquest, of eradicating ignorance, delusions and mental defilements that are in the roots of all human conflicts and suffering.
Twenty-five hundred years ago, the Buddha said:
"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -- for those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease.
"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -- for those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease.
In this world hatred is never appeased by hatred; hatred is always appeased by love. This is an ancient law.
(Dhammapada, 3-5)
If Islam is based on this kind of introspective wisdom, it wouldn't have been the most hated religion in the world with the most conflicts and enemies it creates.
It's very common when talking to a Muslim or visiting an Islamic website to find indignant, self-righteous statements like this one of Abdullahnoor's:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5835&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
| Quote: | But it does not end there. It can be said that Sura 105, The Elephant, has more profound meaning. It foretells history before its time.
The Elephant represents the power of the kafirs over Muslims for many centuries. The Elephant thus is a symbol of power, oppression and aggression displayed by the enemies of Islam, against Muslims over these centuries. The plan to destroy the Kaaba represents the continued and relentless plans to suppress and eradicate Islam, till today. The modest bird represents the modest means of Muslims. The pebbles represent the disastrous forces unforeseen by the kafirs, that have been used against them, time and again. The defeat of the Elephant represents the ever failing attempts of anti-Muslims, who have been trying to eradicate Islam for centuries. And the Kaaba standing firmly represents the unwavering religion of Islam, in spite of the many attempts to eradicate it the last 1400 years! |
Islam sees the world in us-vs.-them glasses, as obvious in Abdullahnoor's statement above, whom himself is a pious slave of Allah. Abd himself calls those who disagree with that kind of mentality Muslim-haters and because of the color glasses he wears he projects his indignation against anyone he perceives threatening to his belief that will soon enough fulfills his own prejudice that kafirs hate Muslims. Muslims perpetuate this sense of victimhood this way, they agressively force others to accept that islam is the only truth and Kafirs are losers, evil and hate truth (Islam), and when others respond negatively, they take this as proof that Islam is true in its statement that kafirs are evil and hate truth (Islam)/Muslims so they become more aggressive in their dealings with unbelievers who soon enough become their eternal enemies. Then when people respond to this hostility with more fervor and urgency, they use this as further proof that kaafirs will always persecute Muslims and try to eradicate Islam no matter what, so they need to attack them first in the name of self-defense. Hence the call to all Muslims to unite so they can cry together and reinforce the sense of victimhood that will reinforce their resolution to be harsher in their dealings against kaafirs to defend Islam, all this time oblivious to the fact that Islam is at the very root of this causality.
Islam will exist as long as it has enemies, without them Islam doesn't have a ground to keep its followers together. This Esprit de corps works wonder each and every time, especially because Islam claims itself to be the voice of the downtrodden, the wronged, the persecuted. It gives perfect validation to those social misfits who hate the world for whatever reason. It gives them a sense of belongingness, a sense of mission that they are fighting for something greater than themselves, fighting against injustice inflicted by those very people they often secretly envy and love to become but they can't.
Unbelievers cry out that the hostility and agression begins with Islam, yet Muslims will always look at other people to lay the blame on.
The Buddha, otoh, teach people to look inside before outside, to work on one's own psyche: one's own motives, fixations, false beliefs, delusions, attachment, aversion, cravings, anger, selfishness and ego-pleasing tendency. His statement above summarises very clearly that at the end of the day one is responsible for one's own happiness and peace of mind. If one is going to respond according to his deeply conditioned habits, responses and dualistic ways of seeing the world then one is not free. Freedom is when one can unravel knot by knot of this mental, emotional and psychological entanglement.
Just another clear example that while Buddhism is smart, realistic, rational, timeless and mature, Islam is very destructive even to the sanest who may wittingly or unwittingly fall under its reign.
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein
Last edited by Ari on Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:51 am Post subject: |
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dear Ari., FFI needs many more Aris and the world needs many more Aris...
