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Simple Muslim
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 28
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: Ali Sina's Challenge Accepted |
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Introductory Note –
My purpose here is to accept the challenge of Ali Sina and Ali Sina alone. I have been told to stay away from this hate site and it was made known to me that this site does nothing but bash Muslims when they make posts. I have gone through many threads and articles, and I agree with that statement.
Nevertheless, I shall make my maiden post and it is directed to none other than Ali Sina.
To the other posters, please keep away.
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I refer to your challenge here: http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
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I accused Muhammad of being:
a rapist
a pedophile (had sex with a child)
an assassin
a mass murderer
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a looter
a mentally deranged (was paranoid, heard voices, hallucinated of seeing jinns, Satan and angels, used to think he had sex with his wives when he did not, suffered from depression and had suicidal tendencies).
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I am not interested in your US$50 000, nor do I believe you will take this site down, even if you are defeated. There are many posts and threads pointed out to me by Muslims where you evaded and even edited Muslims’ posts when the debates do not go in your favour. But that is not my point here. My point is to take you on the above points one by one.
Let us start with the first point. You accuse he was a rapist. Please remember that the onus is on the accuser to substantiate his argument. Since you accuse, you build up your case. Here are some points you need to address.
1. What constitutes rape such that what Muhammad (saw) did was considered rape and unacceptable?
2. Muhammad (saw) was accused by his arch enemies as mad, misled by the devil and/or possessed. All these accusations were recorded and all these accusations were countered and recorded too. So if Muhammad was seen as a rapist, can you show from your records where these arch-enemies accused him of such?
3. If you cannot show #2, are you not just concocting and or/constructing a case today, and not relying on records of history books?
Thank you and may ALLAH (swt) guide you to the truth of Islam. |
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Ali Sina
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4607
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| There are many posts and threads pointed out to me by Muslims where you evaded and even edited Muslims’ posts when the debates do not go in your favour. |
Well this is just another lie made up by Muslims. Lying and deceiving is part of the Islamic way of being. Do you think if I ever edit the messages of Muslims they will remain silent? Here we have a forum where anyone can post and his message appears instantly. I have had debates with hundreds of Muslims and none has ever accused me of editing his message. Yamin Zakaria was the only person who complained I do not publish his entire message and respond to it paragraph by paragraph. That was a silly excuse and anyone could see that, nonetheless I published his message in its entirely first and then responded to it just to rob him form excuses.
As for debating with me and only me, that is not necessary at all. You can debate with anyone here. I am not the Mullah of this group and many of the friends here know Islam better than me.
Also I can’t debate with everyone. It is simply impossible.
As for your question, rape is the crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts. When Muhammad says you can have intercourse with your captives and right hand possessions that is rape because a captive woman is not free to consent. This you can find in the Quran and hadith
Apart from the fact that no record from the enemies of Muhammad has survived, the fact is that the Arabs in those days had very low standards of morality and possibly they were not aware that what they were doing was rape and immoral. But this was an evil practice of the barbaric pagans. The question is why Muhammad followed those primitive traditions and did not set new standards. Did he come to follow the evil deeds of his people or guide them?
At the end I invite anyone to join this forum and respond. I simply can't have 101 debates with every person. You are not saying anything groundbreaking and new. We have responded to all these questions a hundred times. So please carry on your debates with other members.
Furthermore I can't repeat the same thing to a billion people a billion times. If you want to know my charge of rape, read my previous debates. Here is one example.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/Shahzad3.htm
There you have my charge. Now go and refute that.
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own. |
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piggy
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: Godwana
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| As for your question, rape is the crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts. When Muhammad says you can have intercourse with your captives and right hand possessions that is rape because a captive woman is not free to consent. This you can find in the Quran and hadith |
Some of the evidence........................
sahih al-Bukari
كتاب التوحيد (The Book of Tawheed (Monotheism))
No. 6933 - Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."
