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doubtless
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 1497
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 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do you read medical literature? No such thing as 'old science' in med lit. |
You have got to be kidding!! Remember the medical science before they discovered that disinfecting instruments was useful? Is that old science or what? More recently, are we learning how bacteria adapts to anti-biotics, which is changing some dearly held notions of what bacterial cell membranes were doing?
If you cannot distinguish between old data and hypothesis that need to be discarded, then what can anyone say? Go talk to a doctor! I talk to one every day. I have to. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | cx14: I am glad we agree that it is a ghaaaastly practice. |
Off course, I will agree with your assessment of FGM, Any one who supports NOW or supported this bloody custom in the past must be stupid. It is actually a Crime against young women, I am sure you too will agree with me.
| Quote: | | I think what they are trying to say is removal of a part of the labia minora(do u have medic know- how? icon_smile.gif) |
Forget about medic and medical knowledge, dear friend, I note your "icon_smile.gif", It is no joking matter, it is just an indication of immaturity. So what do you think about Removal of a part? Do you think that http://www.jannah.org/ is right in saying "no part of the sexual organ is cut off."??
| Quote: | | cx14:I read some time ago this really great book by an Egytian (I think) medic it brought the historical aspects (ancient Egyptian) medical aspects as well as the Islamic aspects. I believe all scholars asked by the guy were unanimous in that so long as the Hadith is weak and medical evidence proves harm then discontinuation of the practice would be best. |
What is this cx14, what are you writing here. With the medical words that you are using here, I was under the impression that you are a Doc or would be Doc. and you know very well, you are well educated...
Do we really need to consult ancient Egyptian doctor about this stupid practice? Do we really need to look in to WEAK Hadith, Strong Hadith, weak Koran, and strong Qu’ran for this nonsense? It is a stupid custom, hurts as many as 130 million young women, across the world, there is no reason to look in to the BOOK just Ban it. At the same time educate the irrational idiots, who say, "Oh Mohammad said, let us follow it strictly"
| Quote: | cx14: As for Allah forbidding the whole business.
Firstly, I'm not in Allah's confidence.
Secondly, that would not be a wise act: |
Dear cx14, Let me tell you an open secret, not just you, NO ONE IS in Allah's confidence, including Mohammad. Not only Mohammad, it is also true in the case of other prophets.
| Quote: | | cx14:There are cases YZV of genital hyperplasia and cases of labial hyperplasia, do you think it is fair that God would give strict injunctions to forbid a plastic surgery to these cases where a return to the normal would Definitely cause less psychological trauma??? |
Dear friend, again the GOD NEVER GAVE ANY INJUNCTION about any thing to any one. It is those smart Human beings in the name GOD gave all those injunctions, interjections, rules and regulations. Off course the reason we learn all that medical background/surgical expertise is for correcting the problem of genetic or otherwise and help the people to get with their normal lives.
| Quote: | | cx14:hi, back again, I don't see any prob. with the jannah site? |
YOU DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY THING THAT IS THERE IN ISLAM, Mohammad and Koran/Hadith. That is ok, but don't you think we should write to them to come out hard on this barbaric custom?
| Quote: | anyway, why are you comparing male and female circ?
theres a world of dif. betw. the two.
Check some of the male circ advoca"tes.- loads of sites. |
I CONSIDER BOTH ARE STUPID PRACTICES AND HAVE NO MEDICAL VALUE WHAT SO EVER...
| Quote: | | Medically there is no question of the health benefits acruing to circumcised males.Shall we put infection and cancer at the top? |
Where do you get that from? FROM RELIGIOUS MEDICAL BOOKS? It is nonsense to say that in this age and time, that cutting the foreskin saves from infection and cancer.
| Quote: | cx14: If the hypothesis has a foundation of truth it is valid.
Nothing is absolutely harmless, the risk benefit ratio is weighed. |
Let us think a bit here, why would you assume that the Hypothesis has a foundation of TRUTH? Hypothesis is something a thoughtful person puts forward and tries to validate it with his rational and experimental output . You don't start with a Hypothesis saying that "it is the truth". offcourse "Nothing is absolutely harmless" not only that "Nothing is absolute".
NOW if you weigh the ratio of RISK to benefit in this case; THERE IS NO BENFIT HERE, it is all risk and it is only risk. So dear friend, join the groups and help the people where ever you can, to put full stop to this barbaric custom the so called FGM.
let us continue and educate ourselves and educate others on this subject.
With best regards
yeezevee |
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cx14
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:19 am Post subject: yzv: don't argue for the sake of argument |
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Forget about medic and medical knowledge, dear friend, I note your "icon_smile.gif", It is no joking matter, it is just an indication of immaturity. So what do you think about Removal of a part? Do you think that http://www.jannah.org/ is right in saying "no part of the sexual organ is cut off."?? |
No I can't forget about medical knowledge. the smile was not intended as a joke I was trying to politely ask your degree of medical comprehension. No joke was intended. They are right when they say that no part of the clitoris is removed. Do you have any idea of the blood supply of the clitoris? It has its own artery. Cutting off that organ would be a very bloody deed(no pun intended).
In fact only a very ignorant person, past present or future would INTENTIONALLY take that risk.
That person would indeed as you stated be a nutcase.
The upper part of the labia minora is cut. The whole practice is dumb and if you payed attention to my exact words you would have realised what I said when I tried to summarize a professor of Gynaecology's book on the subject which was not only very comprehensive but covered the whole case past, present and future. From not just the medical perspective but also legally and religiously-all religions included.
| Quote: | | Do we really need to consult ancient Egyptian doctor about this stupid practice? Do we really need to look in to WEAK Hadith, Strong Hadith, weak Koran, and strong Qu’ran for this nonsense? It is a stupid custom, hurts as many as 130 million young women, across the world, there is no reason to look in to the BOOK just Ban it. At the same time educate the irrational idiots, who say, "Oh Mohammad said, let us follow it strictly" |
Now yzv I was under the impression that you are a very intelligent person. What you are saying is extremely unwise. You are definitely Not a doctor. You have no idea how to win people to your argument, no knowledge of 'counselling' as practised by doctors.
If you tell someone he is an idiot he will in all likelihood
answer back-and do the opposite that you want him to do. The whole business is cultural. So how do you stop people from practising ? By giving sound evidence to the contrary of their beliefs.
Comprendez?
There is no proof that Prophet Mohamed said this hadith that is why it is called 'weak' that makes this practice from the religious point of view null. Next step is there proved harm? Well in the hands of an expert-frankly, NO. So should we allow its continuation with stress that it be performed by an expert? NO.
