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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:12 am Post subject: URGENT..ADVICE NEEDED.. |
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Here is my story:
My boyfriend is a muslim. I am Hindu. We have one child, she is only 4 months. We live together, because I refuse to do a nikkah. His family are nice to me, but they don't like me because I am hindu and I didn't convert. there are many converts that married into his family. I am the only one that refuses to convert. He hopes or believes that one day I will convert.
He wants our little girl to follow islam. I am so afraid of that...because I see what a terrifying religion this really is..and I see how he lives..no freedom to live, think for yourself..and the fear he lives in..How do I protect my daughter. I took it upon myself to learn a bit about islam, I went to the mosque and I read the Quran..not the whole thing..but When I read the things it says..I wonder, how can this ever be the word of god..but It is the word of man..as a means to control.
I am afraid to let the baby go to his family because I am afriad that they will teach her things..sort of like brainwash her..as he is brainwashed.
He says he believes in Islam..but sometimes he wonders and questions the existence of god.. Sometimes he does things that the quran doesn't agree with..and he feels so much quilt and fear..that I believe that he is the one punishing himself..not god. He lives in a lot of fear..and I can see how much he is hurting himself..because of this religion. I want to help him..but I don't know how..
I practice a lot of meditation and yoga..and sometimes he asks me to explain this type of philosophy to him..and he says it makes sense to him..but then he goes right back to the quran and what it says..and I guess he is not allowed to follow anything else because of fear.He gets so confused sometimes..
I want to help him so see the light and the beauty of god and this life..but I don't know how..
What can I do to protect my child from this? What can I do to help him? because of this religion we cannot have a life of love and freedom..I think he wants to..but he thinks its a sin..and compare what the quran says..its like he can't think for himself..he doesn't know how to.. |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cosmicreason,
Enlighhtening a person is a slow process. The first step is to try to understand his views. What type of Islam does he follow? Why does he believe? How does he rationalize his beliefs? By understanding the foundations of his belief system and the defense mechanisms he uses we are in a better position to enlightren him. What are his weak links?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102052&highlight=#102052
Presumably, you know him well, and have influenced him successfully and unsuccessfully in other matters, so you need a method where you can really reach him.
If you can give some detals (there's no need to reveal personal details) it would help me to develop theological problems with his faith.
Welcome to the forum!!
Best regards,
Rand |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your repsponse Rand.
He believes the Quran are the words of God. He really believes it so much that he is convinced that somehow I will follow that way one day. Because he thinks its the way of life. According to his beliefs..
-He Believes..We are living in sin, because I refuse to do a muslim ceremony.
-He told me that he is not supposed to be with me, because I am not muslim..I am not the ideal person, his whole family thinks this way too. so its a sin. He says god must be testing him. He says he cannot love me fully because I am not muslim...we are not one..I have to follow islam..so we can be like one.
-He thinks its okay for his whole family to know about what goes on in our life....His family, not me and the baby mind you..his extended family they come first. If they want to come visit us and i don't feel comfortable..he argues with me and threatens to leave me..
-He believes that we should all be like one..which means..that we should all follow Islam...that everyone is a born muslim..
-When the baby was born, he sarificed an animal for her..and he says he is supposed to educate her with the teachings of islam. Before the baby was born..we had an agreement that we will not let religion influence her in any way..and now he says its his right to educate her in islam..and its a sin if he doesn't...and if our child doesn't follow islam, she is will go to hell..and suffer.
-He believes that women shouldn't have rights to be in a position of authority.
-He believes that this baby is his, not mine.
-I love eastern art, like chinese, indian, hindu, buddhism..etc..I cannot have those type of artwork in my home.
-I have to eat only halal meats..
-he tries to teach me about islam every chance he gets..
-sometimes we go out to night clubs, and we have a few drinks..not more than 3..he would have such a great time..the next day..he would feel so much guilt that he cannot pray or anything, because he feels he has comitted a sin and he will go to hell ..
-he thinks I will go to hell because i don't believe in islam.
-He suffers from depression frequently because he thinks that we are living in sin, because i am not muslim and I refused to do the nikkah..He really feels that god will punish and as a result, he lives in that fear..
-when he thinks outside of the box(islam)..He gets afraid..because he feels that he is going astray from the path and will suffer.and if he does denounce islam, his family will be very upset..He does as much as he can to make them happy. He doesn't want to dissapoint them.
