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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:43 am Post subject: Aisha revisited |
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“Of all the world’s great men none has been so much maligned as Muhammad.” - Orientalist Montgomery Watt, in his works, `Muhammad at Medina’, Oxford University Press, 1956.
Yes indeed so. Today, one of the most favourite slander and/or libel against Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), was that he is a paedophile. Non-Muslims are quick to point out that Aisha was married to the Prophet when she was only 9 years old. In this post, I will divide the topic of Aisha into two parts. The first part is about the history and rationale of Aisha’s marriage. The second part is a critique on the opinions of the attackers of the Holy Prophet (pbuh).
Before I proceed, let me announce my observation about this site. The anti-Muslims here have a high tendency to detract from the main topics of discussion. They instead get personal and attack Muslims and Islam. I am sure this thread will be no different. Feel free to criticise my works. Let us see how well you anti-Muslims will be able to keep it to the topic and theme of this thread without employing tactics like personal attacks.
Part 1
Today, we have harsh words from critics describing Muhammad (p) as a child molester. Critics mention the marriage to a very young Aisha. It must be remembered that other than Aisha, all other wives were much older. Hence critics who say he was a child molester and/or paedophile really are anchoring their argument on this one marriage to Aisha. That being the case, I am only going to discuss the issue of marriage to young Aisha here, and not touch on the marriages of other wives, at least for this particular post.
There are reasons for marrying someone so young. Traditions of the Prophet (p) needed to be transmitted to the second and third generation Muslims, long after the passing of Muhammad (p). A young wife was thus needed to fill that role. Note that ALL OTHER WIVES were much older and hence would not live long enough to hand down traditions to second and third generation Muslims. It must be remembered that there was only one other significant young narrator of tradition besides Aisha. He was Abu Huraira. However, Abu Huraira, being a man, was not the best person to narrate traditions pertaining to women, marriage and family. Aisha was the Prophet’s (p) wife. She was able to experience all the things as a spouse and a family member of the Prophet. She filled that critical position where Abu Huraira could not.
The importance and wisdom of having young narrators can be seen today. It has been recorded that Abu Huraira narrated 5,000 over hadiths while Aisha narrated over 2,000. These number of hadiths far exceed any first generation Muslims. Naturally so. Being young, they could carry on teaching the next generations. Hence more hadiths are attributed to them than the first generation Muslims, including the caliphs. Looking at the contribution of Aisha, we now are able to see the wisdom of marrying a young wife. Incidentally, notice that the Prophet (p) needed ONLY ONE young wife for this purpose. Hence, all other wives were much older. Had he the mind of a child molester and/or paedophile, he would have had many young wives, instead of middle-aged widows for other wives.
A second point to note about the allegation critics level pertaining to the marriage of Aisha, is that this allegation is new. At the time of the Prophet (p), the early Muslims NEVER saw the marriage of young Aisha as an issue. This was because puberty was seen as a sign of marriage. Had it been morally wrong to marry Aisha at such an age, surely the enemies of Islam would have brought up this issue and killed the character of the Prophet there and then. Yet we have no records of such allegations by the early enemies of Islam. Also, if the early Muslims did slander Muhammad (p) about Aisha, then surely all over the Quran there would be defence statements. But where are the defence statements against those allegations? It must be remembered that the early enemies slandered him too – that he was a mad man or was possessed. We can find defence statements in the Quran, refuting those claims Yet an allegation that he was paedophilic went unrefuted?
Third reason is that marriage serves as a bond between friends. Aisha was Abu Bakr’s daughter. The close friendship between the two was further cemented by Aisha’s marriage.
So critics today should not make a mountain out of a molehill out of Aisha’s marriage. They need to know it was the culture for a girl to be married upon puberty. They need to know that Aisha’s marriage was a non- issue among the early enemies of Islam. Most of all, it really is not nice to slander or libel anyone who is no longer around to protect his own good name.
Part 2
Anti-Muslims will jump on the opportunity to slander Muhammad (pbuh), and claim that he was a paedophile, marrying a girl so young. But let us analyse these critics’ arguments. It appears that to these critics, marrying a girl as young as Aisha is repulsive. If that is the case, then tell everyone here, what is the right age for a girl to be, before she is considered fit for marriage. More importantly, why do you quote that age?
