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The Contrast of the Teachings of Buddha and Muhammad
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Ari



Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another blow to Menj:

Meditation catches on...

Zen and the Art of Corporate Productivity
More companies are battling employee stress with meditation

http://www.businessweek.com/@@kva3UmYQlJAEWgUA/premium/content/03_30/b3843076.htm?se=1

For Dave Jakubowski, vice-president of business development for Internet service provider United
Online (UNTD ) Inc., the job isn't what it used to be. Instead of an unlimited expense account and
stays at the plush Chateau Marmont, the 31-year-old Manhattanite now brown-bags his lunch and
stays at a Hyatt when he's in Los Angeles on business. He logs 18-hour days to help his Westlake
Village (Calif.)-based company hit its quarterly sales targets of around $8 million. How to cope?
Jakubowski is no breathe-like-a-tree kind of guy. "I'm in business," he says, "and I need
results." So he recently turned to a mat and 60 minutes of silence. "It's amazing," he says of his
new meditation practice. "I'm able to sort through work challenges in this state of calm much
faster than trying to fight through it. And I make fewer mistakes."

Increasingly, the overstretched and overburdened have a new answer to work lives of gunning harder
for what seems like less and less: Don't just do something -- sit there. Companies increasingly
are falling for the allure of meditation, too, offering free, on-site classes. They're being won
over, in part, by findings at the National Institutes of Health, the University of Massachusetts,
and the Mind/Body Medical Institute at Harvard University that meditation enhances the qualities
companies need most from their knowledge workers: increased brain-wave activity, enhanced
intuition, better concentration, and the alleviation of the kinds of aches and pains that plague
employees most.

It doesn't hurt that meditation has some high-profile corporate disciples, including bond-fund
king William H. Gross, of Newport Beach (Calif.)'s Pacific Investment Management Co., who often
meditates with yoga before a day of trading at his $349 billion money-management firm. Tech
outfits like Apple Computer (AAPL ), Yahoo!, and Google, which already offers an organic chef and
an on-site masseuse, are also signing up. So are white-shoe, Old Economy outfits like consulting
firm McKinsey, Deutsche Bank, and Hughes Aircraft.

There are no hard numbers on how many companies have added meditation benefits, but the anecdotal
evidence is mounting. And it's no surprise that more employers are seeking a new corporate balm.
The National Institute for Occupational Safety & Health finds that stress-related ailments cost
companies about $200 billion a year in increased absenteeism, tardiness, and the loss of talented
workers. Between 70% to 90% of employee hospital visits are linked to stress. And job tension is
directly tied to a lack of productivity and loss of competitive edge. "Stress is pretty much the
No. 1 health problem in the workplace," says Eric Biskamp, co-founder of WorkLife Seminars in
Dallas, who has begun teaching one-on-one meditation skills to executives at Texas Instruments
(TXN ), Raytheon (RTN ) and Nortel Networks (NT ).

Meditation quiets mental chatter, explains coach Tevis Trower of New York's Balance Integration
Corp., which develops meditation and yoga programs for large corporations. "It lays the foundation
for better decision-making and communication," she says. Adds Viacom (VIA ) International Inc.'s
manager of work/life and training, Lisa Grossman: "These programs sound a little out there. But
they have a positive impact."

Sometimes meditation classes are offered as a gesture of thanks for a job well done. Consider AOL
Time Warner Inc., where the sales and marketing group was reduced from 850 to 500 people three
years ago. Meditation classes were incorporated to help employees deal with the new 12-hour days.

Other companies have added classes to help break up the drudgery of day-long meetings. AstraZeneca
(AZN ) Pharmaceuticals in Wilmington, Del., now offers three meditation courses aimed at
energizing its 5,000 employees during and after marathon powwows. "We usually had a coffee and a
Danish on our meeting breaks and would go right into a sugar slump," says spokeswoman Lorraine
Ryan.

The icing for companies is that meditation programs come cheap. "Everybody is dealing with limited
dollars," says Grossman. "It's important to keep things going when times aren't so good." So
employees can breathe easy: This is one perk that isn't likely to get axed.


