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eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:42 am Post subject:

Quote:

These are the ideas atheism:

- There is more to moral behavior than mindlessly following rules (this is what religious people tend to do).

That is not saying anything. It is saying nothing. It is your weird perception and not reality. Personaly I MINDFULLY, not mindlessly follow the rules.

This statement comes from hate and irritation, not any kind of accurate analysis.

Quote:

- Always be sceptical and search for what is true.

Of course this menas that I should be sceptical of that statement as well.

Quote:

- Make the most of your life. If you want your life to have some sort of meaning, it's up to you to find it.

Again that is saying nothing. Hitler's life and the things he wanted had meaning to him. Was it ok with you?

This statement comes from the atheist belief that everything is relative as I stated much earlier here.

Quote:

- It's no good relying on some external power to change you; you must change yourself.

Again this says nothing. You can think you changed yourself and not realize an external power did it. This statement has no bearing on what the poster is asking.

This statement also refutes itself in that you musy believe there is an external power in order to be sure it is no good. How could you know it is no good if you don't believe there is one?

Quote:

- Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good, and don't believe things just because you want them to be true.

Yes, argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy but the second half of this statement is another self refuting statement. Don't believe yor own statement because you want it to be true.

Quote:

- All beliefs should be open to question.

I love this one. It is again self refuting. It means THAT very statement is open to question too.

The BELIEF that all beliefs should be open to question is itself a belief that should be open to question!

Quote:

Atheism does not claim to provide any meaning to life, instead it encourages people to find it themselves and not relying on something so vague like a god.

You contradict yourself so much man. What if they want to rely on a god? You claim you are for people to find their own way except you don't want them to do it with God. Any way is ok with you as long as it is your way.

Quote:

It is certainly different from christianity which tries to assure people that god has a purpose in their life, that they live to glorify god, that they are meant to be projection of his image, etc etc etc...

I don’t think you understand the term "glorify God". You, yourself glorify God by what you do. That you exist, glorifies God.

The Bible says that God has given each of us gifts. Some have music gifts, others athletic gifts, gifts of memory, gifts of preaching, gifts of math and on an on. You have them as well. The Bible says that God intended you to use those gifts to better your society and bring satisfaction to working. God made us word from day one and we will work in the afterlife as well. This concept gives meaning to life. It gives us purpose and a reason to get up in the morning. It makes sense. It is real and tangible. It is universal and it is real. I can explain it to you. You can understand it. It is not a vague concept. It is real life for real people. It explains why some are not happy and gives them something real do to get out of unhappiness.
What are your gifts?

scepsis

Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Mine is in perfect nick.

Really. No wrinkles?

Yes, but they look good on me.

Quote:

No pains? No sickness? No deteriorization at all? Your body is going to last forever?

Certainly my body- or rather the atoms that make it up, will last forever. i won't though.

Quote:

God started us out with perfect bodies. (No, the Bible does not use the words "perfect bodies".)

Really? Tell a haemophiliac that.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

Quote:

Yes, but they look good on me

LOL. So much for a perfect body then.

Quote:

Certainly my body- or rather the atoms that make it up, will last forever. i won't though.

Ok, then your body is not perfect.

Quote:

Really? Tell a haemophiliac that.

What does a haemophiliac have to do with what I said?

Spinoza

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 1214

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:55 am Post subject:

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Q. Why are we alive?
A. By chance.

According to the atheist, MATTER + TIME + CHANCE (as admitted above) = Life as we know it.

That's not what was said.

Quote:

If life is chance

Life isn't *just* chance. You said yourself it was matter+time+chance (a minute ago) according to 'the atheist' (which is also not true)

Quote:

then there is no universal basis for morality, justice, beauty or ethics. The Popes ideal of society is just as good as Hitler’s.

No, that's not true: man has the power to reason, man has the power of thought, love, compassion. These mechanisms can be explained quite well *without* God and they work perfectly well in helping man decide between wrong and right. At least as well as those used, by a Hindu or a Christian.

Quote:

I don't remember who started this thread but I hope they are noticing the atheists offer no basis or foundation for a meaningful life. Their religion is void of meaning and basis for a purposeful life.

That is utter rubbish and a vile lie. But first you should explain to me why there *should* be a reason for life or a higher purpose. Use logic this time.

Quote:

As the poster pointed out, one does not need a reason to live, thus death is just as valid. A human has no more intrinsic value than a rock.

That is not true, a human does not need an external reason to live per se. Just tell me *why* would should need a reason to live or need a purpose in life, *without* using God or the Bible. Just tell me why this is a logical necesity.