كتاب النكاح (The Book of Marriage)
No. 4867 - Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."
كتاب العتق (The Book of Manumission of Slaves)
No. 2380 - Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
[33.52] It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your right hand possesses and Allah is Watchful over all things.
[33.50] O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17115
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Simple Muslim: Introductory Note – . I havehate site and it was made known to me that this site does nothing but bash Muslims when they make posts. I have gone through many threads and articles, and I agree with that statement. My purpose here is to accept the challenge of Ali Sina and Ali Sina alone. I have been told to stay away from this hate site and it was made known to me that this site does nothing but bash Muslims when they make posts. I have gone through many threads and articles, and I agree with that statement. |
1). dear Simple Muslim click read this thread also started by Enya
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=147916&highlight=#147916
you should read that also as you said you read many.
2). There is a word called "Azl " that has been aired by our Rassolpuri from land of pure, I wonder about the meaning and importance of the word "Azl" in Islam.
3) as far as your satement
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| this site does nothing but bash Muslims when they make posts |
is concerned, It is a open site, have the freedom to post any thing as long as it is not personal insults., Bashing Islam and Bashing Mr. Mohammad is different from Bashing individual for e.g., you, a simple Muslim.. and I don't think many of us have time to bash Individuals.
please continue to read and and correct the forum..and let your friends and well wishers know about the forum..
with best regards
yeezevee |
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Simple Muslim
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Ali Sina, you wrote
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There are many posts and threads pointed out to me by Muslims where you evaded and even edited Muslims’ posts when the debates do not go in your favour.
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Well this is just another lie made up by Muslims.
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I have copies of “before” and “after” posts, which were emailed to me. I have also been given links to your site where you did indeed change texts of Muslims to suit your agenda. But like I said, I did not come here to talk about your lying ways. So you need not defend yourself on that.
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As for debating with me and only me, that is not necessary at all. You can debate with anyone here. I am not the Mullah of this group and many of the friends here know Islam better than me.
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But that is not what I came here for! I came here to respond to your call. I respond to your challenge. If I wanted to debate with anyone, I could have found anyone. I need not come here to this hate site. There are many sincere debaters out there who would like to discuss about Islam! Why should I come to a hate site?
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Also I can’t debate with everyone. It is simply impossible.
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Then why the open challenge? Did you put it up as a publicity stunt so that you can get maximum number of hits, so that you can justify the revenue you get from your advertisers?
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As for your question, rape is the crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts.
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Be careful of your definition, Sina. What if a husband forces sex on his wife? Would that be a crime?
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When Muhammad says you can have intercourse with your captives and right hand possessions that is rape because a captive woman is not free to consent. This you can find in the Quran and hadith
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Two points here. Firstly, on consent. Many societies do not endorse non-consent from wife as basis for rape. So it has to be more than just “non-consent” to prove rape.
Secondly, sex with war captives was a legal practice during that period at that time. It was a practice among the Jews, way back to even before Moses’ time. How can a legal and accepted practice be considered “crime”?
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Apart from the fact that no record from the enemies of Muhammad has survived….
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Presumptuous. But that is your tactic, as I have been warned, so what is new?
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..the fact is that the Arabs in those days had very low standards of morality and possibly they were not aware that what they were doing was rape and immoral.
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You look up at yourself too highly. Are you saying that modern day civilians have higher morals? You come from a society that endorses extra and premarital sex. Sex between same sex. Bestiality. Sodomy. Even incest, because in your society, that is between two consenting adults. What is so moral today, that you can claim that a past generation is immoral, such that they cannot identify rape?
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At the end I invite anyone to join this forum and respond. I simply can't have 101 debates with every person.
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I am not asking for 101 debates. I am responding to your call. If you feel you cannot handle the heat, you should not have started it. Don’t you know that an open challenge will get open responses? So why are you copping out now?
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You are not saying anything groundbreaking and new.
