Faith Freedom International

[missionms]

The real source of the terror that this country was subjected to on 9-11, was Saudi Arabia. Practically all of the participants were Saudis and all of the financing came from there.

This was an ACT OF WAR against the U.S. by Saudi Arabia!

The info on this web site is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/972rtfeu.asp
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[missionms]

Arab Journalist Calls Saudi Arabia Cradle of Terror. Says Only Solution is Wahhabism Should be Gotton Rid of.


*Al-Qaida: A Saudi Wahhabi Organization

*Egyptians' confiscated passports end up with terrorists

*Saudi Arabia helped perpetrators of terror attacks in Egypt

*An attack on Wahhabism is needed

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33171
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[missionms]

#1 terrorist state now wants nukes!


Saudi Arabia has been secretly obtaining help from Pakistan for its missile and nuclear program.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33164
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[adnan]

Extracts from the article "Arab Journalist Calls Saudi Arabia Cradle of Terror" quoted by militant:

[missionms]

[The below message comes from Center Right; subscription by Jeff Jacoby, the Boston Globe
November 18, 2001
To hear Prince Bandar tell it, Saudi Arabia is devoted to the United States.
"Our role," the Saudi ambassador said in a CNN interview some weeks ago, "is to stand solid and shoulder-to-shoulder with our friends, the people of
the United States. . . . In 1990, when we needed your help, you came through for us. And it's our turn now to stand up with you."
That's the official line, the one the Saudis have spent a fortune promoting over the years. It is a theme the media routinely echo. "No Arab nation," Newsweek declared just two weeks ago, "has been as reliable a friend to America over such a long period of time as Saudi Arabia."
Is it true?
When terrorists slaughtered thousands of civilians in a horrific attack on Sept. 11, our friends the Saudis reacted with -- silence. Other governments welled up with shock, grief, and fury. Riyadh said nothing.
As it became clear that most of those who carried out the atrocities were citizens of Saudi Arabia and that the mastermind behind them was a member of a leading Saudi family, one might have expected the Saudis to express great anguish and heartache. One might have thought they would be anxious to cooperate closely with the United States in rooting out those responsible for the devastation.
But there were no words of anguish, and there was little cooperation. The US investigation had barely begun when Riyadh arranged a private jet to fly scores of its citizens -- including members of the bin Laden clan -- out of the United States. This meant, of course, that the FBI could not interview people who might have had valuable information about the hijackers.
That was only the beginning of the Saudis' unhelpfulness. When Washington asked for background information on the Sept. 11 terrorists, the Saudis stonewalled. While 94 airlines agreed to identify passengers on planes flying to the United States, Saudi Arabian Airlines refused. A month after the attacks, The New York Times reported that "Saudi Arabia has so far refused to freeze the assets of Osama bin Laden and his associates." Of particular concern was Riyadh's unwillingness to shut down the Islamic "charities" that are Al Qaeda's lifeline.
As American war plans took shape, the Saudis barred the use of their military bases for attacks against the Taliban. Britain's Tony Blair set off on a Mideast tour to build support for the war effort, but was denied entry to Saudi Arabia. And just days after the US bombardment of Afghanistan began, the Saudi interior minister denounced it. "This is killing innocent people," Prince Nayef scolded. "We are not at all happy with the situation."
These are our friends?
For years the United States has had an arrangement with Saudi Arabia's rulers: They would sell us oil and we would pretend not to notice that they were intolerant dictators who crushed dissent at home while nurturing some of the world's most violent fanatics abroad. But now we are at war with those fanatics and the old bargain cannot continue.
It is time to face the truth about our Saudi "friends:" Their money, their diplomacy, their politics, and above all their Wahhabi strain of Islam -- extremist, intolerant, aggressive, and poisonously anti-Western -- made Sept. 11 possible. The Taliban and Al Qaeda represent not perversions of Wahhabism but its full flowering. That is why they had the support of so many Saudis -- and why the blood of the victims is on Saudi hands.
For years, the House of Saud has had it both ways, posing as a friend of America while spending lavishly to advance America-hating Islamist extremism around the world. When forced to choose between the two, they have generally kept faith with the extremists. In 1996, for example, Saudi authorities derailed the US investigation into the Khobar Towers terrorist bombing in Dharahn, which killed 19 American soldiers and maimed 372. The FBI was not allowed to examine the evidence or question suspects. When a US grand jury this year indicted 13 Saudis for the bombing, Riyadh refused to extradite them.
This is not how friends should behave. And absorbing such insults is not how a superpower should behave.
For years Washington has allowed Riyadh to dictate the terms of the US-Saudi relationship. Because the Saudis demanded that Saddam Hussein not be toppled, the Gulf War was aborted before victory had been achieved. But because Saddam wasn't destroyed, Saudi Arabia required continuing protection, so thousands of US troops remained inside its borders. That occupation by "infidel" Americans, in turn, fueled the rage of Osama bin Laden -- who used Saudi money and Saudi recruits to build up his army of terrorists and plot the murder of Americans. Our obsequiousness has cost us dearly.
Saudi Arabia and the United States, as Crown Prince Abdullah himself said last month, have come to a crossroads. Perhaps it is time they went their separate ways.
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[missionms]

