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Faith Freedom International
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mughal200
Joined: 16 Feb 2002
Posts: 485
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 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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According to brother abdullahnoor purpose of revelation seems to be to follow people's likes and dislikes rather than Allah dictating what his law is regardless whether people like it or loath it.
This shows Allah is confused as regard what he should tell people to do or not to do.
Now brother Abdullah is slave of such a god so no wonder he too is confused.
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All the best, from Mughal at
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http://www.religionandsecularism3.gq.nu |
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CroMagnon
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2112
Location: West Kafiristan
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Farside
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 324
Location: The Other Side
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:57 am Post subject: |
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CroMagnon, The International Hadith Study Association Network (IHSAN) has an
| Quote: | | Hadith Encyclopedia database containing a searchable version of the text and indices of the Seven Canonical Hadith Collections: Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abi Daud, Sunan al-Tirmidhi,Sunan al-Nasa"i, Sunan Ibn Maja and the Muwatta" Malik. [N.B. By the middle of 2003 the following four collections of hadith should be printed with their annexes and added to the Database: Sunan al-Darimi, Musnad of al- Humaydi, Sunan al-Daraqutni and the Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal. After this at least one or more major hadith collections will be printed each year. |
I curious about what the other SEVEN hadith collections (Sunan al-Tirmidhi,Sunan al- Nasa";i, Sunan Ibn Maja, Sunan al-Darimi, Musnad of al-Humaydi, Sunan al-Daraqutni and the Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal) say about the sex with slaves.
Have you notice the Hadiths are multiplying like rabbits? 
The internet site is http://www.ihsanetwork.org/ihsan-home1.asp?lang=e
Could FFI obtain an institutional membership with the IHSAN? Probably not. 
From the Far Side  |
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CroMagnon
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2112
Location: West Kafiristan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Thanx for the link, farside
That would be very interesting indeed, to have the other collections online also ... especially al-Tirmidhi ... answering-islam quotes a lot from this collection, as well as quite some Saudi sites .... and some of the things i read there leave me even more shocked & amazed than some of the hadiths compiled in the collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud or Mailk..  ...
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Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
"every hour 667 muslims are converting to christianity" |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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*whispers* I think abdullah has finally started to give in to our arguments...I'm hoping  He hasnt posted in days! 
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KAMIKAZE WATERMELON! 
Fischerspooner is weird..but cool |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Crow wrote: | | *whispers* I think abdullah has finally started to give in to our arguments...I'm hoping He hasnt posted in days! |
In my last post, I predicted,
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But I know for sure, you Muslim-haters will keep this thread alive! Why? Because to Muslim-haters, the slime against Muhammad (p) and Islam must live on!
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True to my prediction Muslim-haters did exactly that!
Notice these Muslim-haters still missed the two most important points of this thread, that is the real propagators of sex slavery, (the Bible), is still unscathed, and that the principle of using explicit verses is dumped like a hot iron, just when it is found that it works against their previous arguments?
Just a sidenote. Notice it takes a dozen Muslim-haters to attack just one jihadi? Reminds you of the Vietnam and Iraq wars huh? One Cong or Iraqi is able to hold off a whole platoon of US Marines.
Well, you may carry on with this thread if you wish. I shall start another topic, soon.
See you around suckos!
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If you deny that the universe was designed, then by default, you are saying the universe occurred by chance.
If you say, “Your belief in Allah is unscientific!", I will say, “So is your belief in chance!”  |
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Student
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Abdullah,
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Notice these Muslim-haters still missed the two most important points of this thread, that is the real propagators of sex slavery, (the Bible), is still unscathed,
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Yeah of course. After all, you still haven't showed us from the "sex-slavery-supporting" Bible how Jesus, the main man of Christianity, was a buyer, seller, owner or middle man in the slave trade. Too bad for Islam that its main man, Muhammad, was actively involved in slavery and sex-slavery. If you want to blame anyone, blame Muhammad for dragging Islam's name through mud.
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Just a sidenote. Notice it takes a dozen Muslim-haters to attack just one jihadi? Reminds you of the Vietnam and Iraq wars huh? One Cong or Iraqi is able to hold off a whole platoon of US Marines. |
That's right. Muslims are great fighters. It took only a handful of devout Muslims, armed with nothing more than paper-cutters, to fly planes into buildings, causing billions of $$$ in damages and killing thousands.
