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Ali Sina
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 2174
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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 Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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To answer the question "Did Women's Status Improve With Islam?", we need authentic historical information about women during and before the days of Mohammad. We should also look in to the Gods/Godesses, Arts, temples of that time to gain some insight in to the staus of women in and around Arabian desert.
here is somthing to think about The Forbidden Dance
http://www.innerself.com/Magazine/Fitness/The_Forbidden_Dance.htm
- - - - -- - - -- - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Khansa / al-Khansa /Tumadir bint 'Amr (c.575-c.646)
| Quote: | | Tumadir bint 'Amr ("bint" means "daughter of") is usually called Khansa; the name means "gazelle" to some translators, "snub-nosed" to others. She was one of the major poets of pre-Islamic Arabia (in the period Islamic scholars call the "Jahiliyya"). Her diwan (poetry collection), like those of her contemporaries, was carefully preserved by Islamic scholars who needed to study seventh century Arabic in order to explicate the Qur'an. |
read it at http://www.al-funun.org/al-funun/images/al-khansa.html
| Quote: | some of the al-Khansa poems on web; A Woman's Lament for Her Brother From Al-Khansa. Early Arabic Poetry: Marathi and Su‘ luk Poems. trans. Alan Jones, ed. Alan Jones, vol. 1 (Exeter, U.K.: Ithaca Press Reading, 1992), 88-95.
http://womenshistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akron.infi.net%2F%7Eddisse%2Fkhansa.html
also read her poetry after the death of her sons to Mohammad's ISLAM, offcourse she herself embraced Islam
"My sons I bore you with pain
And brought you up with care;
You have fallen today for the cause of Islam,
Who says you are dead;
You are very much alive, and alive with honour.
When Khansa returned to Madina, Caliph Omar Bin Al Khattab went to her house to condole with her over the death of her sons. Khansa merely said:
"Congratulate me, Amirul Mominin,
For verily I am the mother of martyrs." |
with regards
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:35 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Laila Akhyaliyya /Layla al-Akhyaliyyah (died c.704)
| Quote: | | Laila Akhyaliyya, a member of a noble family of the 'Uqail (in modern Iraq) She lived in the later 600s, and knew two of the Umayyad caliphs, whose dynasty led the Islamic world from 661 to 750. She was married to a man named Sawwar, but many of her poems are laments for Tauba ibn Humayyar (d.674), a fellow poet and perhaps her lover, who apparently died an outlaw. Tradition describes her as often wittily holding her own in debate with Umayyad authorities who criticized her for her defense of Tauba |
A part of poem Laila Akhyaliyya on her male collegue Tauba ibn; translated Willis Barnstone.
| Quote: | O, bravo the man you were, Tauba,
when the high points met and the low one were raised.
Bravo the man you were, O Tauba..
Bravo the man, O Tauba, as neighbor and friend.
Bravo the man, O Tauba, as you excelled.
By my life, you are a man whose loss I weep
as ancestors, though gossips complain of him.
By my life, you are a man whose loss I mourn
increasing my waking for him no end.
By my life, you are a man whose loss I mourn
when great things multiply for the dying.
Had Allah not removed you, O Tauba,
yet you had met death's dart, and death is swift.
Had Allah not removed you, O Tauba,
yet on you would a dark morning cloud shower. |
with best regards
yeezevee |
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Gauge
Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 2347
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks yeez...please allow me to share what you have shared with me....
In a poem about her brother:
| Quote: | In the evening remembrance keeps me awake, and in the morning I am worn out by the overwhelming disaster [that has befallen us].
In the case of Sakhr, and what youth is there like Sakhr to deal with a day of warring and skillful spear-thrust?
And to deal with tenacious opponents when they transgress, so that he can assert the right of someone on whom oppression has fallen? |
| Quote: | I have not seen his like in the extent of [the] disaster [caused By] his death, either among djinn or among men.1
Truly strong against the vicissitudes of fortune and decisive in affairs, showing no confusion. |
| Quote: | Truly strong against the vicissitudes of fortune and decisive in affairs, showing no confusion
At times when people were suffering hardship most generous
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| Quote: | In his endeavours towards those who sought help or towards
Neighbours or to his wife.