By Mara Der Hovanesian in New York
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Mullah Mo



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ultraman agul wrote:


"Ignored" is more like it, but "stomped dead" is hardly what I would call the reality of Buddhist idol-worship that is currently flourishing in South-East Asia:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=buddhist++worshipping&sa=N&tab=wi




One word “Animism”. That’s why they do it. It was the belief system before Buddhism had arrived. You see, Buddhism is such a religion that gives that kind of freedom. You can keep your indigenous religion while you’re practicing Buddhism.

If anyone having a hard time understanding it, here’s is a better way to look at it. I know you all are familiar with Martial Arts right?

If Martial Art is for the body – better understanding of the body – Buddhism is for the mind.

Umm.....we all know you ignore the truth.
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Reynolds



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything which Ari has said here about the contrast between Islam and Buddhism is true. I happen to be studying Buddhism at uni at the moment and we just finished reading about his speech to the Kalamas, the 'doctrine of free enquiry'. I was quite impressed.

This morning, I came across something else which may be of interest, concerning the Buddhism concept of 'Right Livelihood' (Part of the 8-fold Path to enlightenment). I quote:

Quote:
"Right livelihood means earning a living in a way that does not violate these basic moral values (i.e. respect for truth, welfare of others, and for life, property and personal relationships).

Five kinds of livelihood are discouraged for Buddhists: trading in animals for slaughter, slaves, arms, poisons and intoxicants. These five are not recommended because they contribute to the ills of society and violate the the values of respect for life and for the welfare of others." (The Fundamentals of Buddhism, pg. 53)


Well, Muhammad got 2 out of 5. Funny how a man who claims to be the example for all mankind and to receive revelation from an omniscient God couldn't see past (or even before) 7th century Arabia to see how repugnant mankind would view his ways, or couldn't come up with simple humane rules such as the Buddha who lived 1200 years before him. But who cares for humanity when you're trying to establish an empire right?
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Ari



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Reynold,
Welcome to the forum and please add up this thread with what you have learnt about the contrast between Buddhism (or other religions) and Islam. It's very important to give Muslims a clear reference to other and authentic philosophies/religions to show them why people think their religion is super backward and despicable. A lot of Muslims have been indoctrinated since childhood on how perfect Islam is but they never had a chance to know and learn other religions, esp. the non-semitic ones, to really know that Islam is indeed the most perfect.

Thanks for your contribution.


Ari
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Ari



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another very important aspect that distinguishes the Buddha's teachings with Muhammad's is non-clinginess. While Buddhism seeks to show a path of liberation from all bondage that creates suffering, Islam, like any other cult, demands absolute obedience, clinginess and loyalty from its followers.

Here is what the Buddha says on the subject:

Quote:
Ditthupadana: Clinging to views. Desire to be or not to be produces bias and attachment to views, theories, religious ideologies or philosophical systems, and in turn methods, ideas, creeds and teachings. When views are clung to they become identified with as part of one's self. Thus, when confronted with a theory or view which contradicts one's own, it is taken as a personal threat. The self must fight to defend its position, which in turn gives rise to all kinds of conflicts. The process tends to bind the mind into tight corners where the functioning of wisdom is impaired. Such thoughts and views do not provide knowledge, but rather obstruct it.


Clearly the majority of Muslims fall victim to this folly. They make the most inflexible and totalitarian religionists on earth.

Quote:
Silabbatupadana: Clinging to mere rules and rituals. The desire to be and the fear of dissolution, together with attachment to views, in turn lead to blind adherence to those practices and methods, such as magic and occultism, which are believed to effectuate the desired result. The desire for self-preservation and self-expression manifest outwardly as blind attachment to modes of behavior, traditions, methods, creeds and institutions. There is no understanding of their true value or meaning. This in effect means that the creation of these methodologies and practices leads to stricture and confusion, making it difficult to effect any self-improvement or to derive any true benefit from them.


This is very true of Muslims as well. We have heard on many ocassions how Muslim clerics remind Muslims not to be involved in any way in another religion's holiday celebrations or rituals, even give a Christmas greeting is considered haraam by a number of them. It is called bidah or innovation and it is a grave sin in Islam.

Quote:
The Danger of Bid’ah (Innovation) -

Shaad Ahmed

Bid’ah is taken from the word Al-Bada’ meaning to create something without precedence. One needs to distinguish between the two kinds of bid’ah. The first type is innovation in matters of the world in technology, medicine, computers, etc. This is allowed because it involves matters of life. The second kind of bid’ah is innovation in matters of religion, and this is the bid’ah which this article is focusing on.

