Faith Freedom International

[Pandit]

I recently recieved some email from some sikh site...that the Akal takht is seriously considering making meat a part of the sheek gurudwara langars!

Is this true???

is meat against sheekism????

from what I can tell...the meat issue has no basis in sikhism..meat is forbidden..but these people(whoever they are) are pushing for meat because they want to be considered distinct from hinduism.....

do you think that this is a good idea??? I mean is it good to specifically go
against the teachings of the guru just for spite???

what does that say about your mentality as sheeks?????
_________________
"Whoever knows me as the Unborn, the beginningless, the great Lord of all worlds-he alone sees truly and is freed from all harm"

Gita 10.1

[Unknown 404]

the SGGS states:
"Kabir, Bhangh Machlee, Surapon Jo Jo Paranee Khae, Therath Bharath Neem Keah, Thea Subahe Rustal Jahe"

Says Nank Kabir Says! Those who eat narcotics, Fish, animals, eggs, Dispite undergoing Holy Pilgramages, and Holy Water dips(ish-nan), they still go straight to HELL! (Hell-path)

[" Please explain why if eating meat is wrong since it kills animals, why the Gurus ate meat."]
Gurus never killed nor ate meat because, it would violate their Wisdom and Divinity, because GuRus state :

Jae Too Khae, Sub Mae Ik Khaeth Khudhae, Thae Thoo Keon, Murgee Marea!
If You Say, In All The One Universal Creator God Dewels/Plays, Then why you MURDER a CHICKEN!

the akaal takht are a bunch of people who make up rules & regulations to suit themselves. sikhs should follow and only follow what the guru granth sahib ji teaches us.
sikhs with any sense at all will know that meat is forbidden in sikhi as it clearly states in the sggs that it is not allowed. the above quotes are from the sggs but i cant find the others that CLEARLY state it....if anyone has more specific qoutes please post them.
thanks.

[Chanakya]

[Mr §ingh]

[Chanakya]

[Mr §ingh]

[Pandit]

This is just part of the message. This is an ongoing disussion that I am recieving......just wanted to know the thoughts from sikhs like yourselves...is what there saying true???








Drinking Alcohol or smoking is biggest Sin in Sikhism. Eating meat is no big
deal. meat is not our God or Mother. Is just another food rich in Protin
/Fat and Calesdrol.