So anyone wants to address the issue why is 9 years old too young for Aisha to be married?
Remember, I said that many of you anti-Muslims would not be able to keep this discussion within the theme of the thread. Ali Sina challenges Muslims to prove him wrong. I challenge you anti-Muslims to keep the discussion within the relevant topic.
Any takers? |
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Daryll Harber
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 476
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:05 am Post subject: |
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My question was specifically,
If that is the case, then tell everyone here, what is the right age for a girl to be, before she is considered fit for marriage. More importantly, why do you quote that age?
So anyone wants to address the issue why is 9 years old too young for Aisha to be married?
Darryl replied
First casualty just arrived! 
So what has that got to do with what you believe is the right age for a girl to be married?
Anybody else wants to try? |
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bob
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 370
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Abdullah
| Quote: | | Looking at the contribution of Aisha, we now are able to see the wisdom of marrying a young wife. Incidentally, notice that the Prophet (p) needed ONLY ONE young wife for this purpose. Hence, all other wives were much older. Had he the mind of a child molester and/or paedophile, he would have had many young wives, instead of middle-aged widows for other wives. |
Middle-aged widows for other wives?  Khadija, OK. But Hafsa a middle-aged widow? Safiya, the beautiful Jewess whom Muhammad married the day after the Muslims had killed her father and brothers? The divorced and equally beautiful ex-wife of his own adopted son Zaid a 'middle-aged widow' etc? Do you know the facts of your prophet's marital life or not?
Clearly not. About Aisha. She was NOT 9 years old when she got married to Muhammad. She was six. The marriage was consumated when she was nine and when Muhammad was in his fifties.
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"Two things fill the heart with ever renewed awe the more we meditate upon them: the starry firmament above and the moral law within." Immanuel Kant |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:37 am Post subject: |
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The whole point of my post is to show that anti-Muslim critics are making a mountain out of a molehill, as far a Aisha’s marriage was concerned. It really does not matter what age Aisha was married, or betrothed to be married.
The crux of the issue was that Aisha’s marriage was a non issue in the eyes of the early Arabs, even from the viewpoint of Muhammad’s staunchest of enemies.
The reason was because it was customary for a girl to be married at puberty. It was customary for marriage to be used to bond close families.
So the big question now is, what is it so offensive or repulsive that you find about Aisha’s marriage? Are you not using your standards to judge another person which was perfectly legitimate during his time?
Notice the main question was not answered? Here it is again.
1. At what age do you feel a girl must be, before she is able to get married?
2. More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Nobody willing to answer? Or just like the other two threads I have predicted, anti-Muslims here are going to talk about anything and everything but the main theme itself? Didn’t I predict that you people would have trouble keeping to the main theme? |
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bob
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 370
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Abdullah
| Quote: | The crux of the issue was that Aisha’s marriage was a non issue in the eyes of the early Arabs, even from the viewpoint of Muhammad’s staunchest of enemies.
The reason was because it was customary for a girl to be married at puberty. It was customary for marriage to be used to bond close families.The crux of the issue was that Aisha’s marriage was a non issue in the eyes of the early Arabs, even from the viewpoint of Muhammad’s staunchest of enemies. |
True. And Aisha herself certainly did not complain about 'child abuse'. (She had a pretty sharp tongue and if she thought she was being abused then she would have screamed blue murder!). But did Zaid, a slave of Mohammed who was released from that condition ever complain about the institution of slavery? Did Safiya ever maintain that it was wrong to be obliged to
marry the leader of a bunch of men who had killed her father and brothers? Did Miriam the Copt ever complain about being a concubine?
| Quote: | | The reason was because it was customary for a girl to be married at puberty. It was customary for marriage to be used to bond close families. |
SIX YEARS OLD, puberty?. In any case, it was customary to have slaves and concubines as well!
| Quote: | | So the big question now is, what is it so offensive or repulsive that you find about Aisha’s marriage? |
BECAUSE A SIX YEAR OLD GIRL CANNOT GIVE HER CONSENT.
| Quote: | Notice the main question was not answered? Here it is again.
