Faith Freedom International

[Gauge]

Hi Guys,
Thought these would be of interest. I wonder if this is a more common phenomenon. Can anybody comment?

http://www.khyber.demon.co.uk/history/pakistan/murder.htm

http://www.khyber.demon.co.uk/history/pakistan/paknat.htm

http://www.khyber.demon.co.uk/history/pakistan/

Gauge

[SkewitontheBarbie]

Yes Gauge great site.

This is what some Indians have known for a bit.

Pakistan believes that they are the Heirs to the Mughal empire, the heirs to Taimurlanes empire, the Heirs to Gaznavis empire.

They wont stop at Kashmir, they want Delhi. Shit, they want Iran too by the look of those maps.

http://www.khyber.demon.co.uk/history/pakistan/images/

Its absolutely sad. Pakistanis revere the same men who raped their ancestors, the same men who slaughtered their ancestors, the same men who looted their ancestors.

Indians will not trust Musharraf, and rightfully so. He has been indoctrinated with this history.

[Cleopatra]

Actually...Musharaff grew up and was for a good part of his life educated in Turkey.

[sharmini]

[Sam]

Uhhh... No he didn't. He grew up in Delhi.


But even that didn't stop him from continuing in his cult.

By the way - a really funny side note on "Mush" - He LOVES dogs. But the problem is that his cult tells him that dogs are filth (I think Mohammed was a cat person). Time Magazine was doing an article about him, and took a picture of him with his dog. The Mullahs back home in Pakistan were MAD AS HELL! Having a pet dog actually caused this guy a major political problem!

Imagine if this madness is allowed to spread to the rest of the world!

and check this out - read it to the end: http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/53763.htm

[roshan]

lol, i heard that musharaff committed a huge faux pas when he brought his dog with him to saudi arabia!

[sharmini]

[SkewitontheBarbie]

[SkewitontheBarbie]

This site that Gauge has found is fantastic. It is one of the key pieces to the puzzle to explain pakistani behaviour. Check the following.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/13gp.htm

Just a few days before he died in a mysterious air crash General Zia-ul Haq gave his last interview to a European journalist. The general looked relaxed and pleased with himself and spoke triumphantly about how the jihad he had supported and sustained in Afghanistan against Soviet forces was on the verge of succeeding. The inquisitive journalist asked him how Pakistan hoped to benefit from the impending Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. Drawing her attention to a map of Pakistan's neighbourhood General Zia placed the palm of his hand over the territories of Afghanistan and its Central Asian neighbors and proudly proclaimed: "Soon all these (territories) will be ours."

Now the author, and many others, say that the reason Pakistan was doing this was because they wanted "strategic depth" in case of a war with India.

I give another reason, basing it on Gauges site (And it makes the most sense)

http://www.khyber.demon.co.uk/history/pakistan/paknat.htm

WHat did Pakistan really stand for?

P - Punjab (ALL of it)

A - Afghania (North West Frontier)

K - Kashmir (ALL of it including Jammun and Kashmir)
I - Iran

S - Sindh

T - Tukharistan (Central Asia)

A - Afghanistan

N - BalochistaN

The reason they wanted these territiories is because Pakistanis believe that they are the descendants to the throne of central asians Mahmud Gaznavi and Temur and Ahmed Shah Abdali, etc, etc

Look at these maps glorifying the same men who raped and killed and enslaved the ancestors of the Pakistanis

http://www.khyber.demon.co.uk/history/pakistan/images.htm

[Pagan Prophet]

I have met a lot of Pakistanis. They like to refer to 'Indian Ocean' as 'Musilm Ocean'...I laugh at their desperation for recognition , instead of getting angry....

[Gauge]

Found these interesting reads:


http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terror_as_a_Policy_Tool.htm

http://terror-threats.netfirms.com/article5.htm

Can anybody comment on the accuracy of the above views?

