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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:15 am Post subject: If a child is born very ill, is this Buddhist karma? |
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Buddhism believes in reincarnation and karma, and how you lived your last life is meant to count towards your next life.
Therefore, how cruel for Buddhists to believe that sick children are suffering such pain because of bad karma and their evil deeds in their last life. This is barbaric and cruel, and this maybe explains the Buddhist view of life, which is based on superstition and rampant cruelty. 
For if the Buddha believed in love, then why does he punish you thousands of times? If Buddhists claim that Buddha is not a God, then who judges your thousands of lifes?
Christians and Muslims would love the child for who he/she was, yet the Buddhist evil concept would believe that this child is being punished for his/her past deeds - and of course this torture and torment could apply to thousands of lives.
Buddhism is truly barbaric in this thought concept.
So you are poor because you were bad in your past life, this is barbaric, you are in bad health because of your past life, this is barbaric - only Buddhism would view things like this.
christianjihad@hotmail.com
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In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:14 am Post subject: Re: If a child is born very ill, is this Buddhist karma? |
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| jihadjay wrote: | Buddhism believes in reincarnation and karma, and how you lived your last life is meant to count towards your next life.
Therefore, how cruel for Buddhists to believe that sick children are suffering such pain because of bad karma and their evil deeds in their last life. This is barbaric and cruel, and this maybe explains the Buddhist view of life, which is based on superstition and rampant cruelty. |
PROVE IT. I have asked you to substantiate your statement which you so far have always failed to do. What's wrong jihadjay, if you are telling the truth why is it difficult for you to bring proof here? Or you are just a pathetic liar with a caveman mentality?
| Quote: | | For if the Buddha believed in love, then why does he punish you thousands of times? If Buddhists claim that Buddha is not a God, then who judges your thousands of lifes? |
You idiot, Buddha doesn't do it! No God does it. It is called the law of nature. Can your caveman pea brain ever understand that the law of nature is impersonal and doesn't need a god to work??? Do you need an operator to make gravity work?? Of course in your hallucinated mind you see God attending the gravity machine like an attendant working on a Disneyland's ride.
| Quote: | | Christians and Muslims would love the child for who he/she was, yet the Buddhist evil concept would believe that this child is being punished for his/her past deeds - and of course this torture and torment could apply to thousands of lives. |
Buddhists love their children as they are too, caveman. What are you ranting about??? In fact in Buddhism when the result of your bad karma is taking place you should rejoice because like a debt you are paying it now so the amount is decreasing. And with good deeds you are accummulating good karma that in some ways will also work as a credit to your debts. You see Buddhists are taught to consider anything from every perspective before doing anything. They are taught to be aware all the time, aware of how their evil deeds are taking shape in their mind before they are being manifested in actuality.
Now tell us, how can you justify your God doing this very evil thing (creating a deformed baby or make it very sick) to his own creations in the first place??? Isn't your Christian God a total maniac???
Christianity does NOT teach about responsibility since you can do anything then be forgiven if you believe in Jesus or become a born again Christian, does it??? You see how dangerous any religion that teaches people not to worry about their bad deeds if they ask to God for fogiveness is? OTOH, Buddhism teaches maturity and personal responsibility, what you sow is what you reap. Think hard before you do anything bad because you are going to be accountable for anything you do, because there is no whimsical God who is going to forgive you, a god who is sick enough to find enjoyment in experimenting with his creations: make them sick or handicapped, create natural disasters, bestow them with calamities and even crimes to test them!!! Everything that's happening is God's will, is it not? Then why do you punish criminals in the first place if he is only a mediator to His grand plan that no human being will ever understand??? Why do you condemn the terrorists since God let them do what they do anyway? And isn't the fact that God let them do what they do is a TEST for all mankind, so they heed what he wants, so they love and worship him more because he's a jealous, insecure and mentally imbalanced God??? Gee, peabrains love this kind of religion because it suits their insecurity, immaturiy and unevolved brains. 
| Quote: | | Buddhism is truly barbaric in this thought concept. |
For a caveman with a shrunk brain like you, maybe. Besides, you don't seem to know what you are talking about most of the time anyway. One minute you said Buddhism teaches good stuff, the next you said it is barbaric. All I can see, you are suffering of a some kind of mental disorder that makes you talk shit all the time.
| Quote: | | So you are poor because you were bad in your past life, this is barbaric, you are in bad health because of your past life, this is barbaric - only Buddhism would view things like this. |
Caveman, Hinduism also teaches karma and reincarnation but of course you are a typical evangelist with below average intelligence to know this.
Ari
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein
Last edited by Ari on Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:26 am; edited 2 times in total |
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satyasevi
Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:03 am Post subject: Re: If a child is born very ill, is this Buddhist karma? |
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| jihadjay wrote: | Buddhism believes in reincarnation and karma, and how you lived your last life is meant to count towards your next life.
Therefore, how cruel for Buddhists to believe that sick children are suffering such pain because of bad karma and their evil deeds in their last life. This is barbaric and cruel, and this maybe explains the Buddhist view of life, which is based on superstition and rampant cruelty. :lol: :lol: :lol:
For if the Buddha believed in love, then why does he punish you thousands of times? If Buddhists claim that Buddha is not a God, then who judges your thousands of lifes? :lol: :lol:
Christians and Muslims would love the child for who he/she was, yet the Buddhist evil concept would believe that this child is being punished for his/her past deeds - and of course this torture and torment could apply to thousands of lives. :lol:
Buddhism is truly barbaric in this thought concept. :lol: :lol:
So you are poor because you were bad in your past life, this is barbaric, you are in bad health because of your past life, this is barbaric - only Buddhism would view things like this.
christianjihad@hotmail.com :lol: :lol: :lol: |
Jihadjay, you don't have any knowledge about karma. Karma means 'action' and 'action, followed by raction'. Karma has nothing to do with punishment, which is a common christian and islamic concept, the God who punishes sinners and disbeliefers.