1. At what age do you feel a girl must be, before she is able to get married? |
AT AN AGE AT WHICH SHE IS ABLE TO COME TO A DECISION BY HERSELF. WOULD SIXTEEN DO?
| Quote: | | 2. More importantly, why do you choose that age? |
BECAUSE IT IS AN AGE AT WHICH A GIRL WOULD BE FREE TO CHOOSE FOR HERSELF. DID AISHA DECIDE TO MARRY MUHAMMAD THROUGH HER OWN FREE WILL?
| Quote: | | Are you not using your standards to judge another person which was perfectly legitimate during his time? |
Yes I AM using MY standards. Just as I am using my standards when I say that gladiatorial combats were morally wrong (not an argument used by gladiators) or that human sacrifice is wrong (the Aztecs' sacrificial victims thought they were heading for an afterlife of eternal bliss).
The point is that the moral standards of 7th Century Arabia can no longer be defended. And that includes the moral standards of Muhammad that Muslims would like to keep frozen in some divine time warp.
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"Two things fill the heart with ever renewed awe the more we meditate upon them: the starry firmament above and the moral law within." Immanuel Kant |
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nomad
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So the big question now is, what is it so offensive or repulsive that you find about Aisha’s marriage? Are you not using your standards to judge another person which was perfectly legitimate during his time? |
By this logic, should we then remain neutral about slavery, sexism, racism, colonialism, classism, and assorted -isms from the past just for out of politeness ? It does humanity no good if we're reluctant to judge our past, and I do use the word judge in its entirety. I'm willing to judge my past binge drinking as unhealthy to mind and body, so are there anything in your past that, given hindsight and able to change history, would you affect those changes ? If the answer is yes that you would make those historical changes, then why the reluctancy to judge the actions of our collective past ?
I've never own any black slaves and neither have my ancestors, does that mean that I can't apply my standards to past Americans who've own slaves and condemn their practice as barbaric and inhumane ? Does the fact that many slaves are well treated and even loved, as much as a human being could love a pet, somehow mitigates the sins of the forced separation of black families in sales, the arbitrary whippings, the rapes of black women, the forced labors, etc ? Does the fact that the majority of past white Americans during that era do not own slave somehow warrant some mild form of racism proportionate to the total number of actual slave owners ? Does this qualifies as making a mountain out of a molehill ?
The issue isn't confined to Aisha's age, it's about our ability to grow away from and better than our immature past, of which slavery and the belief that certain people, by virtue of skin color, are naturally inferior and should be subservient to others. If you agree with the current belief that blacks are no less human than whites, then why can't I apply the same principle of enlightenment to pre-teen marriages even though I've never own any slaves or had sex with 9 yr old girls ? This also isn't about being anti-Muslim, it's about being anti-inhumane practices. If you agree that it's believable to condemn slavery without being anti-whites, then why is it so hard to believe that it's about certain behavior and not about certain people. If a modern 21st century white South Carolinian man condemns his 19th century Confederate white ancestors for importing slave labor in the cotton fields, does that means he's automagically anti-white Americans ?
| Quote: | | 1. At what age do you feel a girl must be, before she is able to get married? |
Married and sexed ? To any pedophile it's "sex by eight or else it's too late" or "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed". The question is also misleading in that there's no such thing as a "natural" age for marriage. History is full of children marriages for political alliances, by that I mean bride and groom are really children. These are marriages in paper, not in spirit. But then again, if you're not incline to believe in spiritual growth and enlightenment, then paperworks will do just fine and my opinion of what is a "marriagable" age is irrelevant, isn't it ?
| Quote: | | 2. More importantly, why do you choose that age? |
See above.
| Quote: | | The crux of the issue was that Aisha’s marriage was a non issue in the eyes of the early Arabs, even from the viewpoint of Muhammad’s staunchest of enemies. |
Of course not, since it was common practice in the past, it would be absurd to ridicule what is common. Your argument makes no point. No slave owner is going to mock his enemy for owning slaves.