In the current war with Iraq, it also took only one Muslim and three hand-grenades to surprise and kill 2 fellow soldiers and wound about another dozen.
Yeah, you Muslims are great fighters. I concede that to you.
| Quote: | | Well, you may carry on with this thread if you wish. I shall start another topic, soon. |
Running off like a whipped dog before even substantiating any of your points?? Yeah go ahead! |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| abdullahnoor wrote: | | Crow wrote: | | *whispers* I think abdullah has finally started to give in to our arguments...I'm hoping He hasnt posted in days! |
In my last post, I predicted,
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But I know for sure, you Muslim-haters will keep this thread alive! Why? Because to Muslim-haters, the slime against Muhammad (p) and Islam must live on!
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True to my prediction Muslim-haters did exactly that!
Notice these Muslim-haters still missed the two most important points of this thread, that is the real propagators of sex slavery, (the Bible), is still unscathed, and that the principle of using explicit verses is dumped like a hot iron, just when it is found that it works against their previous arguments?
Just a sidenote. Notice it takes a dozen Muslim-haters to attack just one jihadi? Reminds you of the Vietnam and Iraq wars huh? One Cong or Iraqi is able to hold off a whole platoon of US Marines.
Well, you may carry on with this thread if you wish. I shall start another topic, soon.
See you around suckos! |
And what does our continuing to post on this thread have to do with anything?
Suckos? Aw, I'm sorry, did you mean suckers? Like yourself? If youre going to play the name calling game, at least try to keep yourself somewhat dignified by learning the proper spelling!
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KAMIKAZE WATERMELON!
Fischerspooner is weird..but cool |
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cardinalfedra
Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 584
Location: Isle of Lucy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Notice these Muslim-haters still missed the two most important points of this thread, that is the real propagators of sex slavery, (the Bible), is still unscathed, and that the principle of using explicit verses is dumped like a hot iron, just when it is found that it works against their previous arguments? |
Gee maybe if you could just give us a history of the Islamic Anti-Slavery Society. For if certain verses in the Koran did indeed abolish slavery, there would be at least a few Muslims who took those verses to heart and started a movement. Who were the Islamic counterparts to Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth? |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Crow
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Suckos? Aw, I'm sorry, did you mean suckers?
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Where I come from, we pronounce it as “sucko”. “Sucker” has a different meaning.
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If youre going to play the name calling game, at least try to keep yourself somewhat dignified by learning the proper spelling!
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Well, if you insist. See you around then, sucker!
(Oooh! She’s a lady and she sucks! )
_________________
If you deny that the universe was designed, then by default, you are saying the universe occurred by chance.
If you say, “Your belief in Allah is unscientific!", I will say, “So is your belief in chance!” |
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scepsis
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="abdullahnoor
Where I come from, we pronounce it as “sucko”. “Sucker” has a different meaning. ;)
What does "sucko" mean, then? |
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scepsis
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:43 am Post subject: |
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And again....
You really are remarkably skilled, abdullahnoor, at not answering inconvenient questions. Not just these questions but all down this thread and all over the site. Is this because you cannot answer them or because you dare not answer them?
Is your printed laugh supposed to be a high-pitched hysterical giggle or the deep sinister Valentine Dyall variety? Could you give pitch guidance next time?
A few questions, abdullahnoor. You probably won't answer them, but...
A female slave can acquire her "freedom" by letting her owner fuck her and get her pregnant and/or marry her. What choice does she have? What can her owner do to her, as punishment, under islamic law, if she rejects or resists this? Does the owner have the right to rape her- or, rather, commit what would be rape if she weren't a piece of property- if she is so foolish as to reject his very reasonable offers?
You say that this would lead to the abolition of slavery. How long, do you think it would have taken before slavery vanished using this method?
Why didn't Mahomet, if he disapproved of slavery (except slavery to his idea of god) simply announce a time after which no slaves could be taken?
If "what Islam teaches" is so good, why is "what Muslims do" so bad an example? When did "what Muslims do" stop being a good example to the rest of us?[/quote]
A few more points for you to consider:
"The real propagator of sex slavery is still unscathed." Is sex slavery, then, yet another idea Mahomet stole from some one else?
