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Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:59 am Post subject:

Quote:

Another pitiful joke from Menj. Laughing

I can assure you that I am dead serious about ensuring the success of the booklet "A Muslim Primer On Buddhism".

DREAM ON my dear!!! How can you teach others about Buddhism when you yourself have no clue what Buddhism is.

Quote:

Has been proven false many times.

Says you, and all you can say is repeating the claim that Buddhists are "happier and have better self-control and intellect than Muslims". The problem with your "facts" is that the studies does not say so about Buddhist doctrines as a whole, it only talks about meditation.

Hon, again being an idiot doesn't help your case. Cool

Meditation is in the heart of Buddhism and all authentic spiritual traditions. Precisely why Buddhism isn't dogmatic is because meditation is the laboratory where all the doctrines are being tested and examined. Of course islam isn't evolved enough to have this very advanced and empirical method. Precisely because Buddhism is so scientific and rational that western scientists marvel at its doctrines as well as the methods to examine the validity of those doctrines. Of course, you don't know any of this so with what are you going to equip your "booklet on Buddhism" with my dear??? With pictures of Buddhist temples in Penang you got from your vacation??? Laughing

Menj, you are not only lame brained, you are funny too... Laughing

Quote:

For you to brag or to boast about the benefits of Buddhism as a whole, there should be a comprehensive study and a comparison of all forms of meditation in all the various religions that practise it, not just Buddhism.

Yes, because as I said all AUTHENTIC spiritual traditions are empirical in nature. However, Buddhist meditation is kinda "specific" and more straight forward than many other methods of meditation. It cuts through the delusion that people suffer in the most poignant way, hence result in the happiness that all people are after.

Quote:

Your "beyond the shadow of doubt" turns out to be an ECLIPSE of doubt, and a damp firecracker. BTW, did I told you that in Islam there is a form of meditation developed by the Sufis known as takaffur? What's the difference?

You don't even know what Sufism is all about, how can you distinguish Buddhist and Sufistic meditations? Learn both and come back here.

Quote:

Hehe...only idiots will say that about the Buddha.

That's probably because only "idiots" are intellectually brave enough to venture into areas where the "intellectuals" dare not touch due to their own biased prejudices.

Hehe....your "bravado" will get the laughter and applause it deserves my dear as a piece of satire, perhaps a lame one at that, not a serious undertaking of dissecting Buddhism. Laughing

Quote:

Let it be known that I am going through with the project on "A Muslim Primer..." not for fame, or for wealth - but for the pursuit of knowledge and da'wah to fellow Muslims and non-Muslims to educate them about the lies, misguidance and errors that are to be found in the so-called religion "Buddhism". Its "prophet" was a deluded prince who dropped all his regal titles not for the pursuit of knowledge, but for the personal gain, power and wealth that comes with it.

Menj you have been saying all quaint things about any other person, who do you think will take you seriously? Laughing

Quote:

The mythologies surrounding this purported "Buddha" is nothing but a sham, designed to elevate an ignoramous prince-brat to the cult-status of god.

Hehe...you can't get over the fact that there are actually people who choose to worship an enlightened human being over your non-existent, narcissictic, mentally-ill God? If anything, the former is much better and much more sober than the later. At least Buddha worshippers never crashed a plane against tall buildings, nor did they bomb discos, public buses, nor did they become suicide bombers. Why do you think Allah worshippers resort to these most abominable ways, Menjy, while the "lost soul of Buddha worshippers" don't??? Have you ever asked this uncomfortable question?

Quote:

Though there is no evidence that the prince-brat ever condoned a worship of himself, hints that this shameful individual have in mind a goal towards personal gain could be seen when he forbid his followers to discuss the concept of God,

He didn't forbid it, he was just silent about it because the existence/non-exixtence of God was irrelevant to salvation and it only resulted in speculation and endless bickerings the proof of which we can see in all monotheistic religions. Why do you people engage so much in violence if not because endless bickering about God?? So what kind of salvation does this kind of religions bring?? What we see is the complete opposite. Muslims are the most backward people on earth. So discard your God, and just live peacefully and be good with one another, one of your many problems is then solved, voila! Wink

So, Menj, which one is more prophetic, Mo or the Buddha??? Anyone can see it for himself.