Why? Because at the age when this is performed the female genitalia has not reached full development. Unless a great deal of tissue is removed its aim will be less valid thatn if the young girl waits until she gets married when her genitalia will have fully matured and she has the combined opinion of both herself(a now mature young lady) and her husband. This is now called plastic surgery.
Don't try sticking everything to Islam my good friend. Unless you provide me with hadith which from the point of verification are strong and good or an aya from the Quraan I will Unfortunately brand you with your hate fanatic friend Ali Sina-and believe me I have no wish to do that. I respect your intellect too much.
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YOU DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY THING THAT IS THERE IN ISLAM, Mohammad and Koran/Hadith. That is ok, but don't you think we should write to them to come out hard on this barbaric custom? |
I do. Besides, what they think is unnecessary, it is the grand Muftis thoughts that matter, the ones who give the iftaa. These are all as I prev. stated unanimous in saying better not since medical evidence shows more harm than good.
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I CONSIDER BOTH ARE STUPID PRACTICES AND HAVE NO MEDICAL VALUE WHAT SO EVER... |
don't argue for the sake of argument. What you consider is of no consequence whatsoever(no insult intended)
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NOW if you weigh the ratio of RISK to benefit in this case; THERE IS NO BENFIT HERE, it is all risk and it is only risk. So dear friend, join the groups and help the people where ever you can, to put full stop to this barbaric custom the so called FGM.
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I've lost you there. I was responding as re Male circumcision.
Read about it first.
let us continue and educate ourselves and educate others on this subject.
yes I agree to this.
With best regards
_________________
True Are The Words Of Allah |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cx14, glad to see your very thoughtful reply and happy to note that the "smile” was intended as joke on my medical background NOT ON FGM.
| Quote: | cx14:
"the smile was not intended as a joke, I was trying to politely ask your degree of medical comprehension. No joke was intended." They are right when they say that no part of the clitoris is removed. Do you have any idea of the blood supply of the clitoris? It has its own artery. Cutting off that organ would be a very bloody deed(no pun intended). In fact only a very ignorant person, past present or future would INTENTIONALLY take that risk. That person would indeed as you stated be a nutcase. The upper part of the labia minora is cut. The whole practice is dumb and if you payed attention to my exact words you would have realised what I said .......... |
What I understand from your responses on this subject is that FGM is a cruel practice AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM, WITH KORAN AND WITH MOHAMMAD
| Quote: | | cx14: Now yzv I was under the impression that you are a very intelligent person. What you are saying is extremely unwise. You are definitely Not a doctor. You have no idea how to win people to your argument, no knowledge of 'counselling' as practised by doctors. |
Dear cx14, I agree with you here and certainly as you pointed out have no knowledge of 'counseling' as practiced by psychiatrists. Well, as far as intelligence is concerned, it is very much time and subject dependent and I agree with that also. Now not for the sake of argument, but to educate my-self, "WHAT IS UNWISE WHAT I SAID" regarding this subject of FGM?
| Quote: | If you tell someone he is an idiot he will in all likelihood
answer back-and do the opposite that you want him to do. The whole business is cultural. So how do you stop people from practising ? By giving sound evidence to the contrary of their beliefs. |
Let me clarify here a bit, you may be right here I didn't do a good job of what I meant. I have not intended that remark "IDIOT" for the innocent mothers of the young women, who may consider FMG is good for their daughters as it is practiced for generations. I will also exclude here those fathers who are very uneducated and have no idea what it is and what it means for the young women's life. Let me give you this UNIFEM website
http://www.unifem.undp.org/trustfund/mali.html
| Quote: | The Struggle Against FGM in Mali
In her battle against female genital mutilation (FGM) in Mali, Fatoumata Sire Diakite says one incident in particular stands. Diakite had been working with a group of FGM practitioners to help them understand the often life-threatening consequences of the procedure on women and girls.
"Our goal was not to criticize, but to listen to them and to have them listen to us," she says. "They heard the testimony of mothers who lost their daughters from complications due to FGM....
Diakite says, "she faces a great deal of opposition from Islamic conservatives who argue that FGM is an Islamic practice condoned by the Koran. She rejects the argument that the practice is sanctioned by the tenets of Islam and works to counter this misguided perception" .. |
Yes, I DO CONSIDER, those Islamic Mullahs who think "that the practice is condoned by the Koran" as IDIOTS, along with, if the parents are educated and still go and do this to their daughter, Indeed THEY ARE IDIOTS.
| Quote: | cx14:Comprendez?
There is no proof that Prophet Mohamed said this Hadith that is why it is called 'weak' that makes this practice from the religious point of view null. Next step is there proved harm? Well in the hands of an expert-frankly, NO. So should we allow its continuation with stress that it be performed by an expert? NO.
Why? Because at the age when this is performed the female genitalia has not reached full development. Unless a great deal of tissue is removed its aim will be less valid than if the young girl waits until she gets married when her genitalia will have fully matured and she has the combined opinion of both herself(a now mature young lady) and her husband. This is now called plastic surgery.
Don't try sticking everything to Islam my good friend. Unless you provide me with hadith which from the point of verification are strong and good or an aya from the Quraan I will Unfortunately brand you with your hate fanatic friend Ali Sina-and believe me I have no wish to do that. I respect your intellect too much. |
Dear cx14, I am unable clarify you all the above in one response, specially the colored one, but in-time we will do. Again I am certainly not at FFI just for the sake of argument but learn some and teach some. And Let us not discuss about Mohammad. The problem with Mohammad saying is, If he said or did once for whatever is the reason, for many many human beings for the past 1500 years IT HAS BECOME A GOD SENT WORD. that is where the problem comes.
Here is one, I consider it as a classical PC statement of well educated, articulated ISLAMIC APOLOGISTS,
"Well in the hands of an expert-frankly, NO. So should we allow its continuation with stress that it be performed by an expert? NO."..... what is it even necessary to write this? Can't we just say, this FGM practice is detrimental for young females so let us work and support those who work against this......
| Quote: | | ....it is the grand Muftis thoughts that matter, the ones who give the iftaa... |
Dear cx14, If I understand you right, "THE PROBELM IS GRAND MUFTI THOUGHTS".,..... Do you agree it is time to work against this GRAND MUFTIS, By the way Where do these GRAND MUFTIS get power to do what they do?
Dear friend, I am here to learn from people like you, on that note if it is a bit argumental bear with me... But let me conclude here, what I understand from your responses..
| Quote: | FGM has no good reason so it has to go, without any ifs, buts, Doctors and plastic surgeons. do you agree with this?
MALE baby Male circumcision Is GOOD FOR medical reasons.??? or Religious reasons?? or religious and medical reasons are there?
did I conclude it right?