‘Aisha(R) reported Muhammad(S) said: "Whoever innovates into this affair of ours something that we have not commanded it is to be rejected" (Bukhari and Muslim)

Jaabir (R) narrated Muhammad(S) said, "To proceed: The best speech is the Book of Allah and the best guidance and example is that of Muhammad, and the worse of all things are the newly invented things (in the religion), for every innovation is a error and a misguidance." (Muslim) "…Every innovation is a going astray and every going astray is in the fire." (Tirmidhi)

This shows us there are no acceptable innovations in Islam. People often point to the statement of Umar (R) when talking about the tarawih prayer in Ramadan, "What a good bid’ah this is." We can see Umar (R) simply revived the praying of tarawih and it was not something which he did which was not done by Muhammad (S). We can not do something in Islam which was not done by Muhammad (S) and the Sahaba (companions of Prophet Muhammad (S)).

Allah says (what means):

"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" (Al-Maidah 5: 3)

Our religion is already perfect, so doing some deed which is not found in the Qur’an and Sunnah, one seems to think they have come up with a better version of Islam than Allah revealed did. May Allah keep us away from doing such deeds. For Allah tells us about doing something other than the way Muhammad (S) did:

"And let those who oppose the Messenger’s way beware, lest some conflict befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them." (Al-Noor 24:62)

Allah has warned us by telling us what happened to the people of the Book.

"Say, O people of the Book exceed not the bounds in your religion, trespassing beyond the truth. Nor follow the vain desires of people who went astray in times gone by, who mislead many and strayed from the even way. Curses were pronounced on those among the children of Israel who were disbelievers, by the tongue of David and of Jesus son of Mary, because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses." (Al-Maidah 5:77-7Cool

We can also see another consequence of falling into bid’ah by the following hadith, Muhammad (S) said, "Verily I shall proceed you to the Fountain (Al-Kawthar). Whosoever will pass by me shall drink (from it) and never get thirsty. People whom I know and who will know me will certainly come to me for drink but there will be a barrier between them and me. Then I will say, "Verily they are of me.’ It will be said, ‘You certainly do not know what bid’ah (innovation) they made after you.’ Then I shall say, "Be off those who made bid’ah after me.’ (Bukhari and Muslim)

Abdullah Ibn Masood narrated, "The Messenger of Allah (S) drew a line for us and then said, ‘This is Allah’s Straight Path.’ Then he drew lines to its right and left, then he said, ‘These are paths, upon every one of them there is a devil calling towards it.’ (Ahmad)

Then he (Muhammad (S)) recited (from the Qur’an (what means)):

"Verily this is My Straight path, so follow it and follow not (other) paths, they will separate you away from His path. This He has ordained for you that you may become pious." (Al-Anam 6:153)


As the result of such unquestioning clinginess, we find a lot of bigoted, irrational and hostile views common among many Muslims like this one:

http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Sabeel/sabeel8.htm

Quote:
How should Muslims React to Christmas?

Being the custodians of Truth and the 'Best Ummah created for mankind" and "witnesses unto Mankind", we Muslims just can't stay still as the society around us is entrapped by Satan. Enjoining good and forbidding evil should be our theme.

The foremost thing to realize is that Christmas is a big innovation which is leading a big part of humanity to shirk (associating partners with God). Christianity has transgressed the limits set by Allah; therefore showing happiness and joy on Christmas, Halloween, Easter, Good Friday is like shaking hands with Satan and telling him to carry on the good work.

Remember Allah commandment to us in the Quran:

"Help you one another in virtue and righteousness, but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allah, verily Allah is severe in punishment". (Quran, 5:2)

Therefore, a Muslim can't enjoin in any aspect of Christmas in the disguise that Jesus is our Prophet too, we are just honoring him by celebrating Christmas. We should recognize the bidah of Christmas and the Prophet's warning that all bidah should be rejected. Therefore, accepting Christmas invitations, attending Christmas parties, buying small plastic Christmas trees to please the kids (some Muslims actually do) should be avoided.

By greeting Christians with 'merry Christmas' we are legitimizing Christmas, by driving out on Christmas eve to witness the decoration of houses, we are appreciating bidah with our eyes, by placing our kids on the laps of Santa in the malls we are handing them in the hands of a fiend, by closing our Islamic Schools or shops during Christmas we are giving it our silent approval, by selling Christmas items in our shops, we are strengthening the pillars of Kufr.