Quote:

We are here by chance. Chance is not an answer that provides purpose. It is an answer that leads to "survival of the fittest" and "relativism" in which all life is void of intrinsic meaning.

Wrong reasoning again. Survival of the fittest is based on the need of life to procreate.

Tell me one thing: why do we need a reason to live. And try to explain this *without* using God or the Bible.

The only view that gives hope, meaning and purpose to life is the Christian World View which views man as an image bearer of God Himself who loves us and through Him all things can be measured and given meaning and purpose.

To have a universal in the conclusion one must have a universal in the premise. Only with an infinite God can one arrive at the conclusion that there is a universal basis for meaning, morality, beauty, and justice for humanity. No other explanation can do that.[/quote]

scepsis

Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Really? Tell a haemophiliac that.

What does a haemophiliac have to do with what I said?

You said

Quote:

God started us out with perfect bodies.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

scepsis wrote:

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Really? Tell a haemophiliac that.

What does a haemophiliac have to do with what I said?

You said

Quote:

God started us out with perfect bodies.

Yeah, so what does a haemophiliac have to do with it? I think you have lost site of what the topic was and what my responce was.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:16 pm Post subject:

Spinoza wrote:

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Q. Why are we alive?
A. By chance.

According to the atheist, MATTER + TIME + CHANCE (as admitted above) = Life as we know it.

That's not what was said.

Quote:

If life is chance

Life isn't *just* chance. You said yourself it was matter+time+chance (a minute ago) according to 'the atheist' (which is also not true)

Quote:

then there is no universal basis for morality, justice, beauty or ethics. The Popes ideal of society is just as good as Hitler’s.

Quote:

That is utter rubbish and a vile lie. But first you should explain to me why there *should* be a reason for life or a higher purpose. Use logic this time.

Quote:

As the poster pointed out, one does not need a reason to live, thus death is just as valid. A human has no more intrinsic value than a rock.

Quote:

We are here by chance. Chance is not an answer that provides purpose. It is an answer that leads to "survival of the fittest" and "relativism" in which all life is void of intrinsic meaning.

You have lost site of what this post is about too. The original questions were:

if there is no god, then why are we alive? dsnt it seem that being alive is pointless?? i fell im alive just to wait for my death??!!

The poster is obviously asking about meaning to life. No atheist here has offered this person any real answer yet. They simply say we are here because we are here. They have said meaning and purpose is anything you want it to be so go ahead and make something up. Your meaning is as good as another. You, as an aitheist, have not offerered anything substantial to the poster.

I am paraphrasing of course.

Unknown 310

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

Truthseeker wrote:

Hi,
i'm new to this website, and im open to all religions.
id like to ask this question... if there is no god, then why are we alive? dsnt it seem that being alive is pointless?? i fell im alive just to wait for my death??!!

thanks

To Truth Seeker
Why we are alive ? Because we are waiting for our death . There are two kind of death , first death savely and the second is death with agony. Death savely means back to our origin (this is the mission of all prophets to teach us the door of death- only a few dead savely). Most people dead with agony (no matter believe in God or not) because they dont want to know "the door". Remember God is only the name believe in God or not makes no different.
Rosanno Nauli
Indonesia

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

Quote:

Why we are alive ? Because we are waiting for our death .

Now that is encouraging. Wink

I am more than willing to bet you are a Muslim. One can see from your answers two things here. One, you don't know where you are going after death. Islam teaches that know one knows where the go after death, unless of course you die while killing a Jew or Christian. Then you are guarenteed life in paradise with all the sex you want. They ALL pass over hell though. That is why your answer is not encouraging because you as a Muslim don't know where you are going.

Two, the references to God as a name only is setting us up for the belief that Allah is the same God as in the Bible. Maybe I am wrong, but I see it coming.

Also the obsession with death and sex is the mark of the Muslim. This poster is asking about the meaning of life and right off the bat the Muslim ( I am guessing) goes to death as the meaning. The thing I am most glad about these days is at least the atheist are on my side as a Christian when it comes to fighting the Muslims.

scepsis

Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

eruss wrote:

scepsis wrote:

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Really? Tell a haemophiliac that.

What does a haemophiliac have to do with what I said?

You said

Quote:

God started us out with perfect bodies.

Yeah, so what does a haemophiliac have to do with it? I think you have lost site of what the topic was and what my responce was.

God obviously didn't start a haemophiliac out with a perfect body.

Spinoza

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 1214

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:56 am Post subject:

Quote:

I am quite aware of that question.

Quote:

The poster is obviously asking about meaning to life.

Well, he asked if life would become pointless without a God to worship. I beg to differ. Life can have a point (or a meaning) with or without God.