Many was the guest who arrived by night or the man who was
Seeking protection, [people] whose hearts were alarmed at
Every sound.
He treated [such people] kindly and made them safe, so that
Their state was free from every pressing need.Ah, O Sakhr, I shall [never] forget you until I part from my
Soul and my grave is cut. |
| Quote: | The rising of the sun reminds of Sakhr, and I remember
Him every time the sun sets. |
Do you recognise LOVE when you see it...please tell me you do...
| Quote: | But for the multitude of people around me weeping for their
Kin I would have killed myself. |
| Quote: | All the time I see the woman grieving for her dead child
And the woman wailing over the death of her husband on a day
Of misfortune.
Both of them weep for their [lost ones] in the evening of the
Day disaster befell them or after that.
Yet they are not weeping for the like of my brother |
| Quote: | but I
Console myself with the example of those who bear grief
Patiently. |
| Quote: | On the day that I parted from Abu Hassan Sakhr I said
Farewell to my pleasures and my cheer.
Alas for my sorrow for him; alas for the sorrow of my mother!Does he [really] spend the morning in the grave and spend the
Evening in it? |
Feel...
Gauge |
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Gauge
Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 2347
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | What have we done to you death
that you treat us so, with always another catch
one day a warrior
the next a head of state
charmed by the loyal
you choose the best
iniquitous, unequalling death
I would not complain
if you were just
but you take the worthy leaving fools for us. |
| Quote: | No eyes followed her coffin
to the end of the road
Only a memory of a lifeless form
passing in some lane...
A moon mourned in silence. |
| Quote: | I am fit for high positions, by
God
And am going my way with pride
My loneliness
ages like wine
I arrest it
between parentheses
bridle it
together with the tumult
paste doubt to it |
| Quote: | Freedom
My freedom
I shall carve the words in the
earth
chisel their sounds
over every door in the Levant...
below the slope at every street
corner inside the prison
within the torture chamber. |
| Quote: | Tear it
This veil
Discard it
Tatter it
And Leave death parade
To join the wedding procession
and sing
Destroy
Destroy fears with violence... |
| Quote: | My dear sir
lfear lo say what I have to say
Ifear if I do
The skies will burn your East,
dear sir
Confiscates blue missives
Confiscates the dreams stored in
women safe... |
| Quote: | You want
You want like all women
Solomon's treasures
Like all women
Pools of perfumes
Combs of ivory
A horde of slaves...
Shahrazad
Like all women
You want me to give you the stars in the heavens... |
- Al Khansa |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Are Islam and Human Rights Compatible? Revisiting Muslim Women's Rights by Azzarina Basarudin
excerpts:
| Quote: |
The Status of Women in Pre-Islamic Arabia (Jahiliya)
In order to understand how and why Muslims claim that Islam has elevated that status of women, it is crucial to understand the social, cultural, political and economic condition of pre-Islamic Arabia. Pre-Islamic Arabia was also known as Jahiliya, where ignorance, lack of moral values, licentiousness and corruption prevailed in society. More often than not, the discussion of women's status in pre-Islamic Arabia turns focuses on various simplistic forms of female oppression. Islamic theologians claim that women enjoyed no rights whatsoever and were treated no better than a commodity for not only were they enslaved, but they could also be inherited as a possession (Engineer 1992: 20). By discussing female infanticide, lack of inheritance rights and choices in marriage, El-Bahnassawi (1985) insisted that a woman was nothing better than a possession, first of the males in her family (and tribe) and later of her husband, his family and tribe. In addition, she could also be sold and/or exchanged if it benefited her family or tribe. These generalizations ignore the fact that pre-Islamic Arabian communities were overwhelmingly diverse, thus, their treatment of women may have varied according to tribes, customs and lifestyles. Therefore, I suggest that the status of women before Islam must be understood within that diverse context. Although scholars (e.g., Abd al Ati 1977; Ahmed 1992; Hitti 1956; Smith 1963) have disagreed on the characteristics and practices of Jahiliyan society, almost all agree that pre-Islamic Arabian societies were undeniably diverse in terms of cultures, religions, customs and traditions. |
read it all at
http://www.iifhr.com/Azza's%20Fellow%20Paper.htm
with best regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Women in Ancient Yemen by David A. Warburton
excerpts from http://www.aiys.org/webdate/warwo.html
| Quote: | According to the Bible (1 Kings 10; 2 Chronicles 9), the Queen of Sheba herself came to Solomon to press him with questions, and found him to be a wise and wealthy king. The Quran (Sura 27) and the Ethiopian legends add more spice to the story, but it still remains the story of Bilqis or of Makeda, against a background of masculine powers.