  
Topple the House of Saud
Worse than Saddam.
he Bush administration once again heard the cold, hard facts about Saudi Arabia's growing threat. And once again, they covered their ears.
"Saudi Arabia supports our enemies and attacks our allies," Rand Corporation analyst Laurent Murawiec told the Defense Policy Board last July 10. "The Saudis are active at every level of the terror chain, from planners to financiers, from cadre to foot-soldier, from ideologist to cheerleader," he continued in remarks to this advisory panel of former elected officials and security experts. He blamed Riyadh for "a daily outpouring of virulent hatred against the U.S. from Saudi media, 'educational' institutions, clerics, officials — Saudis tell us one thing in private, do the contrary in reality."

 Senior administration officials would have none of this. When the Washington Post revealed this briefing on August 6, Secretary of State Colin Powell called Saudi foreign minister Prince Saud Faisal to promise him that it did not reflect U.S. policy. "The Saudis cooperate fully in the global war on terrorism," Pentagon spokesman Victoria Clarke added.
True, but on which side?
Saudi Arabia routinely targets Americans and Israelis. Behold a sample of its latest misdeeds:
Saudi Arabia is the Federal Reserve of terrorism. Israeli soldiers recovered records on the West Bank this spring that show that the Saudi Committee for the Support of the Intifada al-Quds (Jerusalem in Arabic) has paid $5,300 bonuses to the families of at least 102 Palestinian terrorists including eight involved in "suicide operations." Among them, David Tell noted in the May 20 Weekly Standard, were the relatives of Sufian Sabarin who detonated Jerusalem's No. 26 bus on August 21, 1995, killing Joan Devenny, an American citizen and victim of Saudi-funded terrorism. To continue such work, the Committee, controlled by Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz, raised $109.5 million last April in a Jerry Lewis-style telethon for "Palestinian martyrs."
Documents indicate that another Saudi "charity," the International Islamic Relief Organization, gave $280,000 to 14 Palestinian groups including "Hamas-identified committees/bodies." Hamas, of course, sponsored the July 31 bombing in the cafeteria of Hebrew University's Frank Sinatra International Student Center in Jerusalem. The blast wounded 86 innocent civilians and murdered seven others, five of them Americans.
Here's what news accounts say NATO troops found last October at the Sarajevo office of the Saudi High Commission for Relief: Pre-and-post-attack photos of the World Trade Center, the USS Cole and American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania; maps of federal buildings in Washington; materials for forging State Department badges; and a computer program on how to spread pesticides with crop dusters.
Saudi ambassador to Great Britain Ghazi Algosaibi published a poem in the April 13 edition of Al Hayat, a London-based Arabic newspaper. Titled "The Martyrs," it praises Ayat Akhras, a Palestinian woman who exploded herself in a Jerusalem supermarket on March 29. She killed herself and two Israelis and injured 25 others.
"Doors of heaven are opened for her," Ambassador Algosaibi's poem says of "Ayat, the bride of loftiness." Akhras "embraced death with a smile while the leaders are running away from death," the poet adds. The ambassador, who has represented Saudi Arabia in London for more than a decade, takes a swing at America: He writes, "We complained to the idols of a White House whose heart is filled with darkness."
Top Saudis parrot Der Sturmer editor Julius Streicher, perhaps Hitler's loudest Jew hater. Sheik Abd-al-Rahman Ibn-Abd-al-Aziz al-Sudays, Chief Cleric at Mecca's Grand Mosque, claimed last April 19 that Jews are "the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the killers of the prophets and the grandsons of monkeys and pigs." In a June 21 sermon broadcast live on government-owned TV1, the imam prayed: "O God, deal with the Jews and Zionists for they are within Your power. O God, scatter their assemblies, make them a lesson for others, and let them and their property be a booty for Muslims."
The Saudi Commerce Ministry recently banned spoons, toy guns, candies, and laser discs emblazoned with Stars of David. "The Ministry is investigating the ways why [sic] these products had been brought into the Kingdom," the English-language Riyadh Daily explained June 25.
While such Muslim countries as Pakistan and Yemen courageously have permitted U.S. troops to prosecute the war on terror from their soil, Saudi Arabia prohibited American jets from using the Prince Sultan Air Base while America and its allies drove al Qaeda and the Taliban from Afghanistan. Never mind that the base was built with U.S. tax dollars. Just yesterday, the Saudis announced their territory would be off limits in any new U.S. bid to invade Iraq.
Soon after the September 11 attacks, orchestrated by 15 Saudis among 19 hijackers, Saudi diplomats whisked several of Osama bin Laden's relatives on a private jet from America to Saudi Arabia and beyond the reach of U.S. investigators. Riyadh subsequently has stymied background checks on Saudi terror suspects and impeded American efforts to block al Qaeda's financial assets. Unlike nearly every other carrier, Saudi Arabian Airlines even refused to give the U.S. Customs Service the identities of passengers on its America-bound flights.
As the administration considers invading Iraq, it also should pursue regime change in Saudi Arabia. Saddam Hussein is essentially a better-armed Ferdinand Marcos. He is an egomaniac who craves power and crushes opponents. Hussein, a secular Muslim, professes no concrete ideology beyond his own cult of personality. Yes, he has treated his Kurdish minority to poison gas and likely is building chemical, biological and even atomic weapons of mass murder. Still, Hussein seems more of a regional headache than a worldwide menace.
The House of Saud apparently lacks such a weapons program, but it adheres to a globally ambitious, religious-based ideology. Saudi Arabia aims to hijack Islam everywhere — from Medina to Manila to Manhattan's Islamic Cultural Center on East 96th Street — and infect it with that religion's virulent Wahhabi strain. The goal? An energized, anti-Semitic, anti-Western, anti-American faith. Through the charities, religious schools and mosques they finance, Saudi Arabia would employ Wahhabism to build a bridge to the eighth century.
America should confront the Saudi dictatorship. For starters, President Bush and Secretary Powell should stop glad-handing Saudi officials. Statecraft may require them to work with Riyadh, but there is no need for Crown Prince Abdullah to hobnob at Bush's Texas ranch.
Abundant global oil supplies also would diminish Saudi Arabia's relevance. Thus, Washington should help Russia and West African nations boost their petroleum production. Africa needs the money, and a prosperous, Westward-looking Russia would not likely re-aim its ballistic missiles at America.
Topple Saddam Hussein, if we must. But Rand's scholar is right. Team Bush should stop pretending that Saudi Arabia is Holland with sand dunes.
— Mr. Murdock is a columnist with the Scripps Howard News Service.
 