A down to earth example of karma: you are hungry and take something to eat. To eat is karma, reaction: not hungry anymore.
This is a natural law.
To be handicapped, or to have a handicapped child is not a punishment according the law of karma. What do you do with the handicapped child, that is karma. Do you raise is with love or give it for adoption. You make the choice (free will) and have to bear the results of the choice you made.
People who accept the law of karma (Buddhsit and Hindus) don't believe in the will of God or fate. Muslims interject during their conversations with 'inshallah' (if Allah want it). We don't belief in inshallah.
Punishment (God punishes sinners and disbeliefers) is typical for monotheists.
| Quote: | It is regrettable, however, that we in the West have been trained to think of the operation of this law with fear in our hearts: "if you don't live right, God will punish you; if you do wrong, you won't go to heaven." It is difficult to conceive of any God watching each individual, ready to strike him down if he errs; or if he is good, to reward him with specially contrived favors. Man may have been "fearfully and wonderfully made," but it does not follow that he was made in fear. The curse of dogmatic belief that we were born in sin has had effects both far-reaching and devastating. Man is wonderfully made, and with the qualities of the highest potential in his nature -- qualities founded on a divine trust and not a divine fear. The Almighty Intelligence which pervades every minute atom of our universe could not have allowed its essence to manifest without a complete trust that each such atom in time would become as that from which it sprang. To limit our concepts to a Deity who would on the one hand personally supervise this whole evolutionary unfoldment, individual by individual, and on the other hand relegate us to 'sin' at birth, is to degrade the true purpose of life.
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http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/karma/ka-jal.htm |
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thinklogic
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 611
Location: India
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Therefore, how cruel for Buddhists to believe that sick children are suffering such pain because of bad karma and their evil deeds in their last life. This is barbaric and cruel, and this maybe explains the Buddhist view of life, which is based on superstition and rampant cruelty. |
If a child falls down from a height, it may break its limbs and become deformed. This is very barbaric and cruel. What sort of a law is the law of gravity if it cannot spare even little children? How cruel is it for scientists to believe that the little children are suffering from such pain because of the law of gravity!! Therefore, the law of gravity is based on superstition and cruelty, hence no civilised person should believe in it.
P.S. This is not to say that I believe in the karma principle and past lives but just to illustrate that karma is not based on judgements by any conscious divinity but is equivalent to a blind law of nature.
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Think like a child... keep an open mind. |
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satyasevi
Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Well said thinklogic. I appreciate all your contributions. |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:47 am Post subject: Ari, thank you |
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ARI - I must thank you for your kind words, and is this your Buddhist love or Hindu love speaking?
Also, I have nothing against cavemen, however, since you do, I wonder why? Or could it be that you remember your past thousands of lifes when you were a caveman, only asking, whatever, I hope you are happy!
Now, it is clear that Hindus and Buddhists believe in thousands of lifes, and it is also clear that you deem your current life being based on your countless other lifes; therefore, many Hindus and Buddhists view being poor, being born very ill, and other negative things, with being to do with your past life, don't they?
Also, what happens to a person according to Buddhism and Hinduism if you kill some one or you are a pimp? Does it mean that you will come back in your next life with no legs or arms? Or could it be, that since Buddhism claims not to judge, that you merely keep on coming back until you reach the stage of liberation after thousands of lives?
And explain what happens to a person who happens to be badly handicapped, how do they escape they cycle of rebirth? Or do they just keep on being born the same?
You can rebuke Islam and Christianity, yet at least we support logic within our own life, and we will be judged by God on the Day of Judgement; yet Buddhists and Hindus merely keep on coming back time after time, very interesting!
jihadjay
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In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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thinklogic
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 611
Location: India
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You can rebuke Islam and Christianity, yet at least we support logic within our own life, and we will be judged by God on the Day of Judgement; yet Buddhists and Hindus merely keep on coming back time after time, very interesting! |
Both logics are designed for the same purpose. To make humans behave in a good way. The Hindu/Buddhist says "behave well or else you will suffer in next life". The Christian says "behave well or you will suffer in hell for eternity after the day of judgement".
So whats the essential difference in both according to you? You think that the concept of eternal rebirths is foolish but think that the concept of eternal burning in hell is very logical. Strange!! May I know why?
You think that the concept that a child is born disabled because of bad deeds in past life is foolish but it is very logical that a child is born disabled in spite of the will of an omnipotent God. More strange!! May I again ask why??
Also, if the "eternity" of punishment is unappealing to you, then the Hindu/Buddhist rebirth concept is better since it at least offers a release from the cycle if you do enough good things. The Islam/Christian concept of eternal hell burning does not even offer that possibility since there is no option to do good things and be released from hell. So who is being eternally punished here, the Buddhist or the Christian? 
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Chuckle
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Jihadjay's simplistic line of reasoning has other applications. Such as this:
God, who is all-powerful, all-compassionate and all-knowing, is responsible for the creation of the universe and all that it contains. Thus, any creature or any thing that comes into existence, in whatever condition, is the result of God's will. So if someone is born with a handicap, it is because God wills it so. If it is God's will, and if we are true submitters to God's will, then it follows that we should not lift a finger to help those who are born handicapped. To do so would not only be going against the will of God, but also denying the punishment that God in His wisdom has decreed upon the handicap child and his parents.
