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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:59 am Post subject: I'LL BET THE SAUDI'S ARE PAYING FOR IT. |
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i WILL bet that when it all gets sorted out and settles down that the Saudi's are paying for the terror attacks against the US and British forces in Iraq.
Any one want to take that bet.? _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Middle East
Intelligence Bulletin
Saudi Arabia's Links to Terrorism
A briefing by Laurent Murawiec
Once upon a time there was a reason for friendship between the United States and Saudi Arabia. After World War II, the kingdom's vast oil reserves and willingness to use its production capacity to ensure moderate and stable world oil prices were rightly judged to be vital to American national security. In return for these strategic assets, the United States pledged to protect the kingdom's oil supplies and obstruct those who would seek to control them, particularly the Soviet Union. Thus, when FDR met with King Abdulaziz bin Saud in 1945, a marriage of convenience was born. But the original reasons for this marriage of convenience have long since faded away. It is time for a divorce.
Cracks in the Marriage
The first indications that the foundations of this partnership were eroding came in the early 1970s, when the Saudis took the lead in establishing the OPEC oil cartel. Saudi Arabia was among the three leading instigators of the 1973 embargo on oil shipments to the United States and was the principal beneficiary of it. Rather than standing by the United States at a time when tensions between American and Soviet naval vessels in the Mediterranean were at an all-time high, the Saudis cut off oil supplies to the U.S. navy in October of that year.
The rationale for this partnership completely unraveled following the 1979 establishment of an Islamic Republic in Tehran, when Iranian clerics challenged the religious credentials of the Saudi monarchy. Ayatollah Khomeini condemned Saudi royals as corrupt, venal and decidedly unIslamic. That they should be challenged at all was bad enough - that they should be challenged by Shiites, regarded as a heretical sect by most Sunni Muslims, was intolerable.
The Saudi Royal Family
Since it established control over the Arabia peninsula in the 1920s, the Saudi royal family has claimed to be the guardian of Islam's two holiest sites – Mecca and Medina – and prides itself on upholding the "purest" form of Islam, known as Wahhabism. Wahhabism dates back to a pact between eighteenth century Arabian zealot Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and a desert brigand named Ibn Saud, which enshrined an alliance through marriage that produced the Saudi royal family. Until the late 1970s, Wahhabism was an extreme sect that happened to rule Saudi Arabia, but did not bother too many outside the kingdom's borders. To counter the proliferation of anti-Saudi Iranian propaganda, however, the Saudis decided to spread Wahhabi teachings abroad. The royal family's oil wealth poured into countries throughout the Islamic world, from West Africa to Indonesia, fueling a proliferation of madrasas (religious schools) that indoctrinated a new generation of Islamists. Even in the United States, Muslim children studied Islamic primers shipped from Wahhabi institutes in Saudi Arabia.
The Monster they Created
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979 provided the kingdom with an ideal opportunity to sponsor a bona fide holy war that would showcase Wahhabi ideals and quiet Iranian-inspired Islamist opposition to the monarchy. Madrasas around the Arab and Islamic world produced shock troops for this jihad. After the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan, these "Arab Afghans" began trickling home and looked for other jihads. The Saudis had created a monster; to be sure they did not wreak havoc inside the kingdom, bin Laden and other Saudi Islamists were encouraged to wage holy war abroad. When the Clinton administration cornered Osama bin Laden in the Sudan in 1998, the Saudis refused to allow his extradition back home, where he could be neutralized. Instead, the Saudi intelligence chief – Prince Turki – reportedly offered bin Laden $200 million to go to Afghanistan, on the condition that he not target the Saudi royal family. Bin Laden honored his promise – there has not been a single attack by Al-Qaeda against the Al-Saud family. Inside the kingdom, Al-Qaeda has only operated against the Americans and the British. Over time, the understanding became that bin Laden would leave the Saudis alone only if they allowed the network of charities funding Al-Qaeda to operate unhindered. On the day after the September 11 attacks, the first thing Riyadh did was evacuate two dozen members of the bin Laden family residing in the US on the private jet of its ambassador, Prince Bandar.
Conclusion
With the end of the Cold War, the most persuasive reasons for maintaining the marriage of convenience with Saudi Arabia disappeared. With the September 11 attacks, the returns on this partnership went from zero to negative. The Saudis have become the friends of our enemies and the enemies of our friends. Bin Laden is an extension of Saudi foreign policy. To be fair, the Saudis don't quite know how to deal with the monster they've created – so far they've avoided tough choices. As long as the benefits of sponsoring terror are enormous and the costs of sponsoring terror are negligible, they will not take decisive action. The US must therefore make the costs of funding Wahhabi extremism terribly high, while making the benefits slim pickings. |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:44 am Post subject: Re: I'LL BET THE SAUDI'S ARE PAYING FOR IT. |
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| bush badee wrote: | i WILL bet that when it all gets sorted out and settles down that the Saudi's are paying for the terror attacks against the US and British forces in Iraq.
Any one want to take that bet.? |
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Where else would the money come from?
It is to the Saudis advantage to keep turmoil in the Middle East.
The Saudis want the U.S. to leave Iraq so they can "get us over a barrel" again. Our access to Iraqi oil is disturbing to them. |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | . Ayatollah Khomeini condemned Saudi royals as corrupt, venal and decidedly unIslamic. |
See the Khomeini wasn't all bad or wrong
What else is disturbing them is the possible access to Alaskan oil.
But you are correct, they are probly the ones that are stirring up unrest in Iraq to drive us outm but I think they do not understand Bush.