He suffers from a type of depression also because he gets a lot of thoughts about other things, that is not islam..other beliefs etc..and he thinks its a sin..that he will suffer...he thinks god is constantly testing him, and sometimes he gets angry with god..because he says..he tries to follow everything he is supposed to and still he is suffering..
I think his inner self is reaching out to him in some way..and he is afraid to embrace it...
I love him and want to help him and I want to save my baby from all of this.. |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Cosmicreason | Quote: | | and I see how he lives..no freedom to live, think for yourself |
Why did you have him as your boyfriend then? Did you not see these things in the beginning before you decided to have a daughter? Do you realize how big a responsibility is having a child, or did you take it lightly?Sorry for the cruel questions, but I'm angry that you seem to think you're not to blame? Did you not know about Islam before you had an affair with him?
| Quote: | | He says he cannot love me fully because I am not muslim |
And you still love him. Great 
| Quote: | | Before the baby was born..we had an agreement that we will not let religion influence her in any way..and now he says its his right to educate her in islam |
Oh well, what can I say. He broke your word, he broke your trust, he broke your respect and you still love him. . Nice men in the World crave for love, while women like you go and love men who dont respect and trust them. Amazing.
I guess you didnt judge his personality before you got married, and you never thought about the case in which he DIDNT keep his promise. You really never thought of the other situation, right?
| Quote: | -He believes that women shouldn't have rights to be in a position of authority.
-He believes that this baby is his, not mine. |
He's not to blame, YOU ARE. You're the owner of the house that allowed a thief to rob you. Its YOU who opened the door to him.
After how many months or years of you and him together, did you have the baby?
| Quote: | | I love him and want to help him and I want to save my baby from all of this.. |
Its not possible at all, unless you decide to be strong and leave him and I'll say this a 100 times but it wont make an effect and you'll live your whole life in misery, or maybe you'll divorce after 5 years and what not.
Its your fault basically. Lack of planning, forethought and lack of strength of character.
Adnan |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your response adnan..
You have some very good points..
when we were dating, he was a totally different person than he is now..He was more open minded and understanding..
To be honest, I didn't know about Islam before..I have muslims in my family..but they are totally different...I guess they are not following the Quran. I had no idea this is what islam is all about.
In the beginning of our relationship he told me such beautiful things..he seems so open minded and understanding. He Painted a good picture of Islam.
Until one day, after the baby was born.. I wanted to read the Quran my self..because after he and his family found out I was pregnant everything was different..and after i read the quran..I was shocked to learn about what it really is..
I went out on my own..after he says he can't be with me because of his religion..I told him to do what he thinks is right. I went on my own and supported myself..He told me he will come with me..if I at least do a nikkah..I said no, I can't and won't..then One day he says, he will move in with me..its okay..We don't have to do anything..again he seems understanding..so he moved in...Everything was okay...for a good while he wasn't really practicing islam, they way he used to..then whenever he goes to his family...he comes back all confused..and feels guilty etc..his family influences him..
Anyhow, after the baby was born...a few days later..he did the sacrificing etc..and making demands..etc..I asked him to leave, to get out of my home..that I will not tolerate that..after a good while, he comes back..and says he loves me and wants to be with me..
If he is not supposed to be with me according to islam, why does he keep coming back?? I asked him why do u keep coming back..
he says he can't leave me..i asked why? i told him, I will be okay..I can support myself and the baby..not to worry..i was really nice and understanding..then He answered: "I love you".." I can't leave because I won't be leaving for a good reason" "you have done nothing wrong"
I believe that he knows deep down inside of him..the reality of this religion..and how wrong it really is.. but he is afraid to leave islam..because he has been so brainwashed, and because of his family..will disown him..
He doesn't know who he is? I feel sorry for him. Sometimes he forgets about his pracitices because how I live..kind of rub off on him..and he seems so much happier. So much more free...but as soon as he goes to his family..he gets confused again..its like they brainwash him..
I will stick to what I think is right..I just want him to able to be himself..and himself is not following islam..becuase he is not happy because of the religion not me.. |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Dear Cosmicreason,
There is a web site regarding cults, that you might find to be informative. It might also be helpful to get counseling for yourself to deal with these complex issues. http://www.cultinformation.org.uk/article3.html
This is a very difficult/complex situation. The easy part is the criticizing islam part. The more difficult part is that muslims are sometimes violent or fanatical, and don't like criticism and work hard to not listen. There is also a depression issue, and he might not be up to losing a god.