Quote:

to deny all life in this world into absolute pessimism,

That's because you don't understand Buddhist tenets. Buddhist's Noble Truth about Sufferings doesn't stop with the proclamation that life is full with sufferings but also with proclamations of the cause of these sufferings, the good news that those sufferings CAN END and THE WAYS to the cessation of all of those sufferings. You see how methodical and systematic Buddhism is??

Now tell me what is so pessimistic about that??? Buddhism isn't pessimistic nor optimistic but it is REALISTIC that only mature people can accept it. Those who choose islam are because they need crutches, they need to be pampered, to be told that they are alright as long they believe and follow blindly a rigid set of dogmas. Tell me, who is pyschologically more advanced, a Buddhist who accepts that he is fully responsible for his own destiny/life or a Muslim who is lullabied with a fairy tale of a heaven filled with sensual pleasures if they just unquestioningly obey the dogmas forced upon their throats, no matter how stupid, barbaric and insensible they are?? Again and again we are told that the main reason of people converting to Islam is because these people need either validation to their social misfit or more rigid structure they can hang on to that only a cultic religion like Islam provides. It means that these people haven't passed their infantile stage yet, so no need to brag about them! It's the total opposite to converts to Buddhism who are mostly people from higher intellectual, spiritual, emotional and psychological stages. Quantity-wise, Islam exceeds Buddhism because Islam is more of a mass-good aimed at the general population usually from lower class backgrounds, but quality-wise Buddhism is haute-couture that only a small segment of population can afford. Quoting Abdul Haseem THIS IS FACT YOU CANNOT DENY IT!!! Laughing

Quote:

advocate the ridiculous concept of "reincarnation" and to dress himself as a begger running around for alms and wealth.

Buddhists come in many different colors and shapes. Each to their own. If you want to renounce wordliness and completelty devotes yourself to spiritual life, there is the path. But if you want a "normal" life, go ahead, nobody will judge you for that. That way Buddhism provides many options on how a person wishes to conduct his/her own life as long as he/she doesn't injure anyone and is happy. Now tell me, what's wrong with that???

Quote:

If this is the kind of the person you elevate as a "wise" and "perfect" individual, I say that you are totally delusional!

The very purpose of Buddhism is to cut the chain of delusions, and this point is hammered repeatedly in its very rich and profound scriptures. Hence, your assertion is again coming from ignorance. So my dear, GOOD LOOK WITH YOUR "BOOKLET". Laughing

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

Mullah Mo

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 470

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 8:17 pm Post subject: menj

Quote:

If you think that his "work" is a "great service for humanity", there is little I can do to dissuade you from thinking otherwise. Only racists, xenophobics and Islamophobics are flocking around Sina.

First of all Islam is a religion not a race. "xenophobic"?? Islam is just that.....

Do not make friendship with the Jews and the Christians...5:51 (112)

Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable...3:85 (89)

Like you have any room to use that kind of words. LOL

Instead of trying to make up names to call to such people who criticize Islam, why don’t you ask your self a question why Islam is being criticized??

Why is Islam the world most hated religion?? Why do you have all these sites exposing Islam. Why do you have all these ex-Muslims criticizing Islam??

How come you never find ex-Buddhist putting up a site exposing and criticizing Buddhism??

Oh, I went to the site that you told me about the rebuttals of FFI. After being there for a while I know why Ali Sina has ignored you. You’re a joke.

No sane person will want to associate with a fanatic Islamic clown who act like a sales man from the fish market.

Menj, was that a picture of you holding a sign that said “Islam Will Dominate The World” ??

Dude, if it is you, you are one ugly mother f#@ker with a nose bigger then your face. LOL

If it’s not you then we know your other face. I would like to ask everyone on this post to please pay attention to the above statement in Bold.

Now back to your site.....

Quote:

An Exclusive Interview With Ali Sina

Quote:

We finally found out the reason why Ali Sina is so pissed off with Islam in general: he is a paid agent for Israeli Secret Service, the Mossad ! And apparently we shall further see how he grinds his axe. Our paid agent-cum-sabateour-cum-terrorist-cum-reporter, LOREH AL-MALUOKENTUT BUTUHMURTADIN reports from the scene of the crime.

BNN (Bawang News Network), Ali Sina's Basement - In the dank smelly underground tunnels of this rather exquisite basement which Ali Sina calls home, a couple of supercomputer machines can be seen lightened up and humming with supply generated from diesel-powered generators. Diesel-powered generators? In this modern age of science and technology?

