my journey from depression

Kantipala · Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 299

I used to suffer from severe depression, often thinking myself to be some how busted. Like everyone around me seemed to have a place; they seemed to have a direction, they seemed to have opportunities, but yet I was stuck in a rut. Another analogy was like being invited to a party that I never could fit in, but not being allowed to leave.
For along time I tried desperately at anything I could do to help me find my way, but all I met with was one failure after another. This of course made every thing worse for me, and reinforced my belief that I was busted. To make matters worse was when ever I tried to share my feelings others were quick to have a joke about it, and tell me what I was doing wrong. So not only was I feeling lost and depressed, but also scared to death of a judgment al world. I even went to a phycologist who after about a year told me I was a wonderfully healthy person. That I was a joy to chat with, very loving and so forth, but this diagnosis did not make me feel wonderfully happy. It took me along time to find out what was causing these feelings, and then to start healing from it. I was really starting to think there was no point in goodness at all, it was all just one persons way of controlling another.
I went on a meditation retreat at a Theravada Buddhist monastery in the United States.
( this is not meant as an advertisement for Buddhism just the point were I found the cause of my mental anguish)
The topic of the ratreat was “Metta” or the art of radiating loving friendliness to all beings with out exception. These was a huge challenge to me, as I had a deep hatred for myself, and hated the rest of the world for being so cruel, abusive, and judgmental. The only being I could feel love for was maybe the monastery cat. On the board was a sign up sheet for personal interviews with the monastics. Buddhist monks dedicate there lives to the practice of renunciation, mental cultivation, and emancipating the heart. So I figured I would have an interview and share some of my problems with loving friendliness.
I signed up for an interview with a thai monk from “Wat pa nana chat” a forest monastery in thailand quite famous for its serine meditation monks. I figured that if anyone could offer me insight it would be him, so he was who I chose. I entered the room were he was, and closed the door, all the while trying to find were in the room he was. I found him sitting on the floor, and so I sat down in front of him. He must have had a very tranquil heart because I felt totally safe with him. Like when you have a comfortable silence with a good friend. At first I wanted just to tell him what I thought he wanted to hear that “I was good, and pressing along. That I would defiantly take these things back to my ordinary life” I felt his peace sitting in front of him that I worked the courage to ask him what I really wanted to know.
I told him that I absolutly hated myself for being born with a disability, never being able to fit in, no matter how hard I did what society said I was suppose to I was always the looser, There was always something I should have done or could have done. I told him that I was stuck in a busted existence with absolutely no way out what so ever. After I told him that I hated myself I let go with all the reasons why, figuring what the heck. After my talk which must have blown him away with such tremendous self hatred I was shocked that his mood was totally unchanged. There was as much a comfort being with him as before. This was positive for me because he had not been in the usa more than a year or two I was afraid along with other things his reaction, and I have been judged so many times before I just did not want to be rejected again.
He gently said that “I have found almost all westerners seem to have these same feelings” This was shocking to me as I for along time have thought myself unique and alone in my feelings. He then asked me if I had a christian upbringing which I said that I had. He then said that in his meetings with westerners they all seemed to believe that they were sinfull unless some authority told them they were good. Also that they judged them selves and others based on there opinions of what God would think. Thus they would formulate these lofty ideas of what it means to be good, but when they could not live up to those pie in sky ideas they became depressed. Even people who were not religious but were raised with that concept looked out side to validate what they thought of them selves.
Hearing this explanation got me to thinking about may own thought patterns of the past and so forth. With everything I did or tried to do I did at first create a lofty image of what I should be, and then beat myself up to obtain it, and then when I failed it was all the more disastrous. Thus leading me to create even more ideas to grab on to kind of a habitual thought pattern that kept feeding itself.
The monk told me that I was already good at heart, and did not need to do anything, but just express what I naturally was. Experiencing this monks unshakable peace during the interview also gave me some confidence that he had some experience with what he was telling me, and not just quoting some text book he picked up. I was not interested in book reports, I could read for myself anything.
He told me a story of being on a plane and hearing the pilot calling for a doctor. He continued saying that not just one doctor hesitantly came forward but 6 or 7 until the pilate had to make an announcement that they had to many doctors. He said that some of these doctors were from different nationalities, but yet they care about that nor about the nationality of the patient. They did not even meet the patient before in there life, they just wanted to help naturally no cleric needed to force them. They never asked how the patient was going to pay, what plan they had, they just worked as hard as they could to save the persons life. Then he asked me “would a sinful human naturally be moved to help? Hearing that story would not I be naturally motivated to help with the same determination in that crisis?
He also mentioned that when the terrorist ran planes into the world trade center many on duty fire men rushed to the scene, but thousands more off duty fire fighters showed up of there own free will. Rushing frantically to aid and assist those in need. When the two towers collapsed and several thousand fire fighters died, of those that died many were off duty and risked there lives when they were not obligated. He then asked me if those people showed signs of original sin, inherent guilt, or some how lost favor in some Gods eye. Once again I found it in my self, even while that was happening, thinking “what can I do” “what can I do” compassion poured forth with out my conscience effort. I remember about that time going to give blood at the red cross, and seeing lines out the door of people from all walks of life with one thought of good will. So cultivating loving friendliness was some thing every human posses, and I found it with in myself. He illustrated other stores, like a kind parent trying to cheer up a hurt child. Until he saw that I was beginning to see the point he wanted me to see. This point made my heart concentrated, and calm. Which was at the very least a rest from the years of pain I heaped on myself, but this gave me an insight to work from. The insight that I was already a naturally loving person, and because of that was clearly not busted.
He then continued by asking me “do you steal from others?”
I of course replied “never” He then continued by asking me to explain why? I then said that if I did that I would hurt the person I stole from, and then just feel guilty after wards. He jumped on what I said by saying that “you refrain from stealing not because God will hate you but because you love other people, and even love yourself to keep from feeling guilty” He said I should have another reason to feel happy about myself for giving the world the loving gift of freedom in there possessions. He then continued on with the same point regarding other moral restraints abusive language, sexual mis conduct, killing living things, telling false hoods, and so forth. I never thought about them really as loving gifts that I give to the world, and that by giving those gifts I was a noble person. I always thought you did these things to go to heaven, or to make God happy so to give you rewards. Doing these things to fullfil some external image of what I was suppose to be.
Now I was feeling realy good not only was I naturally loving, but gave these loving gifts to the world. Not just loving in the past, but loving in the future as well. This really empowered me to let go of what other people thought, and even allot of what I was raised to think. I began to operate from the inside out, instead of always having things dictated to me from the out side in.
I was still not perfect as years of abuse and self abuse do not vanish with one pep talk, but I had a new base from which to work from. He could see the change, and was happy that I was not as over loaded by my negative mental habits, and could begin to see a healthier alternative was possible.