FGM has nothing to do with ISLAM, MOHAMMAD, KORAN and Hadith... |
So with the above in mind, let us discuss a bit more on this subject in near future.
with best regards
yeezevee |
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nina
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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This hadith from the Jannah-page was mentioned, but I can't find it from which collection it is.
| Quote: | There is, however, a more authentic Hadeeth in which Prophet Muhammad (P) is reported to have passed by a woman performing circumcision on a young girl. He instructed the woman by saying:
"Cut off only the foreskin (outer fold of skin over the clitoris; the prepuce) but do not cut off deeply (i.e. the clitoris itself), for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband." [8] |
Here is one from Abu Dawud.
| Quote: | Book 41, Number 5251:
Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah:
A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. |
As you can see, this is about circumcizing in Medina. It's not made clear how deep the cutting should be. It might mean, as long as she does not die and still can have babies. It seems that that is what many husbands find desirable. Nothing is said about foreskin or clitoris.
It's especially not discouraged or condemned either. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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The friends of FFI are adding so many new threads so quickly, the subject so Islam and Africa went all the way back, let us learn a bit more about the contribution of Mohammadonain Islam to the African Natives. We understand fairly well how this horrible practice of Female Genital mutilation has been going on in Africa and its relation with Mr. Mohammad‘s (PUBH) Suras. So let us learn a bit more about the development of the Muslim religion on the African continent.
| Quote: | During Muhammad's lifetime a group of Muslims escaped Meccan persecution (615) by fleeing to Ethiopia, where the Negus gave them protection. The spread of Islam in Africa began in the 7th and 8th cent. with the Umayyads, who brought the religion to the Middle East and to the littoral of North Africa. Along the coast of Africa Islam spread among the Berbers, who joined the Muslim community and almost immediately drove north across the Mediterranean into Europe.
In Morocco, Muslims founded the city of Fès (808), which soon thereafter gave refuge to Andalusian Muslims fleeing an uprising in Córdoba (see Idrisids). On the east coast of Africa, where Arab mariners had for many years journeyed to trade, Arabs founded permanent colonies on the offshore islands, especially on Zanzibar, in the 9th and 10th cent. From there Arab trade routes into the interior of Africa helped the slow acceptance of Islam and led to the development of Swahili culture and language.
Prior to the 19th cent. the greatest gains made by Islam were in the lands immediately south of the Sahara. The Islamization of W Africa began when the ancient kingdom of Ghana (c.990) extended itself into the Sahara and the Islamic center at Sanhajah. Mansa Musa (1307–32) of Mali was among the first to make Islam the state religion.
By the 16th cent. the empire of Mali and its successor-state Songhaj included several Saharan centers of trade and Muslim learning, such as Timbuktu. In the region of the E Sudan, Islamic penetration followed the route of the Nile. By about 1366, Makurra, the more northerly of the two Christian kingdoms of the E Sudan, became Islamic. The other kingdom, Aloa, was captured (c.1504) by the Muslims.
In the 16th centuray the Somali conqueror Ahmad Gran unsuccessfully attempted to convert Ethiopia to Islam. In the late 18th and early 19th cent., Africa, like the rest of the Muslim world, was swept by a wave of religious reform. Militant reformers, such as the Fulani and the followers of Hajj Omar, greatly extended the area over which Islam held sway in W Africa. Usumanu dan Fodio (1809) founded the Sokoto caliphate, which was eventually incorporated under British rule into Nigeria.
The Muslim brotherhoods also gained many new converts
European colonialists in many cases adopted Muslim law as a unifying administrative structure, rather than the indigenous and often competing tribal customs of their artificially demarcated colonies. Islam in Africa has to varying degrees incorporated tribal and pre-Islamic practices, and the Muslims of Africa have accepted claims of several self-proclaimed Mahdis. In the 20th cent. Islam has gained more converts in Africa than has Christianity, which labors under the burden of identification with European imperialism. |
Bibliography
J. S. Trimingham, Islam in West Africa (1959), Islam in East Africa (1964), Islam in the Sudan (2d ed. 1949, repr. 1965), Islam in Ethiopia (1952, repr. 1965), and The Influence of Islam on Africa (1968); J. and L. Kritzeck, ed., Islam in Africa (1969).
Let us learn a bit more about Islam and Africa
with best regards
yeezevee |
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CroMagnon
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2112
Location: West Kafiristan
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi yeezevee  Interesting thread. On the subject of muslim converts in Africa, I may have some interesting info on growth of islam and christianity in Africa...
You quoted:
| Quote: | Islam has gained more converts in Africa than has Christianity, which labors under the burden of identification with European imperialism.
Bibliography
J. S. Trimingham, Islam in West Africa (1959), Islam in East Africa (1964), Islam in the Sudan (2d ed. 1949, repr. 1965), Islam in Ethiopia (1952, repr. 1965), and The Influence of Islam on Africa (1968); J. and L. Kritzeck, ed., Islam in Africa (1969). |
This bibliography may be a bit outdated? More recent figures suggest that X-tianity is taking off big time in Africa (and elsewhere in the 'southern hemisphere'/'third world'). In the 'third' world Islam is growing fast because there is a high birthrate in those countries among the muslims, but of course the same is true for the christian populations in these parts of the world. Anyway, there is some interesting info to be found with a bit of searching ....
The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity
By Philip Jenkins
http://www.cmd.org.nz/bookinfo/jenkins.htm
| Quote: | | The explosive southward expansion of Christianity in Africa, Asia, and Latin American has barely registered on Western consciousness. Nor has the globalization of Christianity - and the enormous religious, political, and social consequences it portends - been properly understood. |
Many Are Turning to Christ in Africa
http://www.2001pray.org/ManyAreTurning.htm
| Quote: | In an article titled, Continent Records Highest Growth In Christianity, Osman Njuguna states, 'With an annual increase of 3.5 percent, representing an estimated 6 million 'new' Christians, Africa is 'registering one of the fastest Christian growth rate in the world.' David Barret in A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in the Modern World 1900-2000 observes that Christians increased from 9.9 million in 1900 (about 0.6 percent of the world's population then) to 203 million in 1980 (about 4.7 percent) and is increasing by 6 million a year currently.