Gauge

[Reza Humanist]

Although General Musharraf has in the past praised Kemal Ataturk, he says that he does not want Pakistan to follow Turkey's secular path.

http://www.mideastinsight.org/03_02/musharraf2.html

"Middle East Insight: Some have noted your respect for Turkish leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk when you were a young boy growing up in Turkey. Are you interested in seeing Pakistan in the model of a secular Islamic state along the lines of Turkey?
"MUSHARRAF: No, not at all. This is not a secular state. As I said, our forefathers, the founders of Pakistan, created Pakistan as an Islamic republic. So this is not a secular state, as opposed to Turkey. Certainly not. And I am not going to change that at all. When I praised Ataturk, it was for what he did for Turkey - he converted the "Sick Man of Europe" into modern Turkey. We cannot follow exactly what he did for Turkey here in Pakistan. Pakistan has its own environment. Therefore, we need to do something indigenous for Pakistan, and that is what we are doing. But I respect and admire Ataturk for what he did for Turkey."

[roshan]

[Davis]

[Gauge]

Articles:

Pak, Bangladesh and the country in between:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DH21Df02.html

Could this be new Pakistani military technology :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-389122,00.html
(Copy and paste whole link into browser...it has commas in it...)

Backlash for Musharraf:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DH20Df07.html

Deadly Minuet:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28823-2002Aug16.html

[CroMagnon]

[CroMagnon]

[Gauge]

Article on Omar Sheikh:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-7-389624,00.html

(Cro, I tried putting it in between [ url ] and [ /url ] markup but I get starnge output...it is repeated twice and the link breaks at the comma like this

[url] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-7-389624,00.html [/url]

...so you'll have to do the copy and paste again

Gauge[/quote]

[yeezevee]

Indocentric Skewed Logic of former chief of Pakistan Air Force.

Future of democracy: By Mohammad Asghar Khan
http://www.dawn.com/2002/08/22/op.htm

this guy is such a stupid he doesn't even know the population of Pakisthan:""Pakistan's population of 14 million will be 25 million in another 20 years and 50 million by 2050.

yeezeveee

[SkewitontheBarbie]

Yo Yeezevee:

Bro can you do us a favor and tell us the history you were taught in your textbooks, if you indeed were schooled in Pakistan. I would be very interested to know if what Gauge has linked is true.

Thanks

peace

[Nicolei]

From Friedman's column with the NY Times 14 August, 2002:

The more time you spend in India the more you realize that this teeming, multiethnic, multireligious, multilingual country is one of the world's great wonders, a miracle with message. And the message is that democracy matters.

This truth hits you from every corner. Consider Bangalore, where the traffic is now congested by all the young Indian techies, many from the lower-middle classes, who have gotten jobs, apartments and motor scooters by providing the brainpower for the world's biggest corporations. While the software designs of these Indian techies may be rocket science, what made Bangalore what it is today is something very simple: 50 years of Indian democracy and secular education, and 15 years of economic liberalization, produced all this positive energy.

Just across the border in Pakistan where the people have the same basic blood, brains and civilizational heritage as here, 50 years of failed democracy, military coups and imposed religiosity have produced 30,000 madrassahs, Islamic schools, which have replaced a collapsed public school system and churn out Pakistani youth who know only the Koran and hostility toward non-Muslims.

----By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/14/opinion/14FRIE.html
_________________
And the truth shall set you free

[Gauge]

Hi,
I found this interview of Musharraf on the net...at first I thought it was subtely satirical...it's real! (Enjoy!...the highlights are mine...note it is incomplete, I believe...)

Interview with Pakistani CEO Parvez Musharraf

Q. How many children do you have?
A. Two. A son and daughter.

Q. If your daughter would come and tell you that she
would like to marry an Indian .... a terrific Indian. "A
doctor", Would you object?
A. If it's a Muslim Indian I wouldn't. If it's a Hindu
Indian I would certainly object.

Q. You would object? If she would be willing to marry,
let's say, a Catholic American, Irish American?
A. I would again object.