By purchasing for children books with Christmas themes ('The Night before Christmas'), by watching Christmas movies and by giving holidays to our regular Islamic schools or weekend schools, we are passing them a misguided message.

Indeed Islam came to tear down the pillars of kufr and replace them with the pillars of Islam. Armed with facts on Christmas and eloquent words of Islam, the door of Dawah to the Christians should be wisely open.

When the Christians see us restraining from observing Christmas, they will curiously ask us for the reason. This opportunity should be used by each single Muslim to discuss Islam and invite non-Muslims to Islam.

It is highly recommended for all Muslims to carry brochures on Islam with them to pass on to non-Muslim classmates, co-workers, neighbors etc. after discussing Islam. Free brochures on various topics on Islam can be obtained by calling 1-718-658-1199 (for U.S. and Canadian residents).

Writing articles in campus and local newspapers on 'Jesus (pbuh) in Islam', conducting soup kitchens in impoverished neighborhoods, clothing drives in schools and college campuses for the needy etc. are some proper modes of conduct during the Christmas holiday season.

Thus the hearts and minds of non-Muslims should be exposed to the beautiful message of Islam.

Truth comes, falsehood disappears; Islam came, now shirk must clear.

Sabeel Ahmed

October 1997.


Another link about bidah:
http://quraan.com/Bidah/Bidah.asp

Compare all of the above again with such profound and interestingly modern and scientific wisdom of the genius Buddha that was so far ahead of his time:

Quote:
If you cling to an idea as the inalterable truth, then when the truth does come in person and knock at your door, you will not be able to open the door and accept it.

-Buddha Gautama



Ari
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Reynolds



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ari,
Another great example there I must say. I will, however, digress from this opinion of yours, that Muslims "make the most inflexible and totalitarian religionists on earth". Totalitarian maybe. But inflexibility is the trait of anyone who claims to hold onto 'absolute truths'. From the fundamentalist Jews who claim a God-given right to Israel (based on invented theological history), to the fundamentalist Christians who will still hold onto the belief that the world is only 6 thousand years old despite the glaring proofs otherwise. Fundamentalism is the enemy, no matter what form it comes in. I think to make a sweeping generalisation that Muslims are the 'most' inflexible is a tad unfair. Just my opinion of course. What do you think?
Thanks again,
Reynolds.
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Ari



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reynolds wrote:
Hi Ari,
Another great example there I must say. I will, however, digress from this opinion of yours, that Muslims "make the most inflexible and totalitarian religionists on earth". Totalitarian maybe. But inflexibility is the trait of anyone who claims to hold onto 'absolute truths'. From the fundamentalist Jews who claim a God-given right to Israel (based on invented theological history), to the fundamentalist Christians who will still hold onto the belief that the world is only 6 thousand years old despite the glaring proofs otherwise. Fundamentalism is the enemy, no matter what form it comes in. I think to make a sweeping generalisation that Muslims are the 'most' inflexible is a tad unfair. Just my opinion of course. What do you think?
Thanks again,
Reynolds.


Well... we do generalise, and that's alright and useful. My experience and observation tells me that Muslims, IN GENERAL (of course, we can't talk case by case can we?), are the most inflexible and with it also, IN GENERAL, the most intolerant, when it comes to clinging to their own ways/rituals. Of course there is exception and I have seen open-minded Muslims, but it's usually because they are not strict Muslims to begin with (well, I guess, it kinda goes without saying, doesn't it? Smile ) And I know what you mean, I've seen very fanatical Christians and Jews too who think clinging to their ways/rituals is a matter of life and death but again IN GENERAL Christians/Jews are flexible enough so that they can accommodate a lot differing views and ways so that they can progress and leave behind barbarism that we often see conducted by Muslims UNPUNISHED.

I think you can know this only when you have lived among Muslims in a Muslim/Islamic society.

Ari
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Crow



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reynolds: "Well, Muhammad got 2 out of 5. Funny how a man who claims to be the example for all mankind and to receive revelation from an omniscient God couldn't see past (or even before) 7th century Arabia to see how repugnant mankind would view his ways, or couldn't come up with simple humane rules such as the Buddha who lived 1200 years before him. But who cares for humanity when you're trying to establish an empire right?"