In fact, in furtherance of God's will, it is our duty to inflict further punishment on those who are born hadicapped by ocstracizing them and depriving them of any means of support.
Such a belief, by whatever name you call it, inadvertently teaches its followers to be heartless and evil.
On the other hand, it could be argued that those with congenital defects were born that way not because God wanted to punish them but because He wanted to test their patience and fortitude and also those of their loved ones. In which case, we can cancel the second qualityof God mentioned in the second para above.
To descend further into absurdity:
Taking a leaf from God, who is not only all-knowing but also infallible, parents should then bring such object lessons to bear on the upbringing of their children. For instance, to instill courage and forbearance in the face of insurmountable adversity and hardship, parent should cut off their children's limbs.
It's all very absurd isn't it?
Personally, I try not to be too caught up in the why and wherefore of living. I'd rather stay focused on doing what needs to be done within the three score and ten years that I hope I have been allotted with. And that entails doing good, avoiding evil and developing my mind. Doing good not because there's a celestial reward at the end of it all; nor avoiding evil because I fear being immersed in a cauldron of molten lead for etenity; but because it is the right and proper thing to do, period. And cultivating my mind so that I know what to do and what not to do when faced with deeds that need to be done or undone
I'm done. |
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amarendra
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 709
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Its important to remember that Buddhia gives the status of the soul to human consciousness- that is, to the net result of the faculty to "think" or to the "mind stuff".Today, thoughts r said to have parallels,similarities or even identity with waves- thoughts may affect reality just like material waves do ! And these "waves" may leave impressons(my interpretation) on the "energy field" of the cosmos which continue to "live" for eternity-whence the immortality of the soul - its abstract and complex and I don't know how such a view is to be reconciled with the notion of rebirth - Buddha himself believed that "consciousness" (or impressions) left behind after a person dies, descend onto the developing brain of the child in the womb - and these same impressions,formerly left behind in the "energy field" (of course Buddha didnt use this term) of the cosmos sort of generate reactions that get attracted to the future personal life of that child. Such abstract intuitive theorizing is very common in the Hindu traqdition.
In any cae, such a view is infinitely more intellectual than notions of "judgement day" and "eternal hell-fire" and heaven and paradise and beautiful virgins awaiting the martyrs of jihad and Islam.
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:26 am Post subject: Thank you for your reply |
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Firstly, Christians do not follow the concept of God's will, for God gives people freedom, and this applies to nature. If Muslims think differently, then ask a Muslim about this.
Secondly, Muslims and Christians believe that you should account for your actions in this life; otherwise, you can do countless bad deeds time and time again, including murder, rape, and so forth.
The concept of hell is based on morality, and the God of Christians is a forgiving God if you repent with 100% sincerity.
With regards to this topic, then Islam and Christianity will reason that this happened because of nature, DNA, and so forth; yet Buddhists and Hindus will deem this to be due to past bad deeds in a different life.
Christianity and Islam, according to me, and billions of others, supports social justice and respect for humans, and we are not held back by concepts of thousands of lifes which judge you negatively or positively depending on your current plight.
Christianity and Islam brings you close to God and social justice, yet again, this is my opinion.
jihadjay
_________________
In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:27 am Post subject: Thank you for your reply |
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Firstly, Christians do not follow the concept of God's will, for God gives people freedom, and this applies to nature. If Muslims think differently, then ask a Muslim about this.
Secondly, Muslims and Christians believe that you should account for your actions in this life; otherwise, you can do countless bad deeds time and time again, including murder, rape, and so forth.
The concept of hell is based on morality, and the God of Christians is a forgiving God if you repent with 100% sincerity.
With regards to this topic, then Islam and Christianity will reason that this happened because of nature, DNA, and so forth; yet Buddhists and Hindus will deem this to be due to past bad deeds in a different life.
Christianity and Islam, according to me, and billions of others, supports social justice and respect for humans, and we are not held back by concepts of thousands of lifes which judge you negatively or positively depending on your current plight.
Christianity and Islam brings you close to God and social justice, yet again, this is my opinion.
jihadjay
_________________
In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Ari, thank you |
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| Quote: | | [quote="jihadjay"]ARI - I must thank you for your kind words, and is this your Buddhist love or Hindu love speaking? |
You are most welcome.
| Quote: | | Also, I have nothing against cavemen, however, since you do, I wonder why? Or could it be that you remember your past thousands of lifes when you were a caveman, only asking, whatever, I hope you are happy! |
I have nothing against cavemen either, but cavemen in modern men's clothing I do find tiresome.
| Quote: | | Now, it is clear that Hindus and Buddhists believe in thousands of lifes, and it is also clear that you deem your current life being based on your countless other lifes; therefore, many Hindus and Buddhists view being poor, being born very ill, and other negative things, with being to do with your past life, don't they? |
Yeah, what's wrong with that? I find it much easier to swallow and make sense of than the tale of pathetic God's will, test, and punishment. Those who accept this notion don't take it personally the way you do. It doesn't offend them to be told that their karma is what made them the way they are now. When something bad happens to me, I accept it that it is the fruit of my bad karma, either in my previous or current life. Since I accept it, it's no longer creating complication and conflict that prolongs the suffering. Compare this to monotheists who often get so disilusioned by God, wailing "Why is God doing this to me? What did I do wrong? Why is God so unfair and cruel?" Imagine how much the suffering is worsened by this anger and sense of being neglected or toyed with???
