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http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/FAQ/what_was_ayesha.htm


What was Ayesha’s (ra) age at the time of her marriage?

It is normally believed that she was nine years old at the time of her marriage with Mohammad (sws) was consummated. I do think it was according to the traditions of the Arab culture, as otherwise people would have objected to this marriage. But unfortunately, the modern day man is not satisfied with an answer as simple as that.

Reply*

To begin with, I think it is the responsibility of all those who believe that marrying a girl as young as nine years old was an accepted norm of the Arab culture, to provide at least a few examples to substantiate their point of view. I have not yet been able to find a single dependable instance in the books of Arab history where a girl as young as nine years old was given away in marriage. Unless such examples are given, we do not have any reasonable grounds to believe that it really was an accepted norm.

In my opinion, the age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly mis-reported in the ahadith. Not only that, I think that the narratives reporting this event are not only highly unreliable but also that on the basis of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely happening. Let us look at the issue from an objective stand point. My reservations in accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayeshas (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are:

Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.

It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years.

Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq. (vol 11, pg 48 - 51)
Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly. (vol 4, pg 301 - 302)

According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.

According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam.

Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am -- with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, and subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.


These are some of the major points that go against accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage.

In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Ayesha (ra) at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.

I hope I have been of some help.

Best Regards

The Learner


A Response to "What was Ayesha's Age..."

Thanks for the email. But I find it woefully lacking in actual quotes. The response is filled with "so and so said such and such". That doesn't cut it. In my paper, that deals with Aisha and her age, I not only say who says what, but I provide the entire quote. You need to do the same. And, the man which the paper was quoting from refers to Tabari. Well, Tabari also says Aisha was 9... did your "learned" one miss that? If you need the reference, check my paper. Further, I also quote from Bukhari, and there are many quotes concerning Aisha's age in that. Bukhari is the most highly respected hadith, so, you're going to have to do better then conjecture and assumptions. Finally, there is Abu Dawud's quote as well.... all exclusively saying Aisha was 9. Don't forget, Islamic custom says men can marry girls after their first menstruation. Girls today have them as young as age 9. If you could find that actual quotes from the author's your scholar is quoting from, that would be beneficial. Otherwise, his arugement is only hot air; it lacks real substance.


Reply

My answer was for your satisfaction, not for a debate, and I therefore avoided all the actual quotes. I am extremely sorry for that.

In any case, I provide below my references as well as my answers to the "comments" of your Christian friend:

The First Argument

My first argument was:

Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.

I am sure your Christian friend can see that this argument does not need any reference. It is a simple fact.

The Second Argument

My second argument was:

It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the event [from him], even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years.

Again, the argument that all those who heard this narrative from Hisham ibn `urwah were Iraqis, is a simple statement of fact. This can be checked in the biographical sketches of these narrators in any of the books written on the narrators.

The Third Argument

My third argument was:

Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq. (vol 11, pg 48 - 51)



The actual statements, their translations and their complete references are given below:

i.e. "Yaqub ibn Shaibah says: He [Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after moving over to Iraq." (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol 11, pg 50)

i.e. "I have been told that Malik [ibn Anas] objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq." (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol 11, pg 50)

The Fourth Argument

My fourth argument was:

Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the [life sketches of the] narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly. (vol 4, pg 301 - 302)

The actual statement, its translation and its complete references is given below:

i.e. "when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly" (Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, Al-Zahbi, Arabic, Al-Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol 4, pg 301)

The Fifth Argument

My fifth argument was:

According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

The actual statements referred to in the above paragraph, their translations and their complete references are given below:

i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

The Sixth Argument

My sixth argument was:

According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in Badr is given in Muslim, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab karahiyati'l-isti`anah fi'l-ghazwi bikafir. Ayesha (ra) while narrating the journey to Badr and one of the important events that took place in that journey, says:


i.e. "when we reached Shajarah". It is quite obvious from these words that Ayesha (ra) was with the group travelling towards Badr.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal.

i.e. "Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-i-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hinderance in their movement]."