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Neither have you. Many sites claim the same lies about the good and holy Prophet (saw). Only yours put up an open challenge, only for the main challenger (you), to turn tail when a Muslim responds. Like in this case.
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We have responded to all these questions a hundred times. So please carry on your debates with other members.
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As expected. I was told you would cop out and leave it to “other members”.
So it is confirmed. I am wasting my time here as what other Muslims have told me.
I repeat. I came here to respond to YOUR CALL. I did not come here to defend the words of other Muslims.
If you cannot even answer me, which is YOUR CALL, then it says much about this site – and your intended purpose of this site.
You just want a publicity stunt to create enough revenue, because you are too lazy to go to work, is that not it?
May ALLAH (swt) guide you along the straight path.
To piggy and yeezevee,
I came here because Ali Sina puts up a challenge and an offer. He offered to down this site (not that I believe he would, as you could see he is avoiding me) and give anyone US$50k, if he is proven wrong.
Let me put it straight to you two. If you want me to address you, then you have to come up with an offer to make it worth my while to debate with you. Otherwise, your appearance here only looks like you have lost faith in Ali Sina, and you are now controlling the damage, because he has copped out.
May ALLAH (swt), your creator and mine, guide you along the straight path.
Last edited by Simple Muslim on Mon May 02, 2005 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Phedippedes
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 8092
Location: Not on FFI anymore
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Be careful of your definition, Sina. What if a husband forces sex on his wife? Would that be a crime? |
It would most certainly be rape. I find it worrisome that so many Muslims (your not the first) consider marital rape not to be really rape. This tells us a lot of how you view your women and marriage: women are like disposable tools that you can use whenever you feel like it. It only becomes problematic to you when such an act occurs and your not the purpetrator. You have no concern about the victim and her feelings but about the 'purity' of your wife, daughter.
Rape is rape in any case in which the victim is not able to give or not asked for consent (such as having sex a captive, forcing sex under the thread of violence, using drugs that incapacitate the victim, having sex with a young child etc.)
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| Two points here. Firstly, on consent. Many societies do not endorse non-consent from wife as basis for rape. So it has to be more than just “non-consent” to prove rape. |
Rape is rape. Period. Some societies don't consider having sex with a child as peadophelia, some societies don't consider sawing off the head of a tied up captive or shooting a 10 year old in the back as murder, some societies don't consider it wrong to keep slaves either.
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| Secondly, sex with war captives was a legal practice during that period at that time. It was a practice among the Jews, way back to even before Moses’ time. How can a legal and accepted practice be considered “crime”? |
It was legal for the Nazis to steal from the Jews, yet it still is theft. It was legal for the Arabs and the Europeans of ages past to keep slave, yet it is still slavery. It is legal to chew Qat in Yemen, yet it is still drug use. It is legal in Norway to eat whale, yet it still is a practive that harms the species and endangers it.
The fact that some religions or cultures are so morally depraved that they have legalized marial rape, the rape of young girls within marriage or the rape of captive women does NOT change the fact that rape is still rape.
Last edited by Phedippedes on Mon May 02, 2005 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sir Galahad
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1938
Location: Avalon
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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When Muhammad says you can have intercourse with your captives and right hand possessions that is rape because a captive woman is not free to consent. This you can find in the Quran and hadith
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Two points here. Firstly, on consent. Many societies do not endorse non-consent from wife as basis for rape. So it has to be more than just “non-consent” to prove rape. |
It is exactly non-consent that makes it rape. Women do not give up their Human Rights when they marry. You cannot rape and beat up your wife for the same reason you are not allowed to beat and rape a stranger in the streets.
I can give you a very clear definition of rape:
Forcing another person by means of violence, threat, sedation or any other means to undergo an act or acts which constitute the sexual penetration of this person's body.
Clarification:
- The person in question did not give consent
- Sexual penetration can be the penetration of the vagina, anus or mouth by means of a penis. It can consist of forcibly inserting fingers, other body parts or objects into the vagina or anus. Forcing someone to perform oral sex is also considered rape.