 
 
 
 
  


   
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[bush badee]

I will not quote Missionms as I agree with just about every thing he and the others have posted in this thread.,
But I do want to add something I read just yesterday.

I recieve a Christian magazine and I got my copy lf it yesterday.

The name the magazine is "Isreal My Glory" (And I know that Missionms would love it)

In this months issue the Editorial is titled "Duty, HOnor, country-- Still Alive and Well."

As I read the article, I kept saying "Yes, Yes , Yes" I wanted to stand up and cheer the author, the editorial was so powerful.
He points out that our leaders persisted in telling us that this war was not about religion (IN Iraq) . But this was not the case with the Islamisist who strap bombs on them selves and blow them selves up amongst Westerners.

He made me think, and remember, we have not had a ticker tape parade for the veterans of this war who died and fought to bring freedom to others.
I was ashamed to say he was right.
Why hadn't we done this, well the author tells us it is because we did not want to offend the Muslims.

We did not want to honor our brave young men and woman because WE DID NOT WANT TO OFFEND the Muslims ? HOW DISGRACEFUL.

This month's issue talks about the tens of thousands of Christians dieing at the hands of Muslims around the world and bases it's lessons mostly on Jonah.

It also has other articles like "It is About Religion- and About Responsibility".

While I do not practice the Christian faith, I have found so much straight forward truth in this magazine it is almost unbeleiveable.,
It pulls no punches when it talks about Faith Based Terror and I have never quite seen another magazine with the integritiy that this one has.

Again, It is a wonderful magazine.,
I have a gift subscription to it and I tell all my Christian friends about it.

Their web site is www.foi.org

Check it out and I think you will agree with me.

By the way, they are not a proscillating group and make no attempt to convert Jews or any one else to their faith.
_________________
to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com

[Egyptian Kafir]

[bush badee]

[missionms]

Where is it carved in stone that the oil belongs to al Saud? Where is it carved in stone that Saudi Arabia belongs to the Saudis?

Arabia isn't the problem. The Saudis are.

There was a time when Christians and Jews could live in the Middle East relatively unmolested. They were taxed, true, but they were in little danger of being killed. Wahhabism changed all that.

It is the export of Wahhabism that has caused the jihad situation! The House of Saud intermarried with the Wahhabis, so they are totally identified with it.

