Faith Freedom International

abdullahnoor · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Posts: 990

There has been so much talk by Muslim haters that Islam propagates sex slavery. They talk about having sex with women captives of war.

However, Islam did not propagate this barbaric act, instead, it put a stop to it. This was discussed in the “Mary of Copt” thread, under the section “Muhammad”.

So where did these teachings originate? The answer is, The Bible! Yes, that is correct. So Muslim haters, if you condemn Islam because you thought that Islam propagated this act, what is your opinion now about Judaism and Christianity?

Numbers 31:1 - 17

Crow · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:03 am Post subject:

Personally, I dont like christianity or judism anymore than I do islam. From the little I do know about them, they too opress women among other not so pleasant attributes posess. However, because my knowlege of both these two religions is quite limited, as I have not experianced them, while I have experianced islam, I cannot really comment on them. About sex slavery in islam, if it does not propogate it as you claim, then why would have muhammad allowed it in the first place? It does not have to be encouraged to be propogated. Even the allowence of something can allow it to thrive. And is it any surprise? Some sick-minded men would take advantage of this privalage without giving it a second thought. And you can deny that these hadiths are correct (there are many listed already on this site that confirm what I am saying), then why do so many muslims today accept them? Has god allowed it's own followers to beleive in something false and go astray? Rolling Eyes

Also it seems that muslims are encouraged to follow only the quran but not the hadiths because the hadiths could easily have been changed. But wouldnt this be true of the quran also? Could there not have been one person who, by simple unintentional error, could have written something down incorrectly after muhammad's death? Seems pretty far-fetched to me that the quran we read today is the EXACT same book supposedly revealed to muhammad. I dont care how good the ancient's memories were. Wouldnt it seem, thinking non-religiously for a moment of course, that SOMEWHERE along the line someone would change something? Shocked

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Crow · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:19 am Post subject:

abdullahnoors signature: "If you say, proove the universe was created by allah, then I say, prove the universe exists by chance."

Well abdullah, I dont claim either. I know neither can be proved, so I remain neutral on the subject. I refuse to beleive anything if there is no solid evidence to support it. Even the notion that there is no creator. Smile

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doubtless · Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 1497

Judaism and Christianity have renounced slavery a long time ago. Muslim countries were made to renounce slavery under force only in 1962. Islam has not yet renounced slavery, given how the muslims behave in sudan and nigeria. Then there are muslims like Abdullanoor who are unable to say that the policy of letting old men marry children by muslims for the last 1400 years, (and which is still going on in muslim countries where the highly respected Islamic religious leaders are still marrying 9 and 10 year old because those laws and policies were based upon emulating Muhammad) are barbaric and should be stopped in this day and age!! Is there any jew or christian that claims that slavery or brutalization of children is acceptable at present? But there are "Islamic Scholars" who are giving Fatwas saying that these barbaric customs are muslims rights because Allah has given them the law, and it is only the kaffirs that want them stopped!

rand · Joined: 28 Jul 2002 Posts: 1752

Dear Abdullahnoor,

I have trouble following your logic:

1. The bible advocates slavery.
2. The bible is corrupted so that God did not advocate slavery in the real old testament.
3. Islam advocates/allows slavery.
4. Therefore slavery is okay because...????

My opinion is that the old testament were written by people thousands of years ago. If one wants to study ethics one should read books on ethics.

Best wishes,
Rand

abdullahnoor · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Posts: 990

Crow

Crow · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:27 pm Post subject:

Abdullah, dont tell me I dont know what islam teaches. I've read the quran. I was a muslim for about a year. And no matter how many times people tell me this is the right interpretation or that is the right interpretation, I dont care. If this religion was true, then god would have made it to be more understandable. From my experiance, its confusing as hell. I dont see why I would be punished for refusing to beleive something that has caused so much confusion and bad actions. You'd think god could make it's instructions a hell of a lot more understandable.

By the way, you claim islam puts a stop to vices? Look around you! What do you see in islamic countries? Muslim men cheating on their wives(even if they have multiple wives), raping, committing acts of sacralige..you'd think people would be more adherent to its beleifs if it were a true religion. No, I'm not saying adultery, rape, etc does not happen in the west. But at least in the west the women can speak up without worrying about her family's reaction! But for a religion that supposedly puts a stop to vices, there are a hell of a lot of them around!
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Crow · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:34 pm Post subject:

By the way, like I said, I've read the quran, and I have nowhere seen the practice of slavery abolished.
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rand · Joined: 28 Jul 2002 Posts: 1752

Abdullahnoor wrote:

abdullahnoor · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Posts: 990

Rand

Crow · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 2:21 pm Post subject:

(Has read the mary of copt thread before replying) So how does the allowence of coitus interuptus help get rid of slavery? So, if the woman gets pregnant, which would be against her will most likely, then she's stuck with a baby, though she may be free, whom she did not want in the first place? And what if for some reason she never got pregnant? Then she'd be forced to be a sex slave. And another thing: If muhammad's followers were so devout to his teachings, then why could he have not simply forbade slavery, sexual or otherwise, altogether? I understand it was a cultural practice, but you'd think people would understand him if they were indeed so nobel in their intentions. Take me for example: If for some reason I found out that something I enjoy doing and is acceptable, such as...hmm, lets say roleplaying, somehow hurt someone very greatly, then I'd stop doing it because it would be the right thing to do. (yes, I know rping has nothing to do with this topic, I was using it as an example, please dont preach about going off topic to me Rolling Eyes

)
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CroMagnon · Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 2112 Location: West Kafiristan

War + captured women + soldiers + rape = horrible, according to all moral opinions and religions

War + captured women + soldiers + an islamic 'marriage offer' that can't be refused + rape = horrible, according to all moral opinions and religions.... errr... ooops... well... no... not according to ALL opinions and religions...
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Crow · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:03 pm Post subject:

abdullahnoor · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Posts: 990

As I said, Muslim haters see what they want to see, and do not see what they do not want to see.

Crow

Crow · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:33 pm Post subject:

Student · Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Posts: 140

Thanks Abdullah for telling me that you were once an unbeliever, before you chose to join Islam. Sorry for my misconception about you. You see, from where I am from, most people are Muslims only because they were born into Muslim families, and were raised from young to believe that Jews and Christians are evil, and that a pedophile is really a prophet. Serious! Very very few people join the religion on their own. For those who do, many do so because it pays to be a Muslim in an Islamic country; more rights and privileges, not to mention that an Islamic court normally looks more favourably on Muslims than on non-Muslims.

Let's talk a bit now on sex-slavery, or should I say, let's talk about how Islam treats its women. I am sure you had heard of honour-killings, right? It is a practise that is very common in most parts of the Islamic world. (Fortunately, it had yet to take root in South-east Asia.) I am sure you would had read of men killing their sisters, wives or daughters who step out of line,
so as to "preserve" the family honour.

You might be asking, "So what's your point? And what does this have to do with sex-slavery??" My point is, if Muslim men cannot be trusted to show regard for the lives of women in their own family, what makes you think they will show regard for the welfare and lives of women whom they don't really know?

Sex-slavery is forbidden in Islam? Why not refer to the life of Pedophile-Romeo, Muhammad for guidance on this topic? Didn't he slew the family of a Jewish woman and forcibly kept her for himself?? Was not your prophet a slave-keeper and a slave trader??

And if Islam was that good, why had millions of Muslims left their Islamic countries for non-Islamic nations?? Not surprising, as the Islamic way of governance and its laws, the Sharia code,
is a system that is inherently lacking in justice.

Egyptian Kafir · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 474

abdullahnoor · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Posts: 990

Crow

Chanakya · Joined: 27 Dec 2002 Posts: 2637 Location: Canada

Islamic women are still slaves thanks to mohammad and Koran..they cannot venture outside without covering themselves..their religion give sanctions to their husbands to bring home other women as wives and they can have only one husband,..muslim women have no power they are slaves..they cannot travel without permission of men..they can be beaten..they have to be obedient..they are treated worst than animals..

Abudulnoor is wasting his time to defend horrible cult..

Read Ali Dashti's "23 years" it tells a sordid tale about murder and plunder carried on by Muhammad..it is despicable that any sane person will defend such a man..every time he killed and maimed somebody... God revealed a sura to defend his sick actions....this man doesn't even stop at marrying his adopted sons wife and 6 year old child..I know it was culture..whole Arabia was sick..only sick people can support this kind of sickness..

Go ahead and call me muslim hater or whatever you want but in this internet age the truth cannot be hidden..i bet people like you defend Islam because muslim men like you have lot to gain at the expense of women and they were able to abuse and control women under the guise of this cult.....

Crow · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:08 pm Post subject:

[quote="abdullahnoor"]Crow

Egyptian Kafir · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 474

So Abd is still despertately bitting on his "stages" story....

Crow · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:27 pm Post subject:

Lets see What Verse (4-24) Say:

[ Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.) ] (4-24)

Well, there you go, abdul. This obviously states that women who are married are off limits to the muslim men, unless they happen to be on the right hand. And since married women who are free, muslim or otherwise, are off-limits, what other conclusion can one rationally come up with other than the fact that this means concubines?

Therefore, muhammad DID allow sex with concubines, and did not forbid it. Nor does any verse in the quran forbid slavery, let alone sex slavery. Dont tell me I dont know what I'm talking about, I've read the quran. Nowhere does it forbid such practices. In fact it rather allows them, says "there will be no blame on you if you do this."
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