| Quote: | | Also, what happens to a person according to Buddhism and Hinduism if you kill some one or you are a pimp? Does it mean that you will come back in your next life with no legs or arms? Or could it be, that since Buddhism claims not to judge, that you merely keep on coming back until you reach the stage of liberation after thousands of lives? |
See here:
http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/bsq/budchr8.htm
| Quote: | Can Buddhists escape from their kamma? The doctrine of kamma teaches that every action (kamma) has an effect (vipaka). However this effect is not always equal to its cause. For example, if a person steals something this act will have a negative effect. If however after the theft the person feels remorse, returns the stolen article, and sincerely resolves to try to be more careful in the future, the negative effect of the theft may be mitigated. There would still be an effect although not as strong. But even if the thief does not mitigate the wrong which has been done with some good, he or she will be free from the deed after its effect comes to fruition. So according to Buddhism we can be free from our kamma while according to Christianity our sins will only be forgiven during an extremely limited period of time.
There are other ways in which the doctrine of kamma is better than the Christian ideas of forgiveness and punishment. In Buddhism while one may have to endure the negative effects of the evil one has done (which is only fair) this means that one will experience the positive effects of the good one has done as well. This is not so in Christianity. For example, a non-Christian may be honest, merciful, generous and kind yet despite this at death this person will go to hell and not receive any reward for the good he or she has done. Furthermore, according to the doctrine of kamma the effects we experience, all things being equal, are in direct proportion to their cause. Again this is not so in Christianity - even if a person is exceptionally evil during this life, eternal hell is an utterly disproportionate punishment. How much more is this so if the person is virtuous but non-Christian? Indeed the eternity of hell, and the idea that all non-Christians are condemned to it, are teachings which cast very serious doubts on the concept of a just and loving God. |
Liberation can be attained when karma, either bad or good, is no longer made. This is a very esoteric concept that can't be readily explained to a monotheistic mind. Because karma is the thing that drives rebirth, its cessation is thus reached through the cessation of karma. This can only be attained when one is enlightened, when one is no longer the slave of his own ego.
| Quote: | | And explain what happens to a person who happens to be badly handicapped, how do they escape they cycle of rebirth? Or do they just keep on being born the same? |
The same way any normal human being does; i.e. through practicing the Noble Eighfold Path: Right Understanding, Right Thought, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration. And unlike monotheists, Buddhists believe that they have the power to change their life and destiny.
| Quote: | | You can rebuke Islam and Christianity, yet at least we support logic within our own life, and we will be judged by God on the Day of Judgement; yet Buddhists and Hindus merely keep on coming back time after time, very interesting! |
Where is the logic of God judge and the Day of Judgement??? If you can go to heaven after you die, what's so strange about being reborn? Aren't you just using your selective reasoning here?
Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Thank you for your reply |
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| jihadjay wrote: | | Firstly, Christians do not follow the concept of God's will, for God gives people freedom, and this applies to nature. If Muslims think differently, then ask a Muslim about this. |
You certainly aren't very knowledgeable of your own religion. See here:
http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/bsq/budchr3.htm
| Quote: | The Problem of Free Will
For the religious life to be meaningful we must have free will, we must be able to choose between good and evil. If we do not have free will we cannot be held responsible for what we do.
According to Christians, God is all-knowing - he knows all the past, all the present and all the future. If this is so, then God must know everything we do long before we do it. This means that our whole life must be predetermined and that we act not according to the free exercise of our wills but according to our predetermined natures. If we are predetermined to be good we will be good and if we are predetermined to be evil we will be evil. We will act not according to our will or choice but according to the way God has already foreseen we will act. Although Christians will insist that we do have free will, God's omniscience simply makes this logically impossible. And that people will act only as God determines is verified in the Bible
If people are evil it is because God has chosen to make them evil (Rom 1:24-2 and caused them to disobey him (Rom 11:32). If they do not understand God's message it is because he has made their minds dull (Rom 11: and caused them to be stubborn (Rom 9:1. God prevents the Gospel from being preached in certain areas (Act 16:6-7) and he fixes long before it will happen when a person will be born and when he or she will die (Act 17:26). Those who were going to be saved were chosen by God before the beginning of time (ii Tim 1:9 Eph 1:11). If a person has faith and is thereby saved, their faith comes from God, not from any effort on their part (Eph 2:9-10). One may ask "If a person can only do what God predetermines them to do, how can God hold them responsible for their actions?" The Bible has an answer for this question.
But one of you will say to me: "If this is so, how can God find fault with anyone? For who can resist God's will?" But who are you, my friend, to answer God back? A clay pot does not ask the man who made it: "Why did you make me like this?" After all, the man who makes the pot has the right to use the clay as he wishes, and to make two pots from one lump of clay, one for special occasions and one for ordinary use. And the same is true of what God has done (Rom 9:19-22).