>From: "J.S.Arshi - Gyani" <jarnail@tm.net.my>
>Reply-To: sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: 'JARNAIL SINGH ARSHI GYANI' <jarnails@streamyx.com>,
>sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [sikh_news_discussion] DE_BRAHAMANIZATION of the
>BANARASEE-Khalsa
>Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:34:59 +0800
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JARNAIL SINGH ARSHI GYANI [mailto:jarnails@streamyx.com]
>Sent: Monday, 1 December 2003 8:35 PM
>To: 'sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com'
>Subject: RE: [sikh_news_discussion] DE_BRAHAMANIZATION of the
>BANARASEE-Khalsa
>
>Gurmukh Piyario,
>Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
>
>This "beef phobia" is a sure fire sign of BIPPARWAAD. Out of a group of
>100 mixed
>"sikhs, singhs,clean shaven, amritdharies, etc etc etc" mention BEEF and
>100% will
>SHUDDER in fear. To MOST of these "sikhs" cutting shaving hair, trimming
>beards, shoulder
>length hair, smoking, drinking etc etc...is NOTHING......But just say EAT
>BEEF and they
>will SHUDDER...PAAP mahan PAAP .
>
>Recently i was talking to an aged sikh gent who regularly trims his beard ,
>drinks
>alcohol......but goes to Gurdwara every Sunday. As I was sitting next to
>him, he took out
>a bottle of nutritional supplement which his doctor had prescribed for his
>heart
>condition. He had been taking it for about 18 years.........and I
>accidentally saw the
>WORD BOVINE GELATIN on the label and told him what it meant. His JAW
>dropped all the way
>to his feet......CHEEh CHEEH he said as if trying to clean his mouth out
>with soap...WHY
>didnt anybody tell me earlier he moaned........and immediately got up to
>inquire about
>having an akhandpath at his home to atone for this Mahaan Paap........See
>the supreme
>IRONY......despite Committing the FIRST BAJJAR KURAHIT all his LIFE and
>drinking
>also....in his mind .HE was STILL a SIKH..... bUT consuming bovine
>gelatin.....made him a
>great sinner. I doubt he has slept soundly since that fateful day......
>If this ISNT
>BIPPARWAAD then what is ??
>
>
>Jarnail Singh Arshi gyani.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ranjit Singh [mailto:ranjitkaur31@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, 1 December 2003 5:29 PM
>To: sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [sikh_news_discussion] DE_BRAHAMANIZATION of the
>BANARASEE-Khalsa
>
>Sikhs who are not vegetarian should start eating Beef.
>Anyway is it against sikhism not to eat beef. I do eat beef almost everyday
>and consider
>myself a good Sikh.>
>
> >From: SINGHS@buffalostate.edu
> >Reply-To: sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [sikh_news_discussion] DE_BRAHAMANIZATION of the
> >BANARASEE-Khalsa
> >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:09:56 -0500
> >
> >My dear Veer Kirpal Singh ji,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Do you know that Akal Takhat Jathedar in the thirties S. Teja Singh
> >Akkarpuri also offered the same solution to make sure that Khalsa was
> >real Khalsa and not the Benarsee Khalsa.(I like your designation of
> >Benarsee Khalsa).He said eating pork separates us from Muslims and
> >eating beef will separate us from Hindus and no Hindu will simply grow
> >hair to usurp the Civil service reservations for Sikhs .
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Kirpal Singh Nijher [mailto:ksnijher@yahoo.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 3:45 PM
> >To: Sikh-youth@yahoogroups.com; Sikhyouth@yahoogroups.com;
> >sikh_professionals@yahoogroups.com;
> >sikh_news_and_alerts@yahoogroups.com;
> >Sikh_news@yahoogroups.com; Sikhnation@yahoogroups.com;
> >ssa_united@yahoogroups.com; sikhnetwork@yahoogroups.com;
> >Americansikh@yahoogroups.com; sikhupdates@yahoogroups.com;
> >Jakara@yahoogroups.com; sikhreview@vsnl.com; editor@tribuneindia.com;
> >sgpc@vsnl.com; info@sadapunjab.com; sikh_agenda@yahoogroups.com;
> >sikhbulletin@surewest.net; info@ajitweekly.com; editor@sikhvirsa.com;
> >mspurewal@sikhmarg.com; info@sanjhsavera.com; ksnijher@yahoo.com;
> >akj@yahoogroups.com; sikh_news_discussion@yahoogroups.com;
> >learning-zone@yahoogroups.com; Khalistan@yahoogroups.com;
> >sher-e-panjab@yahoogroups.com.uk
> >Subject: [sikh_news_discussion] DE_BRAHAMANIZATION of the
> >BANARASEE-Khalsa
> >
> >
> >
> >DE_BRAHAMANIZATION of the BANARASEE-Khalsa.
> >
> >
> >
> >Date: Maghar 15, 535 NS (Nanakshahi)
> >
> >
> >
> >�gDesperate Times in lives of Nations always call for Desperate
> >Measures.�h �c..Today the Sikh Nation is in such a state of its
> >Desperate Existence. It very desperately needs some dramatic Measure to
> >pull itself out of the BIPAR pit it is in. The great Sikh Revolution
> >started by Guru Nanak Sahib, finds itself in a very tight grip of the
> >fangs of the Brahamanical Snake. The majority of the Sikh Leadership
> >has already succumbed to the uncontrollable spread of the BIPAR VIRUS,
> >and thus they have already blown their last Bigals of surrender to the
> >BIPARS.
> >
> >
> >
> >The hordes of BIPAR �gSadh Tolaas�h are in full control of every aspect
> >of Sikh life. Their unabated spread of BIPAR Agenda of instilling fear
> >of �gsuperstitions, mechanical ritualism, and Vegetarianism into every
> >Sikh heart & soul�h, is in full swings. No part of Sikh life is free
> >from the presence of BIPARS. The Sikh Gurdwara Sahibs (presently called
> >Temples as per the BIPAR Terminology), the Sikh Historical Takhats, the
> >SGPC, the Sikh Ardas (prayer), the Sikh Anthem, the Sikh ceremonies
> >like Akhand Path turned into a (Par)-Khand Path, and the Institution
> >like �gKhanday Dee Pahul�h once an institution of freedom, has all been
> >very successfully turned into a Can of superstitional worms, by the
> >BIPAR Masters.
> >
> >
> >
> >Today, anyone who cares to look closely, will find that through the
> >successful distortion of the Sikh institution of �gKhanday dee Pahul�h
> >the BIPARS are busy in a mass scale production of their Bipar slaves,
> >that this author opts to call Banarsee-Amritdharees. The
> >Banarsee-Amritdharees are those fake Sikh who from the looks of their
> >outside garbs look like Singhs of some great Chardee-Kala, but inside
