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Unknown 308
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:38 am Post subject: The creation of man.......how? |
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God created Adam and Eve, he created them in his own beautiful image. He told them not to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree, however deceived by the Devil, the eat the fruit and were thus banished from the garden of Eden.
They then had two son's, Caine and Abel. caine was jealous of the favour the Lord had for Abel and one day in a fit of anger Caine killed his brother.
Later on, "Caine lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch."
Now if Adam and Eve where the first human's and they gave birth to the third and fourth humans one of who died. HOW DID CAINE GET MARRIED AND FROM WHERE DID HIS WIFE COME FROM? |
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Spinoza
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 1214
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:14 am Post subject: Re: The creation of man.......how? |
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| sanj singh wrote: | God created Adam and Eve, he created them in his own beautiful image. He told them not to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree, however deceived by the Devil, the eat the fruit and were thus banished from the garden of Eden.
They then had two son's, Caine and Abel. caine was jealous of the favour the Lord had for Abel and one day in a fit of anger Caine killed his brother.
Later on, "Caine lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch."
Now if Adam and Eve where the first human's and they gave birth to the third and fourth humans one of who died. HOW DID CAINE GET MARRIED AND FROM WHERE DID HIS WIFE COME FROM? |
I think the story can only be understood as an allegory not as a factual description of what happened. Of course there will always be christians (mainly of the evangelical/pentacostal variety) and possibly jews too that will think this is what actually happened. |
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Bride of God
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I always thought of it this way, it is clear from reading Genesis that people lived 900, 700 or whatever years back then.
So, I'm sure that if Adam lived to be 900 years old, he'd have had more sons and daughters, and the sons would have had cousins and distant relatives by the time they married at say, 452 years old, ha ha.
Here are some verses:
Genesis 5:3
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
(Whole Chapter: Genesis 5 In context: Genesis 5:2-4)
Genesis 5:4
After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
(Whole Chapter: Genesis 5 In context: Genesis 5:3-5)
Genesis 5:5
Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.
**
See, a lot can happen in about 1000 years. |
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Perro Grande
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:42 am Post subject: |
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So somewhere along the line, incestual, brother-sister, and 1st cousin-1st cousin mating had to take place... No WONDER humans are so screwed up! Talk about diving head-first into the shallow end of the gene pool!
Lol!
But seriously... The story of Adam and Eve is allegorical at best, but is more likely the retelling of a myth borrowed from an older culture. |
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Perro Grande
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:04 am Post subject: |
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One of my favorite exchanges of Creation v. Evolution appears in the movie/play "Inherit the Wind."
This exchange, between Mr. Drummond (Evolution side) and Matthew Brady (creation side) is from Act II, Scene II. I've highlighted some of my favorite lines.
DRUMMOND: Listen to this: Genesis 4-16. "And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the East of Eden. And Cain knew his wife!" Where the hell did she come from?
BRADY: Who?
DRUMMOND: Mrs. Cain. Cain's wife. If, "In the beginning" there were only Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel, where'd this extra woman spring from? Ever figure that out?
BRADY: No, sir. I will leave the agnostics to hunt for her.
DRUMMOND: Never bothered you?
BRADY: Never bothered me.
DRUMMOND: Never tried to find out?
BRADY: No.
DRUMMOND: Figure somebody pulled off another creation, over in the next county?
BRADY: The Bible satisfies me, it is enough.
DRUMMOND: It frightens me to imagine the state of learning in this world if everyone had your driving curiosity. This book now goes into a lot of "begats." "And Aphraxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber" and so on and so on. These pretty important folks?
BRADY: They are the generations of the holy men and women of the Bible.
DRUMMOND: How did they go about all this "begatting"?
BRADY: What do you mean?
DRUMMOND: I mean, did people "begat" in those days about the same way they get themselves "begat" today?
BRADY: The process is about the same. I don't think your scientists have improved it any.
