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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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 Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:55 pm Post subject: FYI:Qur’an-What it means |
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Qur’an-What it means.
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By Qur’an we mean the verses, phrases, sentences and the chapters uttered by the Holy Prophet of Islam, not as his own wording, but as the Word and the Book of God, revealed to him and which he proclaimed as his Everlasting Miracle which bears the testimony of his Prophethood and with which he challenged not only those who doubted its origin and not only mankind alone but even the Jinns saying that even if the Jinns and men join hands with each other to produce the like of it, they will never be able to do it even in a part of it. This challenge he threw not to any particular age but for all times.
By this definition we exclude all the utterances of the Holy Prophet, which he did not claim that the wording is of God (Though the idea or the subject-matter was nothing but a revelation from God). The definition also excludes the utterances of the Holy Prophet which he presented to the people as the Word of God but not as a miracle or a part of it with which he challenged the World (viz. the various Ahadees-e-Qudsi). These Ahadees-e-Qudsi are so numerous and abundant that if they are collected together they will not be less than the size of the Holy Qur’an if not more, but their value in no respect or aspect, is more than the other genuine traditions of the Holy Prophet.
This definition needs to be kept in view throughout the discussion about the Holy Qur’an.
1) Of the religious records of historical value, pre-Islamic or post-Islamic, in our hands, No Document can ever compete with the Holy Qur’an in Authenticity and Genuineness. The historical records which the Muslims claim to be most authentic and genuine of the Sunni school viz., the ‘Sehha-e-Sitta’ and of the Shia school viz., the Kotobe Arba’a, none can claim of having the popularity and of being within the reach of every Muslim from his earlist age to his death in any degree as was the Holy Qur’an and no tradition was considered so important as to make every Muslim child learn, recite and memorize it, word by word with utmost grammatical correctness and phonetic perfection, as the Holy Qur;an
……
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Introduction
Holy Qur’an
By: S.V.Mir Ahmed Ali/Ayatullah Pooya
_________________
"They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths,
but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected,
even though the Unbelievers may detest." [Quran 9:32] |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SMHA wrote: | | with which he challenged not only those who doubted its origin and not only mankind alone but even the Jinns saying that even if the Jinns and men join hands with each other to produce the like of it, they will never be able to do it even in a part of it. This challenge he threw not to any particular age but for all times. |
Are you saying that if someone could have written a surah like the ones in the quran, it will prove that Muhammed is a false prophet?
You are! Which means you have to admit that Muhammed is a false prophet because we wrote a surah like it!
Go to: The Hypocrisy of the “produce a surah like it” challenge
See You There!
Arab Christian |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| arabchristian wrote: | | SMHA wrote: | | with which he challenged not only those who doubted its origin and not only mankind alone but even the Jinns saying that even if the Jinns and men join hands with each other to produce the like of it, they will never be able to do it even in a part of it. This challenge he threw not to any particular age but for all times. |
Are you saying that if someone could have written a surah like the ones in the quran, it will prove that Muhammed is a false prophet?
You are! Which means you have to admit that Muhammed is a false prophet because we wrote a surah like it!
Go to: The Hypocrisy of the “produce a surah like it” challenge
See You There!
Arab Christian |
Listen, there is a time and place for everything, i can come to your section and say hello to you guys. But maybe you need to understnad that we are dealing with Ahtiests, angostics and otherstics.....You want to discuss Christanity go to Islamicity.com or Shiachat.com etc make your mark there
Monothesitic religions. As for i am concerned on this site Jews, Christian and Muslim are not Athiests or Agnostics.
If you are smart you will understand. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Listen, there is a time and place for everything, i can come to your section and say hello to you guys. But maybe you need to understnad that we are dealing with Ahtiests, angostics and otherstics.....You want to discuss Christanity go to Islamicity.com or Shiachat.com etc make your mark there |
SMHA runs away from debate for yet another time .. on a thread he started HIMSELF.
SMHA:
The issue is about Islam. It doesnt matter who is debating, non-Muslim or Christian. Even if a parrot came here and started saying that Islam is false, you have to reply to him.
Everyone can participate in any section.