He will destroy them first.
I do not care for Bush, but he is the first one to show some balls in the mid east and call a freedom fighter a terrorist.
Iraq and Sadam were key figures in the Israel war.
It was he that was funding the homicide bombers with new homes, college educations for their siblings and $25,000 .
You see, Israel spends a couple weeks shooting rockets up the asses of some of the Hamas leaders and all of a sudden, when the wheels are getting knocked off and are peeing in their pants they are ready for a truce . You know the kind that the Prophet took to rearm.
But Arafat will not let them have it.
I will try to post the wire storys about his Tanzem killing some people today.
It's like the Mafia, when they kill you, it nothing personal, it Business.
Terrorism is Arafats business and his family has been in that business for a long time. Look at his uncle, Hitler's buddy the grand mufti of Jerusalem. (The grand part he added himself.) there normally are no Grand Muftis. _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| As long as the Saudis are in power, the war on terrorism will never be won. |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Your right antonia and their day of reconing is comming.
I dug up what I had written down about my son.
The only place I can think to post it is under Judiasm.
If you will look there in a couple of minutes it should appear, _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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even better look under misc topics _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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DAY OF INFAMY 2001
'Explosive' 9-11 report details
Saudi financing of terrorists
Analysis reveals U.S. officials warned of al-Qaida plot to hijack aircraft, launch 'spectacular attack'
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
Top Bush administration officials were warned in the summer of 2001 that Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist network was plotting to hijack aircraft and launch a "spectacular attack," according to the final report of a congressional investigation into Sept. 11, reports the Miami Herald.
The paper quotes former Rep. Tim Roemer, D-Ind., as saying the long-awaited report will be ''highly explosive'' when it becomes public in the next two weeks.
Roemer served on the House Intelligence Committee, is also a member of the independent National Commission on Terrorist Attacks and has read the congressional report. He declined to give details of the 800-page tome, which is the byproduct of nine public hearings and 13 closed sessions held by the joint House-Senate investigation.
''It's compelling and galvanizing and will refocus the public's attention on Sept. 11,'' Roemer told the Herald. "Certain mistakes, errors and gaps in the system will be made clear.''
Citing an anonymous source familiar with the investigation, the Herald reports two ''sensitive areas'' of the analysis include a coherent narrative of intelligence warnings prior to 9-11 that were ignored or not shared with other agencies and new information on ties between the Saudi royal family, government officials and terrorists.
"There's little doubt that much of the funding of terrorist groups – whether intentional or unintentional – is coming from Saudi sources,'' the Herald quotes John Lehman, a member of the independent commission, as saying at a hearing yesterday.
WorldNetDaily reported in February that, according to a report prepared for the United Nations, Saudi Arabia has transferred $500 million to al-Qaida over the past decade and continues to finance the terror network in the wake of Sept. 11.
Middle East Newsline reports the findings of a French investigator asked to study the issue by Colombia, which occupied the presidency of the U.N. Security Council at the time, indicated Saudi dollars still represented the most important source of financing for al-Qaida.
The 34-page U.N. report also found that, despite pressure from the United States and adamant claims to the contrary, Riyad has failed to turn off the spigot.
"One must question the real ability and willingness of the kingdom to exercise any control over the use of religious money in and outside of the country," investigator Jean-Charles Brisard concluded.
Brisard was the expert on al-Qaida in France's intelligence service. He has worked as a consultant over the last year. His clients include the relatives of victims of the 9-11 attacks in New York and Washington who filed a $1 trillion lawsuit in April 2002 against the Saudi royal family, other wealthy Saudis and Saudi charities.
As WorldNetDaily reported, the Saudis mounted an aggressive public relations campaign to deflect accusations amid the revelation that donations from Princess Haifa bint Faisal ended up in the hands of Sept. 11 hijackers.
Payments reportedly totalling nearly $150,000 were made by Princess Haifa, the daughter of the late King Faisal and wife of Saudi envoy Prince Bandar, to a woman who passed on the checks to the wife of a man thought to be the front man for the Sept. 11 terrorists, and then ultimately wound up in the hands of two al-Qaida operatives who later became hijackers.
The congressional report is said to include the revelation that the Federal Bureau of Investigation may have mishandled the probe into how two of the Sept. 11 hijackers received aid from Saudi groups and individuals.
WorldNetDaily also reported that federal authorities have been investigating whether the Saar Foundation, which is connected to the Saudi royal family, and other Saudi groups have been laundering money to Islamic terrorist groups through U.S.-based Muslim charities. Some 80 such charities, many of them headquartered in the Washington area, received federal subpoenas for financial records.
Although the congressional report was completed in December, battles with the Bush administration over what secret data to declassify has held up its release to the public. Eleanor Hill, the staff director with the congressional investigation told the Herald the disclosure issue had been resolved and the document is now headed to the printer.
Hill said the report will contain redacted text to show where information was withheld.
Co-chairman of the congressional investigation, Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., who is also running for president, has railed against the administration for stonewalling over the declassification issue.
Meanwhile, the independent commission similarly complained Tuesday that federal agencies, especially the Pentagon and the Justice Department, were not cooperating with its requests for documents and testimony.
The panel's chairman, Tom Kean, the former Republican governor of New Jersey, also took issue with the presence of administration "minders" at interviews of intelligence officials, calling it "intimidation."
In addition to examining intelligence mistakes and oversights, the 10-member bipartisan commission is also exploring immigration, airline safety and congressional oversight of counterterrorism.
