Faith Freedom International

[Hale]

I was previously main founder of "Islam Open Forum" - the largest Yahoo club under "Islam". We had as many almost
3900 members a week ago.

But for years I had nagging doubts . . . Could I really keep denying REALITY . . . The REALITY that the problem with Islam is NOT just the hadith collections or a few nutty scholars
but includes the QURAN itself!

I can up with apology after apology and reinterpretation after
reinterpretation to TRY to deny that THE QURAN DOESN'T say:

1. Wife Beating is OK
2. Oppressing non Muslims til the convert or pay Jiyzah is OK
3. Cutting off people's hands as a criminal punishment is
commanded
4. Women are to inherit half of what men do
5. A woman's testimony is worth 1/2 a man's

I finally decided that it was like going to court and defending
a client who is guilty and a liar. You can apologize for the
client - maybe even con the judge and jury BUT YOU ARE STILL LYING!

I am tired of lying SO I QUIT!

I AM HOW A HINDU!

I have founded a new Yahoo Group

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HinduOpenForum

I invite EVERYONE HERE to join me!

Thanks, Hale

[raushanf]

Its good that you finally realised and acknowledged that all you have been told about Islam since you're a child by your peers are false. But please understand, jumping from one religion to another isn't the real need of the time. Kindly instead please put more effort to share your enlightenment and awaken other born muslims who still think all those sweet lies are true.By doing so,we can save more lives which are daily destroyed in the name of god and religion.

Only ex-muslims can really make a change for good in the societies they were born to.

[Ali Sina]

Dear Hale


Although religion is a personal choice but since you were kind enough to share your beliefs with us could you please tell us why Hinduism and not Humanism?

I understand the Hinduism is much changed and it is not the same barbaric religion that burned the widows and divided the people in casts.

My question is why one needs a religion anyway?

I have written two articles on this issue. They are not about Hinduism but the questions are the same. I would be grateful if you read them and comment on them.

http://faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/which_religion.htm

http://faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/bahai.htm

Also I would like to publish your testimonial in the Testimonial page of faithfreedom.org do I have your permission and can you elaborate more on your story. Tell us more about your background, were you a borm Muslim or a revert and what was your expectations and experience with Islam. What you found in Hinduims that you did not see in Islam, etc.

Regards,

Ali Sina


p.s. We may have talked together before because I used to write in Society for Islamic Humanists under the screen name afreethinker. Did you ever visit our yahoo club?

[roshan]

hinduism has NEVER been a barbariac religion.

the caste divisions ARE AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF HINDUISM. there were castes in very country - whether england, china or japan. it is a part of medieval feudal system. but later on, these countries got rid of the castes. however, india was ruled by muslims during its medieval ages, and muslim rulers executed all scientists, and destroyed all the universities. also, the nation was plunged into constant warfare. so, due to these muslim rulers, all learning and progress in the country was stopped. as a result, while the westers nations abolished the caste system, it continued in india.

another thing is that many people think that the priests of hinduism were very rich, and were for the caste system. this is just a myth. in many parts of india, the brahmins are as poor as the untouchables themselves. in hindu texts, like ramayana and mahabharata, the brahmins were so poor, that they went around begging for food. the brahmins of india only became richer during british times, because they were well educated scholars, so the british hired them for all the jobs. still, more brahmins died fighting for indias independence than members of any other caste.

another problem is that many people do not understand the hindu caste system and the indian caste system. hindus are divided in 4 groups based on occupation, NOT BY BIRTH. and these 4 groups have diff duties to society. however, in the indian caste system, there are millions of groups. some of these groups are considered as higher castes, some as low caste peoples, and some as untouchables. what the social status of the people are is heavily subjective. anyways, the indian caste system has been pretty much abolished already.

as for sati: SATI IS CONDEMNED in hindu texts. the arthashastra, one of the books on how hidus are supposed to behave, is heavily against sati. another book on how hindus should behave, the manu samhita, also heavily condemned sati. even during indias medieval times, there have been many recorded instances of hindu priests convincing women to NOT commit sati, as it was against dharma.

sati only happened rarely(and when it happened, it was considered as a very shoicking incident by the hindus). however, propagandists have greatly exaggerated its frequency. although there were a few forced incidents, pretty mucha ll the time, women went out of free will, because they didnt have any money at all, and thus could not live without their husband. sometimes it was an act of sorrow or grief. also, sometimes, women did it just for the fame, because women who commited sati are worshipped as goddesses in rural areas.

the only time in hindu history when sati was prevalent was during islamic times. during muslim times, when a city fell, the women would be raped by the muslims, killed, enslaved, forced to become prostitutes, forced to become muslims etc. so, in order to aviod such a fate, all the men would arm themselves, and launch a suicide attack on the muslims, while all old people, women and children in the entire city would drink poison and then jump into a huge fire.

[perfanalyst]

[cyd602]

I was co-founder in Islam Open Forum and he did announce that he has left Islam, as did I. We now have a new group of the same name. However, a group called CMSR (Clubs Muslims Should Reject) vehemently chases Muslims out of the group by calling them Kafir for associating with us. If it weren't so sad, it'd be comical.
_________________
"Faith makes all things possible, Love makes it easy."

