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theazizjoon
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:24 pm Post subject: Persians are leaving Islam |
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Many Iranian Muslims leave Islam and convert to other religion such as Christianity & Zoroastrianism because they have had it with this religion of hatred. In Iran, Tajikistan and Afghanistan may have been only five to 800 Persian speaking Muslim-background believers in 1979, but that number has multiplied in 22 years. Estimates range from 40,000, to 70,000 with half in Iran itself. There are number of Persian churches in Asia, Australia, Canada, Austria, Denmark, England, Germany, Greece, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Turkey, Iran and In the U.S.A. in Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia, Washington and Washington D.C. and the list is growing (see the whole list: http://www.farsinet.com/icc/asia.html )
The reason why Iranians are leaving Islam is because during the past 23 years we have seen the true face of Islam. The gift of Islam in Iran was misery and death. Open your eyes and learn from Iranian people. Your dream of an Islamic estate will only bring your people more paine, hatred and misery.
Don't be fooled by the lies of your mullahs that Islam is the fastest growing religion of the world. Eliminate the death penalty for those leaving Islam and you will see that there are many more people leaving Islam than converting to Islam. Islam is only one way of life. Love, peace and forgiveness are another ways.
Love you all |
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Anahita
Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Estimates range from 40,000, to 70,000 |
No way, that number is way more than 40,000 or 70,000. Everyone I talk to inside and outside Iran rightfuly thinks Islam is the root of all evil! Christians are already campaining for converts. Every city you go to in Europe and North America there is an Iranian Church. There are also some Iranian Zoroastrian temples being opened around the world. I think they know that with the fall of IRI this plague called Islam will also leave our land. Baha'is will also start campaining soon probably. After the fall of the regime there will remain no mullah in Iran to give any fatwah against blasphemy and apostasy so it should make the transition easier. Lets just hope that these murderes leave as soon as possible and that while they remain they kill as few Iranians as possible. Personally I would like to see zoroasterism being revived in Iran, but I am also rooting for all the other religions who think they have a viable chance in Iran. As long as they preach pluralism and tolerance of our fellow human beings, why not? |
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Reincarnation
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Anahita
Be wary of Christianity. In India where there are a Chrsitian majority they are now trying to break away so they can create a Christian land.
Christianity only disguises itself as tolerant.
_________________
Acceptance (Hinduism & Humanism) is Good
Tolerance (Freethinkers) can be evil
Intolerance (Imperalism- Islam, Christainity, Communism) is pure evil |
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Anahita
Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2002 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| That is why I believe the "major" religion in any land should also be the "local" religion. And this is exactly why I believe Zoroasterism is the best alternative to Islam for Iran. Zoroastrians will not want to separate from the rest of Iran because Zoroasterism is considered an "Iranian Religion" and I think that we already celebrate most of the Zoroastrian holidays, as well as most of their cumstoms so it should not be too difficult to revive Zoroasterism. But you are right christianity is a little like Islam in that sense and we should be careful about that. |
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theazizjoon
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Anahita wrote
| Quote: | | Every city you go to in Europe and North America there is an Iranian Church. |
I agree with what you say Iranians are leaving Islam in masses and convert mostly to Christianity or Zoroastrianism.
I am not saying that either of these religions is better than the other. The fact is the Iranians are leaving Islam and these 2 religions are more peaceful than Islam. |
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theazizjoon
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Reincarnation,
| Quote: | | Be wary of Christianity. In India where there are a Christian majority they are now trying to break away so they can create a Christian land. |
Don't even thing about saying that Hinduism is any better than any other major religion ( I don't consider Islam a religion). They are all the same.
Can please back up you statement with some fact.
Even if your statement were truth, this is not because of the religion. This is because of being human. We Human beings when we have something in common we make clubs.
We Human beings want to be right and show the world how right we are. That is in the being ness of any human. |
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SkewitontheBarbie
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Can please back up you statement with some fact. |
In the Indian Northeast, freshly converted Christian tribal areas have made certain parts No-go zones for Hindus. Hindus are not even allowed to celebrate Hindu religious festivals!!!
And, these boys have been involved in seperatist activities for years, looking to create a Christianstan. Its not as if theyre gonna get anything. Kashmir aint gettin anything either.
| Quote: | | Even if your statement were truth, this is not because of the religion |
Maybe. Christianity can definitely be interpreted to produce the above results, but unlike Islam it can be interpreted to produce peaceful soceities. However, in the Indian Northeast, missionaries are choosin the old christianity.