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Egyptian Kafir

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 474
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: I'LL BET THE SAUDI'S ARE PAYING FOR IT. |
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| bush badee wrote: | i WILL bet that when it all gets sorted out and settles down that the Saudi's are paying for the terror attacks against the US and British forces in Iraq.
Any one want to take that bet.? |
you just came to this conclusion now? _________________ “The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.” ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Actually if you read my post you will see that I have not come to that conclusion quite yet.
I would bet on it though.
By trade I am a research scientist and with out the actual cancelled checks in front of me, I will not reach a conclusion.
But I would give you odds on it. _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Still Financing Terror
The Saudi Government says it has cracked down on Islamic extremist. But new allegations suggest Riyadh has increased its support for Hamas.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/946237.asp?0cv=CA00 |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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antonia if you believe the Saudi's have cracked down on foreign terror, I have a bridge in Brookly I would like to sell you.
 _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Unknown 91
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 109
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Dear Bush Badee
I wonder could you answer some questions that i have.
1. What is your view on the documented links between Saudi terror and American complicity (Specifically the Bushes) ?
2.What is you view on the concrete links between Wahabbi exported terror and the CIA?
3. What is your view on the School of the Americas?
4. What is your view on Zionism?
5. What is your view on the CIA? |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 1. What is your view on the documented links between Saudi terror and American complicity (Specifically the Bushes) ?
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I know of no links between any American complicity and what you do not specify.
I do not even know of any complicity between the Sauds and the Bush's but would not be supprised to know that they existed, but I would doubt that the Bush's are linked to terror.
| Quote: | 2.What is you view on the concrete links between Wahabbi exported terror and the CIA?
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Perhaps you can tell me what the concrete links you refer to are. The only links between the cia and terror groups are in Afganistan when they were fighting Russia.
There are new links, which are right there on the front pages for all to see and out in the open where WE have the cia helping the arab terrorists in Israel train to become PLO terrorists but supposedly that is so they can become police men. But I do not doubt for a momment that they will use the knowledge they gain for Muslim terror purposess.
| Quote: | 3. What is your view on the School of the Americas?
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Never heard of it and I follow a lot of news information.
| Quote: | 4. What is your view on Zionism?
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Now that I know quite a bit about.
Probly more than you or any one else here.
Zionism comes from the bible.
Zion is mentioned many times in the bible.
Basically Zion referes to the Jewish people as a group and the Jewish lands.
It in general it refers to the longing of the Jewish people to return from exile to their native country which was conquered and taken over by many invaders over the years.
Perhaps the most recent being the invasion by Arabs from Arabia and from the surrounding countries that came looking for work on the pipline, in 1922 and the Zionist reclaimation of Israel and the attempt by them to turn it back to the bibicle land of milk and honey.
The land was destroyed by the Arab invasion which did not keep the irrigation ditches up and the Arab economy based on goats which pull the grass and plants up by the roots and thusly destroy all vegitation. In 1939 the US Dept of Argraculture put out a paper on desertification where this process as it occured in Israel and other countries is described.
These incoming arabs in 1922 and on came into Israel and settled by a 10 to 1 ration around zionist settlements because that is where the Jobs were.
The Arabs along with the Jews drained the swamps and cleared the land and rebuilt the irrigation systems and make the lands bloom again.
| Quote: | 5. What is your view on the CIA?
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I have mixed feelings about the CIA.
They are a neccessary part of goverment and practically all major Goverments have their own versions of the CIA.
OUrs seems to be run by the State dept in good part and that is not really legal with in our framework of goverment.
I think it is fine when the CIA gathers intellegence on possible dangers to this country from foreign goverments but I dislike their rouge forays into foreign diplomacy at the behest of the State Dept, which thinks it is a goverment unto itself and those which the CIA thinks up for itself in it's misguided attempts to protect this country.
We try to leave it to the politicians to think out our foreign policy for a few reasons.
1 They are slow and plodding and take a long time to make descisions and are not so apt to stick their noses where it does not belong.
2 they are conservitive and are balanced.
They have those who want to go gung ho and they have an opposing party to balance off those who want to be gung ho. _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Unknown 91
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 109
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I know of no links between any American complicity and what you do not specify. I do not even know of any complicity between the Sauds and the Bush's but would not be supprised to know that they existed, but I would doubt that the Bush's are linked to terror. |
American Complicity towards Saudi inspired terror has, in the past and today, been well documented. if you read some of my previous posts you would have known. i will reiterate some basic points concerning American Complicity towards Saudi inspired terror here.
The World Association of Muslim Youth (WAMY), founded in 1972 in a Saudi effort to prevent the "corrupting" ideas of the western world influencing young Muslims, has documented links to terror.
Both Indian, Philippine and Pakisatni goverments have cited WAMY's funding of terrorist groups and militant Islamists (in Kashmir and the Philippines, respectively) and subsequently banned them. Many other countries have banned Wamy.
Osama bin Laden's brother, Abdullah bin Laden, is WAMY's treasurer and head of its North American Section.
The report, based on a secret FBI document, numbered 199I WF213589 and emanating out of the FBI’s Washington field office, alleged that the cynicism of the American establishment and "connections between the CIA and Saudi Arabia and the Bush men and bin Ladens" may have been the real cause of the deaths of thousands in the World Trade Centre attacks.
199 is FBI code for case type. 9 would be murder. 65 would be espionage. 199 means national security
The FBI was told to "back off", according to the report, investigating one of Osama bin Laden’s brothers, Abdullah, who as we have seen is WAMY's treasurer. Amazingly, at one point four of the 9/11 suspects actually lived a short distance down the street from the WAMY office.