"Its pretty simple," says Ali Sina, whom his detractors fondly refer to as Majusi . "Muslims today are very intelligent. They can sniff out Mossad agents like a pack of sniffer dogs. That is why I used diesel generators. Those @$#@^#$^ would not be able to trace me."

This is what the fuss was all about?? Is this what you invited me to come and read?? Menj, you have been diagnosed with acute case of delusional paranoia.

Oh but wait I got more. One of the rebuttals on Ibn Warraq……….it said:

Quote:

Punishing for rejecting faith-III.91
'Verily, those who disbelieve and die in disbelief, the whole earth of gold would not be accepted as a ransom. Theirs will be a painful doom, and they will have no helpers.'

And again, another example of how the liar Ibn Warraq has falsely represented a verse describing hell to make it look as though Muslims are being commanded to inflict cruelty on those who choose a different path.

This is coming from people who cherish statements like “Islam Will Dominate The World”. What happens after Islam dominate the world?? Will you give those who choose a different path a choice?? If yes, what’s the point of dominating??

Menj you're grounded. No more Quran for a week. LOL

Oh, and go get some sleep.

Egyptian Kafir

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 474

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:22 am Post subject:

hey menj...why do you hate buddhists that much while it has NOTHING against your cult ? i mean i can understand hating other 'abrahamic' religions and bashing them for a living because they closely relate to islam...but why this hatred and spite against buddhists? or is it just the itching to hate just for the sake of hatred that the holy teachings of some 7'th centurey sand dweller called Mo has sickned your mind with? it shouldnt surprise though when your "role model" is a caravan raider who beares a slogan of "my fortune is under the shade of my spear"...... _________________ “The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.” ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

Mullah Mo

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 470

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:31 pm Post subject: Menj's Link

This is the response to the website provided by none other then Menj. I read through the first few pages and all I found is lies motivated by envy to confuse the ignorant Muslims. No Buddhist or anyone who studied Buddhism will ever buy that. Islamic propaganda at it’s best.

ultraman agul wrote:

Islam and Buddhism Compared: Refuting Buddhism

http://www.harunyahya.com/buddhism01.php

- MENJ

Quote:

Throughout the world, but especially in America and Europe, some individuals have been intrigued by Buddhism

yeah yeah, we know we know.

Quote:

A number of celebrities have adopted Buddhism for similar purposes. They make speeches in Tibetan Buddhist robes to appear different from others, drawing attention to themselves perhaps to become even better known to their public. They visit Buddhist temples accompanied by Buddhist priests and also make propaganda for the Buddhist religion.

First of all, who cares what the celebrities believe in. Second, is Islam feeling jealous because the Buddha’s doctrine is being embraced by world famous celebrities like Richard Gere? The people in the West are finding Buddhism even without the help of billions of dollars of oil money from Saudi Arabia!! LOL

Don’t worry Islam you’re getting your share of celebrities also. Mike Tyson just converted. Mike also holds a criminal record ranging from “rape” to “assault and battery”. You see what kind of people Islam attracts??

Quote:

Buddhism is not, as it is generally thought to be, a belief that brings contentment. On the contrary, those who are taken into Buddhism are often drawn into a deep pessimism.

Modern science has proven otherwise. Buddhists are happier then others. Go read for your self.
http://www.newscientist.com/

Quote:

One basic reason for this is the laziness and indolence that Buddhism inculcates in its adherents. Because it lacks any faith in an eternal afterlife, Buddhism does not urge its devotees to be better or develop themselves, to beautify their environment, or to advance culturally.

Two words: Buddhist Ethics:

“Indeed, in our present historical period, when violence and terror as methods of dealing with differences between peoples appear to be replacing civility and moral principles, we may well wonder about the decline of ethics. Buddhist Ethics is a valuable guide for anyone who wonders about what ethics is, what kinds of knowledge it involves, how it contributes to attaining the highest human goals, and what the basic principles of moral life are.”
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/ew99032.htm

Quote:

Islam always urges its adherents to seek out and apply themselves to what is better and more beautiful. Islam's dynamic moral teaching requires people to research and learn, to develop themselves and be useful to their communities. In one verse of the Qur'an (35: 2 Cool

, God says that "Only those of His servants with knowledge stand truly in awe of Him."