Q. Do you think that Pakistan, in general, Pakistani
society, treats its minorities or different ethnic
groups better or worse than India treats it own?
A. 200 times better!
Q. 200 times better?
A. If not more.
I'm very sure of that and this is, again, an
unfortunate wrong perception that Indians create against
Pakistan, of our being not accommodating enough against
the minorities and our having extremist attitudes
towards the minorities. There is nothing farther than
the truth.

Q. With the risk of irritating you, you said a short
time ago that you would not be happy to see your
daughter marrying a Catholic or a non-Muslim. Doesn't
this reflect some kind of intolerance towards,...
A. No, I would beg to differ. This is not intolerance. I
would love to interact with anybody of any religion and
I have been interacting. I have been abroad and I've
been interacting, in fact, let me tell you that when I
was at the Royal College of Defense Studies, I respected
the Israeli officer very much and my interaction with
him and also with his wife was very pleasant. So I have
no intolerance against any kind of interaction. But when
it comes to marriages that you are talking of, now this
is a totally different issue. There are cultural
differences involved and there are societal differences
involved and therefore that is the reason when I said
that I would not like my daughter to be married to a
Hindu Indian, that doesn't mean that I am intolerant. I
interacted very well with the Indian Hindu officer who
was there on the same course. He was my neighbour and we
interacted very well with him.

Q. You point a finger at the media, saying that the
media tilts strongly toward the Indian side?
A. Yes. Certainly. I strongly believe that this is the
case. There are a lot of Indians in the media,
controlling the media and that is the unfortunate part,
they distort facts. Actually perceptions that are not
the reality.

Q. You are speaking about Indians who work as English
journalists in England, and American journalists in
America? Are you claiming that their heart is really
with India? A. First of all there are a lot of Indians
in all places in the international media ....
television, newspaper .

Q. Sure. There are talented Indians.
A. These Indians do have actually an interest
themselves, and they also influence others, those who
are around them, those of other nationalities.

Q. A plebiscite was offered in Kashmir by the United
Nations in 1948. Do you still want it?
A. Yes. Certainly. That is our position.
Q. Now, going back to what you said before, If the
results would be pro-India, would you still accept them?
A. Well, I am more than hundred percent sure that the
(plebiscite-R.L.)results will not be pro-India.


Q. What if the people of Kashmir will vote for
independence?
A. There's no room for that. They have to
vote either for India or for Pakistan.

Q. Kindly mention to me the four countries that are good
friends of Pakistan.
A. Okay. Number one, China. Turkey. Saudi Arabia. Abu
Dhabi.

Q. Abu Dhabi is not a very big country.
A. (Here the Pakistani Ambassador suddenly joins in, and
corrects his chief executive: "UAE, United Arab
Emirates, and the chief executive accepts.)

Q. You don't
count the United States as one.
A. Well.

Q. I said "good" friends.
A. We have been good friends but not all that. ..

Q. Do you think that the nuclear weapons now present in
both India and Pakistan make the sub-continent more, or
less secure?
A. More secure, I think.

Q. The people of India and Pakistan have shared a
history of several thousand years, shared language,
shared cuisine, music and common culture. Yet, there are
more Muslims remaining in India than there are in
Pakistan. Is that true?
A. Population wise, is this true. I don't think it is
true that India has more Muslim than we have. But I
would like to comment on the first part when you talked
about our history and our commonality. I do beg to
differ. Our history is totally different. Our heroes are
their villains and vice-versa. Our culture is absolute
the opposite. They consider cows as their gods. We
slaughter cows and eat them .

Q. Didn't India's culture stem partly from the area of
what is Pakistan now?
A. No. The Buddhist culture originated from Pakistan.
But the Hindu culture did not originate from Pakistan.

Ranan R. Lurie is a Senior Adjunct Fellow with the CSIS,
The Washington based think tank, the political
cartoonist for FOREIGN AFFAIRS magazine, and an
internationally syndicated political analyst/cartoonist


Hey this guy is good...better than Bush and Quayle put together...

Tragicomix