The FBI wanted to learn more about Abdullah bin Laden, "because of his relationship with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth [WAMY] - which as we have seen is a suspected terrorist organization."
Abdullah was the US director of WAMY and lived with his brother Omar at in Falls Church, a town just outside Washington. The coding on the document, marked secret, indicate the case involved espionage, murder, and national security. WAMY has their offices at 5613 Leesburg Pike.
Remarkably, four of the 9/11 hijackers later are listed as having lived at 5913 Leesburg Pike, at the same time the two bin Laden brothers were there.
Immediately after 9/11, 11 members of the bin Laden were allowed to leave the US on a privately chartered flight while all air traffic was supposedly still grounded by the FAA. FBI agents had wanted to question several of them, in particular Abdullah bin Laden. (After 9/11, the Treasury Department stubbornly refused to freeze the assets of WAMY, insisting that it was merely a "charity" organization).
Interestingly, John P. O'Neill was until two weeks before the Deputy Director at the FBI. He quit complaining bitterly that the US State Department - and behind it the oil lobby who make up President Bush's entourage - blocked his attempts to prove bin Laden's guilt. O'Neill quoting as saying "The main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were US oil corporate interests, and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it." He also charged that shortly after assuming office the Bush administration slowed down FBI investigations of Al Qaeda and terrorism in Afghanistan in order to do a deal with the Taliban for an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. This story was reported on CNN, 1/8/02, CNN, 1/9/02
Bush Badee, did you know that In 1994, a Saudi diplomat defected to the United States with 14,000 pages of documents from the kingdom's sealed file cabinets. This mother lode of intelligence included evidence of plans for the assassination of Saudi opponents living in the West and, tantalizingly, details of the $7 billion the Saudis gave to Saddam Hussein for his nuclear program -- the first attempt to build an Islamic Bomb.
However US intelligece agencies refused to even look at this info.
Bush Badee, did you know that in 1996 the Khobar Towers were bombed killing a number of US service men. The Canadians caught and extradited to America one of the Khobar Towers attackers. In 1999, Vernon Jordan's law firm stepped in and -- poof! -- the killer was shipped back to Saudi Arabia before he could reveal all he knew about Al Qaeda (valuable) and the Saudis (embarrassing).
Other info vis-vis American duplicity and Saudi terror exist.
An attempt to blow up the WTC fails. 6 people are killed in the misfired blast. The New York Times later reports a curious story about an undercover agent who ends up being the key government witness in the trial against the bomber. This agent, Emad Salem, says that the FBI knew about the attack beforehand and told him they would thwart it by substituting a harmless powder for the explosives. However, this plan was called off by an FBI supervisor, and the bombing was not stopped. [New York Times, 10/28/93]
Ramzi Yousef, is found guilty of masterminding the plot, [Congressional Hearings, 2/24/98] yet the actual "perpetrators" appear to be innocent "scapegoats". The FBI's own senior explosives expert, testifies that the FBI concocted misleading scientific reports and pressured two of their scientists to perjure their testimony. The FBI also intimidated defense attorneys, and breached court orders in an attempt to prejudice the jury.
The US wants to keep the pro-American Saudi royal family in control of the world's biggest oil spigot, even at the price of turning a blind eye to any terrorist connection .
Bush administration ignored the issue of terrorism from the moment it assumed office:
1.They ignored the final report of the Hart-Rudman commission, the Road Map for National Security: Imperative for Change, that was issued on January 31, 2001
2. They blocked Senate hearings on the Hart-Rudman commission's report, scheduled for the week of May 7, 2001, by announcing a brand new commission led by Vice President Dick Cheney - which never met before 911
3. They ignored repeated requests from the Hart-Rudman commission from January 2001 to September 6, 2001, when National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice said she would "pass on" their concerns
4.They ignored repeated requests from Senator Dianne Feinstein to restructure US counter-terrorism and homeland defense programs, starting in July 2001 and continuing through September 10, 2001, when Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff told Feinstein to wait 6 months
They ignored the report of the Gore Commission on Aviation Safety and Security
The Bush administration changed Bill Clinton's policy towards Afghanistant to appease Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and their Saudi backers to promote the interests of oil companies, putting profits for campaign contributors ahead of fighting terrorism:
1. They prevented FBI terrorism experts from investigating Saudi Arabian ties to Al Qaeda before 911, leading to the resignation of FBI Deputy Director John O'Neill only two weeks before 911
2. They ordered the Naval Strike Force - which President Clinton deployed near Afghanistan on 24-hour alert in order to strike Osama Bin Laden - to "stand down" before 911
3.They gave $43 million to the Taliban in April 2001
Furthermore the Jihadis who attacked America were trained in America.
A series of articles suggest that at least 7 of the 9/11 hijackers had training in US military bases. [ New York Times, 9/15/01, Newsweek, 9/15/01]
Jihadis trainied in the heart of America? Yes you read that right.
Michael Springmann, who headed up the US State Department's visa bureau in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, during the Reagan-Bush Sr. years. "In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by high-level State Department officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. These were, essentially, people who had no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to their own country. I complained bitterly at the time there."
"What I was protesting", Springmann complained, "was, in reality, an effort to bring recruits, rounded up by Osama bin Laden, to the United States for terrorist training by the CIA. They would then be returned to Afghanistan to fight against the then-Soviets."
what we are witnessing tody, in the parlance of spook-world, this is called "blowback." Bin Laden and his bloody brethren were created in America's own Frankenstein factory.