yeezevee · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 17109

dear Kantipala, It is a long confession about depression.,Let me also confess one thing here.. I am of the opinion, if the person is mentally sound, I mean no chemical imbalance.. such as lack of B12 Vit .. and or disfunctional Thyroid or doesn't show any Thyroid symptoms.. etc., capable of thinking independently, Then it is most probable the person has no responsibilty and has lots of free time in hand, doesn't know what to do with that... that will certainly send him/her in to depression.,

Any way good hear you in FFI forum., Tell us bit about your religious background that may or may not responsible for your depression..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Sir Galahad · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 1938 Location: Avalon

Dear Kantipala,

Thank you for sharing your story. Welcome to the forum.

I am sorry to learn you suffer from depression. You story strongly suggests that the cause is cognitive rather than physical, but are you certain? Were you medically examined in order to find out if there are physical causes?

Kantipala · Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 299

Your points have merit, there could be many factors leading to my depression. Thats why I did not want the reading audience to think I was advocating Buddhism. The monk just had a certain emotional maturity and could help me see through my thick veil of self hate. I am sure that many people have the same emotional maturity. I just happened to meet him. So I want to say again that I am not suggesting Buddhism is the great cure all.
The monk did have a vantage point coming from a totally different society and way of thinking. When he made the link between how westerners are razed to believe they have original sin, guilt for disobeying another's concepts of God, and so forth was an abusive way to look at myself and life. My whole line of thinking was based on "what does God want me to do?" "Geeze I am not living up to other peoples standards there must be something wrong with me" Some of this abusive out look on life can also be seen in history.
Once he pointed this out I began to recognize, and observe my own thoughts with a new perception. After awhile of recognizing my negative thought patterns, anylizing what the perception was formulating them, I could then let go and replace them with healthier thought patterns. Reflecting on examples of humanities natural tenancies to help when disaster strikes and they temporarily forget there own. Over time this allowed me to rebuild a stable, positive, mental out look from which to live my life.
This relation to how I was conditioned to think religiously and the coresponding outlook of life is why I posted this story. For your review and consideration.

munira · Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 894

Kantipala · Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 299

I have since the initial interview with the monk found my way out of depression. My life became such a joy that I wrote him and thanked him for his insight on how my religious/ culturale upbringing was abusive, and how he gave me the help I needed.
He refused to take any credit, saying that I put forth the effort of directing my mind out. All he did was illuminate the bad mental habits I had myself trapped in.
I read the depression stories from those who left islam, and felt they related to the abusive thinking that christianity gor me into. If I did not end my depression then there is not much sence writing and offering hope to others that they can do the same.

piggy · Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: Godwana

Hi Kantipala,

Here is a nice guidance....