Interesting to note that a disproportionate amount of AIDS cases are among freshly converted Christian tribals in the NE. |
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theazizjoon
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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SkewitontheBarbie,
It is interesting to see that you not that different from Muslims. All I am hearing here is hatred against Christian (or other minority )
As you can see you are also trapped in being right and how those evil Christians are converting those Hindus, some low cast and so called untouchables. This trap that you are in is not because of your religion. It is that you think that you are right. So what? You are right are happy now.
I have a lot of respect for Hinduism. As I said men always change the nature of the religion. Please read this article from the South Asia human right centre.
Violence against Christians continues:http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF25.htm
| Quote: | | In the Indian Northeast, freshly converted Christian tribal areas have made certain parts No-go zones for Hindus. Hindus are not even allowed to celebrate Hindu religious festivals!!! |
Who said so? Please give me proof of your statement. |
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SkewitontheBarbie
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like you can't accept the truth:
Its well known among Hindus whats going on in the Northeast. THe only thing is the Indian media will never report it.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/jun/23flip.htm
| Quote: | Associations met on 16 June to review the situation. Planters in the state recently submitted a memorandum to the visiting Union home secretary complaining of a "reign of terror" unleashed by militants. They were not exaggerating; there are three incidents of kidnapping reported every two days, a statistic gathered over three years. On a per capita basis, this makes Tripura the kidnapping capital of India.
The national media has ignored all this; however, it attracted the attention of the BBC, which interviewed Manik Sarkar. The chief minister stated in the midst of this conversation that the Baptists were abetting terrorist activities. Coming down to specifics, Sarkar claimed that a functionary of the church was found with gelatine sticks and other explosives.
It is close to two months since the BBC broadcast this interview. But the media as a whole chose to make just passing references to the whole issue. Even those newspapers that chose to publish Sarkar's allegations don't appear to have followed up the story. That is something which should have been done, if only to ensure that the generic word 'Christians' wasn't used; the Baptists -- strictly speaking, a small section of them -- don't speak for the whole community.
There is another interesting statistic. As I said, there are roughly 500 instances of kidnapping every year, but not a single victim has been a Christian. In other words, it is a deliberate attempt to scare the native Hindu population of the state. (For the record, all the figures were provided by the Government of Tripura.) |
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Pagan Prophet
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1320
Location: Space within your heart
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| theazizjoon wrote: |
SkewitontheBarbie,
As you can see you are also trapped in being right and how those evil Christians are converting those Hindus, some low cast and so called untouchables. This trap that you are in is not because of your religion. It is that you think that you are right. So what? You are right are happy now.
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True that wrongly interpreted Hinduism brought caste oppression but so did Christianity. Even until the Civil liberties movement in 1960's in USA, Blacks were not allowed in White Churches. Apartheid was practiced in South Africa with the full support of Church. Church failed to condemn Hitler and Nazis and even thought of allying with them to defeat communism.
Christians that are involved in proselytisation in India are telling lies to the gullible masses. If Christianity gives itself the right to be corrupted and be reformed again, why is similar attitude not extended to Hinduism? After all did Hinduism not produce a Gandhi?
You are trying to project as if there is no guilt in the Hindu society regarding caste system and there is no internal reform movements within Hinduism...and that Christianity is coming as a savior of India's downtrodden. This is a lie.
The ministers that go around to proseyltise spread false notions about Hinduism and never tell the uneducated people the black deeds of Christianity itself. Worst form of tactics including monetary allurelments are used to get converts. Superstition is peddled instead of science. Malaria is explained as 'wrath of God'...
Perhaps you are not aware that Church is funding the secessionism in India for a very long time. Look at Nagaland and Tripura. You need to travel to those lands to find proofs.
At the end of the day, Church is a corrupt political institution. And like any defunct political institution , it needs followership for its survival. Whith Church being in perennial crisis in West with its peadeophile ministers and doubting laity, they are looking toward educationally and economically most backward areas of Asia to get followership. Every possible mean is justified to get a convert.
_________________
Islam is NO way and Christ is NOT the only way. Standing for the honor of pagan cultures against the tyranny of monomaniac Judaic faiths. Cherishing the wisdom of ancient Greece, Persia , India and China. |
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SkewitontheBarbie
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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If christianity has helped India's Dalits (untouchables) then why do some christians call themselves....Dalit....christians?
Why do dalits convert to christianity.....then ask for Dalit reservations?
I could have sworn Christianity didnt discriminate against its members.
Like I always say, its stupid that Christian missionaries are trying to break Hinduism in India, because theres no way Christian missionaries will get India. here's why:
Even in the slight probablity that they break Hinduism, it will be the Muslims that take over the majority religion.