It would not do for the current president nor agency officials to dig back to find that some of the terrorists we are hunting today were trained and armed by the Reagan-Bush administration. And that's one of the problems for agents seeking to investigate groups like WAMY, or Abdullah bin Laden. WAMY literature that talks about that "compassionate young man Osama bin Laden" is likely to have been disseminated, if not written, by our the US own government.
For example, the U.S, through USAID and the University of Nebraska, spends millions of dollars developing... then printing textbooks for Afghan schoolchildren in 1984. The textbooks are filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings. The Taliban were still using them in 2001. [Washington Post, 3/23/02]
Agin Bush Badee did you know that in 1998 and 2000 - Former President George H.W. Bush travels to Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the U.S. While there he meets privately with the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family. [Source: Wall Street Journal, Sept. 27, 2001
| Quote: | | Perhaps you can tell me what the concrete links you refer to are. The only links between the cia and terror groups are in Afganistan when they were fighting Russia. |
When the Taliban took power, State Department spokesperson Glyn Davies said that he saw "nothing objectionable" in the Taliban’s plans to impose strict Islamic law, and Senator Hank Brown, chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on the Near East and South Asia, welcomed the new regime: "The good part of what has happened is that one of the factions at last seems capable of developing a new government in Afghanistan."
"The Taliban will probably develop like the Saudis. There will be Aramco [the consortium of oil companies that controlled Saudi oil], pipelines, an emir, no parliament and lots of Sharia law. We can live with that," said another U.S. diplomat in 1997
You should not be surprised at this linkage. The creation of Islamist terrorist organizations by the CIA has been a key part of U.S. policy, first in attacking the Soviet Union, and since then in an on-going war against Russia and the countries of the former Soviet Union and against Yugoslavia.
The CIA supported an Islamic funadamentalist faction, led by Alijah Izetbegovic, in the Yugoslav civil war. Izetbegovic is a Muslim fundamentalist who began his political career supporting the Nazis during World War II.
Mainstream news accounts of bin Laden's links to terrorist organizations are numerous (such as the Albanian terrorists who attacked Kosovo and Macedonia and Bosnian terrorists). These links are documented *after* bin Laden supposedly broke with the CIA. The terrorists organizations were and are sponsored by the US and NATO.
Other secret alliance's between the CIA radical Islamist groups from the Middle East designed to assist the Bosnian Muslims - some of the same groups that the Pentagon is now fighting in "the war against terrorism"- are evident.
After supposedly breaking with the Saudi rulers - though I doubt the story - bin Laden went to Sudan. Soon the Sudanese tired of his presence. In March, 1996, Maj. Gen. Elfatih Erwa, then the Sudanese Minister of State for Defense, offered to extradite bin Laden either to Saudi Arabia or the United States.
Why was extradition refused to the US? Was Bin Laden a U.S. asset - either part of the CIA, or someone whom the CIA used?
The Washington Post hinted at an answer to this question when they wrote: "And there were the beginnings of a debate, intensified lately, on whether the United States wanted to indict and try bin Laden or to treat him as a combatant in an underground war." ('The Washington Post,' 3 October 2001)
By the way, two years later, the U.S. military bombed Sudan, supposedly because the Sudanese government was allied with bin Laden. Doesn't it sound like bin Laden's real friends were not in Sudan, as President Clinton tried to convince the world when he sent cruise missiles to destroy a Sudanese medicine factory, but in the U.S. State Department?
There is so much about bin Laden that suggests he is still in some way associated with the CIA:
* His activities in Afghanistan prior to 1990;
* His activities on the "U.S. side" in Bosnia, Kosovo and, quite recently, in Macedonia; (2)
* The refusal of the Clinton administration to allow Sudan to extradite him in 1996;
* The very convincing arguments by Congressman Rohrabacher that the Clinton administration sabotaged efforts to apprehend him http://emperors-clothes.com/misc/rohr.htm
On Oct. 31 2001 many newspapers in Europe (of all political persuasions)dropped a bombshell. While in a Dubai hospital in July 2001, receiving treatment for a chronic kidney infection last July, Osama bin Laden apparently met with a top CIA official -- presumably the chief of station. The meeting, held in bin Laden's private suite, took place at the American hospital in Dubai at a time when he was a wanted fugitive for the bombings of two U.S. embassies and last year's attack on the USS Cole. Bin Laden was eligible for execution according to a 2000 intelligence finding issued by President Bill Clinton before leaving office in January. Yet on July 14, 2001 he was allowed to leave Dubai on a private jet, and there were no Navy fighters waiting to force him down.
THE CIA ALSO HAS LINKS TO OTHER NON-ISLAMIC TERROR GROUPS.
| Quote: | | Never heard of it (School of the Americas SOA)and I follow a lot of news information. |
The SOA is America's Terrorist Training Camp. Since 1946 SOA has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers and policemen. Among its graduates are many of the continent's most notorious torturers, mass murderers, dictators and state terrorists. As hundreds of pages of documentation compiled by the pressure group SOA Watch shows, Latin America has been ripped apart by its alumni.
In June 2001r, Colonel Byron Lima Estrada, once a student at the school, was convicted in Guatemala City of murdering Bishop Juan Gerardi in 1998. Gerardi was killed because he had helped to write a report on the atrocities committed by Guatemala's "D-2", the military intelligence agency run by Lima Estrada with the help of two other SOA graduates. D-2 coordinated the "anti-insurgency" campaign which obliterated 448 Mayan Indian villages, and murdered tens of thousands of their people. Forty per cent of the cabinet ministers who served the genocidal regimes of Lucas Garcia, Rios Montt, and Mejia Victores studied at SOA.