As far as the fact that children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to particpate in the battle of `uhud, it is narrated in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b, Arabic. i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."


The Seventh Argument

My seventh argument was:

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

The relevant references required in this argument are provided below:

For the Difference of Ayesha's (ra) and Asma's (ra) Age
According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd:

i.e. Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)

According to Ibn Kathir:
i.e. "she [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)


For Asma's (ra) Age at Her Death in 73 AH
According to Ibn Kathir:

i.e. "She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, five days later she herself died, according to other narratives her death was not five but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old." (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:

i.e. "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)

The Eighth Argument

My eighth argument was:

Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.

The original statement in Tabari, its translation and reference follows:
i.e. "All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period."(Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, Vol 4, Pg 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979)

The Ninth Argument

My ninth argument was:

According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before `umar ibn al-Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam.

According to Ibn Hisham, Ayesha (ra) was the 20th or the 21st person to enter into the folds of Islam (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh) While `umar ibn al-khattab was preceded by forty individuals (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

The Tenth Argument

My tenth argument was:

Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am -- with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, and subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.

Unfortunately, I do not have the primary reference to this argument at the moment. The secondary reference for this argument is: Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Urdu, Pg 38, Anjuman Uswa e hasanah, Karachi, Pakistan

The Eleventh Argument

My eleventh argument was:

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".

The complete reference for this reporting of Ahmad ibn Hanbal is: Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut.

The Twelfth Argument

My twelfth argument was:

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.

Ibn Hajar's original statement, its translation and reference follows:
i.e. Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Ayesha (ra). (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)

These are all the references for the material I provided in my initial response.

Your Christian friend, besides asking for these references has also briefly commented on my reply, he writes:

And, the man which the paper was quoting from refers to Tabari. Well, Tabari also says Aisha was 9... did your "learned" one miss that? If you need the reference, check my paper.

Further, I also quote from Bukhari, and there are many quotes concerning Aisha's age in that. Bukhari is the most highly respected hadith, so, you're going to have to do better then conjecture and assumptions.

Finally, there is Abu Dawud's quote as well.... all exclusively saying Aisha was 9.

It seems that your friend has missed out on my point on Hisham ibn `urwah. He seems to be unaware of the fact that each one of his quoted statement, whether it is from Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim or Abu Dawud, is either narrated by Hisham ibn `urwah or is reported to the respective author by or through an Iraqi. Not even a single narrative is free from either of the two problems.

I have quoted Tabari, Bukhari and Muslim to show that even their own information contradicts with the narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age. Thus, when the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) age is not reliable and when there is information in the same books that contradicts the narrative of Ayesha's age, I see absolutely no reason to believe that the information on Ayesha's (ra) age is accepted (when there are adequate grounds to reject it) and other (contradictory) information is rejected (when there is no ground to reject it).

Regards,

The Learner

*The answer to this question is primarily based on the research by Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi (urdu) as presented in his booklet, "Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat", Anjuman Uswa e hasanah, Karachi, Pakistan

More on Ayesha’s Age

I would like to see your response to the following which is relevant to Aisha's age question of your site.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5603/aishah.html

An Intermediate Response…

I have read the referred article. I really do not think that it needs any reply from my side, as it relies on the very sources that I have presented my reservations upon. In case it has raised any questions in your mind, I shall be glad to answer them. But without any specific questions I really don't see any reason why I should write any thing else on the issue.

regards

The Learner


Clarification

You state in your article that the hadith of Aisha's age is narrated by only one narrator, Hisham ibn `urwah, after he moved to Iraq at the age of 71.

But according to Robert Squires:

"... two were narrated from 'Aishah (7:64 and 7:65), one from Abu Hishaam (5:236) and one via 'Urwa (7:88). All three of the ahadith in Saheeh Muslim have 'Aishah as a narrator. Additionally, all of the ahadith in both books agree that the marriage betrothal contract took place when 'Aishah was "six years old", but was not consummated until she was "nine years old".