So apparently in Christianity a person's life and destiny are due purely to the whim of God and as mere humans we have no right to complain about what God has decided for us. The idea that we are all predetermined is quite consistent with the idea of an all-knowing God but it makes nonsense of the concept of making a' effort to do good or avoid evil. |
Why do you think the Pope bans contraception? Because it's seen as human tampering with God's will, is it not? Whatever you say, the truth is Christian/monotheistic theology is replete with contradiction and inconsistencies. It's primitive and full of crap basically. But it suits those with cavemen mentality for sure.
| Quote: | | Secondly, Muslims and Christians believe that you should account for your actions in this life; otherwise, you can do countless bad deeds time and time again, including murder, rape, and so forth. |
You said this and then went on to say this:
| Quote: | | The concept of hell is based on morality, and the God of Christians is a forgiving God if you repent with 100% sincerity. |
Pray tell how do you reconcile the two???? So where is the justice and accountability if you can be spared from the consequences of your own action as long as you ask for forgiveness with "100% sincerity", whatever the heck that means!!
| Quote: | | With regards to this topic, then Islam and Christianity will reason that this happened because of nature, DNA, and so forth; yet Buddhists and Hindus will deem this to be due to past bad deeds in a different life. |
So God doesn't have a say over nature, DNA, and so forth huh? How blasphemous you are!
| Quote: | | Christianity and Islam, according to me, and billions of others, supports social justice and respect for humans, and we are not held back by concepts of thousands of lifes which judge you negatively or positively depending on your current plight. |
The feeling of being judged is an issue you yourself have to deal with because obviously the law of nature is NOT judgemental. You can live with a God judge, why is it a problem now that karma which is resulted by YOUR OWN ACTION "judges" you (though it's really not the case because as I said karma is impersonal)? How does the concept of thousands of lives hold you back??? Do illumine. If karma and reincarnation gives people to take charge of their own destiny, what's so "holding back" about this???
| Quote: | | Christianity and Islam brings you close to God and social justice, yet again, this is my opinion. |
Obviously. You don't even kow how to reason consistently.
Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:06 am Post subject: ARI |
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ARI - anyone can manipulate language, it is very easy to do, so please keep it up, but to claim that karma exists at all is futile and based on ignorance, in which Islam and Christianity fully exploits when societies convert to either faiths.
With regards to your opinions on Christianity, then I am afraid to say that it is very limited. For Christianity certainly believes in freedom of thought, yet unlike Buddhists and Hindus who just keep on coming back all the time, both Muslims and Christians believe that we will be judged for our deeds in this life.
Remember, St. Paul supported stoning Christians to death before he converted to Christianity, and the first person to be judged by God who followed Jesus died on the cross next to him, and he was a common criminal.
Muslims and Christians understand that you should have social justice on earth now, and not merely being reborn all the time, in order to continue the cycle of poverty and privilage.
However, things like human nature, ethnicity, corruption of power, and so forth, alongside atheism, capitalism, and others, is preventing Christians and Muslims to live in accordance to our scriptures.
ARI - you mentioned your bad Karma, so say you once killed someone, then came back and after countless of lives you were forgiven, but then you killed someone again; does this mean the cycle will just continue? If so, what is the point, and isn't it allowing social injustice to take place over and over again.
Also, what happens if your karma means that you were once a woman, once a man, once a homosexual and once a lesbian? Does this mean you will feel the emotions of all four within your karma? If so, now I know why Buddhist dominated societies allow child sexual slavery? For maybe it is just part of the karma way of life, in which nothing matters, for you will keep on coming back.
Yes, and you wonder why Buddhist dominated societies are so despotic and poor.
ARI - in the past was you always a man or a woman, or was you a homosexual or lesbian, it will be interesting, and maybe you can enlighten all sexes about your reverse roles.
Karma is so funny, that only Buddhists could deem this to be a concept of meaning!!!!!!!!!!
christianjihad@hotmail.com
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In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:01 am Post subject: Re: ARI |
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| jihadjay wrote: | | ARI - anyone can manipulate language, it is very easy to do, so please keep it up, but to claim that karma exists at all is futile and based on ignorance, in which Islam and Christianity fully exploits when societies convert to either faiths. |
Karma is just another word for causality. Now, are you really that stupid to think that causality is just a fantasy? Cause and effect is a pretty rational and observable phenomenon, is it not?
| Quote: | | With regards to your opinions on Christianity, then I am afraid to say that it is very limited. For Christianity certainly believes in freedom of thought, yet unlike Buddhists and Hindus who just keep on coming back all the time, both Muslims and Christians believe that we will be judged for our deeds in this life. |
Yeah right, whatever you say. What is your definition of freedom of thought? Do you have freedom of thought when you are burnt in hell for eternity for not following Christ?? Or for not believing in God?
| Quote: | | Muslims and Christians understand that you should have social justice on earth now, and not merely being reborn all the time, in order to continue the cycle of poverty and privilage. |
What being reborn has got to do with not agreeing with social justice??? Non-sequitur, deary. Don't blame me if I keep showing you how stupid you are.
| Quote: | | However, things like human nature, ethnicity, corruption of power, and so forth, alongside atheism, capitalism, and others, is preventing Christians and Muslims to live in accordance to our scriptures. |
Yeah, right. Pretty convincing.
| Quote: | | ARI - you mentioned your bad Karma, so say you once killed someone, then came back and after countless of lives you were forgiven, but then you killed someone again; does this mean the cycle will just continue? If so, what is the point, and isn't it allowing social injustice to take place over and over again. |
What's the point? Perhaps none. Who says that life should have a point? isn't it why you people invent God and all these messy theologies about how you live happily ever after when you die??? When physicists say that action is always followed by reaction, does it have a point? Is something considered a point if it fits your selfish needs/desire???