- According to this definition both men and women can be raped.
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| Secondly, sex with war captives was a legal practice during that period at that time. It was a practice among the Jews, way back to even before Moses’ time. How can a legal and accepted practice be considered “crime”? |
Two wrongs do not make a right. The only reason it was 'legal' during Muhammad reign was that he had made it legal. A warlord who allows his troops to rape cative women is nothing new. Other conquering armies captured and raped women before and after Muhammad's lifetime, but most of their leaders did not claim God had given them permission. Yes, before Islam there were plenty of Jewish, Persian, Roman, Greek and men from other ethnicities who raped women. It was wrong then, it was wrong in Muhammad's days and it is wrong now.
How would you like to be raped? Have some man capture you, strip you and hold you down while he has his way with you. How about being enslaved and suffer this humiation on a daily basis? If you would not want this to happen to you, why do you think it is OK for Muslim warriors to capture women and treat them in this manner? Do you think women would suffer less than you would? No, they would suffer more because they could become pregnant with the child of the monster who did this to them and you cannot, assuming you are male.
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| You look up at yourself too highly. Are you saying that modern day civilians have higher morals? You come from a society that endorses extra and premarital sex. |
Western societies allow sex outside marriage; it is not advertised. Moreover, two people who are of age and both consent to sex do not harm anyone. A man who forces a woman to have sex does harm someone.
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| Sex between same sex. |
What do you have against gay people? What do you have against consenting adults? Any argument besides "Because Muhammad said Allah said it is wrong"?
You seem to have very inversed ethics: You approve of soldiers abducting, enslaving and raping women, but you think that two people who love each other and decide to make love are bad.
Is illegal in plenty of places in the Western world. Many Western countries prohibit unnecessary cruelty against animals. Plenty of Western countries consider outlawing bestiality specifically.
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| Even incest, because in your society, that is between two consenting adults. |
In my culture marrying your cousin is considered incest. Many people feel this should be illegal. Marriages between first cousins are condoned if no one in the couple's family has done this in several generations. Families in which cousin marriages are frequent are considered degenerate and pervers by the general population.
This is considered normal in the Muslim world, because Muhammad supposedly married his cousin Zainab. You are not in a position to throw stones at my culture. Incest is rape or sexual abuse in almost all cases because most normal people would never consent to have sex with their (grand)parent, (grand)child, sibling, half sibling, uncle or aunt.
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| What is so moral today, that you can claim that a past generation is immoral, such that they cannot identify rape? |
You think we are unable to recognise force? If someone punched you in the face and took your wallet, would it take a lot of intellectual effort on your behalf to conclude you were robbed? Violence is not that hard to recognise.
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| Neither have you. Many sites claim the same lies about the good and holy Prophet (saw). Only yours put up an open challenge, only for the main challenger (you), to turn tail when a Muslim responds. Like in this case. |
Really? Care to refute the Hadith and the Quran which clearly allow slavery and men having sex with women slaves?
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| I came here because Ali Sina puts up a challenge and an offer. He offered to down this site (not that I believe he would, as you could see he is avoiding me) and give anyone US$50k, if he is proven wrong. |
Ali challenged anyone to prove him wrong. This can be done by debating him, but it can also be done by posting a refutation. Ali never promised he would debate everyone who asked him to. You have yet to post an essay in which you prove Muhammad did not engage in rape.
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| If you want me to address you, then you have to come up with an offer to make it worth my while to debate with you. |
Worth your while? How about you make it worth our while? So far you have not posted anything have not read a lot times before.
"Yes, but the Jews did it too"
"Muhammad had said Allah told him it was OK"
"If a woman is married to you, she does not have the right to say No"
"Yes, but it is a different culture. You cannot judge another culture, but I can condemn Western cultures"
Reads familiar? These arguments are often used by Muslim rape apologists.