Quote:

No atheist here has offered this person any real answer yet.

First the question should be examined properly.

Quote:

They simply say we are here because we are here.

That has nothing to do with Atheism. But we don't need to have a reason to have become (our existence may not have had a reason per se) for us to have meaningful lives.

You have demonstrated to be unable to distinguish between these two concepts.

Quote:

They have said meaning and purpose is anything you want it to be so go ahead and make something up.

That is a lie. That is not 'the Atheist' answer. Actually there is no single 'atheist' answer or even a collection of those. Atheism is not a filosophy nor a religion thus it cannot be asked such a question.

Quote:

Your meaning is as good as another. You, as an aitheist, have not offerered anything substantial to the poster.

I've made a nice post, although I am not an Atheist myself. The original poster did not comment on it. I have never denied the existence of God. So stop telling foul lies again.

Quote:

I am paraphrasing of course.

Yes, and as usual you start telling a lot of untruth when you do. Like when you lied when you said you actually studied Greek or Eastern Religions. At best your 'studies' were skin-deep (in the case of Greek you lied completely you no NOTHING of that language)

Now please answer this very simple question:

- What reason you give me why we should *need* a purpose in life? (or why do you think our lives should *have* a meaning?)

Just show some common courtesy and answer this simple question without intentionally telling a lot of untruth.

yeezevee

Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 2300

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:15 am Post subject:

Quote:

Truthseeker :new to this website, and im open to all religions.
id like to ask this question... if there is no god, then why are we alive? dsnt it seem that being alive is pointless?? i fell im alive just to wait for my death??!!

Quote:

Rosanno Nauli replies:
To Truth Seeker
Why we are alive ? Because we are waiting for our death . There are two kind of death , first death savely and the second is death with agony. Death savely means back to our origin (this is the mission of all prophets to teach us the door of death- only a few dead savely). Most people dead with agony (no matter believe in God or not) because they dont want to know "the door". Remember God is only the name believe in God or not makes no different.
Rosanno Nauli
Indonesia

Quote:

eruss comment:
I am more than willing to bet you are a Muslim. One can see from your answers two things here. One, you don't know where you are going after death. Islam teaches that know one knows where the go after death, unless of course you die while killing a Jew or Christian. Then you are guarenteed life in paradise with all the sex you want. They ALL pass over hell though. That is why your answer is not encouraging because you as a Muslim don't know where you are going.

ah--ha.. you far-eastern guys are having fun over here.. dear friends from Indonesia and dear eruss..

I am of the opinion (strong), newcomers to FFI need some time to adjust and digest what is there in the FFI website... I would argue with you to encourage them, at the same time educate and learn from them..

So,... Rosanno Nauli , Indonesia and Truthseeker.. welcome to FFI.. and air your views often at the site.. Infact point out the mistakes and problems with FFI site and encourage your friends and wellwishers to join the forum.. You don't need to agree with everything and anything that is there in FFI..That is actually detrimental to the site FFI... So tell us something more about the Land and its history called Indonesia...

with best wishes
yeezevee

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

scepsis wrote:

eruss wrote:

scepsis wrote:

eruss wrote:

Quote:

Really? Tell a haemophiliac that.

What does a haemophiliac have to do with what I said?

You said

Quote:

God started us out with perfect bodies.

Yeah, so what does a haemophiliac have to do with it? I think you have lost site of what the topic was and what my responce was.

God obviously didn't start a haemophiliac out with a perfect body.

You think when I said God started us out with perfect bodies that I meant when we were born? Like I said you lost sight of the discussion.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:15 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Atheism is not a filosophy nor a religion thus it cannot be asked such a question.

And can give no answer as well. That was my whole point!

If atheism beliefs nothing then it can assert nothing!

Quote:

I've made a nice post, although I am not an Atheist myself

You sound like one, but we can have that discussion later unless you just feel the need to discuss it now in someone else’s thread.

Quote:

- What reason you give me why we should *need* a purpose in life?

With out a purpose we are useless, thus you need a purpose to be useful. We are not machines, we are humans. The original poster verifies this with his statement:

i fell im alive just to wait for my death??!!

He felt no purpose thus he felt not useful and unfulfilled. The Biblical world view answers what the purpose is with satisfaction and real meaning, nothing else does.

The Christian World View had an answer to the poster, you on the other hand, have not answered other than to say there need not be an answer. That sir, is a non answer answer and is useless, void of any real meaning.

Do you have any purpose in your life or do you lead a purposeless existence? What is your purpose in comming here and debating me?

