Faith Freedom International

[abdullahnoor]

I have discussed why the “paedophile charge” against Muhammad (p) cannot hold, in the Aisha thread. http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3541&start=0

I concluded my case on page 14 of the above thread. It appears that an anti-Muslim (presumably Ali Sina), must have baited a Muslim (Hamidskey) to make further posts in that thread, after I had drawn my conclusion in that thread. Purpose of the bait was of course, so that other Muslim haters can repost their arguments, the same arguments which I have defeated so effectively, after 14 pages.

Ant-Muslims are so dependent on the Paedophile Charge, they have to fight to the death to keep that slander alive. So now that thread is currently in its 16th page, at time of this post. So after all the talk of discussing issues with rationality purportedly propagated by this site and other Muslim haters, they just have to keep adding irrelevant points and nonsense.

In this post, I would be talking about another wife of Muhammad (p). She is Zaynab, daughter of Jahsh. While the charge in the Aisha issue is “paedophile”, the charge here is that he lusted for Zaynab. Again, it is shown to what level anti-Muslims would stoop to demean the prophet of Islam (p).

It must be noted what was the issue of Zaynab’s marriage at that time. The issue was that it was frowned upon to marry your stepson’s wife. The issue that was on everyone’s lips at time was not lust for Zaynab. However, today’s Muslim haters would like to portray the latter and not the former. They hope to portray the whole issue of Zaynab as a “scandalous triangle love affair”, hoping to tarnish the character of Muhammad (p).

Here is the story of Zaynab, daughter of Jahsh, plain and simple as it was, minus the artificial frills slanderers would like to add, to spice up a Hollywood box hit!

------

Zayd, Muhammad’s stepson, was a slave, who earned his freedom through Muhammad. Khadijah (first wife) bought Zayd the slave and it was Muhammad (saw) who set him free.

Zayd hence knew the Prophet for many years. Zaynab on the other hand was a relative of Muhammad (saw). She was one of his cousins. It can be seen that Muhammad (saw) knew both of them for years.

It was Muhammad (saw) who arranged the marriage between Zayd and Zaynab. When the marriage was arranged, Zaynab’s brother, Abdullah ibn Jahsh, was not too pleased. He was of the opinion that Zayd, being a former slave, should not marry his sister, who had noble links with the Quraishi tribe. To Abdullah, it was a great shame that a slave married into his family. But Muhammad (saw) sought to wipe all prejudices and class distinctions.

Although Zayd was a good man, the marriage was not very happy. Zayd’s past as a slave was a sore point in their marriage. Zaynab derided Zayd and continued to look down upon him. Zayd confided in the Prophet (saw) several times, even asking for divorce. Muhammad (saw) counselled them in an attempt to save the marriage. However, the situation did not improve. (“The Life of Muhammad” by Husein Haykal, translated into English by Ismail Raji Al-Faruqi, pgs 285 to 287 and 294 to 295.)

It was at this juncture, that Allah (swt) revealed that if was so difficult to save the marriage, then it would be better to allow the divorce. The verse also instructed Muhammad to marry Zaynab (Sura 33:37).

The purpose of marriage was two-fold. Firstly, when Zaynab divorced Zayd, she would effectively be a divorcee. One of the functions of Prophets was to set an example. In this case, he took Zaynab, a divorcee as his wife. Marrying divorcees and widows is considered commendable.

Secondly, Zayd, was considered an adopted son of Muhammad (saw). It was a taboo among the pagans that a man cannot marry the wife of an adopted son. The marriage served as a signal to the pagans that this practice and culture had to be abolished.

(You can get the above references from Yusuf Ali’s Translation of the Qur’an, footnote 3726 on pg 1118 and footnotes 3671 and 3672 on pg 1103)

So the story of the marriage between the Prophet (saw) and Zaynab, daughter of Jahsh, who was his adopted son’s wife, was not as sensational as what anti-Muslims would like to portray.

--------

I can expect, like in the Aisha thread, Muslim haters here would try to re-sensationalize the story of Zaynab, daughter of Jahsh, to keep the juicy gossip against the Holy Prophet of Islam (p) alive. After all, this is a hate site, isn’t it?

[doubtless]

Abdullanoor: Did you ever get the time to adress the fiqh issue that you had promised? You yelled a few times in the other thread, and I have been waiting for you to post your reasons why Muhammad's example of paedophilia should not be emulated in this day and age. Or is that something you cannot get the time to do?

[abdullahnoor]

[doubtless]

Mr. Abdullahnoor, I have read your posts here and at the other site. You have evaded the issue. You tell me that Sharia can be reinterpreted. The issue is not "In essence, which laws are for eternity and which can be changed?" as you put it. The issue is what was the reason to justify the brutalisation, why has it been kept in place for 1400 years?
Mr. Hamid Abbass answer in the other thread is that for the past 1400 years all the muslim scholars and all the Sharia courts and all the muslim nations got the law wrong. But he is right because he knows Islam more than all those other muslims. And the right answer is that it should not be acceptable to marry children, and Mohammad's marriage to a child should have been treated as an exception but it was not. So his Islam is a sect of one, Mr. Hamid Abbas. I consider it to be a good start: some actions of Mohammad were exceptions and Muslims are not supposed to emulate them! Marrying children is at least one of them according to atleast one muslim.

Are you also a sect of one? So if you can simply tell us in simple language what was the reason that the Sharia of all Madhabs has accepted the marriage of old men to children for the last 1400 years and still accepts it today. Why is it still considered acceptable for old muslim men to marry children ( 9 years or first menstrual cycle) under Islamic law? Old muslim men are still marrying children "Today" and brutalising them. Why have the muslims accepted that as lawful for all these centuries?