Theres 145 million Muslims, 35 million christians. What would happen if these proportions would equal 1 billion, with no Hindus left. Ha. Think Sudan. |
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Ganesh
Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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A Christian minister in Bangalore said Earth quake in Gujarat caused because there were couple of attacks against the Christians before that, the idiot as I remember didn't even opologize.
_________________
They can see but are blind in following like sheep, who are they? |
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roshan
Joined: 15 May 2002
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Anahita
Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I agree with what you say Iranians are leaving Islam in masses and convert mostly to Christianity or Zoroastrianism. |
Two of my friends (brother and sister) have converted to Judaism. They are of Jewish descent whose great grandfather was forced to convert to Islam in the last Century. Although I haven't seem them in years as they now live in Israel. But I talk to them frequently. Apparently there are a lot of other like them. Who knows maybe Iran get a huge Jewish population. It's a pitty that before the revolution there were 85,000 Jews in Iran. Now there are only 20,000. |
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theazizjoon
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:39 am Post subject: |
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SkewitontheBarbie,
SkewitontheBarbie wrote:
| Quote: | | Seems like you can't accept the truth |
You are right. I don't know what is the truth and don't event know that if the truth exists. Look at you. you are attacking christan and you are justifying Hindus action. They are both wrong or they are both right.
What is this going to give us? More hatred? Doesn't what you are saying sound like mullas talks to you?
Do you really so insecure about your religion that you think that the few that converted from Hinduism to Christianity makes your religion wrong. No it is only that for now Christianity is a better solution to reach their spirituality and that is it.
The point that I am trying to make is that no matter which religion people belonged to they are going to interpret it for their own benefit; to be right and to have power.This is the charecteristics of a human being. It is exactly like what happens (the fact) and what you interpret from your angle. For example in a car accident what happened is that 2 cars slammed into each other. When police ask the witnesses what happened then the interpretation of this event starts. Many witnesses may have many different interpretation of that one event. It depends on where they were (the angle) and the timing things happening. If you ask the derivers of those cars they will have an interpretation that is in accordance with their interest.
So coming back to the whole question about who is right and who is wrong. The fact is that they are killing each other. Somehow they interpreted from their religion that gives them the right to be violent. If you ask either of them they will both point their fingers to the other group and never take responsibility of their action. Neither in Christianity nor in Hinduism there is a mention of killing. (in Islam there is) they are both very peaceful religion if you go to the root. However the people give themselves the right to kill each other based in the interpretation that suits their interest the best.
Dear SkewitontheBarbie I know that you are a peace loving person. Don’t get into this viscous circle of hatred. You are doing exactly the same thing that you are fighting Muslims with. Love all the Muslims, but fight Islam. Most humans need to have god in their life. Give the other entire peaceful region a chance since we human being have the right to choose which ever religion we want to choose. Be a stand for peace and love. That is the only way that we can win the battle. |
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SkewitontheBarbie
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You are right. I don't know what is the truth and don't event know that if the truth exists. Look at you. you are attacking christan and you are justifying Hindus action |
Eh what action?? you mean the inaction to the murder and cleansing of Hindus in the NE by christians. Imagine if Hindus had done something near that in another part of India. Christians would be whining for years.
I was referring to the truth about the Indian NorthEast.
As for me being insecure about my religion...please.
Christians got the money right now. Its not about spirituality, its about money. |
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Pagan Prophet
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1320
Location: Space within your heart
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | theazizjoon wrote: |
No it is only that for now Christianity is a better solution to reach their spirituality and that is it. |
What exactly do you mean here? What is your point? Please clarify.
Any religion which uses monetary allurements and lies to propagate itself cannot be a 'better' solution.
Whatever is good in the person of Christ is already implicit in Indian religions. Indians do not need to look outside their tradition for any spiritual value or moral redemption. And in any case, any institution that was until recently practicing slavery and race apartheid has no right to assume superior moral tone.
Iran also does not need any foreign religion. It just needs to return to its roots. There is much spiritual and moral value in the ancient thought of Iran. Worshiping Vatican instead of Mecca would be replacement of one master by another. It would not be true freedom.
_________________
Islam is NO way and Christ is NOT the only way. Standing for the honor of pagan cultures against the tyranny of monomaniac Judaic faiths. Cherishing the wisdom of ancient Greece, Persia , India and China. |
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Pagan Prophet
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1320
Location: Space within your heart
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Why Do Christians and Muslims Seek to Convert Indians?
David Frawley writes:
Over the centuries Christians and Muslims have sent out not only missionaries but also armies to convert Hindus. Today they are probably spending more money than at any point in history to achieve this aim.