If you are a great teacher, understanding the message of why Islam is wrong, and effectively communicating it in such a way that he is receptive; and if he is a good student (intelligent, open-minded, etc.) then there is an excellent chance of convincing him. In some cases with a poor teacher and a horrible student, it is very difficult to convince the student.
Part of being a good teacher, is to know many, many reasons why Islam is false. If the only proof you have is regarding a women's right issue, and he doesn't care about women's rights, and the subject hardly comes up, it is more difficult to convince him. If you are aware of textual problems(imperfect text), grammatical problems, logical fallacies, philosophical problems, ethical problems, etc. then whenever it is appropriate to criticize Islam, a topic can always naturaly come up. If you are a master psychologist, you will criticize in the appropriate doses and determine whether direct or indirect criticism is best.
For now, I'd be somewhat patient, you need to study him better, to learn critical islam more, to get counseling and devise a well-thought out scheme.
You mentioned the word urgent, I hope there is no immediate danger.
I still don't get his belief system. Let's assume Allah is really god, it makes sense to only marry a muslim(ah), to pray five times a day to not drink, to not have statues, etc.
It is important to understand his proofs for Islam. That way we can point out logical fallacies in his beliefs. We also need to precisely understand his beliefs. For example, one member of this forum (still?) believes in the quran but not the hadith, he believes that the quran in arabic is 100% true, but that people misinterpret arabic and that he does not understand arabic. If I quote a irrational hadith to him, it won't undermine his faith since he does not believe in hadith, if I show him an irrational/unethical quranic verse, he'll assume that I am midsinterpreting the arabic. The arguments need to suit the person.
http://www.cultinformation.org.uk/article3.html#tab1 writes:
| Quote: | Table 1: Do’s and Don’ts for Families and Friends of Cult Members
The Do's
DO try to keep in regular contact via mail or telephone even if there is little response.
DO express sincere love for the cult member at every available opportunity.
DO keep a diary of comments, attitudes and events associated with his/her life in the cult.
DO always welcome the cult member back into the family home no matter what is said.
DO keep copies of all written correspondence from you and the individual.
DO record all the names, addresses and phone numbers of people linked with the cult.
DO try to bite your tongue if the cult member makes unkind comments.
DO read all of the recommended books relating to cults and mind control, as well as reading other information on the cult in question.
DO seek help and information from organisations specialising in counter-cult work. We care about you and your individual situation.
The Don'ts
DO NOT rush into adopting a potential solution before carefully researching the cult problem.
DO NOT say:"You are in a cult; you are brainwashed".
DO NOT give money to the member of the group.
DO NOT feel guilty. This is not a problem caused by families.
DO NOT act in an angry or hostile manner towards the cult member.
DO NOT feel alone. It happens to thousands of families every year.
DO NOT underestimate the control the cult has over a member.
DO NOT antagonise the cult member by ridiculing his/her beliefs.
DO NOT be judgemental or confrontational towards the cult member.
DO NOT antagonise any of the cult's leadership or members.
DO NOT be persuaded by a cult 'specialist' to pay large sums of money without verifying his/her qualifications.
DO NOT give up hope of success in helping your family member to leave the group no matter how long the involvement has already been.
DO NOT neglect yourself or other family members. |
Best wishes,
Rand |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:44 am Post subject: |
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cosmicreason
| Quote: | | I asked him why do u keep coming back.. |
becuase he needs you for his physical needs. his "love" is fake, its a mask.
| Quote: | | then He answered: "I love you" |
thats a big complaint i have to women. how easily and completely fooled they are by this line, amazes me. take a poll and see who's fooled by the line "I love you" and the vast majority will be women. maybe we wont see even a single man being fooled by this line.
| Quote: | | ".." I can't leave because I won't be leaving for a good reason" |
now be tough and say "screw you. This is MY house and I ORDER you to leave. If you dont leave, I'll call the authorities - that should be reason enough for you to leave"
he'll become violent, so you can say it softer "i'm sorry, i dont think we can continue"
maybe he'll be angry even at THAT. so the best thing considering what hypocrites some muslims are, is to distance themself from this gradually.
again, you have a daughter with him now so thats the chain. how old is your daughter? you didnt tell me after how many years of being together or knowing each other, you had the baby? and is your boyfriend pakistani?