Islam wants its followers to believe in a deity called Allah accepts his self proclaimed prophet Mohammed with out asking any kind of question about the Quran or Mohammed. Hence, Islam demands blind faith. If this follower decides one day he doesn’t want to be a Muslim anymore, he is punishable by death. Is this the quality of religion which claims to give freedom to its followers??

Quote:

In its basic beliefs, philosophy and practices, this religion is idolatrous. Buddhists hold Buddha in a heightened sense of love, deep respect and fear, even accepting him as a god.

He (the Buddha) did not force His followers to be slaves either to His teachings or to Himself, but granted complete freedom of thought and admonished His followers to accept His words not merely out of regard for Him but after subjecting them to a thorough examination,

"... as the wise would test gold by burning, cutting, and rubbing it on a piece of touchstone."

Does Islam give this kind of freedom to its followers?

Why should the Buddhists fearful of the Buddha?? Is it because he’s going to send them to hell??

Quote:

Although we have no documents from Buddha's time that suggest that he urged his followers to worship him; the Brahmans-who were already worshipping idols-quickly began to make statues of Siddhartha. And in time, those who nurtured an excessive love towards Buddha came to worship these idols and consider him a god.

Devotional Practices were common for laity in the early period. The significance of trees is not only that the Buddha was enlightened beneath one, but also that he died between two trees. Images of the Buddha were not used until 100 C.E., almost 500 years after the death of the Buddha. The most common objects of paying homage were:

A. The empty throne that recalls the spot where the Buddha attained enlightenment.

B. Footprints: these serve as a reminder that the Buddha walked among the people. Even though the Buddha has entered nirvana, his presence is felt through the path he left behind.

C. A shrine with a turban indicates the princely life that the Buddha renounced.

D. A wheel that symbolizes the first sermon (putting in motion the dhamma wheel) or the Wheel of Life.

E. The lotus flower. The lotus grows from mud and yet transcends its humble beginnings, its leaves not even touching the waters. Similarly, Buddhahood is self-created out of the defilements of existence not even touching the waters of becoming.

Quote:

As historical sources show, Buddha always chose to speak about his basic tenets and deliver his way of worship orally

Buddhism is neither a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being."

Buddhists do not worship an image expecting worldly or spiritual favors, but pay their reverence to what it represents. An understanding Buddhist, in offering flowers and incense to an image, designedly makes himself feel that he is in the presence of the living Buddha and thereby gains inspiration from his noble personality and breathes deep his boundless compassion. He tries to follow the Buddha's noble example.

The Bo-tree is also a symbol of Enlightenment. These external objects of reverence are not absolutely necessary, but they are useful as they tend to concentrate one's attention. An intellectual person could dispense with them as he could easily focus his attention and visualize the Buddha. For our own good, and out of gratitude, we pay such external respect but what the Buddha expects from his disciple is not so much obeisance as the actual observance of his Teachings. The Buddha says -- "He honors me best who practices my teaching best." "He who sees the Dhamma sees me."

With regard to images, however, Count Kevserling remarks -- -- "I see nothing more grand in this world than the image of the Buddha. It is an absolutely perfect embodiment of spirituality in the visible domain."

"Prayers take the character of private communications, selfish bargaining with God. It seeks for objects of earthly ambitions and inflames the sense of self. Meditation on the other hand is self-change." -- Sri Radhakrishnan.

In Buddhism there is not, as in most other religions, an Almighty God to be obeyed and feared. The Buddha does not believe in a cosmic potentate, omniscient and omnipresent. In Buddhism there are no divine revelations or divine messengers. A Buddhist is, therefore, not subservient to any higher supernatural power which controls his destinies and which arbitrarily rewards and punishes. ßThis is what attracts the intellectuals.

Quote:

As a religion, therefore, Buddhism suffers from a very narrow vision that keeps its believers from considering such basic questions as where they came from, or how the universe and all living things came to be.

Buddhism is not concern about the origins of life on earth or the origins of the universe. That’s for the scientists to find out. What concerns the Buddha and what Buddhism teaches is how to live happy here and now. It will take more then ones life time to find out where we came from and how the universe was created.
Modern science has started finding clues on where we came from and how the universe came about. As you can see most of the great men of science who first started searching answers for such questions are no longer with us today.