ALSO, you have lied by saying "your section". There is no such thing as "your section".
1) Sections on FFI care about which area the topic is from, not from which group the debater belongs to.
As you said, "If you were smart, you would understand this."
| Quote: | | You want to discuss Christanity go to Islamicity.com or Shiachat.com etc make your mark there |
2) Arabchristian did not discuss Christianity in his post. Your above quote reflects your desire to turn ArabChristian's attention away from Islam so you can face lesser questions.
The reality is this SMHA: you dont have an answer to ArabChristian's refutation of the Surah-like-it challenge. If you had, you would have replied as you have replied in other posts.
All of what I said is pretty obvious to the reader. They can see who is avoiding to answer questions.
Adnan |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SMHA wrote: | | arabchristian wrote: | | SMHA wrote: | | with which he challenged not only those who doubted its origin and not only mankind alone but even the Jinns saying that even if the Jinns and men join hands with each other to produce the like of it, they will never be able to do it even in a part of it. This challenge he threw not to any particular age but for all times. |
Are you saying that if someone could have written a surah like the ones in the quran, it will prove that Muhammed is a false prophet?
You are! Which means you have to admit that Muhammed is a false prophet because we wrote a surah like it!
Go to: The Hypocrisy of the “produce a surah like it” challenge
See You There!
Arab Christian |
Listen, there is a time and place for everything, i can come to your section and say hello to you guys. But maybe you need to understnad that we are dealing with Ahtiests, angostics and otherstics.....You want to discuss Christanity go to Islamicity.com or Shiachat.com etc make your mark there
Monothesitic religions. As for i am concerned on this site Jews, Christian and Muslim are not Athiests or Agnostics.
If you are smart you will understand. |
First:
Who told you that am discussing Christianity?
Did I ever mentioned anything relevant to my faith?
Second:
Who told you that you are dealing with Atheists and Agnostics only?
This site is made for refuting Muslims claims, by anyone who can.
Most of the members here are Agnostics or Atheists because simply they are ex-Muslims, and not becuase it is a "prerequisite."
Also, at the Mission Statment of this forum you'll see Dr.Ali Sina, the founder, says:
| Ali Sina wrote: | | Faith Freedom International is a movement of mostly ex-Muslims who know too well that Islam is a serious problem for humanity |
I know too well about Islam, and I am not an Atheist or Agnostic.
Am I Disqualified?
Please answer the questions instead of goofing around.
Regards,
AC
Last edited by Unknown 8 on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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You are not discussing it, but using the opportunity to further your cause.
If the concept is alien to you, Have it your way. |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The reality is this SMHA: you dont have an answer to ArabChristian's refutation of the Surah-like-it challenge. If you had, you would have replied as you have replied in other posts. |
In the thread you are referring to His logical question have been answered to or he was referred to do some further reading. |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SMHA wrote: | You are not discussing it, but using the opportunity to further your cause.
If the concept is alien to you, Have it your way. |
First:
Can you please define "my cause" that I am trying to keep further?
Second:
Locate where I used the opporutnity to "further my cause," using qoutations from ANY-WHERE and ANY-THREAD in this site!!
Third:
I am here in this thread because you are again saying that no body can imitate the Quran, while we succeeded, and you can't refute this success.
If you can, then go to my thread and do that!
Last edited by Unknown 8 on Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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You must be referring to
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5516
if you don't know who to read the english alphabet, and start to make words , you will fall on your face. So i suggested some reading to you. Now spend soem time in study, instead of looking for a medal for your childish endouvers. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
The act of your ignoring my posts is harming the cuase of Islam because readers can see who is avoiding questions and who is not.
| Quote: | | You are not discussing it, but using the opportunity to further your cause. |
ArabChristian refuted your article and you have to answer his refutation.
This is a trap you set for yourself, SMHA. Lets see how you get out of this one 
Adnan |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Do something constructive, instead to been a broker.
Last edited by SMHA on Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
Please answer ArabChristian's refutation of your article.
Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'." |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SMHA wrote: | You must be referring to
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5516
if you don't know who to read the english alphabet, and start to make words , you will fall on your face. So i suggested some reading to you. Now spend soem time in study, instead of looking for a medal for your childish endouvers. |
I will repeat the questions I asked you before, because it seems you forgot to answer them 
First:
Can you please define "my cause" that I am trying to keep further?
Second:
Locate where I used the opporutnity to "further my cause," using qoutations from ANY-WHERE and ANY-THREAD in this site!!
And Here are my new questions:
 Third:
Why am I "assigned" to do "some readings" 
YOU are the one who failed to refute my conclusion, so YOU are the one who should read and NOT me!!!
Forth:
This site is about debating and refuting opinions.
Is correcting your mistake that the Quran "cannot" be imitated means I'm looking for a "medal"?
Don't Be A Quitter, and Answer My Questions As I Answer Yours! |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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SHMA,
You failed to refute my article completely, and I even asked you some other questions there from a while, and you didn't answer them!
I and Adnan told you a zillion times to respond, but you don't show up...
Are you backing off? |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| arabchristian wrote: | SHMA,
You failed to refute my article completely, and I even asked you some questions there from a while, and you didn't answer them!
Are you backing off? |
Yes i backed off there, because if you keep on going with your stuff and do not try to understand my point. I will back off, do you think i have time to waste in just foolishly arguing on something so one of us can have a last post meaning the other lost, (isn't this how it works ). Read the material provided to understand the meaning of the miricale according to Qur'an, what is the actual challange. you want be to play stupid with you while you ignore that the challange is all about.
Look, all i have to say has been said in that thread. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA
| Quote: | | Look, all i have to say has been said in that thread. |
Good, then dont reply more to this thread, or I'll be using that quote of yours above and you'll be shooting yourself in the foot.
| Quote: | | Read the material provided to understand the meaning of the miricale according to Qur'an, what is the actual challange, by writing some words in Arabic we created a verse. |
Your article has been refuted and a response is awaited from Muslims.
SMHA, i'll give you sincere advice: you are not learned enough to be on this forum. Please exit decently and bring a more learned scholar. You have declared yourself that you are learning the basics.
Be honest to yourself.
Adnan |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| SMHA wrote: | | arabchristian wrote: | SHMA,
You failed to refute my article completely, and I even asked you some questions there from a while, and you didn't answer them!
Are you backing off? |
Yes i backed off there, because if you keep on going with your stuff and do not try to understand my point. I will back off, do you think i have time to waste in just foolishly arguing on something so one of us can have a last post meaning the other lost, (isn't this how it works ). Read the material provided to understand the meaning of the miricale according to Qur'an, what is the actual challange. you want be to play stupid with you while you ignore that the challange is all about.
Look, all i have to say has been said in that thread. |
I will repeat the questions I asked you before, because it seems you forgot to answer them
First:
Can you please define "my cause" that I am trying to keep further?
Second:
Locate where I used the opporutnity to "further my cause," using qoutations from ANY-WHERE and ANY-THREAD in this site!!
Third:
Why am I "assigned" to do "some readings"???
YOU are the one who failed to refute my conclusion, so YOU are the one who should read and NOT me!!!
Forth:
This site is about debating and refutations.
Is correcting your mistake that the Quran "cannot" be imitated means I'm looking for a "medal"?
-----
SHMA, You either:
Bring logical refutation to my article and logical answers to my questions
OR
Admit your failure
OR
As Adnan said, exit decently and bring a more learned scholar! |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Get some sleap, and when you wake up reread the post. |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SMHA wrote: | | Get some sleap, and when you wake up reread the post. |
Can I ask you a question?
HOW OLD ARE YOU? |
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Unknown 8
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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SHMA,
You can't find any logical answers and you can't disprove my assertion that Islam is a false religion.
Islam claims to be created by God:
How can you believe in a religion, created by the creater of the World, that didn't do any seen miracles?
How can you believe in a religion, created by the creater of Logic, that is not logical?
Logical, and correct answer: It is NOT created by God. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:52 am Post subject: |
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SMHA,
You are harming Islam and the reputation of Muslims by writing posts like below:
| Quote: | | Get some sleap, and when you wake up reread the post. |
You have still not answered ArabChristian's response to your article.
Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'." |
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