Elizabeth Isichei, professor of religious studies at Otago University, Dunedin New Zealand in her book History of Christianity in Africa: From Antiquity to the Present says, 'The expansion of Christianity in twentieth-century Africa has been so dramatic that it has been called 'the fourth great age of Christian expansion.' 'there were 10 million African Christians in 1900, 143 million in 1970, and there will be 393 million in the year 2000, which would mean that 1 in 5 of all Christians would be an African'
'It is clear that, in the words of one thoughtful scholar, 'perhaps one of the two or three most important events in the whole of Christian history has occurred: a complete change in the center of gravity of Christianity, so that the heartlands of the Church are no longer in Europe and North America, but in Latin America, in certain parts of Asia, and in Africa.' |
Even some muslims more or less admit & accept these figures. About Africa they say:
Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
| Quote: | | "every hour islam loses 667 muslims convert to Christianity, every Day 16000 , every year 6 MILLION" |
and another muslim writer states:
| Quote: | | "... in these countries the number who has embraced Christianity amounts to legion. The old myth that the Muslims are staunch believers and cannot be converted to any other religion holds no water. Modern missionaries with their vast resources and foreign aid have exploded this myth. They are scoring great successes in this field." |
best regards
(ps, I'm not a christian, just thought these figures to be interesting  )
_________________
Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
"every hour 667 muslims are converting to christianity" |
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l l
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 1625
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 10:48 am Post subject: |
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[quote][quote="CroMagnon"]
| Quote: | | 'It is clear that, in the words of one thoughtful scholar, 'perhaps one of the two or three most important events in the whole of Christian history has occurred: a complete change in the center of gravity of Christianity, so that the heartlands of the Church are no longer in Europe and North America, but in Latin America, in certain parts of Asia, and in Africa.' |
In a recent general meeting of the Jesuits (society of Jesus) a Western Jesuit commented that it was unbelievable when he surveyed the faces of the attendees at the general meeting of the society. He said almost 1/2 were non European/North American. they were from Africa, India and all parts of Asia.
As a matter of fact, an Iraqi Shi'ite convert to Christianity is now a Jesuit.
Maybe some of you maybe interested in reading this book "Catholic-Muslim relation" it may be purchased from Amazon.com. It is authored by Ovey Muhammad, SJ (society of Jesus). Notice that this Jesuit author has Mohammad as his last name. He is a convert from Islam and retained his last name after conversion nd becoming a Jesuit religious (priest).
best regards. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 4:26 am Post subject: |
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The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue, By John Alembillah Azumah
| Quote: | This new book takes a critical look at the common perception that while Christianity in Africa was responsible for many injustices and harm to the culture and society of the continent, Islam fitted comfortably into the indigenous landscape in Africa, and eschewed slavery. Azumah shows that Islam was in fact as guilty of enslaving and forcibly converting the African people as the more maligned Christianity, through an accessible and careful argument. Proving that a reassessment of Islam in Africa is necessary, this stimulating book also suggests that a more understanding dialogue between Christians and Muslims can help to move Africa into a new future of tolerance and self-awareness.
John Alembillah Azumah is presently based at the Henry Martyn Institute for Reconciliation and Understanding in Hyderabad, India. He is an expert on Islam in colonial Africa, and has published widely on this subject. |
excerpts
| Quote: | .......The primary aim of inter-religious dialogue in general and Christian--Muslim dialogue in particular istherefore is to gain a better understanding of the Other and so do away with prejudices and stereotyping with the view of enhancing better relations and peaceful co-existence in a religiously pluralistic world.
.....I have had the privilege of attending quite a few of these inter-religious conferences and gained a lot from them. One fact that is very apparent in all such inter-religious, especially Christian--Muslim gatherings and discussions, is that contemporary inter-religious relations are heavily coloured and most often revolve on the axis of various historical events. To use the words of a participant at one such Christian--Muslim consultation, `history is very much the mistress of our lives. We must take history very seriously if we are to look to the future.’
My own limited experience at Christian-Muslim dialogue consultations and conferences has led me to believe that history is more the mistress of contemporary Christian-Muslim relations than the Holy Scriptures of the respective communities, which are themselves heavily influenced and shaped by their own historical contexts.
The call to take history seriously is therefore crucial if we are to understand, appreciate and better deal with contemporary inter-religious difficulties, tensions and conflicts. Taking history seriously will also help us learn the necessary lessons from the historical encounters in charting a path for better relations in the future. This means that the documentation and interpretation of what actually happened in the past is more than just an academic exercise. In a sense it is a sacred duty!
One of the greatest benefits of the post-colonial era with regard to inter-faith relations in general and Christian--Muslim relations in particular is the emergence and dominance of literature especially from the Western--Christian side aimed at presenting Islamic beliefs and Muslim history in a more positive and sympathetic light.
Bernard Lewis, one of the most outstanding Western scholars of Islam of the Twentieth century, makes this submission in the following words: `The scholarly student of Islam -- especially if he is not a Muslim -- studies Islam as a historical phenomenon, as a civilization with a long and distinguished record of achievement. The evidence he uses is that provided by Muslims -- what they have said, written, and done in the course of the centuries.'
The approach of studying Islam through Muslim evidence therefore became the standard academic norm, especially in post-colonial Western discourse. This approach is not only obviously reasonable, but crucial in light of past experience, especially medieval Western European approaches. However, the focus on Muslim evidence needs to be critical.
The second reason why the Muslim evidence must be approached critically is that Muslims did not live and act out their history in isolation from non-Muslims. In fact, Islamic history from the very beginning has been the constant interaction between Muslim and non-Muslim groups. For instance, in the first three centuries of Muslim history in the Middle East and North Africa, Muslims lived, interacted and ruled over majority Christian communities. Similarly in India for a very long time Muslims constituted a minority ruling class over an overwhelming Hindu population.
The same is true of sub-Saharan Africa where for nearly thirteen centuries Muslims lived with and acted out their history in the midst of overwhelming non-Muslim societies. In all these situations the Islamic past cannot be adequately understood and appreciated if our attention is focused solely on Muslim evidence. The non-Muslim evidence is just as essential in any such academic research.
Unfortunately in the study of the Islamic past in post-modern Western academic discourse non-Muslim scholars became preoccupied if not obsessed with Muslim evidence in the form of texts with little or no attempt either to acknowledge and respect the diversity of opinions within the Muslim sources themselves or to take the non-Muslim point of view into consideration.
This procedure has distorted local histories with resultant negative consequences on Muslim relations with non-Muslims in many non-Western societies. Some individual scholars have, for various reasons, even gone beyond acknowledging the merits and achievements of the Islamic dispensation to romanticizing and idealizing the Islamic past.