[hinduwoman]

Roshan,
The caste divisions are not against the teachings of hinduism. Sure, they are not the essence of Hinduism, as acceptance of christ is essence of Christianity. So you can ignore the system. Similarly Vedic literature does not tell us to discriminate against people on basis of caste or limit people to the caste they are born to. But we must remember that it grew out of functional divisions of society. Vedic literature does mention them --- you can interpret them in any way you please, which is what happened when it became stratified. I agree though it was not the immobile oppressive system the Westerners had painted it to be. It became most rigid where it came into contact with Islamic rule as a way of preserving its culture. Similarly, the Brahmins were not like Christian clergy --- while their ritual status was of the highest, real power lay with the landowners and traders; Brahmins had always been very poor in most parts of India.


Nitpicking regarding Sati:

The Arthashastra is not one of the books on how hindus should behave; it is a political text and an administrative manual by Kautilya, the minister of emperor Chandragupta Maurya. But it does show that women did not committ sati because widows were allowed to remarry.
Manusamhita cannot condemn sati, simply because when it was edited for the last time sati had not become a custom.
Many hindus did think sati was equivalent to suicide and stopped them, but for the majority it was not so shocking: they glamourised the woman for her valour. The earlier texts do not mention it because it did not happen. But the later Parasharsmriti do extoll it.
_________________
May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor.

[Youcantchangeme]

Awwwwww ..... too bad ... i feel sorry for you for converting to the stupid hinduism ........ so how does the cows piss taste like???

[roshan]

[Salina]

I'm Hindu by birth ie. a cultural Hindu, but I sincerely cannot understand converting to the religion. But then, I see no harm in it either; I would (and do) personally recommend Buddhism, or some neo-Pagan religion such as Wicca that are more open to Western culture.

[roshan]

maybe if you knew more about it, then you would understand.

[hinduwoman]

Salina, Wicca is not more open to western influence. Basically they believe in mother-goddess and magic and moon none of which exactly helps in creating a better society. It is simply another variant of the new-age cults.
_________________
May facts and logic always win over 'feel-good' factor.

[muslimthug]

[Armin]

[The Divine Prophet]

You are apperantly in doubts about the real humanity of the Quran mostly corrupted by manipulations and perversions decades after the holy prophet died.

Islam needs to be cleansed of the heresies and slanders done in the name of upholding certain political motives.

But just because your intelligence did not suffice for you to reason with the humanism of real Islam, Islam itself is not responsbile for it.

it's your weakness, not the weakness of Allah!
_________________
But who shalt be the one to convey thy divine message o holy lord!

[Cleopatra]

[SkewitontheBarbie]

[roshan]

[Susan]

Testimony from SecularIslam:

Date:
26 Jun 2002
Time:
21:19:30
Comments

Dear ISIS,

I was born into a very staunch Muslim family in the US. Learning to read the Quran the moment I could read. I was under the misconception that if I did not do as Allah told me to do, I would be punished severely. I was also told that if I didn't wear modest clothes I was being immoral. Right from a little girl I wore the head scarf. My friends would ask me why, and I would tell them "because God said so'.

Around the age of 14, I realized how much of life I was missing out on. How my father commanded that I do my prayers 5 times a day and never play any sports because they would only lead me to the devil. One night I was talking to my parents about college and my father said that I would never go to college because he had chosen a boy for me and I was about to get married to him as soon as I turned 18. I was shocked....my mother ran out of the room crying. I began to plead with my father to let me go to college. But he said no. When I asked him why, he told me that Muslim women are not supposed to be educated or go to work. They are supposed to be good wives, who never disagree with their husbands and be good honorable women. I couldn't belive my ears. This man was still living in the dark-ages.

The next day after school I went to the mosque to talk with our Maulvi Sahab. When I told him about my father's irrational behavior---he agreed with him. He told me that if all the Muslim men in our community thought like your father, we would be in a really good place right now.

I was stuck and didn't know what to do. I kept thinking about it till late that night. At around 2am my mom came to check up on me and found me crying. That night I came to know what a sick religion Islam was. She told me that she had been a well educated (Doctor) Hindu woman who had fallen in love with my father in India. During their courtship my father had told her that he was very broad-minded and did not want her to convert when they got married. Against my grand-parent's wishes she married him and did the Nikaah just so her mother-in-law would like her. Thats where her nightmare began. Her In-laws would not let her go out of the house. No one could come and visit her. She was confined in a home where everyone would spit on her for being a 'Kafir'. They made her read the Quran and do Namaz. If she didn't they would beat her. My father would come home and force himself on her. When she would ask him not to, he would tell her that it was written in the Quran, and she was nothing more than a slave to him. After about a year of their marriage, they left for the US. My mom was already pregnant with me.

When I was born he was not too happy with my Mom. He said that if he had married someone of his own faith he would have had a boy for sure. Giving him a girl was the way Allah was punishing him for marrying a Hindu.

When I heard all this I began to hate my father and Islam. I promised to get my mom out of this situation and also never ever end up like her. When I turned 18, along with the help of a lawyer, I managed to get my mom and dad divorced. My mom actually went back to school and has a flourishing practice now.

As for me, you might say that I reverted. I am a practising and loving Hindu now. I have changed my name. I live a life full of love and adoration for a God who does not preach hate, who encourages me to think and gain knowledge, who shows me the way without fear and who loves everyone no matter who they are.

Thank You ISIS for letting me tell my story

[baks]

Thuglife have you been listening to too much Tupac and also are you from UK ?

[muslimthug]

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

May The Force Be With You Youcantchangeme!