| Quote: | | "you have done nothing wrong" |
he's brainwashing you and fooling you. i know some muslim hypocrite friends like him and i wouldnt be within 1 mile radius.. but you failed to judge what he was. you failed to see his fakeness.
| Quote: | | I believe that he knows deep down inside of him..the reality of this religion..and how wrong it really is |
no, thats you saying it because you love him and you want to justify this so you're not ashamed or embarrased infront of us.
the reality is, he wont leave islam ever. He's muslim, absorb this fact. he lied to you just to get his physical needs met, thats the utter truth.
| Quote: | | I just want him to able to be himself |
this will NOT happen. absorb and accept this now.
| Quote: | | How do I protect my daughter. |
thats the main problem now, that you married the snake, your boyfriend. what can be done now? i dont know. if you people are living in USA, maybe your daughter wont be a strict muslim. people are so different.
i think your BF is a very dangerous person. you must withdraw from him but very gradually. what to do with your daugher, thats the main problem. have you tried counseling to see what advice you get?
congratulations again for destroying the life of your daughter. She wont have a unified family. later on, she'll suffer in the sense of either not having the ability to choose a good mate (this happens if the father doesnt develop a close bond with the daughter), or she'll not see enough of you which will also be bad. She did nothing to deserve this.
Adnan |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cosmicreason,
There are different options, each with many suboptions, that need to be explored:
1. Get divorced.
2. Stay togeher, but accept his Islamic beliefs.
3. Stay together by enlightening him.
To make a difficult decision, you need qualified advice(I am not a psychologist, but I'll offer my suggestions/questions). Part of making a quality decision, is by understanding the facts.
1. Let's assume you can convince him that Islam is a lie. Would you still choose to be married or are there other issues? If you'd choose to divorce him anyway, would you still choose to attempt to enlighten him?
2. If he becomes an apostate, would he be in physical danger, as the punishment for apostasy is death.
3. If you attempt to create doubts in him, will his advisers encourage violence, insulation, divorce or other means to silence your criticism?
4. If you divorce him, who will get custody of your daughter? How would you take care of her?
5. If you don't divorce him, what would the ramifications be for your daughter being brought up by him?
Best regards,
Rand |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=21516&dgn=4 writes:
| Quote: | Question :
If the muslim man dies, to whom does the custody of the children goto if the wife is a christian, and the only muslim relatives of the man are far away?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Custody of the children should not be given to a kaafir. This is the view of Maalik, al-Shaafa’i and Ahmad. (al-Mughni, 11/412). If the Muslim relatives of the man are far away, then the children should be sent to them. If that is not possible then the children should be given to a Muslim family to take care of them and have custody of them.
The conditions of custody include the following:
Being Muslim, for custody cannot be given to a kaafir.
Being of sound mind, for custody cannot be given to one who is insane or mentally deficient.
Being an adult, for custody cannot be given to a minor.
Being able to bring them up properly, for custody cannot be given to one who will be negligent.
Ibn al-Qayyim said:
No custody can be given to a kaafir over a Muslim for two reasons:
1 – The one who is given custody of a child will be keen to bring him up in his religion and to teach him about it, and after he grows up it will be difficult for him to change. He may change him from the natural disposition of man with which Allaah has created His slaves, and after that he may never come back to it, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (natural disposition of man), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” There is no guarantee that the one who has custody will not turn a Muslim child into a Jew or Christian.
If it is said that the hadeeth only applies to the parents, we should say that the hadeeth refers to the usual situation, which is that a child usually grows up with his parents, but if one or both are lost, then the child’s guardian among his relatives takes their place.
2 – Allaah has severed the ties of closeness between Muslims and kaafirs, and has made the Muslims the close friends of one another, and the kaafirs the close friends of one another. Custody is one of the strongest reasons for creating close bonds, which Allaah has severed between the two groups.
Zaad al-Ma’aad, 5/459.
And Allaah knows best. |
see also http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=8189&dgn=4
I am under the impression, (I could be wrong) that he should divorce you since you are a kaafir or hindu, and to take your daughter under custody, in order to follow Allah.
Best wishes,
Rand |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for all the replies..
We have known each other for almost 3 years. After One year, I got pregnant.
We never got married..he moved in with me..and we have been living together common-law.
We live in Canada. We are both from the West Indies...He has been living in this country for about 14 years..I practically grew up here..