Action is followed by reaction. There is a law of cause and effect. It's entirely up to you if you don't want to believe in it, but the fact is there is the law of cause and effect whether or not you like it. And how can you link this law with social injustice?? Do pray tell. I really don't follow your messy logic.
| Quote: | | Also, what happens if your karma means that you were once a woman, once a man, once a homosexual and once a lesbian? Does this mean you will feel the emotions of all four within your karma? |
You are babbling nonsense as usual.
| Quote: |
If so, now I know why Buddhist dominated societies allow child sexual slavery? |
Proof please. Prove it that it is worse than any other societies. Duh.
| Quote: | | For maybe it is just part of the karma way of life, in which nothing matters, for you will keep on coming back. |
red herrings.
| Quote: | | Yes, and you wonder why Buddhist dominated societies are so despotic and poor. |
You know what jihadjay, being not-so-smart is one thing, but being conniving and dishonest as well is quite repulsive. I have posted proof to your lies that Buddhists are in fact in a much better shape than Muslims, and not much worse than Christians, to which you didn't say a word. Let me show the audience again how lacking you are in both intelect and integrity. This is a post in another thread that you started not long ago:
| Quote: | Yeah, anyone who thinks Polpot was a Buddhist leading a Buddhist regime was a totally hopeless case.
This is a recent study by Philip M. Parker highlighting disparities among major religions as published in Time:
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501030310/
Religion by Numbers
Countries----Per-capita
surveyed----Income----- Literacy------Jobless
__________________________________________________
Jews 113 ------ $16,100 -------97%---------8%
Christians 218-------- 8,230-------87%--------10%
Buddhists 27------- 6,740------ 85%------- 5%
Muslims 123--------- 1,720-------51%--------15%
Sikhs 16--------- 702-------53%--------20%
Hindus 24--------- 392-------51%--------20%
It shows that Buddhists' predicament is not much worse than Christians in general, it's evern much better than Muslims. Not only that, the recent study by American scientists shows that Buddhists are happier and calmer people because of the meditation they practice:
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/05/22/buddhist.happiness.reut/
So we see here Buddhists in general have much better lives, not only physical but also mental, spiritual than most people from other religions.
So let's us all judge if Jihadjay's rant is a display of stupidity or anything of any substance.
Ari |
| Quote: | | Karma is so funny, that only Buddhists could deem this to be a concept of meaning!!!!!!!!!! |
Yeah an idiot like you thinks Judgement Day makes more sense than the observable law of cause and effect! Christ helps you revive your dead brain.
Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Here is another blow to Jihadjay. Scientists find out that karma DOES work.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s464577.htm
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Karma works
Thursday, 24 January 2002
It seems that karma really does exist. A new study has shown that acting selflessly has rewards, even from those you haven't helped.
Researchers from the Max Planck Institute for Limnology in Germany staged a series of complex computerised social games with 114 students. Their results appear in this week's Nature.
Manfred Milinski and colleagues had the students play two types of games, both using money as an incentive. Each game had six players who were kept anonymous by using pseudonyms. The history of each game was on screen so that the players could see what everyone else was doing, but there was no risk of identification after the game (or when they collected their cash).
The central issue in such games is how to sustain a public resource — the 'tragedy of the commons'. Without controls, individuals tend to use more than their share of the resource, destroying it for everyone. A common way of dealing with this is to punish the greedy people, which acts as an incentive for others to behave.
An example is the recent unsuccessful attempts to turn public transport systems in Melbourne and Perth into 'honesty' systems. People stopped buying tickets knowing they wouldn't be caught, resulting in the need to employ more and more inspectors to police the system.
The authors of the German study suggest positive reinforcement as an alternative. If people can see others performing good acts then they are more likely to behave in a publicly beneficial way.
The first game looked at the 'public good' and required the six players to decide if they were going to contribute some money to the public purse. The donated money was pooled, doubled and split by six, regardless of how many people contributed. Not surprisingly, after a few games, no-one contributed, preferring to hold onto their own cash.
The second game was more complex. Called the 'indirect reciprocity game', the players were allocated potential donor or receiver status for each game, playing each role at least once, and donors were asked if they would give to a receiver. There was no direct reciprocity — if you gave to someone, they would not be giving back. Nevertheless, players who helped others were given support later, based on their 'reputation'.
By mixing up the order of the games, the researchers could watch how expectations affected behaviour. Contributions in the public good game fell dramatically if it was played several times in a row. But when it was alternated with the indirect reciprocity game, contributions maintained a high level.
This is because players could see the history of all the other players. If a player hadn't contributed to the public purse, they were unlikely to benefit when the indirect reciprocity game was played.
So the next time you think about underpaying your share of a restaurant bill, throwing your rubbish out the car window, or using someone else's milk in the office fridge, remember — what goes around comes around.
ABC Science Online |
While any Christian doctrine has never been scientifically proven, Buddhist doctrines/methods seem the most open to intense scrutiny and verifiable of all religions. Any wonder why Einstein called it a religion of the future?
Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
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Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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And as opposed to Jihadjay's baseless and ignorant allegations, Karma provides everything that he accused it as lacking: total justice, accountability, compassion, and logic. Wonder if he can refute this, but knowing him, I'm not holding my breath though
This is just a view of Karma, not necessarily Buddhist one since even non-Buddhists/Hindus can see that karma does make sense, much more so than Christian's Judgement Day.
http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/reincarnation/karma_emogensen.htm
| Quote: | How Karma Works.
Category: Reincarnation.
Sooner or Later, You're Dancin' With the Reaper
We are Karma Chameleons. While on Earth, you are living in the worlds of reincarnation and karma. Believe it or not, karma begins & ends with love. Karma begins to propel you as Soul on a personal journey through the universe. Karma ends when you have perfected yourself in your ability to love.
So What is Karma? As Soul you are eternal. You have past, present, and future lives. To grow in love, joy, and awareness, you reincarnate into a series of physical bodies to experience different existences. You have been or will be both sexes and all races, religions, and ethnic types throughout many lifetimes
Karma Defined: Karma means that "as you sow, so also shall you reap" in this and other lifetimes until you understand the complete consequences of all your actions. Karma is the principle of cause and effect, action and reaction, total cosmic justice and personal responsibility.