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Some_Guy
Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 264
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Are you not using your standards to judge another person which was perfectly legitimate during his time? |
But Islam is ment to be an eternal message, ment for all time. If there are verses witnin it that are ment only for seventh century arabia, then the qur'an has no relivance in todays world. This compleatly contradicory to the "eternal message" that it brings forward. Likewise, Mo, the mouth peice of Allah, and the example for all man kind, did things that were legimate in his time, but today are considered illegal, morally, as well as in law, he would be in the same boat as the qur'an, ie having no relivance to the modern age what-so-ever. The fact that the marrage to Aisha was acceptable to the arabs of the seventh century is irrevelent. It is not acceptable today, and therefore, can cast serious doubt on the legitimacy of the "holy" qur'an.
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The Holy Religion of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both faith and logic. We have faith that She is pink, and we logicaly know that she is invisible because we can't see Her.
Last edited by Some_Guy on Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe a young person would be better to prserve the "true" teachings of this religion..but does that justify Muhammad marrying a nine year old girl? Puberty signifies the begginings of sexual maturity. It does not mean that the person is mentally mature and prepared for sex and married life. Also, sex that occurs so early can damage the cervix, taking away the young person's ability to have children. Also, did he really have to put such a huge responcibility on someone so young? I dont care what time period you live in...Nine years of age is not old enough for marriage and sex! It is damaging!
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Anahita
Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | So the big question now is, what is it so offensive or repulsive that you find about Aisha’s marriage? Are you not using your standards to judge another person which was perfectly legitimate during his time? |
By this logic, should we then remain neutral about slavery, sexism, racism, colonialism, classism, and assorted -isms from the past just for out of politeness ? |
You should include cannabalism too, because certain cultures considered cannabalism normal at one time too. Just because the majority of people are doing something evil during a certain time and place, it doesn't mean that evil act is OK. Cannabalism has always been and will always be evil, as is slavery, racism, classism, sexism, violence against women and kids, discrimination, and of course pedophilia. All of these things have been very prevelant at certain times in certain societies. That doesn't mean just because "everybody did it", that it wasn't wrong back then. |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Good point, Anahita  
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Abdul Haseem
Joined: 04 Sep 2002
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Location: A place where the Jews cant find me
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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STOP THIS FILTH NOW!!!! You do not understand the original Arabic and the JEW media has poisoned your mind and junk because you take drug and look at womans with uncovered thighs in public places too. First these are Hadith which are to be ignored unless they prove the point you are making at the time but if a Hadith paint Mohammed in a bad light it is to be digarded until such a time as it is convenient to prove a different point now do you understand. Let me ecplain some stuff.
Hadith says Ayesha was 6 whaen she married the Profit but in Arabic in this particular contextus it means she was 127 years old because to marry a 6 year old in not so good and Mohammed would not do that junk like the preists. Now 127 in dog years is 18 which is legal age today you see how simple it is when you understand arabic. Of course you cannot say that she was really 127 bacause that would mean she was probably dead and the Profit was not a necropheliac nether. It was the Jews that want you to believe that Mohammed did all this disgusting junk but just remember whatever you hear about the prophet there is a tortured explanation in the arabic to paint the profit in the most favorable light THIS IS FACT YOU CANNOT DENY IT!!!
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Chanakya
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 2637
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Abdul Haseem wrote: | | STOP THIS FILTH NOW!!!! You do not understand the original Arabic and the JEW media has poisoned your mind and junk because you take drug and look at womans with uncovered thighs in public places too. First these are Hadith which are to be ignored unless they prove the point you are making at the time but if a Hadith paint Mohammed in a bad light it is to be digarded until such a time as it is convenient to prove a different point now do you understand. Let me ecplain some stuff. |
--Stop abusing women and trying to cover up the truth. Why did Muhammad need 12 wives. I pity the wives who had to share one man.