Thus we have a situation of Western scholarship not only constructing the history of Islam in West Africa from particular versions of the Muslim evidence, but even more crucially taking sides with their proponents in vilifying opposing Muslim and non-Muslim versions. On this procedure, Muslims in Africa are categorized into `learned' and `venal scholars', `more orthodox' and `less orthodox' with representatives of the militant jihad traditions lauded and placed above representatives of the pacifist and peaceful tradition. The net result is a romantic picture of the history of Islam avoiding and sometimes denying that such issues as the jihadists' slaughter and massive enslavement of traditional African believers should be regarded in a negative light. On the basis of the distorted history, contemporary African Muslims in general and Islamic radicals in particular have come to regard and hanker for the militant jihadist tradition as the best representation of Islamic orthodoxy in Africa.
Most African Muslims have even gone a step further by blaming Africa's socio-political, economic and moral problems on Christian imperialism and recommend the adoption if not imposition of Arab-Islam as the solution. Muslim radicals have transmogrified these claims and perceptions into religio-political ideologies, which, in effect regard native Christians as agents of neo-colonialism, reject secularism on the basis that it is a product of the Christian West and hanker for the reintroduction of `the glorious Islamic past', i.e. the militant jihadist tradition. As long as these romantic perceptions continue to hold sway the absolute and xenophobic claims of Muslim radicals would continue to gain currency at the popular level. The end result would not just be a predictable wave of Muslim--non-Muslim conflicts but serious intra-Muslim conflicts. This situation is already gaining grounds in the Sudan, Nigeria and in lesser magnitudes in other parts of Africa
In chapter 1, I offer a brief survey of the uneven-handed treatment of the Western--Christian and Arab-Islamic legacies in post-colonial discourse. I then go on to re-examine critically certain key themes in the Arab-Islamic encounter with black Africa. These include the re-examination of the role of the indigenous African environment in conversions to Islam in chapter 2; the nineteenth-century jihad movements in West Africa (which have become the main source of inspiration and model examples for Muslims), the jihadists' attitude and policies towards traditional African believers and indigenous culture, the success or otherwise of jihadists' rule in chapter 3; and Muslim slavery, its religious and racial ideology, actual practice within and outside Africa and slave condition in Muslim lands. This is done in chapter 4.
It is my sincere conviction that honestly confronting and examining the jihad tradition and Muslim slavery in Africa is not in conflict with the genuine desire for inter-faith dialogue. Rather, I share Bernard Lewis's concern that historians `have a moral and professional obligation not to shirk the difficult issues and subjects that some people would place under a sort of taboo; not to submit to voluntary censorship, but to deal with these matters fairly, honestly, without apologetics, without polemic, and, of course, competently'. This is crucial because `we live in a time when great efforts have been made, and continue to be made, to falsify the record of the past and to make history a tool of propaganda; when governments, religious movements, political parties, and sectional groups of every kind are busy rewriting history as they would wish it to have been, as they would like their followers to believe that it was'. For, `those who are unwilling to confront the past will be unable to understand the present and unfit to face the future'. |
with best regards
yeezevee |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:49 am Post subject: Africa is being Christianized in many regions |
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Firstly, in 1900, outside of Ethiopia, modern day South Africa, and Coptics in Egypt, the Christian population in the rest of Africa was around 1% in 1900, yet by 2000 around 50% of all Africans are Christian. 
In nations like Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria, and others, you would have had a Muslim dominance over Christians - yet today, in Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania, the Christian religion is dominant and Islam is on the margins or being Christianized.
Even in Nigeria, the population of Christians is enormous, from only 1% in 1900 to now 45% to 50% - and in truth, apart from North Africa, it is the Christian religion which is dynamic in Africa.
Even in Asia, in nations like Indonesia, you now have at least 30 million Christians, while in Pakistan you have 4 million converts to Christianity.
Also, if you look at the size of the Christian migrant population in the Gulf, you will see that many of these nations have a Christian population of between 8% to 15% - you see, migration works both ways, and thousands of Iranian Muslims have converted to Christianity in nations like America and Australia.
Conversions to Christianity, Paganism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and so on, will always happen - so 10,000 English people may have converted to Islam, but hundreds of thousands of Muslims will have converted to being non-Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Pagan, and so on, within the United Kingdom.
REMEMBER, ISLAM ENSLAVED AFRICANS IN AFRICA FOR MORE THAN 1300 YEARS AND EVEN IN 2003 THE ARAB MUSLIMS STILL ENSLAVE AFRICANS IN NATIONS LIKE SUDAN AND MAURITANIA.
christianjihad@hotmail.com
_________________
In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Jihad J: ....REMEMBER, ISLAM ENSLAVED AFRICANS IN AFRICA FOR MORE THAN 1300 YEARS AND EVEN IN 2003 THE ARAB MUSLIMS STILL ENSLAVE AFRICANS IN NATIONS LIKE SUDAN AND MAURITANIA.... |
Dear JJ, I wonder whether you have any authentic source for the above..
with best regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Race and Slavery in the Middle East; Bernard Lewis.Oxford Univ Press 1994.
excerpts from Race and Slavery in the Middle East
| Quote: | Slavery: part1
In 1842 the British Consul General in Morocco, as part of his government's worldwide endeavor to bring about the abolition of slavery or at least the curtailment of the slave trade, made representations to the sultan of that country asking him what measures, if any, he had taken to accomplish this desirable objective. The sultan replied, in a letter expressing evident astonishment, that "the traffic in slaves is a matter on which all sects and nations have agreed from the time of the sons of Adam . . . up to this day." The sultan continued that he was "not aware of its being prohibited by the laws of any sect, and no one need ask this question, the same being manifest to both high and low and requires no more demonstration than the light of day.''
....The institution of slavery had indeed been practiced from time immemorial. It existed in all the ancient civilizations of Asia, Africa, Europe, and pre-Columbian America. It had been accepted and even endorsed by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, as well as other religions of the world....
All humans, of the true faith, were equal in the eyes of God and in the afterlife but not necessarily in the laws of man and in this world. Those not of the true faith -- whichever it was -- were in another, and in most respects an inferior, category. In this respect, the Greek perception of the barbarian and the Judeo-Christian-lslamic perception of the unbeliever coincide.
The Qur'an, like the Old and the New Testaments, assumes the existence of slavery. It regulates the practice of the institution and thus implicitly accepts it. The Prophet Muhammad and those of his Companions who could afford it themselves owned slaves; some of them acquired more by conquest. But Qur'anic legislation, subsequently confirmed and elaborated in the Holy Law, brought two major changes to ancient slavery which were to have far-reaching effects. One of these was the presumption of freedom; the other, the ban on the enslavement of free persons except in strictly defined circumstances .
The Qur'an was promulgated in Mecca and Medina in the seventh century, and the background against which Qur'anic legislation must be seen is ancient Arabia. The Arabs practiced a form of slavery, similar to that which existed in other parts of the ancient world. The Qur'an accepts the institution, though it may be noted that the word 'abd (slave) is rarely used, being more commonly replaced by some periphrasis such as ma malakat aymanukum, "that which your right hands own."