There is also your idea of "freedom". Let us look at it in this context. A slave may gain her "freedom" by letting her owner fuck her and get pregnant. He may even marry her. However, as she is a slave her owner can fuck her anyway, and not "free" her if he pleases. There are certain advantages to marriage: the size of the stick with which he can beat her is smaller than if she were still a slave. Her owner/husband can divorce her as he pleases; he has full authority over the children which gained her her "freedom"; slave or "free" she is dependent on him and he has power over her.
At first sight, this is a strange kind of "freedom". It is only when we examine the "freedom" enjoyed by moslems that we see that you are perfectly sincere in thinking that this is "freedom" and proof of the virtues of islam.
After all, a "free" moslem is a "slave of god". Slave to the idea of a creature far more brutal, far more cruel, far more intolerant, far more arbitrary and far more powerful than any merely human slave owner could ever be. A "free" moslem is expected to grovel before his owner five times a day, to be grateful for and praise his owner for all that he does and to accept any cruelty his owner perpetrates to test his obedience. The "freedom" of a moslem is the "freedom" to do willingly what fate will make him do anyway. Even his freedom to fuck his slaves is foreordained. A moslem does not fuck for fun, but for god. Elsewhere I compared a moslem to a lapdog. This was unfair. There is far more equality between a dog and its owner that there is between a slave of god and his owner, so what can one expect for the slave of a slave of god?
The tragedy is to see an intelligent person devoting intelligence to justify these monstrosities.
What an infinite mock is this, that a man should have the best use of eyes to see the path to blindness. |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| abdullahnoor wrote: | Crow
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Suckos? Aw, I'm sorry, did you mean suckers?
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Where I come from, we pronounce it as “sucko”. “Sucker” has a different meaning.
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If youre going to play the name calling game, at least try to keep yourself somewhat dignified by learning the proper spelling!
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Well, if you insist. See you around then, sucker!
(Oooh! She’s a lady and she sucks! ) |
Well hardy-effin-har!
Accually, I've never done anything like that. Besides, that sort of thing is none of your damn buisness, pervert  And besides, if youre going to use foreign insults, well, of course no one is going to get it! Dosent make anyone stupid, it just means they are not familier with your strange jargon.Heh-lo! 
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KAMIKAZE WATERMELON!
Fischerspooner is weird..but cool
Last edited by Crow on Fri May 09, 2003 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hinduwoman
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 1092
Location: India
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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I utterly condemn the bible for propagating slavery and even agree that the Bible is where Arabian culture got its slavery system from. Now I have done that, please answer:
what official Christian states, or states with predominant Christian population practise slavery, legally or covertly?
Why was slavery never abolished anywhere in Islamic states through all these centuries, until the West forced them to do so?
why did Muhammad take and keep slaves? surely if he wanted to set an example the best thing would have been not to take any slaves, or to free them as soon as he got them so that his followers would know this is the preferred way.
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May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor. |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:08 am Post subject: |
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scepsis
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What does "sucko" mean, then?
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“Sucko” still means “stupid” as in “sucker”, but pronounced with an “o” instead of an “er” at the end.
If it is pronounced as “sucker”, then it could have a different meaning other than being stupid.
Crow demonstrated that quite efficiently and effectively without my help.
Crow
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Accually, I've never done anything like that.
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Of course I know you never did that. You, through your own free will, in the Aisha thread, confessed that you prefer to be playing with yourself, ie masturbation, because you consider yourself way above giving in to any guy.
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Besides, that sort of thing is none of your damn buisness, pervert
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I never prodded into anyone’s personal life, least of all yours! You volunteered the info yourself!
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And besides, if youre going to use foreign insults, well, of course no one is going to get it!
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But you did!
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Dosent make anyone stupid, it just means they are not familier with your strange jargon.
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But you demonstrated that even if you are not familiar, you got exactly what I meant.
_________________
If you deny that the universe was designed, then by default, you are saying the universe occurred by chance.
If you say, “Your belief in Allah is unscientific!", I will say, “So is your belief in chance!” |
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Chingachgook
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 261
Location: White Eagle Land
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| hinduwoman wrote: |
I utterly condemn the bible for propagating slavery and even agree that the Bible is where Arabian culture got its slavery system from......... |
You said it all, yeah! Oh gosh..... Yes! The title of this thread says it all: "Mohammad propogated sex slavery ....Look no more  " He conveniently took off from where it was left, in the Old Testament thinking it will be the norm in hundreds or thousands of years to come!