It is good to see very rational/logical questioning of Islamic theology..but in one of your posts, you have pasted Mr. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman wonderful quote
| Quote: |
“Jihad and killing is the head of Islam. If you take it out, you cut off the head of Islam.” -Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman |
curious to know the source of this saying ...
with best wishes
yeezevee |
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syamal
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 388
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The Buddha, otoh, teach people to look inside before outside, to work on one's own psyche: one's own motives, fixations, false beliefs, delusions, attachment, aversion, cravings, anger, selfishness and ego-pleasing tendency |
Atmanam parichayta. Know Thyself. |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| yeezevee wrote: | dear Ari., FFI needs many more Aris and the world needs many more Aris...
It is good to see very rational/logical questioning of Islamic theology..but in one of your posts, you have pasted Mr. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman wonderful quote
| Quote: |
“Jihad and killing is the head of Islam. If you take it out, you cut off the head of Islam.” -Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman |
curious to know the source of this saying ...
with best wishes
yeezevee |
Hi Yeez, thanks for the compliment. Do you want to enshrine the quote on your bedroom's wall?  Thanks to Dan Cannon I got it from the Resource:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/junoon/debate.html
Go enjoy some other wonderful quotes from the most pious Muslims like Sheikh Tantawi from Al-Azhar.
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oops I think I got it wrong
It should have been
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6431
Thanks to Farside.
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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ultraman agul
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I have decided that instead of simply wasting my time with repetitions and the likes, I will include all arguments that Buddhists generally hold against Islam and its answers/refutations in the soon-to-be-released e-publication, A Muslim Primer On Buddhism.
Have a nice day, everyone.
- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Menj, you are so hilariously cute  You think by advertising the cover of your supposed booklet in any thread you go anyone is going to be fooled that you are actually doing a good job refuting Buddhism??? Anyone can come up with a so-called cover of a book they claim they are writing, it only takes a minute. The content that matters, not the cover hon
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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ultraman agul
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Ari wrote: | The content that matters, not the cover hon
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Of course, and it will be released as soon as it is ready.
BTW, it took me about 2 hours to find that picture and to arrange it as well as the typeset.
- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:13 am Post subject: |
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The first and foremost contrast between Buddhism and Islam is of course on the fact that while Buddhism grants total freedom for anyone to choose his/her belief system and to inquire/reason/think/speak his/her mind, Islam is absolutely opposed to it.
The most celebrated saying of the Buddha to the people of Kalama says it all:
http://www.tbsn.org/english/library/sutras/kalama.htm
| Quote: | The criterion for acceptance
"Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.
(Kalama Sutra, The Buddha's Charter of Free Inquiry) |
Compare this to the Koran:
| Quote: | | "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost." (Surah 3:85) |
Or Mo's saying:
| Quote: | | "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Al Buhkari Vol. 9:57) |
This explains why Buddhists are well known for their laidbackness, equanimity and level-headedness in dealing even with the most serious blow against their faith such in the case of the destruction of the Buddhist archaelogical sites by the Taliban. There has been no single bloody incident reported as the result of this barbaric act. Their typical reaction was sadness yet realisation of impermanence and non-attachment which was at the center of the Enlightened One's Dharma itself.
Even our poor friend Menj had a hard time trying to find a piece of evidence that Buddhists have engaged in serious violations of human rights because they are offended by this act  . So far he had been a little relieved by his kaafir "ally" (right, violating Islamic very clear law of the prohibition of associating with those who treat the Muslim faith like a sport) who supplied him with a couple pictures of Srilankan monks in protest of the destruction in which they are carrying banners asking that the Taliban be punished (yes, just punished, not killed or maimed) and burning the Taliban effigies (yes, just the paper dolls, not any living human being/Muslim, to the contrary to what happened in Nigeria when Muslims riot against the Miss World's pageant in which they burned a kaafir alive). Menj has pasted these pictures several times showing how desperate he is for similar proof of Islam's destructive predispostion that anyone can easily get from the internet or any source.
