Faith Freedom International

[Spinoza]

[mughal200]

Dear friends,

I think it is difficult if not impossible for anyone to stick to any wrong and harmful belief and be fully aware of it yet remain comfortable with it. So I would suggest none of us accuses the other of deliberate lie. The only reason we have any belief is because we are comfortable with it otherwise we always in doubt about it. For example, if one kills someone without any justification whatsoever and is aware of it, can that person live with himself comfortably? My answer is, no. However, if one kills one in self defence and one is fully aware of it that would help one not to be overwhelmed by guilt. Likewise if one kills one by accident and is not even aware that one has done this, one will have no reason to be uncomfortable about it.

We are all psychologically conditioned by our circumstances and environment and so what we believe or do reflects that. What we are doing here is testing ourselves against reality as we see it in order to adjust ourselves accordingly. We see the need for adjustment because that is what is required of us by the reality check. For example, if we all were muslims or kafirs for that matter, we would not see the need for adjustment because we will see when we reality check ourselves that we are all same as each other. However, things change when some of us are different from others. There arises conflict of interest. We end up with only three possibilities. a) We all become muslims, b) we all become kafirs and c) accept each other as we are and so compromise.

In order for all of us to turn muslims, the muslims must either have some convincing reason or an overwhelming force, have they? No.

In order for all of us to turn kafirs, kafirs must have patience to educate muslims, convincing reason and overwhelming force, have they? No. They have convincing reason but you cannot convince an unaware born ignorant person who has been indoctrinated as well by reason alone because you first need to unwind a person to free one from ignorance by birth and indoctrinational effect ie neutralise one. Only then you can convince one. Muslims are indoctrinated as children by their parents, relatives and society at large the while they are under their full control, so to unwind them we too must have similar control over them to put them through similar paces in the opposite direction, can we? No.

So the best we can do is express our opinions rationally as to how we ourselves see things and that may help them educate themselves in rationality and as they become more and more rational they would have no problem in convincing themselves as to what the real world is all about. If we murtads=muslim apostates stand back and think about it, that is how we murtads ourselves turned as such. No kafir put gun to our head and said you such and such muslims give up islam or else. It was all a kind of natural process of thought that took years. However, things were not the same the other way round ie conversion to religion was always a forced process.

The main point is that we all must learn to compromise and accept each other equal as well as give the process the necessary time to work itself out. As for us kafirs, let us spread knowledge and rationality and make clear to our muslim friends that they must stop pointing their guns at us. They must give up the idea that we are evil people and so they must force us to turn muslims or even remain muslims. If they do not then, of course, confrontation is inevitable, which is pointed out by many as clash of civilisations but I call it clash of civilisation and barbarity. I call muslim side barbarity because what else can one call this push by muslim missionaries to convert everybody to their religion for centuries. We are only trying to defend ourselves against this utter destruction of our human rights and ourselves or is that a wrong thing to do? Have we no right to life and liberty or to live in peace anywhere and everywhere in the world?

Although I am using islam as example, indoctrinational missionary organised religion in genral is my target. Things are getting really bad because of islam. If we look at history, Arabs were a free people. No body from out side came to conquer them like they started out to conquer others as soon as Muhammad began his mission in madina.

So the conflict of interest must be realised or there is no going to be any peace in the world as more and more people fall in the trap of paying muslims back what they have been getting of them for a very long time now. It is in the muslim interest to take advantage of nonmuslim goodwill towards them before it disappears because nonmuslim are slowly turning to muslim hatred thanks to muslim actions and that could spell the end of islam and muslims by way of all out confrontation anywhere and everywhere. Sympathy for muslim is going to disappear if they do not stop terrorising others and force them into reaction.

So it is time that muslims stopped fighting and started talking. Not only talk but talk sense.

The quran and the hadith teach muslims utmost hate against kafirs, what are they going to do about it? They cannot continue that way because we the nonmuslims would not let them and we would not let them because we are the ones who are bearing the brunt of it at the other end of the stick. So choice is simple, become civilised and learn to live with everyone else in peace or wait for the day of destruction because hate only begets hate. People are already fed up with muslim carrying on and are turning against islam and muslim here and there and this thing is going to spread to a very dangerous level out of control unless muslims stop preaching the quran, the kafir hate manual. If anyone wrote such hate book against muslims today, I don't think any descent publisher would publish it.

Not only the quran is book of destruction of kafirs but also it is a book that has nothing good in it for muslims either, for it teaches them to ignore life of this world for life in hereafter without any basis or proof. Hence muslims are a backward people because you either go for this life or the next and they chose the next life without realising that there is no next life as the quran dictates. It is all a false hope for which muslims are out to destroy others as well as themselves. No wonder then that muslim are only too eager to commit suicide, for they are sleep walking into this situation thanks to their institutional indoctrination that they hold so dear.

Regards and
_________________
All the best, from Mughal at
http://www.muslimsandislamic2.faithweb.com
http://www.religionandsecularism3.gq.nu

[Ibn Rushd]

Spinoza:

[rand]

Stopnot wrote:

[stopnot]

Spinoza wrote:

[MarkT]

Yeah man I'll tell you what that dang old internet man ya just on go on there and point n click get in there and talk about w w dot w com...
_________________
"—to find one's happiness in truth, to oppose illusion, to value integrity above God, and character above salvation."

[agentazure]

[MarkT]

I always knew you were a Texan at heart.

ExHindu back on page 3 of this thread got me thinking of what would any future non-enlightened Islamic internet be like, but wouldn't you know Bobby would have to ask....
_________________
"—to find one's happiness in truth, to oppose illusion, to value integrity above God, and character above salvation."

[Scandinavian infidel]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030520/COWENT20/TPColumnists/

On April 19, Hossein Derakhshan, a young Iranian living in Toronto, got an alarming e-mail from a friend of his in Tehran. The friend, Sina Montallebi, wrote that he had been summoned to appear before the religious police.

The next day, Mr. Montallebi became the first person in history to be jailed for the crime of keeping a Weblog.

"They did it to frighten people," says Mr. Derakhshan, who came to Canada two years ago.

The story of the Internet and the mullahs is a fascinating study in how technology can subvert even the most repressive of regimes. In the past couple of years, Iranian authorities have cracked down hard on the country's reformist press, closing newspapers and arresting journalists. But it will be harder for the mullahs to close down the Web. Sina Montallebi has become a powerful symbol of the liberal and technology-savvy generation that the mullahs have failed to suppress.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104413,00.html

A global summit scheduled in December may result in a proposal to put the Internet under United Nations control — an idea that has met solid resistance from the United States.
_________________
The Islamic world is involved in up to 90% of the wars and terrorist attacks on the planet. If Islam is a religion of peace, how does a religion of war look like?