The Qur'an recognizes the basic inequality between master and slave and the rights of the former over the latter (XVI:71; XXX:28). It also recognizes concubinage (IV:3; XXIII:6; XXXIII:50-52; LXX:30). It urges, without actually commanding, kindness to the slave (IV:36; IX:60; XXIV:58) and recommends, without requiring, his liberation by purchase or manumission. The freeing of slaves is recommended both for the expiation of sins (IV:92; V:92; LVIII:3) and as an act of simple benevolence (II:177; XXIV:33; XC:13).
It exhorts masters to allow slaves to earn or purchase their own freedom. An important change from pagan, though not from Jewish or Christian, practices is that in the strictly religious sense, the believing slave is now the brother of the freeman in Islam and before God, and the superior of the free pagan or idolator (II:221). This point is emphasized and elaborated in innumerable hadlths (traditions), in which the Prophet is quoted as urging considerate and sometimes even equal treatment for slaves, denouncing cruelty, harshness, or even discourtesy, recommending the liberation of slaves, and reminding the Muslims that his apostolate was to free and slave alike.
Though slavery was maintained, the Islamic dispensation enormously improved the position of the Arabian slave, who was now no longer merely a chattel but was also a human being with a certain religious and hence a social status and with certain quasi-legal rights. |
with best regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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African Slavery and Its Denial by Blacks by Salim Muwakki From Chicago Tribune
| Quote: | Does slavery still exist in Africa? That question was rudely inserted into the national conversation last month when a ship from the West African nation of Benin reportedly was lost while ferrying child slaves. Although that story turned out to be overblown, it helped pull the cover off one of Africa's dirtiest secrets: slavery persists.
According to UNICEF estimates, there are 200,000 child slaves in West and Central Africa. Most of those forced into involuntary servitude are in economic bondage, with the boys being sold to cotton and cocoa plantations and the girls ending up as domestic workers and vulnerable to sexual exploitation.
But this kind of slavery largely is a product of poverty, experts say, and is not limited to Africa. In South Asia, for example, parents often pledge the labor of their children as payment or collateral on a debt. This is called bonded labor and Human Rights Watch estimates there are 15 million children involved in India alone.
The slave ship incident may have awakened the U.S. public to the persistence of such inhumane practices, but the discussion about slavery in Africa has been raging just beneath the surface of public discourse for at least a decade.
That conversation has focused primarily on the African nations of Mauritania and Sudan, where slavery is less a function of poverty than of tradition and war. What's more, since both countries are "Islamic republics," dominated by Arab rulers, the issue has been aggravated by religious antagonisms, race and cultural rivalries. Further controversy has centered on the lack of protest from the African-American community, especially since condemnation of the transatlantic slave trade is so pivotal to black leadership's critique of the West.
In Mauritania, the country's leadership is dominated by ethnic Berbers who are racially distinct from the indigenous
black population. In Sudan, however, the difference is mostly cultural or vaguely "ethnic."
In September, a Mauritanian national born into slavery provided a harrowing account of his life in testimony before a hearing of the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee. Moctar Teyeb explained that Mauritania's tradition of slavery goes back to the 12th Century when Arab-Berbers invaded the region and created a slave caste. "We became haratines--black Muslim slaves who faithfully served our white Arab masters, the beyadannes. Slaves exist to serve the master's every need," Teyeb told the committee. Slaves also are given as wedding gifts and traded for camels, guns or other coveted items, he said.
Teyeb, who is the outreach director of the American Anti-Slavery Group (the leading group in the anti-slavery movement), said he is a Muslim and does not blame his religion for the practice. "The values and concepts that drive the Mauritanian system of slavery are backed by a wrong version of Islam," he said.
There is a similar tradition in Sudan, but it has been aggravated by an 18-year civil war that pits the Arab-dominated
north against the traditionalist and Christian south. The UN Commission on Human Rights, Human Rights Watch and the U.S. State Department all have published reports confirming charges that slavery is practiced in the country. According to the reports, armed militia supported by the Islamic government regularly conduct raids of Christian and traditionalist enclaves in the county's southern region and force captives into servitude.
........ But increased publicity about the existence of slavery in Africa at last has provoked the African-American community to begin addressing the issue. Black leaders have been reluctant to wade into the controversy for many reasons: African-Americans tend to think of slavery solely as the transatlantic trade; there are moral ambiguities involved in criticizing independent African countries that also are the victims of propaganda seeking solely to discredit them; the pervasive influence of Islam on the black freedom movement and the reluctance to condemn fellow Muslims. But those barriers are falling and many more black groups are joining the ranks of the new abolitionists. It's about time. |
with regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:38 am Post subject: |
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It is good see that FFI members are so active, the threads quickly disappear to the background, so let me get back to this one, THE ISLAM and AFRICA, the wonderful continent, the wonderful folk never harmed any one yet they were subjugated for centuries. We have some at FFI who hate anything that is black, brown and is not white.......Any way, here is the country, Historically it seems to be closely related to the people of Indian subcontinent of earlier civilizations of human race and that is SUDAN. Last year I saw that news didn't mentioned at FFI, it is worth recalling.
17 women convicted of adultery and given 100 lashes in summary trial in Nyala
| Quote: | Between 12 and 20 November 2002 , 17 women from the village of Munwashi , 80 km north of Nyala in Darfour, Western Sudan , were convicted of adultery and each sentenced to 100 lashes of the whip.
The women were named as follows: 1. Um Alnas Mohamed Ahmed (21),
2. Hanan Abdulrahman Mohamed (19), 3. Hagir Mohamed Ahmed (18), 4. Nimat Abakr Abdelgadir (19), 5. Rasha Bahr Aldin Adam (18), 6. Fatima Abdulla Adam (20), 7. Gada Mosa Hamid (18), 8. Shamael Omar Fadl (22), 9. Hawa Yousif Abdelgadir (18), 10. Fathia Ahmed Abdulrahman (18), 11. Laila Adam Siraj (20), 12. Kaltoum Isam Adam (22), 13. Rawda Abdelgabar Mohamed (20), 14. Zahra Hassan Ali (21), 15. Gadah Abdelgabar (19), 16. Asma Mohamed Ahmed (18), 17. Zakia Altayeb,
The reason given for the charges of adultery brought against the women was that they are all unmarried, but have given birth to babies who are now between the ages of 6 – 12 months. This information was obtained by the ‘Popular Committee’ in the village of Munwashi and then passed on to the police, who arrested the women from their homes and from the marketplace in Munwashi. |
So let us look at the Sudan's history, let us look at its ROOTS.