Surely the prevalent attitudes of Buddhists vis a vis Muslims are not by coincidence. They are directly related to the very core of the religions they profess, THIS IS FACT YOU CANNOT DENY IT!!! While Buddhism itself is not immune to abuse by those claiming to be its followers, overall Buddhism has shown itself as the least tainted religion with its clarity and consistency in preaching tolerance, loving kindness, self-conquest/knowledge, contemplation and freedom of inquiries. Its history, though isn't without blemish, is relatively peaceful (nothing compared to Christianity and Islam) and it's safe to say that Buddhism was very rarely used to justify violence and persecution by Buddhists since nobody could really do that or that any violence done was rarely in the name of advancing a Buddhist cause (like spreading the religion).
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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ultraman agul
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ari wrote: | | The first and foremost contrast between Buddhism and Islam is of course on the fact that while Buddhism grants total freedom for anyone to choose his/her belief system |
....such as allowing for Buddhists to worship men into the position of godhood, for example? That is what happened to Tibetan Buddhism. Tibetans are currently taking the Dalai Lama as their GOD, and this person is allegedly able to "reincarnate" himself several times.
| Quote: |
and to inquire/reason/think/speak his/her mind, Islam is absolutely opposed to it. |
Nonsense. Islam's history is replete with people speaking their mind and even openly disagree with the Prophet (P), to which he (P) listen their views and calmly answers them if their views are in contrast to what Islam teaches.
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Muhammad/reevaluation.htm
| Quote: | | The Prophet never punished out of mere retaliation for a personal slight or injury. All his punishments, of believers and unbelievers alike, were for crimes committed against the public weal or infringements of the promulgated law; and even here his life contains acts of clemency in which he put mercy above justice. Especially remarkable in this respect was his great reluctance to inflict upon adulterers the prescribed punishment of death by stoning. A man or woman would come and confess having committed that major sin and ask "to be purified" — i.e., by the due punishment. Muhammad would first pretend not to have heard the confession. After repeated insistence from the confessor, he would say, "Perhaps the man is drunk and does not realize what he is saying." In the case of one woman, who insisted on her rightful punishment, he said she might be pregnant and it would not be justice to kill the innocent embryo. The woman went away and eventually came back with the newborn baby in her arms, but Muhammad said he must allow her a few years to suckle her young one and bring it up. In considering the punishments he dealt to the enemies of his cause, we must not forget, first, that they were political actions made necessary by the conditions of the time; second, that none of them were excessive unacceptable by the usages or mores of that time. And his life was crowned with his supreme act of forgiveness, when, in his hour of final victory upon the conquest of Mecca, he forgave his most bitter and dogged adversaries, those who had denied him the right to worship his God in his own way, who had long persecuted him and had caused him to flee his native place and seek refuge with strangers. According to the rules of war prevalent then, and for centuries afterwards both in Asia and Europe, he could have put them all to the sword. |
and another incident to be related:
| Quote: | To appreciate the full extent of his clemency, patience and forbearance, however, it is good to realize that he did not suffer only from the persecution of the unbelievers, but suffered a great deal from the rudeness, uncouthness and quick temper of many of his own followers. It is necessary to remember the state of the Arabs at that time, still near the wild and vehement character very justly dubbed by the Qur'ân al-Jahiliyya.