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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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 Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
Why did Mohammed marry Aisha if he didnt want to have sex with her or if he was'nt going to have sex with her? If suppose, he decided he would have sex with Aisha when she was 15, he, the old horny man (as correctly put by Ali Sina), would have waited and would have married her at 15 and not at 9.
Thanks for letting confirm today the truth about 72 houris. I had heard of it and I beleived it, but I never saw the original source, here is it:
| Quote: | According to Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72:
"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]’." |
I'm sure there are more.
For more information, check out:
http://answering-islam.org/Books/Tisdall/Sources/chapt5.htm#p235
Quran CONFIRMS that a PLURAL number of high-bosomed (big-boobed) women will be available for the man:
| Quote: | 044:054
* Even so (it will be). And We shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.
052:020
* Reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.
055:072
* Fair ones, close-guarded in pavilions -
056:022
* And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, |
Also the same 72 number is confirmed by:
Imam at-Tirmidhi in "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", Chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687):
| Quote: | | "Sawda (Tirmidhi’s grandfather) reported that he heard from Abdullah, who received from Rishdin b. Sa’d, who in turn learned from Amr b. al-Harith, from Darraj, from Abul-Haytham, from Abu Sa’id al-Khudri, who received it from the Apostle of God [Muhammad]: The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as [wide as the distance] between al-Jaabiyya and San’a." |
When I was Muslim, I beleived in the 72 houris and I'm telling the truth here.
SMHA, let me ask you this:
Quran promises plural number of women for men. Why would you have problem in beleiving that they are 72 in number? Wouldnt that be nice, 72 virgin beautiful high-bosomed women to service you all day long?
Also see:
| Quote: | | Ibn Kathir's Commentary on Surah al-Waqi'ah (56), ayat (verses) 35-37, quotes the hadith according to which "The Prophet Muhammad, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him, was asked: 'Will we have sex in Paradise?' He answered: 'Yes, by Him Who holds my soul in His hand, and it will be done with a strong shove. When it is finished, she will return untouched and virgin again." |
What a dirty mind. Isnt there more to life than having sex?
SMHA,
What about gay men? they wont like 72 houris and high-bosomed (big-boobed) women, so what will Allah give them? A box of ribbed condoms and a male vibrator?
SMHA: remember, I was muslim for 20 years. You are now surrounded by 3 ex-muslims. Come leave Islam, brother. Islam is a false religion and Mohammed was not a good man.
Adnan
Check the below inquiry from a Muslim, on Jannah.org ( a site run by a female Muslim)
| Quote: | | I found this message posted by a Hindu Ba*****, and it really disturbed me. I had this question in my mind long ago, and he really aggravated the thing. I don't understand why Islam promises houris to Men in Jannat and not any Male models to women. It really disturbs me. Although I am male, I feel very troubled because of this thing. I'm sending the entire aritcle (Bull S***). Could you please post a reply to this at Dejanews and send me one by email. I would really appreciate it. http://www.jannah.org/faq/page6.html |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="adnan"]
| Quote: | According to Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72:
"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]’." |
There are many thing attributed to the Prophet in books of tradition but not are authentic, this traditions is probably a weak transmission.
http://www.islamicity.com/communications/Discussion/DiscussionGuest.shtml
--------Let Sina answer for himsself. I will wait for his answer. |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| yeezevee wrote: | | Quote: | | SMHA: (Sina, stick around, i worn you, don't use the trick of insults and valgur language , you are a Dr. lets show you can communicate in civil manner.) |
dear SMHA, Warning is O. K. but Do You believe in Hadiaths? Do you think that hadiaths are the life style and the words that came out of the Last messanger of the mankind??
You shoud read Hadiaths and try to think .......
regards
yeezevee |
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=75877#75877
_________________
"They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths,
but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected,
even though the Unbelievers may detest." [Quran 9:32] |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA
You asked for the source:
| SMHA wrote: | | Source of 70 houries? |
You got the source now.
| SMHA wrote: | | There are many thing attributed to the Prophet in books of tradition but not are authentic, this traditions is probably a weak transmission. |
The tradition may be weak, but its surely strong for any Muslim to easily beleive in it. How could the "72 houris" concept get so popular otherwise in muslim societies?
In Pakistan, we say "satar hoorain" (seventy houris) and its something that almost everyone beleived.
I beleived it too when I was Muslim.So I dont know what you're trying to prove.
Lets see some points to support why this hadith could be true:
1) QURAN talks of PLURAL women which men will get.
2) This hadith BUILDS on what the Quran said and mentions the NUMBER of women they'll get.
(2) follows from (1).
(1) is the more important fact. (2) is like "This tree exists"
(1) is like "the tree is 30 feet high".
Ofcourse you cannot refuse that the building exists, its in Quran.
Why have a problem with the number of houris?
Are you honest with us that you dont beleive in 72 houris?
If you dont beleive in 72 houris, ofcourse you beleive that they are more than 1 since the plural form has been mentioned in Quran.
So that would be analogus with you beleiving in spitting on more than 1 people's faces and but not believing in spitting on 72 people's faces.
Get the point? I dont know whats your own personal beleive, whether you beleive in 72 houris or not.
Adnan |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Adnan, if you believed in it or others around you did , because some street Mullah gave a sermon citing sources to make you happy you can't blame it on Islam. Do your research and ask question and study the source before you believe in something. I know there anr many beliefs and many funny things in the books of traditons but that doesn't mean they are true.People compiled thousands saying 200 years after , use your brain did he have time to investigate all or they just compiled it for later scholars to do the job of investigating it.
