Faith Freedom International

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Dear everybody,

This is my first post. I am the partner of an ex-muslim woman and I want to use this opportunity to tell you about the difficulties she and I faced - and still do.

At the time we fell in love, she was still a muslim. I, however, was not, am not and will never be. Still, I have pondered with the thought of converting to islam, for the sake of being able to marry my beloved. She told me right from the beginning that if we wanted to get married, I had to convert. We both decided to leave that for the future and enjoy things first.

The problems came when our relationship became more serious. I told my parents about my partner and the things she and I faced. My parents were shocked and even stated that they could not accept me converting to islam. I was utterly frustrated and had no idea what to do.

I repeatedly asked my partner whether there was something we could do in order for me to avoid converting to islam. She said there was no option because the Quran states that a muslim woman cannot marry a non-muslim man. Besides, the law of her native country would never grant the permission for us to marry.

Such is the discrimination of islam. Why can't I be respected for what I am? Why must I convert in order to marry her? Why can't I stay the way I am and she stay the way she is and be happy together? If islam is truely the perfect religion as is often claimed, then it would not have brought us this misery and imposed these problems to us.

Do I hate muslims? No, I do not. In fact, most of the nicest people I have met are muslim. I have enjoyed muslim hospitality and muslim generosity as well as honesty. Yet even despite all this, there is always this barrier between them and me because I am not a moslim. I respect them for what they are, why can't they do the same with me, so that we can all be happy?

Recently my partner left islam. People may claim that it is because of me, but that is a lie. She has done this completely on her own and this is the advice I want to give to those people who have a friend or loved one who is in the process of leaving islam: remain neutral. Encouraging them may backfire in the sense that the person leaving islam may feel pushed. Subsequently, if you do not show any interest at all may backfire too.

My partner and I are still looking for a way to get married. Any help is appreciated.

Karin · Joined: 14 May 2002 Posts: 727 Location: Connecticut

Welcome to the forum, Catnip! Glad to have you, and thank you for your thoughts and advice to others.

Concerning your wish to get married, can you give a general indication of your geographic location? Maybe we have someone here with legal knowledge of your particular area.

If you live in the U.S., you can simply get married at the courthouse and leave religion completely out of it.
_________________
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of those who would deny us happiness"

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Madam_Rouge · Joined: 28 Dec 2002 Posts: 176 Location: USA

If your girlfriend has a valid work visa, she doesnt need to involve her country in her marriage decision. All she needs to do is go to the court house, (or whatever its called there) and show identification, and they will give you guys a marriage license and you can even get married there as well the same day. You might even try to talk her into seeking assylum if she is afraid of the backlash back home due to her decision, given the fact that spouses arent always granted residence in certain countries so soon after marriage, and if her visa expires she would have to return to her homeland. So you should look into those things.

yeezevee · Joined: 20 May 2002 Posts: 2300

Catnip:

PatriotMissile · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 58

I think it would be a good idea to point out to women things that they should know about Islam.

Crying or Very sad

>Firstly, It is written that "....women are not and can never be as intelligent as men..."

Crying or Very sad

>Secondly, It is written that "....it is acceptable to lie to a woman...."

These are powerful points that I think can help more women leave Islam. Smile

After all, who wants to belong to a club that does not respect you?

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Dear Madam Rouge and yeezeevee,

Thank you for your kind replies.

I have done some digging around lately and in theory we should be able to get a certificate in the EU which is valid in ANY country, therefore it should be even in the country of birth of my beloved. The problem of course may be that her birth country won't accept it.

To yeezeevee

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Robert · Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 554 Location: Germany

Mission_Impossible · Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 826 Location: New York, USA

Hey Catnip,

I am gonna marry a Muslim girl soon, she's not a fanatic and is open minded. There are many open minded Muslims out there, especially Muslim women...