[15] In the violence and quickness to anger, they often talked insultingly to the Prophet, but he never answered back; in fact, his capacity to suffer fools was amazing. Once a nomad came and, evidently to draw Muhammad's attention, pulled him by his mantle until he almost fell down, and the mantle left a mark round his neck. Muhammad looked at the nomad, laughed apparently at his violent way of calling his attention, and said, "What is it you want?" The nomad said, "Muhammad! Give me some of the money you have got." Muhammad said to his followers present, "Give him" (Notice how this person rudely addressed the Prophet by his bare name, not by his "kunya", patronymic, as the polite custom of the Arabs dictated, not by the usual 'O, Apostle of God' adopted by the believers). More than once a nomad would come and, in the usual offensive way of the bedouin, make an accusation against Muhammad which would prove to be unjust. But Muhammad would neither retaliate nor even mete out the just punishment; and he would stop his companions, who often wanted to kill the culprit, from molesting him in any way. Only in the most gentle way did he correct peoples' mistakes. A bedouin entered the mosque in Medina and urinated in it. When Muhammad's companions started to shout at the man, he asked them not to be rough on him, called him over, and gently explained to him that mosques were not suitable places for such actions, but were meant for the reading of the Qur'ân, the remembrance of God, and prayers. Then he called for a bucket of water and poured it over the urine. When proven wrong in an argument, even when his disputant was insolent, Muhammad would admit his mistake and rectify it without any false pride, and would apologize profusely as well. Once he had forgotten to pay back something he owed to a nomad. The man came to Muhammad, violently pulled Muhammad's mantle until it fell away from his shoulders, and accused him in quite an offensive way of deliberate dilatoriness. `Umar, enraged by the rough handling and insult done to the Prophet, called the man an enemy of God, and said he wished he could cut off his head.
Meanwhile, the Prophet was looking at `Umar "quietly and calmly". Then he smiled and said to `Umar: "He and I need something else. I need that you order me to pay back my debt properly, and he needs that you order him to demand his dues in a proper manner." Then he ordered `Umar to take the man, pay him the debt, and add to it twenty measures of dates to compensate him for the fright he (`Umar) had caused him. |
(Mohamed Al-Nowaihi, "Towards A Re-Evaluation of Muhammad: Prophet and Man")
| Quote: | Compare this to the Koran:
| Quote: | | "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost." (Surah 3:85) |
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Nothing to do with freedom of speech or inquiry per se. On the contrary, the Qur'an teaches:
"It is by the mercy of God that thou hast been gentle with them. Hadst thou been harsh and severe-hearted, they would have scattered away from thee. Therefore, forgive them and ask God's pardon for them, and consult them in all affairs." (Surah 3:159)
So much for the vain, cruel and vindictive tyrant. That should silence some ignorants who do not know the Qur'an inside and outside, as Muslims generally do. These ignorants are simply speaking from their arses, and no more.
Rest of unrelated nonsense snipped.
Have a nice day.
- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan |
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Kamel
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 282
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| MENJ wrote: | | And his life was crowned with his supreme act of forgiveness, when, in his hour of final victory upon the conquest of Mecca, he forgave his most bitter and dogged adversaries, those who had denied him the right to worship his God in his own way, who had long persecuted him and had caused him to flee his native place and seek refuge with strangers. According to the rules of war prevalent then, and for centuries afterwards both in Asia and Europe, he could have put them all to the sword. |
The embarrasing question is:
Did he allow them to keep their religion? And the more embarrasing part is What would Buhdda do in his place. And more embarrasing is what did he ask to be done with the rest of El-Mushrikeen in the Arab Penisula,? The answer is "religious cleansing".
Well Ari, you have stumbled on one of the pioneer criminal in history. |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| ultraman agul wrote: | | Ari wrote: | | The first and foremost contrast between Buddhism and Islam is of course on the fact that while Buddhism grants total freedom for anyone to choose his/her belief system |
....such as allowing for Buddhists to worship men into the position of godhood, for example? That is what happened to Tibetan Buddhism. Tibetans are currently taking the Dalai Lama as their GOD, and this person is allegedly able to "reincarnate" himself several times. |
And yes we have heard such nonsense coming from your mouth many times but can you support this with proof please that the Dalai Lama is considred God by his people?
And if you are allowed to worship Muhammad why can't other people worship the idol of their own choice?? What privilege do you have??