I would like to see some clarification on this point.

Thanks.

Reply

I would first of all like to make a small (part) correction to the the first point in my article. I had written:

Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.

In fact, although it is Hisham ibn `Urwah who is reporting most of these narratives, but it is not him, but his father `Urwah who is common in all these narratives. It must be remembered that when I say that all these narratives have been reported through `Urwah, it means that it is only the narratives of `Urwah in which the chain of narrators are acceptably strong. Besides the narratives of `Urwah, there do exist five other chains of narrators reporting the same thing, but those chains include people who have either been strongly or lightly criticised by the some of the scholars and compilers of the lives of the reporters of Hadith.

Even though this correction of names from Hisham ibn `Urwah to his father, `Urwah does not have much of an effect on my arguments, as my statement: "…An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three" holds good in both the cases. Other facts that do not change include that there is not a single tradition that comes with an all-Medinan chain of narrators, where Ayesha spent most of her life. There is hardly (if at all) any exception to the fact that all the chains of this report include one or more Iraqi or one or more Basri in them. This makes the credibility of the reports ascribed to `Urwah’s somewhat questionable too.

Now, let us take a look at the article you have referred to. Besides the point that you have raised, I wish to present my reservations on one more point of this article, that is giving the narratives describing Ayesha’s age the status of Sunnah. Let us first take up the point you have raised.

I had stated previously and have reiterated here that all the dependable narratives of this report come through one person – `urwah. Mr. Robert Squires, on the other hand states:

Of the four ahadith in Saheeh al-Bukhari, two were narrated from 'Aishah (7:64 and 7:65), one from Abu Hishaam (5:236) and one via 'Ursa (7:88). All three of the ahadith in Saheeh Muslim have 'Aishah as a narrator.

I think there is a spelling error in this statement of Mr. Squires. It seems that the name of the third narrator should be `Urwah or `Urwa rather than `Ursa. I request Mr. Squires to correct me if I am wrong. Another thing that needs to be clarified is that Abu Hishaam and `Urwah are the same person. `Urwah, because of his son Hishaam, was also called Abu Hishaam, according to the Arab tradition.

In response to your question on the apparent contradiction in my statement when compared with that of Mr. Squires’, I would only like to say that it is just a case of a simple misunderstanding. This misunderstanding can easily be removed by a little more understanding of the two statements.

When Mr. Squires states that these reports come to us from different sources, he is really considering only the first person (sahabi or ta’bi`y) in the chain of narrators of these reports. On the other hand, when I say that these reports are only (or mostly) reported by one narrator only, it means that even though the first person in the chain of these reports changes there is common narrator in all these reports. Just to clarify, take the example of the four reportings of Sahih Bukhari. According to Mr Squires: "Of the four ahadith in Saheeh al-Bukhari, two were narrated from 'Aishah (7:64 and 7:65), one from Abu Hishaam (5:236) and one via 'Ursa [`Urwa or `Urwah??] (7:88)." Now if you consider Mr. Squires’ statement, he is only referring to the first person in the chain of narrators in his statement. The statement is not wrong or misquoted. But on the other hand, if you take a look at the chain of narrators of the four reportings of Sahih Bukhari, you shall see that in the first two cases, Ayesha’s (ra) statement has been quoted by none other than `Urwah – Abu Hishaam (the father of Hishaam). In the later two cases, it is (Mr. Squires is requested to correct me if I am mistaken) `Urwah – Abu Hishaam – who is being referred to by Mr. Squires. I think the above explanation should suffice as clarification that you desired.

Mr. Squires has also implied in his referred article that these narratives describing Ayesha’s (ra) age are a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). He states:

At this point, it should be mentioned that it is absolutely pointless from an Islamic standpoint to say that the age of 'Aishah is "not found in the Qur'an", since the textual sources of Islam are made up of both the Qur'an and the Sunnah - and the Qur'an tells us that.