| Quote: | | Hadith says Ayesha was 6 whaen she married the Profit but in Arabic in this particular contextus it means she was 127 years old because to marry a 6 year old in not so good and Mohammed would not do that junk like the preists. Now 127 in dog years is 18 which is legal age today you see how simple it is when you understand arabic. Of course you cannot say that she was really 127 bacause that would mean she was probably dead and the Profit was not a necropheliac nether. It was the Jews that want you to believe that Mohammed did all this disgusting junk but just remember whatever you hear about the prophet there is a tortured explanation in the arabic to paint the profit in the most favorable light THIS IS FACT YOU CANNOT DENY IT!!! |
You can keep on twisting the facts and use all kind of stupid logic to make it look normal. The fact is followers of Islam are still busy emulating Muhammad therefore women and female children don't matter..it is common among followers to keep four women at a time and divorce them at will. A Shiek was caught in India taking away 14 year girl to Arabia, sold to Shiekh by her muslim parents. You are still living in 7th century and i am not surprised that you admire Muhammad and his ways. |
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Abdul Haseem
Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Posts: 721
Location: A place where the Jews cant find me
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Chanakya wrote: | | Abdul Haseem wrote: | | STOP THIS FILTH NOW!!!! You do not understand the original Arabic and the JEW media has poisoned your mind and junk because you take drug and look at womans with uncovered thighs in public places too. First these are Hadith which are to be ignored unless they prove the point you are making at the time but if a Hadith paint Mohammed in a bad light it is to be digarded until such a time as it is convenient to prove a different point now do you understand. Let me ecplain some stuff. |
--Stop abusing women and trying to cover up the truth. Why did Muhammad need 12 wives. I pity the wives who had to share one man.
| Quote: | | Hadith says Ayesha was 6 whaen she married the Profit but in Arabic in this particular contextus it means she was 127 years old because to marry a 6 year old in not so good and Mohammed would not do that junk like the preists. Now 127 in dog years is 18 which is legal age today you see how simple it is when you understand arabic. Of course you cannot say that she was really 127 bacause that would mean she was probably dead and the Profit was not a necropheliac nether. It was the Jews that want you to believe that Mohammed did all this disgusting junk but just remember whatever you hear about the prophet there is a tortured explanation in the arabic to paint the profit in the most favorable light THIS IS FACT YOU CANNOT DENY IT!!! |
You can keep on twisting the facts and use all kind of stupid logic to make it look normal. The fact is followers of Islam are still busy emulating Muhammad therefore women and female children don't matter..it is common among followers to keep four women at a time and divorce them at will. A Shiek was caught in India taking away 14 year girl to Arabia, sold to Shiekh by her muslim parents. You are still living in 7th century and i am not surprised that you admire Muhammad and his ways. |
Who let this JEW in here to make personal attack on me and junk too!! Talking like hero of womans and child too but your JEW sanctions kill 500,000 Iraqis per day because they cannot even import stuff to purify water not even PENCILS!! either. ANd also you use this JEW logic to send Muslim men to the Cuba penul colony and x-ray them every day THIS IS FACT YOU CANNOT DENY IT!!! I DARE SOMEBODY DENY IT!! But this is not even enought for you JEWS you have to make lies and character assination of the Profit (PBUH) . You will see soon Allah will burn you toes for 50,000 years after the judgement day when all the Mulesters from the cathulick church are judged with the War Criminul Sharon. THIS IS ALSO FACT WHICH YOPU CANNOT DENY!!!
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By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
Franz Kafka***NOT THE JEW ONE*** |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I predicted that you people would have a tough time keeping to the theme of this thread. Is not anybody at all going to answer my question what is the right age for a girl to be married?
So by doing all this are you not reinforcing my assertion that this is just a Muslim hate site. Here is my original post alleging that.
http://forum.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?t=3221&start=0
Now compare your answers to the six-pointer I made in that first post.
Bob says Aisha was too young to consider to give self consent. But many cultures don’t seek consent from brides. Many cultures have arranged marriages and those marriages end up much longer and happier than western marriages, which have among the highest divorce rate and juvenile delinquency!
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Yes I AM using MY standards. Just as I am using my standards when I say that gladiatorial combats were morally wrong (not an argument used by gladiators) or that human sacrifice is wrong (the Aztecs' sacrificial victims thought they were heading for an afterlife of eternal bliss).
The point is that the moral standards of 7th Century Arabia can no longer be defended. And that includes the moral standards of Muhammad that Muslims would like to keep frozen in some divine time warp.
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OK, if you say so. But is that ground to call someone a paedophile? By standards of others, pre-marital sex is uncouth, animalistic and uncivilised. But westerners and some westerner wannabes from the east do it too. So does that make you people animals?