Kind Regards,

MI
_________________
"This looks like a job for me, so everybody, just follow me, coz we need a little, contreversy, coz it feels so empty, without me!" - EMINEM

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adnan · Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:17 pm Post subject:

MI,
Thats surprising, her family must be almost ex-Muslim because Quran has specifically ordered in a clear verse that Muslim women must NOT marry non-Muslim men. Are you and her aware of this? Explain these verses to her and tell her that you are shocked and disappointed that this is how Islam views non-beleivers. Tell her the truth of Islam and tell her to leave Islam, since it doesnt make any sense.

loranga · Joined: 01 Jan 2003 Posts: 1391 Location: Sweden

Susan · Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 2727 Location: none

Dear Catnip,

It is fine that you are getting married in the West but after you marry you will probably not be able to visit your wife's native country as husband and wife. In some of these countries you could be imprisoned or worse for cohabitating with a Muslim woman.

Is it really so important to visit your fiancee's native country as her husband? Maybe it is just one of the things you have to forego in order to be happily married. Stay in the West and let your wife visit her relatives alone.

Best of luck with your situation.
_________________
The Sudanese Civil war has killed 2 million people and pushed 4 million tribespeople off their ancestral lands.

arifqurashi · Joined: 27 Feb 2002 Posts: 322

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Dear everybody,

Thank you all for your kind replies and efforts to help us out. I appreciate
it Very Happy

I have the feeling that there is some confusion, so I'll explain the situation a bit more.

I am from Europe. My partner has recently left islam (of course this can never be made legal). For security reasons we have to remain anonymous.

I have contacted the authorities here and have been informed that we can get married here. The problem is my partner, who is not registered here. She needs to have a certificate from her birth country saying that she's single (and therefore, I think, available for marriage. The authorities there won't give it to her without me showing proof that I have converted to islam. This is the main obstacle. Secondly, it needs to be signed by her parents, which is the last thing we want.

However, we have yesterday found a way to get the document via her embassy with some fiddling and hassling.

So in principle we should be able to get married the civil way.

Of course, her family won't like it and we cannot ever go to her native country as a married couple. That is the downside.

Catnip

Robert · Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 554 Location: Germany

Hi Catnip,

it is a shame, but I have heard of cases in Germany where German (!)authorities have acted the way described by you. I.E. when an-actually-born-but-not-believing muslim woman e.g. from Morocco wanted to marry a (non-muslim) German man, the German(!) authorities suddenly would apply the morrocan laws in Germany that prohibit the marriage of a muslim woman with a non-muslim man and completely ignore the free will and decision of that particular morrocan woman.

This is why I wondered, whether you, Catnip, maybe are from Germany.

But I understand your worries that your anonymity might not be sure.
_________________
"Le premier prophète fut le premier fripon qui rencontra un imbécile." -

"The first prophet was the first crook who met a sucker."

Voltaire (1694-1778)

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Guest · Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:05 am Post subject:

adnan · Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:11 pm Post subject:

dear Catnip,
If you could ask your partner to write her story of how she left Islam and post it in the Testimonials section:
http://forum.faithfreedom.org/viewforum.php?f=30
, that would be great and will help other Muslims leave Islam

thanks in advance.
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

Unknown 3 · Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 91

Yes she will in the future. Please understand that at the moment our situation is difficult: if her family were to find out by some means that she's an apostate (by e.g. coming here and seeing her testimonial), it may very well be that I'll never ever see her again. That's too much to lose!

She has told me many things about what happens in her birthcountry to people who try to leave islam or are suspected of apostacy. It's utterly horrifying! I can't risk that, though thank you for your reply.

Karin · Joined: 14 May 2002 Posts: 727 Location: Connecticut

Hi Catnip,

First of all let me say Congratulations! on finding a way around the beurocracy. I wish you much happiness.

Second of all, you say that your fiance has many horror stories of what happens to apostates in her mother country. There is a thread called "Apostacy" in the Muhammed section. Two people are arguing about whether or not the punishment for apostacy is death. If you would like to contribute with real-life examples, it would be helpful I think.

(A muslim is claiming: there is no death, an apostate is saying: you'd better believe there is!)
_________________
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of those who would deny us happiness"

adnan · Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:36 pm Post subject:

Well catnip, congratulations and I wish you both good luck for a happy long married life. Smile

.
Your signature says "no PM's". Are most of the PM's by Muslims and if yes, can you tell us what they are telling you? (I want to see how they are reacting).
I look forward to hearing of how she left Islam. I wish infact, this whole incidenct was made into a movie, just like the movie "Not without my daughter".
Here is the link to the Apostacy thread Karin mentioned:
http://forum.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?t=4973&start=154

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."