Unknown 288

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 69

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:03 am Post subject:

Hmm, is that so? I wonder about that... To eruss and all who vehemently defend their faith without even giving it careful consideration: 1. Why would any religion insists they can give a meaning in one's life when they can't even prove without doubt their own integrity? No one can point out the existence of god in general, much less their own particular god. Religions failed to give good credentials miserably in this aspect. 2. Why would religious Toms and Dicks like to bash atheism when they themselves believe in something so vague like a god? Heck, they can't even prove their own religion is the right one. Who is the one asserting such a ridiculous claim in the first place without proof anyway? Theism or atheism? 3. Why would any religion give such a nice ring around the notion 'meaning of life' anyway? Don't they know that selfish internal goal-oriented life satisfaction is what the 'meaning of life' or the 'purpose of life' is? Can religions even assure that the 'meaning of life' they feed to their gullible followers are not some cruel hoax, considering the fact that they can't even make a stand for themselves? Well, those theists better come up with a credible evidence that their particular god exists, and that their religion is the right one before they post some good-ol'-atheism-bashing-funfare. Claiming that atheism believes in nothing therefore asserts nothing is ridiculous, since atheism comes by rejecting the notion religions so fanatically protects, and such a claim only serves to imply that god and religion mean nothing, and therefore making a fool out of themselves.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:31 am Post subject:

Bag_of_Thoughts wrote:

Hmm, is that so? I wonder about that... Confused

To eruss and all who vehemently defend their faith without even giving it careful consideration:

1. Why would any religion insists they can give a meaning in one's life when they can't even prove without doubt their own integrity? No one can point out the existence of god in general, much less their own particular god. Religions failed to give good credentials miserably in this aspect.

2. Why would religious Toms and Dicks like to bash atheism when they themselves believe in something so vague like a god? Heck, they can't even prove their own religion is the right one. Who is the one asserting such a ridiculous claim in the first place without proof anyway? Theism or atheism?

3. Why would any religion give such a nice ring around the notion 'meaning of life' anyway? Don't they know that selfish internal goal-oriented life satisfaction is what the 'meaning of life' or the 'purpose of life' is? Can religions even assure that the 'meaning of life' they feed to their gullible followers are not some cruel hoax, considering the fact that they can't even make a stand for themselves?

Well, those theists better come up with a credible evidence that their particular god exists, and that their religion is the right one before they post some good-ol'-atheism-bashing-funfare. Claiming that atheism believes in nothing therefore asserts nothing is ridiculous, since atheism comes by rejecting the notion religions so fanatically protects, and such a claim only serves to imply that god and religion mean nothing, and therefore making a fool out of themselves. Rolling Eyes

In all your rambling you have provided no answer to the original posters question either. The more you atheist talk, the stupider you look.

Unknown 288

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 69

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:58 am Post subject:

To eruss I have already given my answer in my previous post. eruss, get a clue... And I ain't no atheist. I'm a christian, hence I'm a religious person. You want me to type that one more time to get it through your head?

scepsis

Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 647

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

eruss wrote:

You think when I said God started us out with perfect bodies that I meant when we were born? Like I said you lost sight of the discussion.

You did not specify any other time, eruss. When precisely do you mean?
"If we are going to be reborn and live for ever, why should our current bodies die at all?" I asked some time ago, meaning that if we will get eternal bodies in the future, why not now?

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

And I ain't no atheist. I'm a christian, hence I'm a religious person.

A Chrsitian would not say "god means nothing" as you did.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Why are we alive?

scepsis wrote:

eruss wrote:

You think when I said God started us out with perfect bodies that I meant when we were born? Like I said you lost sight of the discussion.

Maybe I did not. I mean when God created Adam he created him with a perfect body. One that would not die. Then sin happened. That is why we die. Thus the need for a new one.

I don't remember how we got on this. I am not intending to debate whether what I just said is true or not, I am just telling you what the Biblical facts are.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:06 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Well, those theists better come up with a credible evidence that their particular god exists, and that their religion is the right one before they post some good-ol'-atheism-bashing-funfare.

The Bible talks about the "many convincing proofs" that Jesus was God and thus God does exist. Do you reject those? Jesus himself did some atheist-bashing of His own. Do you reject His bashing too?

And BTW, you are bashing the bashers. This makes you a hypocrite.

eruss

Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 900

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:14 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I have already given my answer in my previous post. eruss, get a clue... Rolling Eyes

Oh yeah, I went back and found it. You said we are here “by chance”. This is definitely NOT the Christian answer. Can you show me in the New Testament where CHANCE is?

I hate to break the news to you, but you are not a Christian my friend. What church do you go to?

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