The Saudis need to be put on a camel and pointed in the direction of the desert.
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[missionms]

Saudi Arabia, False Friend
By Serge Trifkovic
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 27, 2002
(One in a series of articles adapted by Robert Locke from Dr. Serge Trifkovic's new book The Sword of the Prophet: A Politically-Incorrect Guide to Islam)
Austere mosques, women relegated to the background and a puritanical faith that rejects change. A brand of Islam that drives the Taliban and influenced the young American who fought by their side has taken root in the Mecca of modernism, America. The mosques and women in question are in Dearborn, Michigan, the fruits of America's "special relationship" with the most rigid totalitarian dictatorship in the world. Welcome to the Saudi connection, one of the best-kept secrets inside the Beltway.
The moving spirit behind the project is in Muhammad's homeland, and the fuel that makes it possible is oil. The Muslim World League was founded in Mecca, Saudi Arabia in 1962, and a decade later the Organization of the Islamic Conference, with its headquarters in the Saudi city of Jeddah. Both organizations, and a myriad of ostensibly private charities devoted to Islamic proselytism, are richly endowed by petrodollars from Saudi Arabia's narrow, ultra-rich ruling kleptocracy. Its members provide aid to countries willing to follow the path of Islamization, and build mosques wherever they can. They send missionaries, provide literature, and run electronic media. The MWL runs the world's largest printing presses, producing tens of millions of copies of the Koran every year for worldwide distribution.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is the most intolerant Islamic regime in the world. The practice of any religion besides Islam is as strictly prohibited now as it was in Muhammad's lifetime. Even the Taliban allowed more latitude to religious minorities. While the Saudis continue to build mosques all over the world, thousands of Christians among the hundreds of thousands of foreign workers from India, Europe, America, and the Philippines must worship in secret and in fear. They are arrested, lashed or deported for public display of their beliefs.
Because Saudi money helps spread Islamist government to other nations which repress Christianity, like Sudan, Saudi Arabia is now the most powerful and explicit anti-Christian nation on the face of the earth. It is waging a world-wide proxy war against Christianity – and, to be fair, other religions that Islam comes into contact with, like Judaism in Israel, Hinduism in India, animism in Africa, Bahai in Iran, and Buddhism in Southeast Asia – not matched in intensity since the days when the Communists were serious about atheism.
Saudi Arabia doesn't only disregard the rights of its own people, it tramples on those of Americans, too. In Saudi Arabia, American citizens can be detained indefinitely at the pleasure of a Saudi Muslim father who kidnapped them from their American mother. This has happened to Patricia Roush, whose daughters Alia and Aisha are now clad from head to toe in the black abaya. Alia has been married off to one of her father's cousins, and Aisha is the next on whom the purdah will fall. The State Department directed the U.S. embassy in Riyadh to remain "impartial." Ray Mabus, ex-U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, explains that diplomats feel they should be working on the "big stuff."
Western politicians lie about Saudi Arabia all the time. "Saudi Arabia is a good and dependable friend to the civilized world," Britain's Tony Blair declared during a tour of the Middle East in 2001. "Civilization" is a relative term to a high priest of post-modernism like Mr. Blair, but his enthusiasm for the House of Saud may be easier to understand if we consider that Britain's arms merchants have their most lucrative buyer in the desert kingdom. And we are as glued to the same teat as the British: in only six years (1991-1997) there were $23 billion worth of arms agreements between the United States and Saudi Arabia. This means jobs, and congressmen, in places where defense plants are located.
The dirty little secret is that large sections of the American and European elites are being deliberately fed Saudi money, directly and indirectly, to bribe them to exert pressures at home favorable to Saudi Arabia. The Carlyle Group, for example, is a Washington D.C. investment bank that specializes in investing Saudi royal wealth abroad. It also has a convenient habit of employing people close to the Bush administration. Shades of Clintonesque corruption? To be fair, the smoking gun is not in view, but as citizens, we are entitled to wonder about what are politely called "conflicts of interest." Does anyone look at this and not "get" how the game is obviously played?
Saudi Arabia's "royal" kleptocracy (a dynasty of antiquity inferior to most decent brands of whisky) owns huge parts of major American corporations, and that is the "big stuff." Suffice to say that the present U.S. Ambassador there is Dallas attorney Robert Jordan, a man with no diplomatic experience, but also the lawyer who defended George W. Bush in a probe of insider trading allegations in 1990. Jordan comes from the Dallas office of Houston law firm Baker & Botts, which has an office in Riyadh and whose client list includes The Carlyle Group. One of the Group's directors is former President George Bush Sr., while James A. Baker III is the current Baker in Baker Botts. Baker was a classmate of Donald H. Rumsfeld at Princeton. Rumsfeld, the current Secretary of Defense, was the roommate of Frank C. Carlucci. Carlucci, who was head of the National Security Council under President Ronald Reagan, is currently chairman of The Carlyle Group. At least $2 million of Carlyle funding has come from the bin Laden family of Saudi Arabia.