Menj, are you still with me so far brother? If you can’t pickup what I’m putting down, maybe this will explain why you’re having such a hard time understanding Buddha and his teachings.

“This Doctrine is profound, hard to see, difficult to understand, calm, sublime, not within the spare of logic, subtle, to be understood by the wise. “- Majjhima Nakaya.

Last edited by Mullah Mo on Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:26 am; edited 9 times in total

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:49 pm Post subject:

Egyptian Kafir wrote:

hey menj...why do you hate buddhists that much while it has NOTHING against your cult ? i mean i can understand hating other 'abrahamic' religions and bashing them for a living because they closely relate to islam...but why this hatred and spite against buddhists? or is it just the itching to hate just for the sake of hatred that the holy teachings of some 7'th centurey sand dweller called Mo has sickned your mind with? it shouldnt surprise though when your "role model" is a caravan raider who beares a slogan of "my fortune is under the shade of my spear"......

EK, he's just trying to get back at me because I'm critical of Islam. He has no case against Buddhism and it's not about Buddhism, and he knows it. It's about me! Duh, he's giving me too much credit or what? Embarassed

It just shows how immature and mentally unevolved Menj is. He thinks by bashing Buddhism with the same fervor as I am critical of Islam, it will hurt me. But he forgot one thing, that no one here is bashing Islam, ISLAM IS DOING IT ITSELF, WE ARE ONLY EXPOSING IT.

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

adnan

Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 7:43 pm Post subject:

Menj,

Quote:

1. Encourages free sex and allows non-married couples to live together - equals to the heinous act of zina, practised by "couples" in Tibet but today is banned by the Communist government

That was your number 1 reason?
Whats wrong with unmarried couples living together, who care about safe sex?

Quote:

Menj, you dumbo,
Can you see the words "doom" and "will" ?
Ibn Warraq was talking about Punishments in HELL for rejecting faith.
Duh.. man you're really dumb if you think Ibn Warraq can make such mistakes.
A very famous writer, quoted and read everywhere, and if you think he'll quote that verse to describe punishments given to non-Muslims by Muslims, you're just plain dumb. Admit your mistake and correct your website now.

Again, he was talking about punishments ALLAH gives to non-Muslims for rejecting Islam, and not the punishments Muslims give to non-Muslims for rejecting Islam (which is a seperate issue, such as forcing non-Muslims to pay Jizya)

I see my presense in the other forums has gradually caused you to decrease your presense from those forums.
Perhaps you will exhibit the same behaviour in this forum as well. I am here now to track you down. In the meanwhile, I'll also be learning about Bhuddism and to see what it can offer.
Even though I strictly beleive that any "ism" (Muhammednism too, or Islam) is not for me. I have my own system of beleif and life and I dont beleive anyone knows how I should live my life, except me. Only I can know and decide.
I'm allergic to religions after leaving Islam.

Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'."

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:29 pm Post subject:

Ari wrote:

DREAM ON my dear!!! How can you teach others about Buddhism when you yourself have no clue what Buddhism is.

As it turns out, it is no longer a mere "dream":

Quote:

Hon, again being an idiot doesn't help your case.

I believe that it is stated in the Tripitaka that Buddhists are supposed to be tolerant of others and not criticise others, but hey, I digress.

And as you noted correctly, you stated: Meditation is in the heart of Buddhism and all authentic spiritual traditions. It is precisely this kind of practise and the asceticism that follows it which Islam rejects. It will be addressed in the "heart" of A Muslim Primer On Buddhism.

<snipping rest of irrelevant nonsense>

Best regards.

- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:35 pm Post subject:

Ari wrote:

EK, he's just trying to get back at me because I'm critical of Islam. He has no case against Buddhism and it's not about Buddhism, and he knows it. It's about me!

Wrong on both counts. I'm not trying to "get back" at you (though I have to admit that by the release of the book, I will be killing two birds with one stone), and there are plenty of cases to be raised where Buddhism is concerned from the Islamic view.

Quote:

Duh, he's giving me too much credit or what? Embarassed

I'll give you credit if you would give me suggestions about the cover Laughing

Quote:

But he forgot one thing, that no one here is bashing Islam, ISLAM IS DOING IT ITSELF, WE ARE ONLY EXPOSING IT.