FYI:
"Before resorting to quote anything on the authority of the great learned Mullah(Baquir-Majlisi", one should know that the great Mullah had never said that whatever he has quoted is a gospel truth. The collection of the traditions, he has made, is a store of food for the thought of those busy in hte scrutiny of the traditions of the Holy Prophet, and it is up to the seekers of the knowledge of the Ahadees (traditions), to pick out the genuine ones from the collection, and from the false ones to know the turn of the minds which effected the counterfeit sayings. It is a universally acknowledged by all scholars that the great work of the collection of the traditions by Mullah Baquir-e-Majlisi 'Bihar-ul-Anwar' or the ocens of Lights, contain in its traditions:-
Saheeh--Correct
Ghalat--Wrong or False
M'otabar--Reliable
Ghaira M'otabar--Unreliable
Mustanad--Certified
Ghaira Mustanad--Uncertified
Musalsal--Continuously related
Ghaira Musalsal--Not continuously related
Ah'haad--The lonley-related by only one person and not supported by any one else."
Page:130
Husain
The Saviour of Islam
By:S.V.Mir Ahmed Ali |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
Suppose I am still a Muslim. Even if the hadith is weak, I would (and I did) sincerely beleive in the hadith, because:
Quran has already said that I will receive MULTIPLE number of women in paradise.
Thus, as a muslim, there is no reason for me to reject the hadith and there should be no reason for you to reject the hadith as well.
Adnan |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| adnan wrote: | SMHA,
Suppose I am still a Muslim. Even if the hadith is weak, I would (and I did) sincerely beleive in the hadith, because:
Quran has already said that I will receive MULTIPLE number of women in paradise.
Thus, as a muslim, there is no reason for me to reject the hadith and there should be no reason for you to reject the hadith as well.
Adnan |
Make sure you are not singeling out a verse or part of it to believe in whatever you want to believe in.
FYI:
You can read the entire article "Understanding the Uniqueness of the Qur'an" at http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_understanding.htm#auq |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
| Quote: | | Make sure you are not singeling out a verse or part of it to believe in whatever you want to believe in. |
I have not "singled out" any verse. You may verify the translations.
Quran says that men will get multiple number of women in heaven.
This is a fact. Now go and verify it yourself. Its your duty to verify so stop being lazy. If you dont like to debate or make effort, stop talking and call someone who can debate.
My advice: Ask yourself "Why did I not see the Quranic verse itself before telling Adnan to make he didnt single out the verse?"
Would it not have been a stronger reply if you had verified Quran for yourself and suppose you had found something else and I had been wrong?
Would'nt that method be stronger? Strike when the iron is hot, they say.
Your linked article is wrong and does not address the allegations made in my link below.
Truth about Quran: http://answering-islam.org/Quran/index.html
There is nothing unique in Quran. Quran is as unique as the pattern observed on the ground if I throw up a handful of rice.
Adnan |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| adnan wrote: | SMHA,
| Quote: | | Make sure you are not singeling out a verse or part of it to believe in whatever you want to believe in. |
I have not "singled out" any verse. You may verify the translations.
Quran says that men will get multiple number of women in heaven.
This is a fact. Now go and verify it yourself. Its your duty to verify instead so stop being lazy. If you dont like to debate or make effort, stop talking and call someone who can debate.
By the way, you talk of "singling out a verse" as if "singling out a chicken for slaughter".
Your linked article is wrong and does not address the allegations made in my link below.
Truth about Quran: http://answering-islam.org/Quran/index.html
There is nothing unique in Quran. Quran is as unique as the pattern observed on the ground if I throw up a handful of rice.
Adnan |
You were doing fine but this last post you are back to been your self again. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
Lets see a mature answer to my post this time and we'll see who's acting like a teenager.
| Quote: | | Make sure you are not singeling out a verse or part of it to believe in whatever you want to believe in. |
I have made sure that I am not singling out any Quranic verse.
Quran says that men will get multiple number of women in heaven.
You may verify the translations.
Adnan
_________________
O Muslims, Leave Islam. When Allah asks you "Why did you leave Islam?", tell him "Because, You said in Quran 2:256,'there is no compulsion in religion'." |
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SMHA
Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Adnan, i am aware of your tactics, we startwed with 72 houries and it was a weak hadith, you want to believe in it because it says in the Quran abotu multiple women. First collect all the verses dealing with this subject.
Second. Sina can't hide .he needs to come out and expalin how did he get to the conclusion he got to. So don't think i am going to let you change topics.' |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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SMHA,
First: You doubted that Quran did talked about the multiple number of women.
For that, I showed you that Quran says that men will get multiple number of women in heaven and I have challenged you to verify the translations.
Have you done so?
Do you now agree that Quran talks about multiple women?
| Quote: | | We startwed with 72 houries and it was a weak hadith, you want to believe in it |
I have told you when i was Muslim, I beleived in the 70 houris hadith.
Why must a Muslim not beleive in this hadith? What is wrong with this hadith? On what basis must it be rejected?
There are other hadiths that are weak and talk of good things in Islam. Should we reject them too?
Second: I am not changing the topic and I'm not responsible for how Ali responds. He will respond on his own will and time. So, dont make irrellevant and illogical demands on me that "Ali must respond". I am not Ali. I am Adnan. Next time be careful and more logical.
Adnan |
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