[Egyptian Kafir]

Muhammad prevented Adoption in sharia Just To annihilate any thing that may prevent him from marrying Zeinab after He saw her lightly dressed in her house at that night and liked her and went home saying "Praised be God who changes men's hearts!" ,Made a special Quran verse for this case( 33-37) and convinced Zaid To divorce her so he can marry her (ITS AN ALLAH'S ORDER!!) , and ofcourse poor Zaid cound Not Say no to Something Apostle of Allah and his step father craves, and yet mister Abdulla want to convince us that it was not lust ..
_________________
“The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.” ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

[abdullahnoor]

Doubtless, as I said, if you want to pose questions, then post it in the referred site. I am not going to be bogged down by your detours and irrelevant posts. Below is one example of that detour you craftily put up.

[Egyptian Kafir]

[abdullahnoor]

Egyptian Kafir, below were YOUR WORDS….

[doubtless]

Abdullahnoor, I have stopped going to Islamic sites after one of them tried to trace my IP number. So no thank you. People can read your post at that site you have referenced to and can see that you have totally evaded the entire issue.
You have been evading the issue all along. What would you call the damage caused to young physically immature children by old Muslim men, if not brutalisation of children? I stand by my words. Please tell us why Muslims have been permitting this atrocity to continue for the last 1400 years if not in an attempt to emulate the actions and behavior of "Mercy to Mankind"? Simple enough question, Abdullahnoor.

You have avoided my posts all along giving one lame excuse after another. First you were going to think, and then after thinking you post irrelevant stuff at another site, and now you will only discuss there and like a cheap braggadacio throw meaningless challanges. Simple do you have an answer or not? I assume you do not, and I would like all the readers of the site to see that in the clearest and starkest manner possible. You do not know how to answer that simple question without tying yourself up like a pretzel or becoming a sect of one!

[Egyptian Kafir]

[abdullahnoor]

Doubtless

[Egyptian Kafir]

[Egyptian Kafir]

Here is the translation From Tafseer Al Tabri explaining this matter, Hence the Bald parts :

Remember, Muhammad, when you said to Zaid, "Hold on to your wife, and heed God in regard to her, and do not divorce her owing to necessity or offering her haughtiness as excuse." In fact Zainab Bint Jahsh appealed to the Messenger of God when he saw her, as is told, when she was under the bond of his next of kin, so God placed in his heart aversion toward her when he knew that the heart of his Prophet was so stricken by her. So Zaid wanted to leave her and he told the Messenger of God. The Messenger of God said to him, "Hold on to your wife" even though he desired him to be finally divorced from her so that he could marry her, "and heed God" namely fear Him in the duty you owe Him for your wife. A tradition by Wahb: "Ibn Zaid said, 'The Prophet had married Zaid Ibn Haritha to Zainab Bint Jahsh, his cousin, and the Messenger of God went out one day seeking him. On Zaid's door was a curtain which the wind moved to show her unveiled in her chamber. The heart of the Prophet was filled with admiration for her. When this happened, she became undesirable to the other [namely to Zaid], who came [to the Messenger of God] and said, "O Messenger of God, I want to leave my wife." He replied, "Did she do anything to arouse your suspicion?" He said, "No! She did nothing to arouse my suspicion at all, O Messenger of God, and all I have seen from her was good." Then the Messenger of God said to him, "Hold on to your wife, and heed God." This is why God said, "Thus you told someone whom God had favoured and whom you yourself have favoured: 'Hold on to your wife, and heed God,' while you kept to yourself what God has disclosed." [This means that] you hid in yourself that you would marry her if he leaves her.' " (al-Tabari, vol. 22, pp. 12-13)


Enjoy !
_________________
“The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.” ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

[abdullahnoor]

IMPORTANT CORRECTION

Earlier I wrote

[Egyptian Kafir]

[abdullahnoor]

I think being you are seriously misrepresenting here.

It is not uncommon for Muslims to praise Allah for anything. I am sure you know that. Muhammad (p) praising Allah upon seeing Zaynab is not something that would raise eyebrows.

I am not going to take your word. Your “Arabic characters” is not working on my screen.

Please zoom into the specific Arabic word “unveiled”. Which link is it? Which page is it? Which paragraph is it? Which sentence?

Zoom in onto the sentence to that the word “unveiled” in Arabic which, would give the meaning “physical declothing of Zaynab to the point it evokes male interest”, and not perhaps “unveiling her beauty in her character for someone to see” or something like that.

I also want to know if the Arabic word “unveiled” can mean something other than “declothing” of a woman, like “disclosing her character” or “displaying her inner beauty” or any other meaning. Because if it has other meaning, then “unveiled” is not really a good piece of evidence to say that Muhammad (p) lusted for Zaynab.

After you have done that, hopefully a Muslim Arab can clarify. Otherwise, I will seek my own resources.

I have to be specific here. I know Arabic is a very complex language. English translations have always never been sufficient to describe the true and full meaning.

I noticed that you completely ignored my point that the early enemies of Muhammad (p) could have finished him, if it truly was a scandalous affair.

Want to tell us why?

[Egyptian Kafir]

[abdullahnoor]

Egyptian Kafir,

There really is no need to scream and tear your hair out if someone sees things differently from you. If you really are serious in a discussion, you would answer me plain and simple, right? Unless of course your intention is to slime but somehow it did not work out to be what you planned.

[Egyptian Kafir]

[Muneel]

Let me add here that there are so many weak hadiths. We need a real muslim scholar/cleric to discuss stuff based out of hadiths.

[Egyptian Kafir]

[abdullahnoor]

Egyptian Kafir