Sudan is the largest country in the African continent.
The first thing Mohammadonians and Islamiats do when they conquer or come to power in a country is to ruin its history as much as they can and that is not new to SUDAN. Same goes to ETHIOPIA, EGYPT, IRAN, offcourse Our Land of Pure and many other countries across the continents.
This Mohammadonian logic does all this in the name Allah, in the name of Mohammad, The Arabian Nomad, whose life span in Islam was no more than 12 years. The essence of Islamic rule lies in erecting the Feudal governing structure in the name of God, Allah. One can see this all the way from the beginning. Starting from Mohammad, and his son in-law/father in-law Caliphs to this modern day as Kings, Dictators, Generals, Mullahs and Imams.
So let us look in to SUDAN, The First Mohammadonian Land in Africa after EGYPT in the next few posts..
with best regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:03 am Post subject: |
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In continuation of Sudan/ Islam, its past before Islam and Its present with Islam where the live of common people are disseminated and destroyed in the name of religion, Let us read some of its history. Off course Islam is ahead of all religions when it comes destruction of Human thinking abilities in the name of Allah, in the name of Mohammad.
Ancient Sudan: The Kingdom of Kush at Meroë (4th c. B.C. to 325 A.D.)
here are some anicent monuments of Sudan that are ruined and in rubbles. The present Sudanese Islamic Govt. or past colonial masters never cared about these wonderful monuments of Sudan's past.
courtesy of http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/um/uml.html
| Quote: | 
"Kiosk" at Naga, Sixth Cataract, South of Meroë, showing both Graeco-Roman and Egyptian stylistic influences. There developed a major cultural link from Alexandria through the Red Sea ports to which Meroë connected. This was associated with the eventual rise of the port towns to become the independent state of Axum, which contributed to the demise of Meroë in 325 A.D.
Elephant statue from the "Great Enclosure" at Musawwarat es-Sufra temple. Elephants served a military function, but the cultural influence from the South is apparently the reason for their having a religious significance, now lost to us.
Rear view of the Lion Temple, Naqa, Meroe. The Kushitic god, Apedemek, with three heads and four arms, is worshiped by the royal family, dressed in the Nubian style. |
So Islam entered Sudan as early as 670, the spread of Islam began shortly after the Prophet Muhammad's death in 632. By that time, he and his followers had converted most of Arabia's tribes and towns to Islam (literally, submission), which Muslims maintained united the individual believer, the state, and society under God's will. Islamic rulers, therefore, exercised temporal and religious authority. Islamic law , which was derived primarily from the Quran, encompassed all aspects of the lives of believers, who were called Muslims ("those who submit" to God's will).
Within a generation of Muhammad's death, Arab armies had carried Islam north and east from Arabia into North Africa. Muslims imposed political control over conquered territories in the name of the caliph (the Prophet's successor as supreme earthly leader of Islam). The Islamic armies won their first North African victory in 643 in Tripoli (in modern Libya). However, the Muslim subjugation of all of North Africa took about seventy-five years. The Arabs invaded Nubia in 642 and again in 652, when they laid siege to the city of Dunqulah and destroyed its cathedral. The Nubians put up a stout defense, however, causing the Arabs to accept an armistice and withdraw their forces.
So what did the Islam do to all these countries/people and their past ? What is their present status in the world after Islam/ Islamic feudals ruled them for the past 1400 years?.... let us continue....
with best regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:20 am Post subject: |
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So that was the Sudan's past, what is going on now in the coutryafter Mohammadonian Islam ruling the country for almost 1400 years...
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Sudan: Rights group concerned over death sentences in Darfur
Integrated Regional Information Network (IRIN)
Nairobi - International human rights groups have expressed concern over what they describe as a “sharp increase” in death sentences this year in the Darfur region of western Sudan.
The London-based human rights organisation, Amnesty International (AI), on Friday said it considered the Sudanese penal code, which is based on the Islamic [sharia] law as “cruel, inhuman and degrading”. Punishments under sharia include limb amputations and death by crucifixion. The organisation said this was inconsistent with international human rights law.
According to AI, at least 19 people have been executed in Darfur since the beginning of this year, without being given the opportunity to defend themselves, as required by international law. “Many more run the risk of losing their lives unless this alarming trend is halted,” it warned.
“This is state-sanctioned killing at its worse, with those suspected having little or no recourse to defend themselves,” AI said. “The judicial authorities in Sudan must ensure that all prisoners are guaranteed every opportunity to defend themselves, including the right of appeal to a higher tribunal, and to seek commutation of the sentence.”
According to AI, emergency courts were established in both Northern and Southern Darfur in May 2001 to deal with offences such as armed robberies, murders and the illegal possession of weapons. The courts are headed by two military judges and one civilian judge, and do not allow representation of the accused until the appeal stage of the proceedings, the rights organisation said. |
with regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:01 am Post subject: |
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we can read and see how terrible and how wide spread is the THE FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION(FGM) is at this link and
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40931&highlight=egypt+yeezevee#40931
we can also read here a bit of past Egypt with more than 5,000 years of history and archeological evidence, indeed there was a a highly developed Egyptian society that existed for much earlier than 5000 years. Egyptians take pride in their "pharaonic heritage" and in their descent from what they consider mankind's earliest civilization.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40931&highlight=egypt+yeezevee#40931
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=70278&highlight=egypt+yeezevee#70278
what is going on now after almost 1200 years of Islamic Rule with Mohammadonian Logic Mr. Mohammad made it in the name of Allah,
| Quote: | Egypt vows to battle female circumcision at international conference
Jordan Times; June 22, 2003
CAIRO (AFP) — Delegates from 28 countries across the Middle East and Africa gathered here Saturday to pledge their commitment to eradicating female circumcision, long considered a barbaric practice around the world.
Between 120 and 130 million women, mainly in Africa and the Arab world, are circumcised, while two million girls annually undergo the procedure which entails the removal of the clitoris, the conference's organisers said.
“We are determined to battle this problem to ensure a better future for our daughters,” said Egypt's first lady Suzanne Mubarak at the opening of the conference.
The gathering, dubbed the Afro-Arab Expert Consultation for the Prevention of Female Genital Mutilation, has attracted campaigners from Yemen as well as African countries like Senegal, Kenya, Mali, Burkina Faso and Chad.
Mubarak was buoyed by the support of Egypt's most senior religious leaders, Sheikh Mohammad Sayyed Tantawi, the head of Al Azhar, the highest authority in Sunni Islam, and the Patriarch of the Coptic Church Pope Shenuda III.
The pair told the conference there was no basis for female circumcision in any Christian or Muslim holy book.