Applauds Very Happy
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Ari



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another thing about flexibility is Reynold, Muslims often very proud about the fact that islam is very rigid and specific. Time and time again we are told that people convert to Islam because it offers much more rigid structure than their previous religions. It offers more security to these people. Christianity in many ways have the same characteristics as islam, but it lacks in structure: no dress code, dietary code, and other provision on how to conduct its followers' secular life. For some Christians, this is just not enough. They want monotheism that tells them everything. The more inflexible a religion is for them, the easier it gets because the less they have to think and make a choice.


Ari
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ultraman agul



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.menj.net/pejuang/archives/000043.htm
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ultraman agul



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan


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Reynolds



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Muslims often very proud about the fact that islam is very rigid and specific.


True Ari, and I used to be one of them! We used to mock how the Christians now allow homosexual priests, and how much they change their religion etc, and how Islam will never change. The irony is that the rigidity is the exact same reason why I started to see Islam as stuck in time and unable to move. Now it is for the rest of the world to adapt to the customs of Muhammad's Arabia, or else the rest of the world is backward!
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ultraman agul



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reynolds wrote:
Quote:
Muslims often very proud about the fact that islam is very rigid and specific.


True Ari, and I used to be one of them! We used to mock how the Christians now allow homosexual priests, and how much they change their religion etc, and how Islam will never change. The irony is that the rigidity is the exact same reason why I started to see Islam as stuck in time and unable to move. Now it is for the rest of the world to adapt to the customs of Muhammad's Arabia, or else the rest of the world is backward!


It is precisely the "rigidity" of the basic doctrines of Islam which is why Islam will perservere through the ages, as much as its enemies dislike it. We know what was the fate of the pagan Meccans when they tried to destroy Islam. The same fate will eventually befall upon those who oppose it, insha'allah.

Amin, Amin...Thumma, Amin!

- MENJ
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Reynolds



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Menj wrote:
Excerpt 3:
"This book is suitable for readers who wish to get a good introduction to the history of Islam. A good point to note is that it does not incorporate the cliche biasness that the west perceives of the religion and its followers. If you wish to find stories about terrorism, PLO and Osama bin Laden then this is not the book for you, the closest you can get to that is the ancient assassin sect. From the book, one can appreciate how much Islam has enriched civilization!"

Sigh....if only there are more people like them in this world, drowning the voices of the Islamophobics. Then the world would certainly be a much better, safer place to live in.


If you don't look at the ugly things in this world, then everything's beautiful...

Dear Menj, I am the first to recognise Islam as a religion that has given millions of people hope and meaning and it led the world at one time in the fields of knowledge and science. But I am also fair-minded enough to recognise its ugly aspects too, documented in scripture and history.
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ultraman agul



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reynolds wrote:

Dear Menj, I am the first to recognise Islam as a religion that has given millions of people hope and meaning and it led the world at one time in the fields of knowledge and science. But I am also fair-minded enough to recognise its ugly aspects too, documented in scripture and history.


Its "ugly" aspects are mostly propagated by groups like the Khawarij, and has nothing to do with Islam in general. If you claim to be fair-minded person, then you would realise that there is nothing "rigid" in Islam or otherwise it would have never lead the world in the fields of knowledge and science, as per your own admission.

Since you have quoted 'excerpt 3', why not proceed further and quote from 'excerpt 2'?

Quote:

Excerpt 2:
"This is not dry history, by any means, but a vivid description of Islam and its origins, practices, and political rule. It's not sensationalist and/or imbued with the "Islam as Enemy Number One" mentality that pervades so many modern books about Islam (many of which are written by journalists or other people not qualified to be writing about Islam, Muslims (American or not) and the Muslim world in the first place). It's just fascinating reading about the second largest religion in the world and how it built the most glittering civilization the world had ever seen. The authors themselves say that to understand Islam today, we must focus not on the misdeeds committed by a few in its name, but "appreciate its glorious history and achievements." It doesn't have much on Islamic beliefs and practices or Islam and politics: it really is mostly history. But it's history that puts Islam (modern and past) into perspective and that will (hopefully) help us Westerners put some of myths about Islam finally to rest."