THE DESIDERATA
Desiderata = the sense of something missing, the thing desired,
- Oxford Concise Dictionary

Go placidly among the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself.

Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.

Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the Universe; no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

yeezevee · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 17109

Kantipala · Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 299

My testomony on journeying from depression was very long. So I did not want to add to much on the process of doing it. I wish to give you how I did it, because I beleive it to be more beautiful than the fact that I did it.
The Buddhist monk gave me the subject of meditation on cultivating loving friendly feelings. This was as I said more hard than you would ever know for me to do. The meditation came in two parts:
The first was a forgiveness meditation. As you are sitting comfortably, back straight, start focussing on all the people you have harmed. Bringing them to mind from grade school, high school, on the job, in the car, from were ever, and when ever you harmed them. For what ever reason you harmed them. In your mind one by one ask them to forgive you for hurting them. "May you please forgive me for hurting you." "May you please forgive me for............." Continue asking forgiveness until you have reached every body to you satisfaction.
The focuss to the people who have harmed you. All the people through life, from childhood to were you are now. What ever scars are there, what ever is truely awful in your past. One by one like before give yourself permittion to forgive them. In your mind say "I forgive you for hurting me" "I forgive you for .........." "It is in the past and I give myself permittion to forgive it all."
Saying all these phrases slowly, and letting the meaning seep into the heart. Continue giving your self permittion to forgive untill you have covered every thing thoroughly.
The third and last part of the meditation after forgiving those people you hurt, and those that hurt you is to forgive yourself. In the same maner as before bringing all the things that you hate about yourself. All the things that hold you back from what you want. This is really were my obsticle to love was; toward myself. Just let go and list everyone, but as you list every one, give yourself permittion to forgive your self. "I forgive myself for being..............." "I give myself permittion to forgive being ....................." Once you have mentally given your self permittion to forgive everything then the mind is in a good space for cultivating loving friendliness. I will have to post that tommorow cause now it is very late.
Forgivness is a spiritual quality that is not owned by any religion. So to do this meditation does not require any certain religious devotion. Also "what ever is cultivated and frequently practiced becomes the inclination of the mind" These words from the Buddha are not mystic either but merely discribes a habit. If forgiving your self is cultivated and frequently practiced it will become the inclination of your mind. As I have said in other writings critisising spiritual practices, if you do it exspecting some thing, than the results will elude you. I have made this mistake, and did not figure out it was a mistake for 3 years. For three years my meditation went no were!! Fortunatly now I have gotten past that obsticle and can share the knowledge with you. Adopting a forgivness practice is simply a good habit to develop, and is a big part of how I got out of dipressive thinking.

Mahanama · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 55

The Buddha is not God or one of gods. He asked his diciples to practice his teaching with their wisdom, not just believing in him. The link below is Kalama Sutta, an important and useful discourse to modern people.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an03-065.html

Mahanama · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 55

armour_piercing_bullets · Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 203

this humble kafir has been saying repeatedly : the root of suffering is
generally,mental,most of the time.

judeo christian islamic thinking/ideology makes one feel guilt,with
story of sin/original sin etc.

i hv many christians associates who hv left christianity after
experiencing meditation,positive thinking etc.

they r now human beings no longer christians.

they also accept the truth that jesus was a great man,
but not the only son of god,bcoz we r all children of god
or nature.nature does not dicriminate this way.

jesus did not die for us or our sins.

our sins will not be washed away by only prayer to jesus.

we must work hard toward being better human beings and more
importand ensure our thoughts and deeds r pure,for us and
humanity to flourish.

ie : our deeds and karma is more important that only prayer
to god/jesus etc...

buddha did not teach anything new,or oriental or indian.

it is only a fact that he was born in india.and bcoz of india' liberal
nature he was not killed for apostasy or whatever.

he just showed a path to truth.