The focus on the "big stuff" also allowed thousands of young Saudis easy access to American visas under various pretexts, many of them hell-bent on waging jihad against the unbelievers. The Saudi authorities issued them exit visas in the full knowledge what they were up to. At least they were keen to get rid of the potentially troublesome hotheads who could stir up trouble at home. Worse still, they may have considered the resulting mayhem, exemplified in the predominantly Saudi suicide teams of September 11, as not necessarily wrong or undesirable. Rather than prevent young Saudis from enlisting in military ventures abroad or silence the sheiks encouraging them, some officials say Saudi Arabia has mostly tried to deflect the problem outside its borders.
On September 12, 2001, Crown Prince Abdullah ibn Abdulaziz, the Saudi leader, and his oil minister Ali Nuaimi decided to break a recent promise to other OPEC nations to cut oil production. They arranged for quick delivery of additional nine million barrels of oil to the United States instead, which helped reduce the price from almost $30 a barrel before 9-11 to under $20 only weeks later. This was a preemptive gesture by people with a guilty conscience. They knew that someone, somewhere in the United States would put two and two together: that whenever there are Islamic terrorists bringing death, destruction, and havoc to the non-Muslim world, there are some Saudis lurking in the background, either as masterminds, or direct participants, or as bankrollers.
All along, the Islamic "charities" that financed terrorists included prominent members of the royal family on their boards. Since 1992, one Saudi charity, the Al Haramin Foundation, has distributed hundreds of millions of dollars, with money often ending up in extremist coffers.
The United States is still reluctant to read the riot act to the Saudis. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, normally not a mealy-mouthed man, on a visit to Saudi Arabia in the aftermath of terrorist attacks appeared strangely evasive on the issue of Saudi funds for Islamic terror, and admitted that he had not asked the Saudis to freeze the assets of people and groups linked to Mr. bin Laden, even though the United States had asked all countries to do so.
Saudi Arabia is an economically and socially dysfunctional society. It has 18 million citizens (and 6 million foreign workers), growing at over 4 percent a year from 1980 to 1998. The average Saudi family now has between six and seven children. Per-capita income has collapsed from a peak of $19,000 in 1981 to $7,300 in 1997. Unemployment is rampant, but young people don't want the lower-paying jobs held by foreigners. The government can no longer support the generous social welfare system it created at the height of the oil boom. From a peak of $227 billion in 1981 oil revenue is down to under $50 billion. The money earned during the boom was squandered on palaces, corruption, armaments, and foreign laborers who just sent it back to their own countries. The fabulous flow of wealth was not used to create a serious industrial base, despite laughable gestures in this direction. The only expanding industry is that of Islamic extremism.
The Saudi system is not just tyrannical, it borders on comedy at times. In 1966, the Vice-President of the Islamic University of Medina complained that Copernican theory was being taught at Riyadh University. Three hundred years after the Christian theologians had to concede that the Earth went around the Sun the geocentric theory was reaffirmed in the centers of Saudi learning. In 1967 segregation of the sexes at schools was set at age nine, which was the age for girls to start to wear the veil. The King was forced to sack the Minister of Information for "offensive" TV programs: apparently a cartoon passed the censors in which Mickey Mouse gave Minnie a little peck. This is a country where sexual slaves are routinely purchased for harems by the very rich, who have no qualms about jetting off to Paris (the once-delightful and more convenient Beirut having been ruined by civil war) for weekends of recreation they would be beheaded for at home.
The ability of the inherently fanatical and mendacious (as well as profligate and corrupt) rulers of the desert kingdom to square any circles at all is entirely due to its oil reserves, which account for up to one-fifth of all U.S. imports. The Saudis are perfectly aware that this is their only, albeit enormously powerful trump card, and soon embarked on a multimillion-dollar public relations campaign to try to restore confidence in the Saudi-American "special relationship." They see America – a country in which the rich generally work in real jobs, mind you – as decadent and dependent on their precious black goo for its consumer lifestyle. They see our own corruption as the perfect guarantee that they will never have to pay the price for their own.
For the time being the Saudis and their co-religionists have no reason to doubt that the talk about promoting democracy is propaganda for internal consumption and that the US prefers to deal with autocratic rulers, who are much easier to bribe. The end result, for now, favors an oppressive plutocracy without elected representative bodies, light-years and worlds apart from all that America and the rest of the Western world hold near and dear. America and the rest of the West urgently need to set themselves free from the need to pander to Saudi whims, including the non-existent and unreciprocated "right" of its government to bankroll thousands of mosques and Islamic "cultural centers" around the world that teach hate and provide the logistic infrastructure to Islamic terrorism.
Their ability to break free from the Saudi connection is predicated upon their liberation from Middle Eastern oil imports. That liberation is possible and necessary. It only requires political will and monetary investment into the development of new technologies. This is, and has always been, the crucial prerequisite to the development of a meaningful anti-terrorist strategy. To plan on any other strategy is to imagine, with the kind of deal-with-the-devil cynicism that is always too clever for its own good, that America can find its own long-term good in propping up fundamentally evil people who hate us just because they are corrupt enough to satisfy our short-term desires.
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[bush badee]