(and some people actually believe that Buddhism is a "success"...a total absurdity!)

- MENJ
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Reynolds



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a book I saw recently which documents, with plenty of evidence, slavery in the Islamic world. I wonder if your book mentions anything like that? If it does, then good- it well be well-balanced; but to ignore it is simply unjust.
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adnan



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ultraman agul wrote:
(and some people actually believe that Buddhism is a "success"...a total absurdity!)

Menj on his website wrote:

http://www.menj.net/pejuang/archives/000039.htm
Such attempt at discourse/open dialogue amongst prominent scholars of the Muslim world is refreshing to see, in these hard times where the Muslim ummah is at its weakest point in the 21st century. It is hoped that the brightest minds of the Muslim world would come up with the solution to the problems of the Muslim world that has plagued us for so long.

Hi Menj,
Can you tell us how Bhuddism has been less successful than Islam?

- ADNAN
(former Muslim)
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ultraman agul



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adnan wrote:

Hi Menj,
Can you tell us how Bhuddism has been less successful than Islam?


http://www.menj.net/buddhism (yet-to-be released)

Quote:
IIX. BUDDHISM IN THE WORLD TODAY

It is true that Buddhism has today managed to establish itself as a world religion. However, never had Buddhism, at any point in history, able to develop itself into a universal religion that would dominate over nations and world affairs. This was equally true for the other world religions in the same religious situation after the rise of Christianity and before the advent of Islam, such as Hinduism, Zoroastrianism and Judaism. Such religions were never intended as a world force to be spread beyond the confines of their own nation or tribe.

In the case of Judaism, it was a national religion confined to only a race of people living in the lands encompassing a Diaspora; and as such could not have possibly disseminated itself to other nations of the world. Zoroastrianism was too a national religion, though not in the same light as Judaism, which held on to cultural and traditional traits of the ancient Persians, and could not be adopted to other people of the world. The same could also be said for Hinduism and Buddhism, which do not possess the salvic spirit of mission, which was necessary to make a religion universally acceptable. No doubt that Buddhism did spread in later centuries to China and Japan and South East Asia, as did too Hinduism in the latter, but this was not necessarily because of any salvic spirit of mission. Moreover, Buddhism’s traditional influence extended only among the peoples of the tangential regions.

Today, Buddhism is no longer appealing for those living in Asia and familiar with its tenets, or the practices of its adherents. In China, for example, the two main Buddhist schools, (a) Chang-tsung (or School of Meditation) appeals mostly to intellectual elites, but today they are mostly atheistic but deeply searching for a religion and meaning in life; (b) the Tsing school (the “Pure Land”, also called “Great Western Paradise”) which is more popular among common people has degraded today into a form of worship of the Buddha as a heavenly helper, but without much conviction.

It is also true to say that Buddhism has enthused nothing but backwardness in society. Since desire is the root of all suffering in the world, it was unnecessary for one to strive for personal betterment and societal well-being, and to live as is. This has induced a deep, unconscious pessimism in their outlook towards life, as it is prevalent in Buddhist societies or predominantly Buddhist nations. Therefore it is of no surprise that in modern history, there has not been a single Buddhist nation that has adopted the principles of democracy or good governance for long. Nearly all the Buddhist nations of today were or are currently being ruled by either by dictatorships, military juntas or Communist regimes. The ones that do not fall in the above descriptions are influenced by Western secularism, which continuously sees Islam as a challenge to its worldview.

It is clear that Buddhist teachings or ideology does not give a clear criteria on what consists of an ideal government or legal system, as its teachings were only primarily concerned with the development of an individual, and not society as a whole. Perhaps Buddhism has not overseen the problem that emphasis on meditation may work for some individuals, but not for others.


- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan
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Ari



Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ultraman agul wrote:
adnan wrote:

Hi Menj,
Can you tell us how Bhuddism has been less successful than Islam?


http://www.menj.net/buddhism (yet-to-be released)

Quote:
IIX. BUDDHISM IN THE WORLD TODAY

It is true that Buddhism has today managed to establish itself as a world religion. However, never had Buddhism, at any point in history, able to develop itself into a universal religion that would dominate over nations and world affairs. This was equally true for the other world religions in the same religious situation after the rise of Christianity and before the advent of Islam, such as Hinduism, Zoroastrianism and Judaism. Such religions were never intended as a world force to be spread beyond the confines of their own nation or tribe.