In 1993, the United Nations Truth Commission on El Salvador named the army officers who had committed the worst atrocities of the civil war. Two-thirds of them had been trained at the School of the Americas. Among them were Roberto D'Aubuisson, the leader of El Salvador's death squads; the men who killed Archbishop Oscar Romero; and 19 of the 26 soldiers who murdered the Jesuit priests in 1989. In Chile, the school's graduates ran both Augusto Pinochet's secret police and his three principal concentration camps. One of them helped to murder Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffit in Washington DC in 1976.
Argentina's dictators Roberto Viola and Leopoldo Galtieri, Panama's Manuel Noriega and Omar Torrijos, Peru's Juan Velasco Alvarado and Ecuador's Guillermo Rodriguez all benefitted from the school's instruction. So did the leader of the Grupo Colina death squad in Fujimori's Peru; four of the five officers who ran the infamous Battalion 3-16 in Honduras (which controlled the death squads there in the 1980s) and the commander responsible for the 1994 Ocosingo massacre in Mexico.
What is your view on Zionism Now that I know quite a bit about.? Probly more than you or any one else hereZionism comes from the bible.
why should in take an instruction from a book that is patently ridiculous and illogical.
Zion is mentioned many times in the bible.
I don't doubt that, but what relevance does it have to the year 2003.
Basically Zion referes to the Jewish people as a group and the Jewish lands.
Ok, again i don't doubt that.
Perhaps the most recent being the invasion by Arabs from Arabia and from the surrounding countries that came looking for work on the pipline, in 1922 and the Zionist reclaimation of Israel and the attempt by them to turn it back to the bibicle land of milk and honey.
Before the Hebrews first migrated to what we now know as Israel/Palestine around 1800 B.C., the land of Canaan was occupied by Canaanites.Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan. So the Canaanites are the real occupants of the 'holy land'., not the hebrews who invaded in 1800 BC.
"Recent archeological digs have provided evidence that Jerusalem was a big and fortified city already in 1800 BCE...Findings show that the sophisticated water system heretofor attributed to the conquering Israelites pre-dated them by eight centuries and was even more sophisticated than imagined...Dr. Ronny Reich, who directed the excavation along with Eli Shuikrun, said the entire system was built as a single complex by Canaanites in the Middle Bronze Period, around 1800 BCE." The Jewish Bulletin, July 31st, 1998.
"The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David's conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule." Illene Beatty, "Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan."
The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods in ancient Palestine. What gives Jews the sole right to this land. A book that is a pack of lies, distortions, logical contradictions- you get the picture.
The land was destroyed by the Arab invasion which did not keep the irrigation ditches up and the Arab economy based on goats which pull the grass and plants up by the roots and thusly destroy all vegitation.
Wasn't Palestine a wasteland before the Jews started immigrating there?
If this is the case why were 80 per cent of Arabs engaged in Agriculture in 1938.
"Britain's high commissioner for Palestine, John Chancellor, recommended total suspension of Jewish immigration and land purchase to protect Arab agriculture. He said 'all cultivable land was occupied; that no cultivable land now in possession of the indigenous population could be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators'...The Colonial Office rejected the recommendation." John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."
| Quote: | These incoming arabs in 1922 came into Israel and settled by a 10 to 1 ration around zionist settlements because that is where the Jobs were.
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No this is a lie. In 1917, there were 56,000 Jews in Palestine and 644,000 Palestinian Arabs.
There were over one thousand villages in Palestine at the turn of the 19th century. Jerusalem, Haifa, Gaza, Jaffa, Nablus, Acre, Jericho, Ramle, Hebron and Nazareth were flourishing towns. The hills were painstakingly terraced. Irrigation ditches crisscrossed the land. The citrus orchards, olive groves and grains of Palestine were known throughout the world. Trade, crafts, textiles, cottage industry and agricultural production abounded.
Eighteenth and 19th century travellers' accounts are replete with the data, as were the scholarly quarterly reports published in the 19th century by the British Palestine Exploration Fund.
Arabs were engaged in working the land. As my above post cites.
An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907...called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of Jewish Settlment
activity...Like Ahad-Ha'am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession...
How did Arabs get this land? Beacuse they were their before the Jews.
In fact Bush Badee you are totally wrong on Zionism. The objective of Zionism has never been merely to colonize Palestine - as was the goal of classical colonial and imperial movements during the 19th and 20th centuries.What distinguishes Zionism from other colonial movements is the relationship between the settlers and the people to be conquered. The avowed purpose of the Zionist movement was not merely to exploit the Palestinian people but to disperse and dispossess them.
Zionism began as a Jewish political movement in 19th century Europe. Its premise was that as long as Jews lived in the countries of other nationalities, they would face persecution.
The solution for the Jews’ plight was therefore their own national homeland, a Jewish state. For the Zionists this new state had to be located in Palestine, the contemporary name of the ancient land of Israel.
Zionism was a secular movement, not a religious one. Orthodox religious leaders opposed it because they thought it sought to usurp the role of the God-ordained messiah Judaism believed would lead the Jews back to Zion
Zionism is a response of a stateless people, the problem is that the state they wanted was already full with Arabs (both muslims and christians).