The 4 Different "Flavors" of Karma:
There are 4 different types of karma that you are always working on: ·
Sanchita Karma: the accumulated result of all your actions from all your past lifetimes. This is your total cosmic debt. Every moment of every day either you are adding to it or you are reducing this cosmic debt.
Prarabdha Karma: the portion of your "sanchita" karma being worked on in the present life. If you work down your agreed upon debt in this lifetime, then more past debts surface to be worked on.
Agami Karma: the portion of actions in the present life that add to your "sanchita" karma. If you fail to work off your debt, then more debts are added to "sanchita" karma and are sent to future lives.
Kriyamana Karma: daily, instant karma created in this life that is worked off immediately. These are debts that are created and worked off - ie. you do wrong, you get caught and you spend time in jail
"Resistance is Futile": As Soul, you experience a constant cycle of births and deaths into a series of bodies until you have learned all the spiritual lessons that the totality of all experiences have to teach you. Until you have learned, you will find that "resistance" to the rules of karma is "futile".
The Rules of Karma Governing Life on Earth
#1: KARMA TEACHES BY EXPERIENCE AND NOT TO PUNISH
Although it may often "feel" like punishment, the purpose of karma is to teach not to punish. Often the way we learn "the best" is to endure the same type of suffering that we have inflicted on others. For example, I remember little of my life as a City Commander in ancient Constantinople where I killed many without mercy, often with little justification. Yet, I remember vividly the life where I repaid that karma by being slaughtered by an Indian during the Martin's Hundred massacre. Believe me, I learned the lesson of mercy in the final terrifying moments of the massacre.
#2: WE ARE ALL HERE TO LEARN LESSONS TAUGHT BY KARMA
We are all here to learn lessons as "spiritual beings in human form". These lessons are designed to help us grow into greater levels of love, joy, and awareness. They teach us to "choose love at every moment", to "forgive everyone, everything", and to "live happy". Where we do not choose love, show forgiveness, teach tolerance, or display compassion, karma intervenes to put us back on the path of these lessons. Quite simply, the only way to achieve a state of karmic balance is to be love.
#3: WE "FORGET" ABOUT KARMA TO SEE IF WE HAVE LEARNED
Before we came, we agreed to put ourself in the path of all that is we needed to learn. Once we got here, we agreed to "forget" this. The purpose of "forgetting" is to keep us from being overwhelmed by the totality of our past while making sure that we have really learned our lessons. For example, having been a General in many lifetimes, I tended to treat others in a domineering manner. In this life, I put myself into my situations where humility would have served me better than being "the dictatorial General". Only when I overcame this "problem" and learned my lesson did I understand why I had put myself into those karmic places.
#4: KARMA IS IMPERSONAL, LOGICAL, AND PREDICTABLE
Karma gives you the opportunity at every moment to become open to greater levels of love and compassion. It operates impersonally: applying to everyone, all the time, no exceptions. It is very logical: what you sow is what you reap in exact and precise measure. Karma is as predictable as the laws of gravity: what is done to you is the net result of what you have done to others.
#5: KARMA IS PERFECTLY FAIR AND CREATES TOTAL JUSTICE
For example, there are no "innocent" people in prison, they are there for a reason. If they appear "innocent" in this life, it is because they were "guilty" in a past life and "got away with it". The "innocent" feel "cheated" now because they cannot see the cause of this life was the effect of a past life when they were "guilty".
#6: KARMA MAKES US LINK OUR ACTIONS WITH THEIR RESULTS
The cause of this life is always the effect of a past life(s). The goal of karma is to ensure that we link our actions (the cause) with their results (the effect). "It is the loving God which helps each Soul develop it's highest spiritual potential through experience." It is our experience which teaches us the Law of Love.
#7: KARMA TEACHES US TOTALLY RESPONSIBILITY
The goal of karma is to give you all the experiences that you need to evolve into greater levels of love, joy, awareness, and responsibility. Karma teaches that you are totally responsible for the circumstances of your life. Karma is like "training wheels". They keep you on the straight and narrow until you have mastered your vehicle and can ride freely on your own.
#8: KARMA TEACHES US LOVE AND COMPASSION FOR ALL
"See that you are at the center of the universe... Accept all things as being part of you... When you perceive that an act done to another is done to yourself... you understand the great truth." Tolerance opens the door to compassion and love.
#9: KARMA DRIVES US TO WHOLENESS AND UNITY WITH LIFE
Karma drives us from oneness to wholeness to unity with life. Karma forces us to look beyond ourselves (oneness) so that we can see ourselves as we truly are (wholeness or Self Realization). Once we truly understand ourselves, we can see our divinity (God Realization) and our unity with all life.
#10: KARMA DRIVES US TO SERVICE AND THEN TO LOVE
Karma drives us to service. Service - co-workership with God - is the ulitmate expression of love. Love means service: service is your choice. Once you accept total responsibility for your life, you see yourself as Soul in service to life. Once you do, you become a fully realized co-worker with God.
#11: UNDERSTANDING KARMA IS THE KEY TO HARMONY
"Belief in karma ought to make the life pure, strong, serene, and glad. Only our own deeds can hinder us; only our own will can fetter us. Once let us recognize this truth, and our liberation has struck. Nature cannot enslave the Soul that by wisdom has gained power and uses both in love."