In the case of Judaism, it was a national religion confined to only a race of people living in the lands encompassing a Diaspora; and as such could not have possibly disseminated itself to other nations of the world. Zoroastrianism was too a national religion, though not in the same light as Judaism, which held on to cultural and traditional traits of the ancient Persians, and could not be adopted to other people of the world. The same could also be said for Hinduism and Buddhism, which do not possess the salvic spirit of mission, which was necessary to make a religion universally acceptable. No doubt that Buddhism did spread in later centuries to China and Japan and South East Asia, as did too Hinduism in the latter, but this was not necessarily because of any salvic spirit of mission. Moreover, Buddhism’s traditional influence extended only among the peoples of the tangential regions.

Today, Buddhism is no longer appealing for those living in Asia and familiar with its tenets, or the practices of its adherents. In China, for example, the two main Buddhist schools, (a) Chang-tsung (or School of Meditation) appeals mostly to intellectual elites, but today they are mostly atheistic but deeply searching for a religion and meaning in life; (b) the Tsing school (the “Pure Land”, also called “Great Western Paradise”) which is more popular among common people has degraded today into a form of worship of the Buddha as a heavenly helper, but without much conviction.

It is also true to say that Buddhism has enthused nothing but backwardness in society. Since desire is the root of all suffering in the world, it was unnecessary for one to strive for personal betterment and societal well-being, and to live as is. This has induced a deep, unconscious pessimism in their outlook towards life, as it is prevalent in Buddhist societies or predominantly Buddhist nations. Therefore it is of no surprise that in modern history, there has not been a single Buddhist nation that has adopted the principles of democracy or good governance for long. Nearly all the Buddhist nations of today were or are currently being ruled by either by dictatorships, military juntas or Communist regimes. The ones that do not fall in the above descriptions are influenced by Western secularism, which continuously sees Islam as a challenge to its worldview.

It is clear that Buddhist teachings or ideology does not give a clear criteria on what consists of an ideal government or legal system, as its teachings were only primarily concerned with the development of an individual, and not society as a whole. Perhaps Buddhism has not overseen the problem that emphasis on meditation may work for some individuals, but not for others.


- MENJ


Lame...lame... You still havent' anwswered the question what is the evidence of their backwardness (and what bout those buddhist nations which prosper) and if indeed they are backward, which part of Buddhism that encourages it? And if they are based on Buddhist precerpts. And what do you say about worse backwardness we see in Muslim countries??? Why do you discount this? Does this mean that islam is less successful than Buddhism? (of course it is, just a rhetorical question Smile )

Then you don't explain why Buddhism flourishes in the West among the most educated and intelligent as well as scientists. And you still havent' answered why sciectists scrutinise and prove that Buddhism works for most people who practice it. And you still haven't answered that Buddhism/meditation works wonder in reforming inmates in India and UK. It curtails by significant percentage the rate of repeat of offense.

Again you havent' answered what's so pessimistic about religion that preaches that suffering can end and prescribe the medicine to cure this disease.

You haven't answered that Thailand is one of the most prosperous and politically stable countries in Asia. Coup in Thailand has never been bloody nor created chaos and instability. People are free to worship or not worship.

You still don't understand that salvation in Buddhism is the end of suffering. It is self-mastery and understanding of one's own mind, instead of a virgin-filled paradise lured to the more undeveloped in the spiritual and intellectual realms. Most Buddhists have outgrown this infantile dependence on promise of bodily pleasures.

Buddhism is admittedly more appealing to the more intelligent and spiritually and mentally more developed, it is a credit instead of a proof of failure.

You are still as dumb as ever, sad to say Cool And hell who is going to read your primer but equally dumb people like yourself?



Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein
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ultraman agul



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ari wrote:

Lame...lame... You still havent' anwswered the question what is the evidence of their backwardness (and what bout those buddhist nations which prosper) and if indeed they are backward, which part of Buddhism that encourages it?


I know that is still quite "lame" for you, which is why I specifically marked the text as " yet-to-be released". Which part of the phrase do you not understand?