In 1917, there were 56,000 Jews in Palestine and 644,000 Palestinian Arabs. In 1922, there were 83,794 Jews and 663,000 Arabs. In 1931, there were 174,616 Jews and 750,000 Arabs.
The objective of Zionism has never been merely to colonize Palestine - as was the goal of classical colonial and imperial movements during the 19th and 20th centuries. The design of European colonialism in Africa and Asia was, essentially, to exploit indigenous peoples as cheap labor while extracting natural resources for exorbitant profit.
What distinguishes Zionism from other colonial movements is the relationship between the settlers and the people to be conquered. The avowed purpose of the Zionist movement was not merely to exploit the Palestinian people but to disperse and dispossess them. The intent was to replace the indigenous population with a new settler community, to eradicate the farmers, artisans and town-dwellers of Palestine and substitute an entirely new workforce composed of the settler population.
Indeed most jews ignored the Zionist claim in the early 20th Ceentury.
Most Russian Jews ignored their appeal and fled to Europe and the United States. By 1900, almost a million Jews had settled in the United States alone."
| Quote: | What is your view on the CIA? have mixed feelings about the CIA.
They are a neccessary part of goverment and practically all major Goverments have their own versions of the CIA.OUrs seems to be run by the State dept in good part |
The CIA is a Facist, criminal terror org.
Please read this thread, and post what you think.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6057 |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | httpZion is mentioned many times in the bible.
I don't doubt that, but what relevance does it have to the year 2003.
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The meaning of the word has not changed from then.
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Palestine around 1800 B.C., the land of Canaan was occupied by Canaanites.Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan. So the Canaanites are the real occupants of the 'holy land'., not the hebrews who invaded in 1800 BC.
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If you are going to read the bible get it right.
The Hebrews came from Canaan origonally.
If you are going to look to Archaeology then get it right also.
In any case the Ebrews were canaanites.
There never was an invasion according to most archaeological records that we have now.
The Hebrew relligion just became the dominent religion in the area.
| Quote: | | "Recent archeological digs have provided evidence that Jerusalem was a big and fortified city already in 1800 BCE... |
You are conversing with an archaeologist and historian so if you are going to quote stuff get it right.
In 1800 bce Jerusalem was a little nothing town capital of nothing.
Get yourself the Bar cd or go to their site for lots of first hand arechariolgical evidence on this.
| Quote: | "The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David's conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule." Illene Beatty, "Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan."
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You are trying my patience.
I will not argue with self taught ignorant propagandists
I will not even discuss the matter with them.
They can not be taught or convinced as their minds are made up before hand.
KIng David goes back to about 1000 bce.
It was an occupied Jewish nation, part of the Roman empite in the time of Jesus, that's over a thousand years
And that is if you do not count the time back to Moses.
| Quote: | Wasn't Palestine a wasteland before the Jews started immigrating there?
If this is the case why were 80 per cent of Arabs engaged in Agriculture in 1938.
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I do not know where you get this number.
Most arabs engaged in agriculture at any time were tennant farmers and did not own their own land.
| Quote: | Britain's high commissioner for Palestine, John Chancellor, recommended total suspension of Jewish immigration and land purchase to protect Arab agriculture. He said 'all cultivable land was occupied; that no cultivable land now in possession of the indigenous population could be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators'...The Colonial Office rejected the recommendation." John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."
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So what does one ignorant arabist opinion have to do with any thing.
The Land now supports 5 milliion people and exports tons and tons of produce all over the world.
Which goes to prove how ignorant the high commissioner was.
The reason he recommended against the allowance of Jews in was because the arabs objected to Jews comeing in and Britian wanted deals on Arab oil and thought to have the arabs on thier side in the coming war with Nazi Germany.
How wrong they were.
| Quote: | No this is a lie. In 1917, there were 56,000 Jews in Palestine and 644,000 Palestinian Arabs.
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No actually you lie or are misinformed.
The census figures you give were not made in 1917 but around 1885 and by the turks.
There was a war on in 1917 and no one was taking census.
You also have your figures a little mixed up.The figure was not 56,000 Jews and 644,000 arabs.
It was 644,000 others which included Arabs, Druze,Christian, Germans, Turkomen and all sorts of other non muslim and non arab peoples who lived their.
The Turks were only interested in Jews and Non Jews and did not enumberate the non jews.
In addition the non Jew figure included what is now Jorden which was mostly occupied by non Jews.
A closer estimate was that in 1885 there were about an equal number (60,000) each of Jews and arabs in what is now Israel.
From that time till about 1922 when the arabs started returning their was a net reduction of arab population in the area.
The country was hit by 6 Locust plauges in that time.
In the 1915 plauge which was the worse, over 40,000 people died of starvation. and the land was emptied of arabs..
I have photos and the story from the dec 1915 issue of National geographics. I can send you a copy if you are of sufficient interest.
The difference betweem you and I is that I have first hand information on these things and you have only propaganda..
I have copies of the Times going back over 100 years and The Palistinian Post going back about 80 years ,and National Geographics going back about 110 years to draw my information from.
You have only arab propaganda to draw your information from.
I have first hand census reports going back about 110 years and you have propaganca.
You are arguing with the wrong person.
| Quote: | There were over one thousand villages in Palestine at the turn of the 19th century. Jerusalem, Haifa, Gaza, Jaffa, Nablus, Acre, Jericho, Ramle, Hebron and Nazareth were flourishing towns. The hills were painstakingly terraced. Irrigation ditches crisscrossed the land. The citrus orchards, olive groves and grains of Palestine were known throughout the world. Trade, crafts, textiles, cottage industry and agricultural production abounded.