v r not sinners,nor going to burn in hell,nor hv
eternal life after death in heaven/jannat etc....

it is all a hoax.

the truth is known to all,who seek truth :

v r born to love and be loved...fear etc r put into our minds
by terrorist sorry priests,mullas etc.

if we r just humans and love and respect all,including
all living beings,then world problems will be solved immediately.

so,we must work toward this goal.

being a rationalist or truthseeker only helps.

so,let ffi spred the truth,we must support the truth and ffi,
to save world from world war 3 which will be nuke war and
wipe out mankind.

apb

Orenda · Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 159

Dear Kantipala, thankyou for sharing your story. I appreciate Buddhist thought , since it is a philosophy which doesn't claim to be the sole originator of the ideals it contains, and doesn't stamp out free thought.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that Christianity is fundamentally a depressing outlook in life, even though Jesus (it's key role model) appears to be somewhat of an enlightened man. Nevertheless, the whole concept surrounding him is very irrational and masochistic...
God created humans and forbade them access to the tree of KNOWLEDGE, so when they, in their naive innocence, succumbed to the craving for KNOWLEDGE...God kicked them out of his paradise , dooming their offspring to suffer being cut off from him until he could send a part of himself (jesus) to earth and be tortured and killed as a means to redeem his creations, and could symbolically wash all of humanity in his blood. Yuck.
All of the Abrahamic faiths are depressing, Islam included. Even though Islam is missing the ridiculous story of God trying to make concession around his own punishment of mankind, by sacrificing himself or a part of himself, Islam still views people as worthy or not based on their belief, the same as Christianity does. Qur'an specifically says that those who do not believe in God are not loved by him, are his sworn enemies, and that Allah's enemies must be the Muslims' enemies too. This is why I refer to them all as the three-headed monster. (Judaism/Christianity/Islam)
Growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, (probably the most rigid variety of western religion) I always felt sad that some of the best people in my life could not be loved by God , if they didn't believe in him or if they fell outside of his approval by not meeting all of his arbitrary commandments. And yet I was told by believers that those destroyed by God were in fact loved, but could not be accepted or God could not suffer them to live in his heaven or his paradise unless they acknowleged his existence first and obeyed him in everything. God was a jealous, abusive boyfriend. I was told by the religious leaders that God did not approve of what the European Christians did to our ancestors, (even one of their religious magazines devoted a whole issue to this) but at the same time I remember reading in the Bible where God would destroy entire villages, allow his men to ravage their women and steal their children, because they were idol worshippers.
I remember as a child always comparing God to my parents and wondering secretly if my mother was also hiding such a cruelty in her heart about me.
I remember thinking that every good thing in life is futile if all of our good qualities don't count in front of God unless they are crowned by a worship of him and that is a very depressing outlook. When love from the Creator is so conditionally based then it distorts our perception of ourselves and others.
I also know that deep depression is most often a biological disorder but at the same time, there are many outside things which can exacerbate this problem. I know people who try to cope with their depression by going deeper into Islam or Christianity. It makes them more fragile because 1.) they limit their experience in life and capacity to grow, learn, heal, by limiting their human association based on religious doctrine and 2.) they live in a constant state of fear.

A grandfather was teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me', he said to the boy. 'It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith'. 'The same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too.' The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, ' Which wolf will win?'. The grandfather simply replied, 'The one you feed.'

It is always very nice to hear from someone who has broken free from that fear and guilt.

Regards,
Orenda

skonk4 · Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 938

So, FFI has slowly becoming an anti-Christian site too now ?

If this is the case, then I do not longer wish to support it. I thought this was a site against the evil messages of Islam. Some people here are trying really hard to convince themselves that Christianity = Islam. Then good luck to you all. Maybe the more often you say it, the more often you might even believe in it.

I have not read one writing by a Christian insulting other religions except those which prescribes killing kaffirs.

If this humanisms of yours contain insults or bias opinion against those whose message is truly peaceful, then you can stick your version of humanism where the sun does not shine.

Sorry A Sina, no more dollars for you from this side of the Atlantic.

scaredguy · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 1239

Don't skonk out. Every religion has its defects and needs criticism. The critic is the real genuine friend. Islam is evil, but christianity is not basically evil. Yet christianity also needs criticism. Kantipala's criticism is not of the polemic or jealous or hateful type. If you see what sbwus writes about christianity then you will know the difference. Fact is that christianity has some commonalities with islam and does cause some people to become mentally ill.