Missionms wrote

[Egyptian Kafir]

[Scandinavian infidel]

[missionms]

Moses didn't have a choice. Having to wander 40 years in the desert was a discipline from God.
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[bush badee]

Infidal wrote

[missionms]

"
The Persecution of Christians in Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia, having no constitution, is a Muslim monarchy under the leadership of King Fahd Bin Abd Al-Aziz. Saudi Arabia can be fairly described as the most repressive Muslim country in the world. By the end of the 7th century, muslim raiders had either killed or expelled all Christians from the country. Today, churches are banned, prayer meetings in private homes are prohibited, Bibles are confiscated, and proclaiming the Gospel is punishable by such extreme measures as execution by beheading or life in prison. Any display of Christian symbols is entirely forbidden and the practice of Christianity even by foreigners is strictly prohibited, with a few exceptions.
The expatriate church, numbering over 30,000, is forced to meet in secret and the Saudi muslims converting to Christianity, which are growing in number, are taking extreme measures to guard their identity in fear of severe reprisals from the government or family members. The government's religious police, the Mutawah, routinely searches for Christians holding Bible studies in their homes or otherwise sharing their faith in public. In 1997, two Filipinos who became Christians while in prison, were beheaded after being warned numerous times to halt their evangelistic activities and to stop leading Bible studies. Scores of expatriate Christians have been imprisoned and expelled on account of their beliefs. In June 1998, 31 believers were arrested in an apparent crackdown in Riyadh. ICC hosted the international coordinator for the underground house churches in Saudi Arabia and together initiated efforts in Washington that led to the release of all 31 in an unprecedented short period of time. Fortunately, all of them escaped the customary 70 lashes, but nevertheless were immediately deported. Many of them had been employed in Saudi Arabia for more than 10 years.
Christian leaders in Saudi Arabia are concerned that the government's actions of arresting and deporting Christians is a deliberate plan aimed at eliminating all Christian activities in Saudi Arabia.


The Kernel of evil
Business as Usual with Saudi Arabia?
by Irwin Stelzer
 
A not-so-funny thing happened on the way to Baghdad to get rid of Saddam
Hussein. Americans came to realize that they might have to take a detour
through Riyadh. The famed Rand consultancy has just advised the Pentagons
Defense Policy Board that Saudi Arabia is the kernel of evil, and that
serious thought should be given to taking control of the 25 percent of the
worlds known oil reserves on which the Kingdom happens to sit. Secretary
of State Colin Powell rushed to reassure the Saudi regime that Rand doesnt
make U.S. policy, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the leak of
the report is clearly harmful. But sources close to the Pentagon tell me
that some members of the Saudi royal family are sufficiently apprehensive
about their countrys increasing unpopularity in the U.S. to fear that the
days of business as usual are over.
 
The Rand report is the culmination of a learning process that has been
underway since September 11. First, Americans discovered that the regime
that controls Saudi Arabia consists of a bunch of not-very-nice royals.
Second, Americans discovered that the House of Saud is the principal
financier of the terrorists against whom President Bush has declared war.
Third, Americans are beginning to realize that they have to do something
about our dependence on Saudi Arabian oil.
 
Start with the nasty bit. For years Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United
States, Prince Bandar, managed to create a pleasant image of his country
by lavish entertaining, shrewd schmoozing, and making himself useful to
successive U.S. administrations when they needed an Arab intermediary. Add
to that the exotic flowing robes of visiting Saudis, a kind of desert
chic, and you had an American public not terribly inclined to notice the
regimes repression of women and its support for the islamic radicals who
use the regime-funded schools and mosques to incite violence against the
West.
 