-If I do manage to convince him somehow that Islam is a lie..Yes I would still want to have a life with him..There are no other issues that I am concerned about, just the religion.
-If he does leave Islam. There will be no violence..but his family would try to convince him otherwise..and will basically disown him. he tries to make his family as happy as possible.
-If we separate..I will get custody of my daughter, but he will have visitation rights from what I know...unless he becomes a danger to her..like creating violence etc.. I can support myself and my daughter..that's not an issue at all..
-If we don't separate..the ramifications..is what I am afraid of..and If we do separate..whenever he does get visitation of her..he would try to brainwash her as much as he could..This is what I worry about.
We had a discussion yesterday on this topic of his beliefs and I started to read the quran and questioned him so far as to what I read..about the fear of god..and the violence..he tried to convince me what a peaceful religion it is..He claims the quran is perfect..the perfect way of life..the most peaceful...but nothing he says made any sense..actually I found it funny..However, I didn't laugh out loud.
His proof of islam is the Quran.
He tells me a lot of things about Islam..that makes me wonder..
How did islam spread..and what is the proof??
He says..Mo, went peacefully preaching the truths to others..but they didn't believe him..and started a war with him and his followers..and mo got a revelation from god to fight..and defend himself..so mo was only defending himself. I don't believe this to be true. So I questioned him about all the people that got killed, the women raped, temples destroyed..etc..he says the others were the ones who started the fight..mo had to defend himself..and he didn't rape any woman..and he had to destroy temples etc..because they were worshipping the wrong way..
Whenever he needs answers..he goes to the mosque and asks a so called educated muslim brother..He is afraid to go to anyone else besides a fellow muslim who follows the religion. He is afraid to read a book that denounces islam..
I have started to prepare myself already since my baby was born..4 months ago..I have legal advice, and counseling..
Why do you think he fears reading or hearing anything that denounces islam..He doesn't get angry...he gets really arfaid..I don't understand.?? i asked him..and he says it's because he doesn't want other types of thoughts to enter his mind...I told him that it doesn't make sense..if he has stongh faith in what he really believes in..that was yesterday..i still didn't get an answer..he says he doesn't want to talk about it..So I left it alone.
I told him about this website and the other one..secular islam. he says they are all people who are lost....but he doesn't want to take a look at the websites.. |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The very highest leader is barely known by men.
Then comes the leader they know and love.
Then the leader they fear.
Then the leader they despise
The leader who does not trust enough will not be trusted.
When actions are performed without unnecessary speech
The people say, "We did it ourselves."
...................................................................Lao Tsu |
Dear Cosmicreason,
Unless there is a need for urgency, I'd advocate waiting perhaps 3 weeks. This will give you time to:
1. Become an expert on Islam.
2. Become an expert in teaching methods, learning various approaches, including direct and indirect methods.
3. Better understand your bf's faith. What is the foundation of his faith? What defenses does he use? When does he tune out? How does he react when his gfaith is undermined? What types of arguments does he accept, and what type does he automatically dismiss?
4. It will give you a chance to study cults, and get counseling.
5. It will give you a chance to document your gameplan, and have time to reflect on a plan.
In the meantime the plan would be to maintain a close relationship, be understanding and try to learn more about his views, without being critical.
I ues my concern is that he has strong views, and if you threaten them, he might not be convinced, and to save himself, he might redouble his commitment to islam. Never underestimate an opponent. By researching the plan, and being methodical about it, it might help your chances of success.
Best regards,
Rand |
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adnan
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 2847
Location: Ex-Muslim from Pakistan, now in USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:51 am Post subject: |
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cosmic | Quote: | | -If we separate..I will get custody of my daughter, but he will have visitation rights from what I know...unless he becomes a danger to her..like creating violence etc.. I can support myself and my daughter..that's not an issue at all.. |
thats the only solution. yes he's obviously afraid of seeing anti-islamic stuff. its like beleiving one's child is nice and innocent and they want to keep believing it that way and they're afraid of any evidence that may prove their child to be actually bank robbers.
ok i guess i've said all i want to. |
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Ali Sina
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cosmicreation,
Tell your boyfriend that you will convert to Islam if he manages to refute our claim against Islam and prove it to you that Islam is true. Invite him to join this forum and debate with the apostates of Islam.
It is not necessary for him to recant Islam if he is proven wrong. He can continue believing in Islam even after it is proven to be false.