For the second part of your question, i.e. which part of Buddhism encourages the "backwardness", this has been explained in the excerpt I pasted in another thread dealing with the issue of Buddhist ethics and social order. But I am not sure whether you had noticed a passing mention of this induced state of pessimism in the above post:

Quote:
It is also true to say that Buddhism has enthused nothing but backwardness in society. Since desire is the root of all suffering in the world, it was unnecessary for one to strive for personal betterment and societal well-being, and to live as is. This has induced a deep, unconscious pessimism in their outlook towards life, as it is prevalent in Buddhist societies or predominantly Buddhist nations. Therefore it is of no surprise that in modern history, there has not been a single Buddhist nation that has adopted the principles of democracy or good governance for long. Nearly all the Buddhist nations of today were or are currently being ruled by either by dictatorships, military juntas or Communist regimes. The ones that do not fall in the above descriptions are influenced by Western secularism, which continuously sees Islam as a challenge to its worldview.


That's your answer.

<snipping rest for brevity>

I will include the issues you have raised and would definately comment on them in the booklet, insha'allah.

Quote:
Buddhism is admittedly more appealing to the more intelligent and spiritually and mentally more developed


I won't even bother answering that. You'll see when the time arrives.

Quote:
And hell who is going to read your primer but equally dumb people like yourself?


At the very least, I have opened the door for Muslims to realise lack of the salvic spirit of mission that is evident in Buddhist soteriology its repugnant view of life. That Buddhism's sine qua non is that all mankind and the creation is endless suffering, and the world is neccessarily evil doesn't bode much for the outlook of Buddhist ethics and social order.
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Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan
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Ari



Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
It is also true to say that Buddhism has enthused nothing but backwardness in society. Since desire is the root of all suffering in the world, it was unnecessary for one to strive for personal betterment and societal well-being, and to live as is. This has induced a deep, unconscious pessimism in their outlook towards life, as it is prevalent in Buddhist societies or predominantly Buddhist nations. Therefore it is of no surprise that in modern history, there has not been a single Buddhist nation that has adopted the principles of democracy or good governance for long. Nearly all the Buddhist nations of today were or are currently being ruled by either by dictatorships, military juntas or Communist regimes. The ones that do not fall in the above descriptions are influenced by Western secularism, which continuously sees Islam as a challenge to its worldview.


That's your answer.


O pleassseeee...that's a very shallow and literal understanding of what it means. The fact that he said very clearly that people could transform themselves speaks volumes that Buddhism is far from teaching laziness and apathy. No great philosophers will find fault in what the Buddha teaches. Even St. John of the Cross said, “Now that I least desire them, I have them all without desire.” Bertrand Russell said, "To be without some of the things you want is an indispensible part of happiness." And he also said the road to happiness is with fewer wants. Why would he say that? He wasn't a Buddhist was he?

Here from John Stuart Mill: "I have learned to seek my happiness by limiting my desires, rather than in attempting to satisfy them."

Norman Vincent Peale said: "The way to happiness: keep your heart free from hate, your mind from worry. Live simply, expect little, give much. Fill your life with love. Scatter sunshine. Forget self, think of others. Do as you would be done by. Try this for a week and you will be surprised. "

I can quote many other greatest thinkers (many of them are rich financially) in history who say along the same line, but you get my point.

Renunciation of some sort is an authentic spiritual path of any wise man from any religion. Get out of the literal islamic cocoon will ya?? And please when you say Buddhist nations, don't forget Sri Lanka which is a democracy, Thailand which is democratic, Taiwan which is very liberal in their parliamentary system (and rowdy Smile, Vietnam, Korea are tolerant societies, Japan which is liberal and tolerant as well, and compare them to islamic nations!!!

Pessimism??? Hardly. Buddhists are filled with spirit/love of life and calmness at the same time. They see things in proportion, they practice their religion with wisdom (not blind attachment/obedience) unlike certain religionists we all know Wink

Menj, really, you should heed people's suggestions: RESEARCH FIRST BEFORE CLAIMING ANYTHING, LET ALONE WRITE A BOOK ON A SUBJECT YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF. Your ignorance of many prosperous Buddhist nations is appaling. Buddhists make the third most prosperous group of people in the world, way above Muslims. I'm not sure why you are still harping on an unfounded BS. Rolling Eyes Are you trying to humiliate yourself or what?


Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein


Last edited by Ari on Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mullah Mo



Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 470

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norman Vincent Peale?? I've read his books. He was great. Not a Muslim though...
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