Then came September 11, and Americans couldn't fail to notice that 15 of
the 19 terrorists involved in the attacks were Saudis. Not a coincidence,
says the Rand report. And no surprise to students of Saudi affairs that
its rulers even now continue to fund the schools and mosques that are
homes to preachers of violent anti-American dogma, and have shown no
inclination to cooperate with American efforts to cut off the flow of
funds to terror organizations. As former Deputy Assistant Secretary of
State Edward Morse puts it, They won't give us information, won't help track
people down, and won't let us use our bases that are there to protect them.
Rand goes further, pointing out that the Saudis are active at every level
of the terror chain.
 
Which brings us to Saudi oil. Americans have gotten the clue: the money we
spend on Saudi oil not only supports the welfare state that bribes the
unemployed and unemployable middle class into acquiescence to rule by
unelected royals, and pays for the lush palaces of the kingdoms thousands
of princes. It is also used to make austere caves habitable for the
terrorists who continue to threaten America and the West.
 
America often takes a long time to react to having thumbs stuck in its
eye, but react it eventually will. The problem is not in the resolve to do
something, but in figuring out just what to do. President Bush wants to
increase domestic production of oil, and add to the Strategic Petroleum
Reserve. But with even the nations limited storage facilities only partly
filled, that strategy cant do more than buy a few months of relief should
the Saudis join a new boycott in support of Iraq, or islamic extremists
take over their country. Neither can drilling holes in the Alaska National
Wildlife Refuge (ANWR), which at best can yield only enough oil at current
prices merely to cover a portion of the increase that will occur in
American oil consumption by 2010 or 2020, when that Alaskan oil might come
on stream.
 
The greens, of course, want to lower demand rather than increase domestic
supply. Not a bad idea, except that even on the most optimistic
assumptions, economically sensible conservation cannot produce enough
savings in consumption, soon enough, to make America independent of Saudi
manipulation of oil markets.
 
Then there are the optimists who have discovered the fact that Russia sits
on a lot of oil, and is rapidly increasing its production. Switch to oil
from our new ally, they say, and we can afford to get tough with the
Saudis. That was the thinking behind President Bushs decision to agree to
a joint energy development strategy with Russian president Vladimir Putin
at their May summit in Moscow.
 
But Russia's limited ability to expand output in the near- and medium-term,
and the high cost of producing and transporting oil from Russian
fields something like four-to-five times the cost in Saudi Arabia makes it
an inadequate alternative should Saudi oil become unavailable to the U.S.
 
Besides, American planners for regime change in Iraq can't be certain that
Russia will continue to export at current levels when Bush decides that
the time is ripe to move on Iraq, a long-time Russian client-state.
 
All of which is why there is mounting talk around Washington of a possible
American takeover of the Saudi oil fields. Should bin Laden's associates
topple the existing regime, or even seem to be about to do so, or should
the Saudis shut down their wells, the affected world community may feel
compelled to liberate the wells of Arabia and restore production, writes
S. Fred Singer of the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. After
all, that is what America did in Kuwait. But, adds Singer, this time we
might not return the wells to the original owners, who by then will have
departed to hotels on the Riviera or to the Dorchester.
 
Sound far-fetched? Just watch the intensity of the services commemorating
the first anniversary of September 11 if you doubt that Americans aim to
do whatever is necessary to win their war on terror.
 
 
 
 
 
 
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[bush badee]

A couple of points..
You talk about Saudi Royals.
What makes them Royal.
Not to many years ago they were a desert band of thieves raiding caravans passing through the area
4000 years ago they were raiding the Israelites (Amelicites) as the Israeli's passed through the desert and little has changed since then
England gave them their kingdom and I see no reason we can not take it away from them

One other point.
I used to work for the RAND corporation.
You know what that stands for don't you.
Reasearch And No Developement.

We used to look at things like, should LA float an iceberg into santa monica harbor for water.

They had more secret documents than any building besides the Pentagon in the US till Ellsberg blew their Classified Status and put a lot of people out of work. I left the week before the FBI pulled up with a bunch of moving vans to take all the Classified safes out of the building. Good timeing.
_________________
to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com

[missionms]

What makes them royals? Nothing. They call themselves that, and people respect it. Kings come and kings go. Dynasties come and dynasties go. That one definately needs to go. With Wahhabism they have started an inferno that will probably consume them. Good riddance.

Prior to Wahhabism, jihad was not what it is today. It is the Wahhabis who are responsible for the suicide bombers. It is the Wahhabis who are responsible for Christian missionaries getting their brains blown out when they are trying to do nothing except save peoples souls. It is the Wahhabis who are responsible for Lebanon "being no more." What it is now, is certainly not what it used to be. It is the Saudis who are rewarding the families of suicide bombers with cash. THE SAUDIS ARE MASS MURDERERS!