Mr. Squires has also referred to an article by Mr. Suhaib Hasan (http://home.att.net/~r-squires/sunnah.htm) in which Mr. Hasan has defined Sunnah as:

… the Sunnah includes the sayings of the Prophet, peace be upon him, known commonly as hadiths (i.e. sayings), his practices, and actions which gained his approval.

In my view, the above statement, though commonly accepted by Muslims, does not accurately describe Sunnah. But for the purpose of this discussion, let us take this to be an accurate explanation of Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). But even then, the narratives describing Ayesha’s (ra) age at the time of her marriage do not fall under the scope of Sunnah. Obviously, the narrative of Ayesha’s (ra) age at the time of her marriage is not a part of "the sayings of the Prophet, (peace be upon him)", it cannot be termed as the Prophet’s "practices" and neither can it be included in the "actions which gained his approval". The narrative of Ayesha’s age is just a narrative of a historical event. Just because it has been reported by Bukhari and Muslim, does not change its status from being a narrative of a historical event to a Sunnah. Because of this fact, this narrative should be seen in the light of all other narratives of historical events which have been reported by Bukhari, Muslim and other historians of Islam. This is exactly what I have tried to do in my article from point number 5 to 12.

In the presence of all these historical narratives that contradict the narrative of Ayesha’s age at the time of her marriage, any one who wants to prove that Ayesha (ra) was nine years at the time of consummation of her marriage has the responsibility of telling others why is he rejecting all the other historical narratives and accepting only the one that states Ayesha’s age to be nine at the time of her marriage.

I hope this helps.

The Learner
_________________
"They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths,
but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected,
even though the Unbelievers may detest." [Quran 9:32]

[adnan]

[SMHA]

Why don't you let the readers decide the matter. You ahave habit of asking question which have been answered in the post but for some reason known only to you, you find this a way to just respond and distract people.

[adnan]

SMHA,
So basically, again, you could'nt refute anything I said, hence your post stands refuted.
Lets see what other readers have to say.

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

[naqim]

[quote="adnan"]

[salmany]

Sallam

Adnan obviously you dont know that basics of Rijal but what can you expect from a man who didnt know Abu Hanif or the 4 sunni imams came before bukhari etc !!!

I can see you have immense knowledge in the subject of islam
_________________
Islam is Haq...

[adnan]

Naqim, thanks, yes I know was what written.

Salmany
You like to bump in when not needed and when asked for a reply, you disappear.
Salman, hear this for once: I dont care what the Imams were, who they were, when they were born, or even WHAT THEY SAID.
The sources I USE to evaluate Islam are QURAN and HADITH. Thats IT.
Imams are biased brain-washers, they will say what they want to say.
When Allah has said "we have made the Quran clear and easy to understand", why do you need third person to convey Islam's message?

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

[Michael]

Aisha was a CHILD, 9, 10, 11 what does it matter, and Mohammed was guilty of child-sex-abuse, statutory-rape of a minor, a paedophile, who set the standard for the child-abuse and slavery that still continues to this day due to the idiocy of those following such a perverted and delusional power-freak.
A moral example?.....I don't think so!

[salmany]

Sallam

Adnan you have just given away your credentials with your oblivious statement. Not to say you were trusted before. By saying you dont follow the Imams. So sad , ever heard of taqleed in islam? If you have not keep your mouth Shut and learn something before talking. The Quran and Hadith need intepretation etc which YOU OR ME are unable to do.

SMHA has provided ISNAD on the basisi of which hadith is accepted or rejected. He has proven his case. If you can show otherwise do so through ISNAD not your opinion!

Sallam

ps im waiting
_________________
Islam is Haq...

[adnan]

SalmanY,

[salmany]

Sallam

Yes i cna acyually i have convinced some. However, remember what the Quran says regarding the Majority

Oh wait...you havent read the Quran...doh!
_________________
Islam is Haq...