> >take inspiration from Banaras, the Brahamanical Headquarters. To them
> >Sri Anandpur Sahib as a source of inspiration does not mean anything
> >anymore, although in their lip service, they call it their place of
> >birth. Outside they decorate themselves with long open beards and
> >Kirpans, but inside they are lost in every kind of BIPAR nonsense of
> >superstitions, sanctity of mechanical ritualism, and faith in the
> >nonsense of vegetarianism, caste divisions and Chhoot-Chhaat. �cIt
> >will not be out of place to mention a personal encounter of this author
> >with such a Banarsee-Amritdharee.
> >
> >
> >
> >I live in a place where the nearest Sikh is 75 miles away. Once a very
> >dear Amritdharee friend of mine called me at work informing me that he
> >will be passing through my town in about half an hour, and will be able
> >to make a very brief stop. Elated with the joy of having the darshans
> >of a GurSikh, I immediately rushed home to receive him. Reaching home,
> >I found that I didn�f t have any sweets in my freezer to offer with the
> >Tea. There being no Sweetshops even in the vicinity of my town all I
> >could do was to fetch a set of very decent Cookies. As we sat together
> >for Tea, my friend picked up a Cookie, looked at it, and placed it back
> >in the plate, and proceeded to drink Tea by itself. On my inquiry for
> >the reason for his not eating the Cookie, he told me that he is an
> >Amritdharee, and the Cookie possibly have some eggs in it. �c..His
> >explanation gave me an uncontrollable laugh, in which I said to him
> >jokingly, �gO! Yaar Khaa Laa Cookie, Kitay Naheen Lagee Kukrhee Taray
> >Latt Maran. ( O Bud, go ahead and eat the Cookie, No Hen is going to
> >pop out of the Cookie to hit you with its leg.) However he didn�ft
> >oblige.
> >
> >
> >
> >This is an incident, which got me thinking. In my heart of hearts I
> >talked to Guru Gobind Singh Jee asking, �gGuru Sahib, Is that the
> >Banasrsee-Khalsa you had in your mind???!!!, when you started the
> >institution of Khanday Dee Pahul? �cIs this, the kind of Khalsa you
> >expect to be capable of standing up against tyranny? �c.The Khalsa who,
> >have gotten itself castrated to such an extent that he is scared even
> >from an Imaginary Kukrhee???!!! �c.Is this your Khalsa?, who, wears a
> >2�h long LING (Lord Shiva�fs Phallic) around his neck or in the Gatra,
> >and opts to call this LING a Kirpan???!!! �c.and thus the stream of
> >questions continued.
> >
> >
> >
> >Next, as always, with his Grace, the Guru broke the chain of questions
> >with his ONE WORD answer; �c�c�gBRAHAMANWAAD.�h
> >
> >
> >
> >That is the answer that popped out as the ROOT cause for the entire
> >desperate situation the Khalsa Panth has pushed itself into. The Guru
> >Sahib�fs sentiments described in the lines, �gJab Ih Gahay Bipran Kee
> >Reet, Main Naa Karon in Kee Parteet (If the Khalsa adopts the Ways of
> >the Brahamin, I will not even recognize him)�h started making more and
> >more sense.
> >
> >
> >
> >It is a universal truth that 90% solution of any problem is the
> >recognition of the problem itself. Once the ROOT cause of any problem
> >is recognized then finding the solution is generally a piece of Cake.
> >�c.Yes, today through the un-controllable spread of the BIPAR virus to
> >every drop of the Sikh blood, the high-spirited Keshgarhee-Khalsa Panth
> >of yester years, finds itself completely BRAHAMANIZED and converted
> >into a deplorable gang of Banarsee-Khalsa. �c.Thus through its march of
> >the �gBipran Kee Reet�h, the present day Khalsa finds itself trembling
> >at the fear of even an Imaginary Kukrhee.
> >
> >
> >
> >With that deplorable state of the Khalsa in mind, the question is; How
> >do you arrest, �c..Nay, reverse such a flood of massive scale
> >�gBrahamnization�h caused by the BIPAR VIRUS? �c..The answer is;
> >Introduce into the Sikh practices, a ceremony called the
> >�gDE_BRAHAMANIZATION�h Sanskar.
> >
> >
> >
> >In the DE_BRAHAMANIZATION Sanskar, make every so-called
> >Amritdharee-Sikh in every Gurdwara Sahib, to line up in a Pangat.
> >Then, let a set of real Keshgarhee_Khalsas put a couple of spoons of
> >Meat soup (preferably beef) into every mouth, as a medicine for
> >De_Brahamanization. �c . And then repeat this ceremony every quarter.> >
> >
> >
> >Any so-called Amritdharee Sikh, who refuses to go through the
> >De_Brahamanization Sanskar should be debarred from holding any office
> >of leadership in any Gurdwara Sahib or Sikh organization. Because, no
> >matter how much bookish knowledge or proficiency in ritualism such a
> >person has, he/she still is a BIPAR at heart. �cAnd, no BIPAR has the
> >capacity to lead the Khalsa Panth in the right direction.
> >
> >
> >
> >The real Keshgarhee-Amritdharees will/should not have any problem with
> >this ceremony of �gDe_Brahamnization�h. It will only be the fake
> >Banarsee-Amritdharees who will throw lots of uncontrollable Tantrums
> >against such an idea. �c..Well, that is precisely the kind of
> >affliction this ceremony is designed to cure.
> >
> >
> >
> >Furthermore, this ceremony of DE-BRAHAMNIZATION does not affect even a
> >tiny bit, the dietary habits of those GurSikhs who are �gVegetarians by
> >CHOICE�h.
> >While, it hits pretty hard only those, who have turned vegetarians by
> >the �gFEAR of the BIPARS.�h
> >
> >
> >
> >Only time will tell, �c.. if through the introduction of the ceremony
> >of �gDE_BRAHAMANIZATION�h, we the Sikhs display enough guts, courage,
> >understanding and vision to pull out our Banarsee-Amritdharee brothers
> >and sisters from the fangs of the Brahamanical Snake they are in.
> >�c�cOr keeping the STATUS QUO, opt to commit the STUPIDITY of joining
> >them, in their BIPAR pit by turning ourselves into Pucca BRAHAMINS. .
> >�c�c Choice is our to make. �c..Do we want to convert Sikhism into a
> >Jatha of Banarasee-Sikhs, trembling in unison, with the fear of some
> >Imaginary Kukrhees???!!!.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kirpal Singh, USA
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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_________________
"Whoever knows me as the Unborn, the beginningless, the great Lord of all worlds-he alone sees truly and is freed from all harm"