Nonsense again, and you know it. The only reason YOU are bashing Islam is because you realise that Islam is currently the fastest-growing religion in the world and capable of wiping out polytheism and the vices with it, of which you are its strong proponent. There is no other reason. Other "motives" are derived from this basic desire to encourage the munkaar and forbid the makhruf.

Have a nice day.

- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:58 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I see my presense in the other forums has gradually caused you to decrease your presense from those forums.
Perhaps you will exhibit the same behaviour in this forum as well. I am here now to track you down. In the meanwhile, I'll also be learning about Bhuddism and to see what it can offer.
Even though I strictly beleive that any "ism"

But you have to remember this "ism" is just a label invented later on by men to refer to authentic teachings of the sages. Buddha never taught Buddhism, but Dharma (the laws of the universe, the way things are). Jesus never brought Christianity but universal teachings of love and forgiveness. No matter what you call Buddhism, it won't change the fact that the teachings are timeless, wise, rational and verifiable.

Quote:

(Muhammednism too, or Islam) is not for me. I have my own system of beleif and life and I dont beleive anyone knows how I should live my life, except me. Only I can know and decide.
I'm allergic to religions after leaving Islam.

I can understand that, definitely. Buddha himself teaches self-reliance...even his teachings should one day be relinquished to be totally free since it's only a raft that one doesn't need when one arrives at the shore, that's why it doesn't fall under "normal" religion the way it is commonly understood.

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 11:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Nonsense again, and you know it. The only reason YOU are bashing Islam is because you realise that Islam is currently the fastest-growing religion in the world

Been disputed many times, reality doesn't support it hon Razz

But if you mean fastest growing because of the people are too backward to practice family planning, than yes I agree. Wink

Quote:

and capable of wiping out polytheism and the vices with it, of which you are its strong proponent. There is no other reason. Other "motives" are derived from this basic desire to encourage the munkaar and forbid the makhruf.

Hon, read my signature. Do you understand now why Islam is the most hated? If not I'll tell you some more. Or what about this summary:

http://216.239.33.104/search?q=cache:r-5RG6C_58oJ:www.thekoran.com/download/Islamrule.doc+hadith+anyone+change+his+religion+kill+him&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:24 am Post subject:

Ari wrote:

Been disputed many times, reality doesn't support it hon Razz

You mean like how news agencies all around the world support it and your "disputation" simply does not dice? Very Happy

http://www.menj.net/fastest

Read it, and THEN take a rope and hang yourself Wink

Quote:

But if you mean fastest growing because of the people are too backward to practice family planning

Like how Buddhists are? Yes!

Quote:

Hon, read my signature.

Half-blind Mu'tazillite clerics don't impress me one, single bit. Now go and read my signature and see the real reason why you are to be opposed.

Have a nice day.

- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:24 am Post subject:

Quote:

Hon, read my signature.

Half-blind Mu'tazillite clerics don't impress me one, single bit. Now go and read my signature and see the real reason why you are to be opposed.

Enjoy!

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-beichman062003.asp

Quote:

In the Egyptian newspaper Al wafd, (April 27, 1996), Sheikh Muhammad Sayed al-Tantawi defended suicide bombings: "One who blows himself up among enemies, in order to defend his land, is considered a martyr." On April 4, 1996, according to the Egyptian paper Al Shaab, Sheik Tantawi said, "the youth of the Islamic resistance who blow themselves up in order to cause casualties, are considered the greatest of those who die, because they die as martyrs." Asked specifically to state the position of the sharia on someone who kills himself in an explosion, Sheik Tantawi said: "Those who say such action is haram [forbidden] must first ask themselves: what is the reason behind it? Why do youths feel compelled to sacrifice themselves

Isn't Sheikh Tantawi is the Mufti of Al-Azhar? His position/status is equivalent to the Dalai Lama for the Buddhists. Have you ever heard His Holiness say anything remote to that of your most pious and respected?

Want more? Wink

I've got a lot.

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

Last edited by Ari on Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:30 am Post subject:

What about this from the same link?

Quote:

the Imam Abdel-Samie Mahmoud Ibrahim Moussa, in his Friday, June 6, sermon at the Grand Mosque of Rome, asked for "Allah's help in the destruction of the homes and destruction of the enemies of Islam, for their annihilation, and the victory everywhere of the Nation of Islam."