If he refuses this then you can tell him you are convinced Islam is false and he knows is too. That is why he is afraid of finding out the truth which would shatter his dream. Then you can tell him he has no right to indoctrinate your child in this false cult that he is unable to defend and he should not talk to you about Islam ever again.
_________________
Doubt everything, find your own light! |
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rand
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 1752
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ali wrote:
| Quote: | | Tell your boyfriend that you will convert to Islam if he manages to refute our claim against Islam and prove it to you that Islam is true. Invite him to join this forum and debate with the apostates of Islam. |
If he mentions that he is not a scholar, ask him to invite a muslim scholar.
Best regards,
Rand |
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Piggy
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 835
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cosmicreation,
I suggest you, the man you love and your child, move away from direct contact and the influence of your man's family and other Muslims, especially Ummahs, clerics, etc.
It seems these are the people who are pulling him back each time you get him started in the right direction, and he falls into the pit of uncertainty and this divides his loyalty leaving him confused and irrational.
After he has had a chance to get his head together unhindered, then it may be OK to later renew contact with his family.
I wish you well in resolving this problem you have.
Regards.
Piggy. |
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Unknown 281
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for all the replies..It has been a great help.
He is a sunni muslim.. I am not sure if that spelling is correct. Anyhow..i did question him about the hadith..he says the one he has is accurate..and contains the truth..meaning that everything written in the version he has is all peacefull and perfect.
I asked him about the other versions..he says the other versions are not correct..Its written by a different sect of muslims..and does not contain the truth.
We had a debate today..and still he cannot prove anything to me...he says that he doesn't want to have any such debates again.
I challenged and encouraged him to follow the teachings of the quran as it is....since he believes in it so much.. I even told him..If he wants to go away to one of those countries, saudi arabia..etc..to study and live the life to the fullest..I will support him..and give him all the finanical support he needs as well..he says he cannot because now he has his daughter and his family..etc..he will miss them. I told him to follow the quran..and do as it says if he really believes in it..first of all..he is not even supposed to live with a non-believer like me..without getting married etc..I basically left everything up to him..I told him..there is no way that I will ever convert..not to get his hopes up for that..and there is no way i would allow my child to follow this so called religion. So he knew from before he moved in where he stands..he had choices..he chose to move in..
I will take the time to learn more about islam..is every koran the same..or all they all different.??
I took the koran today and read together some of it..one part is talks about freedom to choose..then the next is says to fight non-believers..etc..I asked him to explain to me so i will understand. He says I am interpreting it incorrectly..but its so simple..he explained something tottally different from what the passages actually reads...
One passage says something along the lines of: fight them all non believers etc..if they attack..and fear not them, but allah alone etc..so then I asked him if you believe this to be truth..then you should be fighting with me right now..until persecution is no more..because I am attacking you..and you are your relgion..etc..he thinks for a while and says..i chose not to fight...He tries hard to defend this relgion..he says islam is guidence and he needs guidence..
I have emailed him some articles i got from this site..so he can feel free to read them if he wants or not...
since he could not prove to me yet so far..the peace in this religion..then I must do what I have to do...to protect my child and make her happy and make myself happy. |
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Piggy
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 835
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Dear Cosmicreason,
Any Muslim male who believes the Quran, and/or Ahadith and follows Mohammed's example can easily resort to violence toward his woman and feel that it justified as an "honor" thing and in accordance with Allah's rules of conduct.
I truly believe that you are endangering your and your child's well-being by having confrontation with this " Sunni Muslim" man, especially whilst allowing him to co-habitate with you both.
You have mentioned his bouts of depression and I fear for you and your child's well being.
I think that it would be wise to completely isolate you and your child from him in a location unknown to him until he has undergone psychological examination and sorted out his dilemma to a standard that satisfies you and recognized family health and welfare referees and agencies.
This guy could get seriously depressed, as he is already committing serious sins by Islamic standards.
Please don't allow your love for him blind you to the common-sense decisions that you must make.
This problem will not go away by itself, and at this point your man is not in a state of mind to make rational decisions.
Go and lose yourselves (you and child) for a year or two, if you and this man both truly love each other all will be fine; have a break from him for a while.
I will say no more, and hope that I have helped you to consider your options with a clear mind.
Best wishes.