It is deja vu all over again for me and deja vu just isn't what it used to be.
How about you write an well researched refutation containing no logical fallacies in response to one of Ali Sina's accusations. This would be truly interesting. Or you can pick one accusation and debate one or more other posters without using logical fallacies.
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm
http://www.adamsmith.org/logicalfallacies/
http://www.cyberessays.com/Politics/106.htm
Please refrain from using any arguments derived from cultural or moral relativism. It is an inherently illogocal postion and it goes against Islam. It is therefore both irrational and hypocrit to use any such arguments.
Please give us something interesting to read by writing an interesting coherent refutation.
Kind regards,
_________________
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because it is the quality which guarantees all others. _Winston Churchill
Winter is Coming. - Motto of House Stark
Last edited by Sir Galahad on Mon May 02, 2005 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alkaliel
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 2879
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Simple Muslim,
I cannot understand why you are not willing to debate with other forumers. Are you afraid?
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| Be careful of your definition, Sina. What if a husband forces sex on his wife? Would that be a crime? |
Yes, a husband may be charged with raping his wife. I suggest you look into this matter.
http://www.wellesley.edu/WCW/mrape.html
Marital rape is in fact even more traumatizing to women than rapes commited by strangers (they are very scarce nowadays. However, many Muslims in the West do rape women in this way) because women are raped by someone they know and probably have been living with for many years.
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| sex with war captives was a legal practice during that period at that time. |
So? The Quran is supposed to be the Holy book for all times, complete guidance that is relevant all the time. Now you are, basically, saying that the Quran is not immutable, thus contradicting your own God and prophet. Do not forget that they have perfected the religion for you.
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| Sex between same sex. Bestiality. Sodomy. |
You are very ignorant of your own religion and society.
There are many gays in the Muslim world who are executed by scores.
http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saudi_arabia/saudinews14.htm
Some gay sites:
www.glas.org
www.gayarab.org/home.htm
Well, have you ever heard of Khomeini? It was a much respected cleric and that's what he said:
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| "If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned." |
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| "A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister. " |
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| "A man can have sex with animals such as sheep¹s, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine." |
Check out his book "Tahrirolvasyleh"
And, speaking of your prophet, do you think that molesting a 9-year-old girl is a sign of high morals? |
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piggy
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: Godwana
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Simple Muslim wrote: |
| What if a husband forces sex on his wife? Would that be a crime? |
YES! |
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piggy
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: Godwana
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like Hunter has a new nick.  |
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Sir Galahad
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1938
Location: Avalon
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| piggy wrote: |
| Seems like Hunter has a new nick. |
What gave him away? His writing style or his IP?
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Simple Muslim does have one point. Perhaps it would be nice if the one-on-one debating section were reinstated.
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Perhaps it would be sensible to back up the claims of Ali sina on the main site by means of a list of quotes from the Quran, Hadith and the Sirat. For instance, if one clicked "looter" a new window would be opened with qotes that proved Muhammad incited and participated in looting. I would like to see pretentious Muslims try to refute their own scriptures.
_________________
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because it is the quality which guarantees all others. _Winston Churchill
Winter is Coming. - Motto of House Stark
Last edited by Sir Galahad on Mon May 02, 2005 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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scaredguy
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 1239
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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1) debating with muslims - it is a waste of time and resources. Because...
2) a muslim's logic and reason are subordinated to justifying and glorifying kuran, Mohammad, hadith and islam. That's the end of it.
3) Kuran and islam order the killing of ex-muslims. Hence no muslim is free to be honest about islam.
4) At the end the muslim uses bad words and threats and declares his own victory and insists on enjoying fame among his fellow muslims as the gloriously victorious defeater of kafirs.
5) Islam = submission = mental slavery. That is the undeniable reality. An ideology with such a name does not bring forth intelligent honest freedom-loving un-biased self-respecting men and women but just... mental slaves.