[adnan]

Salman,
Who did you convince? I will need to talk to them. Please invite them here to FFI.
I have read in Quran all that needs to be read and I have read enough to decide that Quran is a negative harmful creation of man and not a message from the Creator. If you can convince me otherwise, and if you think I have missed important parts of the Quran, tell me which parts I missed.

You ignored my question again about Quran claiming to be clear in its message. Please see my above post again.

Adnan

[youth of 'ali]

[adnan]

The Quran says it is clear in its communication and message so everyone can understand:
[2.242] "Allah thus makes clear to you His communications that you may understand."
Thus, the Quran is clear and cannot be allegorical, and saying so would contradict the above ayat.

Why would Allah reveal his Last Message in an allegorical way anyway?
Why not in a clear way? Humans are prone to error, are they not?
Then, why would Allah trust 3rd persons to explain his so-important Last Message to humanity to the masses?

Can you trust a 5 year old child to drive your BMW?
Can and should Allah trust error-prone humans to explain his Last Message to humanity?

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

[CroMagnon]

[bush badee]

This discussion is interesting.
I understand Mohammed (JK&CM) consumated his marriage with aisha when she was around 9, but it is my understanding that he married her around 6.

In any case, I believe that according to Hourami he first noted her and took an interest in her when she was about 3 years of age and expressed interest in her on another two occaisons before he married her.

But all this is nonsense and really immaterial.
The fact is that there is not a single contempory document that mentions Mohammed (JK&CM).

In fact nothing was written about him till a couple hundred years after his birth, and Much as with
Jesus, there is no absolute proof of either of their existances.

Intersting. but no autographic or even copied documents exist.
_________________
to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com

[youth of 'ali]

[adnan]

youth of ali,
Every person is unique and has seperate opinions.
If Allah knew this, he would not depend on Scholars to explain Islam to the masses.
As CroMagnon also said above, the scholars of Islam have done more harm to Islam than good, by having divided opinions and being the cause of the large number of sects and divisions in Islam.
Can Allah trust error-prone humans to explain his Last Message to humanity?
Why would Allah reveal his Last Message in an allegorical way and why not in a clear easy-to-understand way?
If you want to believe in God, you should leave Islam and beleive in christianity or Hinduism, they are much better religions than Islam and they also believe in Gods. Surely, they may have some senseless ideas, but atleast they are not hated and detested like Islam is.
Its much easier to be a hindu or a christian, unless you're living in a muslim country. You can be a hidden apostate like me too, and enjoy the best of both worlds.

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

[bush badee]

Adnan, Man has created Gd in his image.
I do not believe that Christianity is any better than Islam.
Both have very pagan roots.

Lest you think I do not believe let me tell you I have absolutely no faith in the existance of GD.

I have no faith in the existance of Gd because Gd robbed me of my faith by replacing it with the sure knowledge of his existance. Sure knowledge precludes faith which means it is some thing you do not know if it is true or not, by definition.

I came into Gd's presence one evening on a lonely road.
There were thousands of cars passing by, but along side that road even with all those cars there, when you are in trouble, it is very lonely.

That evening I came into Gd's presence and he revoked all the laws of physics.
I saw a mirricle preformed.
Not something with a million or even a billion in one chance of happening. (My life being spared may have been one in a million but my son's, well there was 0 possibility of what happened to him happening. It bent all the laws of physics.)

I can tell you that all the rigermarole is man telling you what They think Gd wants.
Non of them really know.
They claim to be doing Gd's work, but my GD, who did the things he did, that night, does not need any one to do his work.

I do not believe in organized religion, although I do agree it has a very important place in mens lives but I know GD exists and I know Christianity is paganism.
_________________
to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com

[adnan]

bush, some people need to and want to beleive in God. Do you have a better alternative to Christianity and Hindusim, please let me know so we can tell them.

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

[bush badee]

adnan wrote