#12: FOR ANY QUESTION, LOVE IS ALWAYS THE ANSWER
Karma shows us that for any question love is the answer. "Love is our birthplace, our final refuge, and our reason for being. If we recognize that compassion and love are the ultimate destination of our journey, the heart of the universe responds." |
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:44 am Post subject: ARI |
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ARI - let us like at this wealth scale, for it is a little ridiculous in reality, isn't it?
LAOS - very poor
Vietnam - very poor
Thailand - very poor
Sri Lanka - very poor
Bhutan - very poor
Mongolia - starvation in the 1990s
Buddhists in China - GDP is very low
South Korea, only modernized because of Christianization
Japan - very secular, and this society is certainly not run by Buddhist institutions, Buddhist law, Buddhist economics, or anything.
Therefore, how did you manage to reach these figures?
Also, since nearly all Hindus reside in either India or Nepal, then of course Hindus are on the whole going to be poor, aren't they?
ARI - you may convince yourself, well, what is this, for you have been living for thousands of years, hey, maybe millions? Could this be why Buddhists do not care about much? For nothing matters, for you just keeping on coming back, and back, and back, and back!!!!!!!
christianjihad@hotmail.com
_________________
In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 976
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:54 am Post subject: Re: ARI |
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| jihadjay wrote: | ARI - let us like at this wealth scale, for it is a little ridiculous in reality, isn't it?
LAOS - very poor
Vietnam - very poor
Thailand - very poor
Sri Lanka - very poor
Bhutan - very poor
Mongolia - starvation in the 1990s
Buddhists in China - GDP is very low |
Jihadjay, do you know how to read PROVE? Do you know what PROVE means? Do you know how to PROVE something? Did you go to school where you were taught why PROOF is important to back up your claim?? Have you heard the word RESEARCH???
Jihadjay, should I keep calling you a MORON? Or would you rather do a little RESEARCH to back up your claim?
The last time I was in Thailand a few years ago, it was one of the tigers of Asia.
| Quote: | | South Korea, only modernized because of Christianization |
Really? How are you going to PROVE this? Help yourself, convince us that you are not a MORON trying to wind people up.
And what about addressing my refutation to your stupid claims. Why are the most moronic in this forum (jihadjay, Menj and Hamo-bu) applying hit and run method and keep coming back repeating the same refuted moronic statements over and over again? O I know why because they are MORONS, that's why.
Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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Ari
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
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Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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It will be fun actually to mirror Jihadjay. Let's see with the same strategy I can show it to you all how backward Christianity and Christians are.
Phillipines -- VERY POOR, PROSTITUTION, FREE-SEX AND OUT-OF-WEDLCOK PREGNANCIES ARE RAMPANT.
Ethiopia -- Starvation since the 70's
most African countries where Christians live -- VERY POOR, AIDS, EBOLA CASES ARE RAMPANT, ETHNIC AND RELIGIOUS CONFLICTS ARE ABOUND, MOSTLY RULED BY DESPOTS.
Christians in India -- GDP very low
Christians in China -- GDP very low
Christians in Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar, Srilanka -- VERY POOR
Christians in ME -- VERY POOR
East Timor -- VERY POOR
Bible Belt in America -- POORER and MORE BACKWARD than other parts of America
Christians in the Eastern Parts of Indonesia -- VERY POOR and are in conflict with Muslims.
Rwanda -- VERY BACKWARD, CATHOLIC NUNS AND PRIESTS WERE INVOLVED IN THE MASSACRE OF THE ESTIMATED 800,000 TUTSIS AND MODERATE HUTUS
Conclusion: CHRISTIANITY AND BACKWARDNESS AND VIOLENCE GO HAND IN HAND. Christianist is anti-democracy and a cause for homosexuality and phaedophilia among the Catholic priests in America. From the proof above, Christians are in much worse condition than Buddhists.
Western countries are developed because majority have converted to either Buddhism, Secularism, Atheism or Agnoticism. Europeans are the most irreligious people in general, they have learnt the hard way the Dark Ages brought by the church and pious Christians. Churches in Europe are largely empty or have only become a monument for tourist attraction.
Conclusion: Christians are backward people because Christianity is a backward religion. The only way to become progressive is for these people to convert out of Christianity as Europeans left it and became prosperous.
There you go, I rest my case.
Ari
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein |
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jihadjay
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 1079
Location: JAPAN - Kansai
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:23 am Post subject: ARI |
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ARI - firstly, the Mengistu government persecuted Christians and Muslims alike, for it was a despotic Communist nation.
India - the most educated region of India happens to be Kerala, and guess what, the Christian population in this region is relatively high, interesting!!!!!!!
ARI - Thailand, didn't the Baht collapse in 1997-1998?
Amyway, with regards to research, I have studied at the following institutions: School of Oriental and African Studies, London School of Economics, School of Slavonic and East European Studies, University College London, University of Wales, Nottingham University, and Masaryck University in Brno, Czech Republic.
Anyway, keep up your kind words and have a nice day, but hey, I just hope that you don't get thousands of flashbacks all day of your past 1,000, 2,000 or more lifes that you have had in the past. If so, well, it will be hard to relax, won't it?
christianjihad@hotmail.com
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In support of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and other minorities in India.
LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN NAGALAND - AND OPEN YOUR EYES TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN BUDDHIST COUNTRIES. |
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amarendra
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 709
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Hey Jihadjay, yu forgot to mention the foll schools u've attended:
Harvard , Univ of CA-Berkely, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge, MIT, Stanford, Sorbonne, Ecole Polytechnique, Heidelberg, Jena and of course Princeton .. :lol:
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