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Your kidding of course.
Even Mark twain who wrote from thier in his "Innocents Abroad" commented that he traveled 80 miles and never ran into one living person.
The place was empty and desolet at the end of the 19th century'
What irrigation ditches what citrus orchards.
The place was a barren desolete desert.
You can stand on a hill and see for a hundred miles and there is not one house of person in sight.
I have many photographs of the area then.
Tel Aviv was a barren desert.
Nothing in sight.
I have pictures of that too.
I even have US goverment photos of the area in it's articles on desertification.
You are a dreamer.
| Quote: | Eighteenth and 19th century travellers' accounts are replete with the data, as were the scholarly quarterly reports published in the 19th century by the British Palestine Exploration Fund.
Arabs were engaged in working the land. As my above post cites.
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YOu are out of your mind.
I have copies of those reports.
They tell of empty deserts and Mark twain wrote one of them.,
Perhaps you should read it.
Your above post cites day dreams of past arab glories.
| Quote: | An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907...called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of Jewish Settlment
activity...Like Ahad-Ha'am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession...
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Good land, what good land.
The Jews did not need good land.
They bought deserts and swamps, paying twice for the land.
Once to the Egyptian and Turkish owners and once to the arabs who worked the land when it was arible.
They drained the swamps.
In one swamp alone 1500 people died of Malaria draing it.
The watered the desert so it bloomed again.
The Jewish people paid for the land twice with money and many times over with their lives as they died by the hundreds from Malaria.
| Quote: | The avowed purpose of the Zionist movement was not merely to exploit the Palestinian people but to disperse and dispossess them.
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Why do you insist on showing your self to be an ignorant fool or are you joking with me.?
I am beginning to think you are as no one can be that stupid and still breath.
I will waste no more time with you. _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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You can make up baloney far faster than I can answere you. _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Bush's roadmap sabotaged by Saudis
By Mike Evans
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
Following the events of Sept. 11, 2001, and the discovery that the majority of the hijackers involved in the decimation of the World Trade Center towers and the attack on the Pentagon were from Saudi Arabia, officials in Saudi announced that "charitable organizations would no longer be authorized to provide funds outside of Saudi Arabia, other than through highly controlled and government-supervised channels." The argument by Saudi diplomats continues that after Sept. 11, "they had turned over a new leaf."
Are the Saudis really as squeaky-clean as they claim, or are they playing a game of smoke and mirrors? Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal recently flew to the U.S. to ask that the still-classified information on the events of 9-11 be released. This trip came on the heels of the Saudi Ambassador's vehement statement that his country had "nothing to hide."
However, it is apparent that the Saudis have much to hide. Information gleaned from the U.S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs hearing on "Origins, Organization and Prevention of Terrorist Finance" is rife with Saudi involvement in the funding of terrorist organizations that appear on the U.S. Specially Designated Global Terrorists list – including al-Qaida and Hamas.
The Saudi foreign policy adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah said on CNN's "Crossfire," "We do not allow funding to go from Saudi Arabia to Hamas." On June 23, 2003, Prince al-Faisal reiterated to the Saudi daily Arab news that only the PLO as the "legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, received funding from his country."
Unfortunately for his royal highness, the paper trail proves otherwise. The PLO was formed long before Sept. 11, 2001, yet during Israel's Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, a hand-written letter from Mahmoud Abbas to Prince Salman (brother of King Fahd) was found. It was dated Dec. 30, 2000. The letter included complaints from Abbas that Saudi donations were going to al-Jamiya (the Islamic Society), an arm of Hamas. Abbas wanted the funds for Fatah, his own organization.
Are there still connections between Saudi Arabia and Hamas? In October 2002, Khaled Mashal, one of the top leaders of Hamas, was invited to Saudi Arabia for a World Assembly of Muslim Youth conference. Another captured document revealed the information that Mashal had been invited to the conference by Crown Prince Abdullah. At the time, Hamas firmly refused to halt terror attacks while being assured by Saudi officials of their continued support.
On June 3, 2003, President George Bush met with the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Bahrain at Sharm al-Sheik. Following the meeting, Bush announced that all had committed themselves "to use all means to cut off assistance to terrorist groups."
In spite of this declaration of intent, even today – according to Israeli sources – Saudi Arabia contributes more than 50 percent of the needs of Hamas through dual-use charities. That assures the charities that funnel money to fund terrorist activities are still helped. And the amount of foreign aid is growing, not declining. Families of suicide bombers are still rewarded with aid.
What should be done to establish the link between Saudi Arabia and terrorist groups once and for all? The classified information regarding Saudi Arabia's involvement in funding terrorists should be declassified. No government that aids and abets the heinous activities of terrorists should be allowed to escape culpability.
The Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal also told Bush, according to an intelligence source, to "back away from demanding that the Palestine Authority dismantle militant [terrorist] groups immediately," referring to Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
The administration has agreed for the present time. Indeed, not only the roadmap for peace has been sabotaged by the Saudis, but also the Bush doctrine on terrorism which states that those who "harbor or support terror" are enemies of the United States. This will send a signal to the terrorist regimes that America has changed its policy and is willing to negotiate with terrorists.
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:03 am Post subject: |
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America has always been willing to negotiate with terrorists when it served the USA's needs.
America has never been accused of taking the high road. _________________ to answere directly email to
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Antonia
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 481
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bush badee
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 1442 Location: usa
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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These were probly home grown terrorists. _________________ to answere directly email to
Bushbadee@aol.com |
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