How can Islam ever be a "complete way of life" when what moHAMmad did is no more acceptable to human instinct now! How was it possible Allah did not forsee this and a host of other unacceptable acts (killing of infidels, slaying of apostate, stoning....) I am saying this because Muslims use to brag about having the MOST COMPLETE BOOK and that Islam was a complete way of life because the Quran has everything about every aspect of life?
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Sir Chingachgook |
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nomad
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | One Cong or Iraqi is able to hold off a whole platoon of US Marines. |
Ever heard of gunny Hathcock and what he (alone) did to an entire battalion of the NVA ? As a jihadi, you're losing...
As to your assertion that Jesus was here to fulfill the law. What laws are you talking about ? Jesus was celibate, so what laws of the OT regarding marriage and sex (Songs of Solomon was pretty juicy) did he fulfilled ? When the rich man asked Jesus how to be his follower, Jesus told him to give away his wealth. Which part of the OT regarding personal wealth did Jesus fulfilled ? So did Jesus actually fulfilled spiritual or temporal laws ? Considering the fact that Jesus predated Mohamed, and his conduct during his short 33 yrs life, how does that compared Jesus morally to Mohamed's ?
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Ignorance is Bliss, and I am Happy only 49 percent of the Time. |
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missionms
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:05 am Post subject: |
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One definition of the word fulfill is: bring to completion
That is what the Bible means.
However Jesus also kept all the Mosaic laws. I think that means the spirit of the laws.
Comparing Jesus to Mohammed is like comparing a beautiful horse to a termite. Actually much worse. They aren't the same "species."
I personally don't think it is a good idea to compare Him to anyone.
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I count only two men rational: the man who loves God with all his heart because he has found Him, and the man who seeks God with all his heart because he has, as yet, found Him not. |
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scepsis
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| One unimportant question answered, abdullahnoor; still afraid to think about the others? |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Crow
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Accually, I've never done anything like that.
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(quote)Of course I know you never did that. You, through your own free will, in the Aisha thread, confessed that you prefer to be playing with yourself, ie masturbation, because you consider yourself way above giving in to any guy. (quote)
For your information, the only reason I even brought that up was because I was arguing that everyone does it. If I claim everyone does it and then say I do not, dosent that make me a hypocrite?
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Besides, that sort of thing is none of your damn buisness, pervert
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(quote)I never prodded into anyone’s personal life, least of all yours! You volunteered the info yourself! (quote)
You said I'm a lady and I "suck", how the hell did you expect me to react? You accused me, in a joking manner..of doing something..well, you know what I'm talking about. I took that very offensively.
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And besides, if youre going to use foreign insults, well, of course no one is going to get it!
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(quote)But you did!(quote)
No, YOU said they have different meanings..so how could I have gotten it? I didnt know what the hell "sucko" meant.
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Dosent make anyone stupid, it just means they are not familier with your strange jargon.
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(quote)But you demonstrated that even if you are not familiar, you got exactly what I meant. (quote)
I never claimed to know sucko means stupid. What the hell are you talking about?
[/quote]
Whats so damn funny?
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KAMIKAZE WATERMELON!
Fischerspooner is weird..but cool |
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hinduwoman
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 1092
Location: India
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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What happened to my question about Muhammad taking slaves and using his 'righthand possessions'? why no answer?
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May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor. |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hinduwoman
I do not like to repeat what I have addressed to a newcomer to a thread, especially if the thread has been on for weeks. This thread has been on for weeks and there have been many points discussed.
It is not nice to come and butt in towards the tail end, only to ask the same question that was looming and addressed over that period of time. Your question has already been taken care of before you even made your appearance here.
You can’t find it? Or you did not bother to look for it? Well that actually tells your intention here, doesn’t it? That you came to flood and slime, instead of taking the trouble to understand the issue at hand.
_________________
If you deny that the universe was designed, then by default, you are saying the universe occurred by chance.
If you say, “Your belief in Allah is unscientific!", I will say, “So is your belief in chance!” |
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Do you know if all six hadiths have English translations online? 