Gita 10.1

[Unknown 404]

The general directive of Guru Nanak with regard to food is: "Do not take that food which effects health, causes pain or suffering to the body or produces evil thoughts in the mind." (p. 16). There is a close connection between body and the mind so that the food that we eat affects both of them. Guru Ramdas has mentioned the three qualities created by God. These are Rajas(Activity or motion), Tamas (Resistance or darkness), Satav(Harmony or goodness). He says:

"God Himself created the three qualities and increased our love for worldly valuables" (p.1237).

Food can also be categorized under these three qualities. For example, fresh and natural food is an example of Satav, fried and spicy food is of Rajas, while fermented, decomposed, preserve or frozen food is a kind of Tamas. If one eats heavy or spicy food, one's stomach easily gets upset. Over-eating and heavy food should be avoided. Simple and natural food is best for healthy living.

There are references to matter of food in the Adi Granth. If one believes that all creation is a manifestation of God, the destruction of any living being or micro-organism is an infringement of the natural right to live, Kabir says:

"If you say that God resides in all, why do you kill a hen?" (A.G., p.1375)

He says:

"It is foolish to kill animals by cruelty and call it sanctified food." (p. 1375)

"You kill life and call it an act of religion. Then what is irreligion?" (p. 1103).

Though unnecessary killing or causing suffering to animals and birds for the sake of providing human food is to be avoided, vegetarianism should not be turned into a phobia or dogma.

Undoubtedly, animal food is largely used for satisfying the human palate. To eat meat only for the satisfaction of one's taste or appetite is not good. Kabir says, "You keep fasts in order to become acceptable to God, but kill a living animal for your relish." (p.483). This refers to the eating of meat by Muslims after breaking the religious fast.
The Gurus did not like the taboo on meat when more important things like control over desires or passion were ignored. It is far more important to kill the evil that pollutes the mind rather than abstain from meat. Impurities of the mind should be removed first, before labelling some food as pure and the other impure.

There is a passage in the Guru Granth Sahib which indicates the futility of the controversy regarding vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. It is said that when the Brahmins of Kurukshetra advocated the need and benefit of vegetarian food, Guru Nanak replied to them as under:


"Only the foolish quarrel over the desirability of eating flesh.
They are oblivious of true knowledge and meditation.
What is really flesh?
What is really vegetable-food?
Which one of is sin-infested?
They do not differentiate between good food and that which leads to sin....
Men are born of a mother's and father's blood yet they do not eat fish or meat ...
Meat is mentioned in the Puranas and the Katebas:
It has been used in Yajnas on marriages and festive occasions". (p.1290).