But Bob, you miss my main question, which is at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Nomad
Again you are using your standards. But even the early enemies of Muhammad never saw that an issue. So how did slavery, discrimination and so on come into the picture? Did not I say you would have problems keeping to the theme of this thread?
Notice that you have done about everything and anything except to answer at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?. You did? Then what was that magical number you gave? 18? 21? 25? 50? 81?
some guy
| Quote: |
But Islam is ment to be an eternal message, ment for all time. If there are verses witnin it that are ment only for seventh century arabia, then the qur'an has no relivance in todays world. This compleatly contradicory to the "eternal message" that it brings forward.
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Hahaha. Look at how quick anti-Muslims quote such sayings without knowing what they mean. Isn’t this what this site is all about. Misquoting and twisting teachings of Islam? The Ali Sina syndrome is catching on fast!
The eternal message is that God is One. That does not change. But Islamic practices do change. If you study Fiqh, you will notice that Islamic cultures vary from place to place and time to time.
In Arab countries at that time, it was a non-issue for a girl of Aisha’s age to be married. Notice that even the staunchest enemies of Muhammad did not make it an issue. Whether that is not a practice today, is a different and irrelevant matter!
Don’t you want to answer, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Crow
| Quote: |
Maybe a young person would be better to prserve the "true" teachings of this religion..but does that justify Muhammad marrying a nine year old girl? Puberty signifies the begginings of sexual maturity. It does not mean that the person is mentally mature and prepared for sex and married life. Also, sex that occurs so early can damage the cervix, taking away the young person's ability to have children. Also, did he really have to put such a huge responcibility on someone so young? I dont care what time period you live in...Nine years of age is not old enough for marriage and sex! It is damaging!
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So how does that address my question to you people at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Anahita,
Now how did cannibalism come into the picture? Did not I say you will have problems keeping to the theme of this thread? Did not I say that this is a Muslim hate site? Is this not flooding, like what I implied in my other thread? So are you going to answer, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Abdul Hasneem,
I would like to thank you for reinforcing that this site is a Muslim hate site and nothing else. Thank you for posting irrelevant issues to the point of ridicule. This is exactly what I predicted in my six pointer in my other thread, which I gave you the link.
Care to answer, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Chanakya
Oh, you came in too. Perhaps you can help.
At what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
To all,
So are you people still going to post anything else and everything else except the main theme of this topic? Is this all you can do? Are you anti-Muslims going to make it easy for me to prove that this is a Muslim hate site by then?
If not, then attempt this now.
At what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
If you don’t answer the above, but still keep posting what a paedophile Muhammad was, then it only reinforces my claim that this is a Muslim hate site.
Any more takers? |
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Crow
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 1098
Location: Scarborough, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Also, you claim that he could not have been a pedophile because he only married 1 minor. Well, he could have married the others to mask his pedophilia..and, of course, you yourself admit that she was his favorite wife...why do you think that was? She was a virgin and a minor...
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Chanakya
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 2637
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You will see soon Allah will burn you toes for 50,000 years after the judgement day when all the Mulesters from the cathulick church are judged with the War Criminul Sharon. THIS IS ALSO FACT WHICH YOPU CANNOT DENY!!! |
After making this kind statements you will have great difficulty in convincing anybody on this forum that Islam is a peaceful religion.
A 54 years old man should know better than marrying a child. Not only he married a child but she was his 12th wife. A 54 year old man should marry somebody at least 30 years old and one who has been married before..He has no business marrying a extremely young child. |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.mafamily.org/Statutory%20Rape%20Report.pdf
| Quote: | Legal Definition of Statutory Rape
Statutory rape laws are based on the premise that until a person reaches the age of majority, that person is legally incapable of consenting to sexual intercourse. Statutory rape was codified into English law more than 700 years ago when it became illegal “to ravish,” with or without her consent, a “maiden” under the age of 12. During the 19th century, states in this country gradually raised the age of consent, in some cases to 21. Today, the age of consent ranges from 14 to 18 years of age, although in more than half of the states the age of consent is 16.