Menj, through my experience, I rarely see a Muslim cleric/Imam who is not bigoted and fascist. Why is that?? Must be because Buddhism and all and sundry are bad right? Laughing

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:39 am Post subject:

Quote:

[quote="ultraman agul"]

Ari wrote:

Been disputed many times, reality doesn't support it hon Razz

You mean like how news agencies all around the world support it and your "disputation" simply does not dice? Very Happy

http://www.menj.net/fastest

From the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS, october 2001, based on interviews with 50,281 people), comparing the situation of 1990 to that of 2001.

Some of the most spectacular growth figures from Aris:

Selfdescribed Religious Identification of U.S. Adult Population:

# Wiccan: in 1990: 6,000 - in 2001: 134,000 (+ 2133 %)
# New Age: in 1990: 20,000 - in 2001: 68,000 (+ 240%)
# Hindu: in 1990: 227.000 - in 2001: 766,000 (+ 237 %)
# Baha'i: in 1990: 28,000 - in 2001: 84,000 (+ 200 %)
# Budhists: in 1990: 401,000 - in 2001: 1,082,000 (+169.8 %)
# Native American: in 1990: 47,000 - in 2001: 103,000 (+119.1 %)
# Muslims: in 1990: 527,000 - in 2001: 1,104,000 (+109.5%)

ARIS report: http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm.

You see Buddhism is even faster in its growth than Islam, and it's not due to high birth/migration rate I can tell you that.

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:39 am Post subject:

Ari wrote:

Enjoy!

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-beichman062003.asp

I did enjoy it, as it reveals the paranoia, xenophobia and Islamophobism of Western right-wing journalists today. Shameful, isn't it? Wink

Quote:

Isn't Sheikh Tantawi is the Mufti of Al-Azhar?

Yes, he is.

Quote:

His position/status is equivalent to the Dalai Lama for the Buddhists. Have you ever heard His Holiness say anything remote to that of your most pious and respected?

Sheikh Muhammad al-Tantawi's position is regarded as equivalent to Dalai Lama or the Pope, but since there is no clergy or priesthood in Islam, that is simply a perception.

As for where his quote is concerned, there are no problems with it. He is talking about the situation in a specific location in the Middle East, where Muslims are justified to defend themselves from the oppression of a certain Western-backed regime. "Suicide" bombing is not valid outside the turmoil areas where Muslims are being oppressed. See:

[url=menj.tripod.com/Pejuang_Bangsa/qaradawi.htm]Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Condemns Attacks Against Civillians: Forbidden in Islam[/url]

The opinion of Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi is as authoritative as the eminent position of Sheikh Muhammad al-Tantawi in the Muslim world.

Quote:

Want more? Wink

I've got a lot.

Perhaps you got them from thugs in the likes of "Ibn Warraq", "Anwar Shaik" or Sina? Wink

Sour grape. Do you really believe that I am not prepared to counter your materials? I have ten times the number of "materials" that you claim to possess.

Have a nice day.

- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:42 am Post subject:

Ari wrote:

Some of the most spectacular growth figures from Aris:

Selfdescribed Religious Identification of U.S. Adult Population:

# Wiccan: in 1990: 6,000 - in 2001: 134,000 (+ 2133 %)
# New Age: in 1990: 20,000 - in 2001: 68,000 (+ 240%)
# Hindu: in 1990: 227.000 - in 2001: 766,000 (+ 237 %)
# Baha'i: in 1990: 28,000 - in 2001: 84,000 (+ 200 %)
# Budhists: in 1990: 401,000 - in 2001: 1,082,000 (+169.8 %)
# Native American: in 1990: 47,000 - in 2001: 103,000 (+119.1 %)
# Muslims: in 1990: 527,000 - in 2001: 1,104,000 (+109.5%)

ARIS report: http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

And how reliable is this report of yours as compared to the material I painsakingly collected from prominent news agencies around the world at my website? Nada. Zilch. Nil. Zero.

Kappish? Wink

- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:06 am Post subject:

ultraman agul wrote:

Ari wrote:

And how reliable is this report of yours as compared to the material I painsakingly collected from prominent news agencies around the world at my website? Nada. Zilch. Nil. Zero.

Kappish? Wink

- MENJ

How is the claim in your link of being "fastest growing religion" legitimate when it's not supported by any evidence but hearsay from certain Muslim leaders??? You see the fastest growing religion in America is Wicca not Islam!! What do you mean by fastest growing???