Mouchira Khattab, secretary general of the National Council for Childhood and Motherhood, which is sponsored by Mubarak, described female circumsion as an “obsolete tradition, not required by religion.”
“Our key challenge is to stop the transfer of this practice to the next generation,” she said.
Long taboo, Khattab was pleased to see Egypt wrestling with the problem.
“The wall of silence has fallen. The national debate on female genital mutilation has started,” Khattab said.
Former EU Commissioner Emma Bonino praised the gathering as a “new start to express our commitment to bring about a change.”
On Wednesday, Egypt convened a two-day conference of international donors in a bid to raise millions of dollars for projects to eliminate female circumcision.
The United States, Netherlands, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Japan and many UN agencies were among those represented at the meeting organised by the United Nations Children's Fund and the Ford Foundation.
Berhane Ras Work, president of the Ethiopia-based Inter African Committee on Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and Children, hoped that at least $15 million would be pledged here for a 10-year programme.
Even though female circumcision has been banned in Egypt since 1997 and a campaign against it was launched here with 2003 named the “Year of the Girl,” most Egyptian girls still undergo the painful practice. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:07 am Post subject: Sharia, Stoning, FGM and whatelse? |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3184295.stm
A court is sitting in the northern Nigerian town of Katsina to hear the second appeal of a woman convicted of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning under the Islamic penal code of Sharia.
The wonderful contribution of Mohammadonian Islam to this Rich Oil province of Africa is nothing more than Sharia, Stoning, and FGM. I am still looking for what else Islam did to improve the live of millions of Africans across the continent.
The Twelve northern Nigerian states have introduced Sharia punishments for criminal cases in the last three years, and while five people have been sentenced to death by stoning, no sentence has yet been carried out.
We Know the case of Amina Lawal and we have a folder for her at FFI but let me recap here. This is the second time that Amina Lawal, who was sentenced in March last year, has appealed against the conviction.
Amina Lawal, 31, struck a lonely figure in Katsina's small Sharia appeal court. As the grounds for the appeal were read by her lawyer, she stared into space, while her child whimpered before finally falling asleep on her lap.
Her uncle was the only family member to accompany her to the court. Amina Lawal's lawyers are listing their 12 grounds for the appeal. Amina Lawal was found guilty of adultery in March last year after she gave birth to her daughter Wasila.
She lost her first appeal last August, and has been waiting since then for the second appeal to be heard.
Amina cried as she arrived in to the court.
Why do these BARBARIC ISLAMIC Mohammadonian Buffoons need to worry about women without husbands? If there is a crime in this, It is the Nigerian State crime for not supporting victims like Amina... All over the world ISLAM seems to attract those tribal laws that were there in the tribe, that takes the control of social structure and make human lives miserable for generations to come.
with regards
yeezevee |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:36 am Post subject: |
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High percentage of genital mutilation
New Straits Times August 25, 2003 - 15:49
| Quote: | KHARTOUM, Aug 24: The Government admitted today that up to 90 per cent of women in the country’s northern provinces suffer from genital mutilation and called for fresh steps to eradicate the practice.
International human rights bodies have said the type of female circumcision practised in Sudan is the probably worst in the world.
Health Minister Ahmed Bilal Osman made the announcement at a news conference ahead of a three-day African conference on female genital mutilation due to open here on Tuesday.
He said circumcision was "increasing by alarming proportions" to include 85 to 90 per cent of women in the predominantly Muslim northern provinces.
He gave no estimates about the numbers affected in the predominantly Christian and animist southern region, under guerilla control.
The minister blamed tradition and popular belief for the growth of the practice despite a fatwa last year stressing there was no link between Islam and female genital mutilation.
"The eradication of this practice can only be achieved by unifying popular and official efforts with those of the medical profession, the media and religious leaders," Osman said.
Technically known as infibulation, female circumcision is defined by the World Health Organisation as the "excision of part or all of the external genitalia and the stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening".
It is carried out on girls aged between seven and 11 before they reach puberty and can cause internal bleeding, urine retention and infections.
The only Arab countries where female circumcision is known to be carried out are Egypt, Sudan and Yemen, which imported the practice from Africa, where it is deemed essential to protect the honour of girls. — AFP |
I am not sure How Allaha started this., But neither our messanger not the present Mullahs help to git rid of this barbaric custom...
with bets regards
yeezevee |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:02 am Post subject: YEEZEVEE |
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YEEZEVEE - I have stated the opposite to what you stated earlier on, and your statistics contradict themselves, and note, Christianity in Nigeria is between 45% and 50%, and not 30%.
Also, since 1900 the Christian population went from being 1% in Africa, to around 50% today - therefore, which religion shows greater dynamic growth, Christianity or Islam?
With regards to Islamic slavery in Africa, and also applied to Islamic slavery of Christians in Europe, notably the Balkans and Russia, then this lasted for more than 1,000 years in Africa, and continues today in Sudan and Mauritania, while slavery in Europe lasted for around 1,000 years, and it could be stated that it only ended in 1915, for Armenians were sold into slavery in the Middle East during the Armenian genocide, while noting that Muslims did help them in modern day Lebanon and parts of Syria, however, it should be stated that Christians can be found throughout Lebanon, and account for between 10% and 15% in Syria.
So how did nations like Tanzania become de-Islamized, and how did Christians obtain power in nations like Uganda, Kenya, and countless other nations, when at one time they were massively outnumbered by Muslims?
Like I stated earlier, even in Indonesia, the most populous Muslim nation in the world, you now have between 25 million and 30 million Christians, while in parts of China Christianity is growing rapidly, and South Korean Christianity is dynamic.
The truth is that many parts of Europe have been lost to atheism and other faiths, yet the Christian faith continues to grow in Africa and Asia, notably Africa.
_________________
In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | YEEZEVEE - I have stated the opposite to what you stated earlier on, and your statistics contradict themselves, and note, Christianity in Nigeria is between 45% and 50%, and not 30%. |
dear JJ greetings and good to hear from you... I am not sure but I am under the impression that the evangelical Christianity that usually does this conversion Job is different from the Preachings of Jesus Christ. Even then But one must realize if that Christianity would have absent in Africa.. I am certain one of those Mullahs with Mohammadonian Koran/Hadith flowing from his mouth would have controlled the continent its inhabitants as the lowest form of Human life...
| Quote: | | ...The truth is that many parts of Europe have been lost to atheism and other faiths, yet the Christian faith continues to grow in Africa and Asia, notably Africa. |
I wonder whether you coud explore the reasons for this JJ, may in a different thread as here we are focussing on Islam and its contribution TO AFRICA.
with regards
yeezevee |
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