Obviously one does not seek to convert someone whose views one respects. Clearly such Christians and Muslims do not appreciate Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, its many saints, sages, yogic practices and spiritual philosophies. They do not understand Yoga and Vedanta and may be opposed to such spiritual approaches even in their own traditions. If they appreciated such knowledge they would be coming to the Hindus to learn, as many Westerners have, and not be peddling their own generally inferior doctrines instead. It only shows that they don't know what is of true spiritual value. Hindus who are taken in by them only demonstrate a greater ignorance.
This conversion mentality reflects an outward view of religion, in which religion becomes a social-political institution whose main goal is to increase in numbers. It generally inhibits the internal dimension of religion or the spiritual quest, which it is often opposed to, and which the very groups that it seeks to convert often know much more about. Such missionaries are to be pitied. Though they may have their idealism and their noble sentiments, much like politicians, they have not understood the real purpose of religion which is not to get other people to follow a belief but to awaken the Divine Self in all. They need to be taught the true missionary spirit in religion is not the missionary spirit of conversion but the yogic spirit.
_________________
Islam is NO way and Christ is NOT the only way. Standing for the honor of pagan cultures against the tyranny of monomaniac Judaic faiths. Cherishing the wisdom of ancient Greece, Persia , India and China. |
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Reincarnation
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SkewitontheBarbie wrote: |
| Quote: | | You are right. I don't know what is the truth and don't event know that if the truth exists. Look at you. you are attacking christan and you are justifying Hindus action |
Eh what action?? you mean the inaction to the murder and cleansing of Hindus in the NE by christians. Imagine if Hindus had done something near that in another part of India. Christians would be whining for years.
I was referring to the truth about the Indian NorthEast.
As for me being insecure about my religion...please.
Christians got the money right now. Its not about spirituality, its about money.
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Well sad. No Hindu ever converts to christianity because of chrsitian beliefs. They convert becAUSE OF THE LURE OF MONEY. Chrsitians come into the country and take advantage of people's financial desperation. This is called finanical extortion.
Christians have no tolerance whatsoever. They think that we Hindu's are going to hell. They feel that somehow the simple basic kindergarten religion of theirs is somehow superior. That's why they need to convert.
Why do they want to convert if all religions (except Islam) are a path to salvation any way.
If it's superior then why don't they challenge our guru's. We welcome a televised debate. But they don't. Because they know we will kick their arse when it comes to spirituality. So they work underhanded taking advantage of other people's poverty. The poverty that they created (British, French, Portugese, thse chrsitian nation robbed India of all it's wealth and made it incapable of looking after it's own). They took advantage abd robbed us Hindu's, and now they give the money back via convertion and tell us how good christianity is and how evil Hinduism is.
They're hypocrites. If you're concerned about religions getting along then you and other chrsitian's need to have a look at your conversion practices.
_________________
Acceptance (Hinduism & Humanism) is Good
Tolerance (Freethinkers) can be evil
Intolerance (Imperalism- Islam, Christainity, Communism) is pure evil |
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theazizjoon
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They're hypocrites. If you're concerned about religions getting along then you and other chrsitian's need to have a look at your conversion practices. |
Who said that I am a Christian? You see you are so blind by your faith and your faith and you hatred that you can even think clearly. Show me one statement that tells you that I am a Christian. I started that tread trying to show that Iranians are leaving Islam to Christianity and Zoroastrianism. And give many christen church to support my statement then and anahita pointed out that there are conversion to Judaism too. This makes me a christen?
All I am saying that you have the same ways of thinking as Muslim. I am saying that we should be tolerant of other religions. You are saying that Christians are doing some horrible things. I agree with you and add that Hindus are doing some bad things too. This is not about their religion this is about power. Christians want to have more power and Hindus do not want to loose power. In my opinion they are both wrong killing each other. Are you telling me that the Hindus have the right to kill? |
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SkewitontheBarbie
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Are you telling me that the Hindus have the right to kill? |
But who?? But where?
THats my question. WHERE WHERE is this persecution of christians. I never heard of no place in India where Christians arent allowed to celebrate easter, as opposed to the Christian Northeast, where Hindus are banned from celebrating their festivals. |
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SkewitontheBarbie
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Unlike other Hindus, I dont mind the fact that Christians are trying to gain converts financially. Cause right around the corner i see a lot of money flowing in, so Hindus will start doing the same.
Now these forceful conversions in the NorthEast, well i got a problem with this.
Once again, its silly that the christian missionaries are trying to break india. It will be the muslims who win if its a fight between the Muslims and the Christians. |
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