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:13 am Post subject:

Quote:

Sheikh Muhammad al-Tantawi's position is regarded as equivalent to Dalai Lama or the Pope, but since there is no clergy or priesthood in Islam, that is simply a perception.

The point still holds, he supposedly sets an example for Muslims because he is a learned, pious and revered man. Answer me, have you ever heard the Dalai Lama advocating or supporting random killing against Chinese civilians? Menj, why are you so obstinate??? We have presented you proof after proof, but you still veil your heart from seeing the truth. Why?

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:16 am Post subject:

Ari wrote:

How is the claim in your link of being "fastest growing religion" legitimate when it's not supported by any evidence but hearsay from certain Muslim leaders???

Gee...I'm surprised that you believe that news agencies in the likes of CNN, BBC, Washington Post and their likes are "Muslim leaders", but hey, I digress Wink

BTW, whoever said about Islam being the "fastest-growing" religion in America (although I do have the report linked from the site that states as such)? Didn't I say (as the website too says) that Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the WORLD? Sheesh. The world out there is a much bigger place than the U.S. of A.

Have a nice day.
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:22 am Post subject:

Ari wrote:

The point still holds, he supposedly sets an example for Muslims because he is a learned, pious and revered man.

I wasn't trying to argue otherwise, just trying to make you see the point that in Islam, there are "perceived" positions upheld in stature to the positions of the clergy, but Muslims do not take orders from Sheikh Al-Tantawi.

As for where the Dalai Lama is concerned, I have not been following any of his speeches, so even if I want to comment about his speeches, I couldn't. Besides, why should I bother commenting about a figure who is neither influential or authoritative in my life??

- MENJ
_________________
Allah matlamat kami, Al-Quran perlembagaan kami, ar-Rasul ikutan kami, penentang Islam musuh kami, jihad jalan kami dan berkorban pada jalan-Nya adalah setinggi-tinggi pengorbanan

Ari

Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:28 am Post subject:

ultraman agul wrote:

Ari wrote:

How is the claim in your link of being "fastest growing religion" legitimate when it's not supported by any evidence but hearsay from certain Muslim leaders???

Gee...I'm surprised that you believe that news agencies in the likes of CNN, BBC, Washington Post and their likes are "Muslim leaders", but hey, I digress Wink

They were only repeating what the Muslim leaders said without any data to back them up. Besides, since when Menj have you been taking "Zionist controlled western media" without a bucket of salt??? O lemme guess, when it says good things about islam, right??

Quote:

You must understand the term "fastest growing" is really meaningless. Fastest because of what??? Based on what??? Relative or Absolute term?? You see, relatively, the Wiccans grow the fastest because their number is small to begin with, but for Muslims to grow from 1 billion to 1.3 billion isn't really big a deal since their number is already high and considering that they are third world people who breed like rabbits??? So what does it prove??? NOTHING. So what are you bragging about??? Rolling Eyes

Another question is are they really Muslims because we heard time and again from you folks that there are a lot of Muslims who are not true Muslims. So which one is correct???

Don't use so blatantly selective reasoning Menj, we are not stupid.

Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein

ultraman agul

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1302
Location: Dar al-Islam

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:40 am Post subject:

Ari wrote:

They were only repeating what the Muslim leaders said without any data to back them up.

And your evidence for this "repetition" is...?

Quote:

Besides, since when Menj have you been taking "Zionist controlled western media" without a bucket of salt??? O lemme guess, when it says good things about islam, right??

It is not hard to recognise a Zionist-controlled media. I have already developed an acute sense of what they are whenever they apper around me. It comes with practise, my dear - and don't believe everything you read Laughing

Quote:

You must understand the term "fastest growing" is really meaningless.

Now suddenly she does an about-turn and make a cop-out by calling the term "fastest-growing" as "meaningless". Earlier (and even below), she was tooting her horn by claiming that the Wiccans are "fastest growing".

BTW, I need to remind you that in the West, Muslims number about 500,000 (if my memory serves me correctly) in the 1970s. Today, it has reached millions. That's a pretty fast growth. Contrast that to Buddhism, who had a few hundred years' headstart compared to Islam, and yet where the number only reaches 330 million ALL OVER THE WORLD today.

The contrast? Big contrast, indeed!

Don't act as though you are "smart", and Muslims are generally "stupid". Or have you forgotten that yours truly here is "educated", as per your admission? Laughing

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