If the U.S. had not stopped Saddam in Desert Storm, he would have gone straight to Saudi Arabia. We saved their black hides!!! And what thanks did we get for that? They declared war on us on 9-11-01. You do remember, don't you, that there were two other planes that didn't reach their destination? They were headed for the Capitol and the White House! Had they suceeded they would have temporarily brought down our government!!!!
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[missionms]

Saudi Arabia's Links to Terrorism
A briefing by Laurent Murawiec

Once upon a time, there were solid grounds for a partnership between the United States and Saudi Arabia. After World War II, the kingdom's vast oil reserves and willingness to use its production capacity to ensure moderate and stable world oil prices were rightly judged to be vital to American national security. In return for these strategic assets, the United States pledged to protect the kingdom's oil supplies and obstruct those who would seek to control them, particularly the Soviet Union. Thus, when FDR met with King Abdulaziz bin Saud in 1945, a marriage of convenience was born. But the original reasons for this marriage of convenience have long since faded away. It is time for a divorce.
Cracks in the Marriage
The first indications that the foundations of this partnership were eroding came in the early 1970s, when the Saudis took the lead in establishing the OPEC oil cartel. Saudi Arabia was among the three leading instigators of the 1973 embargo on oil shipments to the United States and was the principal beneficiary of it. Rather than standing by the United States at a time when tensions between American and Soviet naval vessels in the Mediterranean were at an all-time high, the Saudis cut off oil supplies to the U.S. navy in October of that year.
The rationale for this partnership completely unraveled following the 1979 establishment of an Islamic Republic in Tehran, when Iranian clerics challenged the religious credentials of the Saudi monarchy. Ayatollah Khomeini condemned Saudi royals as corrupt, venal and decidedly unIslamic. That they should be challenged at all was bad enough - that they should be challenged by Shiites, regarded as a heretical sect by most Sunni Muslims, was intolerable.

The Saudi Royal Family
Since it established control over the Arabia peninsula in the 1920s, the Saudi royal family has claimed to be the guardian of Islam's two holiest sites – Mecca and Medina – and prides itself on upholding the "purest" form of Islam, known as Wahhabism. Wahhabism dates back to a pact between eighteenth century Arabian zealot Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and a desert brigand named Ibn Saud, which enshrined an alliance through marriage that produced the Saudi royal family. Until the late 1970s, Wahhabism was an extreme sect that happened to rule Saudi Arabia, but did not bother too many outside the kingdom's borders. To counter the proliferation of anti-Saudi Iranian propaganda, however, the Saudis decided to spread Wahhabi teachings abroad. The royal family's oil wealth poured into countries throughout the Islamic world, from West Africa to Indonesia, fueling a proliferation of madrasas (religious schools) that indoctrinated a new generation of Islamists. Even in the United States, Muslim children studied Islamic primers shipped from Wahhabi institutes in Saudi Arabia.
The Monster they Created
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979 provided the kingdom with an ideal opportunity to sponsor a bona fide holy war that would showcase Wahhabi ideals and quiet Iranian-inspired Islamist opposition to the monarchy. Madrasas around the Arab and Islamic world produced shock troops for this jihad. After the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan, these "Arab Afghans" began trickling home and looked for other jihads. The Saudis had created a monster; to be sure they did not wreak havoc inside the kingdom, bin Laden and other Saudi Islamists were encouraged to wage holy war abroad. When the Clinton administration cornered Osama bin Laden in the Sudan in 1998, the Saudis refused to allow his extradition back home, where he could be neutralized. Instead, the Saudi intelligence chief – Prince Turki – reportedly offered bin Laden $200 million to go to Afghanistan, on the condition that he not target the Saudi royal family. Bin Laden honored his promise – there has not been a single attack by Al-Qaeda against the Al-Saud family. Inside the kingdom, Al-Qaeda has only operated against the Americans and the British. Over time, the understanding became that bin Laden would leave the Saudis alone only if they allowed the network of charities funding Al-Qaeda to operate unhindered. On the day after the September 11 attacks, the first thing Riyadh did was evacuate two dozen members of the bin Laden family residing in the US on the private jet of its ambassador, Prince Bandar.
Conclusion
With the end of the Cold War, the most persuasive reasons for maintaining the marriage of convenience with Saudi Arabia disappeared. With the September 11 attacks, the returns on this partnership went from zero to negative. The Saudis have become the friends of our enemies and the enemies of our friends. Bin Laden is an extension of Saudi foreign policy. To be fair, the Saudis don't quite know how to deal with the monster they've created – so far they've avoided tough choices. As long as the benefits of sponsoring terror are enormous and the costs of sponsoring terror are negligible, they will not take decisive action. The US must therefore make the costs of funding Wahhabi extremism terribly high, while making the benefits slim pickings.
_________________
_____________________
I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not.

[bush badee]

missionm wrote

[bush badee]