And so on I can write a few pages. But this should be sufficient for the simple minded muslim. |
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Sir Galahad
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1938
Location: Avalon
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Scaredguy,
Plenty of people leave Islam. There are plenty of ex-Muslims posting on this forum. Perhaps we cannot convince the challengers, but do not forget lurkers who are perhaps misled PC adherents and persons considering conversion to Islam. Answering Islam refutes Muslim apologists for the sake of a larger audience not because they think Muslim apologists will be easy to convert.
Kind regards,
_________________
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because it is the quality which guarantees all others. _Winston Churchill
Winter is Coming. - Motto of House Stark
Last edited by Sir Galahad on Mon May 02, 2005 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Simple Muslim
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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My fellow posters,
This is to put things in perspective. I came here in response to Ali Sina’s call. Now if Ali says he has no time (which is tantamount to backing out from his own challenge), then this only confirms what my Muslim brethren have said about this site, before I made my maiden post. The truth is that the purpose of this site is not to discuss Islam, but to hate Muslims.
However, if any of you wish me to address your points, then you have to make me an offer (the way Ali Sina did, although we all know he won’t keep to his promise), to entice me enough to make it worth my while here.
I am a Muslim and I submit to Allah (swt). What you believe and say about Muhammad (saw) does not affect me, and what I post or do not post here, will have no effect on you. Why I am willing to spend my time here is because Ali has thrown an open challenge, which I find attractive enough to accept.
So unless you posters can make me an offer of a similar magnitude (never mind that Ali fails to keep his), there really is no incentive to engage any discussion with any of you.
I would also like to point out the fact that now that Ali has said he does not wish to continue, your continued presence and posts only indicate that you are embarrassed that Ali Sina has indeed backed out, hence, you now try to repair the damage by taking over his place.
My suggestion for you posters to redeem yourselves from this embarrassing scenario is-
1. Get Ali Sina to make good his open challenge and face me.
OR
2. Anyone of you can make me an offer of equal magnitude to Ali Sina’s offer, and if that offer is incentive enough, I will inshallah, address your concerns.
May ALLAH (swt), your creator and mine, guide you along the straight path. |
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Phedippedes
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 8092
Location: Not on FFI anymore
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Simple Muslim wrote: |
My fellow posters,
This is to put things in perspective. I came here in response to Ali Sina’s call. Now if Ali says he has no time (which is tantamount to backing out from his own challenge), then this only confirms what my Muslim brethren have said about this site, before I made my maiden post. The truth is that the purpose of this site is not to discuss Islam, but to hate Muslims.
However, if any of you wish me to address your points, then you have to make me an offer (the way Ali Sina did, although we all know he won’t keep to his promise), to entice me enough to make it worth my while here.
I am a Muslim and I submit to Allah (swt). What you believe and say about Muhammad (saw) does not affect me, and what I post or do not post here, will have no effect on you. Why I am willing to spend my time here is because Ali has thrown an open challenge, which I find attractive enough to accept.
So unless you posters can make me an offer of a similar magnitude (never mind that Ali fails to keep his), there really is no incentive to engage any discussion with any of you.
I would also like to point out the fact that now that Ali has said he does not wish to continue, your continued presence and posts only indicate that you are embarrassed that Ali Sina has indeed backed out, hence, you now try to repair the damage by taking over his place.
My suggestion for you posters to redeem yourselves from this embarrassing scenario is-
1. Get Ali Sina to make good his open challenge and face me.
OR
2. Anyone of you can make me an offer of equal magnitude to Ali Sina’s offer, and if that offer is incentive enough, I will inshallah, address your concerns.
May ALLAH (swt), your creator and mine, guide you along the straight path. |
Okay, I'll debate you...I'll do Shahada and become a Muslim if you convince me that the Mahomet that brought us the Quran and the Mahomet we read about in the Hadith was a good man and his message is from God.
That's a good offer eh? You can save me from eternal hellfire. That should be worth more than anything. |
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