The primary intention of statutory rape laws is to protect teenage girls and, recently, boys as well, from being sexually preyed upon by adults. By design, the laws are meant to deter and punish adults who have sex with minors. By definition, these laws are targeting non-forcible sexual activity. The age of consent in Massachusetts is 16 years old. States and counties are generally not pursuing teenage “lovers” who are close in age. Instead, law enforcement agencies typically prosecute statutory rape cases only when there is an age gap of 5 or more years between the minor and their partner. |
Would you support legislation that a 50-year-old having sex with a 9-year-old, regardless of whether they are married, be considered as a criminal act? If you have a 9-year-old relative, under what circumstances would you approve of her marrying a 50-year-old?
Best wishes,
Rand |
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veractiy_forever
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 420
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you have a 9-year-old relative, under what circumstances would you approve of her marrying a 50-year-old? |
Rand put the question directly to Mr LightSlave.
Mr AbdullahNoor, If you have very best friend of you for last 20 years in a way that you have not spent even a day without seeing each other.
When you turned 45 your friend was blessed with a daughter.
My first question to you:
1. What could be your feelings having seen a new born baby born to a very very close friend of you? Won't you be playing with her, cuddling here and feeling a fatherly love as her father (your best friend) is feeling.
2. She grows up right infront of you or in a way grow up in your hands as you are a best friend of her father. When she turns six, what would be your emotions to her? Not still fatherly ?
3. Now you have turned 51, Would you DARE ask your best friend to MARRY his Kid (6 years) to you? Tell me. WOULD YOU DARE!!!!!!!For whatever reason you have, WOULD YOU DARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!Instead of asking hisdaughter's hand for your own SON, you would ask for YOURESLE. WOULD YOU DARE DO THAT!!!!
Mr AbdullahNoor i hope you answer this question sincerely.
I can tell you about myself. My best friend has just become father and is blessed with a daughter. I have no other emotions for her other than FATHERLY and this will remain for her alteast in my whole life and thinking of how My prophet dare ask his best friend Abu Bakr to marry his kid to him, filled me full of disgust from head to toe.
Tell me how would have you felt?
VF |
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Some_Guy
Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 264
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The eternal message is that God is One. That does not change. But Islamic practices do change. If you study Fiqh, you will notice that Islamic cultures vary from place to place and time to time. |
Jee, sorry if I assumed that it was an eternal message. Sorry that I came to this conclustion only after having been told by many muslims, Imans, and Mo saying that he was the last prophet, etc. The Qur'an was the final statement of God's words, so, I guessed that this was how god wanted to people to live for all eternity. 'Course, the stoning of adulterers, the chopping of hands and feet for theft, and the way how Islam wages war has not changed at all. So, if you could please enlighten me with regards to this Fiqh thing.
| Quote: | | In Arab countries at that time, it was a non-issue for a girl of Aisha’s age to be married. Notice that even the staunchest enemies of Muhammad did not make it an issue. Whether that is not a practice today, is a different and irrelevant matter! |
No, it's complety relivent today! Mo is the human example of how Islam is to be practiced, an example of how all muslims are to live their lives, or so all the muslims that I know have led me to beleive. He's much like christ, in that respect. Notice how you cannot be a Muslim if you do not accept Mo as Allah's messenger. Why is that? Is God is One the only message? If I acknowledge only that, will I be a muslim? NO, because the first pillar of Islam to say that"there is go god but allah, and that Mohammed is his messanger." So, if the only eternal message is that god is one, why the need to acknowledge Mo as Allah's messanger?
Anyway, the point that I was trying to get across is that if Mo is an example even today, then is actions should relevent even today, or Mo and HIS teachings are nothing more then arcaine beliefs of a desert people.
Now, to answer your question, I beleive that a women, or a man, should be able to marry when he or she is eighteen, because at this age, both would have graduated from high school, and be able to get regular jobs, and be able to support a family.
Oh, by the way, it's not because of Mr, Sina that I'm anti-Islam. I haven't liked Islam since I learned that those bombers in Israel are blowing themselves up for a religion. That a religion, any religion, could convince young men and women that killing themselves and a few kafirs could get themselves into heaven, is just plain fucked up in my books.