Legends of Arabian queens are not however restricted to Yemen and hazy days of glory on the edge of history, as the real live Arab Queen Zenobia of Palmyra came quite close to wresting Egypt from Rome, and thus almost became the most powerful ruler on the Eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea and a serious menace to Rome during the third century C.E. Long before her, during the eighth century B.C.E., the Assyrian kings Tiglath-Pileser and Sargon II encountered quite a number of bloodthirsty women cavalry leaders.
They mentioned these queens because they defeated them, but as Sargon's body was ultimately destined to be left lying on a foreign battlefield, we may assume that other Assyrian kings fought undecided or unsuccessful actions against Arabian cavalry, which they chose to forget. At the time, the Arab cavalry was riding horses and camels and shooting arrows at the poor Assyrian infantry, accompanied by some charioteers, who rarely dared to loosen the reins to take the time to shoot, and it would not be surprising if the Arabian cavalry were not a bit much for the conservative Assyrians.
That women appear as legendary rulers is perhaps not surprising, but their failure to appear on the coins suggests that they did not in fact actually rule, as the coins quickly changed from depicting the Athenian goddess Athena to depicting male rulers and male gods. Viewed from the coins alone, one would rapidly draw the conclusion that women's roles in public life were purely legendary and that their participation was limited to the conventional assumptions.
The same conclusion could be drawn from the Assyrian texts a decade or two later, as by the end of the eighth century B.C.E, Assyrian sources mention kings and not queens in association with Saba. The first coins date to a period many centuries later than this. Should we then draw the conclusion that early Yemeni society was ruled by women, and that it was then transformed into a masculine society? Or should we simply assume that the legendary women were part of the exotic tales of far-off Yemen?
The answer may be that seeking real ancient Yemeni heroines one should include others aside from the queens. It is one thing to have the Queen of Sheba hovering on the historical horizon, but it is quite another to debate whether the female figures depicted on stelae from Qataban are priestesses or goddesses; this is in fact an on-going debate.
.....In 1950, the American excavations at Timna (the capital of Qataban) brought to light an inscribed block of stone, relating that a certain living woman named Barat spent her own private funds to consecrate a golden statue to the god Ashtar, charging the god to protect her and hers. She was apparently obliged to provide for a rain sacrifice by the king, and this statue was part of her duty. The golden statue is -- of course -- long gone, but a number of other preserved alabaster statues depict women, accompanied by one line inscriptions naming women.
......All of this would suggest that ancient Yemeni women functioned as important officials, as priestesses, and as commercially active members of society, even as professional women with traveling husbands.....
.......... as compared to the contemporary mode among Arab women in Palmyra for example - shows that they bore their responsibilities with grace, dignity and pleasure. The fabled wealth of ancient Yemen suggests that society benefitted from their participation. |
with regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Women as Warriors in Prehistory, the Ancient World and up to the 7th Century outside Europe
http://www.lothene.demon.co.uk/others/womenprehist.html
| Quote: | .....Zabibi and her successor Samsi reigned as Arabian warrior queens from approximately 740 to 720 BC. Both commanded armies containing large numbers of women.....
........Dihya al-Kahina (or Dahia, Damia, Diah, Kahena, Cahena, A-Cahina, Cohen, Cohena) was a warrior queen who led Berber troops against invading Arabs around 694AD...... |
Interesting information about woman warriors, though one can find ancient Arabia and around Arabia women warriors and queens before Islam, But After Islam everything changed, not a trace of women in power from those lands..
regards
yeezevee |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1442
Location: usa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Arabs would tell you that womans rights came through Islam but their own history books give lie to that.
Mohammed's (JK&CM) first wife Khaja was a wealthy widow and he went to work for her.
That suggests that women held quite a bit of power in Mecca and Medina before Islam.
_________________
to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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