DRUMMOND: In other words, these folks were concieved and brought forth through the normal biological function known as sex. What do you think of sex, Colonel Brady?
BRADY: In what spirit is this question asked?
DRUMMOND: I'm not asking what you think of sex as a father, or as a husband. Or a Presidential candidate. You're up here as an expert on the Bible. What's the Biblical evaluation of sex?
BRADY: It is considered "Original Sin."
DRUMMOND: And all these holy people got themselves "begat" through "Original Sin"? All this sinning make 'em any less holy? |
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Unknown 347
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 59
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Perro Grande
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| ...all I found there was another myth... |
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thinklogic
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 611
Location: India
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It is considered "Original Sin." |
I have been wondering about this for a long time but got no satisfactory answer. Why is sex considered to be a sin? I assume that by sin, one means a bad activity.
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Think like a child... keep an open mind. |
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l l
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 1625
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| thinklogic wrote: | | Quote: | | It is considered "Original Sin." |
I have been wondering about this for a long time but got no satisfactory answer. Why is sex considered to be a sin? I assume that by sin, one means a bad activity. |
Original sin in Judeo/Christian theology describes the fall of man from a state of perfection. It is about disobedience. The moral (as I see it) is everything is good, but misuse causes injury. As example I would say that the USA is a "Garden of Eden." US has an abundance of opportunities to make life pleasant for most citizens except those with physical or mental handicaps that need help. Yet there are many Americans who make bad choices, live reckless life styles and engage in irresponsible behavior. Their lives are miserable. Some are drugs addicts, some are alcoholics, some are sex addicts, some have AIDS, some (women) have children out of wedlock (80% of Black kids and 35% of White kids and going up). Of course the children of these women are victims of an irresponsible male who walks away and the female who for what ever reason allows her self to be impregnated knowing that neither she nor the man are capable of proper care for the children. So sex in such cases becomes sinful, wrong and and criminal.
Sex is not sin nor wrong in Christianity, otherwise marriage would not have been a sacred sacrement (A rite believed to be a means of or visible form of grace) in Christianity.
Nothing in creation is evil. Evil stems from words or activities that inflict injury, physical or emotional on oneself or others. An activity maybe misused causing injury to oneself or others. If a man is irresponsible and impregnates a woman and walks away from responsiblity of caring for his offspring or the woman needing help he has committed a sin (or a crime). The same woman engaging in few minutes of pleasure or for whatever reason without thinking about the consequences of producing an offspring that she can not take care of properly is committing a moral violation against the child and society. The same can be said if a sexual disease is transmitted by one to another. The spread of AIDS is the result of reckless and irresponsible sexual behavior. AIDS is at epidemic levels in countries such as South Africa, India, China and Thailand. Having sex and transmitting AIDS is sinful (thelogically), wrong (morally), and a crime in some countries.
Christianity (also others) take the long view and say sex out of marriage is wrong because it does result in too many problems. I am sure if one for a moment sets aside his/her own current biases would tend to agree. Prohibition against sex out of marriage goes against human instincts and desire. But it is not impossible. The purpose here is not to deprive humans of natural pleasures and desires but to promote the general good. It is regulation rather than prohibition. And the regulation is not imposed, no one checks on anyone behind the walls of his/her house.
To avoid confusion I would like to add (and you know that already) that I am neither perfect nor free from natural instincts and desires. But I am willing to bet against my instincts and desires and say sex out of marriage is wrong because the damage at large is larger than personal gratification. This is also not to imply that it is easy to refrain from sex till marriage, and for some or many out of marriage while married. Lacking religious, moral, ethical, cultural and traditions restraints most would engage in sex out of marriage when available.
best regards |
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thinklogic
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 611
Location: India
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks ll, that was a very good answer. I like the way you have defined what is good and what is bad, i.e. on the basis of its actual effects on human lives.
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Think like a child... keep an open mind. |
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