O don't tell us you don't worship Mo, facts tell us otherwise. And if you can say that, then Buddhists can also say that they don't worship Buddha or the Dalai Lama. OK? Case closed.
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Egyptian Kafir
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 474
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Nonsense. Islam's history is replete with people speaking their mind and even openly disagree with the Prophet (P), to which he (P) listen their views and calmly answers them if their views are in contrast to what Islam teaches.
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you mean Like tearing the old woman Um Qirfa into halfs by tieing her legs to 2 camels and ordering them to run sideways because she critisized islam in a poem?
and this incident?
http://islamweb.net/pls/iweb/quran.showAyaTafseer?SwraNo=4&ayaNo=60&TafseerNo=5
from Tafsir Al Qurtubi :
Translation :
Narrated Ibn Abbas :
(there was one of the Hypocrites called Bishr, who had a problem with a jewish man (in madinah) , so the jew said : lets go to muhammad to judge this problem, but bishr said "No, lets Go To Ka'b bin al ashraf" , but the jew insisted on going to muhammad (beeing the highest influence in madinah at the time) , so they went to muhammad and he judged in favor to the jew, but Bishr did not accept it, so they went to abu bakr and also dged in favor to the jew, but bishr did not accept either, so they went To umar bin al khattab, then the jew told umar : " we have went to muhammad, and went to abu bakr to judge and he did not accept their opinions" , omar replied : "is that so ?" , thus Umar went outside to Bishr , took out his sword and kept hitting the man until he died , and said : "this is the fate of anyone who refuses Allah and his apostle's Orders" , the jew was frightened and ran away, Allah's apostle Said on this To Umar : You are Al-Faruq , and that is why the Verse Was revealed : {Hast thou not turned thy vision to those who declare that they believe in the revelations that have come to thee and to those before thee? Their (real) wish is to resort together for judgment (in their disputes) to the Evil One, though they were ordered to reject him. But Satan's wish is to lead them astray far away } (4:60)
Indeed the man was so damn tolerent with those who disagree with his opinion! 
_________________
“The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.” ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Last edited by Egyptian Kafir on Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dan Cannon
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 318
Location: The Free world
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ultraman agul wrote: | | Ari wrote: |
It's actually hard to believe that a Muslim will put that much of an effort to demonise a religion as benign and gentle as Buddhism despite the fact that Buddhism/Buddhists never harmed Islam/Muslims in anyway |
And I can't believe that you are actually saying all this while at the same time "demonising" a religion as benign and supreme as Islam with all your racist slurs and ad hominem towards Muslims and the Prophet Muhammad (P), and then expect Muslims to keep silent while their religion and Prophet is being abused in front of them.
I'm shaking my head in disbelief.
- MENJ |
Hello Menj,
I don't know much about Buddhist teachings.
Could you please give me/us some examples of Buddhist teachings that call for violence/subduing/hating/distrusting/slavery/battle etc.
That way i can see that the violent Buddhists get their behavior from the teachings, instead of their own personalities.
Thanks in advance,
Dan
(I believe i was not yet on your permanent "troll" list so you could still answer this reasonable question.) |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Egyptian Kafir wrote: | | Quote: |
Nonsense. Islam's history is replete with people speaking their mind and even openly disagree with the Prophet (P), to which he (P) listen their views and calmly answers them if their views are in contrast to what Islam teaches.
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you mean Like tearing the old woman Um Qirfa into halfs by tieing her legs to 2 camels and ordering them to run sideways because she critisized islam in a poem?
and this incident?
http://islamweb.net/pls/iweb/quran.showAyaTafseer?SwraNo=4&ayaNo=60&TafseerNo=5 |
Or this incident?
| Quote: | When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" `Umayr b. `Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O `Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so `Umayr went back to his people.
Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [daughter of] Marwan. She had five sons, and when `Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting." That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was `Umayr b. `Adiy who was called the "Reader", and `Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam. |
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Menj,
| Menj wrote: | | Nonsense. Islam's history is replete with people speaking their mind and even openly disagree with the Prophet (P), to which he (P) listen their views and calmly answers them if their views are in contrast to what Islam teaches. |
Thats what your love for Mohammed teaches you. 5 or 6 years ago, I would have said exactly the same thing you're saying.
But as you see above, evidence contradicts what your emotions tell you.
Also, if you have any evidence to back up your own views, its because in the beginning Mohammed had to be soft with people, otherwise the vulnerable baby monster would have been killed with a squish.
Later on when Mohammed grew stronger and he gained followers, he could afford to be stronger and bolder.
Another example is that Alcohol was'nt prohibited suddenly, but gradually.
Adnan
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O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'." |
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Kamel
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 282
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| adnan wrote: | Later on when Mohammed grew stronger and he gained followers, he could afford to be stronger and bolder.
Another example is that Alcohol was'nt prohibited suddenly, but gradually.
Adnan |
A typical story of Hitler that repeats itself in every generation.This was the Hitler of seventh century ARabia |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Kamel wrote: |
A typical story of Hitler that repeats itself in every generation.This was the Hitler of seventh century ARabia |
Yup. Here's a comparison of the thought processes of Hitler and Mohammed.
OSS Psychological Profile of Hitler, Part One
| HITLER wrote: | "I carry out the commands that Providence has laid upon me." (490)
"No power on earth can shake the German Reich now, Divine Providence has willed it that I carry through the fulfillment of the Germanic task." (413)
"But if the voice speaks, then I know the time has come to act." (714) |
| The Pedophile (MOHAMMED) wrote: | | "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah " Al Bukhari vol. 4:196 |
Conclusion:
MOHAMMED was comparable and similiar to HITLER.
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O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'." |
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Unknown 38
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Menj wrote:
Nonsense. Islam's history is replete with people speaking their mind and even openly disagree with the Prophet (P), to which he (P) listen their views and calmly answers them if their views are in contrast to what Islam teaches. |
Like this one:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet(pbuh) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (pbuh) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet(pbuh) was informed about it. He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up. He sat before the Prophet (pbuh) and said:
Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her. Thereupon the Prophet (pbuh) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
Here are links to the Hadith:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4348
http://www.jannah.com/cgi-bin/library/hadeeth.pl?coll=3&book=38#18571[/quote] |
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Mullah Mo
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ultraman agul wrote: | | Ari wrote: | | Mmmmm.....the accusation that Buddhism is about idol worshipping has been stomped dead since Menj first brought it up and since he knew no way else to attack Buddhism the lame, shrunk brain kept bringin up |
"Ignored" is more like it, but "stomped dead" is hardly what I would call the reality of Buddhist idol-worship that is currently flourishing in South-East Asia:
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Buddhism is neither a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being."
How many time do i have to tell you this Menj?? Why can't you get it through your thick skull??
I have refuted all of Menj’s claims but he seems to be ignoring my posts. But he comes back with the same lies in different posts. Show some dignity Menj.
While you’re at it Menj, why don’t you tell everyone what your real motives are?? Menj is on a Jihad against Buddhism. He’s making up lies about this religion because he think this will damage its image and ultimately annihilate it from earth.
This is not all. Our Menj is more ambitious than that. Not only he (Menj) wants to annihilate the religion of Buddhism from the face of the earth, he wants to replace it with another religion.
After creating his psychological profile and thorough examination of it I have come up with some answers. Menj wants to replace Buddhism with: (a) Stone worshiping, (b) Wicken, (c) Native American religion (d) Hinduism, (c) Christianity, (d) Judaism, and of course (e) Islam.
Due to my careful observation of the psyche of Menj I have narrowed it down to one, just one. Oh, I’m good.
Ladies and Gentlemen, after rigorous examination I’ve concluded that Menj wants to replace the religion of Buddhism with none other then Mohammed’s very own Islam.
So, the answer is (e) Islam. Who would have guessed. |
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