Piggy. |
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Unknown 290
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 8:21 am Post subject: |
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i totally agree with the last comment by Piggy. I am a hindu as well. Men who are fallowers of islam are very violent against their women, in islam there is no womans rights.
i strongly suggest you take a look at this website, its will help make your mind up. once you are in islam, the way out is very hard.
http://www.secularislam.org/testimonies/add.htm
this website has helped my friend from converting, she was pressured into converting by her boyfriend, and when she said "no", he told her he never wants to see her again. the site has help many others.
according to islam, men are sent to heavan if they marry and successfull convert a non-muslim into a muslim. if they don't then they are sent to hell. this is why many guys are into islam. the religion written by a man, for men.
never put yourself or your child in danger for love.
all the best
M. A. C. |
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Ampbreia
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 476
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Greetings CosmicReason!
and please beware your bf! He will feel obligated by his faith to take your daughter away from you if you are unable to convince him of Islam's falseness and DO convince him that you won't convert. A muslim male may be hypocritical about everything else in his life, but when it comes to making sure their children are raised Muslim and kept free of the "taint" of kafirs, they get serious and will resort to lies and trickery if need be to accomplish this. He is probably feeling quite desperate about this right now. Maybe he really does love you - anything is possible - but his "Islamic obligation" to his daughter will take precedence. Be wise, and take precautions. For one thing: NEVER EVER leave your daughter alone with him. A female's lot in Islam is pure Hell, especially since he is most likely to return with her to his Islamic country of origin in order to strengthen his position. Most Muslim father thefts from kafir mothers follow this pattern.
Okay, I don't mean to scare of dishearten you, but this, at least, is a reality you must face and prepare for.
The best case scenario is, of course, to convince him of Islam's falseness. Being an ex-Muslim myself, I can tell you that one important thing that convinced me of Islam's falseness - or at least that it wasn't for me - was its very negative aspects: Allah advocates the slaying of non-Muslims, denies equal legal rights to women (Adnan is right that your bf won't care about this), allows slavery (still practiced in many Islamic nations), claims that He gives some humans guidance while deliberately misleading others so that they will burn in Hell (sounds just like a satanic figure here; what are human beings, but logs for his fire?), the very concept of Hell - burning and torture infinitely for a finite sin even if the sin is nothing more than being unconvinced of the validity of Koran and its messenger (I've heard some Muslims say that even such a person as Mother Theresa would burn), that the murder and enslavement of kafirs will be "rewarded" in Paradise with eternally renewed virgin companions and all the pleasures that Muslims are denied on earth... Is this what can ethically be called a Good SuperBeing if it really exists?
Anyway, I have a page on my website specifically devoted to effects of Islam on women: http://www.ampbreia.com/ampbreia_003.htm. You might want to read through these and chose some to bring up with your bf as reasons that, as a sane woman, you cannot even consider Islam as a life choice for either you or your daughter. Ask him what about Islam he would like if he were a woman. I'd be VERY interested in his response to that one! Then ask him what it does for him personally and why he can follow some of it but not other parts. Wouldn't it be more honest for him if he used his own brain to make his own ethical decisions via the natural laws of cause and effect and harmonious conduct in general. Ask him to prove the validity of what he believes. If he cannot prove it, ask him how he justifies believing it.
As for me, my story and book link - "Lost in Foreign Passions" - is at http://www.ampbreia.com/ampbreia_005.htm
_________________
It takes a heavy set of horns to support a good halo! |
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MarkT
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1152
Location: On the globe that gave me birth-the cool green hills of Earth
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I need to read your book, Ampbreia.
_________________
"—to find one's happiness in truth, to oppose illusion, to value integrity above God, and character above salvation." |
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soy yo
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 296
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Amp, I need to read it too, whenever I get some spending money.....
Cosmic, go and read Ampbreia's story here:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/ampbreia.htm
She is speaking from experience. Also, read my story here:
http://www.geocities.com/happy_kafir/apostasy
I feel for you, I really do. I wish I could say that your BF will see the light and leave Islam and you will live happily ever after, or that you two can just get along as is, but the odds are so small.
I'll bet you that he has already been advised to take your daughter away. Whatever you do, don't leave her alone with him, and DON'T leave Canada with him.
In the meantime, the one question I asked my ex that appeared to have at least a small effect on him was when I asked him if Allah love us (here on Earth). He couldn't answer.
Whatever your decision, we're here to lend support, advice, a listening ear, whatever you need.
_________________
"The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother." |
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