_________________
The Holy Religion of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both faith and logic. We have faith that She is pink, and we logicaly know that she is invisible because we can't see Her. |
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Some_Guy
Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 264
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Chanakya,
Abdul Haseem is just pulling our legs. He's not a pro-Islam guy(at least I hope he's not). Don't worry, he's gotten me a few times, before I knew he was joking.
_________________
The Holy Religion of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both faith and logic. We have faith that She is pink, and we logicaly know that she is invisible because we can't see Her. |
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abdullahnoor
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 990
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ah yes, my dear Muslim haters! I see that the vultures and hyenas expect blood of a Muslim victim to be spilled. Is that the reason for your gathering here? Keep avoiding the main issue of the topic. You are doing very well showing everyone here that you have no interest to discuss issues, but to throw slime at Muslims, Islam and the prophet of Islam!
So let me repeat, any takers to answer the question –
At what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
Chanakaya
| Quote: |
A 54 years old man should know better than marrying a child. Not only he married a child but she was his 12th wife. A 54 year old man should marry somebody at least 30 years old and one who has been married before..He has no business marrying a extremely young child.
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Aisha his 12th wife? Check again.
Yes Chanakaya, you are the only brave one to have attempted to answer my question. But unfortunately you answered a question which was not quite what I asked. I asked, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
You instead said a 54 year old, should marry someone at least 30 years of age. That is actually introducing something that has never been discussed before. You are now saying because he was now 50+, he should marry someone at least 30 years of age.
Is that the real issue here? Means to say that you are not opposed to the idea of marrying a 9 year old if she has attained puberty if not for the man’s age?
If you are opposed, then why bring up the stuff about a 50+ year old man?
If you are not opposed, then I believe that we see eye to eye that as long as a girl has reached puberty, she is marriageable, as far as Arab culture was concerned 1400 years ago.
So which is your answer? I will only know what you are thinking, if you answer, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age? (Put aside if the man was 54)
So do you wish to answer? Or do you wish to talk about everything and anything else, except that question, thereby proving my six pointer in my first post that this is an anti-Islam, Muslim-hate site?
rand
You use that to apply on a 7th Century culture?
| Quote: |
Would you support legislation that a 50-year-old having sex with a 9-year-old, regardless of whether they are married, be considered as a criminal act? If you have a 9-year-old relative, under what circumstances would you approve of her marrying a 50-year-old?
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Under the same circumstance as Abu Bakr! If the Holy Prophet of Islam had asked me for my young daughter to be his wife, I would have gladly done so!
Now can you answer, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
So do you wish to answer? Or do you wish to talk about everything and anything else, except that question, thereby proving my six pointer in my first post that this is an anti-Islam, Muslim-hate site?
VF,
It is interesting that you are the only one, who has so far followed me in every thread. Unfortunately, you are also the only who have yet to answer my questions fully, after I have answered yours. Now why should I answer your questions if you don’t answer mine?
What I think is what I think. What you think is what you think. What we think or anyone else today thinks, has nothing to do with the culture of the Arabs 1400 years ago.
Well, I will answer your question, VF, in spite of you running away from mine. My answer to you is the same as to Rand. I answered sincerely. If I was with Muhammad (pbuh) and he asked me, I would have given him my daughter! I don’t know you. Why should I give my darling daughter to you? In fact, why should I give my daughter to a non-Muslim, and that, a Muslim hater too?
Now can you answer me sincerely, at what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
So do you wish to answer? Or do you wish to talk about everything and anything else, except that question, thereby proving my six pointer in my first post that this is an anti-Islam, Muslim-hate site?
To everyone who has taken part in this thread,
Any body brave enough to answer that? Or do you wish to keep avoiding that main question, and keep flooding this thread. I did predict this very behaviour of anti-Muslims. I did say that this is your tactic to slime Islam!
Why are you reinforcing my stand instead of answering my question and prove that I am the one who is wrong about this site?
So let us try again.
At what age should a girl be, before she is suited for marriage? More importantly, why do you choose that age?
So do you wish to answer? Or do you wish to talk about everything and anything else, except that question, thereby proving my six pointer in my first post that this is an anti-Islam, Muslim-hate site? |
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