Equally fruitless is the debate on the question whether fish or eggs are included in non-vegetarian diet or not.
The Gurus neither advocated meat nor banned its use. They left it to the choice of the individual. There are passages against meat, in the Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Gobind Singh however prohibited for the Khalsa the use of Halal or Kutha meat prepared in the Muslim ritualistic way. It may be noted that by tradition, meat is never served in the Guru Ka Langar (Free Kitchen).

Vegetarianism by itself cannot confer spiritual merit or lead to the door of salvation. Spiritual achievement depends on Sadhana or religious discipline. However, it has been observed by many saints that a vegetarian dies does help in Sadhana. Guru Amardas says:


"Those who take dirty food increase their filth;
such filth causes sorrow to the egocentric person." (p.121)

The position with regard to the meat of the cow or beef, is that the Sikhs do not venerate the cow like the Hindus. The latter view the cow as a mother, because she supplies the milk to the child when the mother's milk fails. However, beef is not a taboo for the Sikhs as Halal is. A non-vegetarian Sikh can take beef or pork as readily as any other meat. For those who want to advance on the spiritual path, vegetarian food is generally recommended by holy men as it avoids the killing of animals and birds.

i got this from http://allaboutsikhs.com/mansukh/076.htm
the reason i posted this is so PANDICK can read it and understand that MEAT in sikhi is WRONG!...regardless of what the 'akaal takhht' say.
i dont think u(pandick)realise that sikhs (well the ones with any sense)value what the guru has said more then what a bunch of losers have said. the sooner you realise that the better.

if u want to no if this is true

Quote:

that the Akal takht is seriously considering making meat a part of the sheek gurudwara langars!

[b]then YES the akaal takht have said that sikhs can eat meat. i dont know if they said anything about the langars though
anyway..the point im trying to make is that no matter what the akaal takht or anyone else says, MEAT is WRONG to eat for sikhs because i have proven that by giving you quotes from the siri guru granth sahib ji.
now just stop ranting on ok?....ur getting boring.
thank you

[Chanakya]

[Pandit]

First, I could not care less wheather Sheeks eat meat or not. I dont really care. But what if the highest authority in sheekism(akal takht) decides that its okay to serve and eat meat in the gurudwaras.....would you protest??? would that leave further division in sheekism???

i personally would want to see sheeks eating meat in the gurudwaras..that would be great...eating butter chicken in the langar would be a great idea...singhs sitting in line at the langar halls chomping down on some tandoori chicken would indeed be really really funny.....with a BBQ going full blast in the parking lot of all Gurudwaras..that would be funny..hehe...instead of handing out karai prasad..you would hand out wings and crap..haha...

anycase..that was my question...would you protest??? would attendence drop at gurudwaras if meat was instituted???

I hope so...before I die ....i want sheekism dead in the water as well......
_________________
"Whoever knows me as the Unborn, the beginningless, the great Lord of all worlds-he alone sees truly and is freed from all harm"

Gita 10.1

[Pandit]

One more thing. You can serve and eat beef in any Sheek temple across the world except India. Even Christians and Muslims in India are careful not to eat beef in india. Cause bad things happen to people and entire communities in india who eat beef and we dont want anything to happen to you guys. You have to be careful...
_________________
"Whoever knows me as the Unborn, the beginningless, the great Lord of all worlds-he alone sees truly and is freed from all harm"

Gita 10.1

[Chanakya]

[Chanakya]

[Pandit]

[Unknown 404]

look pandick, why cant u have a civilised convo for once? god cant you see how pathetic you have become? omg....you make me laugh. fine at first, you taking the piss was a laugh,now your getting boring. you post a load of shit and then start dissing the sikh religion. your a very sad and depressed individual man. let people have a civilised convo for once, go rant and rave on the hinduism section of this forum ok?
thank you

[Chanakya]

[Pandit]

Islam is a Western religion but for some unknown reason it has become a religion with a Eastern outlook.

But you still didnt answer the question. What happpened to the individuality in Sikhism???

Why the fighting over tables and chairs???

Why do armed Sikhs take over Chandigarh universities attacking girls that wear jeans and/or skirts????

[Chanakya]

[quote][quote="Pandit"]Islam is a Western religion but for some unknown reason it has become a religion with a Eastern outlook.


I don't think many Hindus will be happy with your comparision. Islam is considered to be most illogical religion, with murderer, womanizer, child molsgter Muhammad, as a role model

[affaf]

[affaf]

[Chanakya]